Email question for W-8

[R. H. Breener[_2_]]

I'm hoping I can get some information for a friend who just bought a desktop
with W-8. He wants to do as I did with the email program and that is run
WindowsMail or OutlookExpress on his new PC. I told him I seriously doubt
OE would run on any of the new OSs, but I would ask about WindowsMail. Not
WindowsLiveMail. Does anyone know if he can get it to work like those of us
with W-7?

[VanguardLH[_2_]]

"R. H. Breener" wrote:

> I'm hoping I can get some information for a friend who just bought a
> desktop with W-8. He wants to do as I did with the email program and
> that is run WindowsMail or OutlookExpress on his new PC. I told him
> I seriously doubt OE would run on any of the new OSs, but I would ask
> about WindowsMail. Not WindowsLiveMail. Does anyone know if he can
> get it to work like those of us with W-7?

Introduce your friend to Mozilla's Thunderbird. It's GUI will be
familiar to your friend. The biggest different your friend is likely to
encounter is defining accounts (where SMTP servers are defined
separately of the POP/IMAP account and you select which SMTP server to
use with which POP/IMAP account). Of course, the difference is only
encounted the number of times you have accounts to add into Thunderbird.
Once they're defined, it's unlikely you'll have to edit them later.

WLM is also similar to OE but you chose to omit that choice on behalf of
your friend although your friend might still like it (you did not say
your friend told you not to suggest WLM). WLM is not recommended for
Usenet posting due to Microsoft's dropping of proper indentation of
quoted content that the user is now expected to perform. You asked
about an e-mail client.

If you want to suggest to your friend a free equivalent of MS Outlook
(e-mail, better notes, calendar, task/todo list, contacts) then have
your friend look at EssentialPIM (EPIM). Show your friend the
screenshots at http://www.essentialpim.com/pc-version/screenshots. I
suspect there are different pane arrangements available if your friend
doesn't like the default. To compare the free versus paid versions, see
http://www.essentialpim.com/pc-version/pro-vs-free. For personal use,
your friend can start with the free version and decide later if he/she
wants to pay $40 which is much cheaper than buying standalone Outlook.

If I were to drop the Outlook that I already have (as part of the MS
Office suite), the free version of EPIM is a strong candidate for me.
Both EPIM and Tbird are free and I, as a user, am not interested that
one is closed versus open regarding source code. How many of your
non-developer friends do you know that download Tbird's source code
(https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Developer_Guide/Source_Code/Downloading_Source_Archives)?
EPIM includes calendaring. With Thunderbird, you have to install an
add-on (Lightning) or get a derivative of Tbird, like Sunbird. I have
not found a feature-by-feature comparison between the two to see which
one might have more features (and those that I want and would use, and
ignore the surplus).

EPIM is available as an installed or portable version with each version
shown on the same download page (http://www.essentialpim.com/get-epim).
Tbird has both types, too. For Tbird's portable version, you can go to
http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/thunderbird_portable or to
PortableApps.com. Some folks like to walk around with a USB flash drive
to run the portable version of their e-mail client from there so all
their e-mails are locally in one place no matter on which computer they
ran the e-mail program; however, with proper configuration of POP3
settings or by using IMAP, you can keep multiple installed copies of the
e-mail client in sync. A portable version works around computers where
you cannot install software or don't want to, like you don't want to
pollute your friend's laptop while sharing it on vacation. Just be
aware that many schools, Internet cafes, libraries, other publicly
accessible computers, or your friend's computer may have their USB ports
disabled. If they locked down their computer, you can't install
software on those computers and the USB ports are disabled or you're not
permitted to run programs from there.

[BillW50]

On 12/8/2012 12:49 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
> "R. H. Breener" wrote:
>
>> I'm hoping I can get some information for a friend who just bought a
>> desktop with W-8. He wants to do as I did with the email program and
>> that is run WindowsMail or OutlookExpress on his new PC. I told him
>> I seriously doubt OE would run on any of the new OSs, but I would ask
>> about WindowsMail. Not WindowsLiveMail. Does anyone know if he can
>> get it to work like those of us with W-7?
>
> Introduce your friend to Mozilla's Thunderbird...

I've been running Thunderbird since v1.5 and I wished I never bothered
with it at all. After all of these years it is still clumsy to use and
slow as molasses. And they can never get it right and keep releasing bug
fixes like crazy. Just in the last three years, they went from v3 to
v17. That's just insane! Maybe Mozilla might get it right around version 93.

The only thing it does right is to also work as a portable application.
That makes syncing between machines very easy. And I thought it was slow
on my 6 year old machines. But it is just awful on my new Intel Atom
Z670 slate tablets. Heck the editor sometimes freezes for 30 to 45
seconds at a time on these machines. Mozilla really needs to get some
better programmers that actually knows what they are doing. :-(

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12.0.1
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2

[Alias[_43_]]

On 12/8/2012 10:43 AM, BillW50 wrote:
> On 12/8/2012 12:49 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
>> "R. H. Breener" wrote:
>>
>>> I'm hoping I can get some information for a friend who just bought a
>>> desktop with W-8. He wants to do as I did with the email program and
>>> that is run WindowsMail or OutlookExpress on his new PC. I told him
>>> I seriously doubt OE would run on any of the new OSs, but I would ask
>>> about WindowsMail. Not WindowsLiveMail. Does anyone know if he can
>>> get it to work like those of us with W-7?
>>
>> Introduce your friend to Mozilla's Thunderbird...
>
> I've been running Thunderbird since v1.5 and I wished I never bothered
> with it at all. After all of these years it is still clumsy to use and
> slow as molasses. And they can never get it right and keep releasing bug
> fixes like crazy. Just in the last three years, they went from v3 to
> v17. That's just insane! Maybe Mozilla might get it right around version
> 93.
>
> The only thing it does right is to also work as a portable application.
> That makes syncing between machines very easy. And I thought it was slow
> on my 6 year old machines. But it is just awful on my new Intel Atom
> Z670 slate tablets. Heck the editor sometimes freezes for 30 to 45
> seconds at a time on these machines. Mozilla really needs to get some
> better programmers that actually knows what they are doing. :-(
>

Well, if something doesn't work for Bill the Braggart, you know it will
work for everyone else. I've been using T-Bird and its predecessors for
years and it isn't slow at all.

--
Alias

[BillW50]

In ,
Alias typed:
> On 12/8/2012 10:43 AM, BillW50 wrote:
>> On 12/8/2012 12:49 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
>>> "R. H. Breener" wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm hoping I can get some information for a friend who just bought
>>>> a desktop with W-8. He wants to do as I did with the email program
>>>> and that is run WindowsMail or OutlookExpress on his new PC. I
>>>> told him I seriously doubt OE would run on any of the new OSs, but
>>>> I would ask about WindowsMail. Not WindowsLiveMail. Does anyone
>>>> know if he can get it to work like those of us with W-7?
>>>
>>> Introduce your friend to Mozilla's Thunderbird...
>>
>> I've been running Thunderbird since v1.5 and I wished I never
>> bothered with it at all. After all of these years it is still clumsy
>> to use and slow as molasses. And they can never get it right and
>> keep releasing bug fixes like crazy. Just in the last three years,
>> they went from v3 to v17. That's just insane! Maybe Mozilla might
>> get it right around version 93.
>>
>> The only thing it does right is to also work as a portable
>> application. That makes syncing between machines very easy. And I
>> thought it was slow on my 6 year old machines. But it is just awful
>> on my new Intel Atom Z670 slate tablets. Heck the editor sometimes
>> freezes for 30 to 45 seconds at a time on these machines. Mozilla
>> really needs to get some better programmers that actually knows what
>> they are doing. :-(
>
> Well, if something doesn't work for Bill the Braggart, you know it
> will work for everyone else. I've been using T-Bird and its
> predecessors for years and it isn't slow at all.

You are also an admitted pirate, thief, cheat, and have no respect for
honesty and truth. So no surprise there.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2

[Alias[_43_]]

On 12/8/2012 12:40 PM, BillW50 wrote:
> In ,
> Alias typed:
>> On 12/8/2012 10:43 AM, BillW50 wrote:
>>> On 12/8/2012 12:49 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
>>>> "R. H. Breener" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm hoping I can get some information for a friend who just bought
>>>>> a desktop with W-8. He wants to do as I did with the email program
>>>>> and that is run WindowsMail or OutlookExpress on his new PC. I
>>>>> told him I seriously doubt OE would run on any of the new OSs, but
>>>>> I would ask about WindowsMail. Not WindowsLiveMail. Does anyone
>>>>> know if he can get it to work like those of us with W-7?
>>>>
>>>> Introduce your friend to Mozilla's Thunderbird...
>>>
>>> I've been running Thunderbird since v1.5 and I wished I never
>>> bothered with it at all. After all of these years it is still clumsy
>>> to use and slow as molasses. And they can never get it right and
>>> keep releasing bug fixes like crazy. Just in the last three years,
>>> they went from v3 to v17. That's just insane! Maybe Mozilla might
>>> get it right around version 93.
>>>
>>> The only thing it does right is to also work as a portable
>>> application. That makes syncing between machines very easy. And I
>>> thought it was slow on my 6 year old machines. But it is just awful
>>> on my new Intel Atom Z670 slate tablets. Heck the editor sometimes
>>> freezes for 30 to 45 seconds at a time on these machines. Mozilla
>>> really needs to get some better programmers that actually knows what
>>> they are doing. :-(
>>
>> Well, if something doesn't work for Bill the Braggart, you know it
>> will work for everyone else. I've been using T-Bird and its
>> predecessors for years and it isn't slow at all.
>
> You are also an admitted pirate,

A lie.

> thief,

A lie.

> cheat,

A lie

> and have no respect for
> honesty and truth.

The irony!

> So no surprise there.
>

What's no surprise is you can't configure T-Bird to work properly and,
well, you're a liar.

--
Alias

[VanguardLH[_2_]]

"BillW50" wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> "R. H. Breener" wrote:
>>
>>> I'm hoping I can get some information for a friend who just bought a
>>> desktop with W-8. He wants to do as I did with the email program and
>>> that is run WindowsMail or OutlookExpress on his new PC. ...
>>
>> Introduce your friend to Mozilla's Thunderbird...
>
> I've been running Thunderbird since v1.5 and I wished I never bothered
> with it at all. After all of these years it is still clumsy to use
> and slow as molasses. And they can never get it right and keep
> releasing bug fixes like crazy. Just in the last three years, they
> went from v3 to v17. That's just insane! Maybe Mozilla might get it
> right around version 93.

Mozilla got influenced by Google, their primary revenue source. Instead
of using major, minor, and build versions as their version number, they
went to incremental version numbers (just like Google Chrome). They
then implemented their ESR (Extended Support Release) scheme so
businesses could plan on stabilizing at specific version levels.

http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/faq/

While that lists the ESR & incremental release schedule for Firefox, you
could also follow it for the releases of Thunderbird. If you want to
follow Thunderbird's own ESR schedule then look at:

http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/organizations/

You don't have to update until you choose to do so. The reason for the
ESR schedule to to help companies focus on a version level for awhile.
They, and you, can do the same for Thunderbird. Do you really need
every little security update that comes out when it comes out? Do you
need every feature change they push into FireFox or Thunderbird when
they decide to push it out? And do you really need every bug fix? That
is, why do you concerned about bug fixes on functionality you don't use
or doesn't alter your use of the product? Do you also burn your BIOS
every time a new version comes out and update your working video card
setup because a newer driver became available?

If you chose to use Google Chrome, do you really let it automatically
update without prompt every time Google decides to push out another
build level?

Personally I prefer the mm.nn.bbbb (major, minor, build) versioning to
which software development houses, companies, and users have been
accustomed for decades. However, there are lots of users that still
want to download every build that gets released so they're doing the
same as you in updating when they don't need to. They have 2.1.4.1808
and then 2.1.4.2144 comes out and, bam, they have to get that newer one
now. They don't even bother to read the release notes to see if there
is anything that could possibly affect their use of the product. It
doesn't matter if incremental versioning is used or major.minor.build
versioning is used since the user for either scheme that installs every
one of them is getting every little update when it comes out. Unless
there is a specific fix in a build or incremental release of a product,
I wait until the minor version comes out before I care about updating
the product. For incremental versioning, I look at the release notes
and decide if it's worth the hassle to install and the hassle of
functional changes. The security updates in build or incremental
release schedules is usually trivial.

I haven't experienced Thunderbird being slow, especially when compared
to something like WLM which abandoned using a speed database to store
records and went to saving files in the file system and using an index
to track them. However, I don't let my message store get bloated with
worthless e-mails. For the vast majority of my e-mails, extremely few
have any remaining value after they are 5 years old. I purge older
records. The few that are important for longer than that go into their
own archive folder. I'm neat oriented. The same for when I clean my
house twice a year: if I haven't used it in the last 5 years and it
doesn't look like there's any possibility that I'll use it in the next 5
years then it gets discarded (trashed, given away, sold off). I'd
rather have a select number of quality items than accumulate junk to
fill up my house or my message store. I've seen folks that leave 8000
e-mails in their Inbox folder because they're too lazy to read it, trim
it, and organize it (as it came in incrementally - when it piles up they
are less inclined to take the time all at once).

> The only thing it does right is to also work as a portable
> application. That makes syncing between machines very easy.

That isn't synchronization. You're using the SAME message store each
time you go to another host and run the SAME instance of Tbird over
there. Synchronization doesn't require a portable version of your
e-mail client. Configuring a POP e-mail client to leave messages up on
the server (rather than DELEte after RETRieve) for a time far longer
than it would take for all your hosts to poll the same account would
allow all of them to retrieve the same e-mail. If you set your POP3
e-mail client to leave messages up on the server for, say, 30 days then
you can still retrieve that message by each instance of your e-mail
client on the other hosts. Do you need to retrieve e-mails that over a
month old? They're aren't out of date, irrelevant, or dead by then? If
not, you could up the expiration to 60 or 90 days, or longer, like a
year. If you're using IMAP, each of your clients will also see the same
messages sitting up on the server. That is client-side controlled
synchronization (versus server-side or cloud synchronization). Moving
around your message store and updating the same one to poll the same
account(s) is not synchronization anymore than toting around your
computer to the different locations and updating the same message store
is synchronization.

> And I thought it was slow on my 6 year old machines. But it is just
> awful on my new Intel Atom Z670 slate tablets. Heck the editor
> sometimes freezes for 30 to 45 seconds at a time on these machines.
> Mozilla really needs to get some better programmers that actually
> knows what they are doing. :-(

I don't see other Thunderbird users (that I know so I can see what they
get for responsiveness of the product) having your difficulties. Since
your the one who reconfigures a fresh install of whatever version of
Windows, it's possible you're doing something in each install that
affects Thunderbird. I've seen way too many times where users will
complain about a problem, start with a fresh install of Windows, install
everything they did before, and just end up with the same problem again.
Have you done a fresh install of Windows, performed only the updates for
Windows, and then installed Thunderbird to see if the slowness still
happens in a clean install of Windows?

Another test would be to replace the current message with a blank one.
That is, move out the old message store, start with an empty one, and
see if Tbird suddenly speeds up. Outlook Express got a bit slower as
its database files got bigger (but it had an in-built limit of 2GB for
the database file so it didn't slow much until eventually your
overflowed the database file and OE behaved badly). Outlook starts to
get slower when its message store (.pst file) starts to get huge. It's
not like these e-mail clients are using SQL or mySQL tailored for
enterprise use to keep speedy the record retrieval rate. Instead
they're more like products that use SQLite as a serverless database
(just the sqlite.exe file is needed and can be copied onto the host
rather than install a full-blown SQL database program). Even SQLite
gets slower as the number of records increases that it has to track in
the file it updates as its database. Sure, using an SQL or mySQL server
would make the e-mail client but what users would want to go through the
added install of an SQL server (on their host or in their intranet) to
do e-mail? SQLite doesn't need to be "installed", just copied (dump the
sqlite.exe file on the host or portable media) but it does have its
limits (http://www.sqlite.org/limits.html). Still it's a pretty good
non-installed SQL database manager for most non-enterprise tasks. It
lacks some SQL command (http://www.sqlite.org/omitted.html), like some
directives for the Alter Table command (e.g., adding or deleting a
column or even of renaming it to change the record format). Instead you
have to go through the rigamarole of creating a new table with the new
record format and migrating the old table's records into the new table
(http://www.sqlite.org/faq.html#q11). This is a linear operation that
takes a l-o-n-g time on a big table. Most applications know the
structure of their records and don't change it so the deficiency is
often not a concern. Because SQLite uses file I/O to read and write to
the database, it will be slower than using a full-blown server,
especially since the transaction is typically small but the database
large and an SQL server offloads the work from the client. SQLite can
be slow if you don't use it most efficiently. See an example article at
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1711631/how-do-i-improve-the-performance-of-sqlite.
So using SQLite eliminates having to install an SQL server, won't be as
speedy as using an SQL server, and could be hampered by poor design with
the client that is using SQLite.

Then remember a lot of e-mails clients don't even use a good database
program or don't use one at all. While the WLM proponents like to say
its message store is a database, I hardly consider saving a bunch of
files, one for each item in WLM, of having to use the system API for
file I/O, and hoping to correctly track all those files and their
contents in an indexing file is, to me, not really a database. It's
something of extracting the guts of a simple database server and dumping
it into the file system. If the e-mail client is using SQLite then
anything that interferes with the transactional updates to the file will
impact SQLite's performance, like an anti-virus program that reads the
whole file trying to match on its signatures rather than monitor the
small transactional data sent to the database file. While Firefox uses
SQLite, it appears Mozilla decided not to and instead do something akin
to WLM by using the file system and using the file I/O API to update
them. http://www.z-a-recovery.com/thunderbird-email-database.htm leads
me to believe Thunderbird doesn't use a database, like SQLite, to manage
its message store but instead does something like WLM. While larger, I
was surprised to see there is a 4GB limit on the size of files for
Tbird's message store but that looks to be a FAT32 limit (since the
message store is stored as files and not as a database). It can be
bigger when using NTFS (http://kb.mozillazine.org/Limits_-_Thunderbird)
but bigger means progressively slower. You didn't mention how big are
your Tbird message store's files.

They note that compacting a folder larger than 4GB is "extremely slow".
Looks like they really don't want you to exceed 4GB and probably 2GB is
better for responsiveness of their program. If you leave Tbird
configured to automatically compact its database, maybe you'll getting
hit on responsiveness of the program because the compaction is taking a
long time on really big db files for Tbird. You could up the threshold
(of saved disk space) to reduce how often compaction runs, or disable
automatic compaction and do it manually whenever you choose.

[Live[_2_]]

Rename "Windows Mail" to "Windows Mail 8" (for not to need take ownership)
Create new "Windows Mail" folder (so all registry references still being
correct)
Copy content of "Windows Mail" folder from Vista (or a working version from
Windows 7) into new created "Windows Mail" folder
Copy "msidcrl30.dll" into "Windows Mail" folder (from Windows 7 or the above
attachment)
Run "Windows Mail"

http://www.eightforums.com/browsers-mail/3698-how-use-winmail-windows-8-a-2.html

"R. H. Breener" wrote...
I'm hoping I can get some information for a friend who just bought a desktop
with W-8. He wants to do as I did with the email program and that is run
WindowsMail or OutlookExpress on his new PC. I told him I seriously doubt
OE would run on any of the new OSs, but I would ask about WindowsMail. Not
WindowsLiveMail. Does anyone know if he can get it to work like those of us
with W-7?

[Frank]

"R. H. Breener" > wrote in message
...
> I'm hoping I can get some information for a friend who just bought a desktop
> with W-8. He wants to do as I did with the email program and that is run
> WindowsMail or OutlookExpress on his new PC. I told him I seriously doubt OE
> would run on any of the new OSs, but I would ask about WindowsMail. Not
> WindowsLiveMail. Does anyone know if he can get it to work like those of us
> with W-7?


Hi R H,

Yes you can most definitely use your Vista Windows Mail email program on
Windows 8 as many have done already, it's almost the same procedure just like I
see 'You' did the other day on Windows 7 over in the alt.windows7.general
group. Many people have and use WM on Windows 8 just fine!
It's almost the same procedure as you've done on Windows 7, but it's just a
little different in the beginning. But seeing that you had so much problems
with understanding how to do the simple tasks in the Windows 7 tutorial may
mean that you haven't the techie experience yet to pull it off on Windows 8
too. You won't find the support for it especially on this group like you
did the other day in the other group for something that is so unsupported and
not very well explained on how to accomplish the task. Perhaps at some point
someone will make a detailed tutorial on that Windows 8 forum just like they
did on the Windows 7 forum.
Anyway you can check how to do it in the below link, realize though it seems
you need to read further than just the first post there, and read the whole
first page of posts and discern the necessary info first before you proceed:
http://www.eightforums.com/browsers-mail/3698-how-use-winmail-windows-8-a.html

Good luck

[BillW50]

On 12/8/2012 7:36 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
> "BillW50" wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>
>>> "R. H. Breener" wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm hoping I can get some information for a friend who just bought a
>>>> desktop with W-8. He wants to do as I did with the email program and
>>>> that is run WindowsMail or OutlookExpress on his new PC. ...
>>>
>>> Introduce your friend to Mozilla's Thunderbird...
>>
>> I've been running Thunderbird since v1.5 and I wished I never bothered
>> with it at all. After all of these years it is still clumsy to use
>> and slow as molasses. And they can never get it right and keep
>> releasing bug fixes like crazy. Just in the last three years, they
>> went from v3 to v17. That's just insane! Maybe Mozilla might get it
>> right around version 93.
>
> Mozilla got influenced by Google...

Yes so true and thanks for the info.

> You don't have to update until you choose to do so...

Also so true. I was running v14 and v15 for awhile, but went back to v12.

> I haven't experienced Thunderbird being slow,

Many people have. Just Google 'Thunderbird slow editor' and you get over
2 million hits.

>especially when compared
> to something like WLM which abandoned using a speed database to store
> records and went to saving files in the file system and using an index
> to track them. However, I don't let my message store get bloated with
> worthless e-mails. For the vast majority of my e-mails, extremely few
> have any remaining value after they are 5 years old. I purge older
> records. The few that are important for longer than that go into their
> own archive folder. I'm neat oriented. The same for when I clean my
> house twice a year: if I haven't used it in the last 5 years and it
> doesn't look like there's any possibility that I'll use it in the next 5
> years then it gets discarded (trashed, given away, sold off). I'd
> rather have a select number of quality items than accumulate junk to
> fill up my house or my message store. I've seen folks that leave 8000
> e-mails in their Inbox folder because they're too lazy to read it, trim
> it, and organize it (as it came in incrementally - when it piles up they
> are less inclined to take the time all at once).

Yeah, I am not that impressed with WLM either. It resembles a badly
hacked version of OE.

>> The only thing it does right is to also work as a portable
>> application. That makes syncing between machines very easy.
>
> That isn't synchronization. You're using the SAME message store each
> time you go to another host and run the SAME instance of Tbird over
> there.

I know what you are saying, but the way I do it it is really
synchronization. As I leave a copy of portable TB on all of my
computers. And I use SyncBack for this and other data. Although for
portable TB, it only updates the files that has been changed and deletes
the old files that doesn't exist anymore. Thus only the files that has
changed gets updated and the rest are untouched. It is also extremely
fast this way. I don't know, seems like it only takes like 5 seconds or
so to sync 1.12GB.

>Synchronization doesn't require a portable version of your
> e-mail client. Configuring a POP e-mail client to leave messages up on
> the server (rather than DELEte after RETRieve) for a time far longer
> than it would take for all your hosts to poll the same account would
> allow all of them to retrieve the same e-mail. If you set your POP3
> e-mail client to leave messages up on the server for, say, 30 days then
> you can still retrieve that message by each instance of your e-mail
> client on the other hosts. Do you need to retrieve e-mails that over a
> month old? They're aren't out of date, irrelevant, or dead by then? If
> not, you could up the expiration to 60 or 90 days, or longer, like a
> year. If you're using IMAP, each of your clients will also see the same
> messages sitting up on the server. That is client-side controlled
> synchronization (versus server-side or cloud synchronization). Moving
> around your message store and updating the same one to poll the same
> account(s) is not synchronization anymore than toting around your
> computer to the different locations and updating the same message store
> is synchronization.

Oh man! I hate that method. Sure I used that method n the early days.
Lots of problems though. All new POP email on the other computers come
in as new, when they where read previously. Any flagged (aka Starred)
doesn't sync, etc. Same problems happens with the newsgroups too.

Now IMAP works well syncing this way. As read once on one machine also
gets marked as read on all of the others. Even flagging gets synced to
all of your other machines too.

>> And I thought it was slow on my 6 year old machines. But it is just
>> awful on my new Intel Atom Z670 slate tablets. Heck the editor
>> sometimes freezes for 30 to 45 seconds at a time on these machines.
>> Mozilla really needs to get some better programmers that actually
>> knows what they are doing. :-(
>
> I don't see other Thunderbird users (that I know so I can see what they
> get for responsiveness of the product) having your difficulties. Since
> your the one who reconfigures a fresh install of whatever version of
> Windows, it's possible you're doing something in each install that
> affects Thunderbird. I've seen way too many times where users will
> complain about a problem, start with a fresh install of Windows, install
> everything they did before, and just end up with the same problem again.
> Have you done a fresh install of Windows, performed only the updates for
> Windows, and then installed Thunderbird to see if the slowness still
> happens in a clean install of Windows?

Yes I have and the problem is worse on the less powerful CPUs. A fresh
install or an old Windows install doesn't matter. That is all of the same.

> Another test would be to replace the current message with a blank one.
> That is, move out the old message store, start with an empty one, and
> see if Tbird suddenly speeds up. Outlook Express got a bit slower as
> its database files got bigger (but it had an in-built limit of 2GB for
> the database file so it didn't slow much until eventually your
> overflowed the database file and OE behaved badly). Outlook starts to
> get slower when its message store (.pst file) starts to get huge. It's
> not like these e-mail clients are using SQL or mySQL tailored for
> enterprise use to keep speedy the record retrieval rate. Instead
> they're more like products that use SQLite as a serverless database
> (just the sqlite.exe file is needed and can be copied onto the host
> rather than install a full-blown SQL database program). Even SQLite
> gets slower as the number of records increases that it has to track in
> the file it updates as its database. Sure, using an SQL or mySQL server
> would make the e-mail client but what users would want to go through the
> added install of an SQL server (on their host or in their intranet) to
> do e-mail? SQLite doesn't need to be "installed", just copied (dump the
> sqlite.exe file on the host or portable media) but it does have its
> limits (http://www.sqlite.org/limits.html). Still it's a pretty good
> non-installed SQL database manager for most non-enterprise tasks. It
> lacks some SQL command (http://www.sqlite.org/omitted.html), like some
> directives for the Alter Table command (e.g., adding or deleting a
> column or even of renaming it to change the record format). Instead you
> have to go through the rigamarole of creating a new table with the new
> record format and migrating the old table's records into the new table
> (http://www.sqlite.org/faq.html#q11). This is a linear operation that
> takes a l-o-n-g time on a big table. Most applications know the
> structure of their records and don't change it so the deficiency is
> often not a concern. Because SQLite uses file I/O to read and write to
> the database, it will be slower than using a full-blown server,
> especially since the transaction is typically small but the database
> large and an SQL server offloads the work from the client. SQLite can
> be slow if you don't use it most efficiently. See an example article at
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1711631/how-do-i-improve-the-performance-of-sqlite.
> So using SQLite eliminates having to install an SQL server, won't be as
> speedy as using an SQL server, and could be hampered by poor design with
> the client that is using SQLite.
>
> Then remember a lot of e-mails clients don't even use a good database
> program or don't use one at all. While the WLM proponents like to say
> its message store is a database, I hardly consider saving a bunch of
> files, one for each item in WLM, of having to use the system API for
> file I/O, and hoping to correctly track all those files and their
> contents in an indexing file is, to me, not really a database. It's
> something of extracting the guts of a simple database server and dumping
> it into the file system. If the e-mail client is using SQLite then
> anything that interferes with the transactional updates to the file will
> impact SQLite's performance, like an anti-virus program that reads the
> whole file trying to match on its signatures rather than monitor the
> small transactional data sent to the database file. While Firefox uses
> SQLite, it appears Mozilla decided not to and instead do something akin
> to WLM by using the file system and using the file I/O API to update
> them. http://www.z-a-recovery.com/thunderbird-email-database.htm leads
> me to believe Thunderbird doesn't use a database, like SQLite, to manage
> its message store but instead does something like WLM. While larger, I
> was surprised to see there is a 4GB limit on the size of files for
> Tbird's message store but that looks to be a FAT32 limit (since the
> message store is stored as files and not as a database). It can be
> bigger when using NTFS (http://kb.mozillazine.org/Limits_-_Thunderbird)
> but bigger means progressively slower. You didn't mention how big are
> your Tbird message store's files.
>
> They note that compacting a folder larger than 4GB is "extremely slow".
> Looks like they really don't want you to exceed 4GB and probably 2GB is
> better for responsiveness of their program. If you leave Tbird
> configured to automatically compact its database, maybe you'll getting
> hit on responsiveness of the program because the compaction is taking a
> long time on really big db files for Tbird. You could up the threshold
> (of saved disk space) to reduce how often compaction runs, or disable
> automatic compaction and do it manually whenever you choose.

Yes I know how nifty the OE database is. I love that and I wished more
email and newsgroup readers did it that way. I never hit any limit or
problem with the size of my folders under OE. Heck sometimes I don't
compact the folders for years and I still never had a problem. The only
slow part of OE that I don't like is marking the whole newsgroup as read
"catch up". That is slow, but everything else is extremely fast.

As far as TB goes, it seems to corrupt its index files (*.msf) a lot.
And this is one of the major complains about TB. The fix is if they are
missing (because you deleted them), TB will recreate them when starting.
This fix only last so long and TB will manage to corrupt them once again
and slow things down.

Also apparently many happy TB users don't use IMAP. Although those that
do, often complain how slow TB is. Yes, I have many IMAP accounts too.

My TB db files? A quick check and they are pretty small. My whole
portable TB folder (which contains everything) is only 1.12GB in size.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12.0.1
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2

[BillW50]

On 12/8/2012 6:26 AM, Alias wrote:
> On 12/8/2012 12:40 PM, BillW50 wrote:
>> In , Alias typed:
>>> On 12/8/2012 10:43 AM, BillW50 wrote:
>>>> On 12/8/2012 12:49 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>> "R. H. Breener" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm hoping I can get some information for a friend who just
>>>>>> bought a desktop with W-8. He wants to do as I did with the
>>>>>> email program and that is run WindowsMail or OutlookExpress
>>>>>> on his new PC. I told him I seriously doubt OE would run on
>>>>>> any of the new OSs, but I would ask about WindowsMail. Not
>>>>>> WindowsLiveMail. Does anyone know if he can get it to work
>>>>>> like those of us with W-7?
>>>>>
>>>>> Introduce your friend to Mozilla's Thunderbird...
>>>>
>>>> I've been running Thunderbird since v1.5 and I wished I never
>>>> bothered with it at all. After all of these years it is still
>>>> clumsy to use and slow as molasses. And they can never get it
>>>> right and keep releasing bug fixes like crazy. Just in the last
>>>> three years, they went from v3 to v17. That's just insane!
>>>> Maybe Mozilla might get it right around version 93.
>>>>
>>>> The only thing it does right is to also work as a portable
>>>> application. That makes syncing between machines very easy. And
>>>> I thought it was slow on my 6 year old machines. But it is just
>>>> awful on my new Intel Atom Z670 slate tablets. Heck the editor
>>>> sometimes freezes for 30 to 45 seconds at a time on these
>>>> machines. Mozilla really needs to get some better programmers
>>>> that actually knows what they are doing. :-(
>>>
>>> Well, if something doesn't work for Bill the Braggart, you know
>>> it will work for everyone else. I've been using T-Bird and its
>>> predecessors for years and it isn't slow at all.
>>
>> You are also an admitted pirate,
>
> A lie.
>
>> thief,
>
> A lie.
>
>> cheat,
>
> A lie
>
>> and have no respect for honesty and truth.
>
> The irony!
>
>> So no surprise there.
>>
>
> What's no surprise is you can't configure T-Bird to work properly
> and, well, you're a liar.

I am not sure why somebody like you wants so badly to prove they are
such a clueless dork, but ok. And any half-wit could quickly in 0.13 of
a second search under Google 'Thunderbird slow editor' and find over 2
million hits. Heck there is a program (called ThunderFix) to delete TB
index files because TB keeps corrupting them and causing TB to run
slowly. Of course, dorky Alias doesn't know any of this because Alias is
too lazy to spend 0.13 second of their life to be educated.

And if you look at Amplicate's hate Thunderbird website, you will find
49% hate Thunderbird. And the main reason is because it is too slow. And
if you check out Amplicate's love Thunderbird website, only 51% love it.
So I don't know why you are so out of touch with reality? Maybe you need
to leave your room once in awhile and take a walk outside. ;-)

http://amplicate.com/hate/thunderbird
http://amplicate.com/love/thunderbird

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12.0.1
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2

[Nil[_2_]]

On 08 Dec 2012, BillW50 > wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

> I am not sure why somebody like you wants so badly to prove they
> are such a clueless dork, but ok. And any half-wit could quickly
> in 0.13 of a second search under Google 'Thunderbird slow editor'
> and find over 2 million hits.

Google "Thunderbird love" gets you 13,800,000 results.

Gooble "avocado atom moscow bicycle" gets you 3,630,000 results.

Google "BillW50 clueless" gets you 3,430 results. I guess that proves
it, eh?

[BillW50]

On 12/8/2012 2:25 PM, Nil wrote:
> On 08 Dec 2012, > wrote in
> alt.comp.os.windows-8:
>
>> I am not sure why somebody like you wants so badly to prove they
>> are such a clueless dork, but ok. And any half-wit could quickly
>> in 0.13 of a second search under Google 'Thunderbird slow editor'
>> and find over 2 million hits.
>
> Google "Thunderbird love" gets you 13,800,000 results.
>
> Gooble "avocado atom moscow bicycle" gets you 3,630,000 results.
>
> Google "BillW50 clueless" gets you 3,430 results. I guess that proves
> it, eh?

Naw... most of those are from clueless Alias, who refuses to leave their
room and to go outside into the real world. As in the real world you
will find many comments about Thunderbird being slow as a very common
complaint.

--
Bill
Dell Latitute Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('11 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB - Windows 7 SP1

[BillW50]

On 12/8/2012 2:53 PM, BillW50 wrote:
> On 12/8/2012 2:25 PM, Nil wrote:
>> On 08 Dec 2012, > wrote in
>> alt.comp.os.windows-8:
>>
>>> I am not sure why somebody like you wants so badly to prove they
>>> are such a clueless dork, but ok. And any half-wit could quickly
>>> in 0.13 of a second search under Google 'Thunderbird slow editor'
>>> and find over 2 million hits.
>>
>> Google "Thunderbird love" gets you 13,800,000 results.
>>
>> Gooble "avocado atom moscow bicycle" gets you 3,630,000 results.
>>
>> Google "BillW50 clueless" gets you 3,430 results. I guess that proves
>> it, eh?
>
> Naw... most of those are from clueless Alias, who refuses to leave their
> room and to go outside into the real world. As in the real world you
> will find many comments about Thunderbird being slow as a very common
> complaint.

If you don't believe me, type in 'nil clueless' and you get 10,700,000
results. ;-)

--
Bill
Dell Latitute Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('11 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB - Windows 7 SP1

[BillW50]

On 12/8/2012 1:31 PM, BillW50 wrote:
> On 12/8/2012 7:36 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
>> "BillW50" wrote:
>>> And I thought it was slow on my 6 year old machines. But it is just
>>> awful on my new Intel Atom Z670 slate tablets. Heck the editor
>>> sometimes freezes for 30 to 45 seconds at a time on these machines.
>>> Mozilla really needs to get some better programmers that actually
>>> knows what they are doing. :-(
>>
>> I don't see other Thunderbird users (that I know so I can see what they
>> get for responsiveness of the product) having your difficulties. Since
>> your the one who reconfigures a fresh install of whatever version of
>> Windows, it's possible you're doing something in each install that
>> affects Thunderbird. I've seen way too many times where users will
>> complain about a problem, start with a fresh install of Windows, install
>> everything they did before, and just end up with the same problem again.
>> Have you done a fresh install of Windows, performed only the updates for
>> Windows, and then installed Thunderbird to see if the slowness still
>> happens in a clean install of Windows?
>
> Yes I have and the problem is worse on the less powerful CPUs. A fresh
> install or an old Windows install doesn't matter. That is all of the same.

I am running on the Dell Latitude ST with an Atom Z670 again. And I was
using portable TB on one of my XP SP2 machines earlier and it was doing
pretty well. Although this Dell is almost totally stock with Windows 7
SP1 pre-installed. I did turn off Control Panel\All Control Panel
Items\Performance Information and Tools\Advanced Tools for Performance,
turned off indexing, and installed Avast anti-virus), but that is pretty
much it under Windows 7.

It is still a bit sluggish but everything except Thunderbird runs pretty
well. As Thunderbird will suddenly freeze up for like 30 seconds or so
while writing this post. Copying and pasting to Notepad and editing this
post there is flawless. No delays or anything.

I was just running this portable Thunderbird on one of my XP SP2
machines for a few hours earlier running an Intel T5600 (Core2 Duo @
1.83GHz and I didn't see a problem. Although this brand new Dell,
Thunderbird is just awful! I seem to recall the same problem (but not as
bad) on my T7400 (also Core2 Duo but faster) running Windows 7 or Windows 8.

This prevents a huge problem for me. As Thunderbird seems fine on my XP
machines, but they also run OE6 which I rather use. But my Windows 7 and
Windows 8 machines, Thunderbird freezes up from time to time. Where OE6
won't run.

I'll jump to my Windows 8 machine for a few hours and see what happens
there.

--
Bill
Dell Latitute Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('11 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB - Windows 7 SP1

[Alias[_43_]]

On 12/8/2012 9:11 PM, BillW50 wrote:
> On 12/8/2012 6:26 AM, Alias wrote:
>> On 12/8/2012 12:40 PM, BillW50 wrote:
>>> In , Alias typed:
>>>> On 12/8/2012 10:43 AM, BillW50 wrote:
>>>>> On 12/8/2012 12:49 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>>> "R. H. Breener" wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm hoping I can get some information for a friend who just
>>>>>>> bought a desktop with W-8. He wants to do as I did with the
>>>>>>> email program and that is run WindowsMail or OutlookExpress
>>>>>>> on his new PC. I told him I seriously doubt OE would run on
>>>>>>> any of the new OSs, but I would ask about WindowsMail. Not
>>>>>>> WindowsLiveMail. Does anyone know if he can get it to work
>>>>>>> like those of us with W-7?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Introduce your friend to Mozilla's Thunderbird...
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been running Thunderbird since v1.5 and I wished I never
>>>>> bothered with it at all. After all of these years it is still
>>>>> clumsy to use and slow as molasses. And they can never get it
>>>>> right and keep releasing bug fixes like crazy. Just in the last
>>>>> three years, they went from v3 to v17. That's just insane!
>>>>> Maybe Mozilla might get it right around version 93.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only thing it does right is to also work as a portable
>>>>> application. That makes syncing between machines very easy. And
>>>>> I thought it was slow on my 6 year old machines. But it is just
>>>>> awful on my new Intel Atom Z670 slate tablets. Heck the editor
>>>>> sometimes freezes for 30 to 45 seconds at a time on these
>>>>> machines. Mozilla really needs to get some better programmers
>>>>> that actually knows what they are doing. :-(
>>>>
>>>> Well, if something doesn't work for Bill the Braggart, you know
>>>> it will work for everyone else. I've been using T-Bird and its
>>>> predecessors for years and it isn't slow at all.
>>>
>>> You are also an admitted pirate,
>>
>> A lie.
>>
>>> thief,
>>
>> A lie.
>>
>>> cheat,
>>
>> A lie
>>
>>> and have no respect for honesty and truth.
>>
>> The irony!
>>
>>> So no surprise there.
>>>
>>
>> What's no surprise is you can't configure T-Bird to work properly
>> and, well, you're a liar.
>
> I am not sure why somebody like you wants so badly to prove they are
> such a clueless dork, but ok. And any half-wit could quickly in 0.13 of
> a second search under Google 'Thunderbird slow editor' and find over 2
> million hits. Heck there is a program (called ThunderFix) to delete TB
> index files because TB keeps corrupting them and causing TB to run
> slowly. Of course, dorky Alias doesn't know any of this because Alias is
> too lazy to spend 0.13 second of their life to be educated.

I have no need. My T-Bird installs are quite fast on XP, 7 and Linux.
You must have found more dorks like you who can't configure T-Bird
properly and it's not a big deal that Google takes such a short time to
show you its search results.

>
> And if you look at Amplicate's hate Thunderbird website, you will find
> 49% hate Thunderbird. And the main reason is because it is too slow. And
> if you check out Amplicate's love Thunderbird website, only 51% love it.
> So I don't know why you are so out of touch with reality? Maybe you need
> to leave your room once in awhile and take a walk outside. ;-)
>
> http://amplicate.com/hate/thunderbird
> http://amplicate.com/love/thunderbird
>

Sorry, chum, you lied about me and don't even have the balls to
apologize or even mention it. You're a braggart and anyone with any
sense can use T-Bird without any problems.

I am sure I walk around outside much more than you do. I haven't owned a
car in over two decades.

--
Alias

[BillW50]

On 12/8/2012 5:47 PM, Alias wrote:
> On 12/8/2012 9:11 PM, BillW50 wrote:
>> On 12/8/2012 6:26 AM, Alias wrote:
>>> On 12/8/2012 12:40 PM, BillW50 wrote:
>>>> In , Alias typed:
>>>>> On 12/8/2012 10:43 AM, BillW50 wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/8/2012 12:49 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>>>> "R. H. Breener" wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm hoping I can get some information for a friend who just
>>>>>>>> bought a desktop with W-8. He wants to do as I did with the
>>>>>>>> email program and that is run WindowsMail or OutlookExpress
>>>>>>>> on his new PC. I told him I seriously doubt OE would run on
>>>>>>>> any of the new OSs, but I would ask about WindowsMail. Not
>>>>>>>> WindowsLiveMail. Does anyone know if he can get it to work
>>>>>>>> like those of us with W-7?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Introduce your friend to Mozilla's Thunderbird...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been running Thunderbird since v1.5 and I wished I never
>>>>>> bothered with it at all. After all of these years it is still
>>>>>> clumsy to use and slow as molasses. And they can never get it
>>>>>> right and keep releasing bug fixes like crazy. Just in the last
>>>>>> three years, they went from v3 to v17. That's just insane!
>>>>>> Maybe Mozilla might get it right around version 93.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only thing it does right is to also work as a portable
>>>>>> application. That makes syncing between machines very easy. And
>>>>>> I thought it was slow on my 6 year old machines. But it is just
>>>>>> awful on my new Intel Atom Z670 slate tablets. Heck the editor
>>>>>> sometimes freezes for 30 to 45 seconds at a time on these
>>>>>> machines. Mozilla really needs to get some better programmers
>>>>>> that actually knows what they are doing. :-(
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, if something doesn't work for Bill the Braggart, you know
>>>>> it will work for everyone else. I've been using T-Bird and its
>>>>> predecessors for years and it isn't slow at all.
>>>>
>>>> You are also an admitted pirate,
>>>
>>> A lie.
>>>
>>>> thief,
>>>
>>> A lie.
>>>
>>>> cheat,
>>>
>>> A lie
>>>
>>>> and have no respect for honesty and truth.
>>>
>>> The irony!
>>>
>>>> So no surprise there.
>>>>
>>>
>>> What's no surprise is you can't configure T-Bird to work properly
>>> and, well, you're a liar.
>>
>> I am not sure why somebody like you wants so badly to prove they are
>> such a clueless dork, but ok. And any half-wit could quickly in 0.13 of
>> a second search under Google 'Thunderbird slow editor' and find over 2
>> million hits. Heck there is a program (called ThunderFix) to delete TB
>> index files because TB keeps corrupting them and causing TB to run
>> slowly. Of course, dorky Alias doesn't know any of this because Alias is
>> too lazy to spend 0.13 second of their life to be educated.
>
> I have no need. My T-Bird installs are quite fast on XP, 7 and Linux.
> You must have found more dorks like you who can't configure T-Bird
> properly and it's not a big deal that Google takes such a short time to
> show you its search results.
>
>>
>> And if you look at Amplicate's hate Thunderbird website, you will find
>> 49% hate Thunderbird. And the main reason is because it is too slow. And
>> if you check out Amplicate's love Thunderbird website, only 51% love it.
>> So I don't know why you are so out of touch with reality? Maybe you need
>> to leave your room once in awhile and take a walk outside. ;-)
>>
>> http://amplicate.com/hate/thunderbird
>> http://amplicate.com/love/thunderbird
>>
>
> Sorry, chum, you lied about me and don't even have the balls to
> apologize or even mention it. You're a braggart and anyone with any
> sense can use T-Bird without any problems.
>
> I am sure I walk around outside much more than you do. I haven't owned a
> car in over two decades.

You sure love making up crap about people that isn't true. And I never
lied about you ever! Everything I said is what you said that are in the
archives. And no judge nor jury will ever take your side. So how do you
explain to us that you are not nothing but a low life troll? Go ahead
and plead your case. Although I don't believe you could ever pull it off.

Heck, just in the Windows 7 newsgroup and claimed that I said I don't
use AV or a firewall. I never said such a thing ever! You just continue
to be a total dork and you don't care how stupid that makes you sound.

Aren't you afraid you are going to **** off the wrong people and they
take you for a little ride to be never seen from again?

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8

[Alias[_43_]]

On 12/9/2012 12:57 AM, BillW50 wrote:
> On 12/8/2012 5:47 PM, Alias wrote:
>> On 12/8/2012 9:11 PM, BillW50 wrote:
>>> On 12/8/2012 6:26 AM, Alias wrote:
>>>> On 12/8/2012 12:40 PM, BillW50 wrote:
>>>>> In , Alias typed:
>>>>>> On 12/8/2012 10:43 AM, BillW50 wrote:
>>>>>>> On 12/8/2012 12:49 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>>>>> "R. H. Breener" wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm hoping I can get some information for a friend who just
>>>>>>>>> bought a desktop with W-8. He wants to do as I did with the
>>>>>>>>> email program and that is run WindowsMail or OutlookExpress
>>>>>>>>> on his new PC. I told him I seriously doubt OE would run on
>>>>>>>>> any of the new OSs, but I would ask about WindowsMail. Not
>>>>>>>>> WindowsLiveMail. Does anyone know if he can get it to work
>>>>>>>>> like those of us with W-7?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Introduce your friend to Mozilla's Thunderbird...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've been running Thunderbird since v1.5 and I wished I never
>>>>>>> bothered with it at all. After all of these years it is still
>>>>>>> clumsy to use and slow as molasses. And they can never get it
>>>>>>> right and keep releasing bug fixes like crazy. Just in the last
>>>>>>> three years, they went from v3 to v17. That's just insane!
>>>>>>> Maybe Mozilla might get it right around version 93.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only thing it does right is to also work as a portable
>>>>>>> application. That makes syncing between machines very easy. And
>>>>>>> I thought it was slow on my 6 year old machines. But it is just
>>>>>>> awful on my new Intel Atom Z670 slate tablets. Heck the editor
>>>>>>> sometimes freezes for 30 to 45 seconds at a time on these
>>>>>>> machines. Mozilla really needs to get some better programmers
>>>>>>> that actually knows what they are doing. :-(
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, if something doesn't work for Bill the Braggart, you know
>>>>>> it will work for everyone else. I've been using T-Bird and its
>>>>>> predecessors for years and it isn't slow at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are also an admitted pirate,
>>>>
>>>> A lie.
>>>>
>>>>> thief,
>>>>
>>>> A lie.
>>>>
>>>>> cheat,
>>>>
>>>> A lie
>>>>
>>>>> and have no respect for honesty and truth.
>>>>
>>>> The irony!
>>>>
>>>>> So no surprise there.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What's no surprise is you can't configure T-Bird to work properly
>>>> and, well, you're a liar.
>>>
>>> I am not sure why somebody like you wants so badly to prove they are
>>> such a clueless dork, but ok. And any half-wit could quickly in 0.13 of
>>> a second search under Google 'Thunderbird slow editor' and find over 2
>>> million hits. Heck there is a program (called ThunderFix) to delete TB
>>> index files because TB keeps corrupting them and causing TB to run
>>> slowly. Of course, dorky Alias doesn't know any of this because Alias is
>>> too lazy to spend 0.13 second of their life to be educated.
>>
>> I have no need. My T-Bird installs are quite fast on XP, 7 and Linux.
>> You must have found more dorks like you who can't configure T-Bird
>> properly and it's not a big deal that Google takes such a short time to
>> show you its search results.
>>
>>>
>>> And if you look at Amplicate's hate Thunderbird website, you will find
>>> 49% hate Thunderbird. And the main reason is because it is too slow. And
>>> if you check out Amplicate's love Thunderbird website, only 51% love it.
>>> So I don't know why you are so out of touch with reality? Maybe you need
>>> to leave your room once in awhile and take a walk outside. ;-)
>>>
>>> http://amplicate.com/hate/thunderbird
>>> http://amplicate.com/love/thunderbird
>>>
>>
>> Sorry, chum, you lied about me and don't even have the balls to
>> apologize or even mention it. You're a braggart and anyone with any
>> sense can use T-Bird without any problems.
>>
>> I am sure I walk around outside much more than you do. I haven't owned a
>> car in over two decades.
>
> You sure love making up crap about people that isn't true.

The irony!

> You are also an admitted pirate,

A lie.

> thief,

A lie.

> cheat,

A lie

> and have no respect for honesty and truth.
And I never
> lied about you ever!

See above and below.

> Everything I said is what you said that are in the
> archives.

Liar.

> And no judge nor jury will ever take your side.

And which side might that be?

> So how do you
> explain to us that you are not nothing but a low life troll?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

> Go ahead
> and plead your case.
> Although I don't believe you could ever pull it off.

What case?

>
> Heck, just in the Windows 7 newsgroup and claimed that I said I don't
> use AV or a firewall. I never said such a thing ever! You just continue
> to be a total dork and you don't care how stupid that makes you sound.

See above, and for your convenience, below.

>
> Aren't you afraid you are going to **** off the wrong people and they
> take you for a little ride to be never seen from again?

Are you threatening me?

> You are also an admitted pirate,

A lie.

> thief,

A lie.

> cheat,

A lie

> and have no respect for honesty and truth.

--
Alias

[R. H. Breener[_2_]]

He asked about OE and WM, as he, like so many others, doesn't want WLM.
I'm going to forward him your entire post. I haven't seen W-8 or whatever
email program it comes with so can't comment. I wish he would use Usenet,
but I don't want to confuse him even more.



"VanguardLH" > wrote in message
...
> "R. H. Breener" wrote:
>
>> I'm hoping I can get some information for a friend who just bought a
>> desktop with W-8. He wants to do as I did with the email program and
>> that is run WindowsMail or OutlookExpress on his new PC. I told him
>> I seriously doubt OE would run on any of the new OSs, but I would ask
>> about WindowsMail. Not WindowsLiveMail. Does anyone know if he can
>> get it to work like those of us with W-7?
>
> Introduce your friend to Mozilla's Thunderbird. It's GUI will be
> familiar to your friend. The biggest different your friend is likely to
> encounter is defining accounts (where SMTP servers are defined
> separately of the POP/IMAP account and you select which SMTP server to
> use with which POP/IMAP account). Of course, the difference is only
> encounted the number of times you have accounts to add into Thunderbird.
> Once they're defined, it's unlikely you'll have to edit them later.
>
> WLM is also similar to OE but you chose to omit that choice on behalf of
> your friend although your friend might still like it (you did not say
> your friend told you not to suggest WLM). WLM is not recommended for
> Usenet posting due to Microsoft's dropping of proper indentation of
> quoted content that the user is now expected to perform. You asked
> about an e-mail client.
>
> If you want to suggest to your friend a free equivalent of MS Outlook
> (e-mail, better notes, calendar, task/todo list, contacts) then have
> your friend look at EssentialPIM (EPIM). Show your friend the
> screenshots at http://www.essentialpim.com/pc-version/screenshots. I
> suspect there are different pane arrangements available if your friend
> doesn't like the default. To compare the free versus paid versions, see
> http://www.essentialpim.com/pc-version/pro-vs-free. For personal use,
> your friend can start with the free version and decide later if he/she
> wants to pay $40 which is much cheaper than buying standalone Outlook.
>
> If I were to drop the Outlook that I already have (as part of the MS
> Office suite), the free version of EPIM is a strong candidate for me.
> Both EPIM and Tbird are free and I, as a user, am not interested that
> one is closed versus open regarding source code. How many of your
> non-developer friends do you know that download Tbird's source code
> (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Developer_Guide/Source_Code/Downloading_Source_Archives)?
> EPIM includes calendaring. With Thunderbird, you have to install an
> add-on (Lightning) or get a derivative of Tbird, like Sunbird. I have
> not found a feature-by-feature comparison between the two to see which
> one might have more features (and those that I want and would use, and
> ignore the surplus).
>
> EPIM is available as an installed or portable version with each version
> shown on the same download page (http://www.essentialpim.com/get-epim).
> Tbird has both types, too. For Tbird's portable version, you can go to
> http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/thunderbird_portable or to
> PortableApps.com. Some folks like to walk around with a USB flash drive
> to run the portable version of their e-mail client from there so all
> their e-mails are locally in one place no matter on which computer they
> ran the e-mail program; however, with proper configuration of POP3
> settings or by using IMAP, you can keep multiple installed copies of the
> e-mail client in sync. A portable version works around computers where
> you cannot install software or don't want to, like you don't want to
> pollute your friend's laptop while sharing it on vacation. Just be
> aware that many schools, Internet cafes, libraries, other publicly
> accessible computers, or your friend's computer may have their USB ports
> disabled. If they locked down their computer, you can't install
> software on those computers and the USB ports are disabled or you're not
> permitted to run programs from there.

[..winston]

"R. H. Breener" wrote in message ...

>
He asked about OE and WM, as he, like so many others, doesn't want WLM.
I'm going to forward him your entire post. I haven't seen W-8 or whatever
email program it comes with so can't comment. I wish he would use Usenet,
but I don't want to confuse him even more.
>

Windows 8 includes an email app (not full or simple mapi client) called Windows Mail (not to be confused with Vista similar named
Windows Mail)

The Mail app in Win8 does not include a newsreader and only supports the following type of accounts
Hotmail type accounts (Hotmail, Live, Msn, Outlook.com)
Outlook 365
Exchange
Google
Yahoo
AOL
Exchange Active Sync
IMAP

***It does not support POP3***

It is capable of the MAILTO URL:MailTo Protocol
Is is not capable of the Send Mail (aka SENDTO) Send Mail command

The Win8 Mail app is more closely related to the Windows Phone email app than a full featured client.

--
....winston
msft mvp

[XS11E]

"..winston" > wrote:

> Windows 8 includes an email app (not full or simple mapi client)
> called Windows Mail (not to be confused with Vista similar named
> Windows Mail)
>
> The Mail app in Win8 does not include a newsreader and only
> supports the following type of accounts Hotmail type accounts
> (Hotmail, Live, Msn, Outlook.com) Outlook 365
> Exchange
> Google
> Yahoo
> AOL
> Exchange Active Sync
> IMAP
>
> ***It does not support POP3***

I'm wondering what was the reason(s) behind that? My ISP has only POP3
mail, IMAP is not offered.

It creates no problem for me as I always use a 3rd party email
application (Pegasus Mail) and have since DOS 5 days but it just seems
odd that MSFT would shut out POP3 users?


--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

[BillW50]

On 12/9/2012 11:23 AM, XS11E wrote:
> > wrote:
>
>> Windows 8 includes an email app (not full or simple mapi client)
>> called Windows Mail (not to be confused with Vista similar named
>> Windows Mail)
>>
>> The Mail app in Win8 does not include a newsreader and only
>> supports the following type of accounts Hotmail type accounts
>> (Hotmail, Live, Msn, Outlook.com) Outlook 365
>> Exchange
>> Google
>> Yahoo
>> AOL
>> Exchange Active Sync
>> IMAP
>>
>> ***It does not support POP3***
>
> I'm wondering what was the reason(s) behind that? My ISP has only POP3
> mail, IMAP is not offered.
>
> It creates no problem for me as I always use a 3rd party email
> application (Pegasus Mail) and have since DOS 5 days but it just seems
> odd that MSFT would shut out POP3 users?

Well Microsoft did shutout Start Button users, killed their newsgroup
servers, killed off many of their long product lines such as Flight
Simulator (which was older than Windows itself), and the list goes on
and on. So adding POP3 support to the already long list doesn't surprise
me very much.

But then again, Metro Apps are still in their infancy. And I haven't
seen any of them as full featured as Windows apps are yet. I remember
when Windows apps were new, they too were not very full featured as much
as DOS apps were back then. But after time, they were and surpassed DOS
apps. I would think the same will happen with Metro Apps as well.

Another thought is that POP3 I believe is slowly dying. And Microsoft
doesn't seem to like to support anything that is falling from grace.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 7 SP1

[Tom Lake]

"..winston" wrote in message ...

"R. H. Breener" wrote in message ...

>
He asked about OE and WM, as he, like so many others, doesn't want WLM.
I'm going to forward him your entire post. I haven't seen W-8 or whatever
email program it comes with so can't comment. I wish he would use Usenet,
but I don't want to confuse him even more.
>

Windows 8 includes an email app (not full or simple mapi client) called
Windows Mail (not to be confused with Vista similar named
Windows Mail)

The Mail app in Win8 does not include a newsreader and only supports the
following type of accounts
Hotmail type accounts (Hotmail, Live, Msn, Outlook.com)
Outlook 365
Exchange
Google
Yahoo
AOL
Exchange Active Sync
IMAP

***It does not support POP3***

It is capable of the MAILTO URL:MailTo Protocol
Is is not capable of the Send Mail (aka SENDTO) Send Mail command

The Win8 Mail app is more closely related to the Windows Phone email app
than a full featured client.

--
....winston
msft mvp

If you have a Hotmail (or Outlook.com) account You can add POP3 accounts to
Mail. It's just not obvious how.

http://www.howtogeek.com/130516/how-to-access-pop3-email-accounts-in-windows-8/

Tom Lake

[..winston]

"Tom Lake" wrote in message ...

"..winston" wrote in message ...

***The Win8 Mail app does not support POP3***

> If you have a Hotmail (or Outlook.com) account You can add
> POP3 accounts to Mail. It's just not obvious how.
> http://www.howtogeek.com/130516/how-to-access-pop3-email-accounts-in-windows-8/

Hotmail Help provides the directions
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/hotmail/other-accounts-mail-ui

Note: One subtle change that your referenced article and the above Hotmail Help article have yet to revise (The line item in each
'Sending/receiving email from other accounts' is incorrect due to a nomenclature revision made to the settings page. The correct
route as of a few days ago is to select 'Your email accounts' then choose the option for 'Add a send-and-receive account if you
are sending and receiving email from your POP account.'


Likewise one can use Google to 'pop' their 3rd party POP3 only account then setup the Google (Gmail) account in Win8's mail app.

--
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps

[charlie[_2_]]

On 12/9/2012 12:23 PM, XS11E wrote:
> "..winston" > wrote:
>
>> Windows 8 includes an email app (not full or simple mapi client)
>> called Windows Mail (not to be confused with Vista similar named
>> Windows Mail)
>>
>> The Mail app in Win8 does not include a newsreader and only
>> supports the following type of accounts Hotmail type accounts
>> (Hotmail, Live, Msn, Outlook.com) Outlook 365
>> Exchange
>> Google
>> Yahoo
>> AOL
>> Exchange Active Sync
>> IMAP
>>
>> ***It does not support POP3***
>
> I'm wondering what was the reason(s) behind that? My ISP has only POP3
> mail, IMAP is not offered.
>
> It creates no problem for me as I always use a 3rd party email
> application (Pegasus Mail) and have since DOS 5 days but it just seems
> odd that MSFT would shut out POP3 users?
>
>

There was a time when Microsoft wanted to get rid of their POP3 servers.
I believe that there was enough flack that they gave up for the time
being. It wouldn't surprise me to see it go away, much as the MS news
servers did.

[Alias[_43_]]

On 12/9/2012 1:31 AM, Alias wrote:
> On 12/9/2012 12:57 AM, BillW50 wrote:
>> On 12/8/2012 5:47 PM, Alias wrote:
>>> On 12/8/2012 9:11 PM, BillW50 wrote:
>>>> On 12/8/2012 6:26 AM, Alias wrote:
>>>>> On 12/8/2012 12:40 PM, BillW50 wrote:
>>>>>> In , Alias typed:
>>>>>>> On 12/8/2012 10:43 AM, BillW50 wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 12/8/2012 12:49 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "R. H. Breener" wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm hoping I can get some information for a friend who just
>>>>>>>>>> bought a desktop with W-8. He wants to do as I did with the
>>>>>>>>>> email program and that is run WindowsMail or OutlookExpress
>>>>>>>>>> on his new PC. I told him I seriously doubt OE would run on
>>>>>>>>>> any of the new OSs, but I would ask about WindowsMail. Not
>>>>>>>>>> WindowsLiveMail. Does anyone know if he can get it to work
>>>>>>>>>> like those of us with W-7?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Introduce your friend to Mozilla's Thunderbird...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've been running Thunderbird since v1.5 and I wished I never
>>>>>>>> bothered with it at all. After all of these years it is still
>>>>>>>> clumsy to use and slow as molasses. And they can never get it
>>>>>>>> right and keep releasing bug fixes like crazy. Just in the last
>>>>>>>> three years, they went from v3 to v17. That's just insane!
>>>>>>>> Maybe Mozilla might get it right around version 93.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The only thing it does right is to also work as a portable
>>>>>>>> application. That makes syncing between machines very easy. And
>>>>>>>> I thought it was slow on my 6 year old machines. But it is just
>>>>>>>> awful on my new Intel Atom Z670 slate tablets. Heck the editor
>>>>>>>> sometimes freezes for 30 to 45 seconds at a time on these
>>>>>>>> machines. Mozilla really needs to get some better programmers
>>>>>>>> that actually knows what they are doing. :-(
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, if something doesn't work for Bill the Braggart, you know
>>>>>>> it will work for everyone else. I've been using T-Bird and its
>>>>>>> predecessors for years and it isn't slow at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are also an admitted pirate,
>>>>>
>>>>> A lie.
>>>>>
>>>>>> thief,
>>>>>
>>>>> A lie.
>>>>>
>>>>>> cheat,
>>>>>
>>>>> A lie
>>>>>
>>>>>> and have no respect for honesty and truth.
>>>>>
>>>>> The irony!
>>>>>
>>>>>> So no surprise there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What's no surprise is you can't configure T-Bird to work properly
>>>>> and, well, you're a liar.
>>>>
>>>> I am not sure why somebody like you wants so badly to prove they are
>>>> such a clueless dork, but ok. And any half-wit could quickly in 0.13 of
>>>> a second search under Google 'Thunderbird slow editor' and find over 2
>>>> million hits. Heck there is a program (called ThunderFix) to delete TB
>>>> index files because TB keeps corrupting them and causing TB to run
>>>> slowly. Of course, dorky Alias doesn't know any of this because
>>>> Alias is
>>>> too lazy to spend 0.13 second of their life to be educated.
>>>
>>> I have no need. My T-Bird installs are quite fast on XP, 7 and Linux.
>>> You must have found more dorks like you who can't configure T-Bird
>>> properly and it's not a big deal that Google takes such a short time to
>>> show you its search results.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> And if you look at Amplicate's hate Thunderbird website, you will find
>>>> 49% hate Thunderbird. And the main reason is because it is too slow.
>>>> And
>>>> if you check out Amplicate's love Thunderbird website, only 51% love
>>>> it.
>>>> So I don't know why you are so out of touch with reality? Maybe you
>>>> need
>>>> to leave your room once in awhile and take a walk outside. ;-)
>>>>
>>>> http://amplicate.com/hate/thunderbird
>>>> http://amplicate.com/love/thunderbird
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry, chum, you lied about me and don't even have the balls to
>>> apologize or even mention it. You're a braggart and anyone with any
>>> sense can use T-Bird without any problems.
>>>
>>> I am sure I walk around outside much more than you do. I haven't owned a
>>> car in over two decades.
>>
>> You sure love making up crap about people that isn't true.
>
> The irony!
>
> > You are also an admitted pirate,
>
> A lie.
>
> > thief,
>
> A lie.
>
> > cheat,
>
> A lie
>
> > and have no respect for honesty and truth.
> And I never
>> lied about you ever!
>
> See above and below.
>
>> Everything I said is what you said that are in the
>> archives.
>
> Liar.
>
>> And no judge nor jury will ever take your side.
>
> And which side might that be?
>
>> So how do you
>> explain to us that you are not nothing but a low life troll?
>
> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
>
>> Go ahead
>> and plead your case.
>> Although I don't believe you could ever pull it off.
>
> What case?
>
>>
>> Heck, just in the Windows 7 newsgroup and claimed that I said I don't
>> use AV or a firewall. I never said such a thing ever! You just continue
>> to be a total dork and you don't care how stupid that makes you sound.
>
> See above, and for your convenience, below.
>
>>
>> Aren't you afraid you are going to **** off the wrong people and they
>> take you for a little ride to be never seen from again?
>
> Are you threatening me?
>
> > You are also an admitted pirate,
>
> A lie.
>
> > thief,
>
> A lie.
>
> > cheat,
>
> A lie
>
> > and have no respect for honesty and truth.
>

My, my, Billy boy does his disappearing act when totally refuted.

--
Alias

[BillW50]

In ,
Alias typed:
>
> My, my, Billy boy does his disappearing act when totally refuted.

Naw... people who rather act like an animal isn't worth wasting time
helping. Bye.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2

[Alias[_43_]]

On 12/10/2012 12:40 PM, BillW50 wrote:
> In ,
> Alias typed:
>>
>> My, my, Billy boy does his disappearing act when totally refuted.
>
> Naw... people who rather act like an animal isn't worth wasting time
> helping. Bye.
>

Translation: Billy boy has his tail betwixt his lying legs and knows
he's been shown up big time. You keep giving bad advice and I'll keep
pointing out that it is bad advice. Deal?

--
Alias

[Ken Blake[_4_]]

On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 10:23:20 -0700, XS11E >
wrote:

> "..winston" > wrote:

> > ***It does not support POP3***
>
> I'm wondering what was the reason(s) behind that?


I've wondered about that too. But I don't know the answer, and I doubt
very much that Microsoft will ever tell us the reason.


--
Ken Blake

[XS11E]

Ken Blake > wrote:

> On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 10:23:20 -0700, XS11E >
> wrote:
>
>> "..winston" > wrote:
>
>> > ***It does not support POP3***
>>
>> I'm wondering what was the reason(s) behind that?
>
> I've wondered about that too. But I don't know the answer, and I
> doubt very much that Microsoft will ever tell us the reason.

I agree, but it's unfortunate because POP3 is all I have. There is
NO alternative in my area, I believe that Century Link, a DSL
service, offers POP3 only also.

Fortunately, Outlook 2007 still supports POP3, not sure about later
versions. All 3rd party email programs also support POP3 AFAIK....

....so...

could it be that MSFT recognzes that it's email programs, Windows
Mail/News, Outlook Express, Windows Mail, Windows Live Mail and
whatever is in Windows 8 (I've never even opened it!) are not very
good and they expect everyone to use something else? <G>


--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

[Canuck57[_5_]]

On 07/12/2012 10:26 PM, R. H. Breener wrote:
> I'm hoping I can get some information for a friend who just bought a
> desktop with W-8. He wants to do as I did with the email program and
> that is run WindowsMail or OutlookExpress on his new PC. I told him I
> seriously doubt OE would run on any of the new OSs, but I would ask
> about WindowsMail. Not WindowsLiveMail. Does anyone know if he can get
> it to work like those of us with W-7?

Windowslive sucks, use Thunderbird.

--
Liberal-socialism is a great idea so long as the credit is good and
other people pay for it. When the credit runs out and those that pay
for it leave, they can all share having nothing but debt and discontentment.

[Canuck57[_5_]]

On 08/12/2012 5:26 AM, Alias wrote:
> On 12/8/2012 12:40 PM, BillW50 wrote:
>> In ,
>> Alias typed:
>>> On 12/8/2012 10:43 AM, BillW50 wrote:
>>>> On 12/8/2012 12:49 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>> "R. H. Breener" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm hoping I can get some information for a friend who just bought
>>>>>> a desktop with W-8. He wants to do as I did with the email program
>>>>>> and that is run WindowsMail or OutlookExpress on his new PC. I
>>>>>> told him I seriously doubt OE would run on any of the new OSs, but
>>>>>> I would ask about WindowsMail. Not WindowsLiveMail. Does anyone
>>>>>> know if he can get it to work like those of us with W-7?
>>>>>
>>>>> Introduce your friend to Mozilla's Thunderbird...
>>>>
>>>> I've been running Thunderbird since v1.5 and I wished I never
>>>> bothered with it at all. After all of these years it is still clumsy
>>>> to use and slow as molasses. And they can never get it right and
>>>> keep releasing bug fixes like crazy. Just in the last three years,
>>>> they went from v3 to v17. That's just insane! Maybe Mozilla might
>>>> get it right around version 93.
>>>>
>>>> The only thing it does right is to also work as a portable
>>>> application. That makes syncing between machines very easy. And I
>>>> thought it was slow on my 6 year old machines. But it is just awful
>>>> on my new Intel Atom Z670 slate tablets. Heck the editor sometimes
>>>> freezes for 30 to 45 seconds at a time on these machines. Mozilla
>>>> really needs to get some better programmers that actually knows what
>>>> they are doing. :-(
>>>
>>> Well, if something doesn't work for Bill the Braggart, you know it
>>> will work for everyone else. I've been using T-Bird and its
>>> predecessors for years and it isn't slow at all.
>>
>> You are also an admitted pirate,
>
> A lie.
>
>> thief,
>
> A lie.
>
>> cheat,
>
> A lie
>
>> and have no respect for
>> honesty and truth.
>
> The irony!
>
>> So no surprise there.
>>
>
> What's no surprise is you can't configure T-Bird to work properly and,
> well, you're a liar.

Alias, I see Microsoft diety worshipers are still idiots. Are you still
in Spain?


--
Liberal-socialism is a great idea so long as the credit is good and
other people pay for it. When the credit runs out and those that pay
for it leave, they can all share having nothing but debt and discontentment.

[Alias[_43_]]

On 12/10/2012 11:37 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
> Alias, I see Microsoft diety worshipers are still idiots. Are you still
> in Spain?

Yep.

--
Alias

[Ken Blake[_4_]]

On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 11:08:43 -0700, XS11E >
wrote:

> Ken Blake > wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 10:23:20 -0700, XS11E >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> "..winston" > wrote:
> >
> >> > ***It does not support POP3***
> >>
> >> I'm wondering what was the reason(s) behind that?
> >
> > I've wondered about that too. But I don't know the answer, and I
> > doubt very much that Microsoft will ever tell us the reason.
>
> I agree, but it's unfortunate because POP3 is all I have. There is
> NO alternative in my area, I believe that Century Link, a DSL
> service, offers POP3 only also.
>
> Fortunately, Outlook 2007 still supports POP3, not sure about later
> versions.


Later versions--both Outlook 2010 and Outlook 2013--also support it.


> All 3rd party email programs also support POP3 AFAIK....


Same here. I don't know of any that don't either.


--
Ken Blake

[R. H. Breener[_2_]]

"Tom Lake" > wrote in message
...
> "..winston" wrote in message ...
>
> "R. H. Breener" wrote in message ...
>
>>
> He asked about OE and WM, as he, like so many others, doesn't want WLM.
> I'm going to forward him your entire post. I haven't seen W-8 or whatever
> email program it comes with so can't comment. I wish he would use Usenet,
> but I don't want to confuse him even more.
>>
>
> Windows 8 includes an email app (not full or simple mapi client) called
> Windows Mail (not to be confused with Vista similar named
> Windows Mail)
>
> The Mail app in Win8 does not include a newsreader and only supports the
> following type of accounts
> Hotmail type accounts (Hotmail, Live, Msn, Outlook.com)
> Outlook 365
> Exchange
> Google
> Yahoo
> AOL
> Exchange Active Sync
> IMAP
>
> ***It does not support POP3***
>
> It is capable of the MAILTO URL:MailTo Protocol
> Is is not capable of the Send Mail (aka SENDTO) Send Mail command
>
> The Win8 Mail app is more closely related to the Windows Phone email app
> than a full featured client.
>
> --
> ...winston
> msft mvp
>
> If you have a Hotmail (or Outlook.com) account You can add POP3 accounts
> to Mail. It's just not obvious how.
>
> http://www.howtogeek.com/130516/how-to-access-pop3-email-accounts-in-windows-8/
>
> Tom Lake
>

I'm forwarding all this to him. I hope it helps.

[R. H. Breener[_2_]]

"Canuck57" > wrote in message
...
> On 07/12/2012 10:26 PM, R. H. Breener wrote:
>> I'm hoping I can get some information for a friend who just bought a
>> desktop with W-8. He wants to do as I did with the email program and
>> that is run WindowsMail or OutlookExpress on his new PC. I told him I
>> seriously doubt OE would run on any of the new OSs, but I would ask
>> about WindowsMail. Not WindowsLiveMail. Does anyone know if he can get
>> it to work like those of us with W-7?
>
> Windowslive sucks, use Thunderbird.
>
> --
> Liberal-socialism is a great idea so long as the credit is good and other
> people pay for it. When the credit runs out and those that pay for it
> leave, they can all share having nothing but debt and discontentment.

This info isn't for me. It's for someone else who just got a new PC w/W-8.
I have a fairly new PC with W-7. I'll save the info since some day I'll most
likely need the information for myself. That is unless I switch to a MAC.

[R. H. Breener[_2_]]

"Frank" > wrote in message
...
>
> "R. H. Breener" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I'm hoping I can get some information for a friend who just bought a
>> desktop
>> with W-8. He wants to do as I did with the email program and that is run
>> WindowsMail or OutlookExpress on his new PC. I told him I seriously
>> doubt OE
>> would run on any of the new OSs, but I would ask about WindowsMail. Not
>> WindowsLiveMail. Does anyone know if he can get it to work like those of
>> us
>> with W-7?
>
>
> Hi R H,
>
> Yes you can most definitely use your Vista Windows Mail email program on
> Windows 8 as many have done already, it's almost the same procedure just
> like I
> see 'You' did the other day on Windows 7 over in the alt.windows7.general
> group. Many people have and use WM on Windows 8 just fine!
> It's almost the same procedure as you've done on Windows 7, but it's just
> a
> little different in the beginning. But seeing that you had so much
> problems
> with understanding how to do the simple tasks in the Windows 7 tutorial
> may
> mean that you haven't the techie experience yet to pull it off on Windows
> 8
> too. You won't find the support for it especially on this group like you
> did the other day in the other group for something that is so unsupported
> and
> not very well explained on how to accomplish the task. Perhaps at some
> point
> someone will make a detailed tutorial on that Windows 8 forum just like
> they
> did on the Windows 7 forum.
> Anyway you can check how to do it in the below link, realize though it
> seems
> you need to read further than just the first post there, and read the
> whole
> first page of posts and discern the necessary info first before you
> proceed:
> http://www.eightforums.com/browsers-mail/3698-how-use-winmail-windows-8-a.html
>
> Good luck
>

I'm passing all this info' on to him. Does anyone know why MS doesn't have a
working copy for people who want it to download it? It wouldn't cost MS
anything. That's not a monopoly if people choose it for themselves.

[R. H. Breener[_2_]]

"Frank" > wrote in message
...
>
> "R. H. Breener" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I'm hoping I can get some information for a friend who just bought a
>> desktop
>> with W-8. He wants to do as I did with the email program and that is run
>> WindowsMail or OutlookExpress on his new PC. I told him I seriously
>> doubt OE
>> would run on any of the new OSs, but I would ask about WindowsMail. Not
>> WindowsLiveMail. Does anyone know if he can get it to work like those of
>> us
>> with W-7?
>
>
> Hi R H,
>
> Yes you can most definitely use your Vista Windows Mail email program on
> Windows 8 as many have done already, it's almost the same procedure just
> like I
> see 'You' did the other day on Windows 7 over in the alt.windows7.general
> group. Many people have and use WM on Windows 8 just fine!
> It's almost the same procedure as you've done on Windows 7, but it's just
> a
> little different in the beginning. But seeing that you had so much
> problems
> with understanding how to do the simple tasks in the Windows 7 tutorial
> may
> mean that you haven't the techie experience yet to pull it off on Windows
> 8
> too.

He lives too far for me to help. Plus I've not seen W-8 so can't even help
him over the phone.

You won't find the support for it especially on this group like you
> did the other day in the other group for something that is so unsupported
> and
> not very well explained on how to accomplish the task. Perhaps at some
> point
> someone will make a detailed tutorial on that Windows 8 forum just like
> they
> did on the Windows 7 forum.
> Anyway you can check how to do it in the below link, realize though it
> seems
> you need to read further than just the first post there, and read the
> whole
> first page of posts and discern the necessary info first before you
> proceed:
> http://www.eightforums.com/browsers-mail/3698-how-use-winmail-windows-8-a.html
>
> Good luck
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Paul]

R. H. Breener wrote:
>
> "Frank" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "R. H. Breener" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I'm hoping I can get some information for a friend who just bought a
>>> desktop
>>> with W-8. He wants to do as I did with the email program and that is run
>>> WindowsMail or OutlookExpress on his new PC. I told him I seriously
>>> doubt OE
>>> would run on any of the new OSs, but I would ask about WindowsMail. Not
>>> WindowsLiveMail. Does anyone know if he can get it to work like
>>> those of us
>>> with W-7?
>>
>>
>> Hi R H,
>>
>> Yes you can most definitely use your Vista Windows Mail email program on
>> Windows 8 as many have done already, it's almost the same procedure
>> just like I
>> see 'You' did the other day on Windows 7 over in the alt.windows7.general
>> group. Many people have and use WM on Windows 8 just fine!
>> It's almost the same procedure as you've done on Windows 7, but it's
>> just a
>> little different in the beginning. But seeing that you had so much
>> problems
>> with understanding how to do the simple tasks in the Windows 7
>> tutorial may
>> mean that you haven't the techie experience yet to pull it off on
>> Windows 8
>> too.
>
> He lives too far for me to help. Plus I've not seen W-8 so can't even
> help him over the phone.
>
> You won't find the support for it especially on this group like you
>> did the other day in the other group for something that is so
>> unsupported and
>> not very well explained on how to accomplish the task. Perhaps at
>> some point
>> someone will make a detailed tutorial on that Windows 8 forum just
>> like they
>> did on the Windows 7 forum.
>> Anyway you can check how to do it in the below link, realize though it
>> seems
>> you need to read further than just the first post there, and read the
>> whole
>> first page of posts and discern the necessary info first before you
>> proceed:
>> http://www.eightforums.com/browsers-mail/3698-how-use-winmail-windows-8-a.html
>>
>>
>> Good luck
>>

It's probably too late now, but there were preview versions of
Windows 8, if you'd wanted to experiment with it. I have a copy
sitting on one of my disks here. The license for the preview
versions should all be expired sometime in January next year.
Until then, I can still play with it. I think the one I have
is Win8 Release Candidate.

Windows8-ReleasePreview-32bit-English.iso (2,615,529,472 bytes)

Windows8-ReleasePreview-64bit-English.iso (3,515,703,296 bytes)

License key (until mid-January) = TK8TP-9JN6P-7X7WW-RFFTV-B7QPF

Your computer needs NX/XD support for that version (same as
when using the actual released version of Win8). NX/XD is
a hardware feature, typically available in 64 bit generation
CPUs. My P4 in S478 socket, doesn't have that. But my LGA775
socket machines are OK. S754/S939 AMD processors or later,
are also OK. The requirement may not be spelled out
in the Win8 documentation.

*******

As for someone living too far away to help, there is
always remote control software (like perhaps TeamViewer).
The key ingredient there, is a broadband connection.
If a person is on dialup, you're not going to be able
to do very much in any case, at 5KB/sec. Even Windows
Update sucks up too much bandwidth, to be practical to
do in a timely manner under all circumstances. (Imagine
installing a Service Pack, over a dialup modem connection.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teamviewer

*******

The only problem with the suggested "mail hack", is
what happens if there is ever a security update for
the original contents of that folder. That could damage
or blow away todays hacking effort, and require
another reload of the folder.

Paul

[..winston]

"R. H. Breener" wrote in message ...

>> Frank wrote
>> Yes you can most definitely use your Vista Windows Mail email program
>> on Windows 8 as many have done already,


> I'm passing all this info' on to him. Does anyone know why MS doesn't
> have a working copy for people who want it to download it?
> It wouldn't cost MS anything.

I can elaborate to some extent.

Vista Windows Mail is protected code. Microsoft only distributes
code via o/s, software releases, and updates. Since WM was
included in the O/S, it's not MSFT practice to distribute o/s parts
separately as stand-alone software.
-i.e. if you have Vista, you already have the code

Second, MSFT doesn't support the use of Windows Mail on Win8.
- support is different than acknowledging or being aware that
Vista's Windows Mail can be used on Windows 8

Third..Acknowledgement of Windows Mail use has covered a fair
amount of ground since Win7's release.
- To accomplish using Window Mail on Win8 one needs a few
earlier version files. Those files are either obtained from one's
licensed Vista system or elsewhere. Elsewhere would entail
some form of distribution requiring MSFT's permission. At one
time MSFT has requested that those necessary files be removed
from certain sites since permission was not obtained to
distribute their protected code. The gray area started when
updates to those files became available when
included in easily downloadable updates (extraction required)
in publicly available Windows/Microsoft updates.

Finally, as an operating system gets older less effort is
placed on policing distribution of protected code without permission.

With all the above, there is no benefit for MSFT to make those
files available....its easier to acknowledge the possibility and
obvious distribution than to waste any time or expense to meet
a very small need especially when other free or fee based
MSFT email alternatives are available (Windows Live Mail 2012,
Office Outlook with Office suites, Windows 8 Mail app, Hotmail )
for use with Windows 8

--
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps

[Walt[_2_]]

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 02:47:31 -0500, "..winston" >
wrote:

>"R. H. Breener" wrote in message ...
>
>>> Frank wrote
>>> Yes you can most definitely use your Vista Windows Mail email program
>>> on Windows 8 as many have done already,
>
>
>> I'm passing all this info' on to him. Does anyone know why MS doesn't
>> have a working copy for people who want it to download it?
>> It wouldn't cost MS anything.
>
>I can elaborate to some extent.
>
>Vista Windows Mail is protected code. Microsoft only distributes
>code via o/s, software releases, and updates. Since WM was
>included in the O/S, it's not MSFT practice to distribute o/s parts
>separately as stand-alone software.
>-i.e. if you have Vista, you already have the code
>
>Second, MSFT doesn't support the use of Windows Mail on Win8.
>- support is different than acknowledging or being aware that
>Vista's Windows Mail can be used on Windows 8
>
>Third..Acknowledgement of Windows Mail use has covered a fair
>amount of ground since Win7's release.
>- To accomplish using Window Mail on Win8 one needs a few
>earlier version files. Those files are either obtained from one's
>licensed Vista system or elsewhere. Elsewhere would entail
>some form of distribution requiring MSFT's permission. At one
>time MSFT has requested that those necessary files be removed
>from certain sites since permission was not obtained to
>distribute their protected code. The gray area started when
>updates to those files became available when
>included in easily downloadable updates (extraction required)
>in publicly available Windows/Microsoft updates.
>
>Finally, as an operating system gets older less effort is
>placed on policing distribution of protected code without permission.
>
>With all the above, there is no benefit for MSFT to make those
>files available....its easier to acknowledge the possibility and
>obvious distribution than to waste any time or expense to meet
>a very small need especially when other free or fee based
>MSFT email alternatives are available (Windows Live Mail 2012,
>Office Outlook with Office suites, Windows 8 Mail app, Hotmail )
>for use with Windows 8


I've been trying to install Windows Mail from my Vista 64 to Windows 8
for two weeks now and still haven't succeeded. Windows 8 will not
install the msidcrl30.dll file. It seems from what I've read it worked
fine on the prelimenary editions of Windows 8 but I haven't seen
anything on the version that is on my new Windows 8 computer.
Anyone have any ideas about that? Any help would be much appreciated.
TIA,
Walt

[Live[_2_]]

"Walt" wrote:

>I've been trying to install Windows Mail from my Vista 64 to Windows 8
>for two weeks now and still haven't succeeded. Windows 8 will not
>install the msidcrl30.dll file. It seems from what I've read it worked
>fine on the prelimenary editions of Windows 8 but I haven't seen
>anything on the version that is on my new Windows 8 computer.
>Anyone have any ideas about that? Any help would be much appreciated.
>TIA,
>Walt

Rename "Windows Mail" to "Windows Mail 8" (for not to need take ownership)
Create new "Windows Mail" folder (so all registry references still being
correct)
Copy content of "Windows Mail" folder from Vista into new created "Windows
Mail" folder
Copy "msidcrl30.dll" from Vista into "Windows Mail" folder
Run "Windows Mail"