dual boot [Archive]

Paul

December 20th 12, 05:50 PM

BillW50 wrote:
> On 12/20/2012 10:20 AM, Stewart wrote:
>> Bill, thank you; I have just done that and while some things won't work
>> the only real problem seems to be with "Secure Boot" as I get a message
>> saying it isn't compatible with the pc. I do not know how important that
>> is but I would not have thought so.
>
> Oh that could be a serious problem! According to Paul that posts here
> says if the CPU doesn't support it, then Windows 8 won't even install.
> Oddly enough 20+ here support it. Even these two tablets. Although
> Windows 8 installs and runs well, Windows 8 says I can't enable Secure
> Boot since it isn't available. Go figure.
>
> So what is the make and model of your CPU anyway? Then we can look it up
> to see if it is compatible with Windows 8.
>

Well, not to mis-quote me or anything, what a desktop needs is NX/XD
support, which means probably any AMD 64 bit processor would work
(any including S754, S939, AM2, AM2+, AM3 and so on - yes, there
are a few stinky 32 bit processors in the early ones, so that
list is not 100% true). On the Intel side, very late P4 in LGA775
supports XD. The ark.intel.com site gives details on hardware features,
if you need to look up your Intel processor.

Secure boot is mentioned here, but it's optional on a desktop.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/system-requirements

"Additional requirements to use certain features:

Secure boot requires firmware that supports
UEFI v2.3.1 Errata B and has the Microsoft Windows
Certification Authority in the UEFI signature database
"

Secure boot is mandatory for WinRT (that's Windows 8 for ARM mobile
devices). I could be wrong, but there would not be a secure boot
required for Windows 8 (desktop version) now on sale. The open
source community (Linux) are concerned that Secure Boot will be
used to lock out other OSes.

There is a tool here. Perhaps it will review hardware
features and tell you whether Windows 8 is a good fit or not.
If there are no major issues mentioned, then you could stop
the tool, run off to the store and buy the boxed version if
you want. While it's possible this tool only works in North
America, test it and see. When I run this, it warns me about
28 different issues.

"Download Upgrade Assistant"
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/upgrade-to-windows-8

Now, when I run that here, it tells me:

"Secure Boot isn't compatible with your PC

Your PC's firmware doesn't support Secure Boot so you won't
be able to use it in Windows 8.
"

No big deal.

I like this one.

"Your screen resolution isn't compatible with snap

If it's possible, change your screen resolution to at least
1366 x 768 to snap apps.
"

Oh, dear.

This is what I'll be missing, by only owning a 17" monitor.
This is the snap feature. In the picture, a Metro app appears
along side the Desktop.

http://cloud.addictivetips.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Snap.jpg

I get no warning about NX/XD, which condemns most of the PCs in
my house. I know this machine has XD, so "I'm laughing".

Paul

Stewart[_6_]

December 20th 12, 06:19 PM

Bill, thanks again; as far as I can see the processor is:-
a 3.4 gigahertz intel core i7-3770 with 256 kilobyte memory cache, 1024 kb
secondary and 8192 kb tertiary.
It is multi-core (4 total), hyper-threaded (8 total).
The board is an ASUSTekCM6330-UK0020.
Is this enough to identify it?

"BillW50" wrote in message ...

On 12/20/2012 10:20 AM, Stewart wrote:
> Bill, thank you; I have just done that and while some things won't work
> the only real problem seems to be with "Secure Boot" as I get a message
> saying it isn't compatible with the pc. I do not know how important that
> is but I would not have thought so.

Oh that could be a serious problem! According to Paul that posts here
says if the CPU doesn't support it, then Windows 8 won't even install.
Oddly enough 20+ here support it. Even these two tablets. Although
Windows 8 installs and runs well, Windows 8 says I can't enable Secure
Boot since it isn't available. Go figure.

So what is the make and model of your CPU anyway? Then we can look it up
to see if it is compatible with Windows 8.

--
Bill
Dell Latitute Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB - Windows Pro 8

BillW50

December 20th 12, 06:36 PM

On 12/20/2012 11:23 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 15:20:13 -0000, >
> wrote:
>
>> I have a new desktop running windows 7 64 bit with plenty spare capacity in
>> the hard drive.
>> Would it be possible for me to create a dual boot pc with Windows 8 on one
>> partition while retaining windows 7 on the other partition?
>
>
> Yes.
>
> But why do you want to do that? Are you aware that Windows 8 comes
> with two interfaces: the Modern/Metro Interface and one that's almost
> identical to Windows 7's? Just add a third party program like the free
> Classic shell, or the even better $4.99 US Start8, and you can barely
> tell it from Windows7.

I totally agree! Although I am learning there might be a good reason why
you might want to keep Windows 7 on a portable machine running on
batteries (or a desktop running off of an UPS). As I have two brand new
Dell Latitude Slate Tablets. There is no wear level on either battery
yet and they still have full capacity.

One I kept Windows 7 Pro and the other has Windows 8 Pro. And BattStat
says Windows 7 uses 6 watts on average and Windows 8 uses 8 watts on
average. Thus here Windows 7 will run 5 1/2 hours and Windows 8 only
runs for 4 1/2 hours on a full charge.

At first, I thought it might be an oddity of design of this model. That
is until I learned others have seen the same thing. See for yourself.

http://gizmodo.com/5969012/short-battery-life-sinks-first-windows-8-notebooks

--
Bill
Dell Latitute Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB - Windows Pro 8

Bob H

December 20th 12, 06:41 PM

On 20/12/2012 15:20, Stewart wrote:
> I have a new desktop running windows 7 64 bit with plenty spare capacity
> in the hard drive.
> Would it be possible for me to create a dual boot pc with Windows 8 on
> one partition while retaining windows 7 on the other partition?
> I think I can purchase a copy of windows 8 for around £70.
> Thank you

I downloaded a trial version of windows 8 and set my laptop up as a dual
boot with windows 7. It worked ok as Windows 8 produced its own dual
boot loader, if you want to call it that.

But the more I tweaked windows 8 because I don't have a touch screen and
didn't like the tiles, the less I became inclined to use it, as it
looked just like another windows 7 OS. I know it wasn't behind the
scenes, but as I didn't like it at first, I decided to uninstall it
eventually.

BillW50

December 20th 12, 06:46 PM

On 12/20/2012 12:19 PM, Stewart wrote:
> Bill, thanks again; as far as I can see the processor is:-
> a 3.4 gigahertz intel core i7-3770 with 256 kilobyte memory cache, 1024
> kb secondary and 8192 kb tertiary.
> It is multi-core (4 total), hyper-threaded (8 total).
> The board is an ASUSTekCM6330-UK0020.
> Is this enough to identify it?

Yes, that one is ok. Intel calls it "Execute Disable (XD) bit".

--
Bill
Dell Latitute Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB - Windows Pro 8

Stewart[_6_]

December 20th 12, 07:29 PM

Ken, thank you once more; you have helped in the past with other topics.
As I said I have windows 7 64 bit on my desktop and windows 7 32 bit on my
laptop and while both work fine there is a problem with the networking that
I won't go into again.
I thought if I installed a full copy of windows 8 then that would network
and by keeping windows 7 on a separate partition then the programs that
won't run on windows 8 would still be available to me.
I know I can upgrade to 8 but would then have to find new programs or pay
for others. For example;e I use media player and an old versions of
Microsoft money.
Maybe I am just trying to be too clever!

"Ken Blake" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 15:20:13 -0000, "Stewart" >
wrote:

> I have a new desktop running windows 7 64 bit with plenty spare capacity
> in
> the hard drive.
> Would it be possible for me to create a dual boot pc with Windows 8 on one
> partition while retaining windows 7 on the other partition?

Yes.

But why do you want to do that? Are you aware that Windows 8 comes
with two interfaces: the Modern/Metro Interface and one that's almost
identical to Windows 7's? Just add a third party program like the free
Classic shell, or the even better $4.99 US Start8, and you can barely
tell it from Windows7.

--
Ken Blake

Bob H

December 20th 12, 07:41 PM

On 20/12/2012 19:29, Stewart wrote:
> Ken, thank you once more; you have helped in the past with other topics.
> As I said I have windows 7 64 bit on my desktop and windows 7 32 bit on
> my laptop and while both work fine there is a problem with the
> networking that I won't go into again.
> I thought if I installed a full copy of windows 8 then that would
> network and by keeping windows 7 on a separate partition then the
> programs that won't run on windows 8 would still be available to me.
> I know I can upgrade to 8 but would then have to find new programs or
> pay for others. For example;e I use media player and an old versions of
> Microsoft money.
> Maybe I am just trying to be too clever!
>
>
>
> "Ken Blake" wrote in message
> ...
>
> On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 15:20:13 -0000, "Stewart" >
> wrote:
>
>> I have a new desktop running windows 7 64 bit with plenty spare
>> capacity in
>> the hard drive.
>> Would it be possible for me to create a dual boot pc with Windows 8 on
>> one
>> partition while retaining windows 7 on the other partition?
>
>
> Yes.
>
> But why do you want to do that? Are you aware that Windows 8 comes
> with two interfaces: the Modern/Metro Interface and one that's almost
> identical to Windows 7's? Just add a third party program like the free
> Classic shell, or the even better $4.99 US Start8, and you can barely
> tell it from Windows7.
>
>
Exactly, that's why I dumped windows 8.

BillW50

December 20th 12, 08:10 PM

On 12/20/2012 1:41 PM, Bob H wrote:
> On 20/12/2012 19:29, Stewart wrote:
>> Ken, thank you once more; you have helped in the past with other topics.
>> As I said I have windows 7 64 bit on my desktop and windows 7 32 bit on
>> my laptop and while both work fine there is a problem with the
>> networking that I won't go into again.
>> I thought if I installed a full copy of windows 8 then that would
>> network and by keeping windows 7 on a separate partition then the
>> programs that won't run on windows 8 would still be available to me.
>> I know I can upgrade to 8 but would then have to find new programs or
>> pay for others. For example;e I use media player and an old versions of
>> Microsoft money.
>> Maybe I am just trying to be too clever!
>>
>> "Ken Blake" wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 15:20:13 -0000, "Stewart" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a new desktop running windows 7 64 bit with plenty spare
>>> capacity in
>>> the hard drive.
>>> Would it be possible for me to create a dual boot pc with Windows 8 on
>>> one
>>> partition while retaining windows 7 on the other partition?
>>
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> But why do you want to do that? Are you aware that Windows 8 comes
>> with two interfaces: the Modern/Metro Interface and one that's almost
>> identical to Windows 7's? Just add a third party program like the free
>> Classic shell, or the even better $4.99 US Start8, and you can barely
>> tell it from Windows7.
>>
> Exactly, that's why I dumped windows 8.

My gut feeling says that might not work out too well. As I think the
future of classic applications may not be developed much anymore. We
seen the same thing back when Windows applications became more popular
than DOS applications. Then DOS development dropped off drastically. My
hope is that Windows 8 won't kill off classic Windows development, but
it might. And if Windows 9 has no desktop at all, that would be a very
bad ominous omen. :-(

--
Bill
Dell Latitute Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB - Windows Pro 8

Stewart[_6_]

December 20th 12, 08:32 PM

Maybe like lots of my other ideas I should just stick with what I've got. I
shall wait until after the New Year anyway but thanks to all for talking me
through it.

"BillW50" wrote in message ...

On 12/20/2012 1:41 PM, Bob H wrote:
> On 20/12/2012 19:29, Stewart wrote:
>> Ken, thank you once more; you have helped in the past with other topics.
>> As I said I have windows 7 64 bit on my desktop and windows 7 32 bit on
>> my laptop and while both work fine there is a problem with the
>> networking that I won't go into again.
>> I thought if I installed a full copy of windows 8 then that would
>> network and by keeping windows 7 on a separate partition then the
>> programs that won't run on windows 8 would still be available to me.
>> I know I can upgrade to 8 but would then have to find new programs or
>> pay for others. For example;e I use media player and an old versions of
>> Microsoft money.
>> Maybe I am just trying to be too clever!
>>
>> "Ken Blake" wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 15:20:13 -0000, "Stewart" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a new desktop running windows 7 64 bit with plenty spare
>>> capacity in
>>> the hard drive.
>>> Would it be possible for me to create a dual boot pc with Windows 8 on
>>> one
>>> partition while retaining windows 7 on the other partition?
>>
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> But why do you want to do that? Are you aware that Windows 8 comes
>> with two interfaces: the Modern/Metro Interface and one that's almost
>> identical to Windows 7's? Just add a third party program like the free
>> Classic shell, or the even better $4.99 US Start8, and you can barely
>> tell it from Windows7.
>>
> Exactly, that's why I dumped windows 8.

My gut feeling says that might not work out too well. As I think the
future of classic applications may not be developed much anymore. We
seen the same thing back when Windows applications became more popular
than DOS applications. Then DOS development dropped off drastically. My
hope is that Windows 8 won't kill off classic Windows development, but
it might. And if Windows 9 has no desktop at all, that would be a very
bad ominous omen. :-(

--
Bill
Dell Latitute Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB - Windows Pro 8

BillW50

December 20th 12, 08:32 PM

On 12/20/2012 1:29 PM, Stewart wrote:
> ... For example;e I use media player and an old versions of
> Microsoft money.
> Maybe I am just trying to be too clever!

I can't tell any difference between the media player in Windows 7 or
Windows 8. Both are v12. Maybe the build number is different, but it
acts the same.

MS Money? You know the last version of MS Money was released for free?
It is called MS Money Plus. I don't know if Microsoft still has the
download available or not. But I am sure it is out there somewhere from
other sources.

--
Bill
Dell Latitute Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB - Windows Pro 8

BillW50

December 20th 12, 08:42 PM

On 12/20/2012 2:32 PM, Stewart wrote:
> Maybe like lots of my other ideas I should just stick with what I've
> got. I shall wait until after the New Year anyway but thanks to all for
> talking me through it.

Sounds like a plan to me. Although the cost of Windows 8 goes up
drastically I think after January 31st. And Windows 8 doesn't include
the Media Center and costs $9.95 extra, I think. Although from a special
Microsoft link, you can get a key for the Media Center for Windows 8 Pro
for free until the 31st of January. Although that key won't work if you
didn't use it by the deadline.

--
Bill
Dell Latitute Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB - Windows Pro 8

Dave \Crash\ Dummy

December 20th 12, 09:19 PM

BillW50 wrote:
> On 12/20/2012 2:32 PM, Stewart wrote:
>> Maybe like lots of my other ideas I should just stick with what
>> I've got. I shall wait until after the New Year anyway but thanks
>> to all for talking me through it.
>
> Sounds like a plan to me. Although the cost of Windows 8 goes up
> drastically I think after January 31st. And Windows 8 doesn't include
> the Media Center and costs $9.95 extra, I think. Although from a
> special Microsoft link, you can get a key for the Media Center for
> Windows 8 Pro for free until the 31st of January. Although that key
> won't work if you didn't use it by the deadline.

I bought the Windows 8 update at the bargain price, but I don't know if
I will ever install it. I tried to get Media Center, but I think Windows
8 has to be installed to get the freebie.

--
Crash

I always thought Mensa was a Japanese import.

BillW50

December 20th 12, 10:22 PM

On 12/20/2012 3:19 PM, Dave "Crash" Dummy wrote:
> BillW50 wrote:
>> On 12/20/2012 2:32 PM, Stewart wrote:
>>> Maybe like lots of my other ideas I should just stick with what
>>> I've got. I shall wait until after the New Year anyway but thanks
>>> to all for talking me through it.
>>
>> Sounds like a plan to me. Although the cost of Windows 8 goes up
>> drastically I think after January 31st. And Windows 8 doesn't include
>> the Media Center and costs $9.95 extra, I think. Although from a
>> special Microsoft link, you can get a key for the Media Center for
>> Windows 8 Pro for free until the 31st of January. Although that key
>> won't work if you didn't use it by the deadline.
>
> I bought the Windows 8 update at the bargain price, but I don't know if
> I will ever install it. I tried to get Media Center, but I think Windows
> 8 has to be installed to get the freebie.

Hopefully Winston will chime in here if I make an error, as he knows
this stuff better than me. But purchasing a Windows 8 key now is
supposed to be good forever (assuming Microsoft servers exists forever).
And the Media Center can be had by anybody with a valid email address,
even if you never owned Windows in your life. The key thing in this case
is that the key you get is supposedly worthless after January 31st if
you never activate it before then.

--
Bill
Dell Latitute Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB - Windows Pro 8

Dave \Crash\ Dummy

December 20th 12, 11:41 PM

BillW50 wrote:
> On 12/20/2012 3:19 PM, Dave "Crash" Dummy wrote:
>> BillW50 wrote:
>>> On 12/20/2012 2:32 PM, Stewart wrote:
>>>> Maybe like lots of my other ideas I should just stick with what
>>>> I've got. I shall wait until after the New Year anyway but
>>>> thanks to all for talking me through it.
>>>
>>> Sounds like a plan to me. Although the cost of Windows 8 goes up
>>> drastically I think after January 31st. And Windows 8 doesn't
>>> include the Media Center and costs $9.95 extra, I think. Although
>>> from a special Microsoft link, you can get a key for the Media
>>> Center for Windows 8 Pro for free until the 31st of January.
>>> Although that key won't work if you didn't use it by the
>>> deadline.
>>
>> I bought the Windows 8 update at the bargain price, but I don't
>> know if I will ever install it. I tried to get Media Center, but I
>> think Windows 8 has to be installed to get the freebie.
>
> Hopefully Winston will chime in here if I make an error, as he knows
> this stuff better than me. But purchasing a Windows 8 key now is
> supposed to be good forever (assuming Microsoft servers exists
> forever).

I bought the downloadable ISO file and burned it to disk. It comes with
a product key.

> And the Media Center can be had by anybody with a valid email
> address, even if you never owned Windows in your life. The key thing
> in this case is that the key you get is supposedly worthless after
> January 31st if you never activate it before then.

Do you have a link for the Media Center download?
--
Crash

"I'm told that Wagner's music is not as bad as it sounds."
~ Mark Twain ~

..winston

December 20th 12, 11:51 PM

Yes, dual boot should work as long as the hardware supports it though the MSFT licensing does have some limits on applicable
versions for use on a separate partition.

Retail Upgrade
- when installing an upgrade version the prior o/s license used to qualify for the upgrade is replaced by the Win8 license. The
Win8 retail upgrade license does not permit use in separate partition.

Personal Use System Builder Version
- full version, does not replace the prior license, capable of being used as an additional operating system in a virtual machine or
separate partition.
- Personal Use System Builder Version replaces the full retail versions and OEM System Builder full versions that were available in
previous o/s. - i.e. only one retail version available and only comes in one flavor 32 or 64 bit but not both.

OEM (provided by the pc manufacturer, one install/run one copy on pc that acquired the software)

Here are two articles about licensing from Ed Bott (with MSFT licensing text verbatim)
http://www.zdnet.com/how-the-new-windows-8-license-terms-affect-you-7000003028/
<qp>
Bott:
After I upgrade, can I use my old Windows version on a separate partition or on another PC? Can I give it away or sell it?
No. The upgrade replaces the old license completely. The terms are written in very clear language:

MSFT Upgrade License:
The software covered by this agreement is an upgrade to your existing operating system software, so the upgrade replaces the
original software that you are upgrading. You do not retain any rights to the original software after you have upgraded and you may
not continue to use it or transfer it in any way.
</qp>

http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-radically-overhauls-license-agreements-for-windows-8-7000002866/
<qp>
PERSONAL USE LICENSE (SYSTEM BUILDER) FOR WINDOWS 8 PRO
We do not sell our software or your copy of it â€“ we only license it.Under our license, we grant you the right to install and run
that one copy on one computer (the licensed computer) as the operating system on a computer that you build for your personal use,
or as an additional operating system running on a local virtual machine ***or a separate partition***, subject to the restrictions
outlined under â€œAre there things Iâ€™m not allowed to do with the software?â€
</qp>

--
....winston
msft mvp

"Stewart" wrote in message ...

I have a new desktop running windows 7 64 bit with plenty spare capacity in
the hard drive.
Would it be possible for me to create a dual boot pc with Windows 8 on one
partition while retaining windows 7 on the other partition?
I think I can purchase a copy of windows 8 for around Â£70.
Thank you

Paul

December 20th 12, 11:57 PM

Dave "Crash" Dummy wrote:

>
> Do you have a link for the Media Center download?

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/feature-packs

"For a limited time, get Windows 8 Media Center Pack for free **

To receive a free product key and get Windows 8 Media Center Pack,
provide a valid email address in the space provided. Once you receive
your free product key through the email address you provided, follow
the instructions for adding Windows 8 Media Center Pack that appear
later on this page.

...

Read the license terms, select the check box to accept the license
terms, and then click Add features.
"

That makes the process sound like an Anytime Upgrade. As if
MCE files are already installed, and just the hard links
need to be forged.

Maybe someone can try it out, and see if the NIC LED flashes
a lot or not :-)

Paul

Ken Blake[_4_]

December 21st 12, 12:44 AM

On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 19:29:28 -0000, "Stewart" >
wrote:

> Ken, thank you once more; you have helped in the past with other topics.

You're welcome. Glad to help.

> As I said I have windows 7 64 bit on my desktop and windows 7 32 bit on my
> laptop and while both work fine there is a problem with the networking that
> I won't go into again.
> I thought if I installed a full copy of windows 8 then that would network
> and by keeping windows 7 on a separate partition then the programs that
> won't run on windows 8 would still be available to me.
> I know I can upgrade to 8 but would then have to find new programs or pay
> for others. For example;e I use media player and an old versions of
> Microsoft money.
> Maybe I am just trying to be too clever!

There are *some* programs that run on Windows 7 that won't run on
Windows 8, but they are few and far between. With rare exceptions
(mostly utilities), if it runs on Windows 7 it will also run on
Windows 8. When I upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows 8, all of my
programs continued to run.

--
Ken Blake

..winston

December 21st 12, 12:44 AM

"BillW50" wrote in message ...

>
Hopefully Winston will chime in here if I make an error, as he knows
this stuff better than me. But purchasing a Windows 8 key now is
supposed to be good forever (assuming Microsoft servers exists forever).
And the Media Center can be had by anybody with a valid email address,
even if you never owned Windows in your life. The key thing in this case
is that the key you get is supposedly worthless after January 31st if
you never activate it before then.
>

Just a few additional comments.

If you purchase a Windows 8 key, OEM preinstalled pc, or Personal Use System Builder version before or after the promotional offer
your license or ability to upgrade/install Windows 8 does not expire after the promotional period ends. What will change is the
cost of the upgrade and/or Personal User System Builder version (OEM pc's with preinstall Win8's have their own 'what I call
floating-rate' pc costs)

Windows 8 Pro is required to install Windows 8 Media Center

To obtain Media Center for Windows 8 Pro
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/feature-packs
- Enter your email address and type in the 6 characters - the product key and a link to download will be emailed
- You don't need to obtain W8 Media Center from a Win8 Pro pc but it will only install on a Win8 Pro PC
- Win8 Media Center is installed via the Win8 Pro Add Features option where you will be prompted to 'buy a key' or 'I have a key'
- after Jan 31, 2013, the Win8 Media Center will be available for Win8 Pro at some nominal cost ($10-15 US)
- the free offer is only available if you install and activate Win8 Media Center on Win8 Pro prior to Jan 31, 2013
(i.e. if you obtain it prior to Jan 31, 2013 but install if after that date you will have to pay the nominal cost)
- installing Win8 Media Center on a Win8 Pro pc changes the o/s version from Win8 Pro to Win 8 Pro with Media Center
- installing Win8 Media Center changes the license on the pc to a retail license
- installing Win8 Media Center changes the product key from the previous Win8 Pro key to the Win8 Pro with Media Center key
- if your original pc was an OEM pc (e.g. Dell, HP, Samsung etc.) you will no longer be able to obtain OEM specific apps from the
MSFT store.
- after you install Win8 Pro Media Center you are entitled to 90 days of no-charge support from MSFT

Notes:
(1.) I have no clue how the above impacts support from an/your OEM pc manufacturer
(2) I have no experience (since Jan 31 has not arrived) how one would clean reinstall Win8 Pro and upgrade to Win 8 Pro with Media
Center after Jan 31, 2013 with a Win8 Media Center key that was acquired during the promotion (guessing - you'll have to pay for
it....which makes a strong case to ensure you have a valid backup image of your entire System and Boot Volume of Win8 Pro Media
Center before prematurely jumping off that cliff)
(3) You can verify that Win8 Media Center changes the o/s product key by comparing the product key before and after install.
(4) Good luck

--
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps

..winston

December 21st 12, 12:58 AM

"BillW50" wrote in message ...

On 12/20/2012 1:29 PM, Stewart wrote:
>> ... For example;e I use media player and an old versions of
>> Microsoft money.
>> Maybe I am just trying to be too clever!

>
MS Money? You know the last version of MS Money was released for free?
It is called MS Money Plus. I don't know if Microsoft still has the
download available or not. But I am sure it is out there somewhere from
other sources.
>

The first 14 versions of Money (Money through Money 2006) did not require product activation
Money 2007 was the first version to require activation
Money Plus also required activation (Money Plus was the first and only Money Plus version)
Money Plus Sunset the last versions were downloadable versions of Money Plus Deluxe and Money Plus Home and Business that did not
require activation.

Fyi...
- Money Plus Sunset Home and Business is still available
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=7564
- Money Plus Sunset Deluxe is still available
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=20738
Both Sunset versions are replacement for expired versions of previous products and only provide online Help.

p.s. The build number is different for Win8 Media Center than Win7 Media Center :)

--
....winston
msft mvp

..winston

December 21st 12, 06:54 AM

"Paul" wrote in message ...
>
That makes the process sound like an Anytime Upgrade. As if
MCE files are already installed, and just the hard links
need to be forged.

Maybe someone can try it out, and see if the NIC LED flashes
a lot or not :-)
>

From what I understand...some files are present since Media Player (which is present shares files with Media Center), the balance
of necessary files are downloaded during the install process (not much different than deploying updates via MU or apps from the
Windows Store) - i.e. the additional bits aren't very large.

As noted elsewhere - installing Media Center on Win8 Pro changes the Product Key
- to see this happen compare the product key before and after
- Note: Win8 does not show the activated product key on the Computer/System Properties page though it does provide a link to show a
dialog box on the key activated but only the last set of digits are shown....post Media Center install those digits (and the ones
not shown) will be identical to the key obtained for Media Center (and a retail license too).

--
....winston
msft mvp

Paul

Dave \Crash\ Dummy

December 21st 12, 12:18 PM

...winston wrote:
> "BillW50" wrote in message ...
>
>>
> Hopefully Winston will chime in here if I make an error, as he knows
> this stuff better than me. But purchasing a Windows 8 key now is
> supposed to be good forever (assuming Microsoft servers exists
> forever). And the Media Center can be had by anybody with a valid
> email address, even if you never owned Windows in your life. The key
> thing in this case is that the key you get is supposedly worthless
> after January 31st if you never activate it before then.
>>
>
> Just a few additional comments.
>
> If you purchase a Windows 8 key, OEM preinstalled pc, or Personal Use
> System Builder version before or after the promotional offer your
> license or ability to upgrade/install Windows 8 does not expire after
> the promotional period ends. What will change is the cost of the
> upgrade and/or Personal User System Builder version (OEM pc's with
> preinstall Win8's have their own 'what I call floating-rate' pc
> costs)
>
> Windows 8 Pro is required to install Windows 8 Media Center
>
> To obtain Media Center for Windows 8 Pro
> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/feature-packs - Enter
> your email address and type in the 6 characters - the product key and
> a link to download will be emailed - You don't need to obtain W8
> Media Center from a Win8 Pro pc but it will only install on a Win8
> Pro PC - Win8 Media Center is installed via the Win8 Pro Add Features
> option where you will be prompted to 'buy a key' or 'I have a key' -
> after Jan 31, 2013, the Win8 Media Center will be available for Win8
> Pro at some nominal cost ($10-15 US) - the free offer is only
> available if you install and activate Win8 Media Center on Win8 Pro
> prior to Jan 31, 2013 (i.e. if you obtain it prior to Jan 31, 2013
> but install if after that date you will have to pay the nominal cost)
> - installing Win8 Media Center on a Win8 Pro pc changes the o/s
> version from Win8 Pro to Win 8 Pro with Media Center - installing
> Win8 Media Center changes the license on the pc to a retail license -
> installing Win8 Media Center changes the product key from the
> previous Win8 Pro key to the Win8 Pro with Media Center key - if your
> original pc was an OEM pc (e.g. Dell, HP, Samsung etc.) you will no
> longer be able to obtain OEM specific apps from the MSFT store. -
> after you install Win8 Pro Media Center you are entitled to 90 days
> of no-charge support from MSFT
>
> Notes: (1.) I have no clue how the above impacts support from an/your
> OEM pc manufacturer (2) I have no experience (since Jan 31 has not
> arrived) how one would clean reinstall Win8 Pro and upgrade to Win 8
> Pro with Media Center after Jan 31, 2013 with a Win8 Media Center key
> that was acquired during the promotion (guessing - you'll have to pay
> for it....which makes a strong case to ensure you have a valid backup
> image of your entire System and Boot Volume of Win8 Pro Media Center
> before prematurely jumping off that cliff) (3) You can verify that
> Win8 Media Center changes the o/s product key by comparing the
> product key before and after install. (4) Good luck

Thank you for the detailed explanation. That confirms what I thought
about having to have Windows 8 installed before January 31 to get the
free Media Center. What you post elsewhere clarifies another point. I
was confusing Windows Media Player, which I want, with Windows Media
Center, which I don't care about. If Windows 8 comes with WMP, then I
have no problem with a January 31 deadline.
--
Crash

"Something there is that doesn't love a wall, that wants it down."
~ Robert Frost ~

Dave \Crash\ Dummy

December 21st 12, 12:25 PM

...winston wrote:
> Yes, dual boot should work as long as the hardware supports it though
> the MSFT licensing does have some limits on applicable versions for
> use on a separate partition.
>
> Retail Upgrade - when installing an upgrade version the prior o/s
> license used to qualify for the upgrade is replaced by the Win8
> license. The Win8 retail upgrade license does not permit use in
> separate partition.

<snipped>

Am I correct that the $39.99 download is a Retail Upgrade license and
thus not eligible for installation in a separate partition?
--
Crash

"I'm told that Wagner's music is not as bad as it sounds."
~ Mark Twain ~

Paul

December 21st 12, 07:49 PM

Dave "Crash" Dummy wrote:
> ..winston wrote:
>> "BillW50" wrote in message ...
>>
>>>
>> Hopefully Winston will chime in here if I make an error, as he knows
>> this stuff better than me. But purchasing a Windows 8 key now is
>> supposed to be good forever (assuming Microsoft servers exists
>> forever). And the Media Center can be had by anybody with a valid
>> email address, even if you never owned Windows in your life. The key
>> thing in this case is that the key you get is supposedly worthless
>> after January 31st if you never activate it before then.
>>>
>>
>> Just a few additional comments.
>>
>> If you purchase a Windows 8 key, OEM preinstalled pc, or Personal Use
>> System Builder version before or after the promotional offer your
>> license or ability to upgrade/install Windows 8 does not expire after
>> the promotional period ends. What will change is the cost of the
>> upgrade and/or Personal User System Builder version (OEM pc's with
>> preinstall Win8's have their own 'what I call floating-rate' pc
>> costs)
>>
>> Windows 8 Pro is required to install Windows 8 Media Center
>>
>> To obtain Media Center for Windows 8 Pro
>> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/feature-packs - Enter
>> your email address and type in the 6 characters - the product key and
>> a link to download will be emailed - You don't need to obtain W8
>> Media Center from a Win8 Pro pc but it will only install on a Win8
>> Pro PC - Win8 Media Center is installed via the Win8 Pro Add Features
>> option where you will be prompted to 'buy a key' or 'I have a key' -
>> after Jan 31, 2013, the Win8 Media Center will be available for Win8
>> Pro at some nominal cost ($10-15 US) - the free offer is only
>> available if you install and activate Win8 Media Center on Win8 Pro
>> prior to Jan 31, 2013 (i.e. if you obtain it prior to Jan 31, 2013
>> but install if after that date you will have to pay the nominal cost)
>> - installing Win8 Media Center on a Win8 Pro pc changes the o/s
>> version from Win8 Pro to Win 8 Pro with Media Center - installing
>> Win8 Media Center changes the license on the pc to a retail license -
>> installing Win8 Media Center changes the product key from the
>> previous Win8 Pro key to the Win8 Pro with Media Center key - if your
>> original pc was an OEM pc (e.g. Dell, HP, Samsung etc.) you will no
>> longer be able to obtain OEM specific apps from the MSFT store. -
>> after you install Win8 Pro Media Center you are entitled to 90 days
>> of no-charge support from MSFT
>>
>> Notes: (1.) I have no clue how the above impacts support from an/your
>> OEM pc manufacturer (2) I have no experience (since Jan 31 has not
>> arrived) how one would clean reinstall Win8 Pro and upgrade to Win 8
>> Pro with Media Center after Jan 31, 2013 with a Win8 Media Center key
>> that was acquired during the promotion (guessing - you'll have to pay
>> for it....which makes a strong case to ensure you have a valid backup
>> image of your entire System and Boot Volume of Win8 Pro Media Center
>> before prematurely jumping off that cliff) (3) You can verify that
>> Win8 Media Center changes the o/s product key by comparing the
>> product key before and after install. (4) Good luck
>
> Thank you for the detailed explanation. That confirms what I thought
> about having to have Windows 8 installed before January 31 to get the
> free Media Center. What you post elsewhere clarifies another point. I
> was confusing Windows Media Player, which I want, with Windows Media
> Center, which I don't care about. If Windows 8 comes with WMP, then I
> have no problem with a January 31 deadline.

The only thing Windows Media Center might provide is some CODECs.
But there are likely other ways to get those.

I thought the deal was a means to recover licensing costs. So if
you put DVD playing capability in an OS, you owed someone money.
As an OS development company, by making your customers pay for
additional CODECs, the customer who wants stuff like that, pays
extra for it.

Now, maybe if the only thing you supported was PCM sound, it might
be possible to avoid Dolby licensing. That might mean paying
for video codecs (mpeg LA?).

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/media-center-will-be-in-windows-8-but-not-right-away/3860

"We already know that some video codecs and Dolby Digital
capabilities will be left out of the base Windows 8 product.
At a buck or two per copy, that’s hundreds of millions of dollars
in expenses for Microsoft over the life of a Windows release - and
it's difficult to justify those outlays if 94% of users don’t want
or need the licensed components.
"

And this link doesn't clarify the situation, as to what you get
with Media Center in Win8.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/dolby-our-technologies-are-not-built-into-microsofts-windows-8/10287

Perhaps someone who is installing Media Center, can test with
GSpot CODEC tool. It's normally used to determine what CODECs
are needed to play a movie. But it will also list the CODECs
currently installed in a system.

http://gspot.headbands.com/v26x/index.htm

http://gspot.headbands.com/v26x/GSpot270a.zip

Paul

..winston

December 21st 12, 10:13 PM

Based on the licensing agreement that appears to be MSFT's position....only the Personal User System Builder version has language
allowing use in a virtual or separate partition.

As noted elsewhere (possibly in this forum or on the net) ...technically feasible vs. allowed are two different animals.

--
....winston
msft mvp

"Dave "Crash" Dummy" wrote in message ...

...winston wrote:
> Yes, dual boot should work as long as the hardware supports it though
> the MSFT licensing does have some limits on applicable versions for
> use on a separate partition.
>
> Retail Upgrade - when installing an upgrade version the prior o/s
> license used to qualify for the upgrade is replaced by the Win8
> license. The Win8 retail upgrade license does not permit use in
> separate partition.

<snipped>

Am I correct that the $39.99 download is a Retail Upgrade license and
thus not eligible for installation in a separate partition?
--
Crash

"I'm told that Wagner's music is not as bad as it sounds."
~ Mark Twain ~

Dave \Crash\ Dummy

December 21st 12, 11:13 PM

...winston wrote:
> Based on the licensing agreement that appears to be MSFT's
> position....only the Personal User System Builder version has language
> allowing use in a virtual or separate partition.
>
> As noted elsewhere (possibly in this forum or on the net) ...technically
> feasible vs. allowed are two different animals.

I, of course, would never do anything that Microsoft didn't want me to do...
--
Crash

Life is short. Eat dessert first.

..winston

December 22nd 12, 12:30 AM

"Paul" wrote in message ...

>
The only thing Windows Media Center might provide is some CODECs.
But there are likely other ways to get those.

I thought the deal was a means to recover licensing costs. So if
you put DVD playing capability in an OS, you owed someone money.
As an OS development company, by making your customers pay for
additional CODECs, the customer who wants stuff like that, pays
extra for it.

Now, maybe if the only thing you supported was PCM sound, it might
be possible to avoid Dolby licensing. That might mean paying
for video codecs (mpeg LA?).

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/media-center-will-be-in-windows-8-but-not-right-away/3860

"We already know that some video codecs and Dolby Digital
capabilities will be left out of the base Windows 8 product.
At a buck or two per copy, that’s hundreds of millions of dollars
in expenses for Microsoft over the life of a Windows release - and
it's difficult to justify those outlays if 94% of users don’t want
or need the licensed components.
"

And this link doesn't clarify the situation, as to what you get
with Media Center in Win8.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/dolby-our-technologies-are-not-built-into-microsofts-windows-8/10287

Perhaps someone who is installing Media Center, can test with
GSpot CODEC tool. It's normally used to determine what CODECs
are needed to play a movie. But it will also list the CODECs
currently installed in a system.

http://gspot.headbands.com/v26x/index.htm

http://gspot.headbands.com/v26x/GSpot270a.zip
>

Hi Paul,

There continues to be a fair amount of confusion regarding Media Player's (MP) and Media Center's (MC) capabilities on Win8.

So far, I've yet to see anyone provide solid information (that may or may not exist) that MP will play DVD's with additional
installed codecs usually available from a variety of sources or included in other DVD playable/capable media players.

The presence of MC on Windows 8 Pro and its ability to play DVD's may also require updated Windows 8 graphics drivers (via Windows
Update or the Graphic Card adapter/Chip Manufacturer website ...as an example some of the more recent chips - Intel HD Graphics,
Intel HD Graphics 2000/3000/4000 series - needed an updated driver to provide MC DVD playing capability)

It will be interesting to see how the stand-alone CODEC tools/utilities and third party media players play out moving forward with
both Win8's MP and MC applications.

--
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps

..winston

December 22nd 12, 12:34 AM

You're welcome.
MP on Win8 (as well as MC on Win8) look and feel the same as they did on Win7.
* MP = Media Player; MC = Media Center *

Only MC , afiak at this stage, is the only product of the two (MP and MC) capable of playing DVD's (e.g. movies)

--
....winston
msft mvp

"Dave "Crash" Dummy" wrote in message ...

...winston wrote:
> "BillW50" wrote in message ...
>
>>
> Hopefully Winston will chime in here if I make an error, as he knows this stuff better than me. But purchasing a Windows 8 key
> now is supposed to be good forever (assuming Microsoft servers exists
> forever). And the Media Center can be had by anybody with a valid
> email address, even if you never owned Windows in your life. The key
> thing in this case is that the key you get is supposedly worthless
> after January 31st if you never activate it before then.
>>
>
> Just a few additional comments.
>
> If you purchase a Windows 8 key, OEM preinstalled pc, or Personal Use
> System Builder version before or after the promotional offer your license or ability to upgrade/install Windows 8 does not
> expire after
> the promotional period ends. What will change is the cost of the upgrade and/or Personal User System Builder version (OEM pc's
> with preinstall Win8's have their own 'what I call floating-rate' pc
> costs)
>
> Windows 8 Pro is required to install Windows 8 Media Center
>
> To obtain Media Center for Windows 8 Pro http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/feature-packs - Enter
> your email address and type in the 6 characters - the product key and
> a link to download will be emailed - You don't need to obtain W8
> Media Center from a Win8 Pro pc but it will only install on a Win8
> Pro PC - Win8 Media Center is installed via the Win8 Pro Add Features
> option where you will be prompted to 'buy a key' or 'I have a key' -
> after Jan 31, 2013, the Win8 Media Center will be available for Win8
> Pro at some nominal cost ($10-15 US) - the free offer is only
> available if you install and activate Win8 Media Center on Win8 Pro
> prior to Jan 31, 2013 (i.e. if you obtain it prior to Jan 31, 2013
> but install if after that date you will have to pay the nominal cost)
> - installing Win8 Media Center on a Win8 Pro pc changes the o/s
> version from Win8 Pro to Win 8 Pro with Media Center - installing
> Win8 Media Center changes the license on the pc to a retail license -
> installing Win8 Media Center changes the product key from the
> previous Win8 Pro key to the Win8 Pro with Media Center key - if your
> original pc was an OEM pc (e.g. Dell, HP, Samsung etc.) you will no
> longer be able to obtain OEM specific apps from the MSFT store. -
> after you install Win8 Pro Media Center you are entitled to 90 days
> of no-charge support from MSFT
>
> Notes: (1.) I have no clue how the above impacts support from an/your
> OEM pc manufacturer (2) I have no experience (since Jan 31 has not
> arrived) how one would clean reinstall Win8 Pro and upgrade to Win 8
> Pro with Media Center after Jan 31, 2013 with a Win8 Media Center key
> that was acquired during the promotion (guessing - you'll have to pay
> for it....which makes a strong case to ensure you have a valid backup
> image of your entire System and Boot Volume of Win8 Pro Media Center
> before prematurely jumping off that cliff) (3) You can verify that
> Win8 Media Center changes the o/s product key by comparing the
> product key before and after install. (4) Good luck

Thank you for the detailed explanation. That confirms what I thought
about having to have Windows 8 installed before January 31 to get the
free Media Center. What you post elsewhere clarifies another point. I
was confusing Windows Media Player, which I want, with Windows Media
Center, which I don't care about. If Windows 8 comes with WMP, then I
have no problem with a January 31 deadline.
--
Crash

"Something there is that doesn't love a wall, that wants it down."
~ Robert Frost ~

anotherpaul

December 22nd 12, 06:41 AM

On 2012-12-21, ..winston > wrote:
> Based on the licensing agreement that appears to be MSFT's position....only the Personal User System Builder version has language
> allowing use in a virtual or separate partition.
>
> As noted elsewhere (possibly in this forum or on the net) ...technically feasible vs. allowed are two different animals.
>
>
> --
> ...winston
> msft mvp
>

So, if the win8 overrides/kills the win7 license after installation,
would that also mean one can no longer use the win7 license after
deleting the win8 to re-install the win7...legally since the win7
could not be used?

..winston

December 22nd 12, 08:20 AM

"anotherpaul" wrote in message ...
>
So, if the win8 overrides/kills the win7 license after installation,
would that also mean one can no longer use the win7 license after
deleting the win8 to re-install the win7...legally since the win7
could not be used?
>
The user can always return to their prior o/s but not via the Win8 o/s. Removing Win8 and returning to an earlier o/s (clean
install, recovery media, etc.) and activating the previous o/s and license is permitted. Activation when necessary would be handled
the same as in the past...online or over the phone.

--
....winston
msft mvp

BillW50

December 22nd 12, 09:14 AM

In ,
...winston typed:
> The user can always return to their prior o/s but not via the Win8
> o/s. Removing Win8 and returning to an earlier o/s (clean install,
> recovery media, etc.) and activating the previous o/s and
> license is permitted. Activation when necessary would be handled the
> same as in the past...online or over the phone.

And what does Microsoft say we are suppose to do with the Windows 8 Pro
Upgrade ($199.99 list price) that didn't work out?

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2

Dave-UK

December 22nd 12, 10:21 AM

"..winston" > wrote in message ...
>
>
> "anotherpaul" wrote in message ...
>>
> So, if the win8 overrides/kills the win7 license after installation,
> would that also mean one can no longer use the win7 license after
> deleting the win8 to re-install the win7...legally since the win7
> could not be used?
>>
> The user can always return to their prior o/s but not via the Win8 o/s. Removing Win8 and
>returning to an earlier o/s (clean install, recovery media, etc.) and activating the previous o/s
>and license is permitted. Activation when necessary would be handled
> the same as in the past...online or over the phone.
>
> --
> ...winston
> msft mvp

That's not what it says on my license agreement.
I upgraded to Windows 8 Pro from Windows 7 Pro.
If I right-click Computer > Properties and 'View details in Windows Activation'
there is a link to 'Read the Microsoft Software License Terms'.

There are some Q&A where it says:

"What about upgrading the software? The software covered by this agreement
is an upgrade to your existing system software, so the UPGRADE REPLACES THE
ORIGINAL SOFTWARE THAT YOU ARE UPGRADING. You do not retain any rights to the
original software after you have upgraded and you may not continue to use it
or transfer it in any way. This agreement governs your rights to use the
upgrade software and replaces the agreement for the software from which you
upgraded."

BillW50

December 22nd 12, 04:13 PM

On 12/22/2012 4:21 AM, Dave-UK wrote:
>
> "..winston" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> "anotherpaul" wrote in message ...
>>>
>> So, if the win8 overrides/kills the win7 license after installation,
>> would that also mean one can no longer use the win7 license after
>> deleting the win8 to re-install the win7...legally since the win7
>> could not be used?
>>>
>> The user can always return to their prior o/s but not via the Win8
>> o/s. Removing Win8 and returning to an earlier o/s (clean install,
>> recovery media, etc.) and activating the previous o/s and license is
>> permitted. Activation when necessary would be handled the same as in
>> the past...online or over the phone.
>>
>> --
>> ...winston
>> msft mvp
>
> That's not what it says on my license agreement.
> I upgraded to Windows 8 Pro from Windows 7 Pro.
> If I right-click Computer > Properties and 'View details in Windows
> Activation'
> there is a link to 'Read the Microsoft Software License Terms'.
>
> There are some Q&A where it says:
>
> "What about upgrading the software? The software covered by this agreement
> is an upgrade to your existing system software, so the UPGRADE REPLACES THE
> ORIGINAL SOFTWARE THAT YOU ARE UPGRADING. You do not retain any rights
> to the
> original software after you have upgraded and you may not continue to
> use it
> or transfer it in any way. This agreement governs your rights to use the
> upgrade software and replaces the agreement for the software from which you
> upgraded."

Yes that was my understanding too. So you purchase Windows 8 to replace
Windows 7. And then something doesn't work right... in my case, two
cameras quit working and I lost an hour of battery capacity under
Windows 8 compared to Windows 7 Pro. Plus Windows Updates are not
working. So I need another licence now for a full version of Windows 7
Pro (that costs $279.99 at Newegg). Because the Windows 8 Pro license
doesn't allow for downgrading. :-(

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116717

--
Bill
Dell Latitute Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB - Windows Pro 8

anotherpaul

December 22nd 12, 05:32 PM

On 2012-12-22, BillW50 > wrote:
> On 12/22/2012 4:21 AM, Dave-UK wrote:
>>
>> "..winston" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> "anotherpaul" wrote in message ...
>>>>
>>> So, if the win8 overrides/kills the win7 license after installation,
>>> would that also mean one can no longer use the win7 license after
>>> deleting the win8 to re-install the win7...legally since the win7
>>> could not be used?
>>>>
>>> The user can always return to their prior o/s but not via the Win8
>>> o/s. Removing Win8 and returning to an earlier o/s (clean install,
>>> recovery media, etc.) and activating the previous o/s and license is
>>> permitted. Activation when necessary would be handled the same as in
>>> the past...online or over the phone.
>>>
>>> --
>>> ...winston
>>> msft mvp
>>
>> That's not what it says on my license agreement.
>> I upgraded to Windows 8 Pro from Windows 7 Pro.
>> If I right-click Computer > Properties and 'View details in Windows
>> Activation'
>> there is a link to 'Read the Microsoft Software License Terms'.
>>
>> There are some Q&A where it says:
>>
>> "What about upgrading the software? The software covered by this agreement
>> is an upgrade to your existing system software, so the UPGRADE REPLACES THE
>> ORIGINAL SOFTWARE THAT YOU ARE UPGRADING. You do not retain any rights
>> to the
>> original software after you have upgraded and you may not continue to
>> use it
>> or transfer it in any way. This agreement governs your rights to use the
>> upgrade software and replaces the agreement for the software from which you
>> upgraded."
>
> Yes that was my understanding too. So you purchase Windows 8 to replace
> Windows 7. And then something doesn't work right... in my case, two
> cameras quit working and I lost an hour of battery capacity under
> Windows 8 compared to Windows 7 Pro. Plus Windows Updates are not
> working. So I need another licence now for a full version of Windows 7
> Pro (that costs $279.99 at Newegg). Because the Windows 8 Pro license
> doesn't allow for downgrading. :-(
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116717
>
That's how m$ can make more money to be like apple.

I'm back to win7 on a "clean" install.

To try to get away from the constant "driver power failure state" where
m$ says to check online for "info", I decided to reinstall win8 from
start after formatting the drive. Decided to goback to win7 after
getting "driver power failure state" twice within 1 hr when I didn't
even get to finish configuring win8.

Dual booting is discouraged by m$ by making the permissions for
accessing various drives, partitions, folders & files. Depending how
much one has on a WORKING system, changing the permissions between
the OS's is a pain especially when inheritance changes are not
that dependable.

BillW50

December 22nd 12, 07:27 PM

On 12/22/2012 11:19 AM, fritz wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 10:13:19 -0600, > wrote:
>
>> On 12/22/2012 4:21 AM, Dave-UK wrote:
>>>
>>> > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "anotherpaul" wrote in message ...
>>>>>
>>>> So, if the win8 overrides/kills the win7 license after installation,
>>>> would that also mean one can no longer use the win7 license after
>>>> deleting the win8 to re-install the win7...legally since the win7
>>>> could not be used?
>>>>>
>>>> The user can always return to their prior o/s but not via the Win8
>>>> o/s. Removing Win8 and returning to an earlier o/s (clean install,
>>>> recovery media, etc.) and activating the previous o/s and license is
>>>> permitted. Activation when necessary would be handled the same as in
>>>> the past...online or over the phone.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ...winston
>>>> msft mvp
>>>
>>> That's not what it says on my license agreement.
>>> I upgraded to Windows 8 Pro from Windows 7 Pro.
>>> If I right-click Computer> Properties and 'View details in Windows
>>> Activation'
>>> there is a link to 'Read the Microsoft Software License Terms'.
>>>
>>> There are some Q&A where it says:
>>>
>>> "What about upgrading the software? The software covered by this agreement
>>> is an upgrade to your existing system software, so the UPGRADE REPLACES THE
>>> ORIGINAL SOFTWARE THAT YOU ARE UPGRADING. You do not retain any rights
>>> to the
>>> original software after you have upgraded and you may not continue to
>>> use it
>>> or transfer it in any way. This agreement governs your rights to use the
>>> upgrade software and replaces the agreement for the software from which you
>>> upgraded."
>>
>> Yes that was my understanding too. So you purchase Windows 8 to replace
>> Windows 7. And then something doesn't work right... in my case, two
>> cameras quit working and I lost an hour of battery capacity under
>> Windows 8 compared to Windows 7 Pro. Plus Windows Updates are not
>> working. So I need another licence now for a full version of Windows 7
>> Pro (that costs $279.99 at Newegg). Because the Windows 8 Pro license
>> doesn't allow for downgrading. :-(
>>
>> ...
>
> Horsepucky.
>
> None of that says you can't remove Win8 by restoring a Win7 image.
>
> It does say that after you upgrade to Win8 you can't _also_ use the
> original software.
>
>> --
>> Bill
>> Dell Latitute
>
> Latitute is nowhere as bad as the top posters and the goobers who say
> **** you to those who expect proper quote marking.

Something isn't making any sense here. If you can't dualboot between
Windows 7 and Windows 8. But you can keep backups of Windows 7? Then can
you also keep backups of Windows 8 too? Then one week you feel like
running Windows 7 so you restore Windows 7 from a backup. Fine. Now you
feel like running Windows 8 the next week. So you restore Windows 8. If
this is ok, then this is virtually the same thing as dualbooting. Just a
bit more time consuming.

--
Bill
Dell Latitude Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB - Windows Pro 8

BillW50

December 22nd 12, 07:41 PM

On 12/22/2012 11:32 AM, anotherpaul wrote:
> On 2012-12-22, > wrote:
>> On 12/22/2012 4:21 AM, Dave-UK wrote:
>>>
>>> > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "anotherpaul" wrote in message ...
>>>>>
>>>> So, if the win8 overrides/kills the win7 license after installation,
>>>> would that also mean one can no longer use the win7 license after
>>>> deleting the win8 to re-install the win7...legally since the win7
>>>> could not be used?
>>>>>
>>>> The user can always return to their prior o/s but not via the Win8
>>>> o/s. Removing Win8 and returning to an earlier o/s (clean install,
>>>> recovery media, etc.) and activating the previous o/s and license is
>>>> permitted. Activation when necessary would be handled the same as in
>>>> the past...online or over the phone.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ...winston
>>>> msft mvp
>>>
>>> That's not what it says on my license agreement.
>>> I upgraded to Windows 8 Pro from Windows 7 Pro.
>>> If I right-click Computer> Properties and 'View details in Windows
>>> Activation'
>>> there is a link to 'Read the Microsoft Software License Terms'.
>>>
>>> There are some Q&A where it says:
>>>
>>> "What about upgrading the software? The software covered by this agreement
>>> is an upgrade to your existing system software, so the UPGRADE REPLACES THE
>>> ORIGINAL SOFTWARE THAT YOU ARE UPGRADING. You do not retain any rights
>>> to the
>>> original software after you have upgraded and you may not continue to
>>> use it
>>> or transfer it in any way. This agreement governs your rights to use the
>>> upgrade software and replaces the agreement for the software from which you
>>> upgraded."
>>
>> Yes that was my understanding too. So you purchase Windows 8 to replace
>> Windows 7. And then something doesn't work right... in my case, two
>> cameras quit working and I lost an hour of battery capacity under
>> Windows 8 compared to Windows 7 Pro. Plus Windows Updates are not
>> working. So I need another licence now for a full version of Windows 7
>> Pro (that costs $279.99 at Newegg). Because the Windows 8 Pro license
>> doesn't allow for downgrading. :-(
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116717
>>
> That's how m$ can make more money to be like apple.
>
> I'm back to win7 on a "clean" install.
>
> To try to get away from the constant "driver power failure state" where
> m$ says to check online for "info", I decided to reinstall win8 from
> start after formatting the drive. Decided to goback to win7 after
> getting "driver power failure state" twice within 1 hr when I didn't
> even get to finish configuring win8.
>
> Dual booting is discouraged by m$ by making the permissions for
> accessing various drives, partitions, folders& files. Depending how
> much one has on a WORKING system, changing the permissions between
> the OS's is a pain especially when inheritance changes are not
> that dependable.

That driver power failure state, is that from an USB device? My WiFi
driver disappears on this machine a couple of times a day. Sometimes
disabling and then reenabling brings it back in the Device Manager.
Although sometimes it isn't that easy and only uninstalling the WiFi
driver and reinstalling always gets it back so far. :-(

--
Bill
Dell Latitude Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB - Windows Pro 8

Robin Bignall

December 22nd 12, 08:00 PM

On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 13:27:22 -0600, BillW50 > wrote:

>On 12/22/2012 11:19 AM, fritz wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 10:13:19 -0600, > wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/22/2012 4:21 AM, Dave-UK wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "anotherpaul" wrote in message ...
>>>>>>
>>>>> So, if the win8 overrides/kills the win7 license after installation,
>>>>> would that also mean one can no longer use the win7 license after
>>>>> deleting the win8 to re-install the win7...legally since the win7
>>>>> could not be used?
>>>>>>
>>>>> The user can always return to their prior o/s but not via the Win8
>>>>> o/s. Removing Win8 and returning to an earlier o/s (clean install,
>>>>> recovery media, etc.) and activating the previous o/s and license is
>>>>> permitted. Activation when necessary would be handled the same as in
>>>>> the past...online or over the phone.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ...winston
>>>>> msft mvp
>>>>
>>>> That's not what it says on my license agreement.
>>>> I upgraded to Windows 8 Pro from Windows 7 Pro.
>>>> If I right-click Computer> Properties and 'View details in Windows
>>>> Activation'
>>>> there is a link to 'Read the Microsoft Software License Terms'.
>>>>
>>>> There are some Q&A where it says:
>>>>
>>>> "What about upgrading the software? The software covered by this agreement
>>>> is an upgrade to your existing system software, so the UPGRADE REPLACES THE
>>>> ORIGINAL SOFTWARE THAT YOU ARE UPGRADING. You do not retain any rights
>>>> to the
>>>> original software after you have upgraded and you may not continue to
>>>> use it
>>>> or transfer it in any way. This agreement governs your rights to use the
>>>> upgrade software and replaces the agreement for the software from which you
>>>> upgraded."
>>>
>>> Yes that was my understanding too. So you purchase Windows 8 to replace
>>> Windows 7. And then something doesn't work right... in my case, two
>>> cameras quit working and I lost an hour of battery capacity under
>>> Windows 8 compared to Windows 7 Pro. Plus Windows Updates are not
>>> working. So I need another licence now for a full version of Windows 7
>>> Pro (that costs $279.99 at Newegg). Because the Windows 8 Pro license
>>> doesn't allow for downgrading. :-(
>>>
>>> ...
>>
>> Horsepucky.
>>
>> None of that says you can't remove Win8 by restoring a Win7 image.
>>
>> It does say that after you upgrade to Win8 you can't _also_ use the
>> original software.
>>
>>> --
>>> Bill
>>> Dell Latitute
>>
>> Latitute is nowhere as bad as the top posters and the goobers who say
>> **** you to those who expect proper quote marking.
>
>Something isn't making any sense here. If you can't dualboot between
>Windows 7 and Windows 8. But you can keep backups of Windows 7? Then can
>you also keep backups of Windows 8 too? Then one week you feel like
>running Windows 7 so you restore Windows 7 from a backup. Fine. Now you
>feel like running Windows 8 the next week. So you restore Windows 8. If
>this is ok, then this is virtually the same thing as dualbooting. Just a
>bit more time consuming.

The way I read it is the same as you and Dave-UK. Win8 replaces the
Win7 and the latter can no longer be used. Sure, you can reinstall Win7
from an image, but will it re-activate? I dunno; I can't get Win8 to
install on this system, but has anyone upgraded, didn't like Win8 and
tried to reinstall Win7?
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

BillW50

December 22nd 12, 08:26 PM

On 12/22/2012 2:00 PM, Robin Bignall wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 13:27:22 -0600, > wrote:
>
>> On 12/22/2012 11:19 AM, fritz wrote:
>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 10:13:19 -0600, > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/22/2012 4:21 AM, Dave-UK wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "anotherpaul" wrote in message ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, if the win8 overrides/kills the win7 license after installation,
>>>>>> would that also mean one can no longer use the win7 license after
>>>>>> deleting the win8 to re-install the win7...legally since the win7
>>>>>> could not be used?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> The user can always return to their prior o/s but not via the Win8
>>>>>> o/s. Removing Win8 and returning to an earlier o/s (clean install,
>>>>>> recovery media, etc.) and activating the previous o/s and license is
>>>>>> permitted. Activation when necessary would be handled the same as in
>>>>>> the past...online or over the phone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> ...winston
>>>>>> msft mvp
>>>>>
>>>>> That's not what it says on my license agreement.
>>>>> I upgraded to Windows 8 Pro from Windows 7 Pro.
>>>>> If I right-click Computer> Properties and 'View details in Windows
>>>>> Activation'
>>>>> there is a link to 'Read the Microsoft Software License Terms'.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are some Q&A where it says:
>>>>>
>>>>> "What about upgrading the software? The software covered by this agreement
>>>>> is an upgrade to your existing system software, so the UPGRADE REPLACES THE
>>>>> ORIGINAL SOFTWARE THAT YOU ARE UPGRADING. You do not retain any rights
>>>>> to the
>>>>> original software after you have upgraded and you may not continue to
>>>>> use it
>>>>> or transfer it in any way. This agreement governs your rights to use the
>>>>> upgrade software and replaces the agreement for the software from which you
>>>>> upgraded."
>>>>
>>>> Yes that was my understanding too. So you purchase Windows 8 to replace
>>>> Windows 7. And then something doesn't work right... in my case, two
>>>> cameras quit working and I lost an hour of battery capacity under
>>>> Windows 8 compared to Windows 7 Pro. Plus Windows Updates are not
>>>> working. So I need another licence now for a full version of Windows 7
>>>> Pro (that costs $279.99 at Newegg). Because the Windows 8 Pro license
>>>> doesn't allow for downgrading. :-(
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>
>>> Horsepucky.
>>>
>>> None of that says you can't remove Win8 by restoring a Win7 image.
>>>
>>> It does say that after you upgrade to Win8 you can't _also_ use the
>>> original software.
>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Bill
>>>> Dell Latitute
>>>
>>> Latitute is nowhere as bad as the top posters and the goobers who say
>>> **** you to those who expect proper quote marking.
>>
>> Something isn't making any sense here. If you can't dualboot between
>> Windows 7 and Windows 8. But you can keep backups of Windows 7? Then can
>> you also keep backups of Windows 8 too? Then one week you feel like
>> running Windows 7 so you restore Windows 7 from a backup. Fine. Now you
>> feel like running Windows 8 the next week. So you restore Windows 8. If
>> this is ok, then this is virtually the same thing as dualbooting. Just a
>> bit more time consuming.
>
> The way I read it is the same as you and Dave-UK. Win8 replaces the
> Win7 and the latter can no longer be used. Sure, you can reinstall Win7
> from an image, but will it re-activate? I dunno; I can't get Win8 to
> install on this system, but has anyone upgraded, didn't like Win8 and
> tried to reinstall Win7?

Yup, me too. Once you install Windows 8 Upgrade I read that your old
Windows 7 license is invalid and you must destroy all Windows 7 backup
copies. And you are stuck with Windows 8, whether you like it or not.
And if you don't like it, then the Windows 8 license also becomes worthless.

Activation? That isn't a problem if you made a backup copy or clone
after it has been activated. Windows will never ask you to reactivate
unless the hardware changes enough.

--
Bill
Dell Latitude Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB - Windows Pro 8

anotherpaul

December 22nd 12, 09:40 PM

On 2012-12-22, BillW50 > wrote:
> On 12/22/2012 11:32 AM, anotherpaul wrote:
....................snips...............
>> That's how m$ can make more money to be like apple.
>>
>> I'm back to win7 on a "clean" install.
>>
>> To try to get away from the constant "driver power failure state" where
>> m$ says to check online for "info", I decided to reinstall win8 from
>> start after formatting the drive. Decided to goback to win7 after
>> getting "driver power failure state" twice within 1 hr when I didn't
>> even get to finish configuring win8.
>>
>> Dual booting is discouraged by m$ by making the permissions for
>> accessing various drives, partitions, folders& files. Depending how
>> much one has on a WORKING system, changing the permissions between
>> the OS's is a pain especially when inheritance changes are not
>> that dependable.
>
> That driver power failure state, is that from an USB device? My WiFi
> driver disappears on this machine a couple of times a day. Sometimes
> disabling and then reenabling brings it back in the Device Manager.
> Although sometimes it isn't that easy and only uninstalling the WiFi
> driver and reinstalling always gets it back so far. :-(
>
So far, I've seen the driver power failure state attributed to the
display adaptor, usb, hdd, dvd burner & network card. Take your
choice of where the problem lies.

In my case, m$ took over doing the drivers for usb3 & it doesn't work
with the mb's usb3; but it does work with siig's pcie usb3 board! When
the hdd was connected to the mb usb3, the win8 disk manager claims the
hdd was "not initialized".

BillW50

December 22nd 12, 09:44 PM

On 12/22/2012 3:10 PM, fritz wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 20:00:27 +0000, Robin Bignall
> > wrote:
>
>> The way I read it is the same as you and Dave-UK. Win8 replaces the
>> Win7 and the latter can no longer be used. Sure, you can reinstall Win7
>>from an image, but will it re-activate?
>
> One doesn't reinstall an image, one restores it.

Oh come on! The bottom line is the same. Sure you can reinstall
everything or restore from a backup, the results are the same.

> Reactivation is not
> an issue - all the activation stuff is in the image.

Hopefully! You don't know how many backup programs have burned me
before. Like Realflight for example with all of the addons requires like
18 different keys. And some backup software doesn't restore the keys and
Realflight ask for every single one after a restore with some backup
programs.

> Think about it - All the os partitions that get restored and all the
> SSDs that get the OS moved to them don't have to get activated again,
> because... taa daa... the activation stuff is already there.

Only if Windows thinks nothing has changed. If it sees anything has
changed like the motherboard or something, you have to reactivate. Even
if the motherboard hasn't, it just thinks it has.

>> I dunno; I can't get Win8 to
>> install on this system, but has anyone upgraded, didn't like Win8 and
>> tried to reinstall Win7?
>
> Reinstall, no. Restore, yes. Did that on 12 Nov and all was as it
> should be after the exercise and still is. Done with Acronis True
> Image.

Oh man! I have tons of horror stories about Acronis. I think I have like
about 13 pages worth. That is one of them that burns me on Realflight
actually. And version after version carries the same bugs they had for
over 6 years now. And will they refund your money if the new version has
the same bugs as the old one? In my experience, no!

--
Bill
Dell Latitude Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB - Windows Pro 8

anotherpaul

December 22nd 12, 09:47 PM

On 2012-12-22, fritz > wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 20:00:27 +0000, Robin Bignall
> wrote:
>
>>The way I read it is the same as you and Dave-UK. Win8 replaces the
>>Win7 and the latter can no longer be used. Sure, you can reinstall Win7
>>from an image, but will it re-activate?
>
> One doesn't reinstall an image, one restores it. Reactivation is not
> an issue - all the activation stuff is in the image.
>
> Think about it - All the os partitions that get restored and all the
> SSDs that get the OS moved to them don't have to get activated again,
> because... taa daa... the activation stuff is already there.
>
>>I dunno; I can't get Win8 to
>>install on this system, but has anyone upgraded, didn't like Win8 and
>>tried to reinstall Win7?
>
> Reinstall, no. Restore, yes. Did that on 12 Nov and all was as it
> should be after the exercise and still is. Done with Acronis True
> Image.

I did the reinstall yesterday. Read this post about the activation
& checked but had thought that it was activated during the install.
Anyway, the system info page says I got 2 days left to activate & so I
hit the "activate now" & it got done. The system info say my win7
is now activated.

My copy of win7 was streamlined with the sp1 & it still had around
98 updates to do! Still getting the "no permission" regarding a file
every now & then; a big pain because of the way the "security" was
implemented. As I'm the only one on the system, I have decided to
make the "owner" as "everyone" & with full control; it might help
next time on an OS change/upgrade/update.

..winston

December 22nd 12, 11:19 PM

"BillW50" wrote in message ...

> And what does Microsoft say we are suppose to do with the Windows 8 Pro Upgrade ($199.99 list price) that didn't work out?

Understand what you bought and the return policy
http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/productrefund/refund.mspx

Robin Bignall

December 22nd 12, 11:22 PM

On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 21:47:44 +0000 (UTC), anotherpaul
> wrote:

>On 2012-12-22, fritz > wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 20:00:27 +0000, Robin Bignall
> wrote:
>>
>>>The way I read it is the same as you and Dave-UK. Win8 replaces the
>>>Win7 and the latter can no longer be used. Sure, you can reinstall Win7
>>>from an image, but will it re-activate?
>>
>> One doesn't reinstall an image, one restores it. Reactivation is not
>> an issue - all the activation stuff is in the image.
>>
>> Think about it - All the os partitions that get restored and all the
>> SSDs that get the OS moved to them don't have to get activated again,
>> because... taa daa... the activation stuff is already there.
>>
>>>I dunno; I can't get Win8 to
>>>install on this system, but has anyone upgraded, didn't like Win8 and
>>>tried to reinstall Win7?
>>
>> Reinstall, no. Restore, yes. Did that on 12 Nov and all was as it
>> should be after the exercise and still is. Done with Acronis True
>> Image.
>
>I did the reinstall yesterday. Read this post about the activation
>& checked but had thought that it was activated during the install.
>Anyway, the system info page says I got 2 days left to activate & so I
>hit the "activate now" & it got done. The system info say my win7
>is now activated.
>
>My copy of win7 was streamlined with the sp1 & it still had around
>98 updates to do! Still getting the "no permission" regarding a file
>every now & then; a big pain because of the way the "security" was
>implemented. As I'm the only one on the system, I have decided to
>make the "owner" as "everyone" & with full control; it might help
>next time on an OS change/upgrade/update.

So, if you can install an upgrade to W8 (which is supposed to invalidate
the W7 licence) and then go back to W7 by overwriting W8 with your
activated W7 image, what in the blue blazes does the licence actually
mean?

My (wrong) guess about activation was because I thought that M$ checks
your system each time you log on, and presumably could somehow
invalidate something that was not licensed. Now I'm confused.
If, for instance, you have an OEM licence for a ASUS system and you try
to install it on a Gigabyte, what happens?

--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

..winston

December 22nd 12, 11:24 PM

You can either keep what you purchased and use it later or return it in 45 days
http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/productrefund/refund.mspx

Reinstalling your prior os after returning your Win8 o/s will require activation - online or over the phone.

What you quoted is applicable to your prior o/s after you upgrade and use Win8.
-i.e. your prior o/s can not be used or transferred, it was the qualifying o/s for the use of the upgrade version of Win8 which
came with its license and key.

What you quoted is not applicable if your return your Win8 since that Win8 will no longer be in use thus negating the previous
disqualified o/s.

--
....winston
msft mvp

"Dave-UK" wrote in message ...

"..winston" > wrote in message ...
>
>
> "anotherpaul" wrote in message ...
>>
> So, if the win8 overrides/kills the win7 license after installation,
> would that also mean one can no longer use the win7 license after
> deleting the win8 to re-install the win7...legally since the win7
> could not be used?
>>
> The user can always return to their prior o/s but not via the Win8 o/s. Removing Win8 and returning to an earlier o/s (clean
> install, recovery media, etc.) and activating the previous o/s and license is permitted. Activation when necessary would be
> handled the same as in the past...online or over the phone.
>
> --
> ...winston
> msft mvp

That's not what it says on my license agreement.
I upgraded to Windows 8 Pro from Windows 7 Pro.
If I right-click Computer > Properties and 'View details in Windows Activation'
there is a link to 'Read the Microsoft Software License Terms'.

There are some Q&A where it says:

"What about upgrading the software? The software covered by this agreement
is an upgrade to your existing system software, so the UPGRADE REPLACES THE
ORIGINAL SOFTWARE THAT YOU ARE UPGRADING. You do not retain any rights to the
original software after you have upgraded and you may not continue to use it
or transfer it in any way. This agreement governs your rights to use the
upgrade software and replaces the agreement for the software from which you
upgraded."

BillW50

December 23rd 12, 12:26 AM

On 12/22/2012 5:19 PM, ..winston wrote:
>
> "BillW50" wrote in message ...
>
>> And what does Microsoft say we are suppose to do with the Windows 8
>> Pro Upgrade ($199.99 list price) that didn't work out?
>
> Understand what you bought and the return policy
> http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/productrefund/refund.mspx

Go ahead winston... show me examples where this actually worked.
Otherwise why should I waste my time just like the many others before
that got nowhere? I must have sent in like 12 request over the decades
and nothing ever happened. Nowadays I just assume you buy everything at
your own risk (regardless of the promise of a money back guarantee). And
if it doesn't work out, at least we have the Internet to warn others. ;-)

--
Bill
Dell Latitude Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB - Windows Pro 8

anotherpaul

December 23rd 12, 03:14 AM

On 2012-12-23, BillW50 > wrote:
> On 12/22/2012 5:19 PM, ..winston wrote:
>>
>> "BillW50" wrote in message ...
>>
>>> And what does Microsoft say we are suppose to do with the Windows 8
>>> Pro Upgrade ($199.99 list price) that didn't work out?
>>
>> Understand what you bought and the return policy
>> http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/productrefund/refund.mspx
>
> Go ahead winston... show me examples where this actually worked.
> Otherwise why should I waste my time just like the many others before
> that got nowhere? I must have sent in like 12 request over the decades
> and nothing ever happened. Nowadays I just assume you buy everything at
> your own risk (regardless of the promise of a money back guarantee). And
> if it doesn't work out, at least we have the Internet to warn others. ;-)
>
Sounds like the all the dumps that I sent to m$ as per the dialogue
box regarding the "driver power failure state". The info just got
sent to the "bit bucket" at microsoft &/or no one looks at them.

BillW50

December 23rd 12, 06:22 PM

On 12/22/2012 9:14 PM, anotherpaul wrote:
> On 2012-12-23, > wrote:
>> On 12/22/2012 5:19 PM, ..winston wrote:
>>>
>>> "BillW50" wrote in message ...
>>>
>>>> And what does Microsoft say we are suppose to do with the Windows 8
>>>> Pro Upgrade ($199.99 list price) that didn't work out?
>>>
>>> Understand what you bought and the return policy
>>> http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/productrefund/refund.mspx
>>
>> Go ahead winston... show me examples where this actually worked.
>> Otherwise why should I waste my time just like the many others before
>> that got nowhere? I must have sent in like 12 request over the decades
>> and nothing ever happened. Nowadays I just assume you buy everything at
>> your own risk (regardless of the promise of a money back guarantee). And
>> if it doesn't work out, at least we have the Internet to warn others. ;-)
>>
> Sounds like the all the dumps that I sent to m$ as per the dialogue
> box regarding the "driver power failure state". The info just got
> sent to the "bit bucket" at microsoft&/or no one looks at them.

Yes very much so. I always found Microsoft support less than impressive. :-(

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8