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FDK
November 19th 12, 09:01 PM
Any good? On a desktop or laptop.

BillW50
November 19th 12, 10:24 PM
On 11/19/2012 2:01 PM, FDK wrote:
> Any good? On a desktop or laptop.

Seems to need about the same kind of machine that Windows 7 does. So if
you like Windows 7 on a given machine, performance with Windows 8 should
be just fine. I do miss the lack of gadgets under Windows 8 (they
removed the ability to have gadgets). There is a hack to get them
available once again (requires part of Windows 8 CP). But under Windows
8 CP still allowed gadgets and some of them had compatibility problems
anyway. And I would want gadgets compatible with Windows 8 and that
isn't likely to happen now.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8

John Doe
November 19th 12, 11:54 PM
"FDK" <fdk aol.com> wrote:

> Any good? On a desktop or laptop.

Maybe, if you are a very skilled user. If you know how to make
incremental backup copies of your installation. If you can
simultaneously keep a copy of your old installation for doing
stuff while you're testing Windows 8. That kind of thing.
Otherwise, if it isn't broke, don't fix it. If you don't have any
real problem with Windows 7, there is no reason to upgrade. If you
want to use it for your ultraportable personal computing devices,
it might be useful, as long as you have time and money to
potentially waste, and as long as you qualify with the above
suggestions.

If you were upgrading from XP, that might be different.

BillW50
November 20th 12, 12:03 AM
On 11/19/2012 4:54 PM, John Doe wrote:
> "FDK"<fdk aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Any good? On a desktop or laptop.
>
> Maybe, if you are a very skilled user. If you know how to make
> incremental backup copies of your installation. If you can
> simultaneously keep a copy of your old installation for doing
> stuff while you're testing Windows 8. That kind of thing.
> Otherwise, if it isn't broke, don't fix it. If you don't have any
> real problem with Windows 7, there is no reason to upgrade. If you
> want to use it for your ultraportable personal computing devices,
> it might be useful, as long as you have time and money to
> potentially waste, and as long as you qualify with the above
> suggestions.
>
> If you were upgrading from XP, that might be different.

Odd... everything you stated also applies to Windows XP users.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8

Drew[_3_]
November 20th 12, 01:36 AM
On 11/19/2012 12:01 PM, FDK wrote:
> Any good? On a desktop or laptop.
I would say it depends on the machine. My wife has HP Touchsmart IQ804
and windows 8 compliments it nicely! Pretty cool on a 26 inch screen!
Even though there are problems with it at the moment and Microsoft
support is working on it as it was upgraded from win7 home prem 64.
(I suspect a driver of some sort as it functions perfectly in safe
mode). Under normal startup it black screens after a few hrs. Let me
tell you that is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. Why would
you not still use a blue screen with a error message? Now my machine is
a high end custom built desktop with no touch ability and my copy of win
7 pro 64 screams and I really do not see my self changing it anytime
soon. I may wait for "9" or eventually win 8 with classic shell or
something.Just my 3 cents.

Drew.

Marv
November 20th 12, 01:43 AM
On 11/19/2012 3:01 PM, FDK wrote:
> Any good? On a desktop or laptop.

I installed Windows 8 on a spare machine that was running 7. I like the
overall improvement in speed but do not see anything in the metro
interface that I don't already have with a program called "Fences" by
Stardock that I have used for a long time in Windows 7. Allows me to
create icons on the desktop in groups and is far easier to manipulate
that with thee metro groups and icons.

I constantly fight the system in trying to get to the metro screen. I
need to slide the cursor to the top right of the screen a half dozen
times to get the charms screen to come up.

The other major disappointment for me is trying to find all of the
system features that I have used in the past. I haven't decided yet
whether to install it on my main system.

Robin Bignall
November 20th 12, 01:51 AM
On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 16:36:41 -0800, Drew >
wrote:

>On 11/19/2012 12:01 PM, FDK wrote:
>> Any good? On a desktop or laptop.
>I would say it depends on the machine. My wife has HP Touchsmart IQ804
>and windows 8 compliments it nicely! Pretty cool on a 26 inch screen!
>Even though there are problems with it at the moment and Microsoft
>support is working on it as it was upgraded from win7 home prem 64.
>(I suspect a driver of some sort as it functions perfectly in safe
>mode). Under normal startup it black screens after a few hrs. Let me
>tell you that is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. Why would
>you not still use a blue screen with a error message? Now my machine is
>a high end custom built desktop with no touch ability and my copy of win
>7 pro 64 screams and I really do not see my self changing it anytime
>soon. I may wait for "9" or eventually win 8 with classic shell or
>something.Just my 3 cents.
>
+1 for the feelings about W7 vs W8 on desktop.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

Paul
November 20th 12, 02:02 AM
Drew wrote:
> On 11/19/2012 12:01 PM, FDK wrote:
>> Any good? On a desktop or laptop.
> I would say it depends on the machine. My wife has HP Touchsmart IQ804
> and windows 8 compliments it nicely! Pretty cool on a 26 inch screen!
> Even though there are problems with it at the moment and Microsoft
> support is working on it as it was upgraded from win7 home prem 64.
> (I suspect a driver of some sort as it functions perfectly in safe
> mode). Under normal startup it black screens after a few hrs. Let me
> tell you that is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. Why would
> you not still use a blue screen with a error message? Now my machine is
> a high end custom built desktop with no touch ability and my copy of win
> 7 pro 64 screams and I really do not see my self changing it anytime
> soon. I may wait for "9" or eventually win 8 with classic shell or
> something.Just my 3 cents.
>
> Drew.

Yes, that black screen is a dumb idea. "My kingdom for a hex dump".

That was done, in my opinion, so Windows 8 could be used in kiosks,
without the embarrassment to Microsoft, of a public BSOD showing
in public areas. Like seeing some screen at the airport, crashed
in Windows. By just using a black screen, the public will assume
a hardware failure has happened.

With the black screen problem, you're left to find a log file or
a .dmp file or something of that nature. By default, Microsoft
sends a report to itself, robbing you of the ability to get
as much debug info as possible. So in some cases, it requires
configuring the equivalent of Dr. Watson, to give a .dmp rather
than just sending a report to Microsoft. I had to make a mod like
that to my Windows 7 machine, when making BSODs on purpose for
testing. It's a really user-unfriendly approach. The error
info should always be available to the end user - not just
some corporation somewhere. We're the people most likely
to resolve the problem (at our end). Who wants to wait six
months for a patch to come out ?

I saw my first Windows 8 black screens, while installing the
first Windows 8 release, into VirtualBox. And that's when I
discovered what a pig it was. I eventually guessed at a solution,
and the thing worked. I'm not going to get that lucky every time.

Paul

FDK
November 20th 12, 03:15 AM
"Marv" wrote in message ...

On 11/19/2012 3:01 PM, FDK wrote:
> Any good? On a desktop or laptop.

>I installed Windows 8 on a spare machine that was running 7. I like
>the overall improvement in speed but do not see anything in the metro
>interface that I don't already have with a program called "Fences" by
>Stardock that I have used for a long time in Windows 7. Allows me to
>create icons on the desktop in groups and is far easier to manipulate
>that with thee metro groups and icons.

Something like Tandy Deskmate.

>I constantly fight the system in trying to get to the metro screen. I
>need to slide the cursor to the top right of the screen a half dozen
>times to get the charms screen to come up.

>The other major disappointment for me is trying to find all of the
>system features that I have used in the past. I haven't decided yet
>whether to install it on my main system.

R. C. White
November 20th 12, 03:24 AM
Hi, Marv.

> I constantly fight the system in trying to get to the metro screen. I need
> to slide the cursor to the top right of the screen a half dozen times to
> get the charms screen to come up.

Takes a little practice - and a slight change in technique. The mouse needs
to go completely off-screen - or to the very edge of the screen. Bottom
right works as well as top right. Don't try to finesse the move and stop at
the edge; just boldly run the mouse right off the screen, then pause just a
moment. Be careful in bringing the pointer back onscreen; just a little too
far and the charms disappear and you'll have to do it again. When the
charms appear, if I move the cursor up (or down) the edge of the screen an
inch or two the charms bar will turn black and the clock tile will appear in
the lower left of my screen.

It took me a while to learn to not bring the cursor back onto the screen
after I run it into or off the upper or lower left corner. After the little
icon appeared, from habit I would always bring the cursor back to click on
the icon - but that makes the icon disappear. I have to click in the very
corner without moving the mouse back onscreen.

As Kreed said, the Windows key works to toggle between Desktop and Metro.
Good old <Alt>+<Tab> still works, too. And you don't need the bar's Start
charm, even with the mouse: just click in the lower left corner of the
screen..

The more I use Win8, the more "hidden" secrets I find. The first day - the
first MONTH - I was frustrated, but it has been getting better since then.
I still miss the Start Bar, but I'm getting the Start Menu tweaked to fit me
better and I'm more comfy with it now.

RC
-- --
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3505.0912) in Win8


"Marv" wrote in message ...

On 11/19/2012 3:01 PM, FDK wrote:
> Any good? On a desktop or laptop.

I installed Windows 8 on a spare machine that was running 7. I like the
overall improvement in speed but do not see anything in the metro
interface that I don't already have with a program called "Fences" by
Stardock that I have used for a long time in Windows 7. Allows me to
create icons on the desktop in groups and is far easier to manipulate
that with thee metro groups and icons.

I constantly fight the system in trying to get to the metro screen. I
need to slide the cursor to the top right of the screen a half dozen
times to get the charms screen to come up.

The other major disappointment for me is trying to find all of the
system features that I have used in the past. I haven't decided yet
whether to install it on my main system.

charlie[_2_]
November 20th 12, 04:57 AM
On 11/19/2012 3:01 PM, FDK wrote:
> Any good? On a desktop or laptop.
Why bother. Win 7 even has touchscreen functions.

Ashton Crusher[_2_]
November 20th 12, 05:58 AM
On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 20:24:14 -0600, "R. C. White" >
wrote:

>Hi, Marv.
>
>> I constantly fight the system in trying to get to the metro screen. I need
>> to slide the cursor to the top right of the screen a half dozen times to
>> get the charms screen to come up.
>
>Takes a little practice - and a slight change in technique. The mouse needs
>to go completely off-screen - or to the very edge of the screen. Bottom
>right works as well as top right. Don't try to finesse the move and stop at
>the edge; just boldly run the mouse right off the screen, then pause just a
>moment. Be careful in bringing the pointer back onscreen; just a little too
>far and the charms disappear and you'll have to do it again. When the
>charms appear, if I move the cursor up (or down) the edge of the screen an
>inch or two the charms bar will turn black and the clock tile will appear in
>the lower left of my screen.
>
>It took me a while to learn to not bring the cursor back onto the screen
>after I run it into or off the upper or lower left corner. After the little
>icon appeared, from habit I would always bring the cursor back to click on
>the icon - but that makes the icon disappear. I have to click in the very
>corner without moving the mouse back onscreen.
>
>As Kreed said, the Windows key works to toggle between Desktop and Metro.
>Good old <Alt>+<Tab> still works, too. And you don't need the bar's Start
>charm, even with the mouse: just click in the lower left corner of the
>screen..
>
>The more I use Win8, the more "hidden" secrets I find. The first day - the
>first MONTH - I was frustrated, but it has been getting better since then.
>I still miss the Start Bar, but I'm getting the Start Menu tweaked to fit me
>better and I'm more comfy with it now.
>
>RC

I see people who say similar things, that they are getting used to it.
What I don't see is anyone who liked and used Win7 on the desktop
saying anything specific as to why Win8 is actually better then Win7
was. I bought Win8 but haven't installed it as I am waiting to see
someone say something indication an improvement in some at least
marginally significant area.

BillW50
November 20th 12, 12:52 PM
On 11/19/2012 10:58 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
> I see people who say similar things, that they are getting used to it.
> What I don't see is anyone who liked and used Win7 on the desktop
> saying anything specific as to why Win8 is actually better then Win7
> was. I bought Win8 but haven't installed it as I am waiting to see
> someone say something indication an improvement in some at least
> marginally significant area.

Oh I see. Okay maybe this will help.

Features new to Windows 8 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_8

Although you also lose some good things going too Windows 8 too.

List of features removed in Windows 8 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_8

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8

Alias[_43_]
November 20th 12, 03:04 PM
On 11/20/2012 12:52 PM, BillW50 wrote:
> On 11/19/2012 10:58 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
>> I see people who say similar things, that they are getting used to it.
>> What I don't see is anyone who liked and used Win7 on the desktop
>> saying anything specific as to why Win8 is actually better then Win7
>> was. I bought Win8 but haven't installed it as I am waiting to see
>> someone say something indication an improvement in some at least
>> marginally significant area.
>
> Oh I see. Okay maybe this will help.
>
> Features new to Windows 8 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_8
>
> Although you also lose some good things going too Windows 8 too.
>
> List of features removed in Windows 8 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_8
>

Windows 8 will join Vista and Me as another flop.

--
Alias

BillW50
November 20th 12, 03:33 PM
On 11/19/2012 8:24 PM, R. C. White wrote:
> Hi, Marv.
>
>> I constantly fight the system in trying to get to the metro screen. I
>> need to slide the cursor to the top right of the screen a half dozen
>> times to get the charms screen to come up.
>
> Takes a little practice - and a slight change in technique. The mouse
> needs to go completely off-screen - or to the very edge of the screen.
> Bottom right works as well as top right. Don't try to finesse the move
> and stop at the edge; just boldly run the mouse right off the screen,
> then pause just a moment. Be careful in bringing the pointer back
> onscreen; just a little too far and the charms disappear and you'll have
> to do it again. When the charms appear, if I move the cursor up (or
> down) the edge of the screen an inch or two the charms bar will turn
> black and the clock tile will appear in the lower left of my screen.
>
> It took me a while to learn to not bring the cursor back onto the screen
> after I run it into or off the upper or lower left corner. After the
> little icon appeared, from habit I would always bring the cursor back to
> click on the icon - but that makes the icon disappear. I have to click
> in the very corner without moving the mouse back onscreen.
>
> As Kreed said, the Windows key works to toggle between Desktop and
> Metro. Good old <Alt>+<Tab> still works, too. And you don't need the
> bar's Start charm, even with the mouse: just click in the lower left
> corner of the screen..
>
> The more I use Win8, the more "hidden" secrets I find. The first day -
> the first MONTH - I was frustrated, but it has been getting better since
> then. I still miss the Start Bar, but I'm getting the Start Menu tweaked
> to fit me better and I'm more comfy with it now.
>
> RC

Some might want to use the keyboard to get to the charms bar (Win+C).
Here are a bunch of other Windows 8 keyboard shortcuts.

http://www.redmondpie.com/this-extensive-list-of-windows-8-keyboard-shortcuts-will-help-you-adapt-to-the-new-interface/

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8

Boris[_4_]
November 20th 12, 06:27 PM
Alias > wrote in news:k8g2lh$1uo$1@dont-
email.me:

> On 11/20/2012 12:52 PM, BillW50 wrote:
>> On 11/19/2012 10:58 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
>>> I see people who say similar things, that they are getting used to it.
>>> What I don't see is anyone who liked and used Win7 on the desktop
>>> saying anything specific as to why Win8 is actually better then Win7
>>> was. I bought Win8 but haven't installed it as I am waiting to see
>>> someone say something indication an improvement in some at least
>>> marginally significant area.
>>
>> Oh I see. Okay maybe this will help.
>>
>> Features new to Windows 8 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_8
>>
>> Although you also lose some good things going too Windows 8 too.
>>
>> List of features removed in Windows 8 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_8
>>
>
> Windows 8 will join Vista and Me as another flop.
>

My experience with Win8 is pretty much summed up here:

http://www.useit.com/alertbox/windows-8.html

For traditional desktop use, I'd stay with Win7/XP. For media and social
networking use, I'd (probably) go Win8.

BillW50
November 20th 12, 09:14 PM
On 11/20/2012 11:27 AM, Boris wrote:
> > wrote in news:k8g2lh$1uo$1@dont-
> email.me:
>
>> On 11/20/2012 12:52 PM, BillW50 wrote:
>>> On 11/19/2012 10:58 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
>>>> I see people who say similar things, that they are getting used to it.
>>>> What I don't see is anyone who liked and used Win7 on the desktop
>>>> saying anything specific as to why Win8 is actually better then Win7
>>>> was. I bought Win8 but haven't installed it as I am waiting to see
>>>> someone say something indication an improvement in some at least
>>>> marginally significant area.
>>>
>>> Oh I see. Okay maybe this will help.
>>>
>>> Features new to Windows 8 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_8
>>>
>>> Although you also lose some good things going too Windows 8 too.
>>>
>>> List of features removed in Windows 8 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_8
>>>
>>
>> Windows 8 will join Vista and Me as another flop.
>>
>
> My experience with Win8 is pretty much summed up here:
>
> http://www.useit.com/alertbox/windows-8.html
>
> For traditional desktop use, I'd stay with Win7/XP. For media and social
> networking use, I'd (probably) go Win8.

Oh not mine! I could see myself somewhat agreeing with that article when
I first started using Windows 8 back in March when I first started to
use Windows 8 CP. But that was a long time ago. As it seems to me they
really don't know how to use it well enough yet.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8

Mellowed[_2_]
November 23rd 12, 07:52 PM
On 11/20/2012 6:04 AM, Alias wrote:
>
> Windows 8 will join Vista and Me as another flop.
>
I would have to agree, at least for Desktop applications. However, I
have eliminated the Metro interface with the START8 application ($5),
and disabled the Charms bar, and some other mods (which I shouldn't have
had to do) and at the moment it is very acceptable on my laptop. In fact
I like it. It appears to be much faster than my Windows 7 on the same
machine.

With all the above being said, when asked I always advise to not upgrade
Win7 to Win 8. It's not worth the aggravation. I only (upgraded?) as a
project.

BTW, my home desktop has Vista and it operates reasonably well (most of
the time).

BillW50
November 23rd 12, 08:22 PM
On 11/23/2012 12:52 PM, Mellowed wrote:
> On 11/20/2012 6:04 AM, Alias wrote:
>>
>> Windows 8 will join Vista and Me as another flop.
>>
> I would have to agree, at least for Desktop applications. However, I
> have eliminated the Metro interface with the START8 application ($5),
> and disabled the Charms bar, and some other mods (which I shouldn't have
> had to do) and at the moment it is very acceptable on my laptop. In fact
> I like it. It appears to be much faster than my Windows 7 on the same
> machine.
>
> With all the above being said, when asked I always advise to not upgrade
> Win7 to Win 8. It's not worth the aggravation. I only (upgraded?) as a
> project.
>
> BTW, my home desktop has Vista and it operates reasonably well (most of
> the time).

I would have said the same early on when I first started to use Windows
8. But I have been running it since March and I feel totally differently
now. And I can disable charms, Start Screen, etc. with Aston Shell.
Although don't get too excited, Aston isn't totally Windows 8 compatible
yet.

Although once I started playing with the other side (Metro) and all of
the free Metro Apps out there, my thinking started to totally change.
For example that Unit Conversion App is one the best I have ever seen
under any platform. And this stuff is only going to get better.

Nowadays when I run Windows 7, it seems so dull and boring. As it only
has a desktop and that is it. Windows 8 has that too and a whole lot
more. Heck, I am beginning to wonder if the days of the desktop are
numbered? As I am finding myself using the desktop less and less
everyday. ;-)

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8

Ed Cryer
November 23rd 12, 08:33 PM
BillW50 wrote:
> On 11/23/2012 12:52 PM, Mellowed wrote:
>> On 11/20/2012 6:04 AM, Alias wrote:
>>>
>>> Windows 8 will join Vista and Me as another flop.
>>>
>> I would have to agree, at least for Desktop applications. However, I
>> have eliminated the Metro interface with the START8 application ($5),
>> and disabled the Charms bar, and some other mods (which I shouldn't have
>> had to do) and at the moment it is very acceptable on my laptop. In fact
>> I like it. It appears to be much faster than my Windows 7 on the same
>> machine.
>>
>> With all the above being said, when asked I always advise to not upgrade
>> Win7 to Win 8. It's not worth the aggravation. I only (upgraded?) as a
>> project.
>>
>> BTW, my home desktop has Vista and it operates reasonably well (most of
>> the time).
>
> I would have said the same early on when I first started to use Windows
> 8. But I have been running it since March and I feel totally differently
> now. And I can disable charms, Start Screen, etc. with Aston Shell.
> Although don't get too excited, Aston isn't totally Windows 8 compatible
> yet.
>
> Although once I started playing with the other side (Metro) and all of
> the free Metro Apps out there, my thinking started to totally change.
> For example that Unit Conversion App is one the best I have ever seen
> under any platform. And this stuff is only going to get better.
>
> Nowadays when I run Windows 7, it seems so dull and boring. As it only
> has a desktop and that is it. Windows 8 has that too and a whole lot
> more. Heck, I am beginning to wonder if the days of the desktop are
> numbered? As I am finding myself using the desktop less and less
> everyday. ;-)
>

You're probably right about desktops being on the way out.
I figure they're in the same situation as Newsgroups; something like this.
There was a time when you bought a computer, and Usenet was almost part
of the package. But now it's mostly old-timers who've stayed on it;
younger people use Twitter, Facebook, Web Forums.
It's the same with desktops. When you look at smart tvs, tablets and
phones, 4G a-spreading, it seems very oldy-worldy to have a desktop
taking up space.
They're useful in libraries and other such centres.

Ed

Robin Bignall
November 23rd 12, 09:04 PM
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 19:33:19 +0000, Ed Cryer >
wrote:

>BillW50 wrote:
>> On 11/23/2012 12:52 PM, Mellowed wrote:
>>> On 11/20/2012 6:04 AM, Alias wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Windows 8 will join Vista and Me as another flop.
>>>>
>>> I would have to agree, at least for Desktop applications. However, I
>>> have eliminated the Metro interface with the START8 application ($5),
>>> and disabled the Charms bar, and some other mods (which I shouldn't have
>>> had to do) and at the moment it is very acceptable on my laptop. In fact
>>> I like it. It appears to be much faster than my Windows 7 on the same
>>> machine.
>>>
>>> With all the above being said, when asked I always advise to not upgrade
>>> Win7 to Win 8. It's not worth the aggravation. I only (upgraded?) as a
>>> project.
>>>
>>> BTW, my home desktop has Vista and it operates reasonably well (most of
>>> the time).
>>
>> I would have said the same early on when I first started to use Windows
>> 8. But I have been running it since March and I feel totally differently
>> now. And I can disable charms, Start Screen, etc. with Aston Shell.
>> Although don't get too excited, Aston isn't totally Windows 8 compatible
>> yet.
>>
>> Although once I started playing with the other side (Metro) and all of
>> the free Metro Apps out there, my thinking started to totally change.
>> For example that Unit Conversion App is one the best I have ever seen
>> under any platform. And this stuff is only going to get better.
>>
>> Nowadays when I run Windows 7, it seems so dull and boring. As it only
>> has a desktop and that is it. Windows 8 has that too and a whole lot
>> more. Heck, I am beginning to wonder if the days of the desktop are
>> numbered? As I am finding myself using the desktop less and less
>> everyday. ;-)
>>
>
>You're probably right about desktops being on the way out.
>I figure they're in the same situation as Newsgroups; something like this.
>There was a time when you bought a computer, and Usenet was almost part
>of the package. But now it's mostly old-timers who've stayed on it;
>younger people use Twitter, Facebook, Web Forums.

All this flash Harry, whiz-bang stuff...

>It's the same with desktops. When you look at smart tvs, tablets and
>phones, 4G a-spreading, it seems very oldy-worldy to have a desktop
>taking up space.

.... reminds me of the old adage "Little things amuse little minds" (with
no disrespect to present company).

>They're useful in libraries and other such centres.
>
And here! OK, I'm an old fogey.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

Bob Henson[_2_]
November 23rd 12, 09:38 PM
Robin Bignall wrote:

>>You're probably right about desktops being on the way out.
>>I figure they're in the same situation as Newsgroups; something like this.
>>There was a time when you bought a computer, and Usenet was almost part
>>of the package. But now it's mostly old-timers who've stayed on it;
>>younger people use Twitter, Facebook, Web Forums.
>
> All this flash Harry, whiz-bang stuff...
>
>>It's the same with desktops. When you look at smart tvs, tablets and
>>phones, 4G a-spreading, it seems very oldy-worldy to have a desktop
>>taking up space.
>
> ... reminds me of the old adage "Little things amuse little minds" (with
> no disrespect to present company).
>
>>They're useful in libraries and other such centres.
>>
> And here! OK, I'm an old fogey.

Me too - fogeys (fogies?) of the world unite! I can't see industry/commerce
abandoning desktops any time soon, either. A fat lot of good an iPad would
be to an overworked secretary with a whole stack of typing to do.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

Work is the curse of the drinking classes.

BillW50
November 23rd 12, 09:39 PM
On 11/23/2012 2:04 PM, Robin Bignall wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 19:33:19 +0000, Ed >
> wrote:
>
>> BillW50 wrote:
>>> On 11/23/2012 12:52 PM, Mellowed wrote:
>>>> On 11/20/2012 6:04 AM, Alias wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Windows 8 will join Vista and Me as another flop.
>>>>>
>>>> I would have to agree, at least for Desktop applications. However, I
>>>> have eliminated the Metro interface with the START8 application ($5),
>>>> and disabled the Charms bar, and some other mods (which I shouldn't have
>>>> had to do) and at the moment it is very acceptable on my laptop. In fact
>>>> I like it. It appears to be much faster than my Windows 7 on the same
>>>> machine.
>>>>
>>>> With all the above being said, when asked I always advise to not upgrade
>>>> Win7 to Win 8. It's not worth the aggravation. I only (upgraded?) as a
>>>> project.
>>>>
>>>> BTW, my home desktop has Vista and it operates reasonably well (most of
>>>> the time).
>>>
>>> I would have said the same early on when I first started to use Windows
>>> 8. But I have been running it since March and I feel totally differently
>>> now. And I can disable charms, Start Screen, etc. with Aston Shell.
>>> Although don't get too excited, Aston isn't totally Windows 8 compatible
>>> yet.
>>>
>>> Although once I started playing with the other side (Metro) and all of
>>> the free Metro Apps out there, my thinking started to totally change.
>>> For example that Unit Conversion App is one the best I have ever seen
>>> under any platform. And this stuff is only going to get better.
>>>
>>> Nowadays when I run Windows 7, it seems so dull and boring. As it only
>>> has a desktop and that is it. Windows 8 has that too and a whole lot
>>> more. Heck, I am beginning to wonder if the days of the desktop are
>>> numbered? As I am finding myself using the desktop less and less
>>> everyday. ;-)
>>>
>>
>> You're probably right about desktops being on the way out.
>> I figure they're in the same situation as Newsgroups; something like this.
>> There was a time when you bought a computer, and Usenet was almost part
>> of the package. But now it's mostly old-timers who've stayed on it;
>> younger people use Twitter, Facebook, Web Forums.
>
> All this flash Harry, whiz-bang stuff...
>
>> It's the same with desktops. When you look at smart tvs, tablets and
>> phones, 4G a-spreading, it seems very oldy-worldy to have a desktop
>> taking up space.
>
> ... reminds me of the old adage "Little things amuse little minds" (with
> no disrespect to present company).
>
>> They're useful in libraries and other such centres.
>>
> And here! OK, I'm an old fogey.

Well here is another way to view all of this:

Why Jakob Nielsen's Windows 8 critique is old-school thinking
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57552860-75/why-jakob-nielsens-windows-8-critique-is-old-school-thinking/

Found this article while I was on the Metro side btw. ;-)

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8

BillW50
November 23rd 12, 10:07 PM
On 11/23/2012 2:38 PM, Bob Henson wrote:
> Robin Bignall wrote:
>
>>> You're probably right about desktops being on the way out.
>>> I figure they're in the same situation as Newsgroups; something like this.
>>> There was a time when you bought a computer, and Usenet was almost part
>>> of the package. But now it's mostly old-timers who've stayed on it;
>>> younger people use Twitter, Facebook, Web Forums.
>>
>> All this flash Harry, whiz-bang stuff...
>>
>>> It's the same with desktops. When you look at smart tvs, tablets and
>>> phones, 4G a-spreading, it seems very oldy-worldy to have a desktop
>>> taking up space.
>>
>> ... reminds me of the old adage "Little things amuse little minds" (with
>> no disrespect to present company).
>>
>>> They're useful in libraries and other such centres.
>>>
>> And here! OK, I'm an old fogey.
>
> Me too - fogeys (fogies?) of the world unite! I can't see industry/commerce
> abandoning desktops any time soon, either. A fat lot of good an iPad would
> be to an overworked secretary with a whole stack of typing to do.

Maybe this is another way to view this:

Why Jakob Nielsen's Windows 8 critique is old-school thinking
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57552860-75/why-jakob-nielsens-windows-8-critique-is-old-school-thinking/

I found this article while on the Metro side, btw. ;-)

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8

Robin Bignall
November 23rd 12, 10:28 PM
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 15:07:21 -0600, BillW50 > wrote:

>On 11/23/2012 2:38 PM, Bob Henson wrote:
>> Robin Bignall wrote:
>>
>>>> You're probably right about desktops being on the way out.
>>>> I figure they're in the same situation as Newsgroups; something like this.
>>>> There was a time when you bought a computer, and Usenet was almost part
>>>> of the package. But now it's mostly old-timers who've stayed on it;
>>>> younger people use Twitter, Facebook, Web Forums.
>>>
>>> All this flash Harry, whiz-bang stuff...
>>>
>>>> It's the same with desktops. When you look at smart tvs, tablets and
>>>> phones, 4G a-spreading, it seems very oldy-worldy to have a desktop
>>>> taking up space.
>>>
>>> ... reminds me of the old adage "Little things amuse little minds" (with
>>> no disrespect to present company).
>>>
>>>> They're useful in libraries and other such centres.
>>>>
>>> And here! OK, I'm an old fogey.
>>
>> Me too - fogeys (fogies?) of the world unite! I can't see industry/commerce
>> abandoning desktops any time soon, either. A fat lot of good an iPad would
>> be to an overworked secretary with a whole stack of typing to do.
>
>Maybe this is another way to view this:
>
>Why Jakob Nielsen's Windows 8 critique is old-school thinking
>http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57552860-75/why-jakob-nielsens-windows-8-critique-is-old-school-thinking/
>
>I found this article while on the Metro side, btw. ;-)

It's interesting. What's also interesting is Jobs saying that it's
Apple who should tell users what they want rather than the users
deciding.
An age ago in a far different world, IBM had that attitude, saying, in
effect, that what DP departments wanted was blue mainframes, lots of
them. And it worked for the decades between the announcement of
System/360 in the 1960s, right through to the end of the 1980s. Oh, IBM
made intermediate systems and PCs, too, and probably still holds more
computer-related patents than any other company, but mainframes were the
bread and butter, and the caviar.
By 1993 they had to decide between filing for bankruptcy (Chapter 11 is
it?) or hiring a real tough guy who had no sentimental attachment to
data processing at all, and in fact knew nothing about it.
They chose the latter, in Lew Gerstner (sp?) and the rest is history.
But they could so easily have gone under.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

BillW50
November 23rd 12, 11:16 PM
On 11/23/2012 3:28 PM, Robin Bignall wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 15:07:21 -0600, > wrote:
>
>> On 11/23/2012 2:38 PM, Bob Henson wrote:
>>> Robin Bignall wrote:
>>>
>>>>> You're probably right about desktops being on the way out.
>>>>> I figure they're in the same situation as Newsgroups; something like this.
>>>>> There was a time when you bought a computer, and Usenet was almost part
>>>>> of the package. But now it's mostly old-timers who've stayed on it;
>>>>> younger people use Twitter, Facebook, Web Forums.
>>>>
>>>> All this flash Harry, whiz-bang stuff...
>>>>
>>>>> It's the same with desktops. When you look at smart tvs, tablets and
>>>>> phones, 4G a-spreading, it seems very oldy-worldy to have a desktop
>>>>> taking up space.
>>>>
>>>> ... reminds me of the old adage "Little things amuse little minds" (with
>>>> no disrespect to present company).
>>>>
>>>>> They're useful in libraries and other such centres.
>>>>>
>>>> And here! OK, I'm an old fogey.
>>>
>>> Me too - fogeys (fogies?) of the world unite! I can't see industry/commerce
>>> abandoning desktops any time soon, either. A fat lot of good an iPad would
>>> be to an overworked secretary with a whole stack of typing to do.
>>
>> Maybe this is another way to view this:
>>
>> Why Jakob Nielsen's Windows 8 critique is old-school thinking
>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57552860-75/why-jakob-nielsens-windows-8-critique-is-old-school-thinking/
>>
>> I found this article while on the Metro side, btw. ;-)
>
> It's interesting. What's also interesting is Jobs saying that it's
> Apple who should tell users what they want rather than the users
> deciding.
> An age ago in a far different world, IBM had that attitude, saying, in
> effect, that what DP departments wanted was blue mainframes, lots of
> them. And it worked for the decades between the announcement of
> System/360 in the 1960s, right through to the end of the 1980s. Oh, IBM
> made intermediate systems and PCs, too, and probably still holds more
> computer-related patents than any other company, but mainframes were the
> bread and butter, and the caviar.
> By 1993 they had to decide between filing for bankruptcy (Chapter 11 is
> it?) or hiring a real tough guy who had no sentimental attachment to
> data processing at all, and in fact knew nothing about it.
> They chose the latter, in Lew Gerstner (sp?) and the rest is history.
> But they could so easily have gone under.

Yes I remember the story about IBM. Although IBM also made tons of
enemies as well. That never seems to pan out well. I also remember how
stubborn Gary Kildall was. As MS-DOS allowed using either CP/M like
commands or DEC like commands. DEC like commands were easier to remember
and use. Gary said it didn't matter, any half-wit could use CP/M
commands. While he was correct, it was still a multimillion dollar mistake.

It is funny that Microsoft was harassed for decades of making changes in
small baby steps. Kind of playing it safe I suppose, but not being very
innovative. And doing so, Microsoft has been downsizing lately. Clearly
doing business the same way isn't cutting it anymore. They need to do
something different. And they did, Windows 8 is the biggest change in
Windows since Windows 95.

Apple has grown lately while Microsoft has been shrinking. Apple does
this by giving people things they didn't know they needed. And clearly
in today's market, this is working. And now I see Microsoft giving it a
shot with Windows 8. Did Microsoft get it right? I am not sure. But time
will tell while Microsoft is kind of new at this being innovative game. ;-)

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8

Robin Bignall
November 24th 12, 02:02 AM
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 16:16:01 -0600, BillW50 > wrote:

>On 11/23/2012 3:28 PM, Robin Bignall wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 15:07:21 -0600, > wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/23/2012 2:38 PM, Bob Henson wrote:
>>>> Robin Bignall wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> You're probably right about desktops being on the way out.
>>>>>> I figure they're in the same situation as Newsgroups; something like this.
>>>>>> There was a time when you bought a computer, and Usenet was almost part
>>>>>> of the package. But now it's mostly old-timers who've stayed on it;
>>>>>> younger people use Twitter, Facebook, Web Forums.
>>>>>
>>>>> All this flash Harry, whiz-bang stuff...
>>>>>
>>>>>> It's the same with desktops. When you look at smart tvs, tablets and
>>>>>> phones, 4G a-spreading, it seems very oldy-worldy to have a desktop
>>>>>> taking up space.
>>>>>
>>>>> ... reminds me of the old adage "Little things amuse little minds" (with
>>>>> no disrespect to present company).
>>>>>
>>>>>> They're useful in libraries and other such centres.
>>>>>>
>>>>> And here! OK, I'm an old fogey.
>>>>
>>>> Me too - fogeys (fogies?) of the world unite! I can't see industry/commerce
>>>> abandoning desktops any time soon, either. A fat lot of good an iPad would
>>>> be to an overworked secretary with a whole stack of typing to do.
>>>
>>> Maybe this is another way to view this:
>>>
>>> Why Jakob Nielsen's Windows 8 critique is old-school thinking
>>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57552860-75/why-jakob-nielsens-windows-8-critique-is-old-school-thinking/
>>>
>>> I found this article while on the Metro side, btw. ;-)
>>
>> It's interesting. What's also interesting is Jobs saying that it's
>> Apple who should tell users what they want rather than the users
>> deciding.
>> An age ago in a far different world, IBM had that attitude, saying, in
>> effect, that what DP departments wanted was blue mainframes, lots of
>> them. And it worked for the decades between the announcement of
>> System/360 in the 1960s, right through to the end of the 1980s. Oh, IBM
>> made intermediate systems and PCs, too, and probably still holds more
>> computer-related patents than any other company, but mainframes were the
>> bread and butter, and the caviar.
>> By 1993 they had to decide between filing for bankruptcy (Chapter 11 is
>> it?) or hiring a real tough guy who had no sentimental attachment to
>> data processing at all, and in fact knew nothing about it.
>> They chose the latter, in Lew Gerstner (sp?) and the rest is history.
>> But they could so easily have gone under.
>
>Yes I remember the story about IBM. Although IBM also made tons of
>enemies as well. That never seems to pan out well. I also remember how
>stubborn Gary Kildall was. As MS-DOS allowed using either CP/M like
>commands or DEC like commands. DEC like commands were easier to remember
>and use. Gary said it didn't matter, any half-wit could use CP/M
>commands. While he was correct, it was still a multimillion dollar mistake.
>
>It is funny that Microsoft was harassed for decades of making changes in
>small baby steps. Kind of playing it safe I suppose, but not being very
>innovative. And doing so, Microsoft has been downsizing lately. Clearly
>doing business the same way isn't cutting it anymore. They need to do
>something different. And they did, Windows 8 is the biggest change in
>Windows since Windows 95.
>
>Apple has grown lately while Microsoft has been shrinking. Apple does
>this by giving people things they didn't know they needed. And clearly
>in today's market, this is working. And now I see Microsoft giving it a
>shot with Windows 8. Did Microsoft get it right? I am not sure. But time
>will tell while Microsoft is kind of new at this being innovative game. ;-)

That's for sure!
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

kreed
November 24th 12, 05:43 AM
There seems to be an assumption that everyone has suddenly got smart. Not
everyone can cope with a full blown PC. A lot of folk struggle with
programming a washing machine or setting a video recorder. For these people
I'm sure Facebook on an iPad or an Android is about as much as they can
manage, but don't let these people claim the PC is dead just because they
don't need one or can't use one.
K

Jdr[_5_]
November 24th 12, 03:18 PM
"Drew" wrote in message ...

On 11/19/2012 12:01 PM, FDK wrote:
> Any good? On a desktop or laptop.
I would say it depends on the machine. My wife has HP Touchsmart IQ804
and windows 8 compliments it nicely! Pretty cool on a 26 inch screen!

.......
Correct, the configuration of computer makes quite a difference.
Yesterday, on iMac 27''- very well specified, I have installed
Parallel and Windows 8. To my surprise Windows 8 works much
better on iMac than on Asus P8P67 with 16GB Memory and 1GB
video display. I dare to say that Windows 8 runs much better on
iMac configuration than on PC mother board, in this particular
case, and even I have Gadget with it, which are missing
from Windows 8 Pro.
Jdr
.....


Even though there are problems with it at the moment and Microsoft
support is working on it as it was upgraded from win7 home prem 64.
(I suspect a driver of some sort as it functions perfectly in safe
mode). Under normal startup it black screens after a few hrs. Let me
tell you that is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. Why would
you not still use a blue screen with a error message? Now my machine is
a high end custom built desktop with no touch ability and my copy of win
7 pro 64 screams and I really do not see my self changing it anytime
soon. I may wait for "9" or eventually win 8 with classic shell or
something.Just my 3 cents.

Drew.

charlie[_2_]
November 25th 12, 05:55 AM
On 11/24/2012 9:18 AM, Jdr wrote:
> Under normal startup it black screens after a few hr

Windows likely crashed to the point that the blue screen did not work.
Usually this is something like a video driver or serious hardware
problem. If you happen to be looking at the display as the machine
crashes, you may see some briefly shown video artifacts before the black
screen. With vista and win 7, some of the AMD and NVIDIA driver
versions had this sort of problem.
We suspected, but never proved, that the video processor chips had
production variations that originally caused the problem, and the video
drivers were eventually modified to work around the issues. Then there
were various driver programming errors and development platform issues
to contend with.

Drew[_3_]
November 29th 12, 02:16 AM
On 11/19/2012 4:36 PM, Drew wrote:
> On 11/19/2012 12:01 PM, FDK wrote:
>> Any good? On a desktop or laptop.
> I would say it depends on the machine. My wife has HP Touchsmart IQ804
> and windows 8 compliments it nicely! Pretty cool on a 26 inch screen!
> Even though there are problems with it at the moment and Microsoft
> support is working on it as it was upgraded from win7 home prem 64.
> (I suspect a driver of some sort as it functions perfectly in safe
> mode). Under normal startup it black screens after a few hrs. Let me
> tell you that is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. Why would
> you not still use a blue screen with a error message? Now my machine is
> a high end custom built desktop with no touch ability and my copy of win
> 7 pro 64 screams and I really do not see my self changing it anytime
> soon. I may wait for "9" or eventually win 8 with classic shell or
> something.Just my 3 cents.
>
> Drew.
Just a observation.. Since I installed win8 on my wife's HP touchsmart
IQ804 I have discovered that it does not work properly on it. This is a
4 year old touch screen pc that should work but HP in all its wisdom has
not and is not going to produce either a bios update and or chipset
update to accommodate windows 8. Microsoft worked on her computer for a
total of approx 8 hrs and could not get it stable with its current
setup. They finally figured that was a bios or driver problem (constant
black screens). Since then I have found that if I do not let it sleep or
hibernate it will stay working. I just have the screen set to turn off
at a given point. I think it is crap for a relatively high dollar (at
the time) 26 inch touchscreen pc to not be supported. I also think it is
a just a tad irritating that the upgrade advisor said it would work
fine. No exclamation points, no warnings at all. Unfortunately for me I
made the stupid mistake of downloading and installing win 8 pro without
checking HP first! I take the blame for that part but still "BE WARNED".

Andy
November 29th 12, 08:37 AM
How old is this pc and allot of pc's both touch and non touch screen don't
work well with windows 8 does that surprise you?
it doesn't with me.


--
AL'S COMPUTERS
"Drew" > wrote in message
...
> On 11/19/2012 4:36 PM, Drew wrote:
>> On 11/19/2012 12:01 PM, FDK wrote:
>>> Any good? On a desktop or laptop.
>> I would say it depends on the machine. My wife has HP Touchsmart IQ804
>> and windows 8 compliments it nicely! Pretty cool on a 26 inch screen!
>> Even though there are problems with it at the moment and Microsoft
>> support is working on it as it was upgraded from win7 home prem 64.
>> (I suspect a driver of some sort as it functions perfectly in safe
>> mode). Under normal startup it black screens after a few hrs. Let me
>> tell you that is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. Why would
>> you not still use a blue screen with a error message? Now my machine is
>> a high end custom built desktop with no touch ability and my copy of win
>> 7 pro 64 screams and I really do not see my self changing it anytime
>> soon. I may wait for "9" or eventually win 8 with classic shell or
>> something.Just my 3 cents.
>>
>> Drew.
> Just a observation.. Since I installed win8 on my wife's HP touchsmart
> IQ804 I have discovered that it does not work properly on it. This is a 4
> year old touch screen pc that should work but HP in all its wisdom has not
> and is not going to produce either a bios update and or chipset update to
> accommodate windows 8. Microsoft worked on her computer for a total of
> approx 8 hrs and could not get it stable with its current setup. They
> finally figured that was a bios or driver problem (constant black
> screens). Since then I have found that if I do not let it sleep or
> hibernate it will stay working. I just have the screen set to turn off at
> a given point. I think it is crap for a relatively high dollar (at the
> time) 26 inch touchscreen pc to not be supported. I also think it is a
> just a tad irritating that the upgrade advisor said it would work fine. No
> exclamation points, no warnings at all. Unfortunately for me I made the
> stupid mistake of downloading and installing win 8 pro without checking
> HP first! I take the blame for that part but still "BE WARNED".

Joe Morris
November 29th 12, 12:08 PM
> "Drew" > wrote:

>> I think it is crap for a relatively high dollar (at the time)
>> 26 inch touchscreen pc to not be supported. I also think it is a just a
>> tad irritating that the upgrade advisor said it would work fine. No
>> exclamation points, no warnings at all. Unfortunately for me I made the
>> stupid mistake of downloading and installing win 8 pro without checking
>> HP first! I take the blame for that part but still "BE WARNED".

If it's any consolation, consider the problems that are encountered by users
who purchased the original Microsoft Surface a few years ago. Its
touchscreen features are supported under Vista...period.

I did get something of a chuckle out of the situation, though. At my POE
surplus desktop and laptop systems not picked up by one of the labs goes to
an occasional auction to the staff. I had bought a Lenovo tablet at a time
when it looked like we would be moving in that direction (I own the
corporate Windows configuration specs); we didn't, and a couple of years
later I surplused the box. None of the labs picked it up so it went to
auction.

The humor? Our property tracking system has a limited field for the
description, and by chance the word "TABLET" at the end had the final "T"
clipped off. Watching the over-enthusiastic bidding I strongly suspect that
whoever paid top dollar for it thought he was getting a "TABLE" and not a
"TABLET" even though the box was clearly described as coming from Lenovo.

(BTW: the auction has a no-questions-asked 3-day return policy, so if he did
make that mistake he wasn't locked into the purchase.)

Joe

BillW50
November 29th 12, 12:22 PM
On 11/29/2012 5:08 AM, Joe Morris wrote:
>> > wrote:
>
>>> I think it is crap for a relatively high dollar (at the time)
>>> 26 inch touchscreen pc to not be supported. I also think it is a just a
>>> tad irritating that the upgrade advisor said it would work fine. No
>>> exclamation points, no warnings at all. Unfortunately for me I made the
>>> stupid mistake of downloading and installing win 8 pro without checking
>>> HP first! I take the blame for that part but still "BE WARNED".
>
> If it's any consolation, consider the problems that are encountered by users
> who purchased the original Microsoft Surface a few years ago. Its
> touchscreen features are supported under Vista...period.
>
> I did get something of a chuckle out of the situation, though. At my POE
> surplus desktop and laptop systems not picked up by one of the labs goes to
> an occasional auction to the staff. I had bought a Lenovo tablet at a time
> when it looked like we would be moving in that direction (I own the
> corporate Windows configuration specs); we didn't, and a couple of years
> later I surplused the box. None of the labs picked it up so it went to
> auction.
>
> The humor? Our property tracking system has a limited field for the
> description, and by chance the word "TABLET" at the end had the final "T"
> clipped off. Watching the over-enthusiastic bidding I strongly suspect that
> whoever paid top dollar for it thought he was getting a "TABLE" and not a
> "TABLET" even though the box was clearly described as coming from Lenovo.
>
> (BTW: the auction has a no-questions-asked 3-day return policy, so if he did
> make that mistake he wasn't locked into the purchase.)
>
> Joe

My new Dell Latitude ST (tablet) which is on order and I haven't got
yet, Dell originally said it will be Windows 8 compatible. They are
currently being sold by Dell and others with Windows 7 installed. And
now I am finding out that Dell doesn't and will never support Windows 8
on these tablets. This makes no sense to me at all. Yet these old
Gateways M465 will run XP, Vista, 7, and 8. Go figure!

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8

Paul
November 29th 12, 09:21 PM
BillW50 wrote:
> On 11/29/2012 5:08 AM, Joe Morris wrote:
>>> > wrote:
>>
>>>> I think it is crap for a relatively high dollar (at the
>>>> time)
>>>> 26 inch touchscreen pc to not be supported. I also think it is a just a
>>>> tad irritating that the upgrade advisor said it would work fine. No
>>>> exclamation points, no warnings at all. Unfortunately for me I made the
>>>> stupid mistake of downloading and installing win 8 pro without
>>>> checking
>>>> HP first! I take the blame for that part but still "BE WARNED".
>>
>> If it's any consolation, consider the problems that are encountered by
>> users
>> who purchased the original Microsoft Surface a few years ago. Its
>> touchscreen features are supported under Vista...period.
>>
>> I did get something of a chuckle out of the situation, though. At my POE
>> surplus desktop and laptop systems not picked up by one of the labs
>> goes to
>> an occasional auction to the staff. I had bought a Lenovo tablet at a
>> time
>> when it looked like we would be moving in that direction (I own the
>> corporate Windows configuration specs); we didn't, and a couple of years
>> later I surplused the box. None of the labs picked it up so it went to
>> auction.
>>
>> The humor? Our property tracking system has a limited field for the
>> description, and by chance the word "TABLET" at the end had the final "T"
>> clipped off. Watching the over-enthusiastic bidding I strongly
>> suspect that
>> whoever paid top dollar for it thought he was getting a "TABLE" and not a
>> "TABLET" even though the box was clearly described as coming from Lenovo.
>>
>> (BTW: the auction has a no-questions-asked 3-day return policy, so if
>> he did
>> make that mistake he wasn't locked into the purchase.)
>>
>> Joe
>
> My new Dell Latitude ST (tablet) which is on order and I haven't got
> yet, Dell originally said it will be Windows 8 compatible. They are
> currently being sold by Dell and others with Windows 7 installed. And
> now I am finding out that Dell doesn't and will never support Windows 8
> on these tablets. This makes no sense to me at all. Yet these old
> Gateways M465 will run XP, Vista, 7, and 8. Go figure!
>

It could be the level of multi-touch support, which makes them
"shy" to support Windows 8.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/03/28/touch-hardware-and-windows-8.aspx

"The touch language allows us to design a base user experience that
is optimized for touch and works well on every PC, whether it was
built originally for Windows 7 or for Windows 8. The fundamental gestures
require no more than *2 fingers*.

However it is important to note that 2 fingers can be very limiting for a
variety of applications. This is why Windows 8 PCs require digitizers that
support a minimum of *5 fingers*.

The reason we went in this direction is a response to developer feedback.
Developers do not want their creativity to be limited <--- !!!
and in particular, they let us know that they want to be free to use whichever
multi-finger gestures or controls are useful. They do not want requirements
for a minimum number of fingers that may not make sense for their application.

As such, we focused on a minimum of 5 fingers to enable scenarios like whole
hand interactions (all 5 fingers) or multi-finger/multi-hand scenarios. This
will address the feedback, and unlocks opportunities for developers to push
the envelope with multi-touch applications. So, while we ensure that the OS
works well with a Windows 7 PC, a new Windows 8 PC is going to be much more
consistent and predictable both from a user and developer perspective.
"

There's a list here, of the new devices as they come out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multi-touch_computers_and_monitors

Paul

BillW50
November 29th 12, 11:43 PM
In ,
Paul typed:
> BillW50 wrote:
>> On 11/29/2012 5:08 AM, Joe Morris wrote:
>>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I think it is crap for a relatively high dollar (at the
>>>>> time)
>>>>> 26 inch touchscreen pc to not be supported. I also think it is a
>>>>> just a tad irritating that the upgrade advisor said it would work
>>>>> fine. No exclamation points, no warnings at all. Unfortunately
>>>>> for me I made the stupid mistake of downloading and installing win
>>>>> 8 pro without checking
>>>>> HP first! I take the blame for that part but still "BE WARNED".
>>>
>>> If it's any consolation, consider the problems that are encountered
>>> by users
>>> who purchased the original Microsoft Surface a few years ago. Its
>>> touchscreen features are supported under Vista...period.
>>>
>>> I did get something of a chuckle out of the situation, though. At
>>> my POE surplus desktop and laptop systems not picked up by one of
>>> the labs goes to
>>> an occasional auction to the staff. I had bought a Lenovo tablet
>>> at a time
>>> when it looked like we would be moving in that direction (I own the
>>> corporate Windows configuration specs); we didn't, and a couple of
>>> years later I surplused the box. None of the labs picked it up so
>>> it went to auction.
>>>
>>> The humor? Our property tracking system has a limited field for the
>>> description, and by chance the word "TABLET" at the end had the
>>> final "T" clipped off. Watching the over-enthusiastic bidding I
>>> strongly suspect that
>>> whoever paid top dollar for it thought he was getting a "TABLE" and
>>> not a "TABLET" even though the box was clearly described as coming
>>> from Lenovo. (BTW: the auction has a no-questions-asked 3-day return
>>> policy, so
>>> if he did
>>> make that mistake he wasn't locked into the purchase.)
>>>
>>> Joe
>>
>> My new Dell Latitude ST (tablet) which is on order and I haven't got
>> yet, Dell originally said it will be Windows 8 compatible. They are
>> currently being sold by Dell and others with Windows 7 installed. And
>> now I am finding out that Dell doesn't and will never support
>> Windows 8 on these tablets. This makes no sense to me at all. Yet
>> these old Gateways M465 will run XP, Vista, 7, and 8. Go figure!
>>
>
> It could be the level of multi-touch support, which makes them
> "shy" to support Windows 8.
>
> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/03/28/touch-hardware-and-windows-8.aspx
>
> "The touch language allows us to design a base user experience that
> is optimized for touch and works well on every PC, whether it was
> built originally for Windows 7 or for Windows 8. The fundamental
> gestures require no more than *2 fingers*.
>
> However it is important to note that 2 fingers can be very
> limiting for a variety of applications. This is why Windows 8 PCs
> require digitizers that support a minimum of *5 fingers*.
>
> The reason we went in this direction is a response to developer
> feedback. Developers do not want their creativity to be limited
> <--- !!! and in particular, they let us know that they want to be
> free to use whichever multi-finger gestures or controls are
> useful. They do not want requirements for a minimum number of
> fingers that may not make sense for their application.
> As such, we focused on a minimum of 5 fingers to enable scenarios
> like whole hand interactions (all 5 fingers) or
> multi-finger/multi-hand scenarios. This will address the
> feedback, and unlocks opportunities for developers to push the
> envelope with multi-touch applications. So, while we ensure that
> the OS works well with a Windows 7 PC, a new Windows 8 PC is
> going to be much more consistent and predictable both from a user
> and developer perspective. "
> There's a list here, of the new devices as they come out.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multi-touch_computers_and_monitors
>
> Paul

All very good information Paul. Do you look this stuff up or have you
known it all before? Most of the time I get by from things I already
know. Sometimes I have to look things up. But some of the things you
come up with, I wouldn't have ever guessed.

Anyway some have actually got Windows 8 running somewhat reasonable on
their Dell Latitude ST (although unsupported by Dell). And all Dell has
to do is just update their drivers for Windows 8. But they won't do it.
Seems odd for a model that only has been out a year and they are still
selling it. And just a little bit of effort on their part and they can
make it seamless. But they can't bother.

Anyway here is an example how others have got Windows 8 to work somewhat
on the Dell Latitude ST without Dell's help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUmcyWNDGiY

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2

Paul
November 30th 12, 12:14 AM
BillW50 wrote:
> In ,
> Paul typed:
>> BillW50 wrote:
>>> On 11/29/2012 5:08 AM, Joe Morris wrote:
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> I think it is crap for a relatively high dollar (at the
>>>>>> time)
>>>>>> 26 inch touchscreen pc to not be supported. I also think it is a
>>>>>> just a tad irritating that the upgrade advisor said it would work
>>>>>> fine. No exclamation points, no warnings at all. Unfortunately
>>>>>> for me I made the stupid mistake of downloading and installing win
>>>>>> 8 pro without checking
>>>>>> HP first! I take the blame for that part but still "BE WARNED".
>>>> If it's any consolation, consider the problems that are encountered
>>>> by users
>>>> who purchased the original Microsoft Surface a few years ago. Its
>>>> touchscreen features are supported under Vista...period.
>>>>
>>>> I did get something of a chuckle out of the situation, though. At
>>>> my POE surplus desktop and laptop systems not picked up by one of
>>>> the labs goes to
>>>> an occasional auction to the staff. I had bought a Lenovo tablet
>>>> at a time
>>>> when it looked like we would be moving in that direction (I own the
>>>> corporate Windows configuration specs); we didn't, and a couple of
>>>> years later I surplused the box. None of the labs picked it up so
>>>> it went to auction.
>>>>
>>>> The humor? Our property tracking system has a limited field for the
>>>> description, and by chance the word "TABLET" at the end had the
>>>> final "T" clipped off. Watching the over-enthusiastic bidding I
>>>> strongly suspect that
>>>> whoever paid top dollar for it thought he was getting a "TABLE" and
>>>> not a "TABLET" even though the box was clearly described as coming
>>>> from Lenovo. (BTW: the auction has a no-questions-asked 3-day return
>>>> policy, so
>>>> if he did
>>>> make that mistake he wasn't locked into the purchase.)
>>>>
>>>> Joe
>>> My new Dell Latitude ST (tablet) which is on order and I haven't got
>>> yet, Dell originally said it will be Windows 8 compatible. They are
>>> currently being sold by Dell and others with Windows 7 installed. And
>>> now I am finding out that Dell doesn't and will never support
>>> Windows 8 on these tablets. This makes no sense to me at all. Yet
>>> these old Gateways M465 will run XP, Vista, 7, and 8. Go figure!
>>>
>> It could be the level of multi-touch support, which makes them
>> "shy" to support Windows 8.
>>
>> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/03/28/touch-hardware-and-windows-8.aspx
>>
>> "The touch language allows us to design a base user experience that
>> is optimized for touch and works well on every PC, whether it was
>> built originally for Windows 7 or for Windows 8. The fundamental
>> gestures require no more than *2 fingers*.
>>
>> However it is important to note that 2 fingers can be very
>> limiting for a variety of applications. This is why Windows 8 PCs
>> require digitizers that support a minimum of *5 fingers*.
>>
>> The reason we went in this direction is a response to developer
>> feedback. Developers do not want their creativity to be limited
>> <--- !!! and in particular, they let us know that they want to be
>> free to use whichever multi-finger gestures or controls are
>> useful. They do not want requirements for a minimum number of
>> fingers that may not make sense for their application.
>> As such, we focused on a minimum of 5 fingers to enable scenarios
>> like whole hand interactions (all 5 fingers) or
>> multi-finger/multi-hand scenarios. This will address the
>> feedback, and unlocks opportunities for developers to push the
>> envelope with multi-touch applications. So, while we ensure that
>> the OS works well with a Windows 7 PC, a new Windows 8 PC is
>> going to be much more consistent and predictable both from a user
>> and developer perspective. "
>> There's a list here, of the new devices as they come out.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multi-touch_computers_and_monitors
>>
>> Paul
>
> All very good information Paul. Do you look this stuff up or have you
> known it all before? Most of the time I get by from things I already
> know. Sometimes I have to look things up. But some of the things you
> come up with, I wouldn't have ever guessed.
>
> Anyway some have actually got Windows 8 running somewhat reasonable on
> their Dell Latitude ST (although unsupported by Dell). And all Dell has
> to do is just update their drivers for Windows 8. But they won't do it.
> Seems odd for a model that only has been out a year and they are still
> selling it. And just a little bit of effort on their part and they can
> make it seamless. But they can't bother.
>
> Anyway here is an example how others have got Windows 8 to work somewhat
> on the Dell Latitude ST without Dell's help.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUmcyWNDGiY
>

Hmmm. I just noticed something else :-)

Apple iPad All-in-One iOS 11 9.7 inch (diagonally) 2048x1536 $499 – $829

The "11" thing. So it's "finger envy" :-) Hahaha. A competitor has
a screen with 11 point touch. And that drives your design,
instead of doing your own elegant gesture design.

I worked with a CAD tool years ago, that had gestures.
And the gestures could be entered with a single point of
touch. There's no need to have "11 fingers", if you're clever.

Paul

Gene E. Bloch[_2_]
November 30th 12, 04:26 AM
On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 18:14:20 -0500, Paul wrote:

> Apple iPad All-in-One iOS 11 9.7 inch (diagonally) 2048x1536 $499 ¡V $829
>
> The "11" thing. So it's "finger envy" :-) Hahaha. A competitor has
> a screen with 11 point touch. And that drives your design,
> instead of doing your own elegant gesture design.

My first thought was "What's the 11th finger?". I was restrained enough
to figure it might be the nose...

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

Paul
November 30th 12, 06:42 AM
Gene E. Bloch wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 18:14:20 -0500, Paul wrote:
>
>> Apple iPad All-in-One iOS 11 9.7 inch (diagonally) 2048x1536 $499 ¡V $829
>>
>> The "11" thing. So it's "finger envy" :-) Hahaha. A competitor has
>> a screen with 11 point touch. And that drives your design,
>> instead of doing your own elegant gesture design.
>
> My first thought was "What's the 11th finger?". I was restrained enough
> to figure it might be the nose...
>

Take a look at the picture on the right, and you'll see who it's for :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polydactyly

I think this is great. I first heard about this
in biology class in high school. Think of the
iron grip and firm handshake you'd have.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Polydactyly.jpg/230px-Polydactyly.jpg

Paul

Gene E. Bloch[_2_]
November 30th 12, 07:59 PM
On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 00:42:17 -0500, Paul wrote:

> Gene E. Bloch wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 18:14:20 -0500, Paul wrote:
>>
>>> Apple iPad All-in-One iOS 11 9.7 inch (diagonally) 2048x1536 $499 ¡V $829
>>>
>>> The "11" thing. So it's "finger envy" :-) Hahaha. A competitor has
>>> a screen with 11 point touch. And that drives your design,
>>> instead of doing your own elegant gesture design.
>>
>> My first thought was "What's the 11th finger?". I was restrained enough
>> to figure it might be the nose...
>>
>
> Take a look at the picture on the right, and you'll see who it's for :-)
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polydactyly
>
> I think this is great. I first heard about this
> in biology class in high school. Think of the
> iron grip and firm handshake you'd have.
>
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Polydactyly.jpg/230px-Polydactyly.jpg
>
> Paul

Think of the fun you'd have thumbing your nose at someone :-)

In New England (and in some other regions of the world I've read about
but forgotten) polydactyly is common among domestic cats. They also
display it as an extra thumb (well, that's what I think it is) on the
front paws.

I saw a play many years ago in a tiny theater in Pittsburgh, PA, in
which the young daughter of the family had polydactyly. The family saved
and scraped to have surgery to make her normal, and when it was done,
the daughter died.

IIRC, she had an extra finger, rather than two thumbs.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

Richard Rose
December 5th 12, 12:37 AM
FDK presented the following explanation :
> Any good? On a desktop or laptop.

It works and is probably best used just for a touch enabled laptop but
make sure you have cleaning cloths for your monitors, greasy fingers
are a nuisance and spoiil the experience!

It will also slow down in time when MS start releasing updates or new
versions of Internet Explorer just the same with previous versions of
windows and its a bit more dumbed down for people who dont have a clue
about computers whilst infuriating advanced users and programmers. Have
found the odd bug in windows 8 already which no doubt will be exploited
by some as well.

IMO Win 8 should detect whether the screen is a touchscreen and then
show the relevant GUI ie metro for touchscreen or traditional desktop
if no touchscreen becuase its pointless trying to use Metro with a
mouse, charms is flaky and we are advising our corporate users to steer
clear of it as it will cause too many support calls. Oh and I cant get
it to recognise more than 1 monitor which is bit pointless as I have 6
monitors on my desktop system but from what I have seen regarding multi
monitor support, its taken some features from Ultramon but not all like
a hot key to move an app from one monitor to the other and other little
hot keys tricks.

This release will probably hurt MS alot, sales data shows windows 8
seats are down 21% IIRC compared to Win7 seats over the same time
period.

Google