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henny
October 23rd 09, 01:21 AM
I'll say up front that I'll have to be dragged kicking and screaming away
from XT. I do use VISTA and a back-up machine with little problem.

I have *not* used Windows 7.

After reading a few reviews I have to ask:

Why no windows mail?

Why are AERO PEEK and AERO SHAKE a good deal ?

Why does the easiest networking set up demand all computers on net be
running Win7?

Does Win7 allow one to add your computer to the LAN using Workgroup and
sharing ala VISTA,XP,Win98 ?

Are not these cluttered screens and a cluttered task bar just hopeless
confusion to new and less experienced users?

Most reviews appear to be written by people that want to stay friendly with
Microsoft.

The reason that VISTA up-dates so well is because Win7 is VISTA with some
changes and a bunch of marginally use full trinkets.

Mark me skeptical

Henny

R. C. White
October 23rd 09, 02:08 AM
Hi, Henny.

Maybe I can answer a couple of your questions.

> Why no windows mail?

Because people have complained for years about the "bloat" In Windows. By
removing some functions that are not part of the actual operating system, MS
made Windows 7 a bit slimmer than Vista. This also reduces the complaints
from vendors of competing products.

But, you can go to http://download.live.com and download - for free - all
the Windows Live Essentials. These include Windows Live Mail, Windows Live
Photo Gallery, Windows Live Messenger and a couple of others.

It's like if Ford was forbidden to include a radio in their cars because of
complaints from Bose and other radio makers. The Ford dealer could tell his
customer, "You are free to go to Best Buy or Wal*Mart or wherever you like
and buy the radio of your choice. Or, you can drive around to our service
department and we'll install our radio for free!" It doesn't make sense to
me, but it should quiet some of the complaints.

> Are not these cluttered screens and a cluttered task bar just hopeless
> confusion to new and less experienced users?

Not as much as you think. Most "new and less experienced users" will not
have to shake off the WinXP mindset that afflicts so many experienced users.
They will arrive at Win7 without all that old baggage.

But many WinXP users - mostly the ones who have so adamantly resisted
learning to use Vista - will also have trouble learning to use Win7 - or any
other new system.

But those who enjoy learning about new and better systems will be enjoying
Win7 in just a few days. ;<)

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8089.0726) in Win7 Ultimate x64

"henny" > wrote in message
...
> I'll say up front that I'll have to be dragged kicking and screaming away
> from XT. I do use VISTA and a back-up machine with little problem.
>
> I have *not* used Windows 7.
>
> After reading a few reviews I have to ask:
>
> Why no windows mail?
>
> Why are AERO PEEK and AERO SHAKE a good deal ?
>
> Why does the easiest networking set up demand all computers on net be
> running Win7?
>
> Does Win7 allow one to add your computer to the LAN using Workgroup and
> sharing ala VISTA,XP,Win98 ?
>
> Are not these cluttered screens and a cluttered task bar just hopeless
> confusion to new and less experienced users?
>
> Most reviews appear to be written by people that want to stay friendly
> with Microsoft.
>
> The reason that VISTA up-dates so well is because Win7 is VISTA with some
> changes and a bunch of marginally use full trinkets.
>
> Mark me skeptical
>
> Henny

Alex Clayton
October 23rd 09, 03:06 AM
"R. C. White" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, Henny.
>
> Maybe I can answer a couple of your questions.
>
>> Why no windows mail?
>
> Because people have complained for years about the "bloat" In Windows. By
> removing some functions that are not part of the actual operating system,
> MS made Windows 7 a bit slimmer than Vista. This also reduces the
> complaints from vendors of competing products.
>
> But, you can go to http://download.live.com and download - for free - all
> the Windows Live Essentials. These include Windows Live Mail, Windows
> Live Photo Gallery, Windows Live Messenger and a couple of others.
>

>

Does this mean there is no news reader built in? I have a new Dell that they
are sending a W-7 disk for. If you don't load Windows mail is there a way to
read Usenet with out having to use a different reader?

Speaking in silver
October 23rd 09, 04:14 AM
"Alex Clayton" > escribió
>
> Does this mean there is no news reader built in?

Exactly.

> I have a new Dell that they are sending a W-7 disk for. If you don't load
> Windows mail is there a way to read Usenet with out having to use a
> different reader?

No, but you can always use Google groups :-(

OldHobo
October 23rd 09, 04:40 AM
Speaking in silver wrote:
> "Alex Clayton" > escribió
>>
>> Does this mean there is no news reader built in?
>
> Exactly.
>
>> I have a new Dell that they are sending a W-7 disk for. If you don't
>> load Windows mail is there a way to read Usenet with out having to use
>> a different reader?
>
> No, but you can always use Google groups :-(

Ughhh!!

I use Thunderbird for both my email and usenet access. Works well, and
is free.

R. C. White
October 23rd 09, 04:49 AM
Hi, Alex.

> Does this mean there is no news reader built in?

Right. For the first time since Win95 included Outlook Express, Windows
does not include either an email program or a newsreader. It does include
Internet Explorer 8, though.

> If you don't load Windows mail

NOT Windows Mail! Windows LIVE Mail. The names are nearly identical and
the programs are similar, and both remind users of the familiar OE, but
there are some distinct differences.

OE will not run on Vista or Win7. WM will not run on WinXP or Win7
(although a few intrepid hackers say they've made it work). WLM runs on
WinXP, Vista and Win7.

Microsoft announced in 2006 that development on both OE and WM (before it
had even been released as a part of Vista!) had been halted and there will
be no more updates, except for security fixes, if necessary.

> is there a way to read Usenet with out having to use a different reader?

There have always been other newsreaders, and they are still out there.
Thunderbird and Forte Agent are a couple that are well known. Just ask Bing
or Google for "newsreaders" and you'll soon find a list of dozens, both free
and paid.

Mail programs also are abundant. Microsoft's Outlook is probably the
best-known, but it doesn't do newsgroups.

Personally, I've been using WLM for over two years now. While it has its
share of bugs and irritating design choices, it works about as well as OE
did for me.

As for Usenet, Microsoft is trying hard to push us all to web-based
"forums". They have not yet added any Win7 newsgroups to their public news
server (news://msnews.microsoft.com) - and there is speculation that maybe
they will not. That's why I am happy to see THIS Win7 newsgroup on
non-Microsoft Usenet.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8089.0726) in Win7 Ultimate x64

"Alex Clayton" > wrote in message
...
> "R. C. White" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi, Henny.
>>
>> Maybe I can answer a couple of your questions.
>>
>>> Why no windows mail?
>>
>> Because people have complained for years about the "bloat" In Windows.
>> By removing some functions that are not part of the actual operating
>> system, MS made Windows 7 a bit slimmer than Vista. This also reduces
>> the complaints from vendors of competing products.
>>
>> But, you can go to http://download.live.com and download - for free - all
>> the Windows Live Essentials. These include Windows Live Mail, Windows
>> Live Photo Gallery, Windows Live Messenger and a couple of others.
>>
>
>>
>
> Does this mean there is no news reader built in? I have a new Dell that
> they are sending a W-7 disk for. If you don't load Windows mail is there a
> way to read Usenet with out having to use a different reader?

Alex Clayton
October 23rd 09, 04:51 AM
"Speaking in silver" > wrote in message
...
> "Alex Clayton" > escribió
>>
>> Does this mean there is no news reader built in?
>
> Exactly.
>
>> I have a new Dell that they are sending a W-7 disk for. If you don't load
>> Windows mail is there a way to read Usenet with out having to use a
>> different reader?
>
> No, but you can always use Google groups :-(
>

I have used it when there was no other choice, but only then. If I can load
WM I will just do that. I don't use it for E-Mail, but it works fine as a
news reader. As long as I can just get in from MS that's fine with me.
--
Things get better with age. I'm approaching magnificent!!

nan2u
October 23rd 09, 02:56 PM
Firstly, I'm not a tech type so I can't answer any technical questions, but
I have been using W7 since beta, and have had the final release for about a
month ( my hubs gets partner release things) and I have been using WLM since
then. I use it for my newsgroups, as well as mail and am very happy with
it. I am frustrated with missing functions, ie: the ability to edit a
received email is gone, and I would like different filtering options in
newsgroups, but it works fine for 99% of my needs. Even the learning curve
is pretty small. All in all, this has been an easy transition, newbies
should have few problems, and oldtimers with a tiny bit of a sense of
adventure should be able to change over without too much tribulation.

This has been a very easy transition for me, other than the first days of
expecting my hubs to have all the answers to all my dumb questions!

"R. C. White" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, Alex.
>
>> Does this mean there is no news reader built in?
>
> Right. For the first time since Win95 included Outlook Express, Windows
> does not include either an email program or a newsreader. It does include
> Internet Explorer 8, though.
>
>> If you don't load Windows mail
>
> NOT Windows Mail! Windows LIVE Mail. The names are nearly identical and
> the programs are similar, and both remind users of the familiar OE, but
> there are some distinct differences.
>
> OE will not run on Vista or Win7. WM will not run on WinXP or Win7
> (although a few intrepid hackers say they've made it work). WLM runs on
> WinXP, Vista and Win7.
>
> Microsoft announced in 2006 that development on both OE and WM (before it
> had even been released as a part of Vista!) had been halted and there will
> be no more updates, except for security fixes, if necessary.
>
>> is there a way to read Usenet with out having to use a different reader?
>
> There have always been other newsreaders, and they are still out there.
> Thunderbird and Forte Agent are a couple that are well known. Just ask
> Bing or Google for "newsreaders" and you'll soon find a list of dozens,
> both free and paid.
>
> Mail programs also are abundant. Microsoft's Outlook is probably the
> best-known, but it doesn't do newsgroups.
>
> Personally, I've been using WLM for over two years now. While it has its
> share of bugs and irritating design choices, it works about as well as OE
> did for me.
>
> As for Usenet, Microsoft is trying hard to push us all to web-based
> "forums". They have not yet added any Win7 newsgroups to their public
> news server (news://msnews.microsoft.com) - and there is speculation that
> maybe they will not. That's why I am happy to see THIS Win7 newsgroup on
> non-Microsoft Usenet.
>
> RC
> --
> R. C. White, CPA
> San Marcos, TX
>
> Microsoft Windows MVP
> Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8089.0726) in Win7 Ultimate x64
>
> "Alex Clayton" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "R. C. White" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Hi, Henny.
>>>
>>> Maybe I can answer a couple of your questions.
>>>
>>>> Why no windows mail?
>>>
>>> Because people have complained for years about the "bloat" In Windows.
>>> By removing some functions that are not part of the actual operating
>>> system, MS made Windows 7 a bit slimmer than Vista. This also reduces
>>> the complaints from vendors of competing products.
>>>
>>> But, you can go to http://download.live.com and download - for free -
>>> all the Windows Live Essentials. These include Windows Live Mail,
>>> Windows Live Photo Gallery, Windows Live Messenger and a couple of
>>> others.
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>> Does this mean there is no news reader built in? I have a new Dell that
>> they are sending a W-7 disk for. If you don't load Windows mail is there
>> a way to read Usenet with out having to use a different reader?
>

Alex Clayton
October 24th 09, 03:06 AM
"nan2u" > wrote in message
...
> Firstly, I'm not a tech type so I can't answer any technical questions,
> but I have been using W7 since beta, and have had the final release for
> about a month ( my hubs gets partner release things) and I have been using
> WLM since then. I use it for my newsgroups, as well as mail and am very
> happy with it. I am frustrated with missing functions, ie: the ability
> to edit a received email is gone, and I would like different filtering
> options in newsgroups, but it works fine for 99% of my needs. Even the
> learning curve is pretty small. All in all, this has been an easy
> transition, newbies should have few problems, and oldtimers with a tiny
> bit of a sense of adventure should be able to change over without too much
> tribulation.
>

Sounds fine to me then. When I bought this Vista Machine I did have a little
trouble with the WLM for Usenet. Setting up the account was fine, but it
would not work. Then I found many were having the same problem. I used a
feed from Mozzarella (I think they called it) for a while with it, and it
was fine. Slight delay in sending but it worked fine till MS figured out
what was wrong. It has worked fine since, and I do not sue it for E-mail, so
I will just add it to the one laptop after the W-7 disc gets here.

--
Things get better with age. I'm approaching magnificent!!

Periproct
October 24th 09, 04:47 PM
Snipped

> Why does the easiest networking set up demand all computers on net be
> running Win7?
>
> Does Win7 allow one to add your computer to the LAN using Workgroup and
> sharing ala VISTA,XP,Win98 ?

Read a PC magazine review that said Homegroup network setup required all the
computers to be Windows 7. Surely that means you can only do it the easy way
if all the PC are running Windows 7 and you can still set up a network with
non Windows 7 machines the old fashioned way.

Speaking in silver
October 24th 09, 06:38 PM
"henny" > escribió
> I'll say up front that I'll have to be dragged kicking and screaming away
> from XT. I do use VISTA and a back-up machine with little problem.
>
> I have *not* used Windows 7.
> After reading a few reviews I have to ask:
>
> Why no windows mail?

Part of the global strategy against freedom in the internet. Usenet allows
to post and download anonymously. They don't like that. Instead, they want
you to use use WLM, so that they can track you down and always know who you
are. Next time they'll close our P2P ports or encrypyt discs so that they
can not be copied... hey, wait, they're already doing that!

> Why are AERO PEEK and AERO SHAKE a good deal ?

They are not.

> Why does the easiest networking set up demand all computers on net be
> running Win7?

Maybe Microsoft wants your money? What do you think?

> Does Win7 allow one to add your computer to the LAN using Workgroup and
> sharing ala VISTA,XP,Win98 ?
>
> Are not these cluttered screens and a cluttered task bar just hopeless
> confusion to new and less experienced users?

Yes they are. Easy to get rid of them though.

> Most reviews appear to be written by people that want to stay friendly
> with Microsoft.

XDDD
Surprised?

> The reason that VISTA up-dates so well is because Win7 is VISTA with some
> changes and a bunch of marginally use full trinkets.
> Mark me skeptical

I don't agree here. W7 gets your hardware drivers (my main point against XP)
much better than Vista (although Drivermax or Driver Genius must be used in
order to be fully updated). Copying files is quicker, the Explorer runs
smoother and memoy management in general seems better. Also, I haven't got a
blue screen yet...

All we have to do is to get rid of the annoying Windows Media Player (as
always, use VLC instead), the Aero features and some tricks at the
taskbar/startbar/desktop to make it look like the good old XP, but with the
power of the new W7. Programs like W7 Manager will be helpful to get rid of
the UAC (user account control) and many other stupid things. Now I am happy
with my dual boot Vista/W7 and I think I will delete Vista maybe after a
month. Give it a try.

Periproct
October 25th 09, 11:18 AM
"Periproct" > wrote in message
...
>
> Snipped
>
>> Why does the easiest networking set up demand all computers on net be
>> running Win7?
>>
>> Does Win7 allow one to add your computer to the LAN using Workgroup and
>> sharing ala VISTA,XP,Win98 ?
>
> Read a PC magazine review that said Homegroup network setup required all
> the computers to be Windows 7. Surely that means you can only do it the
> easy way if all the PC are running Windows 7 and you can still set up a
> network with non Windows 7 machines the old fashioned way.
>
There should have been a question mark at the end of the last sentence
above.
I was re-asking the question the OP (Henny) asked.

Microsoft upgrade advisor says my humble graphics card won't support Aero so
I'll have to decide whether to spend some money or live without it.
Plus I'll need to decide what to use for email and newsgroups.

Trev[_2_]
October 25th 09, 11:48 AM
Periproct wrote:
> Snipped
>
>> Why does the easiest networking set up demand all computers on net be
>> running Win7?
>>
>> Does Win7 allow one to add your computer to the LAN using Workgroup and
>> sharing ala VISTA,XP,Win98 ?
>
> Read a PC magazine review that said Homegroup network setup required all the
> computers to be Windows 7. Surely that means you can only do it the easy way
> if all the PC are running Windows 7 and you can still set up a network with
> non Windows 7 machines the old fashioned way.
>
>
>
Yes the workgroup setting

Andy[_12_]
October 27th 09, 12:08 AM
"R. C. White" > wrote in
:

> Hi, Henny.
>
> Maybe I can answer a couple of your questions.
>
>> Why no windows mail?
>
> Because people have complained for years about the "bloat" In Windows.
> By removing some functions that are not part of the actual operating
> system, MS made Windows 7 a bit slimmer than Vista. This also reduces
> the complaints from vendors of competing products.
>
> But, you can go to http://download.live.com and download - for free -
> all the Windows Live Essentials. These include Windows Live Mail,
> Windows Live Photo Gallery, Windows Live Messenger and a couple of
> others.
>
> It's like if Ford was forbidden to include a radio in their cars
> because of complaints from Bose and other radio makers. The Ford
> dealer could tell his customer, "You are free to go to Best Buy or
> Wal*Mart or wherever you like and buy the radio of your choice. Or,
> you can drive around to our service department and we'll install our
> radio for free!" It doesn't make sense to me, but it should quiet
> some of the complaints.
>
>> Are not these cluttered screens and a cluttered task bar just
>> hopeless confusion to new and less experienced users?
>
> Not as much as you think. Most "new and less experienced users" will
> not have to shake off the WinXP mindset that afflicts so many
> experienced users. They will arrive at Win7 without all that old
> baggage.
>
> But many WinXP users - mostly the ones who have so adamantly resisted
> learning to use Vista - will also have trouble learning to use Win7 -
> or any other new system.
>
> But those who enjoy learning about new and better systems will be
> enjoying Win7 in just a few days. ;<)
>
> RC


I just got a Win7 'puter (laptop) on Saturday. Therre's a ton of
learning curve for me.

The 64-bit OS has made me a bit nervous.

My 'puter is a Sony Vaio VGN-N270F.

Amazing how much stuff they can shoehorn into a 6.4 lb. box!

I'm so lost, a little less, as time passes watching the video help!

I DO miss outlook express. From such familiarity, this is a new step out
into the wild, so-to-speak.

Andy

R. C. White
October 27th 09, 04:45 AM
Hi, Andy.

See my inline bottom post...

"Andy" > wrote in message ...
> "R. C. White" > wrote in
> :
>
>> Hi, Henny.
>>
>> Maybe I can answer a couple of your questions.
>>
>>> Why no windows mail?
>>
>> Because people have complained for years about the "bloat" In Windows.
>> By removing some functions that are not part of the actual operating
>> system, MS made Windows 7 a bit slimmer than Vista. This also reduces
>> the complaints from vendors of competing products.
>>
>> But, you can go to http://download.live.com and download - for free -
>> all the Windows Live Essentials. These include Windows Live Mail,
>> Windows Live Photo Gallery, Windows Live Messenger and a couple of
>> others.
>>
>> It's like if Ford was forbidden to include a radio in their cars
>> because of complaints from Bose and other radio makers. The Ford
>> dealer could tell his customer, "You are free to go to Best Buy or
>> Wal*Mart or wherever you like and buy the radio of your choice. Or,
>> you can drive around to our service department and we'll install our
>> radio for free!" It doesn't make sense to me, but it should quiet
>> some of the complaints.
>>
>>> Are not these cluttered screens and a cluttered task bar just
>>> hopeless confusion to new and less experienced users?
>>
>> Not as much as you think. Most "new and less experienced users" will
>> not have to shake off the WinXP mindset that afflicts so many
>> experienced users. They will arrive at Win7 without all that old
>> baggage.
>>
>> But many WinXP users - mostly the ones who have so adamantly resisted
>> learning to use Vista - will also have trouble learning to use Win7 -
>> or any other new system.
>>
>> But those who enjoy learning about new and better systems will be
>> enjoying Win7 in just a few days. ;<)
>>
>> RC
>
>
> I just got a Win7 'puter (laptop) on Saturday. Therre's a ton of
> learning curve for me.

It should be fun - if you enjoy learning. ;<)

> The 64-bit OS has made me a bit nervous.

No need to be nervous. I've never had a Sony - or any laptop. But I'm sure
that Sony has already taken care of the hard parts. I doubt that you will
really notice the difference between 32-bit and 64-bit. Most of the
differences are under the hood; the user interfaces are identical.

One important difference is that 64-bit Windows has an additional program
files folder, which first appeared in WinXP x64, then in Vista x64 and now
in Win7 x64. The original Program Files name is used for 64-bit
applications. Most applications are still 32-bit and they are installed in
the newer "Program Files (x86)" folder; the "x86" refers to the line of
Intel 16- and 32-bit CPUs starting with the 8086 in the mid-1980's. Win7
x64 should automatically sort apps into the correct folders, and the user
usually will not even notice unless he is watching closely during the app's
setup.

> My 'puter is a Sony Vaio VGN-N270F.
>
> Amazing how much stuff they can shoehorn into a 6.4 lb. box!
>
> I'm so lost, a little less, as time passes watching the video help!
>
> I DO miss outlook express. From such familiarity, this is a new step out
> into the wild, so-to-speak.

Even Vista did not have OE, and Microsoft announced about 3 years ago that
development on both OE and Vista's Windows Mail had ceased and no further
updates will be forthcoming, except for security fixes that might be needed.
As discussed earlier in this thread, Win7 has no email/news app at all, but
you can download Windows Live Essentials - including Windows Live Mail - for
free from download.live.com. Millions of users have successfully made the
transition from OE to WLM, and I'm sure you will, too.

> Andy

Come on in. The water's fine! ;<)

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8089.0726) in Win7 Ultimate x64

Andy[_12_]
October 27th 09, 10:54 AM
"R. C. White" > wrote in
ecom:

> Hi, Andy.
>
> See my inline bottom post...
>
> "Andy" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "R. C. White" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Hi, Henny.
>>>
>>> Maybe I can answer a couple of your questions.
>>>
>>>> Why no windows mail?
>>>
>>> Because people have complained for years about the "bloat" In
>>> Windows.
>>> By removing some functions that are not part of the actual
>>> operating
>>> system, MS made Windows 7 a bit slimmer than Vista. This also
>>> reduces the complaints from vendors of competing products.
>>>
>>> But, you can go to http://download.live.com and download - for free
>>> - all the Windows Live Essentials. These include Windows Live Mail,
>>> Windows Live Photo Gallery, Windows Live Messenger and a couple of
>>> others.
>>>
>>> It's like if Ford was forbidden to include a radio in their cars
>>> because of complaints from Bose and other radio makers. The Ford
>>> dealer could tell his customer, "You are free to go to Best Buy or
>>> Wal*Mart or wherever you like and buy the radio of your choice. Or,
>>> you can drive around to our service department and we'll install our
>>> radio for free!" It doesn't make sense to me, but it should quiet
>>> some of the complaints.
>>>
>>>> Are not these cluttered screens and a cluttered task bar just
>>>> hopeless confusion to new and less experienced users?
>>>
>>> Not as much as you think. Most "new and less experienced users"
>>> will not have to shake off the WinXP mindset that afflicts so many
>>> experienced users. They will arrive at Win7 without all that old
>>> baggage.
>>>
>>> But many WinXP users - mostly the ones who have so adamantly
>>> resisted learning to use Vista - will also have trouble learning to
>>> use Win7 - or any other new system.
>>>
>>> But those who enjoy learning about new and better systems will be
>>> enjoying Win7 in just a few days. ;<)
>>>
>>> RC
>>
>>
>> I just got a Win7 'puter (laptop) on Saturday. Therre's a ton of
>> learning curve for me.
>
> It should be fun - if you enjoy learning. ;<)
>
>> The 64-bit OS has made me a bit nervous.
>
> No need to be nervous. I've never had a Sony - or any laptop. But
> I'm sure that Sony has already taken care of the hard parts. I doubt
> that you will really notice the difference between 32-bit and 64-bit.
> Most of the differences are under the hood; the user interfaces are
> identical.
>
> One important difference is that 64-bit Windows has an additional
> program files folder, which first appeared in WinXP x64, then in Vista
> x64 and now in Win7 x64. The original Program Files name is used for
> 64-bit applications. Most applications are still 32-bit and they are
> installed in the newer "Program Files (x86)" folder; the "x86" refers
> to the line of Intel 16- and 32-bit CPUs starting with the 8086 in the
> mid-1980's. Win7 x64 should automatically sort apps into the correct
> folders, and the user usually will not even notice unless he is
> watching closely during the app's setup.
>
>> My 'puter is a Sony Vaio VGN-N270F.
>>
>> Amazing how much stuff they can shoehorn into a 6.4 lb. box!
>>
>> I'm so lost, a little less, as time passes watching the video help!
>>
>> I DO miss outlook express. From such familiarity, this is a new step
>> out into the wild, so-to-speak.
>
> Even Vista did not have OE, and Microsoft announced about 3 years ago
> that development on both OE and Vista's Windows Mail had ceased and no
> further updates will be forthcoming, except for security fixes that
> might be needed. As discussed earlier in this thread, Win7 has no
> email/news app at all, but you can download Windows Live Essentials -
> including Windows Live Mail - for free from download.live.com.
> Millions of users have successfully made the transition from OE to
> WLM, and I'm sure you will, too.
>
>> Andy
>
> Come on in. The water's fine! ;<)
>
> RC


RC,

I'd have thought 64-bit Windows would be 32-bit backwards compatible but
I've noticed some data handling discrepancies with one application
"xNews", it doesn't sort date and time like it used to. It's a couple
years old, that might explain that.

Now I'm going to call up my software companies I've licensed and inquire
before re-installing them.

Thanks,

Andy

Andy[_12_]
October 27th 09, 10:58 AM
"R. C. White" > wrote in
ecom:

> Microsoft Windows MVP
> Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8089.0726) in Win7 Ultimate x64


RC,

Also, explain, if you can, is Windows Live Mail a standalone emailer or a
web/online email version like fetching hotmail?

I haven't done homework on Windows Live yet.

All this new nomenclature... DAMMIT!

Best,

Andy

Geordie
October 27th 09, 11:11 AM
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 04:54:03 -0500, Andy > compiled the
following:

<snip>
>I'd have thought 64-bit Windows would be 32-bit backwards compatible but
>I've noticed some data handling discrepancies with one application
>"xNews", it doesn't sort date and time like it used to. It's a couple
>years old, that might explain that.

The version of Xnews on this Win7 64bit m/c, Xnews/2009.05.01, is
sorting them the same way as I had it set up in Vista 64bit and in XP
32bit.
--
Geordie
Usenet, how to post info:
http://www.dickgaughan.co.uk/usenet/guide/faq08-topp.html
http://www.i-hate-computers.demon.co.uk/quote.html

Andy[_12_]
October 27th 09, 11:22 AM
Geordie > wrote in
:

> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 04:54:03 -0500, Andy > compiled the
> following:
>
> <snip>
>>I'd have thought 64-bit Windows would be 32-bit backwards compatible
but
>>I've noticed some data handling discrepancies with one application
>>"xNews", it doesn't sort date and time like it used to. It's a couple
>>years old, that might explain that.
>
> The version of Xnews on this Win7 64bit m/c, Xnews/2009.05.01, is
> sorting them the same way as I had it set up in Vista 64bit and in XP
> 32bit.


Geordie,

I remember a test version of xNews!

Chances are there's a sort setting I completely forgot about.


From his website,

"new test version that supports >2^31 article numbers (sorry, no, it's
not the 64 bit version of Xnews :) "

What the heck?

Andy

Geordie
October 27th 09, 11:59 AM
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 05:22:33 -0500, Andy > compiled the
following:

>Geordie > wrote in
:

>> The version of Xnews on this Win7 64bit m/c, Xnews/2009.05.01, is
>> sorting them the same way as I had it set up in Vista 64bit and in XP
>> 32bit.
>
>
>Geordie,
>
>I remember a test version of xNews!
>
That's the version I have.

>Chances are there's a sort setting I completely forgot about.
>
This is what is in my xnews config file:
DateFmtDay=hh:nn
DateFmtWeek=ddd dd hh:nn
DateFmtYear=mmm dd hh:nn

It might not be what you are looking for though.

>From his website,
>
>"new test version that supports >2^31 article numbers (sorry, no, it's
>not the 64 bit version of Xnews :) "
>
>What the heck?
>
>Andy

That was changes to Usenet postings if memory serves me correctly.

I only use Xnews as a back up, as Agent is my main newsreader.
--
Geordie
Usenet, how to post info:
http://www.dickgaughan.co.uk/usenet/guide/faq08-topp.html
http://www.i-hate-computers.demon.co.uk/quote.html

Andy[_12_]
October 27th 09, 12:08 PM
Geordie > wrote in
:

> I only use Xnews as a back up, as Agent is my main newsreader.
>


I never used Agent as a Usenet newsreader.

Not knowing better, I always figured xNews as having the most capable
scoring and filters.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Andy

Andy[_12_]
October 27th 09, 12:30 PM
I'm still grasping the "library" feature.

I know what it is by Photoshop's library feature, I just can't wrap my
brain around an OS file library.

I'm familiar with aliases. Maybe the mechanism/implentation is causeing
me increased confusion.

And I've been 'puting since 196, instant messaging back then, between
schools, too!!!

We had paper printout terminals with IBM APL/360 golfballs and hand
dialed/coupled phone to modem connect back in 6th grade.

By no surprise, I'm PO'd that I've slipped behind the times.

You youngsters!

Back in the early 1980's I handled 5mB Winchester 6-level hard, 2,000rpm
disk drives for the Data General refrigerator-sized "mini" mainframes.

Before floppy disks!!!

Andy

R. C. White
October 27th 09, 02:34 PM
Hi, Andy.

> RC,
>
> Also, explain, if you can, is Windows Live Mail a standalone emailer or a
> web/online email version like fetching hotmail?

Yes, it is a standalone mail/news application. (It is like OE, except that
it is not integral to the OS.)

Yes, it can handle Hotmail accounts - and IMAP - but the only protocols I
know about are POP3/SMTP and NNTP.

> I haven't done homework on Windows Live yet.

Go to download.live.com and have a good look.

> All this new nomenclature... DAMMIT!

Agreed! The Microsoft application-naming crew has created far too much
unnecessary confusion!

> Best,
>
> Andy

R. C. White
October 27th 09, 02:57 PM
Hi, again, Andy.

"Andy" > wrote in message ...
> I'm still grasping the "library" feature.
>
> I know what it is by Photoshop's library feature, I just can't wrap my
> brain around an OS file library.

Me, too. I KNOW where I have put my files. I put them into specific
folders (directories) on specific volumes (partitions and logical drives) on
specific HDDs because that's where my mind thinks they should be. And
that's where I look for them when I need them. The "libraries" concept says
I shouldn't worry about where they are; just click on what I want and
Windows will find it for me. But when I want a specific photo that I know
is in M:\Adobe\ChrisPix, I don't want to have to wander through Libraries or
even My Pictures to try to find it, because I already know where I put it.

> I'm familiar with aliases. Maybe the mechanism/implentation is causeing
> me increased confusion.

I think it's good for newbies who don't really understand partitions,
directories, file systems, etc. - and don't want to have to learn about
them. But for those of us who learned all that years ago, it's confusing.

> And I've been 'puting since 196, instant messaging back then, between
> schools, too!!!
>
> We had paper printout terminals with IBM APL/360 golfballs and hand
> dialed/coupled phone to modem connect back in 6th grade.

In college in the 1950's, we didn't have computers, we had "IBM Machines".
These were the "tabulating machines" that used 80-column punched cards. My
first computer was the original TRS-80 in 1977. I started with music
cassette storage and got a 5 1/4" floppy disk the next summer.

> By no surprise, I'm PO'd that I've slipped behind the times.

I figure that I started up this learning curve the day I was born and I
expect to keep climbing it until the day I die. Learning new stuff is still
FUN! ;<)

> You youngsters!
>
> Back in the early 1980's I handled 5mB Winchester 6-level hard, 2,000rpm
> disk drives for the Data General refrigerator-sized "mini" mainframes.

> Before floppy disks!!!

In the late 1970's, our CPA firm got the large-desk-size IBM Model 32
mini-computer. It used 8" floppy diskettes, but I never had a chance to use
them or or learn much about them. We had to hire an operator to run it.

The first hard disk I saw for a PC was a 5 MB drive for a TRS-80 Model II in
about 1983. It was about the size of the original Compaq computer.

> Andy

OK, enough reminiscing for today. We're probably boring those youngsters.
;<)

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8089.0726) in Win7 Ultimate x64

Andy[_12_]
October 27th 09, 06:34 PM
"R. C. White" > wrote in
:

> Hi, again, Andy.
>
> "Andy" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I'm still grasping the "library" feature.
>>
>> I know what it is by Photoshop's library feature, I just can't wrap
>> my brain around an OS file library.
>
> Me, too. I KNOW where I have put my files. I put them into specific
> folders (directories) on specific volumes (partitions and logical
> drives) on specific HDDs because that's where my mind thinks they
> should be. And that's where I look for them when I need them. The
> "libraries" concept says I shouldn't worry about where they are; just
> click on what I want and Windows will find it for me. But when I want
> a specific photo that I know is in M:\Adobe\ChrisPix, I don't want to
> have to wander through Libraries or even My Pictures to try to find
> it, because I already know where I put it.
>
>> I'm familiar with aliases. Maybe the mechanism/implentation is
>> causeing me increased confusion.
>
> I think it's good for newbies who don't really understand partitions,
> directories, file systems, etc. - and don't want to have to learn
> about them. But for those of us who learned all that years ago, it's
> confusing.
>
>> And I've been 'puting since 196, instant messaging back then, between
>> schools, too!!!
>>
>> We had paper printout terminals with IBM APL/360 golfballs and hand
>> dialed/coupled phone to modem connect back in 6th grade.
>
> In college in the 1950's, we didn't have computers, we had "IBM
> Machines". These were the "tabulating machines" that used 80-column
> punched cards. My first computer was the original TRS-80 in 1977. I
> started with music cassette storage and got a 5 1/4" floppy disk the
> next summer.


RC,

Ahhh, the good old Hollarith cards! BTW, I wasn't 'puting until 1969!
OOPS! :D

We had to program using them at UCLA. I'll never forget passing the
class. I took the shoebox of carefully index card separated programs and
tossing the entire thing into the air and let them flutter around. What
a great stress relief!!! LOLOL!!!

Best,

Andy



>> By no surprise, I'm PO'd that I've slipped behind the times.
>
> I figure that I started up this learning curve the day I was born and
> I expect to keep climbing it until the day I die. Learning new stuff
> is still FUN! ;<)
>
>> You youngsters!
>>
>> Back in the early 1980's I handled 5mB Winchester 6-level hard,
>> 2,000rpm disk drives for the Data General refrigerator-sized "mini"
>> mainframes.
>
>> Before floppy disks!!!
>
> In the late 1970's, our CPA firm got the large-desk-size IBM Model 32
> mini-computer. It used 8" floppy diskettes, but I never had a chance
> to use them or or learn much about them. We had to hire an operator
> to run it.
>
> The first hard disk I saw for a PC was a 5 MB drive for a TRS-80 Model
> II in about 1983. It was about the size of the original Compaq
> computer.
>
>> Andy
>
> OK, enough reminiscing for today. We're probably boring those
> youngsters. ;<)
>
> RC


Thanks for sharing the magic!

[waving]

Andy

Timothy Daniels[_4_]
October 30th 09, 05:33 AM
"Andy" wrote:
> Ahhh, the good old Hollarith cards! BTW, I wasn't 'puting
> until 1969!
> OOPS! :D
>
> We had to program using them at UCLA....

Yeah, and those cards were dispensed out of vending
machines outside the program submission window in
Boelter Hall. I remember having to write tight FORTRAN
code to fit the programs onto my budget-limited pack of
cards. I remember taking the FORTRAN course from a
Vietnamese grad student named "Tran" that year. That was
just about the time that ARPA research started at UCLA
and at other universities to give rise to the ARPAnet and
then the Internet.

*TimDaniels*

Gordon
October 30th 09, 09:55 AM
"Speaking in silver" > wrote in message
...
>
> No, but you can always use Google groups :-(

And get blocked by many newsreader-using regulars.....

Gordon
October 30th 09, 09:59 AM
"R. C. White" > wrote in message
ecom...
>
> Agreed! The Microsoft application-naming crew has created far too much
> unnecessary confusion!
>

At least the confusion between Outlook Express and Outlook is diminishing
rapidly with the demise of XP.... :-)

Alex Clayton
October 30th 09, 12:22 PM
"Gordon" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Speaking in silver" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> No, but you can always use Google groups :-(
>
> And get blocked by many newsreader-using regulars.....
>

I still have a Google Groups account I had not used in years. Logged in and
checked and it shows no such group still. I guess they are not yet archiving
or supporting this group.
--
The older we get, the fewer things seem worth waiting in line for.
Will Rogers

Gordon
October 30th 09, 01:40 PM
"Speaking in silver" > wrote in message
...
>
> Part of the global strategy against freedom in the internet. Usenet allows
> to post and download anonymously. They don't like that. Instead, they want
> you to use use WLM,

Eh? What rubbish. Windows Live Mail is an email client/News reader just like
Thunderbird. How does that compromise your anonymity in Usenet?

Geordie
October 30th 09, 02:46 PM
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 04:22:09 -0700, "Alex Clayton"
> compiled the following:

>"Gordon" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "Speaking in silver" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> No, but you can always use Google groups :-(
>>
>> And get blocked by many newsreader-using regulars.....
>>
>
>I still have a Google Groups account I had not used in years. Logged in and
>checked and it shows no such group still. I guess they are not yet archiving
>or supporting this group.

It would appear that this group has been incorrectly set up as there
is no proper control message, therefore, most NNTP servers are seeing
it.
--
Geordie
Usenet, how to post info:
http://www.dickgaughan.co.uk/usenet/guide/faq08-topp.html
http://www.i-hate-computers.demon.co.uk/quote.html

Geordie
October 30th 09, 02:51 PM
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:46:28 +0000, Geordie
> compiled the following:

>It would appear that this group has been incorrectly set up as there
>is no proper control message, therefore, most NNTP servers are seeing
>it.

Hmmm, that should be *NOT* seeing it.
--
Geordie
Usenet, how to post info:
http://www.dickgaughan.co.uk/usenet/guide/faq08-topp.html
http://www.i-hate-computers.demon.co.uk/quote.html

Daave[_8_]
October 30th 09, 08:29 PM
Alex Clayton wrote:

> I still have a Google Groups account I had not used in years. Logged
> in and checked and it shows no such group still. I guess they are not
> yet archiving or supporting this group.

Not that I'm recommending it, but there are *tons* of other Web
interfaces to Usenet. Here's one that is carrying this newsgroup:

http://www.w7forums.com/alt-windows7-general-f28.html

R. C. White
October 30th 09, 10:30 PM
Hi, Daave.

Yes, but that's another FORUM! Microsoft offers FORUMS! We don't need no
steekin' FORUMS! What we are looking for is Windows 7 NEWSGROUPS!

And, besides, like all the other FORUMS, it just leeches (or "slurps") posts
from here. :>(

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8089.0726) in Win7 Ultimate x64

"Daave" > wrote in message
.. .
> Alex Clayton wrote:
>
>> I still have a Google Groups account I had not used in years. Logged
>> in and checked and it shows no such group still. I guess they are not
>> yet archiving or supporting this group.
>
> Not that I'm recommending it, but there are *tons* of other Web interfaces
> to Usenet. Here's one that is carrying this newsgroup:
>
> http://www.w7forums.com/alt-windows7-general-f28.html

Gordon
October 30th 09, 11:06 PM
"R. C. White" > wrote in message
ecom...
> Hi, Daave.
>
> Yes, but that's another FORUM! Microsoft offers FORUMS! We don't need no
> steekin' FORUMS! What we are looking for is Windows 7 NEWSGROUPS!

Well MS ain't gonna give us newsgroups for Win 7 it seems, mainly because of
the CRAP posted by idiots on both sides in the Vista general newsgroup...

Daave[_8_]
October 31st 09, 04:06 AM
The rest of that site is indeed a Web forum, but the link I posted is to
this very newsgroup. Look again.

In fact, here is this very thread:

http://www.w7forums.com/windows-7-questions-t1867.html

At the time I am replying, our posts appear on page 4 of the thread.

So, it shouldn't be long until Google Groups also has this
alt.windows7.general newgroup.

What ticks me off is Microsoft not starting any Windows 7-specific
groups. Oh, well...




R. C. White wrote:
> Hi, Daave.
>
> Yes, but that's another FORUM! Microsoft offers FORUMS! We don't
> need no steekin' FORUMS! What we are looking for is Windows 7
> NEWSGROUPS!
> And, besides, like all the other FORUMS, it just leeches (or
> "slurps") posts from here. :>(
>
> RC
>
> "Daave" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Alex Clayton wrote:
>>
>>> I still have a Google Groups account I had not used in years. Logged
>>> in and checked and it shows no such group still. I guess they are
>>> not yet archiving or supporting this group.
>>
>> Not that I'm recommending it, but there are *tons* of other Web
>> interfaces to Usenet. Here's one that is carrying this newsgroup:
>>
>> http://www.w7forums.com/alt-windows7-general-f28.html

Leythos[_2_]
October 31st 09, 04:34 AM
In article >,
says...
> What ticks me off is Microsoft not starting any Windows 7-specific
> groups. Oh, well...
>

There was Usenet for a Decade before MS even found the internet, we
don't really need MS created/owned groups to continue.

--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
(remove 999 for proper email address)

Google