Start8 allows you to get back to Windows 7.

[Evgenii Sputnik]

Hello Windows8users!

I recently installed Windows 8, found it useless.
And removed.

But then I heard of Start8 for Windows8.

I installed it.... and found Windows 8 works!
(Exactly like Windows 7 worked but even faster!)

Google "Start8" or follow my link
http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/, newsgrouper!

Start8 gets back normal Windows 7 on Windows 8.

NEW KERNEL - CLASSICAL INTERFACE! MUST HAVE FOR EVERYONE!

(Unless you are fan of Windows 8 interface....)

--
Evgenii Sputnik +79134596180
We should create misc.phone.mobile.android newsgroup....

[BillW50]

In ,
Evgenii Sputnik typed:
> Hello Windows8users!
>
> I recently installed Windows 8, found it useless.
> And removed.
>
> But then I heard of Start8 for Windows8.
>
> I installed it.... and found Windows 8 works!
> (Exactly like Windows 7 worked but even faster!)
>
> Google "Start8" or follow my link
> http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/, newsgrouper!
>
> Start8 gets back normal Windows 7 on Windows 8.
>
> NEW KERNEL - CLASSICAL INTERFACE! MUST HAVE FOR EVERYONE!
>
> (Unless you are fan of Windows 8 interface....)

Yes many people do. Also others like Classic Shell, Aston Shell, etc.
are also used. Especially among those that doesn't know how to work the
Start Screen yet. Myself, some machines I do and some machines I don't.
;-)

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2

[philo [_4_]]

On 12/27/2012 08:35 AM, BillW50 wrote:
> In ,
> Evgenii Sputnik typed:
>> Hello Windows8users!
>>
>> I recently installed Windows 8, found it useless.
>> And removed.
>>
>> But then I heard of Start8 for Windows8.
>>
>> I installed it.... and found Windows 8 works!
>> (Exactly like Windows 7 worked but even faster!)
>>
>> Google "Start8" or follow my link
>> http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/, newsgrouper!
>>
>> Start8 gets back normal Windows 7 on Windows 8.
>>
>> NEW KERNEL - CLASSICAL INTERFACE! MUST HAVE FOR EVERYONE!
>>
>> (Unless you are fan of Windows 8 interface....)
>
> Yes many people do. Also others like Classic Shell, Aston Shell, etc.
> are also used. Especially among those that doesn't know how to work the
> Start Screen yet. Myself, some machines I do and some machines I don't.
> ;-)
>


I'm sure "Start8" is good, but I'd probably use one of the free alternatives

--
https://www.createspace.com/3707686

[Ken Blake[_4_]]

On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 09:19:24 -0600, philo* > wrote:

> On 12/27/2012 08:35 AM, BillW50 wrote:
> > In ,
> > Evgenii Sputnik typed:
> >> Hello Windows8users!
> >>
> >> I recently installed Windows 8, found it useless.
> >> And removed.
> >>
> >> But then I heard of Start8 for Windows8.
> >>
> >> I installed it.... and found Windows 8 works!
> >> (Exactly like Windows 7 worked but even faster!)
> >>
> >> Google "Start8" or follow my link
> >> http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/, newsgrouper!
> >>
> >> Start8 gets back normal Windows 7 on Windows 8.
> >>
> >> NEW KERNEL - CLASSICAL INTERFACE! MUST HAVE FOR EVERYONE!
> >>
> >> (Unless you are fan of Windows 8 interface....)
> >
> > Yes many people do. Also others like Classic Shell, Aston Shell, etc.
> > are also used. Especially among those that doesn't know how to work the
> > Start Screen yet. Myself, some machines I do and some machines I don't.
> > ;-)
> >
>
>
> I'm sure "Start8" is good, but I'd probably use one of the free alternatives


Classic Shell, one of the free alternatives, is also good. But Start8
is even better. And for only $4.99...


--
Ken Blake

[SC Tom[_3_]]

"Ken Blake" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 09:19:24 -0600, philo > wrote:
>
>> On 12/27/2012 08:35 AM, BillW50 wrote:
>> > In ,
>> > Evgenii Sputnik typed:
>> >> Hello Windows8users!
>> >>
>> >> I recently installed Windows 8, found it useless.
>> >> And removed.
>> >>
>> >> But then I heard of Start8 for Windows8.
>> >>
>> >> I installed it.... and found Windows 8 works!
>> >> (Exactly like Windows 7 worked but even faster!)
>> >>
>> >> Google "Start8" or follow my link
>> >> http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/, newsgrouper!
>> >>
>> >> Start8 gets back normal Windows 7 on Windows 8.
>> >>
>> >> NEW KERNEL - CLASSICAL INTERFACE! MUST HAVE FOR EVERYONE!
>> >>
>> >> (Unless you are fan of Windows 8 interface....)
>> >
>> > Yes many people do. Also others like Classic Shell, Aston Shell, etc.
>> > are also used. Especially among those that doesn't know how to work the
>> > Start Screen yet. Myself, some machines I do and some machines I don't.
>> > ;-)
>> >
>>
>>
>> I'm sure "Start8" is good, but I'd probably use one of the free
>> alternatives
>
>
> Classic Shell, one of the free alternatives, is also good. But Start8
> is even better. And for only $4.99...
>
I like this freebie:
<http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/157302-windows-7-explorer-for-windows-8/>

Been using it since day 3 or so :-)
--
SC Tom

[Nil[_2_]]

On 27 Dec 2012, Ken Blake > wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

> Classic Shell, one of the free alternatives, is also good. But
> Start8 is even better. And for only $4.99...

What do you like better about it?

[JJ[_9_]]

Evgenii Sputnik > wrote:
> Hello Windows8users!
>
> I recently installed Windows 8, found it useless.
> And removed.
>
> But then I heard of Start8 for Windows8.
>
> I installed it.... and found Windows 8 works!
> (Exactly like Windows 7 worked but even faster!)
>
> Google "Start8" or follow my link
> http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/, newsgrouper!
>
> Start8 gets back normal Windows 7 on Windows 8.
>
> NEW KERNEL - CLASSICAL INTERFACE! MUST HAVE FOR EVERYONE!
>
> (Unless you are fan of Windows 8 interface....)

Can Start8 also make Win8 "Start Screen" not to show up every time I log
in? I want it to show the desktop instead of the "Start Screen".

[BillW50]

On 12/27/2012 2:06 PM, JJ wrote:
> Evgenii > wrote:
>> Hello Windows8users!
>>
>> I recently installed Windows 8, found it useless.
>> And removed.
>>
>> But then I heard of Start8 for Windows8.
>>
>> I installed it.... and found Windows 8 works!
>> (Exactly like Windows 7 worked but even faster!)
>>
>> Google "Start8" or follow my link
>> http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/, newsgrouper!
>>
>> Start8 gets back normal Windows 7 on Windows 8.
>>
>> NEW KERNEL - CLASSICAL INTERFACE! MUST HAVE FOR EVERYONE!
>>
>> (Unless you are fan of Windows 8 interface....)
>
> Can Start8 also make Win8 "Start Screen" not to show up every time I log
> in? I want it to show the desktop instead of the "Start Screen".

There are many ways to do this too. You can do this through the Task
Scheduler. Although I need none of that. I just use Standby or
Hibernation and it goes right back where I last left it. Right at the
desktop. :-)

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 7 SP1

[VanguardLH[_2_]]

"Ken Blake" wrote:

> Classic Shell, one of the free alternatives, is also good. But Start8
> is even better. And for only $4.99...

Better how? Besides just putzing with the Start menu and skipping
directly to the desktop, Classic Shell includes a Classic Explorer
plug-in that eliminates some of the gimmickry and replaces lost
functionality in Windows Explorer. They also have their Classic IE9
plug-in. It looks like Stardock is using Classic Shell as the base
against which to measure their product. When Classic Shell had a Win7
start menu skin, Stardock had to catch up to add it; however, Start8's
implementation is a bit better as Classic Shell doesn't permit app
pinning (yet if that were really a highly popular and desired feature
and since Classic Shell is open source then if lots of users wanted
pinning then the feature could be added - so it looks like pinning isn't
really that important or prevalent). While Classic Shell was available
for Vista & 7, Start8 is the new boy and only available for Win8 hence
the "8" in its product name. Classic Shell has had 3 years to mature
and it encompasses more Windows versions than just Windows 8. If you
have a mix of Windows platforms, Classic Shell lets you have that same
GUI on all of them. Not Start8 (all of 5 months old) which will puke
with a "minimum system requirements were not met" error if you attempt
installation on a pre-Win8 host. System requirements:

Classic Shell:
Windows Vista
Windows 7
Windows 8
Windows Server 2008
Windows Server 2008 R2
Windows Server 2012
Start8:
Windows 8
Windows Server 2012

I've read where users ran into flaky problems with Start8. It is, after
all, the new boy on the block. Users could run Notepad from the Recent
list in the Start menu but the history shortcut to Word locked up that
app. Users have also complained about the activation process which
requires online (Internet) access as it sometimes doesn't work. It is
not just going online to validate but also sending them a machine SID,
computer name, IP, and other info specific to your host. In other
words, they've resorted to Microsoft's scheme of generating a platform
ID to validate a license for activation on one host. If you read the
EULA for Start8, it says the license cannot be used on more than one
computer. If you have N hosts where you want an alternative desktop
manager, you'll have to *buy* N licenses (at $5) to get the same GUI on
each of your N hosts. With Classic Shell, you can install it on as many
hosts as you want. Start8 is for personal-use (non-business use) only.
Classic Shell is distributed under the MIT/X11 license so it can be used
on any number of hosts regardless if for personal or business use.

So, after buying 1 license that you get to use on only 1 computer, where
it ONLY works on Windows 8 obviating the ability to have a common GUI
across different versions of Windows, having to divulge a valid e-mail
address to get their download link (which is bogus - see below), and
having to perform online activation (to provide a platform ID to track
the license) so you can continue use after 30 days, just how is Start8
"better"? Yes, Start8 can display both Metro (Windows store) apps along
with desktop apps but does that one dubious feature (since we're
discussing how NOT to show the Metro UI) really make Start8 better than
Classic Shell?

It looks like Start8 ($5) is Stardock's means to lure those users to
their Object Desktop ($50). Are there ANY ads, promos, or upgrades
mentioned anywhere in an installation of Start8 or during its
installation? To get Start8 has them harvest a valid e-mail address
from you; however, it is a bogus requirement because their e-mail sends
you to CNet (http://download.cnet.com/Start8/3000-2072_4-75732532.html).
I suggest using a temporary or disposable account or use an alias that
self-terminates or you can kill/disable/delete.

Download page (also compares features of Start8 and Object Desktop):
http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/download.asp

Replacing the Windows shell is nothing new. That ability has been
available for a long time (I believe since Windows 3.1). It's just
getting more press now because of all the discontent voiced by desktop
users with Microsoft's choice of overlaying a mobile-centric GUI onto a
desktop installation. There was noise about the GUI changes in Vista
from long-time XP users. There was noise about XP for the GUI changes
from 2000, and so on. Microsoft has used the ploy of changing the GUI
to deliberately mislead users into believing the next version was a
major change to convince users to buy. It was new because, um, it was
different and being different means a software author can list those
changes to prod new sales. New doesn't mean better. New often just
means different. If Microsoft had used the same GUI as XP in all
successive versions of Windows, there would be nothing to spur users
into buying Vista (which had poor sales, anyway) or 7 or 8. Yes, there
were feature changes and few improvements (along with additional
confusion due to the GUI change) but users would have already acquired
3rd party software to accomplish those same changes by the time the next
Windows version emerged. The major technological changes in each
version don't have enough draw to pull in significant sales in the
consumer market since the existing version already in use is satisfying
those users' needs. Shorter boot time by modifying hibernation to
include saving the state of core OS processes to disk instead of
restarting them isn't going to induce users to pay for the OS upgrade.
A shortening of 5-10 seconds in boot time which is insignificant
compared to the entire boot time (post, load Windows, load all startup
programs) will not effect huge sales. Not all users want to buy another
hardware platform to keep up with the ever increasing hardware
requirements with each subsequent version of Windows so you need to
provide some other oomph factor, even if bogus or trivial, as an impetus
for users to change. Users would prefer to spend their money on faster,
bigger, or more hardware than on the behind-the-scenes technical
improvements in a newer OS version. Slapping on a new GUI is the best
marketing trick to convince consumers that something is new and that
they must have because, gee, using an old staid but stable and
well-known GUI just ain't cool.

In the long past, the default shell was explorer.exe (Windows Explorer).
You could change the shell by:

1. Load regedit.exe.
2. To replace the graphical user interface (GUI):
a) For all users, go to:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon
a) For just one user, go to:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon
and under there add a data item of string type named Shell.
3. Change the Shell data item:
from: explorer.exe
to : the path to the executable file for the replacement shell
4. Log out and back in.

Another scheme for replacing the desktop manager is using policies.
This is mostly used in corporate environments to force all workstations
to use the same GUI as they have no interest in wasting the resources of
their IT or helpdesk staff to support a non-standard shell. To change
the windows shell via per-user policies (this is from the viewpoint of
changing your own local policies and not how you push them from your
server onto your workstations):

1. Load gpedit.msc (group policy editor, not available in Home Edition).
2. In the tree node list, go to:
User Configuration -> Admin Templates -> System
3. In the right pane, look for:
Custom user interface
4. Double-click (or right-click and select Properties) on that setting.
5. "Not configured" (default) or "Disabled" which means the GUI defined
by the above Shell registry key/s is used.
6. "Enabled" lets you specify an alternative shell.

For those using the alternative Win8 shells, is/are this registry key/s
still pointing at explorer.exe or at the new (replacement) shell?
What's the setting for the "Custom user interface" policy? My guess is
that they are still employing the old method of modifying the registry
to have Windows load a different GUI app.

A problem in the past is that upgrading Windows meant its installer
replaced these registry keys so you were back to Windows Explorer as the
desktop manager. The upgrade would replace those registry keys. If
you're in a corporate environment, policies might enforce which Windows
shell you use plus you're probably not allowed to change software setup
on their property. Oops, Start8 isn't usable at $5 for business use
(you have to buy a different license) so policy override would only
apply to Classic Shell and other shell replacements.

[Ken Blake[_4_]]

On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 13:04:03 -0500, "SC Tom" > wrote:

>
>
> "Ken Blake" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 09:19:24 -0600, philo > wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/27/2012 08:35 AM, BillW50 wrote:
> >> > In ,
> >> > Evgenii Sputnik typed:
> >> >> Hello Windows8users!
> >> >>
> >> >> I recently installed Windows 8, found it useless.
> >> >> And removed.
> >> >>
> >> >> But then I heard of Start8 for Windows8.
> >> >>
> >> >> I installed it.... and found Windows 8 works!
> >> >> (Exactly like Windows 7 worked but even faster!)
> >> >>
> >> >> Google "Start8" or follow my link
> >> >> http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/, newsgrouper!
> >> >>
> >> >> Start8 gets back normal Windows 7 on Windows 8.
> >> >>
> >> >> NEW KERNEL - CLASSICAL INTERFACE! MUST HAVE FOR EVERYONE!
> >> >>
> >> >> (Unless you are fan of Windows 8 interface....)
> >> >
> >> > Yes many people do. Also others like Classic Shell, Aston Shell, etc.
> >> > are also used. Especially among those that doesn't know how to work the
> >> > Start Screen yet. Myself, some machines I do and some machines I don't.
> >> > ;-)
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm sure "Start8" is good, but I'd probably use one of the free
> >> alternatives
> >
> >
> > Classic Shell, one of the free alternatives, is also good. But Start8
> > is even better. And for only $4.99...
> >
> I like this freebie:
> <http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/157302-windows-7-explorer-for-windows-8/>
>
> Been using it since day 3 or so :-)


Yes, but Explorer is a different thing from the task bar, which is
what we were talking about.

--
Ken Blake

[Ken Blake[_4_]]

On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 13:30:58 -0500, Nil
> wrote:

> On 27 Dec 2012, Ken Blake > wrote in
> alt.comp.os.windows-8:
>
> > Classic Shell, one of the free alternatives, is also good. But
> > Start8 is even better. And for only $4.99...
>
> What do you like better about it?


It's been long enough that I don't remember all the differences, but
in general Start8's task bar and Start orb menu is much closer to
Windows 7's than Classic Shell's is.




--
Ken Blake

[BillW50]

In ,
VanguardLH typed:
> "Ken Blake" wrote:
>
>> Classic Shell, one of the free alternatives, is also good. But Start8
>> is even better. And for only $4.99...
>
> Better how? Besides just putzing with the Start menu and skipping
> directly to the desktop, Classic Shell includes a Classic Explorer
> plug-in that eliminates some of the gimmickry and replaces lost
> functionality in Windows Explorer. They also have their Classic IE9
> plug-in. It looks like Stardock is using Classic Shell as the base
> against which to measure their product. When Classic Shell had a Win7
> start menu skin, Stardock had to catch up to add it; however, Start8's
> implementation is a bit better as Classic Shell doesn't permit app
> pinning (yet if that were really a highly popular and desired feature
> and since Classic Shell is open source then if lots of users wanted
> pinning then the feature could be added - so it looks like pinning
> isn't really that important or prevalent). While Classic Shell was
> available for Vista & 7, Start8 is the new boy and only available for
> Win8 hence the "8" in its product name. Classic Shell has had 3 years
> to mature and it encompasses more Windows versions than just Windows
> 8. If you have a mix of Windows platforms, Classic Shell lets you have
> that same GUI on all of them. Not Start8 (all of 5 months old) which
> will puke with a "minimum system requirements were not met" error if
> you attempt installation on a pre-Win8 host. System requirements:
>
> Classic Shell:
> Windows Vista
> Windows 7
> Windows 8
> Windows Server 2008
> Windows Server 2008 R2
> Windows Server 2012
> Start8:
> Windows 8
> Windows Server 2012
>
> I've read where users ran into flaky problems with Start8. It is,
> after all, the new boy on the block. Users could run Notepad from the
> Recent list in the Start menu but the history shortcut to Word locked
> up that app. Users have also complained about the activation process
> which requires online (Internet) access as it sometimes doesn't work.
> It is not just going online to validate but also sending them a
> machine SID, computer name, IP, and other info specific to your host.
> In other words, they've resorted to Microsoft's scheme of generating a
> platform ID to validate a license for activation on one host. If you
> read the EULA for Start8, it says the license cannot be used on more
> than one computer. If you have N hosts where you want an alternative
> desktop manager, you'll have to *buy* N licenses (at $5) to get the
> same GUI on each of your N hosts. With Classic Shell, you can install
> it on as many hosts as you want. Start8 is for personal-use
> (non-business use) only. Classic Shell is distributed under the
> MIT/X11 license so it can be used on any number of hosts regardless if
> for personal or business use.
>
> So, after buying 1 license that you get to use on only 1 computer,
> where it ONLY works on Windows 8 obviating the ability to have a
> common GUI across different versions of Windows, having to divulge a
> valid e-mail address to get their download link (which is bogus - see
> below), and having to perform online activation (to provide a platform
> ID to track the license) so you can continue use after 30 days, just
> how is Start8 "better"? Yes, Start8 can display both Metro (Windows
> store) apps along with desktop apps but does that one dubious feature
> (since we're discussing how NOT to show the Metro UI) really make
> Start8 better than Classic Shell?
>
> It looks like Start8 ($5) is Stardock's means to lure those users to
> their Object Desktop ($50). Are there ANY ads, promos, or upgrades
> mentioned anywhere in an installation of Start8 or during its
> installation? To get Start8 has them harvest a valid e-mail address
> from you; however, it is a bogus requirement because their e-mail
> sends you to CNet
> (http://download.cnet.com/Start8/3000-2072_4-75732532.html).
> I suggest using a temporary or disposable account or use an alias that
> self-terminates or you can kill/disable/delete.
>
> Download page (also compares features of Start8 and Object Desktop):
> http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/download.asp
>
> Replacing the Windows shell is nothing new. That ability has been
> available for a long time (I believe since Windows 3.1). It's just
> getting more press now because of all the discontent voiced by desktop
> users with Microsoft's choice of overlaying a mobile-centric GUI onto
> a desktop installation. There was noise about the GUI changes in Vista
> from long-time XP users. There was noise about XP for the GUI changes
> from 2000, and so on. Microsoft has used the ploy of changing the GUI
> to deliberately mislead users into believing the next version was a
> major change to convince users to buy. It was new because, um, it was
> different and being different means a software author can list those
> changes to prod new sales. New doesn't mean better. New often just
> means different. If Microsoft had used the same GUI as XP in all
> successive versions of Windows, there would be nothing to spur users
> into buying Vista (which had poor sales, anyway) or 7 or 8. Yes, there
> were feature changes and few improvements (along with additional
> confusion due to the GUI change) but users would have already acquired
> 3rd party software to accomplish those same changes by the time the
> next Windows version emerged. The major technological changes in each
> version don't have enough draw to pull in significant sales in the
> consumer market since the existing version already in use is
> satisfying those users' needs. Shorter boot time by modifying
> hibernation to include saving the state of core OS processes to disk
> instead of restarting them isn't going to induce users to pay for the
> OS upgrade. A shortening of 5-10 seconds in boot time which is
> insignificant compared to the entire boot time (post, load Windows,
> load all startup programs) will not effect huge sales. Not all users
> want to buy another hardware platform to keep up with the ever
> increasing hardware requirements with each subsequent version of
> Windows so you need to provide some other oomph factor, even if bogus
> or trivial, as an impetus for users to change. Users would prefer to
> spend their money on faster, bigger, or more hardware than on the
> behind-the-scenes technical improvements in a newer OS version.
> Slapping on a new GUI is the best marketing trick to convince
> consumers that something is new and that they must have because, gee,
> using an old staid but stable and well-known GUI just ain't cool.
>
> In the long past, the default shell was explorer.exe (Windows
> Explorer).
> You could change the shell by:
>
> 1. Load regedit.exe.
> 2. To replace the graphical user interface (GUI):
> a) For all users, go to:
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows
> NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon a) For just one user, go to:
> HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows
> NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon and under there add a data item of
> string type named Shell.
> 3. Change the Shell data item:
> from: explorer.exe
> to : the path to the executable file for the replacement shell
> 4. Log out and back in.
>
> Another scheme for replacing the desktop manager is using policies.
> This is mostly used in corporate environments to force all
> workstations to use the same GUI as they have no interest in wasting
> the resources of their IT or helpdesk staff to support a non-standard
> shell. To change the windows shell via per-user policies (this is
> from the viewpoint of changing your own local policies and not how you
> push them from your server onto your workstations):
>
> 1. Load gpedit.msc (group policy editor, not available in Home
> Edition).
> 2. In the tree node list, go to:
> User Configuration -> Admin Templates -> System
> 3. In the right pane, look for:
> Custom user interface
> 4. Double-click (or right-click and select Properties) on that
> setting.
> 5. "Not configured" (default) or "Disabled" which means the GUI
> defined
> by the above Shell registry key/s is used.
> 6. "Enabled" lets you specify an alternative shell.
>
> For those using the alternative Win8 shells, is/are this registry
> key/s still pointing at explorer.exe or at the new (replacement)
> shell? What's the setting for the "Custom user interface" policy? My
> guess is that they are still employing the old method of modifying the
> registry to have Windows load a different GUI app.
>
> A problem in the past is that upgrading Windows meant its installer
> replaced these registry keys so you were back to Windows Explorer as
> the desktop manager. The upgrade would replace those registry keys. If
> you're in a corporate environment, policies might enforce which
> Windows shell you use plus you're probably not allowed to change
> software setup on their property. Oops, Start8 isn't usable at $5 for
> business use (you have to buy a different license) so policy override
> would only apply to Classic Shell and other shell replacements.

Wow! I am super impressed! Super job! ;-)

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2

[philo [_4_]]

On 12/27/2012 04:28 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

<Long post , so I've snipped>
rdock.com/products/start8/download.asp
>
> Replacing the Windows shell is nothing new. That ability has been
> available for a long time (I believe since Windows 3.1).

There was an after-market shell called Calmira which gave win3x
the win9x gui

X
>
> For those using the alternative Win8 shells, is/are this registry key/s
> still pointing at explorer.exe or at the new (replacement) shell?
> What's the setting for the "Custom user interface" policy? My guess is
> that they are still employing the old method of modifying the registry
> to have Windows load a different GUI app.


I tried developer version of Win8 and there was *simple* registry hack
to get rid of Metro. I was told by the users of Win8 that the registry
hack has been eliminated for the final version...so a 3rd party utility
is needed.
>
> A problem in the past is that upgrading Windows meant its installer
> replaced these registry keys so you were back to Windows Explorer as the
> desktop manager. The upgrade would replace those registry keys. If
> you're in a corporate environment, policies might enforce which Windows
> shell you use plus you're probably not allowed to change software setup
> on their property. Oops, Start8 isn't usable at $5 for business use
> (you have to buy a different license) so policy override would only
> apply to Classic Shell and other shell replacements.
>


--
https://www.createspace.com/3707686

[BillW50]

In ,
philo typed:
> On 12/27/2012 04:28 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> There was an after-market shell called Calmira which gave win3x
> the win9x gui

Wow really? Here I used Command.com as the shell way back then. I never
heard of Calmira. That sounds really nice. I wish I had known this. :-(

> I tried developer version of Win8 and there was *simple* registry hack
> to get rid of Metro. I was told by the users of Win8 that the registry
> hack has been eliminated for the final version...so a 3rd party
> utility is needed.

The final version got rid of a lot of things. Even gadgets are no more
without hacks copied from preview versions. Although booting to the
desktop doesn't bother me much since I rarely boot (I use Standby and
Hibernation mostly which goes where you left it last -- the desktop of
course). Although when I do boot, going straight to the desktop isn't
all that useful. As Windows still needs more time to load all of the
background tasks and such. So at the Start Screen you really can't do
much until the hard drive stops reading like crazy. Or you could be
staring at the desktop, either or what difference does it make?

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2

[SC Tom[_3_]]

"Ken Blake" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 13:04:03 -0500, "SC Tom" > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "Ken Blake" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 09:19:24 -0600, philo > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 12/27/2012 08:35 AM, BillW50 wrote:
>> >> > In ,
>> >> > Evgenii Sputnik typed:
>> >> >> Hello Windows8users!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I recently installed Windows 8, found it useless.
>> >> >> And removed.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> But then I heard of Start8 for Windows8.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I installed it.... and found Windows 8 works!
>> >> >> (Exactly like Windows 7 worked but even faster!)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Google "Start8" or follow my link
>> >> >> http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/, newsgrouper!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Start8 gets back normal Windows 7 on Windows 8.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> NEW KERNEL - CLASSICAL INTERFACE! MUST HAVE FOR EVERYONE!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> (Unless you are fan of Windows 8 interface....)
>> >> >
>> >> > Yes many people do. Also others like Classic Shell, Aston Shell,
>> >> > etc.
>> >> > are also used. Especially among those that doesn't know how to work
>> >> > the
>> >> > Start Screen yet. Myself, some machines I do and some machines I
>> >> > don't.
>> >> > ;-)
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I'm sure "Start8" is good, but I'd probably use one of the free
>> >> alternatives
>> >
>> >
>> > Classic Shell, one of the free alternatives, is also good. But Start8
>> > is even better. And for only $4.99...
>> >
>> I like this freebie:
>> <http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/157302-windows-7-explorer-for-windows-8/>
>>
>> Been using it since day 3 or so :-)
>
>
> Yes, but Explorer is a different thing from the task bar, which is
> what we were talking about.
>
But it adds the Start menu and button to the task bar, but with a more
similar interface than Classic Shell or Start8 (and it's free).
--
SC Tom

[VanguardLH[_2_]]

"philo" wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> Replacing the Windows shell is nothing new. That ability has been
>> available for a long time (I believe since Windows 3.1).
>
> There was an after-market shell called Calmira which gave win3x
> the win9x gui

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calmira

That's the one that I remember (after you jogged my memory) for Win3.1
that shows a Win95 GUI. The registry was first introduced back in
Windows 3.1 but I don't have an old Windows 3.1 instance to check if its
registry had that Shell registry entry to know that is how Calmira did
the shell takeover.

A partial listing of some shell replacements:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_shell_replacement

> I tried developer version of Win8 and there was *simple* registry hack
> to get rid of Metro. I was told by the users of Win8 that the registry
> hack has been eliminated for the final version...so a 3rd party utility
> is needed.

I think that registry entry was to turn off the Metro UI, not to replace
the Windows shell. Windows Explorer (explorer.exe) was still the
Windows shell and the config setting in the registry told Windows
Explorer not to present that feature of its shell. From a Google
search, the means to disable the Metro UI (before Microsoft disabled it
by making explorer.exe ignore it) was:

- Go to:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curre ntVersion\Explorer
- Modify the following data item:
RPEnabled
from: 1
to: 0

I think another method was to rename the shsxs.dll file and you got back
the Win7 GUI. Of course, it is possible a later update from Microsoft
replaces this file with a new version so the file returns and so does
the Metro UI. Someday a vulnerability will probably be discovered
inside of shsxs.dll and they'll have to replace it.

Better is to tell Windows that you've replaced its entire desktop
manager with something else. Of course, that means more than just
showing a Start menu so I'm not sure any of these start menu programs
are yet that capable. That's why I'm wondering if they overwrite the
Shell registry entry to claim they are the Windows shell or if they use
some startup entry or a service to effect their changes.

[VanguardLH[_2_]]

"BillW50" wrote:

> philo typed:
>
>> There was an after-market shell called Calmira which gave win3x
>> the win9x gui
>
> Wow really? Here I used Command.com as the shell way back then. I never
> heard of Calmira. That sounds really nice. I wish I had known this. :-(

That had you open a console window *inside* of Windows, not exit from
Windows to open a base console window within which the command-line
interpreter got loaded as specified in config.sys (or the default one if
not specified). Inside of Windows, running command.com opened a new
window, the console (to handle stdin, stdout, and stderr), and loaded
the command-line interpreter. That is NOT the same as replacing the
entire desktop manager (aka Windows shell) that you see inside of
Windows as its desktop.

[BillW50]

In ,
VanguardLH typed:
> "BillW50" wrote:
>
>> philo typed:
>>
>>> There was an after-market shell called Calmira which gave win3x
>>> the win9x gui
>>
>> Wow really? Here I used Command.com as the shell way back then. I
>> never heard of Calmira. That sounds really nice. I wish I had known
>> this. :-(
>
> That had you open a console window *inside* of Windows, not exit from
> Windows to open a base console window within which the command-line
> interpreter got loaded as specified in config.sys (or the default one
> if not specified). Inside of Windows, running command.com opened a
> new window, the console (to handle stdin, stdout, and stderr), and
> loaded the command-line interpreter. That is NOT the same as
> replacing the entire desktop manager (aka Windows shell) that you see
> inside of Windows as its desktop.

Naw... you are talking about something else. I am talking about
replacing the shell in the registry at:

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon

My key currently says on most of my machines:

Shell=C:\Program Files\Aston2\Aston2.exe\

Although in Windows 3.1 had the shell loaded from system.ini (or was it
win.ini?).

But in the past, you could replace explorer.exe with command.com (later
with cmd.exe). And it booted up looking just like DOS. And no startup
programs loads, no taskbar, no start button, etc. It really works, you
should try it someday. I used to plug in fileman or progman for a shell
sometimes too. ;-)

Also interesting is Microsoft created a free virtual desktop called
"Desktops". What makes this interesting is that I can have more than one
shell at a time. Here I can have one desktop running Aston Shell and the
other uses Explorer Shell (normal Windows Desktop). And I can switch
between the two instantly. ;-)

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/cc817881.aspx

I tried Desktops v1 under Windows 8 and I couldn't get it to work.
Although I see they now have Desktops v2 and maybe this one will work
under Windows 8. I also had limited success getting Aston Shell to work
under Windows 8. There is not a problem with earlier versions of Windows
and Aston Shell.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2

[Damaeus]

In news:alt.comp.os.windows-8, philo+AKA- > posted on Thu,
27 Dec 2012 16:59:14 -0600 the following:

> There was an after-market shell called Calmira which gave win3x
> the win9x gui

I used PlugIn in Windows 3.11. I just loved that. It made the interface
a lot more useful and efficient, but it didn't really change the overall
look.

Damaeus

[Nil[_2_]]

On 28 Dec 2012, Damaeus > wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

> I used PlugIn in Windows 3.11. I just loved that. It made the
> interface a lot more useful and efficient, but it didn't really
> change the overall look.

I remember that! PlugIn in Windows was a very configurable program
launcher that included very capable macro abilities. I registered the
shareware and stuck with it a very long time.

[Damaeus]

In news:alt.comp.os.windows-8, Nil > posted
on Fri, 28 Dec 2012 17:32:24 -0500 the following:

> On 28 Dec 2012, Damaeus > wrote in
> alt.comp.os.windows-8:
>
> > I used PlugIn in Windows 3.11. I just loved that. It made the
> > interface a lot more useful and efficient, but it didn't really
> > change the overall look.
>
> I remember that! PlugIn in Windows was a very configurable program
> launcher that included very capable macro abilities. I registered the
> shareware and stuck with it a very long time.

Yes, if I remember correctly, you could configure a right-click context
menu that could be used by clicking on the desktop, and you could have
text "shortcuts" to your programs. It essentially gave you something sort
of like a Start Menu in Program Manager, but through the context menu.

I think when Windows95 came out, so much of what PlugIn had would have
been redundant in Win95, so I didn't really have much of a need for it.

I remember reading the story about the guy who wrote PlugIn. I think he
was just some guy at his computer who knew how to write programs, and
PlugIn was so successful that he made something like $280,000 off of it in
one year, but it's been like 15 years since I read about him. :)

I helped contribute to that. My dad liked it, too, and he registered a
copy.

[BillW50]

In ,
Ken Blake typed:
> Yes, but Explorer is a different thing from the task bar, which is
> what we were talking about.

Stock Windows runs explorer.exe as the shell. You can change this if you
like through the registry. And explorer.exe controls the desktop,
taskbar, startup programs, backgrounds, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_shell

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2

[jimrx4]

I don't know why people would by Windows-8 and then do everything they can
to make it like Windows-7! I bought 8 and used it for close to a month,
don't think it's any better than Win-ME and have gone back to Win-7. MS has
to do better than this I think.

"Evgenii Sputnik" wrote in message
...

Hello Windows8users!

I recently installed Windows 8, found it useless.
And removed.

But then I heard of Start8 for Windows8.

I installed it.... and found Windows 8 works!
(Exactly like Windows 7 worked but even faster!)

Google "Start8" or follow my link
http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/, newsgrouper!

Start8 gets back normal Windows 7 on Windows 8.

NEW KERNEL - CLASSICAL INTERFACE! MUST HAVE FOR EVERYONE!

(Unless you are fan of Windows 8 interface....)

--
Evgenii Sputnik +79134596180
We should create misc.phone.mobile.android newsgroup....

[jimrx4]

Ought to do a spell check!!

"jimrx4" wrote in message ...

I don't know why people would by Windows-8 and then do everything they can
to make it like Windows-7! I bought 8 and used it for close to a month,
don't think it's any better than Win-ME and have gone back to Win-7. MS has
to do better than this I think.

"Evgenii Sputnik" wrote in message
...

Hello Windows8users!

I recently installed Windows 8, found it useless.
And removed.

But then I heard of Start8 for Windows8.

I installed it.... and found Windows 8 works!
(Exactly like Windows 7 worked but even faster!)

Google "Start8" or follow my link
http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/, newsgrouper!

Start8 gets back normal Windows 7 on Windows 8.

NEW KERNEL - CLASSICAL INTERFACE! MUST HAVE FOR EVERYONE!

(Unless you are fan of Windows 8 interface....)

--
Evgenii Sputnik +79134596180
We should create misc.phone.mobile.android newsgroup....

[BillW50]

On 12/29/2012 3:17 PM, jimrx4 wrote:
> I don't know why people would by Windows-8 and then do everything they
> can to make it like Windows-7! I bought 8 and used it for close to a
> month, don't think it's any better than Win-ME and have gone back to
> Win-7. MS has to do better than this I think.

There are people that can't let go of their Commodores, Apple II's,
CP/M's, and DOS machines too. And your point being? And if Windows 8
doesn't turn into another ME, can we sue your butt for being so wrong?
If not, then what is your point?

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8

[Walt[_2_]]

On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 16:27:35 -0600, BillW50 > wrote:

>On 12/29/2012 3:17 PM, jimrx4 wrote:
>> I don't know why people would by Windows-8 and then do everything they
>> can to make it like Windows-7! I bought 8 and used it for close to a
>> month, don't think it's any better than Win-ME and have gone back to
>> Win-7. MS has to do better than this I think.
>
>There are people that can't let go of their Commodores, Apple II's,
>CP/M's, and DOS machines too. And your point being? And if Windows 8
>doesn't turn into another ME, can we sue your butt for being so wrong?
>If not, then what is your point?

The plain fact is, that if you buy a new Windows computer off the
shelf you don't have a choice. WalMart, BestBuy, Costco all the same.
Cosco took their Win7 computers off the shelf before they even got the
new Win8s to replace them. At least our local Cosco did. I wonder if
there was a buy back program? Ever since Win 8 came out the only place
you can find a new computer without Win 8 is to go the manufacturer
and pay an extra $200 to get Windows 7. That's my experience. I
finally broke down and bought one with Win8 and saved myself $200.

[BillW50]

On 12/29/2012 4:53 PM, Walt wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 16:27:35 -0600, > wrote:
>
>> On 12/29/2012 3:17 PM, jimrx4 wrote:
>>> I don't know why people would by Windows-8 and then do everything they
>>> can to make it like Windows-7! I bought 8 and used it for close to a
>>> month, don't think it's any better than Win-ME and have gone back to
>>> Win-7. MS has to do better than this I think.
>>
>> There are people that can't let go of their Commodores, Apple II's,
>> CP/M's, and DOS machines too. And your point being? And if Windows 8
>> doesn't turn into another ME, can we sue your butt for being so wrong?
>> If not, then what is your point?
>
> The plain fact is, that if you buy a new Windows computer off the
> shelf you don't have a choice. WalMart, BestBuy, Costco all the same.
> Cosco took their Win7 computers off the shelf before they even got the
> new Win8s to replace them. At least our local Cosco did. I wonder if
> there was a buy back program? Ever since Win 8 came out the only place
> you can find a new computer without Win 8 is to go the manufacturer
> and pay an extra $200 to get Windows 7. That's my experience. I
> finally broke down and bought one with Win8 and saved myself $200.

Both Windows 7 Pro and Windows 8 Pro has downgrade options. So if you
don't want the newer OS, you can always go back.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8

[Alias[_43_]]

On 12/29/2012 11:27 PM, BillW50 wrote:
> And if Windows 8 doesn't turn into another ME, can we sue your butt for
> being so wrong?

It will go the same way as Me and Vista: nowhere. It's not even
outselling what Vista did. It won't "turn into" anything. It is what it
is. Hopefully, Windows 9, or whatever they call it, will show a lesson
has been learned once again.

--
Alias