Is there a retail version of 64-bit Windows 8 Pro?

[Yes]

Does Microsoft offer a RETAIL version of the 64-bit version of Windows
8 Pro? I do not want an OEM (System Builder) version. Retail licenses
allowed you to move the O/S to a new computer. OEM licenses are tied
to the computer to which you originally install it.

[Alias[_43_]]

On 12/14/2012 3:37 PM, Yes wrote:
> Retail licenses
> allowed you to move the O/S to a new computer. OEM licenses are tied
> to the computer to which you originally install it.

Not technically true. EULA says so but MS wipes the "genuine" hash clean
every 120 days.

--
Alias

[XS11E]

"Yes" > wrote:

> Does Microsoft offer a RETAIL version of the 64-bit version of
> Windows 8 Pro?

Yes, of course. Check MSFT's site for more information.


--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

[Yes]

XS11E wrote:

> "Yes" > wrote:
>
> > Does Microsoft offer a RETAIL version of the 64-bit version of
> > Windows 8 Pro?
>
> Yes, of course. Check MSFT's site for more information.

I did already, which is why I'm asking here.

[Steve]

Windows 8 Professional System Builder DVD 64-Bit is available at Amazon for
$139.99

"Yes" wrote in message ...

XS11E wrote:

> "Yes" > wrote:
>
> > Does Microsoft offer a RETAIL version of the 64-bit version of
> > Windows 8 Pro?
>
> Yes, of course. Check MSFT's site for more information.

I did already, which is why I'm asking here.

[Ken Blake[_4_]]

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 11:17:47 -0500, "Steve" >
wrote:

> Windows 8 Professional System Builder DVD 64-Bit is available at Amazon for
> $139.99


Please see his original message, which said "I do not want an OEM
(System Builder) version."

And please do not use Windows Live Mail for posting in newsgroups. It
royally screws up quoting.




> "Yes" wrote in message ...
>
> XS11E wrote:
>
> > "Yes" > wrote:
> >
> > > Does Microsoft offer a RETAIL version of the 64-bit version of
> > > Windows 8 Pro?
> >
> > Yes, of course. Check MSFT's site for more information.
>
> I did already, which is why I'm asking here.

--
Ken Blake

[XS11E]

"Yes" > wrote:

> XS11E wrote:
>
>> "Yes" > wrote:
>>
>> > Does Microsoft offer a RETAIL version of the 64-bit version of
>> > Windows 8 Pro?
>>
>> Yes, of course. Check MSFT's site for more information.
>
> I did already, which is why I'm asking here.

Obviously you didn't.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/compare



--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 12:48:02 -0700, "XS11E" >
wrote in article >...
>
> "Yes" > wrote:
>
> > XS11E wrote:
> >
> >> "Yes" > wrote:
> >>
> >> > Does Microsoft offer a RETAIL version of the 64-bit version of
> >> > Windows 8 Pro?
> >>
> >> Yes, of course. Check MSFT's site for more information.
> >
> > I did already, which is why I'm asking here.
>
> Obviously you didn't.
>
> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/compare

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see anything at that link about retail
versions of Windows 8, just a comparison between Windows RT, Windows 8,
and Windows 8 Pro, and an offer for the upgrade version.

--
Zaphod

Adventurer, ex-hippie, good-timer (crook? quite possibly),
manic self-publicist, terrible bad at personal relationships,
often thought to be completely out to lunch.

[..winston]

Then the op gets nothing....which is more important that what news reader a poster chose to use to reply.

Full retail versions like they were for previous o/s will no longer be available from MSFT or resellers.

The full retail version and the OEM System Builder versions available as separate products in the past are now combined into one
single package - Personal Use System Builder Version (the OEM tag is no longer used by MSFT but is being used by resellers).

Unlike previous full retail versions (which included 32 bit and 64 bit DVDs) and like previous OEM System Builder versions the Win8
Personal Use - System Builder versions only come in 32 bit or 64 bit packages (i.e. only one DVD 32 or 64 bit but not both)

--
....winston
msft mvp


"Ken Blake" wrote in message ...

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 11:17:47 -0500, "Steve" >
wrote:

> Windows 8 Professional System Builder DVD 64-Bit is available at Amazon for
> $139.99


Please see his original message, which said "I do not want an OEM
(System Builder) version."

And please do not use Windows Live Mail for posting in newsgroups. It
royally screws up quoting.




> "Yes" wrote in message ...
>
> XS11E wrote:
>
> > "Yes" > wrote:
> >
> > > Does Microsoft offer a RETAIL version of the 64-bit version of
> > > Windows 8 Pro?
> >
> > Yes, of course. Check MSFT's site for more information.
>
> I did already, which is why I'm asking here.

--
Ken Blake

[..winston]

Microsoft, unlike earlier version of Windows (7, Vista, XP) will not be providing a stand-alone retail version of Windows 8.

In the past MSFT provided full retail versions of their o/s and also an OEM System Builder version. With the advent of Windows 8.
- The full version retail and the OEM System Builder version is now one single package called Windows 8 Personal Use - System
Builder version (while web sites are marketing the version with an OEM tag, in MSFT speak the OEM term was dropped).

Thus if you wish a full retail version of Win8 64bit you do have to purchase the Personal Use System Builder 64 bit version.

Also unlike previous full retail versions (which included both 32/64bit DVD) and like previous OEM full versions the Personal Use
System Builder version only comes in one flavor - 32 bit or 64 bit but not both....thus ensure when purchasing the full Personal
Use System Builder version you choose the right flavor (32 bit or 64 bit).

--
....winston
msft mvp


"Yes" wrote in message ...

Does Microsoft offer a RETAIL version of the 64-bit version of Windows
8 Pro? I do not want an OEM (System Builder) version. Retail licenses
allowed you to move the O/S to a new computer. OEM licenses are tied
to the computer to which you originally install it.

[Drew[_3_]]

On 12/14/2012 12:17 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 12:48:02 -0700, "XS11E" >
> wrote in article >...
>>
>> "Yes" > wrote:
>>
>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Yes" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Does Microsoft offer a RETAIL version of the 64-bit version of
>>>>> Windows 8 Pro?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, of course. Check MSFT's site for more information.
>>>
>>> I did already, which is why I'm asking here.
>>
>> Obviously you didn't.
>>
>> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/compare
>
> Maybe it's just me, but I don't see anything at that link about retail
> versions of Windows 8, just a comparison between Windows RT, Windows 8,
> and Windows 8 Pro, and an offer for the upgrade version.
>
According to Microsoft's site (answers.microsoft.com) They do not offer
windows 8 retail per say instead purchase the systembuilder cd from
somewhere like newegg.com. The link for that statement is here.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-windows_install/how-do-i-purchase-a-retail-version-of-win8/ad791e2d-55d8-489f-aa04-2235322437e1.

[VanguardLH[_2_]]

"..winston" wrote:

> Then the op gets nothing....which is more important that what news reader a poster chose to use to reply.

And in some newsreaders, your long line would get truncated. Not all of
them line wrap. Gateways that leech from Usenet keep the overly long
lines resulting in users have to scroll. I believe even WLM lets the
user configure the maximum physical line length.

The following quoted lines were rewrapped at 72 chars/line, or less.

> Full retail versions like they were for previous o/s will no longer
> be available from MSFT or resellers.

So now everyone that buys a non-bundled OEM copy (what an OEM bundles
with their hardware) of Windows gets a system builder version?

> The full retail version and the OEM System Builder versions available
> as separate products in the past are now combined into one single
> package - Personal Use System Builder Version (the OEM tag is no
> longer used by MSFT but is being used by resellers).

So, after installing the personal-use system builder version on one
computer, are users permitted to migrate that license to another
computer? Or are all licences post-Windows 7 now tied to a specific
computer as were the prior OEM and system builder licenses?

http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/Pages/personal-use-license.aspx

From that article, it looks like users are now phucked regarding resale
of the license when they no longer want it.

Q. What happens if I build a PC with a Personal Use License, then
later decide to sell it?

A. You may transfer the software to another computer that belongs to
you.

So this is how the retail license worked before (for your use on a
different one of your computers).

You may also transfer the software (together with the license) to a
computer owned by someone else if a) you are the first licensed user
of the software and b) the new user agrees to the terms of this
agreement.

That is different than the old retail license. There was no having to
track who was the "first licensed user". A retail license could be
resold any number of times. User #1 builds their host, builds another
but wants a later version of Windows, so he sells off his old retail
license. User #2 buys the license but never uses it (a newer version
already came out or he never build or bought another host on which to
use that license), so he sells it off. User #3 buys the license, puts
on his computer, his computer burns up in a fire, he decides to go with
some other OS, and sells off the license. User #4 now has the license.
With this new licensing scheme for the "personal-use" system builder
license, users #3 and #4 have illegal copies. Users #3 and #4 have no
way of knowing user #2 was not the "first licensed user". Even
resellers that sell to other resellers or to users that never use the
license but resell it are going to generate havoc regarding what is or
is not a valid license. None of them know if from whom they purchased
was the "first licensed user" or not.

Microsoft is certainly muddying its licensing. No one will know if the
seller was the first licensed user. Hell, even the seller probably
won't know.

> Unlike previous full retail versions (which included 32 bit and 64
> bit DVDs) and like previous OEM System Builder versions the Win8
> Personal Use - System Builder versions only come in 32 bit or 64 bit
> packages (i.e. only one DVD 32 or 64 bit but not both)

So owners of 64-bit software that originally get the 64-bit edition of
Windows 8 who decide they need the 32-bit edition because of 64-bit
driver problems or lack of them or programs that don't like 64-bit mode
will have to buy another license for the 32-bit edition of Windows 8?
If they can't move forward to 64-bit to match their hardware but find
software is lacking, they have to re-pay to move backward to 32-bit. Oh
what a wonderful scheme.

http://pcsupport.about.com/b/2012/10/28/what-to-do-windows-8-pro-standard-rt-upgrade-system-builder-32-bit-64-bit.htm:
When you download Windows 8 Pro Upgrade from Microsoft, you'll get the
64-bit version if it's compatible with your computer. If not, you'll
get the 32-bit download. If you purchase a Windows 8 Pro Upgrade from
a retail store or online, you can choose which you'd like to install
once you get it home.
and
System Builder versions of Windows 8 are packaged separately so you'll
need to decide on 32-bit vs 64-bit prior to your purchase.

Tis likely most users have 64-bit capable hardware when they download
the upgrade but that might be the version they want. That Windows can
use 64-bit mode doesn't mean the user's drivers and apps support it.
Sounds like you're saying users could end up having to pay for 2
upgrades: the 64-bit edition because they have 64-bit hardware and the
32-bit version because they still need to run 32-bit mode on their
64-bit hardware. Oh joy. Most users won't know there will be a problem
with the 64-bit version until after they install it and then start
installing drivers and apps. Then it's too late and they'll have to pay
again to get the 32-bit edition.

Windows 8 is getting even less inviting.

> --
<snipped the 30 line signature>

Twas certainly a long signature in your reply since everything you
quoted was *after* the sigdash line.

[..winston]

[:] Responses inline

"VanguardLH" wrote in message ...

So now everyone that buys a non-bundled OEM copy (what an OEM bundles
with their hardware) of Windows gets a system builder version?
[:] Yes

So, after installing the personal-use system builder version on one
computer, are users permitted to migrate that license to another
computer? Or are all licences post-Windows 7 now tied to a specific
computer as were the prior OEM and system builder licenses?
http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/Pages/personal-use-license.aspx

From that article, it looks like users are now phucked regarding resale
of the license when they no longer want it.

Q. What happens if I build a PC with a Personal Use License, then
later decide to sell it?
A. You may transfer the software to another computer that belongs to
you.
So this is how the retail license worked before (for your use on a
different one of your computers).

You may also transfer the software (together with the license) to a
computer owned by someone else if a) you are the first licensed user
of the software and b) the new user agrees to the terms of this
agreement.

That is different than the old retail license. There was no having to
track who was the "first licensed user". A retail license could be
resold any number of times. User #1 builds their host, builds another
but wants a later version of Windows, so he sells off his old retail
license. User #2 buys the license but never uses it (a newer version
already came out or he never build or bought another host on which to
use that license), so he sells it off. User #3 buys the license, puts
on his computer, his computer burns up in a fire, he decides to go with
some other OS, and sells off the license. User #4 now has the license.
With this new licensing scheme for the "personal-use" system builder
license, users #3 and #4 have illegal copies. Users #3 and #4 have no
way of knowing user #2 was not the "first licensed user". Even
resellers that sell to other resellers or to users that never use the
license but resell it are going to generate havoc regarding what is or
is not a valid license. None of them know if from whom they purchased
was the "first licensed user" or not.

Microsoft is certainly muddying its licensing. No one will know if the
seller was the first licensed user. Hell, even the seller probably
won't know.

[:] See Ed Bott's articles for an understanding of MSFT Win8 licensing
http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-radically-overhauls-license-agreements-for-windows-8-7000002866/
and
http://www.zdnet.com/how-the-new-windows-8-license-terms-affect-you-7000003028/


> Unlike previous full retail versions (which included 32 bit and 64
> bit DVDs) and like previous OEM System Builder versions the Win8
> Personal Use - System Builder versions only come in 32 bit or 64 bit
> packages (i.e. only one DVD 32 or 64 bit but not both)

So owners of 64-bit software that originally get the 64-bit edition of
Windows 8 who decide they need the 32-bit edition because of 64-bit
driver problems or lack of them or programs that don't like 64-bit mode
will have to buy another license for the 32-bit edition of Windows 8?
If they can't move forward to 64-bit to match their hardware but find
software is lacking, they have to re-pay to move backward to 32-bit. Oh
what a wonderful scheme.
[:] Just like they did with OEM System versions in the past
- only 32 or 64 bit per purchase.


http://pcsupport.about.com/b/2012/10/28/what-to-do-windows-8-pro-standard-rt-upgrade-system-builder-32-bit-64-bit.htm:
When you download Windows 8 Pro Upgrade from Microsoft, you'll get the
64-bit version if it's compatible with your computer. If not, you'll
get the 32-bit download. If you purchase a Windows 8 Pro Upgrade from
a retail store or online, you can choose which you'd like to install
once you get it home.
and
System Builder versions of Windows 8 are packaged separately so you'll
need to decide on 32-bit vs 64-bit prior to your purchase.
[:] Yes

Tis likely most users have 64-bit capable hardware when they download
the upgrade but that might be the version they want. That Windows can
use 64-bit mode doesn't mean the user's drivers and apps support it.
Sounds like you're saying users could end up having to pay for 2
upgrades: the 64-bit edition because they have 64-bit hardware and the
32-bit version because they still need to run 32-bit mode on their
64-bit hardware. Oh joy. Most users won't know there will be a problem
with the 64-bit version until after they install it and then start
installing drivers and apps. Then it's too late and they'll have to pay
again to get the 32-bit edition.
[:] When purchasing an upgrade a link is provided via email to download in the future.
- the pc used to access it determines the bit-ness of the download
- Note: you only get one license per purchase, not the right to download
and install both on separate hardware.
i.e. you need both, you pay for both.

Windows 8 is getting even less inviting.

[Yes]

XS11E wrote:

> "Yes" > wrote:
>
> > XS11E wrote:
> >
> >> "Yes" > wrote:
> >>
> >> > Does Microsoft offer a RETAIL version of the 64-bit version of
> >> > Windows 8 Pro?
> >>
> >> Yes, of course. Check MSFT's site for more information.
> >
> > I did already, which is why I'm asking here.
>
> Obviously you didn't.
>
> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/compare

Obviously, I did. That was one of the first pages I found. Search for
the word 'retail' on it! As noted elsewhere, it compares the flavors,
not the licensing terms. Your response didn't address my question and
is insulting. Not only had I read that page but had even directly
contacted the MS pre-sales phone number, which was also disappointing
because the representative seemed to be working from a script and gave
no clear answer.

[Yes]

...winston wrote:

> Microsoft, unlike earlier version of Windows (7, Vista, XP) will not
> be providing a stand-alone retail version of Windows 8.
>
> In the past MSFT provided full retail versions of their o/s and also
> an OEM System Builder version. With the advent of Windows 8. - The
> full version retail and the OEM System Builder version is now one
> single package called Windows 8 Personal Use - System Builder version
> (while web sites are marketing the version with an OEM tag, in MSFT
> speak the OEM term was dropped).
>
> Thus if you wish a full retail version of Win8 64bit you do have to
> purchase the Personal Use System Builder 64 bit version.
>
> Also unlike previous full retail versions (which included both
> 32/64bit DVD) and like previous OEM full versions the Personal Use
> System Builder version only comes in one flavor - 32 bit or 64 bit
> but not both....thus ensure when purchasing the full Personal Use
> System Builder version you choose the right flavor (32 bit or 64 bit).

As I stated originally, I'm interested in the 64-bit Windows 8 Pro
version.

Are you saying that the license of the 64-bit Windows 8 Pro System
Builder version allows the purchaser of the license to move the license
to another computer when that purchaser buys, upgrades or builds a new
computer?

I'm not talking about installing the O/S to run concurrently on two
plus machines, simply the case that I built my pc so that I could
upgrade the CPU, memory and hard drives over time and as my budget
permits. Under the EULA for the prior versions (say, for example,
Windows XP), the retail version allowed the purchaser to move the O/S
to newer machines. The OEM version did not; if you upgraded your CPU,
for example, you had to buy a new license. Granted, Microsoft was
lenient about that, but it was an issue that could come back to bite
you in the a$$.

I've got to say that it feels like Microsoft is screwing those who
upgrade their computer hardware over time rather than buying a new pc.
For me at least, I want to do the 'right thing' relative to the
license, but it's just not economically feasible to buy a new license
every time I choose to upgrade the CPU, RAM or hard drive(s), yet a
zealous Microsoft attorney would argue that that is what must be done.

[Alias[_43_]]

On 12/15/2012 1:50 PM, Yes wrote:
> Under the EULA for the prior versions (say, for example,
> Windows XP), the retail version allowed the purchaser to move the O/S
> to newer machines. The OEM version did not; if you upgraded your CPU,
> for example, you had to buy a new license

The EULA says you *may* not move XP to another computer but you *can*
and become Genuine and activate without problems. All you have to do is
wait 120 days after the last activation and then you can install it on
another machine because MS wipes the slate clean every 120 days. I don't
know if it's the same with 8 but I don't plan to buy 8 of any flavor.

--
Alias

[Drew[_3_]]

On 12/14/2012 12:34 PM, ..winston wrote:
> Then the op gets nothing....which is more important that what news
> reader a poster chose to use to reply.
>
> Full retail versions like they were for previous o/s will no longer be
> available from MSFT or resellers.
>
> The full retail version and the OEM System Builder versions available as
> separate products in the past are now combined into one single package -
> Personal Use System Builder Version (the OEM tag is no longer used by
> MSFT but is being used by resellers).
>
> Unlike previous full retail versions (which included 32 bit and 64 bit
> DVDs) and like previous OEM System Builder versions the Win8 Personal
> Use - System Builder versions only come in 32 bit or 64 bit packages
> (i.e. only one DVD 32 or 64 bit but not both)
>
Purchased the upgrade for windows 8 download from Microsoft with the
cd/dvd and when the package was finally delivered it contained both 32
and 64bit versions.I thought you only got what was recognized by the
original download.

[Yes]

...winston wrote:

> [:] Responses inline
>
> "VanguardLH" wrote in message ...
>
> So now everyone that buys a non-bundled OEM copy (what an OEM bundles
> with their hardware) of Windows gets a system builder version?
> [:] Yes
>
> So, after installing the personal-use system builder version on one
> computer, are users permitted to migrate that license to another
> computer? Or are all licences post-Windows 7 now tied to a specific
> computer as were the prior OEM and system builder licenses?
>
>
http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/Pages/personal-use-license.aspx
>
> From that article, it looks like users are now phucked regarding
> resale of the license when they no longer want it.
>
> Q. What happens if I build a PC with a Personal Use License, then
> later decide to sell it?
> A. You may transfer the software to another computer that belongs to
> you.
> So this is how the retail license worked before (for your use on a
> different one of your computers).
>
> You may also transfer the software (together with the license) to a
> computer owned by someone else if a) you are the first licensed user
> of the software and b) the new user agrees to the terms of this
> agreement.
>
> That is different than the old retail license. There was no having to
> track who was the "first licensed user". A retail license could be
> resold any number of times. User #1 builds their host, builds another
> but wants a later version of Windows, so he sells off his old retail
> license. User #2 buys the license but never uses it (a newer version
> already came out or he never build or bought another host on which to
> use that license), so he sells it off. User #3 buys the license, puts
> on his computer, his computer burns up in a fire, he decides to go
> with some other OS, and sells off the license. User #4 now has the
> license. With this new licensing scheme for the "personal-use"
> system builder license, users #3 and #4 have illegal copies. Users
> #3 and #4 have no way of knowing user #2 was not the "first licensed
> user". Even resellers that sell to other resellers or to users that
> never use the license but resell it are going to generate havoc
> regarding what is or is not a valid license. None of them know if
> from whom they purchased was the "first licensed user" or not.
>
> Microsoft is certainly muddying its licensing. No one will know if
> the seller was the first licensed user. Hell, even the seller
> probably won't know.
>
> [:] See Ed Bott's articles for an understanding of MSFT Win8 licensing
>
http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-radically-overhauls-license-agreements-for-windows-8-7000002866/
> and
>
http://www.zdnet.com/how-the-new-windows-8-license-terms-affect-you-7000003028/
>
>
> > Unlike previous full retail versions (which included 32 bit and 64
> > bit DVDs) and like previous OEM System Builder versions the Win8
> > Personal Use - System Builder versions only come in 32 bit or 64 bit
> > packages (i.e. only one DVD 32 or 64 bit but not both)
>
> So owners of 64-bit software that originally get the 64-bit edition of
> Windows 8 who decide they need the 32-bit edition because of 64-bit
> driver problems or lack of them or programs that don't like 64-bit
> mode will have to buy another license for the 32-bit edition of
> Windows 8? If they can't move forward to 64-bit to match their
> hardware but find software is lacking, they have to re-pay to move
> backward to 32-bit. Oh what a wonderful scheme.
> [:] Just like they did with OEM System versions in the past
> - only 32 or 64 bit per purchase.
>
>
>
http://pcsupport.about.com/b/2012/10/28/what-to-do-windows-8-pro-standard-rt-upgrade-system-builder-32-bit-64-bit.htm:
> When you download Windows 8 Pro Upgrade from Microsoft, you'll get
> the 64-bit version if it's compatible with your computer. If not,
> you'll get the 32-bit download. If you purchase a Windows 8 Pro
> Upgrade from a retail store or online, you can choose which you'd
> like to install once you get it home.
> and
> System Builder versions of Windows 8 are packaged separately so
> you'll need to decide on 32-bit vs 64-bit prior to your purchase.
> [:] Yes
>
> Tis likely most users have 64-bit capable hardware when they download
> the upgrade but that might be the version they want. That Windows can
> use 64-bit mode doesn't mean the user's drivers and apps support it.
> Sounds like you're saying users could end up having to pay for 2
> upgrades: the 64-bit edition because they have 64-bit hardware and the
> 32-bit version because they still need to run 32-bit mode on their
> 64-bit hardware. Oh joy. Most users won't know there will be a
> problem with the 64-bit version until after they install it and then
> start installing drivers and apps. Then it's too late and they'll
> have to pay again to get the 32-bit edition.
> [:] When purchasing an upgrade a link is provided via email to
> download in the future. - the pc used to access it determines the
> bit-ness of the download - Note: you only get one license per
> purchase, not the right to download and install both on separate
> hardware. i.e. you need both, you pay for both.
>
> Windows 8 is getting even less inviting.

@Winston, hard to tell if the line "Windows 8 is getting even less
inviting" is yours agreeing with Vanguard or is Vanguard's (he wrote
that in his post to which you replied). My newsreader is a bit old in
the tooth but works quite well for 99% of what I read.

Regardless, both Vanguard's and your comments, especially the links
were useful to read. I'm digesting them now.

I suppose my worries will come down, like it did with earlier Windows
versions, as to what Microsoft chooses to define as a 'computer'. I'm
one of what seems to be the increasingly rare group who assemble their
own computers and upgrade the individual parts as needed or desired.
The articles in the links don't really address if switching one of the
components in one's pc makes it a 'new' computer as far as the license
is concerned.

It certainly seems like one could argue that, if I were to uninstall
the Windows 8 O/S, switch out the part (CPU, RAM, etc) and then install
the O/S, that that would comply with the terms described in the article
(I forget which one atm). Of course, to my thinking, that is just pure
BS to conform with the letter of the law whereas the spirit would be to
be able to install the new equipment without going through such hoops.
But the way things go these days, I wouldn't trust Microsoft or other
companies not to try to enforce something like that.

I digress, though. The question about the license is basic for me
rather than the technical merits of Windows 8 and arguments about its
technical benefits and disadvantages relative to earlier versions. I
want a license that will stay with me and my pc over time as I replace
the individual parts in my pc, not one that says changing something in
the box makes it a new computer and therefore needs a new license. One
of the articles mentioned a third type of license called Full Packaged
Product. I'll need to look for more info about that beyond what's in
that article.

[Yes]

Drew wrote:

> On 12/14/2012 12:34 PM, ..winston wrote:
> > Then the op gets nothing....which is more important that what news
> > reader a poster chose to use to reply.
> >
> > Full retail versions like they were for previous o/s will no
> > longer be available from MSFT or resellers.
> >
> > The full retail version and the OEM System Builder versions
> > available as separate products in the past are now combined into
> > one single package - Personal Use System Builder Version (the OEM
> > tag is no longer used by MSFT but is being used by resellers).
> >
> > Unlike previous full retail versions (which included 32 bit and 64
> > bit DVDs) and like previous OEM System Builder versions the Win8
> > Personal Use - System Builder versions only come in 32 bit or 64
> > bit packages (i.e. only one DVD 32 or 64 bit but not both)
> >
> Purchased the upgrade for windows 8 download from Microsoft with the
> cd/dvd and when the package was finally delivered it contained both
> 32 and 64bit versions.I thought you only got what was recognized by
> the original download.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the DVD had both.

[Yes]

Alias wrote:

> On 12/15/2012 1:50 PM, Yes wrote:
> > Under the EULA for the prior versions (say, for example,
> > Windows XP), the retail version allowed the purchaser to move the
> > O/S to newer machines. The OEM version did not; if you upgraded
> > your CPU, for example, you had to buy a new license
>
> The EULA says you may not move XP to another computer but you can and
> become Genuine and activate without problems. All you have to do is
> wait 120 days after the last activation and then you can install it
> on another machine because MS wipes the slate clean every 120 days. I
> don't know if it's the same with 8 but I don't plan to buy 8 of any
> flavor.

I didn't know about the 120 day period. That works for me because I
use Win XP Pro. Fortunately, the last time I did a clean install (due
to new hd) was about two or three years ago - knock on wood :-)

[Ken Blake[_4_]]

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:02:55 -0500, "..winston" >
wrote:

> Microsoft, unlike earlier version of Windows (7, Vista, XP) will not be providing a stand-alone retail version of Windows 8.
>
> In the past MSFT provided full retail versions of their o/s and also an OEM System Builder version. With the advent of Windows 8.
> - The full version retail and the OEM System Builder version is now one single package called Windows 8 Personal Use - System
> Builder version (while web sites are marketing the version with an OEM tag, in MSFT speak the OEM term was dropped).
>
> Thus if you wish a full retail version of Win8 64bit you do have to purchase the Personal Use System Builder 64 bit version.


Thanks very much for that info. I hadn't realized that.


--
Ken Blake

[Alias[_43_]]

On 12/15/2012 3:48 PM, Yes wrote:
> Alias wrote:
>
>> On 12/15/2012 1:50 PM, Yes wrote:
>>> Under the EULA for the prior versions (say, for example,
>>> Windows XP), the retail version allowed the purchaser to move the
>>> O/S to newer machines. The OEM version did not; if you upgraded
>>> your CPU, for example, you had to buy a new license
>>
>> The EULA says you may not move XP to another computer but you can and
>> become Genuine and activate without problems. All you have to do is
>> wait 120 days after the last activation and then you can install it
>> on another machine because MS wipes the slate clean every 120 days. I
>> don't know if it's the same with 8 but I don't plan to buy 8 of any
>> flavor.
>
> I didn't know about the 120 day period. That works for me because I
> use Win XP Pro. Fortunately, the last time I did a clean install (due
> to new hd) was about two or three years ago - knock on wood :-)
>

If it's been that long, no need to knock on wood.

--
Alias

[Robin Bignall]

On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 14:01:44 +0000 (UTC), "Yes" >
wrote:

>I digress, though. The question about the license is basic for me
>rather than the technical merits of Windows 8 and arguments about its
>technical benefits and disadvantages relative to earlier versions. I
>want a license that will stay with me and my pc over time as I replace
>the individual parts in my pc, not one that says changing something in
>the box makes it a new computer and therefore needs a new license.

I'm in exactly the same boat.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

[..winston]

Don't confuse licensing with product activation....the latter necessary to ensure it continues to operate in full feature mode.

IF you change enough components then the need for activation will kick in requiring it to be done online or via phone with the
latter possibly involving a voice call with MSFT.

Lol...I don't make the rules but Ed Bott did a wonderful job or providing the different scenarios for the OEM built (e.g. Dell,
HP), upgrade, or full version Personal Use...anything that deviates from those possibilities while technically possible doesn't
change MSFT position.


The 'less inviting' comment was VanguardLH's , I missed snipping that comment.

'Full package product' only applies to the earlier full retail versions of earlier o/s (e.g. Win7 full retail with 32 and 64 bit
DVD)...those full package products are no longer available and are now replaced with the Personal Use Licenser for System Builder
versions which include a 32 ***or** 64 bit DVD but not both.


--
....winston
msft mvp


"Yes" wrote in message ...

Regardless, both Vanguard's and your comments, especially the links
were useful to read. I'm digesting them now.

I suppose my worries will come down, like it did with earlier Windows
versions, as to what Microsoft chooses to define as a 'computer'. I'm
one of what seems to be the increasingly rare group who assemble their
own computers and upgrade the individual parts as needed or desired.
The articles in the links don't really address if switching one of the
components in one's pc makes it a 'new' computer as far as the license
is concerned.

It certainly seems like one could argue that, if I were to uninstall
the Windows 8 O/S, switch out the part (CPU, RAM, etc) and then install
the O/S, that that would comply with the terms described in the article
(I forget which one atm). Of course, to my thinking, that is just pure
BS to conform with the letter of the law whereas the spirit would be to
be able to install the new equipment without going through such hoops.
But the way things go these days, I wouldn't trust Microsoft or other
companies not to try to enforce something like that.

I digress, though. The question about the license is basic for me
rather than the technical merits of Windows 8 and arguments about its
technical benefits and disadvantages relative to earlier versions. I
want a license that will stay with me and my pc over time as I replace
the individual parts in my pc, not one that says changing something in
the box makes it a new computer and therefore needs a new license. One
of the articles mentioned a third type of license called Full Packaged
Product. I'll need to look for more info about that beyond what's in
that article.

[..winston]

I don't see why this continues to confuse folks.

Upgrade:
- If you purchase and upgrade from MSFT you have the option to download 32 or 64 bit at any time...the only catch is that you
obtain the desired bit-ness is to use a pc of the same bit-ness.
- If you purchase an upgrade from MSFT you also have the option (with additional cost) to obtain the DVD's...which will include
both 32 and 64 bit versions.
- If you purchase the upgrade packaged product in a retail store (e.g. Best Buy, Staples, etc) or online your delivered package
will contain both 32 and 64 bit DVD's

Full version: Personal Use License System Builder version
- purchasing this product only provides 32 or 64 bit DVD. If you want both, you need to purchase both.

OEM built machines: (e.g. Dell, HP, etc.)
- you get what they provide...usually no DVD with the ability to restore the machine to factory condition either via a Recovery
partition on the machine, a DVD for recovery, or a DVD for recovery in conjunction with the Recovery partition on the machine.

--
....winston
msft mvp


"Drew" wrote in message ...

On 12/14/2012 12:34 PM, ..winston wrote:
> Then the op gets nothing....which is more important that what news
> reader a poster chose to use to reply.
>
> Full retail versions like they were for previous o/s will no longer be
> available from MSFT or resellers.
>
> The full retail version and the OEM System Builder versions available as
> separate products in the past are now combined into one single package -
> Personal Use System Builder Version (the OEM tag is no longer used by
> MSFT but is being used by resellers).
>
> Unlike previous full retail versions (which included 32 bit and 64 bit
> DVDs) and like previous OEM System Builder versions the Win8 Personal
> Use - System Builder versions only come in 32 bit or 64 bit packages
> (i.e. only one DVD 32 or 64 bit but not both)
>
Purchased the upgrade for windows 8 download from Microsoft with the
cd/dvd and when the package was finally delivered it contained both 32
and 64bit versions.I thought you only got what was recognized by the
original download.

[Yes]

Robin Bignall wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 14:01:44 +0000 (UTC), "Yes"
> > wrote:
>
> > --snipped--
>
> I'm in exactly the same boat.

Robin,

After spending a few hours using the links provided by VanguardLH
and/or ..winston (sorry, it's still not clear to me which one) but
here's what seems to shake out.

The key phrases are "System Builder" AND "Personal Use License"


Recapping:

Ed Bott in "Microsoft radically overhauls license agreements for
Windows 8" references "Personal Use License" ... "for Windows 8 Pro"
towards the end of the page

http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-radically-overhauls-license-agreements-for-windows-8-7000002866/


Ed Bott later wrote another article "How the new Windows 8 license
terms affect you" with a Q&A format that gives some more insight

http://www.zdnet.com/how-the-new-windows-8-license-terms-affect-you_p2-7000003028/


Tim Fisher in "What To Do: Windows 8 Pro, Standard, RT, Upgrade, System
Builder, 32-bit, 64-bit, ..." gives his synopsis of the Windows 8 O/S
options Microsoft offers.

http://pcsupport.about.com/b/2012/10/28/what-to-do-windows-8-pro-standard-rt-upgrade-system-builder-32-bit-64-bit.htm


All this led me to Microsoft's site. There is a section devoted to
their OEM Partners.

http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/products/windows/Pages/windows-8-overview.aspx


Underneath the heading "Licensing and Anti-Piracy", finally, there is a
link to "Personal Use License" which at the bottom has a FAQ including
a link to their Personal Use License website

"Personal Use License" page
http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/EN/LICENSING/sblicensing/Pages/personal-use-license.aspx

Personal Use License website
http://www.windows.com/personaluselicense

So it seems as though one can use the System Builder version for
personal use so long as he/she also accepts the Pesonal Use License.
It wasn't a trivial exercise to find this info, but at least the links
helped to identify what to search for.


FWIW
Using the Fisher article, it seems that the O/S version appropriate for
me, if I do buy it, is
Microsoft FQC-05956 Windows 8 Pro Operating System Software - 64-Bit,
OEM
the product code, at least one that generated a useful number of hits
in Google, is FQC-05956
My understanding is that this would be the product that you would use
to install on a pc that does not already have a Windows O/S installed.
You would install it from scratch.

I found other people commiserating about the sorry state of info re:
Microsoft Windows 8

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-windows_install/how-do-i-purchase-a-retail-version-of-windows-8/ad791e2d-55d8-489f-aa04-2235322437e1

I got closer to some answers about what's available in this posting
that asked "Where can I buy w8 pro x64 system builder online?":
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-windows_install/where-can-i-buy-w8-pro-x64-system-builder-online/5d4471e4-e39b-4fa0-b550-3e72bd1a9d52?auth=1

Hope this helps you make a decision. Apologies about being
long-winded, but I still feel that trying to understand Microsoft
explanations is like a trip to the dentist to get teeth fixed - painful
in the extreme with possibility to have to repeat some time in the
future.

P.S.: I'm not sure that I've helped you, now that I think about it.
All my effort has been focused on the personal/non-commercial aspect.
I don't know how applicable it is to business if that's the angle you
were considering. Oh well :-(

[..winston]

And not to be confused with the 32 or 64 bit iso available from MSDN/TechNet subscriptions where as of July 16, the license for use
for current subscriptions for certain MSDN/Technet plans is for the duration of the subscription (not necessarily in perpetuity
like pre Jul 16 obtained software/keys for those same type of MSDN/Technet Plans).


--
....winston
msft mvp


"Ken Blake" wrote in message ...

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:02:55 -0500, "..winston" >
wrote:

> Microsoft, unlike earlier version of Windows (7, Vista, XP) will not be providing a stand-alone retail version of Windows 8.
>
> In the past MSFT provided full retail versions of their o/s and also an OEM System Builder version. With the advent of Windows 8.
> - The full version retail and the OEM System Builder version is now one single package called Windows 8 Personal Use - System
> Builder version (while web sites are marketing the version with an OEM tag, in MSFT speak the OEM term was dropped).
>
> Thus if you wish a full retail version of Win8 64bit you do have to purchase the Personal Use System Builder 64 bit version.


Thanks very much for that info. I hadn't realized that.


--
Ken Blake

[Yes]

...winston wrote:

> I don't see why this continues to confuse folks.
>
> Upgrade:
> - If you purchase and upgrade from MSFT you have the option to
> download 32 or 64 bit at any time...the only catch is that you obtain
> the desired bit-ness is to use a pc of the same bit-ness.
>--snipped--

Yes, that is the gotcha I ran into. My existing system is 32-bit. I
want the next O/S I move to to be 64-bit. But Microsoft's upgrade path
is for like to like, NOT 32-bit to 64-bit. The upgrade path was
therefore not an option for my pc according to Microsoft site info.

Therefore I was looking for the 64-bit version in order to do a clean
install from scratch. Windows 8 (the standard version) does not
interest me. For technical reasons, I want some of the features that
Windows 8 Pro offers, but the enterprise edition would be overkill.
Given this, therefore, Windows 8 Pro 64-bit was the sole choice from
what Microsoft offers that otherwise met my criteria.

[Robin Bignall]

On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 18:12:15 +0000 (UTC), "Yes" >
wrote:

>Robin Bignall wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 14:01:44 +0000 (UTC), "Yes"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > --snipped--
>>
>> I'm in exactly the same boat.
>
>Robin,
>
>After spending a few hours using the links provided by VanguardLH
>and/or ..winston (sorry, it's still not clear to me which one) but
>here's what seems to shake out.
>
>The key phrases are "System Builder" AND "Personal Use License"
>
>
>Recapping:
>
>Ed Bott in "Microsoft radically overhauls license agreements for
>Windows 8" references "Personal Use License" ... "for Windows 8 Pro"
>towards the end of the page
>
>http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-radically-overhauls-license-agreements-for-windows-8-7000002866/
>
>
>Ed Bott later wrote another article "How the new Windows 8 license
>terms affect you" with a Q&A format that gives some more insight
>
>http://www.zdnet.com/how-the-new-windows-8-license-terms-affect-you_p2-7000003028/
>
>
>Tim Fisher in "What To Do: Windows 8 Pro, Standard, RT, Upgrade, System
>Builder, 32-bit, 64-bit, ..." gives his synopsis of the Windows 8 O/S
>options Microsoft offers.
>
>http://pcsupport.about.com/b/2012/10/28/what-to-do-windows-8-pro-standard-rt-upgrade-system-builder-32-bit-64-bit.htm
>
>
>All this led me to Microsoft's site. There is a section devoted to
>their OEM Partners.
>
>http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/products/windows/Pages/windows-8-overview.aspx
>
>
>Underneath the heading "Licensing and Anti-Piracy", finally, there is a
>link to "Personal Use License" which at the bottom has a FAQ including
>a link to their Personal Use License website
>
>"Personal Use License" page
>http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/EN/LICENSING/sblicensing/Pages/personal-use-license.aspx
>
>Personal Use License website
>http://www.windows.com/personaluselicense
>
>So it seems as though one can use the System Builder version for
>personal use so long as he/she also accepts the Pesonal Use License.
>It wasn't a trivial exercise to find this info, but at least the links
>helped to identify what to search for.
>
>
>FWIW
>Using the Fisher article, it seems that the O/S version appropriate for
>me, if I do buy it, is
>Microsoft FQC-05956 Windows 8 Pro Operating System Software - 64-Bit,
>OEM
>the product code, at least one that generated a useful number of hits
>in Google, is FQC-05956
>My understanding is that this would be the product that you would use
>to install on a pc that does not already have a Windows O/S installed.
>You would install it from scratch.
>
>I found other people commiserating about the sorry state of info re:
>Microsoft Windows 8
>
>http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-windows_install/how-do-i-purchase-a-retail-version-of-windows-8/ad791e2d-55d8-489f-aa04-2235322437e1
>
>I got closer to some answers about what's available in this posting
>that asked "Where can I buy w8 pro x64 system builder online?":
>http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-windows_install/where-can-i-buy-w8-pro-x64-system-builder-online/5d4471e4-e39b-4fa0-b550-3e72bd1a9d52?auth=1
>
>Hope this helps you make a decision. Apologies about being
>long-winded, but I still feel that trying to understand Microsoft
>explanations is like a trip to the dentist to get teeth fixed - painful
>in the extreme with possibility to have to repeat some time in the
>future.
>
>P.S.: I'm not sure that I've helped you, now that I think about it.
>All my effort has been focused on the personal/non-commercial aspect.
>I don't know how applicable it is to business if that's the angle you
>were considering. Oh well :-(

Just a home user, and this post is most definitely one to keep. Thanks.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

[Robin Bignall]

On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 12:53:21 -0500, "..winston" >
wrote:

>Don't confuse licensing with product activation....the latter necessary to ensure it continues to operate in full feature mode.
>
>IF you change enough components then the need for activation will kick in requiring it to be done online or via phone with the
>latter possibly involving a voice call with MSFT.
>
>Lol...I don't make the rules but Ed Bott did a wonderful job or providing the different scenarios for the OEM built (e.g. Dell,
>HP), upgrade, or full version Personal Use...anything that deviates from those possibilities while technically possible doesn't
>change MSFT position.
>
>
>The 'less inviting' comment was VanguardLH's , I missed snipping that comment.
>
>'Full package product' only applies to the earlier full retail versions of earlier o/s (e.g. Win7 full retail with 32 and 64 bit
>DVD)...those full package products are no longer available and are now replaced with the Personal Use Licenser for System Builder
>versions which include a 32 ***or** 64 bit DVD but not both.

That is an annoyance if you have a 32-bit system, and eventually decide
to upgrade the system to 64-bit. Twice the price for (effectively) the
same OS.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

[BillW50]

On 12/15/2012 2:43 PM, Robin Bignall wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 12:53:21 -0500, >
> wrote:
>
>> Don't confuse licensing with product activation....the latter necessary to ensure it continues to operate in full feature mode.
>>
>> IF you change enough components then the need for activation will kick in requiring it to be done online or via phone with the
>> latter possibly involving a voice call with MSFT.
>>
>> Lol...I don't make the rules but Ed Bott did a wonderful job or providing the different scenarios for the OEM built (e.g. Dell,
>> HP), upgrade, or full version Personal Use...anything that deviates from those possibilities while technically possible doesn't
>> change MSFT position.
>>
>>
>> The 'less inviting' comment was VanguardLH's , I missed snipping that comment.
>>
>> 'Full package product' only applies to the earlier full retail versions of earlier o/s (e.g. Win7 full retail with 32 and 64 bit
>> DVD)...those full package products are no longer available and are now replaced with the Personal Use Licenser for System Builder
>> versions which include a 32 ***or** 64 bit DVD but not both.
>
> That is an annoyance if you have a 32-bit system, and eventually decide
> to upgrade the system to 64-bit. Twice the price for (effectively) the
> same OS.

Yes... well... true. But the same problem applies if you purchase an
upgrade key and use it for a few hours and then discover something wrong
that you can't live with it. So you go back to the previous version of
Windows. Now what happens with the key you just bought? Totally useless.

Previous versions of Windows since XP, allowed x amount of time before
you needed to activate it. Thus working like a trial version for x
amount of days. Windows 8 doesn't work this way. As the first time you
go online it automatically activates and now the key counts as being
used. And it doesn't matter if you after a few hours you reformat the
drive to get rid of it or not.

Microsoft hasn't been that bad before, but other third parties have.
This nonsense has started back in the late 80's and it is getting worse
and worse. And companies are so bold to offer you a money back guarantee
knowing full well they don't plan on giving you anything back. Because
they probably won't and it would cost you zillions to get so little back
fighting them in court.

So the best course of action is the Internet. And just to warn others
what can indeed happen. I don't think they will change, but at least we
can help some from being trapped. Microsoft is a late comer to this game
which is the good news. Sadly I think they are forced to for survival.

--
Bill
Dell Latitute Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB - Windows 7 SP1 and Windows 8

[..winston]

Then purchase the Personal Use License System Builder 64 bit version from any available source (online, retail outlet, big box
store).

Upgrades are for existing operating systems (e.g. upgrade XP, Vista, Win7 to Windows 8) - upgrading an existing machine (as noted
in the Ed Bott article) replaces/nullifies the license of the prior o/s used to qualify for the upgrade.


--
....winston
msft mvp


"Yes" wrote in message ...

...winston wrote:

> I don't see why this continues to confuse folks.
>
> Upgrade:
> - If you purchase and upgrade from MSFT you have the option to
> download 32 or 64 bit at any time...the only catch is that you obtain
> the desired bit-ness is to use a pc of the same bit-ness.
>--snipped--

Yes, that is the gotcha I ran into. My existing system is 32-bit. I
want the next O/S I move to to be 64-bit. But Microsoft's upgrade path
is for like to like, NOT 32-bit to 64-bit. The upgrade path was
therefore not an option for my pc according to Microsoft site info.

Therefore I was looking for the 64-bit version in order to do a clean
install from scratch. Windows 8 (the standard version) does not
interest me. For technical reasons, I want some of the features that
Windows 8 Pro offers, but the enterprise edition would be overkill.
Given this, therefore, Windows 8 Pro 64-bit was the sole choice from
what Microsoft offers that otherwise met my criteria.

[..winston]

In the past full retail versions were available (at a higher cost, twice or more than twice than OEM full versions)...higher cost
because full retail included both 32/64 bit dvds whereas OEM versions included only one version 32 or 64 bit.

Now the only full version available is the Personal Use System Builder and like the past OEM full version available in 32 or 64 bit
variety but not both. I.e. in the past you either purchased 32 or 64 bit or both 32 and 64 bit OEM versions at a cost
significantly less than the previous full retail packaged product.

Thus if you were using OEM in the past you still bought two if you needed both (32 and 64 bit)....and you paid for two OEM versions
or about half as much for those two than you would have paid for one full retail box version that included both 32/64 bit DVDs.

i.e. you need to compare apples to apples.




--
....winston
msft mvp


"Robin Bignall" wrote in message ...

On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 12:53:21 -0500, "..winston" >
wrote:

>Don't confuse licensing with product activation....the latter necessary to ensure it continues to operate in full feature mode.
>
>IF you change enough components then the need for activation will kick in requiring it to be done online or via phone with the
>latter possibly involving a voice call with MSFT.
>
>Lol...I don't make the rules but Ed Bott did a wonderful job or providing the different scenarios for the OEM built (e.g. Dell,
>HP), upgrade, or full version Personal Use...anything that deviates from those possibilities while technically possible doesn't
>change MSFT position.
>
>
>The 'less inviting' comment was VanguardLH's , I missed snipping that comment.
>
>'Full package product' only applies to the earlier full retail versions of earlier o/s (e.g. Win7 full retail with 32 and 64 bit
>DVD)...those full package products are no longer available and are now replaced with the Personal Use Licenser for System Builder
>versions which include a 32 ***or** 64 bit DVD but not both.

That is an annoyance if you have a 32-bit system, and eventually decide
to upgrade the system to 64-bit. Twice the price for (effectively) the
same OS.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

[Yes]

...winston wrote:

> Then purchase the Personal Use License System Builder 64 bit version
> from any available source (online, retail outlet, big box store).
>
>--snipped--

simple to say, but that advice ignores that, until I posed my question,
I had not run across any references in the material I read mentioning
"personal use license" nor is Microsoft's site the clearest at pointing
me to the area "personal use license" underneath "OEM Partner" That is
not an intuitive destintation point to which to look for info which you
and others have already pointed out that Microsoft changed terminology
and names.

So give me and the others a break who do not regularly keep up with the
current naming conventions. It is rather hard to consider buying
something if you don't know it exists or what search terms to use to
lead to discovering that nomenclature.

I do appreciate the help you've given, but you lose brownie points (if
you've run across that term because it is rather old) because your last
comment was rather snarky and condescending.

[..winston]

It wasn't meant to be snarky etc...
Based on the information you've provided, your options are limited for building a pc with a full version of Windows 8 since the
only full version product available is Personal Use System Builder versions in 32 or 64 bit varieties.

Mary Jo Foley has a decent article (and references the Ed Bott article on transfer rights) regarding the Personal Use System
Builder version and current entry level pricing (note that pricing may change after MSFT's upgrade promotion pricing period expires
on Jan 31, 2013).
http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-pricing-for-system-builders-said-to-be-roughly-the-same-as-windows-7-7000004361/

In the long run, if you wish to have the most flexibility for installation and activation with a system that may encounter/undergo
a dynamic hardware condition instead of a static hardware condition, then only one full version in 32 or 64 bit applies.

I'm confident, you'll arrive at the best decision for your needs.


--
....winston
msft mvp


"Yes" wrote in message ...

...winston wrote:

> Then purchase the Personal Use License System Builder 64 bit version
> from any available source (online, retail outlet, big box store).
>
>--snipped--

simple to say, but that advice ignores that, until I posed my question,
I had not run across any references in the material I read mentioning
"personal use license" nor is Microsoft's site the clearest at pointing
me to the area "personal use license" underneath "OEM Partner" That is
not an intuitive destintation point to which to look for info which you
and others have already pointed out that Microsoft changed terminology
and names.

So give me and the others a break who do not regularly keep up with the
current naming conventions. It is rather hard to consider buying
something if you don't know it exists or what search terms to use to
lead to discovering that nomenclature.

I do appreciate the help you've given, but you lose brownie points (if
you've run across that term because it is rather old) because your last
comment was rather snarky and condescending.

[housetrained]

"Ken Blake" wrote in message
...
>
>On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 11:17:47 -0500, "Steve" >
>wrote:
>
>> Windows 8 Professional System Builder DVD 64-Bit is available at Amazon
>> for
>> $139.99
>
>
>Please see his original message, which said "I do not want an OEM
>(System Builder) version."
>
>And please do not use Windows Live Mail for posting in newsgroups. It
>royally screws up quoting.
>
>
>
>
<snip>

Not if you use this
housetrained
--
* I promise I will format my posts properly in the future.
* Windows Live Mail just can't quote! Luckily, I have found this:
* http://www.dusko-lolic.from.hr/wlmquote/

[mechanic]

On Sun, 16 Dec 2012 09:03:46 -0000, housetrained wrote:

> * I promise I will format my posts properly in the future.
> * Windows Live Mail just can't quote! Luckily, I have found this:
> * http://www.dusko-lolic.from.hr/wlmquote/

Good link - thanks!

[VanguardLH[_2_]]

I suspect that when Microsoft sees poor sales of Windows 8 (like they
did with Vista) and refocus for Windows 9 that they'll probably realize
that discarding the retail license wasn't so smart, either. Well, one
can only hope.

[..winston]

"VanguardLH" wrote in message ...

>
suspect that when Microsoft sees poor sales of Windows 8 (like they
did with Vista) and refocus for Windows 9 that they'll probably realize
that discarding the retail license wasn't so smart, either. Well, one
can only hope.
>

Look at it the other way around...they discarded the OEM full version license and adopted the OEM packaging (one bitness per
package 32 or 64 bit) for the retail full version and rebranded it as Personal User License.

Why ? The OEM's pc manufacturers become the sole organizations responsible for supporting PC's with pre-installed OEM software.

All other versions receive the standard 90 day support from MSFT.
In fact, if you upgrade either a Win8 or Win8 Pro to Win8 Pro with Media Center Version you change the product key from any
installed version (upgrade, Personal Use, OEM pre-installed) to a retail version product key qualifying for 90 day support from
MSFT.

I have my doubts that any refocus on Win9 will impact the current full version packaging (Personal Use only - 32 or 64 bit per
package) or return to the previous full version packaging (2 DVD's 32 and 64 bit per package).

Hope ? More like a paradigm shift with a huge leap of faith on both sides of the fence (MSFT and consumer).

--
....winston
msft mvp

[Ashton Crusher[_2_]]

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:02:55 -0500, "..winston" >
wrote:

>Microsoft, unlike earlier version of Windows (7, Vista, XP) will not be providing a stand-alone retail version of Windows 8.
>
>In the past MSFT provided full retail versions of their o/s and also an OEM System Builder version. With the advent of Windows 8.
>- The full version retail and the OEM System Builder version is now one single package called Windows 8 Personal Use - System
>Builder version (while web sites are marketing the version with an OEM tag, in MSFT speak the OEM term was dropped).
>
>Thus if you wish a full retail version of Win8 64bit you do have to purchase the Personal Use System Builder 64 bit version.
>
>Also unlike previous full retail versions (which included both 32/64bit DVD) and like previous OEM full versions the Personal Use
>System Builder version only comes in one flavor - 32 bit or 64 bit but not both....thus ensure when purchasing the full Personal
>Use System Builder version you choose the right flavor (32 bit or 64 bit).

Maybe I'm missing something but I bought what I assume is a Retail
Version of Windows 8 Pro from Amazon when it was first released and
the final cost was $20. The package itself does not have the word
"upgrade" anywhere on it but in small print on the disks it says
"upgrade eligibility rules apply" or something like that. It
includes both the 32 bit and 64 bit version disks. On the card with
the S/N it says "Not labeled for individual resale". So how did
Amazon sell it to individuals???? Both line in terms of the OPs
issue, couldn't they just buy what I did and also buy a copy of some
older version of windows and be legal and done with it?

[BillW50]

In ,
VanguardLH typed:
> I suspect that when Microsoft sees poor sales of Windows 8 (like they
> did with Vista) and refocus for Windows 9 that they'll probably
> realize that discarding the retail license wasn't so smart, either.
> Well, one can only hope.

Actually Microsoft has sold 40 million Windows 8 licenses in one month.
That beats all previous records. So what makes you believe Windows 8
sales are poor?

http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-weve-sold-40-million-windows-8-licenses-to-date-7000007990/

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2

[Alias[_43_]]

On 12/21/2012 2:48 PM, BillW50 wrote:
> In ,
> VanguardLH typed:
>> I suspect that when Microsoft sees poor sales of Windows 8 (like they
>> did with Vista) and refocus for Windows 9 that they'll probably
>> realize that discarding the retail license wasn't so smart, either.
>> Well, one can only hope.
>
> Actually Microsoft has sold 40 million Windows 8 licenses in one month.
> That beats all previous records. So what makes you believe Windows 8
> sales are poor?
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-weve-sold-40-million-windows-8-licenses-to-date-7000007990/
>

Having computers sitting on the shelves of retailers doesn't count.
Windows 8 will join Vista and Me as a FLOP. The fact that YOU use it and
LIKE it is just further proof.

--
Alias

[..winston]

"Alias" wrote in message ...

>
> Having computers sitting on the shelves of retailers doesn't
> count. Windows 8 will join Vista and Me as a FLOP.

I'm not too sure that's the correct way to look at it. MSFT has always been patient with adoption of a new o/s especially when a
prior o/s ends it product lifecycle and extended support phase like XP in a little more than a year. Second, with the availability
of Win7 diminishing (since Win8 release) the ability to 'upgrade' from XP to Win7 diminishes on all fronts (PC Manufacturer,
Resellers-Big box/Internet, and third party resellers (e.g. Amazon, etc.). Third, downgrade rights to Win7 from Win8 are only
available for Win8 Pro with the end user responsible (not the OEM or System Builder) to provide Win7.

With the above anyone using XP (approx. 40% of the installed Windows user base) and MSFT or third party software doesn't have too
many choices going forward since it remains unlikely those same folks are ready, capable and willing to switch to other available
operating systems (Apple, Linux, etc.). MSFT, imo, would be very comfortable with XP (and Vista) users running either o/s (Win7
or Win8)....but if XP folks wait too long...their choice may confirm that patience and ultimately realize their only choice is
Win8.

Many folks (especially the XP/Vista crowd) may be better off with Win7 than Win8 for a variety of reasons (comfort, familiarity,
compatibility) but either route chosen, be it Win7 or Win8, in MSFT's eyes is still a sold license and quite different than the
Vista/ME pattern of the past.

--
....winston
msft mvp

[..winston]

How about a link on the Amazon site for what you purchased for $20.

Iirc, the $20 cost was
(a) a special offer for those who purchased a Win7 pc. A promo code was necessary to obtain the lower price upgrade.
(b) the cost after using or obtaining an existing Amazon credit.

--
....winston
msft mvp


"Ashton Crusher" wrote in message ...

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:02:55 -0500, "..winston" >
wrote:

>Microsoft, unlike earlier version of Windows (7, Vista, XP) will not be providing a stand-alone retail version of Windows 8.
>
>In the past MSFT provided full retail versions of their o/s and also an OEM System Builder version. With the advent of Windows 8.
>- The full version retail and the OEM System Builder version is now one single package called Windows 8 Personal Use - System
>Builder version (while web sites are marketing the version with an OEM tag, in MSFT speak the OEM term was dropped).
>
>Thus if you wish a full retail version of Win8 64bit you do have to purchase the Personal Use System Builder 64 bit version.
>
>Also unlike previous full retail versions (which included both 32/64bit DVD) and like previous OEM full versions the Personal Use
>System Builder version only comes in one flavor - 32 bit or 64 bit but not both....thus ensure when purchasing the full Personal
>Use System Builder version you choose the right flavor (32 bit or 64 bit).

Maybe I'm missing something but I bought what I assume is a Retail
Version of Windows 8 Pro from Amazon when it was first released and
the final cost was $20. The package itself does not have the word
"upgrade" anywhere on it but in small print on the disks it says
"upgrade eligibility rules apply" or something like that. It
includes both the 32 bit and 64 bit version disks. On the card with
the S/N it says "Not labeled for individual resale". So how did
Amazon sell it to individuals???? Both line in terms of the OPs
issue, couldn't they just buy what I did and also buy a copy of some
older version of windows and be legal and done with it?

[Ashton Crusher[_2_]]

On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 20:16:09 -0500, "..winston" >
wrote:

>How about a link on the Amazon site for what you purchased for $20.
>
>Iirc, the $20 cost was
>(a) a special offer for those who purchased a Win7 pc. A promo code was necessary to obtain the lower price upgrade.
>(b) the cost after using or obtaining an existing Amazon credit.


I'm pretty sure the promo is over. You paid $50 for it and got a $30
Amazon promotional credit. Now it's $50 and no promo credit. Still a
good price IMHO.

I read there was a $15 deal for people who bought a new machine with
Win7 preinstalled and could upgrade it to Win8 for the $15.

[BillW50]

In ,
Ashton Crusher typed:
> On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 20:16:09 -0500, "..winston" >
> wrote:
>
>> How about a link on the Amazon site for what you purchased for $20.
>>
>> Iirc, the $20 cost was
>> (a) a special offer for those who purchased a Win7 pc. A promo code
>> was necessary to obtain the lower price upgrade. (b) the cost after
>> using or obtaining an existing Amazon credit.
>
> I'm pretty sure the promo is over. You paid $50 for it and got a $30
> Amazon promotional credit. Now it's $50 and no promo credit. Still a
> good price IMHO.
>
> I read there was a $15 deal for people who bought a new machine with
> Win7 preinstalled and could upgrade it to Win8 for the $15.

No that $14.99 offer is still good until January 31, 2013.

Microsoft opens registration for Windows 8 upgrade
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57496945-75/microsoft-opens-registration-for-windows-8-upgrade/

And Newegg has Windows 8 Pro Upgrade for $29.99 after rebate. Deal ends
after the 23rd.

Newegg.com - Microsoft Windows 8 Professional Upgrade
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832416562

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2