Upgraded to Win 8 from Win 7... Licence query

[Nthkentman]

Ok, all went well. I'm pleased (generally) with the set-up and have tweaked
to suit my requirements.

The upgrade from Win7 obviously leaves me with the old Win7 DVD. Which as I
see it is now not installed on that machine any more as Win 8 is now the O.S
alone.

Question is, can I now use that Win 7 DVD in another PC that I wish to
upgrade from XP to Win 7 ?

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 15:08:51 -0000, "Nthkentman" >
wrote in article >...
>
> Ok, all went well. I'm pleased (generally) with the set-up and have tweaked
> to suit my requirements.
>
> The upgrade from Win7 obviously leaves me with the old Win7 DVD. Which as I
> see it is now not installed on that machine any more as Win 8 is now the O.S
> alone.
>
> Question is, can I now use that Win 7 DVD in another PC that I wish to
> upgrade from XP to Win 7 ?

If you used an upgrade license for Win 8, then that license invalidates
the Win 7 license so technically you cannot use that Win 7 license
anymore.

--
Zaphod

Voted "Worst Dressed Sentient Being in the Known Universe" for seven
years in a row.

[Nthkentman]

"Zaphod Beeblebrox" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 15:08:51 -0000, "Nthkentman" >
wrote in article >...
>
> Ok, all went well. I'm pleased (generally) with the set-up and have
> tweaked
> to suit my requirements.
>
> The upgrade from Win7 obviously leaves me with the old Win7 DVD. Which as
> I
> see it is now not installed on that machine any more as Win 8 is now the
> O.S
> alone.
>
> Question is, can I now use that Win 7 DVD in another PC that I wish to
> upgrade from XP to Win 7 ?

If you used an upgrade license for Win 8, then that license invalidates
the Win 7 license so technically you cannot use that Win 7 license
anymore.


So why would it invalidate it?... If the downloaded Win 8 Upgrade has a new
licence, and is now the primary and only O.S why should the Win 7 licence
not still be valid?

[Ken Blake[_4_]]

On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 15:08:51 -0000, "Nthkentman"
> wrote:

> Ok, all went well. I'm pleased (generally) with the set-up and have tweaked
> to suit my requirements.
>
> The upgrade from Win7 obviously leaves me with the old Win7 DVD. Which as I
> see it is now not installed on that machine any more as Win 8 is now the O.S
> alone.
>
> Question is, can I now use that Win 7 DVD in another PC that I wish to
> upgrade from XP to Win 7 ?


No. When you buy and use an Upgrade, you end up with one license, not
two. That's why the Upgrade costs less than the Full version.


--
Ken Blake

[Alias[_43_]]

On 11/7/2012 4:08 PM, Nthkentman wrote:
> Ok, all went well. I'm pleased (generally) with the set-up and have
> tweaked to suit my requirements.
>
> The upgrade from Win7 obviously leaves me with the old Win7 DVD. Which
> as I see it is now not installed on that machine any more as Win 8 is
> now the O.S alone.
>
> Question is, can I now use that Win 7 DVD in another PC that I wish to
> upgrade from XP to Win 7 ?
>
>

You're not supposed to but it will probably activate and be declared
genuine by MS.

--
Alias

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 16:40:15 -0000, "Nthkentman" >
wrote in article >...
>
> "Zaphod Beeblebrox" wrote in message
> ...
>
> > On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 15:08:51 -0000, "Nthkentman" <nthkentman2>
> > @gmail.com>
> > wrote in article >...
> > >
> > > Ok, all went well. I'm pleased (generally) with the set-up and
> > > have
> > > tweaked
> > > to suit my requirements.
> > >
> > > The upgrade from Win7 obviously leaves me with the old Win7 DVD.
> > > Which as
> > > I
> > > see it is now not installed on that machine any more as Win 8 is
> > > now the
> > > O.S
> > > alone.
> > >
> > > Question is, can I now use that Win 7 DVD in another PC that I
> > > wish to
> > > upgrade from XP to Win 7 ?
> >
> > If you used an upgrade license for Win 8, then that license
> > invalidates
> > the Win 7 license so technically you cannot use that Win 7 license
> > anymore.
>
>
> So why would it invalidate it?... If the downloaded Win 8 Upgrade has a new
> licence, and is now the primary and only O.S why should the Win 7 licence
> not still be valid?

Because the Win 8 Upgrade license is only valid if you upgrade an
existing Windows installation, and is specifies that the existing
license you upgraded is now tied to the new Win 8 upgrade license.

--
Zaphod

Voted "Worst Dressed Sentient Being in the Known Universe" for seven
years in a row.

[..winston]

RETAIL UPGRADE
We do not sell our software or your copy of it – we only license it.
Under our license, we grant you the right to install and run
that one copy on one computer (the licensed computer), for
use by one person at a time, but only if you comply with all the
terms of this agreement. Typically, this means you can install one
copy of the software on a personal computer and then you can
use the software on that computer

After I upgrade, can I use my old Windows version on a separate
partition or on another PC? Can I give it away or sell it?
The software covered by this agreement is an upgrade to your
existing operating system software, so the upgrade replaces the
original software that you are upgrading. You do not retain any
rights to the original software after you have upgraded and you may
not continue to use it or transfer it in any way.



--
....winston
msft mvp


"Nthkentman" wrote in message ...

Ok, all went well. I'm pleased (generally) with the set-up and have tweaked
to suit my requirements.

The upgrade from Win7 obviously leaves me with the old Win7 DVD. Which as I
see it is now not installed on that machine any more as Win 8 is now the O.S
alone.

Question is, can I now use that Win 7 DVD in another PC that I wish to
upgrade from XP to Win 7 ?

[Robin Bignall]

On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 21:05:09 -0500, "..winston" >
wrote:

>RETAIL UPGRADE
>We do not sell our software or your copy of it – we only license it.
>Under our license, we grant you the right to install and run
>that one copy on one computer (the licensed computer), for
>use by one person at a time, but only if you comply with all the
>terms of this agreement. Typically, this means you can install one
>copy of the software on a personal computer and then you can
>use the software on that computer
>
>After I upgrade, can I use my old Windows version on a separate
>partition or on another PC? Can I give it away or sell it?
>The software covered by this agreement is an upgrade to your
>existing operating system software, so the upgrade replaces the
>original software that you are upgrading. You do not retain any
>rights to the original software after you have upgraded and you may
>not continue to use it or transfer it in any way.

Suppose you upgrade from 7 to 8, decide you do not like 8 and want to
revert to your 7 again. Are you saying that if you revert to 7 using a
disk clone it won't work because the 7 licence has been invalidated?
So how do you remove 8 to get your 7 back again.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

[charlie[_2_]]

On 11/9/2012 4:06 PM, Robin Bignall wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 21:05:09 -0500, "..winston" >
> wrote:
>
>> RETAIL UPGRADE
>> We do not sell our software or your copy of it – we only license it.
>> Under our license, we grant you the right to install and run
>> that one copy on one computer (the licensed computer), for
>> use by one person at a time, but only if you comply with all the
>> terms of this agreement. Typically, this means you can install one
>> copy of the software on a personal computer and then you can
>> use the software on that computer
>>
>> After I upgrade, can I use my old Windows version on a separate
>> partition or on another PC? Can I give it away or sell it?
>> The software covered by this agreement is an upgrade to your
>> existing operating system software, so the upgrade replaces the
>> original software that you are upgrading. You do not retain any
>> rights to the original software after you have upgraded and you may
>> not continue to use it or transfer it in any way.
>
> Suppose you upgrade from 7 to 8, decide you do not like 8 and want to
> revert to your 7 again. Are you saying that if you revert to 7 using a
> disk clone it won't work because the 7 licence has been invalidated?
> So how do you remove 8 to get your 7 back again.
>

You buy a new copy to comply with the license.
That's why I generally don't buy (or in the past, sell) upgrade versions.

[..winston]

If reinstallation of the prior o/s (after removal of the newer o/s) fails to activate one will have to contact MSFT and explain the
situation.

As noted elsewhere..the license says what you can or can not do and thereby what the license holder agrees to by accepting the
agreement and/or use...it does not hinder the technical ability (legal or illegal) to accomplish a task.

The licensor is responsible for stating their terms and enforcement; the licensee is responsible for abiding by the license (which
they accepted).


--
....winston
msft mvp


"Robin Bignall" wrote in message ...

On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 21:05:09 -0500, "..winston" >
wrote:

>RETAIL UPGRADE
>We do not sell our software or your copy of it – we only license it.
>Under our license, we grant you the right to install and run
>that one copy on one computer (the licensed computer), for
>use by one person at a time, but only if you comply with all the
>terms of this agreement. Typically, this means you can install one
>copy of the software on a personal computer and then you can
>use the software on that computer
>
>After I upgrade, can I use my old Windows version on a separate
>partition or on another PC? Can I give it away or sell it?
>The software covered by this agreement is an upgrade to your
>existing operating system software, so the upgrade replaces the
>original software that you are upgrading. You do not retain any
>rights to the original software after you have upgraded and you may
>not continue to use it or transfer it in any way.

Suppose you upgrade from 7 to 8, decide you do not like 8 and want to
revert to your 7 again. Are you saying that if you revert to 7 using a
disk clone it won't work because the 7 licence has been invalidated?
So how do you remove 8 to get your 7 back again.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

[Robin Bignall]

On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 17:43:26 -0500, charlie > wrote:

>On 11/9/2012 4:06 PM, Robin Bignall wrote:
>> On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 21:05:09 -0500, "..winston" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> RETAIL UPGRADE
>>> We do not sell our software or your copy of it – we only license it.
>>> Under our license, we grant you the right to install and run
>>> that one copy on one computer (the licensed computer), for
>>> use by one person at a time, but only if you comply with all the
>>> terms of this agreement. Typically, this means you can install one
>>> copy of the software on a personal computer and then you can
>>> use the software on that computer
>>>
>>> After I upgrade, can I use my old Windows version on a separate
>>> partition or on another PC? Can I give it away or sell it?
>>> The software covered by this agreement is an upgrade to your
>>> existing operating system software, so the upgrade replaces the
>>> original software that you are upgrading. You do not retain any
>>> rights to the original software after you have upgraded and you may
>>> not continue to use it or transfer it in any way.
>>
>> Suppose you upgrade from 7 to 8, decide you do not like 8 and want to
>> revert to your 7 again. Are you saying that if you revert to 7 using a
>> disk clone it won't work because the 7 licence has been invalidated?
>> So how do you remove 8 to get your 7 back again.
>>
>
>You buy a new copy to comply with the license.
>That's why I generally don't buy (or in the past, sell) upgrade versions.

The Win 8 I bought was the version that allowed multiple installs on
home-built hardware, with or without the option of keeping one's
programs and settings. Not an upgrade version. Not that that makes any
difference. Opting to keep one's programs and settings, it's certainly
not made clear that that is a one-way street. I'm now glad that the Win
8 installation failed.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

[..winston]

"Robin Bignall" wrote in message ...

>
The Win 8 I bought was the version that allowed multiple installs on
home-built hardware, with or without the option of keeping one's
programs and settings. Not an upgrade version. Not that that makes any
difference. Opting to keep one's programs and settings, it's certainly
not made clear that that is a one-way street. I'm now glad that the Win
8 installation failed.
>

None of the available Windows 8 versions provide licensing for use on multiple devices. One license, one device, one use...to use
on another device/virtual/partition removal is necessary.

These are the options available for retention of a prior o/s contents when upgrading while running the prior qualifying o/s.
- Upgrade from Windows 7 and you can keep programs, Windows settings and files; upgrade from Vista and keep settings and files.
Upgrading from Windows XP only gives you your personal files.
- Personal Use/System Builder versions are for clean installs
- MSDN/Technet full versions can be used to perform an upgrade or clean install

[Robin Bignall]

On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 01:19:51 -0500, "..winston" >
wrote:

>
>"Robin Bignall" wrote in message ...
>
>>
>The Win 8 I bought was the version that allowed multiple installs on
>home-built hardware, with or without the option of keeping one's
>programs and settings. Not an upgrade version. Not that that makes any
>difference. Opting to keep one's programs and settings, it's certainly
>not made clear that that is a one-way street. I'm now glad that the Win
>8 installation failed.
>>
>
>None of the available Windows 8 versions provide licensing for use on multiple devices. One license, one device, one use...to use
>on another device/virtual/partition removal is necessary.
>
I didn't phrase it very well. It was not an OEM, tied to the first
hardware it was installed on. It was the last option below.

>These are the options available for retention of a prior o/s contents when upgrading while running the prior qualifying o/s.
>- Upgrade from Windows 7 and you can keep programs, Windows settings and files; upgrade from Vista and keep settings and files.
>Upgrading from Windows XP only gives you your personal files.
>- Personal Use/System Builder versions are for clean installs
>- MSDN/Technet full versions can be used to perform an upgrade or clean install

The point I'm making is that if you upgrade from Win 7 (full version) to
Win 8 (full version) and then decide you do not like Win 8, you cannot
go back to Win 7 without buying a new Win 7 licence, although you have
already paid for a Win 7 licence, because the latter has been
invalidated. This is what I seem to be hearing. Having bought Win 8
and wasted your money, you have to buy Win 7 again to get back to where
you were. It doesn't seem right to me.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

[Robin Bignall]

On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 18:04:12 -0700, fritz > wrote:

>On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 01:17:56 +0000, Robin Bignall
> wrote:
>>I'm now glad that the Win 8 installation failed.
>
>My installation failed, too. Must be catching.
>
>Guess it didn't like how my Win7 is configured. Have to guess since
>it didn't say why it failed.
>
>To add insult to injury, the "Windows installation was not successful.
>Your previous... etc. " message was on a blue screen. :-)
>
>My first time ever for a Windows install failure. The confidence
>level wasn't very high - trying to install from inside the OS.
>
>I was willing, but I can take a hint.

I know why mine failed, but you might try running the Win 8 Upgrade
Advisor
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/upgrade-to-windows-8

It will examine Win 7 and list all of the (potential) problems.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

[..winston]

If your Win8 installed and a blue screen appeared, an error code should have been present.

I can't recall ever seeing a blue screen (of death - BSOD) without some type of text referencing memory location or error



--
....winston
msft mvp


"fritz" wrote in message om...

On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 01:17:56 +0000, Robin Bignall
> wrote:
>I'm now glad that the Win 8 installation failed.

My installation failed, too. Must be catching.

Guess it didn't like how my Win7 is configured. Have to guess since
it didn't say why it failed.

To add insult to injury, the "Windows installation was not successful.
Your previous... etc. " message was on a blue screen. :-)

My first time ever for a Windows install failure. The confidence
level wasn't very high - trying to install from inside the OS.

I was willing, but I can take a hint.

[..winston]

That's not how it works if you wish to go back to the previous o/s and switch back to your previous o/s license.

The upgrade license has this provision:
"You may transfer the software to another computer that belongs to you. … You may not transfer the software to share licenses
between computers."

i.e. Restoring an image is fine and it should remain activated or reinstalling the prior o/s from CD/DVD may activate, if not, then
one has to attempt to activate by phone or over the phone with the help of a MSFT representative. In some cases the contacting a
live person may not be necessary (just answer the questions)...if a person is required then explain the situation to gain approval
(it would be a good idea for the approach to be clear and non abrasive <g>).
- Once done, the Win8 license can be used on another machine (or yours that qualifies for the upgrade) or a [refund requested]*.

Also in the license (regarding transfer)
"You may also transfer the software (together with the license) to a computer owned by someone else if a) you are the first
licensed user of the software and b) the new user agrees to the terms of this agreement. To make that transfer, you must transfer
the original media, the certificate of authenticity, the product key and the proof of purchase directly to that other person,
without retaining any copies of the software."
"Anytime you transfer the software to a new computer, you must remove the software from the prior computer."

If purchased elsewhere than MSFT, that source would handle the refund (note: return or restocking fees may apply for opened
software; also the source may have limitations for opened software).
If purchased from MSFT (and not wishing to use the product later) contact MSFT
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/html/pbPage.Help_Site_Contact_Us
- in the case of a downloaded Windows 8 upgrade - returns must be done within 30 days of purchase.
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/html/pbPage.Help_Return_Exchange


--
....winston
msft mvp


"Robin Bignall" wrote in message ...

On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 01:19:51 -0500, "..winston" >
wrote:

>
>"Robin Bignall" wrote in message ...
>
>>
>The Win 8 I bought was the version that allowed multiple installs on
>home-built hardware, with or without the option of keeping one's
>programs and settings. Not an upgrade version. Not that that makes any
>difference. Opting to keep one's programs and settings, it's certainly
>not made clear that that is a one-way street. I'm now glad that the Win
>8 installation failed.
>>
>
>None of the available Windows 8 versions provide licensing for use on multiple devices. One license, one device, one use...to use
>on another device/virtual/partition removal is necessary.
>
I didn't phrase it very well. It was not an OEM, tied to the first
hardware it was installed on. It was the last option below.

>These are the options available for retention of a prior o/s contents when upgrading while running the prior qualifying o/s.
>- Upgrade from Windows 7 and you can keep programs, Windows settings and files; upgrade from Vista and keep settings and files.
>Upgrading from Windows XP only gives you your personal files.
>- Personal Use/System Builder versions are for clean installs
>- MSDN/Technet full versions can be used to perform an upgrade or clean install

The point I'm making is that if you upgrade from Win 7 (full version) to
Win 8 (full version) and then decide you do not like Win 8, you cannot
go back to Win 7 without buying a new Win 7 licence, although you have
already paid for a Win 7 licence, because the latter has been
invalidated. This is what I seem to be hearing. Having bought Win 8
and wasted your money, you have to buy Win 7 again to get back to where
you were. It doesn't seem right to me.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

[Robin Bignall]

On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 23:48:05 -0500, "..winston" >
wrote:

>That's not how it works if you wish to go back to the previous o/s and switch back to your previous o/s license.
>
>The upgrade license has this provision:
>"You may transfer the software to another computer that belongs to you. … You may not transfer the software to share licenses
>between computers."
>
>i.e. Restoring an image is fine and it should remain activated or reinstalling the prior o/s from CD/DVD may activate, if not, then
>one has to attempt to activate by phone or over the phone with the help of a MSFT representative. In some cases the contacting a
>live person may not be necessary (just answer the questions)...if a person is required then explain the situation to gain approval
>(it would be a good idea for the approach to be clear and non abrasive <g>).
>- Once done, the Win8 license can be used on another machine (or yours that qualifies for the upgrade) or a [refund requested]*.
>
Thanks, Winston. This answers my question. The problem is that my Win
8 installation broke down before it showed the licence page (agree or
disagree) so I never saw the Ts and Cs.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

[Robin Bignall]

On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:51:50 -0700, fritz > wrote:

>On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 01:14:58 +0000, Robin Bignall
> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 18:04:12 -0700, fritz > wrote:
>
>>>On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 01:17:56 +0000, Robin Bignall
> wrote:
>>>>I'm now glad that the Win 8 installation failed.
>
>>>My installation failed, too. Must be catching.
>>>
>>>Guess it didn't like how my Win7 is configured. Have to guess since
>>>it didn't say why it failed.
>>> ...
>
>>I know why mine failed, but you might try running the Win 8 Upgrade
>>Advisor
>>http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/upgrade-to-windows-8
>>
>>It will examine Win 7 and list all of the (potential) problems.
>
>The advisor determines _some_ of the potential problems. The problems
>determined with my computer were all software things and I uninstalled
>all of those programs. So, I was then beyond the advisor and into the
>installer and attempted to do a "keep files and settings" type
>upgrade. That failed after about 15 minutes of doing whatever it does
>- there were a couple of restarts and was doing things one would
>expect. Then there was an announcement that it couldn't install and
>would put back what was originally there. (to clarify for ..winston:
>as I said, the screen that announcement was on was blue... you know,
>like all the install screens are various colors - this one just
>happened to be blue - having to explain that takes all the fun out)
>
>After all that, I made an ISO file and burned a DVD in order to do
>clean install. The install went as expected. The results, however,
>made me shake my head in wonder. Not to badmouth Win8, let's just say
>that within one hour I threw in my True Image startup disk and
>restored the Win7 image made prior this exercise.

Well well, you would think that after 15 minutes it would be happy with
what it was doing. Thank you for the info. I just received a message
telling me that the Windows 8 vendor will refund my payment after I
returned it as uninstallable on my system.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

[Rob]

On 14/11/2012 6:28 AM, Robin Bignall wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:51:50 -0700, fritz > wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 01:14:58 +0000, Robin Bignall
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 18:04:12 -0700, fritz > wrote:
>>
>>>> On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 01:17:56 +0000, Robin Bignall
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> I'm now glad that the Win 8 installation failed.
>>
>>>> My installation failed, too. Must be catching.
>>>>
>>>> Guess it didn't like how my Win7 is configured. Have to guess since
>>>> it didn't say why it failed.
>>>> ...
>>
>>> I know why mine failed, but you might try running the Win 8 Upgrade
>>> Advisor
>>> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/upgrade-to-windows-8
>>>
>>> It will examine Win 7 and list all of the (potential) problems.
>>
>> The advisor determines _some_ of the potential problems. The problems
>> determined with my computer were all software things and I uninstalled
>> all of those programs. So, I was then beyond the advisor and into the
>> installer and attempted to do a "keep files and settings" type
>> upgrade. That failed after about 15 minutes of doing whatever it does
>> - there were a couple of restarts and was doing things one would
>> expect. Then there was an announcement that it couldn't install and
>> would put back what was originally there. (to clarify for ..winston:
>> as I said, the screen that announcement was on was blue... you know,
>> like all the install screens are various colors - this one just
>> happened to be blue - having to explain that takes all the fun out)
>>
>> After all that, I made an ISO file and burned a DVD in order to do
>> clean install. The install went as expected. The results, however,
>> made me shake my head in wonder. Not to badmouth Win8, let's just say
>> that within one hour I threw in my True Image startup disk and
>> restored the Win7 image made prior this exercise.
>
> Well well, you would think that after 15 minutes it would be happy with
> what it was doing. Thank you for the info. I just received a message
> telling me that the Windows 8 vendor will refund my payment after I
> returned it as uninstallable on my system.
>

Do you think that it may have some left over programme information in
the system folder (dll's) which was not uninstalled?

As far as I can see a clean install is the best method.

[Paul]

Rob wrote:
> On 14/11/2012 6:28 AM, Robin Bignall wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:51:50 -0700, fritz > wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 01:14:58 +0000, Robin Bignall
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 18:04:12 -0700, fritz > wrote:
>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 01:17:56 +0000, Robin Bignall
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> I'm now glad that the Win 8 installation failed.
>>>
>>>>> My installation failed, too. Must be catching.
>>>>>
>>>>> Guess it didn't like how my Win7 is configured. Have to guess since
>>>>> it didn't say why it failed.
>>>>> ...
>>>
>>>> I know why mine failed, but you might try running the Win 8 Upgrade
>>>> Advisor
>>>> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/upgrade-to-windows-8
>>>>
>>>> It will examine Win 7 and list all of the (potential) problems.
>>>
>>> The advisor determines _some_ of the potential problems. The problems
>>> determined with my computer were all software things and I uninstalled
>>> all of those programs. So, I was then beyond the advisor and into the
>>> installer and attempted to do a "keep files and settings" type
>>> upgrade. That failed after about 15 minutes of doing whatever it does
>>> - there were a couple of restarts and was doing things one would
>>> expect. Then there was an announcement that it couldn't install and
>>> would put back what was originally there. (to clarify for ..winston:
>>> as I said, the screen that announcement was on was blue... you know,
>>> like all the install screens are various colors - this one just
>>> happened to be blue - having to explain that takes all the fun out)
>>>
>>> After all that, I made an ISO file and burned a DVD in order to do
>>> clean install. The install went as expected. The results, however,
>>> made me shake my head in wonder. Not to badmouth Win8, let's just say
>>> that within one hour I threw in my True Image startup disk and
>>> restored the Win7 image made prior this exercise.
>>
>> Well well, you would think that after 15 minutes it would be happy with
>> what it was doing. Thank you for the info. I just received a message
>> telling me that the Windows 8 vendor will refund my payment after I
>> returned it as uninstallable on my system.
>>
>
> Do you think that it may have some left over programme information in
> the system folder (dll's) which was not uninstalled?
>
> As far as I can see a clean install is the best method.

I could be wrong, but isn't the idea that Windows becomes Windows.old,
implying the new OS installer picks and chooses what to copy over ?
On an upgrade, there should be a Windows.old.

If a mistake is being made, it's probably in the choice of what to
copy over (as a means of preserving the programs the user had
previously installed). At least, for those from->to OS cases
for which an upgrade type install is supported. Which in this
case is likely Win7->Win8.

I suppose a person could do an upgrade install, then make a file
listing of what the end-state of the system is. Then, do a clean
install and again, list the files after it's over. The store
state should be different (since user programs aren't in the clean
install yet). The registry should be a lot lighter. But in terms
of DLLs, I would hope with the exception of some DLL put there
by an application, the two systems would be pretty close to
one another. If the two installs were divergent in terms
of DLLs, I'd have to wonder why...

Paul

[Rob]

On 21/11/2012 2:23 PM, Paul wrote:
> Rob wrote:
>> On 14/11/2012 6:28 AM, Robin Bignall wrote:
>>> On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:51:50 -0700, fritz > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 01:14:58 +0000, Robin Bignall
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 18:04:12 -0700, fritz > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 01:17:56 +0000, Robin Bignall
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>> I'm now glad that the Win 8 installation failed.
>>>>
>>>>>> My installation failed, too. Must be catching.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Guess it didn't like how my Win7 is configured. Have to guess since
>>>>>> it didn't say why it failed.
>>>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> I know why mine failed, but you might try running the Win 8 Upgrade
>>>>> Advisor
>>>>> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/upgrade-to-windows-8
>>>>>
>>>>> It will examine Win 7 and list all of the (potential) problems.
>>>>
>>>> The advisor determines _some_ of the potential problems. The problems
>>>> determined with my computer were all software things and I uninstalled
>>>> all of those programs. So, I was then beyond the advisor and into the
>>>> installer and attempted to do a "keep files and settings" type
>>>> upgrade. That failed after about 15 minutes of doing whatever it does
>>>> - there were a couple of restarts and was doing things one would
>>>> expect. Then there was an announcement that it couldn't install and
>>>> would put back what was originally there. (to clarify for ..winston:
>>>> as I said, the screen that announcement was on was blue... you know,
>>>> like all the install screens are various colors - this one just
>>>> happened to be blue - having to explain that takes all the fun out)
>>>>
>>>> After all that, I made an ISO file and burned a DVD in order to do
>>>> clean install. The install went as expected. The results, however,
>>>> made me shake my head in wonder. Not to badmouth Win8, let's just say
>>>> that within one hour I threw in my True Image startup disk and
>>>> restored the Win7 image made prior this exercise.
>>>
>>> Well well, you would think that after 15 minutes it would be happy with
>>> what it was doing. Thank you for the info. I just received a message
>>> telling me that the Windows 8 vendor will refund my payment after I
>>> returned it as uninstallable on my system.
>>>
>>
>> Do you think that it may have some left over programme information in
>> the system folder (dll's) which was not uninstalled?
>>
>> As far as I can see a clean install is the best method.
>
> I could be wrong, but isn't the idea that Windows becomes Windows.old,
> implying the new OS installer picks and chooses what to copy over ?
> On an upgrade, there should be a Windows.old.
>
> If a mistake is being made, it's probably in the choice of what to
> copy over (as a means of preserving the programs the user had
> previously installed). At least, for those from->to OS cases
> for which an upgrade type install is supported. Which in this
> case is likely Win7->Win8.
>
> I suppose a person could do an upgrade install, then make a file
> listing of what the end-state of the system is. Then, do a clean
> install and again, list the files after it's over. The store
> state should be different (since user programs aren't in the clean
> install yet). The registry should be a lot lighter. But in terms
> of DLLs, I would hope with the exception of some DLL put there
> by an application, the two systems would be pretty close to
> one another. If the two installs were divergent in terms
> of DLLs, I'd have to wonder why...
>
> Paul


What has been left over, and I just said Dll's as an example, may not
have anything to do with the OS -

I tried twice to copy over W7 before it "took' and installed. But would
have preferred a clean install.

I bought a system builders disk to do my installs from now on. Using the
default key and buying extra keys from MS when necessary. I can still
do an update over W7 with the OEM disk. (You can get all the default
keys off the MS site BTW.)

I want to clear my PC of unnecessary programmes that are now outdated,
free up disk space and have efficiency, not something sluggish.

[BillW50]

On 11/20/2012 9:23 PM, Paul wrote:
> I could be wrong, but isn't the idea that Windows becomes Windows.old,
> implying the new OS installer picks and chooses what to copy over ?
> On an upgrade, there should be a Windows.old.

I got an interesting surprise doing this upgrade. Not only did I get a
Windows.old folder, but I also ended up with a $WINDOWS.~BT folder.
Which is actually a leftover from Windows temporary installation files
and is 1.22GB in size.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8

[Paul]

BillW50 wrote:
> On 11/20/2012 9:23 PM, Paul wrote:
>> I could be wrong, but isn't the idea that Windows becomes Windows.old,
>> implying the new OS installer picks and chooses what to copy over ?
>> On an upgrade, there should be a Windows.old.
>
> I got an interesting surprise doing this upgrade. Not only did I get a
> Windows.old folder, but I also ended up with a $WINDOWS.~BT folder.
> Which is actually a leftover from Windows temporary installation files
> and is 1.22GB in size.
>

And on a Disk Cleanup, which one or both of those, did it remove ?

Paul

[Robin Bignall]

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 13:29:05 +1100, Rob >
wrote:

>On 14/11/2012 6:28 AM, Robin Bignall wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:51:50 -0700, fritz > wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 01:14:58 +0000, Robin Bignall
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 18:04:12 -0700, fritz > wrote:
>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 01:17:56 +0000, Robin Bignall
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> I'm now glad that the Win 8 installation failed.
>>>
>>>>> My installation failed, too. Must be catching.
>>>>>
>>>>> Guess it didn't like how my Win7 is configured. Have to guess since
>>>>> it didn't say why it failed.
>>>>> ...
>>>
>>>> I know why mine failed, but you might try running the Win 8 Upgrade
>>>> Advisor
>>>> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/upgrade-to-windows-8
>>>>
>>>> It will examine Win 7 and list all of the (potential) problems.
>>>
>>> The advisor determines _some_ of the potential problems. The problems
>>> determined with my computer were all software things and I uninstalled
>>> all of those programs. So, I was then beyond the advisor and into the
>>> installer and attempted to do a "keep files and settings" type
>>> upgrade. That failed after about 15 minutes of doing whatever it does
>>> - there were a couple of restarts and was doing things one would
>>> expect. Then there was an announcement that it couldn't install and
>>> would put back what was originally there. (to clarify for ..winston:
>>> as I said, the screen that announcement was on was blue... you know,
>>> like all the install screens are various colors - this one just
>>> happened to be blue - having to explain that takes all the fun out)
>>>
>>> After all that, I made an ISO file and burned a DVD in order to do
>>> clean install. The install went as expected. The results, however,
>>> made me shake my head in wonder. Not to badmouth Win8, let's just say
>>> that within one hour I threw in my True Image startup disk and
>>> restored the Win7 image made prior this exercise.
>>
>> Well well, you would think that after 15 minutes it would be happy with
>> what it was doing. Thank you for the info. I just received a message
>> telling me that the Windows 8 vendor will refund my payment after I
>> returned it as uninstallable on my system.
>>
>
>Do you think that it may have some left over programme information in
>the system folder (dll's) which was not uninstalled?
>
>As far as I can see a clean install is the best method.

First, there is no windows.old on my Win 7 disk, so whatever the Win 8
installer did hasn't left any noticeable traces, not even an empty file
that the installer would fill as part of the install process.
Second, I found the clean install I had to do to get from XP to Win 7 an
irksome process. It was *greatly* helped by use of Windows East
Transfer.

But from what I've read, people upgrading to Win 8 have reported that it
transferred applications well, provided one ran the upgrade assistant
and took care of the incompatibilities.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

[BillW50]

On 11/21/2012 12:47 PM, Paul wrote:
> BillW50 wrote:
>> On 11/20/2012 9:23 PM, Paul wrote:
>>> I could be wrong, but isn't the idea that Windows becomes Windows.old,
>>> implying the new OS installer picks and chooses what to copy over ?
>>> On an upgrade, there should be a Windows.old.
>>
>> I got an interesting surprise doing this upgrade. Not only did I get a
>> Windows.old folder, but I also ended up with a $WINDOWS.~BT folder.
>> Which is actually a leftover from Windows temporary installation files
>> and is 1.22GB in size.
>>
>
> And on a Disk Cleanup, which one or both of those, did it remove ?
>
> Paul

Yup, Disk Cleanup had taken it right out. I did try connecting the disk
drive up to a XP machine through an USB adapter first. But XP said it
was in use and wouldn't touch it. Normally I would boot up BartPE and it
shouldn't have a problem removing anything. I could still try BartPE on
my cloned backup drive. ;-)

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 7 SP1

[BillW50]

On 11/21/2012 1:58 PM, Robin Bignall wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 13:29:05 +1100, >
> wrote:
>
>> On 14/11/2012 6:28 AM, Robin Bignall wrote:
>> As far as I can see a clean install is the best method.
>
> First, there is no windows.old on my Win 7 disk, so whatever the Win 8
> installer did hasn't left any noticeable traces, not even an empty file
> that the installer would fill as part of the install process.
> Second, I found the clean install I had to do to get from XP to Win 7 an
> irksome process. It was *greatly* helped by use of Windows East
> Transfer.
>
> But from what I've read, people upgrading to Win 8 have reported that it
> transferred applications well, provided one ran the upgrade assistant
> and took care of the incompatibilities.

I did a number of tests and I tried a fresh install and that worked fine
and no Windows.old folder. And if you do a full upgrade (using Windows
7), you get Windows.old. And upgrading XP does the same as a fresh
install, except for the Fast Transfer part. And I had zero problems with
a full upgrade (unlike some). And I never ran upgrade assistant either.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 7 SP1

[Robin Bignall]

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:20:00 -0600, BillW50 > wrote:

>On 11/21/2012 1:58 PM, Robin Bignall wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 13:29:05 +1100, >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 14/11/2012 6:28 AM, Robin Bignall wrote:
>>> As far as I can see a clean install is the best method.
>>
>> First, there is no windows.old on my Win 7 disk, so whatever the Win 8
>> installer did hasn't left any noticeable traces, not even an empty file
>> that the installer would fill as part of the install process.
>> Second, I found the clean install I had to do to get from XP to Win 7 an
>> irksome process. It was *greatly* helped by use of Windows East
>> Transfer.
>>
>> But from what I've read, people upgrading to Win 8 have reported that it
>> transferred applications well, provided one ran the upgrade assistant
>> and took care of the incompatibilities.
>
>I did a number of tests and I tried a fresh install and that worked fine
>and no Windows.old folder. And if you do a full upgrade (using Windows
>7), you get Windows.old. And upgrading XP does the same as a fresh
>install, except for the Fast Transfer part. And I had zero problems with
>a full upgrade (unlike some). And I never ran upgrade assistant either.

Fairy Nuff. I started a clean install on an old empty disk just to
check that I hadn't got a duff Win 8 install disk, and killed it after a
few minutes. I just didn't want to go through a clean install again
only a few weeks after I'd done it for XP ==> Win 7.
I think a clean install wipes everything from the disk it's installing
on (it warns you) and does not make a windows.old. You could install it
over anything or nothing: it doesn't care.

--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

[BillW50]

On 11/21/2012 4:10 PM, Robin Bignall wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:20:00 -0600, > wrote:
>
>> On 11/21/2012 1:58 PM, Robin Bignall wrote:
>>> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 13:29:05 +1100, >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 14/11/2012 6:28 AM, Robin Bignall wrote:
>>>> As far as I can see a clean install is the best method.
>>>
>>> First, there is no windows.old on my Win 7 disk, so whatever the Win 8
>>> installer did hasn't left any noticeable traces, not even an empty file
>>> that the installer would fill as part of the install process.
>>> Second, I found the clean install I had to do to get from XP to Win 7 an
>>> irksome process. It was *greatly* helped by use of Windows East
>>> Transfer.
>>>
>>> But from what I've read, people upgrading to Win 8 have reported that it
>>> transferred applications well, provided one ran the upgrade assistant
>>> and took care of the incompatibilities.
>>
>> I did a number of tests and I tried a fresh install and that worked fine
>> and no Windows.old folder. And if you do a full upgrade (using Windows
>> 7), you get Windows.old. And upgrading XP does the same as a fresh
>> install, except for the Fast Transfer part. And I had zero problems with
>> a full upgrade (unlike some). And I never ran upgrade assistant either.
>
> Fairy Nuff. I started a clean install on an old empty disk just to
> check that I hadn't got a duff Win 8 install disk, and killed it after a
> few minutes. I just didn't want to go through a clean install again
> only a few weeks after I'd done it for XP ==> Win 7.
> I think a clean install wipes everything from the disk it's installing
> on (it warns you) and does not make a windows.old. You could install it
> over anything or nothing: it doesn't care.

Yup, this is the first Windows Upgrade I have ever purchased that
doesn't care of you have a qualifying previous Windows version or not. I
purchased the boxed set, btw. And this is the first Upgrade boxed set
that doesn't really say Upgrade on the box. But it will do upgrades too,
if you want it too.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8