What will Microsoft think of next...

[John Doe]

A decade after Windows 3.1, the scroll bar works properely. I guess
it was Windows 95 when Microsoft messed up the full screen scroll
bar, so that you could no longer slam the pointer on the edge of a
full screen window and click to scroll one page. But apparently they
found that missing brain cell, rubbed the two together, and
reincluded that function. At least that's the way it works here on
my Windows 8 Pro. Wow.

Rambling...

Next thing you know, Microsoft might get serious with speech input &
output. The way it's going, that will happen bass ackwards, with
smartphones having speech before desktops. I think that Microsoft is
under some pressure (probably a reason for the sillyness of the
Windows 8 Metro crap). If it losses track of what it's supposed to
be doing (PCs), it could lose hold on its desktop monopoly. Not
likely, but would be great to see Microsoft get shaken up a little
by pressure coming from smartphone OSes. The only befinit PCs have
is screen/display and keyboard size. And with speech, the value of a
full size keyboard is greatly diminished. Personal computers will
always do much more, but the masses might eventually be satisfied
with the very small frame of a smartphone, especially if it can be
plugged into a big screen.

[Alias[_43_]]

On 11/4/2012 3:25 PM, John Doe wrote:
> The only befinit PCs have
> is screen/display and keyboard size.

Replacing/changing things like RAM, video cards, NICs, Processors, Power
Supplies, Motherboards, etc. is a tad easier with a desktop than the toy
tablets that are the current rage, just like the netbooks were and where
the tablets will end up.

--
Alias

[Sam Hill]

Alias wrote:

> John Doe wrote:
>> The only befinit PCs have is screen/display and keyboard size.
>
> Replacing/changing things like RAM, video cards, NICs, Processors, Power
> Supplies, Motherboards, etc. is a tad easier with a desktop than the toy
> tablets that are the current rage, just like the netbooks were and where
> the tablets will end up.

I'm sure y'all have noticed that in *all* the "tablet" TV commercials they
*never* show anyone doing actual productive work. They never show anyone
composing a corporate word document, using a spreadsheet, programming, web
site creation, writing a comprehensive email, posting to Usenet, nor many
other chores where a keyboard is a necessity. All they ever show is people
fooling around with pictures. Or kids drawing.

The toy tablet might be fun to use for the hobbiest home user, but
certainly not in the real business world.

--
sam

[John Doe]

Sam Hill <sam example.com> wrote:

> Alias wrote:
>> John Doe wrote:

>>> The only befinit PCs have is screen/display and keyboard size.

>> Replacing/changing things like RAM, video cards, NICs,
>> Processors, Power Supplies, Motherboards, etc. is a tad easier
>> with a desktop than the toy tablets that are the current rage,
>> just like the netbooks were and where the tablets will end up.

Yes, that's certainly true, obviously. That's always been the
case, and especially true when compared to ultraportable personal
computers (smart phones). But that's only a matter of cost.

If you don't live in a cave, you might have noticed that Apple
magically became the richest corporation in the world, thanks to
its iPhone ultraportable wirelessly networked and GPS enabled PCs
(known as "smartphones").

> I'm sure y'all have noticed that in *all* the "tablet" TV
> commercials they *never* show anyone doing actual productive
> work. They never show anyone composing a corporate word
> document, using a spreadsheet, programming, web site creation,
> writing a comprehensive email, posting to Usenet, nor many other
> chores where a keyboard is a necessity. All they ever show is
> people fooling around with pictures. Or kids drawing.

Your appreciation for a keyboard would be greatly diminished if
you were using speech. Someday, a keyboard will look archaic,
believe it or not. Speech isn't just for typing. Speech opens up a
whole new world of automation in Windows. There is no comparison
between speech activated and keyboard activated macros/scripts.

> The toy tablet might be fun to use for the hobbiest home user,
> but certainly not in the real business world.

That's the way all new computer technology starts out. Originally,
massive mainframes weren't nearly functional as ordinary personal
computers are nowadays. It's a simple matter of miniaturization,
over and over again.

One factor is that the masses don't want to be "syncing" stuff
from here to there. Personal means personal. An ultraportable PC,
a PC that can be carried in hand, is the ideal. The masses
probably won't have anything else. Most people couldn't care less
about personal computing. Applications are all that matters. In
other words... If an ultraportable personal computer will do
everything that Sally wants it to do, Sally isn't going to have a
standard size PC taking up desk space.

[Alias[_43_]]

On 11/4/2012 4:25 PM, John Doe wrote:
> If you don't live in a cave, you might have noticed that Apple
> magically became the richest corporation in the world, thanks to
> its iPhone ultraportable wirelessly networked and GPS enabled PCs
> (known as "smartphones").

The good folks that invented the Hula Hoop did well too -- until the fad
wore off. How many iPods are making Apple rich nowadays?

--
Alias

[John Doe]

Alias <aka masked&anonymous.com.invalid> wrote:

> John Doe wrote:

>> If you don't live in a cave, you might have noticed that Apple
>> magically became the richest corporation in the world, thanks
>> to its iPhone ultraportable wirelessly networked and GPS
>> enabled PCs (known as "smartphones").
>
> The good folks that invented the Hula Hoop did well too -- until
> the fad wore off. How many iPods are making Apple rich nowadays?

I'm not a fan of Apple or Microsoft, I'm just presenting facts.
You can deny them if you want to. I really don't care about this
side issue.

Apple's astounding success since 2007 is mostly thanks to its
iPhone, an ultraportable wirelessly connected PC that includes a
mobile phone and GPS. It's probably the most personal personal
computer that ever will be.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/20/technology/apple-most-valuable-company/index.html

Apple is now the most valuable company of all time.

Apple's market value eclipsed the previous record of $618.9
billion set by Microsoft at the height of the dot-com bubble.

Since 2007, Apple has been an unstoppable force. Its iPhone
business alone now brings in more money than Microsoft. Even the
iPad, which was intended to be a gap-filling product between the
iPhone and the Macintosh, has itself become a multi-billion dollar
product for Apple.

[Sam Hill]

John Doe wrote:

> Sam Hill wrote:
>> I'm sure y'all have noticed that in *all* the "tablet" TV commercials
>> they *never* show anyone doing actual productive work. They never show
>> anyone composing a corporate word document, using a spreadsheet,
>> programming, web site creation, writing a comprehensive email, posting
>> to Usenet, nor many other chores where a keyboard is a necessity. All
>> they ever show is people fooling around with pictures. Or kids drawing.
>
> Your appreciation for a keyboard would be greatly diminished if you were
> using speech. Someday, a keyboard will look archaic, believe it or not.

Someday. Perhaps nearer to Stardate 1315.5. I've seen speech applications
at work, and there is no way a serious office clerk or a programmer would
ever use such a device to churn out real work.

Remember a couple years ago, a Microsoft tech show where the moderator was
demonstrating speech creating a document? He had to keep saying "Erase!"
and starting over - and that was for simple text, nothing with fancy
formatting such as in a business document. ;-)

> Speech isn't just for typing. Speech opens up a whole new world of
> automation in Windows. There is no comparison between speech activated
> and keyboard activated macros/scripts.

You're right. There is no comparison. Speech is nowhere near ready for
replacing keyboards in this decade or even the next.

>> The toy tablet might be fun to use for the hobbiest home user, but
>> certainly not in the real business world.
>
> That's the way all new computer technology starts out. Originally,
> massive mainframes weren't nearly functional as ordinary personal
> computers are nowadays. It's a simple matter of miniaturization, over
> and over again.

Miniaturization of the computer itself is welcome; I don't dispute that at
all, and not the current subject. If my tower case here was the size of an
iPhone, I'd be sort of happy, I suppose. As long as it comes with a decent-
sized monitor for multi-app/window display (i.e. widescreen) and a
suitable keyboard for speedy touch-typing.

> Applications are all that matters. In other words... If an ultraportable
> personal computer will do everything that Sally wants it to do, Sally
> isn't going to have a standard size PC taking up desk space.

As I said, the size and shape of the *box* can be as small as one could
make it. Just don't take away my ability to type.

If tablets were suitable for office work, the commercials would show it.

And the amount of money that Apple has made is unrelated to this topic.

--
sam

[John Doe]

I have been using speech for dictation and automation in Windows,
for almost 10 years. This ignorant thing has no experience with
speech.

--

Sam Hill <sam example.com> wrote:

> Path: eternal-september.org!mx04.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
> From: Sam Hill <sam example.com>
> Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-8
> Subject: Re: What will Microsoft think of next...
> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 21:02:39 +0000 (UTC)
> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
> Lines: 56
> Message-ID: <k76l5e$2th$2 dont-email.me>
> References: <k75tsp$j29$1 dont-email.me> <k75uhv$p51$1 speranza.aioe.org> <k75vi1$lga$2 dont-email.me> <k761cp$8hl$1 dont-email.me>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> Injection-Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 21:02:39 +0000 (UTC)
> Injection-Info: mx04.eternal-september.org; posting-host="2067dc39c6eccdfbfb074ede3b3f7e5c"; logging-data="2993"; mail-complaints-to="abuse eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19QsJjKfW9u2tdBPd0k73UH"
> User-Agent: Pan/0.139 (Sexual Chocolate; GIT bf56508 git://git.gnome.org/pan2)
> Cancel-Lock: sha1:egg8eBB2IuJJ8so9RCFlKfhSInc=
> Xref: mx04.eternal-september.org alt.comp.os.windows-8:960
>
> John Doe wrote:
>
>> Sam Hill wrote:
>>> I'm sure y'all have noticed that in *all* the "tablet" TV commercials
>>> they *never* show anyone doing actual productive work. They never show
>>> anyone composing a corporate word document, using a spreadsheet,
>>> programming, web site creation, writing a comprehensive email, posting
>>> to Usenet, nor many other chores where a keyboard is a necessity. All
>>> they ever show is people fooling around with pictures. Or kids drawing.
>>
>> Your appreciation for a keyboard would be greatly diminished if you were
>> using speech. Someday, a keyboard will look archaic, believe it or not.
>
> Someday. Perhaps nearer to Stardate 1315.5. I've seen speech applications
> at work, and there is no way a serious office clerk or a programmer would
> ever use such a device to churn out real work.
>
> Remember a couple years ago, a Microsoft tech show where the moderator was
> demonstrating speech creating a document? He had to keep saying "Erase!"
> and starting over - and that was for simple text, nothing with fancy
> formatting such as in a business document. ;-)
>
>> Speech isn't just for typing. Speech opens up a whole new world of
>> automation in Windows. There is no comparison between speech activated
>> and keyboard activated macros/scripts.
>
> You're right. There is no comparison. Speech is nowhere near ready for
> replacing keyboards in this decade or even the next.
>
>>> The toy tablet might be fun to use for the hobbiest home user, but
>>> certainly not in the real business world.
>>
>> That's the way all new computer technology starts out. Originally,
>> massive mainframes weren't nearly functional as ordinary personal
>> computers are nowadays. It's a simple matter of miniaturization, over
>> and over again.
>
> Miniaturization of the computer itself is welcome; I don't dispute that at
> all, and not the current subject. If my tower case here was the size of an
> iPhone, I'd be sort of happy, I suppose. As long as it comes with a decent-
> sized monitor for multi-app/window display (i.e. widescreen) and a
> suitable keyboard for speedy touch-typing.
>
>> Applications are all that matters. In other words... If an ultraportable
>> personal computer will do everything that Sally wants it to do, Sally
>> isn't going to have a standard size PC taking up desk space.
>
> As I said, the size and shape of the *box* can be as small as one could
> make it. Just don't take away my ability to type.
>
> If tablets were suitable for office work, the commercials would show it.
>
> And the amount of money that Apple has made is unrelated to this topic.
>
> --
> sam
>
>

[Glen]

John Doe > wrote in news:k75tsp$j29$1@dont-
email.me:

> A decade after Windows 3.1, the scroll bar works properely. I guess
> it was Windows 95 when Microsoft messed up the full screen scroll
> bar, so that you could no longer slam the pointer on the edge of a
> full screen window and click to scroll one page. But apparently they
> found that missing brain cell, rubbed the two together, and
> reincluded that function. At least that's the way it works here on
> my Windows 8 Pro. Wow.
>
> Rambling...
>
> Next thing you know, Microsoft might get serious with speech input &
> output. The way it's going, that will happen bass ackwards, with
> smartphones having speech before desktops. I think that Microsoft is
> under some pressure (probably a reason for the sillyness of the
> Windows 8 Metro crap). If it losses track of what it's supposed to
> be doing (PCs), it could lose hold on its desktop monopoly. Not
> likely, but would be great to see Microsoft get shaken up a little
> by pressure coming from smartphone OSes. The only befinit PCs have
> is screen/display and keyboard size. And with speech, the value of a
> full size keyboard is greatly diminished. Personal computers will
> always do much more, but the masses might eventually be satisfied
> with the very small frame of a smartphone, especially if it can be
> plugged into a big screen.

My own rambling:

I just found this newsgroup, while looking for info on why I should go
from Win7 to Win8. I don't care much for the Win8 Metro look/feel, but
figure MS needs to compete with those that provide devices, esp.
smartphones and tablets, for social media/media users.

If I'm going to watch a movie, I want to see it on at least a normal
sized TV, and I prefer to hear music on at least bookshelf speakers, if
not floor standing speakers.

And all this about being able to synch...or save files to the
cloud...most people I know that have gone this route, don't do it
anymore. It was fun and cool, because they could do it, but it's just
too much trouble to keep it up.

On the other hand, I like to keep up, even if only as a hobby. I'm dying
to buy a new gadget. I love the Samsung Galaxy S3 my wife just bought,
and I spend hours playing with it. The thing is, I've never been able to
see myself watching a movie, browsing, or writing emails on a 7" screen,
with a small virtual kbd, let alone a smaller smartphone.

Now, with Win8 as a smartphone OS, and a pc OS, do I 'need' both to be
'productive'. Of course not.

[charlie[_2_]]

On 11/8/2012 11:32 AM, Glen wrote:
> John Doe > wrote in news:k75tsp$j29$1@dont-
> email.me:
>
>> A decade after Windows 3.1, the scroll bar works properely. I guess
>> it was Windows 95 when Microsoft messed up the full screen scroll
>> bar, so that you could no longer slam the pointer on the edge of a
>> full screen window and click to scroll one page. But apparently they
>> found that missing brain cell, rubbed the two together, and
>> reincluded that function. At least that's the way it works here on
>> my Windows 8 Pro. Wow.
>>
>> Rambling...
>>
>> Next thing you know, Microsoft might get serious with speech input &
>> output. The way it's going, that will happen bass ackwards, with
>> smartphones having speech before desktops. I think that Microsoft is
>> under some pressure (probably a reason for the sillyness of the
>> Windows 8 Metro crap). If it losses track of what it's supposed to
>> be doing (PCs), it could lose hold on its desktop monopoly. Not
>> likely, but would be great to see Microsoft get shaken up a little
>> by pressure coming from smartphone OSes. The only befinit PCs have
>> is screen/display and keyboard size. And with speech, the value of a
>> full size keyboard is greatly diminished. Personal computers will
>> always do much more, but the masses might eventually be satisfied
>> with the very small frame of a smartphone, especially if it can be
>> plugged into a big screen.
>
> My own rambling:
>
> I just found this newsgroup, while looking for info on why I should go
> from Win7 to Win8. I don't care much for the Win8 Metro look/feel, but
> figure MS needs to compete with those that provide devices, esp.
> smartphones and tablets, for social media/media users.
>
> If I'm going to watch a movie, I want to see it on at least a normal
> sized TV, and I prefer to hear music on at least bookshelf speakers, if
> not floor standing speakers.
>
> And all this about being able to synch...or save files to the
> cloud...most people I know that have gone this route, don't do it
> anymore. It was fun and cool, because they could do it, but it's just
> too much trouble to keep it up.
>
> On the other hand, I like to keep up, even if only as a hobby. I'm dying
> to buy a new gadget. I love the Samsung Galaxy S3 my wife just bought,
> and I spend hours playing with it. The thing is, I've never been able to
> see myself watching a movie, browsing, or writing emails on a 7" screen,
> with a small virtual kbd, let alone a smaller smartphone.
>
> Now, with Win8 as a smartphone OS, and a pc OS, do I 'need' both to be
> 'productive'. Of course not.
>
Some smartphones such as mine, a Google HTC G1 already have apps for
speech recognition and generation. But, due to the phone RAM memory
size, and the way currently unused but loaded apps consume RAM, I'd need
to remove some of the other apps to use it. The ops system does not
support swapping to the phone's removable memory card.

[John Doe]

Glen <abc abc.invalid> wrote:

> If I'm going to watch a movie, I want to see it on at least a
> normal sized TV, and I prefer to hear music on at least
> bookshelf speakers, if not floor standing speakers.

> The thing is, I've never been able to see myself watching a
> movie, browsing, or writing emails on a 7" screen, with a small
> virtual kbd, let alone a smaller smartphone.

With enough miniaturization, you'll be able to plug an
ultraportable PC (smartphone) into a full-size TV or monitor.

And, further on down the road, with advanced speech recognition,
you won't need other input devices.