non-repairable clusters and unneeded partitions

[VolleyballMom]

I have an older PC with 2 partitions, a 16 G C drive containing the OS, XP,
and a 60 G D drive. The manufacturer shipped it that way, and the C drive has
been running out of space. I haven’t been able to remove the partition
because there are non-repairable broken clusters on the C drive and the hard
drive is now having trouble booting, I suspect because of those clusters.
I’ve been making volume shadow back ups of the C drive, D drive and system
state onto an external drive using ntbackup in XP Home. I’ve been reading
posts here so I know that a new HDD will come with software to transfer the
contents of my old HD to the new one. Here are my questions:

1. Will the partitions also transfer to the new HDD using that software? If
yes, is there anything I can do to stop that?

2.I contacted the PC manufacturer and was told that I can use the Recovery
CDs to install the computer to its original state on a new HDD. That would
give me the option of installing without partitions. Could I then use the
back up on the external drive to install the rest of my programs and files?
Would they require the partitions? (I backed up all files except: task
scheduler, temporary files and system volume information: VSS service
alternate, VSS service DB, VSS default provider, system restore)

3.I’d like to try doing a reformat on the old HDD, wiping out the
partitions, or maybe install the OS on the existing D drive just to see if I
can get a little more use out of it. There are no broken clusters on the D
drive and money is really tight now, everyone in our household has been laid
off work. Is there a way to install the OS on the existing D drive?

4.The only program I’m worried about losing is MS Office Ultimate 2007, my
daughter purchased it as a download so we don’t have the CD. It’s already on
2 of our other computers so if I lose the program in all of this will they
let me download it again to the new HDD? (We have all of the purchase
information) Could I just save the program onto the external HDD so I don’t
have to worry about losing it? And, if yes, how?

I know this is a lot. Thank you in advance for your help.

[Pegasus [MVP]]

"VolleyballMom" > wrote in message
...
>I have an older PC with 2 partitions, a 16 G C drive containing the OS, XP,
> and a 60 G D drive. The manufacturer shipped it that way, and the C drive
> has
> been running out of space. I haven't been able to remove the partition
> because there are non-repairable broken clusters on the C drive and the
> hard
> drive is now having trouble booting, I suspect because of those clusters.
> I've been making volume shadow back ups of the C drive, D drive and system
> state onto an external drive using ntbackup in XP Home. I've been reading
> posts here so I know that a new HDD will come with software to transfer
> the
> contents of my old HD to the new one. Here are my questions:
>
> 1. Will the partitions also transfer to the new HDD using that software?
> If
> yes, is there anything I can do to stop that?

Cloning programs transfer information on a partition-by-partition basis. The
better ones let you choose the size of the target partition.


> 2.I contacted the PC manufacturer and was told that I can use the Recovery
> CDs to install the computer to its original state on a new HDD. That would
> give me the option of installing without partitions.

A disk without partitions is useless. You need at least one.


> Could I then use the
> back up on the external drive to install the rest of my programs and
> files?
> Would they require the partitions? (I backed up all files except: task
> scheduler, temporary files and system volume information: VSS service
> alternate, VSS service DB, VSS default provider, system restore)

You can restore your data files but not your program files. You will need to
re-install all your programs, then configure them to suit your environment.


> 3.I'd like to try doing a reformat on the old HDD, wiping out the
> partitions, or maybe install the OS on the existing D drive just to see if
> I
> can get a little more use out of it. There are no broken clusters on the D
> drive and money is really tight now, everyone in our household has been
> laid
> off work. Is there a way to install the OS on the existing D drive?

Seeing that your current 16 GByte disk is flawed and also quite small, you
should make the 60 GByte disk the primary master disk and install/clone
Windows XP on to it. When finished you can format the 16 GByte disk and use
it as a spare data disk. It will have to be set up as a slave disk or as a
disk connected to the secondary IDE controller.


> 4.The only program I'm worried about losing is MS Office Ultimate 2007, my
> daughter purchased it as a download so we don't have the CD. It's already
> on
> 2 of our other computers so if I lose the program in all of this will they
> let me download it again to the new HDD? (We have all of the purchase
> information) Could I just save the program onto the external HDD so I don't
> have to worry about losing it? And, if yes, how?

I am not aware of any legal version of MS Office that is downloadable but
then I'm no expert. The people in the many MS Office newsgroups would be
able to tell you. It would be a good strategy to save ALL downloaded
programs so that you don't run into this type of predicament.


> I know this is a lot. Thank you in advance for your help.
>

[Alister]

Pegasus [MVP] wrote:
> "VolleyballMom" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I have an older PC with 2 partitions, a 16 G C drive containing the OS, XP,
>> and a 60 G D drive. The manufacturer shipped it that way, and the C drive
>> has
>> been running out of space. I haven't been able to remove the partition

<snip>

> Seeing that your current 16 GByte disk is flawed and also quite small, you
> should make the 60 GByte disk the primary master disk and install/clone
> Windows XP on to it. When finished you can format the 16 GByte disk and use
> it as a spare data disk. It will have to be set up as a slave disk or as a
> disk connected to the secondary IDE controller.

I think the OP meant these are two partitions on a single disk so this
is not a viable option.

Alister

[VolleyballMom]

Thank you for replying. You said:
"It would be a good strategy to save ALL downloaded
> programs so that you don't run into this type of predicament."

In order to save the downloaded Office program to an external HD do I just
copy the Office folder that is in C:\Windows\Program Files. If not, could you
please tell me how to do save this program to an external HD?

It is a legal download, Microsoft had a promotion for University students
last year called 'The Ultimate Steal" and they could either download the
program or for an extra $10 get the CD in the mail (which I wish she had
done).

Thank you again.

"Pegasus [MVP]" wrote:

>
> "VolleyballMom" > wrote in message
> ...
> >I have an older PC with 2 partitions, a 16 G C drive containing the OS, XP,
> > and a 60 G D drive. The manufacturer shipped it that way, and the C drive
> > has
> > been running out of space. I haven't been able to remove the partition
> > because there are non-repairable broken clusters on the C drive and the
> > hard
> > drive is now having trouble booting, I suspect because of those clusters.
> > I've been making volume shadow back ups of the C drive, D drive and system
> > state onto an external drive using ntbackup in XP Home. I've been reading
> > posts here so I know that a new HDD will come with software to transfer
> > the
> > contents of my old HD to the new one. Here are my questions:
> >
> > 1. Will the partitions also transfer to the new HDD using that software?
> > If
> > yes, is there anything I can do to stop that?
>
> Cloning programs transfer information on a partition-by-partition basis. The
> better ones let you choose the size of the target partition.
>
>
> > 2.I contacted the PC manufacturer and was told that I can use the Recovery
> > CDs to install the computer to its original state on a new HDD. That would
> > give me the option of installing without partitions.
>
> A disk without partitions is useless. You need at least one.
>
>
> > Could I then use the
> > back up on the external drive to install the rest of my programs and
> > files?
> > Would they require the partitions? (I backed up all files except: task
> > scheduler, temporary files and system volume information: VSS service
> > alternate, VSS service DB, VSS default provider, system restore)
>
> You can restore your data files but not your program files. You will need to
> re-install all your programs, then configure them to suit your environment.
>
>
> > 3.I'd like to try doing a reformat on the old HDD, wiping out the
> > partitions, or maybe install the OS on the existing D drive just to see if
> > I
> > can get a little more use out of it. There are no broken clusters on the D
> > drive and money is really tight now, everyone in our household has been
> > laid
> > off work. Is there a way to install the OS on the existing D drive?
>
> Seeing that your current 16 GByte disk is flawed and also quite small, you
> should make the 60 GByte disk the primary master disk and install/clone
> Windows XP on to it. When finished you can format the 16 GByte disk and use
> it as a spare data disk. It will have to be set up as a slave disk or as a
> disk connected to the secondary IDE controller.
>
>
> > 4.The only program I'm worried about losing is MS Office Ultimate 2007, my
> > daughter purchased it as a download so we don't have the CD. It's already
> > on
> > 2 of our other computers so if I lose the program in all of this will they
> > let me download it again to the new HDD? (We have all of the purchase
> > information) Could I just save the program onto the external HDD so I don't
> > have to worry about losing it? And, if yes, how?
>
> I am not aware of any legal version of MS Office that is downloadable but
> then I'm no expert. The people in the many MS Office newsgroups would be
> able to tell you. It would be a good strategy to save ALL downloaded
> programs so that you don't run into this type of predicament.
>
>
> > I know this is a lot. Thank you in advance for your help.
> >
>
>
>

[VolleyballMom]

Alister-

You're right about it being 2 partitions on one disk. So I can't install the
OS onto the larger partition?


"Alister" wrote:

> Pegasus [MVP] wrote:
> > "VolleyballMom" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> I have an older PC with 2 partitions, a 16 G C drive containing the OS, XP,
> >> and a 60 G D drive. The manufacturer shipped it that way, and the C drive
> >> has
> >> been running out of space. I haven't been able to remove the partition
>
> <snip>
>
> > Seeing that your current 16 GByte disk is flawed and also quite small, you
> > should make the 60 GByte disk the primary master disk and install/clone
> > Windows XP on to it. When finished you can format the 16 GByte disk and use
> > it as a spare data disk. It will have to be set up as a slave disk or as a
> > disk connected to the secondary IDE controller.
>
> I think the OP meant these are two partitions on a single disk so this
> is not a viable option.
>
> Alister
>

[Pegasus [MVP]]

I would do this:
- Open the computer to find out the brand of the disk.
- Download and run the free diagnostic tool from the manufacturer's site.
- If it can repair the disk, fine.
- If it can't, do this:
Make a note of the approximate location of the bad clusters.
Connect the disk as a slave disk to some other PC.
Use diskmgmt.msc to create two primary partitions: One to include
the bad clusters, the other to include the remainder of the disk.
While still in diskmgmt.msc, delete the partition with the bad clusters.
Leave this unallocated space alone from now on.
Return the disk to its own PC.
- Install Windows XP.
- Install your applications.
- Restore your data from your backup.

IMHO a replacement disk would be a much better option, for these reasons:
a) They are cheap
b) They are much larger than your current dis
c) They would not have any bad clusters, with the risk of others going bad
soon.


"VolleyballMom" > wrote in message
...
> Alister-
>
> You're right about it being 2 partitions on one disk. So I can't install
> the
> OS onto the larger partition?
>
>
> "Alister" wrote:
>
>> Pegasus [MVP] wrote:
>> > "VolleyballMom" > wrote in
>> > message
>> > ...
>> >> I have an older PC with 2 partitions, a 16 G C drive containing the
>> >> OS, XP,
>> >> and a 60 G D drive. The manufacturer shipped it that way, and the C
>> >> drive
>> >> has
>> >> been running out of space. I haven't been able to remove the partition
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> > Seeing that your current 16 GByte disk is flawed and also quite small,
>> > you
>> > should make the 60 GByte disk the primary master disk and install/clone
>> > Windows XP on to it. When finished you can format the 16 GByte disk and
>> > use
>> > it as a spare data disk. It will have to be set up as a slave disk or
>> > as a
>> > disk connected to the secondary IDE controller.
>>
>> I think the OP meant these are two partitions on a single disk so this
>> is not a viable option.
>>
>> Alister
>>

[Malke[_2_]]

VolleyballMom wrote:

> Thank you for replying. You said:
> "It would be a good strategy to save ALL downloaded
>> programs so that you don't run into this type of predicament."
>
> In order to save the downloaded Office program to an external HD do I just
> copy the Office folder that is in C:\Windows\Program Files. If not, could
> you please tell me how to do save this program to an external HD?
>
> It is a legal download, Microsoft had a promotion for University students
> last year called 'The Ultimate Steal" and they could either download the
> program or for an extra $10 get the CD in the mail (which I wish she had
> done).

Programs need to be installed using the installation media, either a CD,
DVD, or the installable executable. When you download a program from the
Internet, it is wise to save that downloaded installer so you can reinstall
the program at some future time. Simply copying program folders will not
work.

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ

[Paul]

Pegasus [MVP] wrote:
> I would do this:
> - Open the computer to find out the brand of the disk.
> - Download and run the free diagnostic tool from the manufacturer's site.
> - If it can repair the disk, fine.
> - If it can't, do this:
> Make a note of the approximate location of the bad clusters.
> Connect the disk as a slave disk to some other PC.
> Use diskmgmt.msc to create two primary partitions: One to include
> the bad clusters, the other to include the remainder of the disk.
> While still in diskmgmt.msc, delete the partition with the bad clusters.
> Leave this unallocated space alone from now on.
> Return the disk to its own PC.
> - Install Windows XP.
> - Install your applications.
> - Restore your data from your backup.
>
> IMHO a replacement disk would be a much better option, for these reasons:
> a) They are cheap
> b) They are much larger than your current dis
> c) They would not have any bad clusters, with the risk of others going bad
> soon.
>

Some examples of cheap disks.

You can get an 80GB IDE drive (ribbon cable interface), for $37.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148236

If the computer has a SATA (thin cable) interface for the drive,
those are also cheap. 80GB for $35.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148231

Paul

[VolleyballMom]

It turns out that I did save the downloaded installer, I just didn't
recognize it (there was no name, just a number) the first couple of times I
checked my folder of downloaded installers.

The computer crashed on Friday night. I reinstalled the OS onto the original
HDD using the recovery CDs, and used the opportunity to resize the C and D
partitions. Once the OS was on a larger C drive it was able to repair those
clusters. So everything looks really good and is working well. I was able to
restore everything and reinstall all of the programs, including Office. I'm
just going to keep everything backed up and see if the problems are fixed for
good.

Thank you everyone for your help.

"Malke" wrote:

> VolleyballMom wrote:
>
> > Thank you for replying. You said:
> > "It would be a good strategy to save ALL downloaded
> >> programs so that you don't run into this type of predicament."
> >
> > In order to save the downloaded Office program to an external HD do I just
> > copy the Office folder that is in C:\Windows\Program Files. If not, could
> > you please tell me how to do save this program to an external HD?
> >
> > It is a legal download, Microsoft had a promotion for University students
> > last year called 'The Ultimate Steal" and they could either download the
> > program or for an extra $10 get the CD in the mail (which I wish she had
> > done).
>
> Programs need to be installed using the installation media, either a CD,
> DVD, or the installable executable. When you download a program from the
> Internet, it is wise to save that downloaded installer so you can reinstall
> the program at some future time. Simply copying program folders will not
> work.
>
> Malke
> --
> MS-MVP
> Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
> http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ
>
>