Does my UPS work?

[micky[_2_]]

I have 2 UPSes, both used, and one was marked Working when I bought it
for $7, and the other I might have gotten for free. I can't remember.

Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.

The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
issue

APC XS 900 .

Does there have to be a load for the Online light to go on? It's off.

A 60 watt lightbulb is as good a load as any, right?

OTOH, the Building Wiring Fault light is on, probably because somewhere
I lost the ground connection, but It's only plugged in for testing. Do
I have to plug it in somewhere with a ground to get the Online light to
go on?

[rbowman]

On 08/21/2015 07:09 AM, micky wrote:
> Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
> impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
> battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
> should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.

Sometimes the switchover or charging circuitry fails. The last time I
replaced my home UPS the battery was good but it wouldn't switch over.
We have a lot of UPS's at work and the failure rate is fairly high. That
goes for APC or no-name units.

> The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
> the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
> issue

Plug a radio into one of the protect outlets. Pull the plug on the UPS.
Is the radio still functioning? The 60w bulb is also a good idea since
that will allow you to see how long the battery will maintain the
output. One failure mode I've seen several times is on switchover the
UPS will effectively short the output crashing the computer while one
just plugged into the wall survives the very brief flicker fine.

As far as the control connection to the computer, good luck. Find the
appropriate software for the machine and your OS like PowerChute.

[Ralph Mowery]

"micky" > wrote in message
...
> Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
> impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
> battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
> should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.
>

The UPS may be like some of the battery powered drills. You can buy a new
drill with two batteries for what just one or two of the batteries cost.

I have not looked at the cost to make the batteries, but there must be a big
mark up on them when they sell for over $ 50 each,but you can get two, a
charger and new drill for the price of less than two seperate batteries.

Where I worked we had a lot of small motors (around 1/2 HP) that had a gear
box on them. We could get the motor and gear box cheaper than just the
motor.

[Unquestionably Confused]

On 8/21/2015 8:50 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> "micky" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
>> impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
>> battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
>> should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.
>>
>
> The UPS may be like some of the battery powered drills. You can buy a new
> drill with two batteries for what just one or two of the batteries cost.
>
> I have not looked at the cost to make the batteries, but there must be a big
> mark up on them when they sell for over $ 50 each,but you can get two, a
> charger and new drill for the price of less than two seperate batteries.
>
> Where I worked we had a lot of small motors (around 1/2 HP) that had a gear
> box on them. We could get the motor and gear box cheaper than just the
> motor.





Most UPS replacement batteries are more or less standard. APC favors
12v 7.5amp for most of their low end residential/commercial UPS units.

They take either a single battery or a pair and I have no problem
picking up batteries through various internet sites, Ebay or Amazon.com
for WAY less than half the price of APC replacement batteries. I get
~3yrs service out of those "compatible" batteries. Who cares if they
may not (and I have no evidence of this) last as long as a "genuine" APC
replacement? Even if they last half as long, I'm still money ahead.

[Unquestionably Confused]

On 8/21/2015 8:50 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> "micky" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
>> impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
>> battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
>> should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.
>>
>
> The UPS may be like some of the battery powered drills. You can buy a new
> drill with two batteries for what just one or two of the batteries cost.
>
> I have not looked at the cost to make the batteries, but there must be a big
> mark up on them when they sell for over $ 50 each,but you can get two, a
> charger and new drill for the price of less than two seperate batteries.
>
> Where I worked we had a lot of small motors (around 1/2 HP) that had a gear
> box on them. We could get the motor and gear box cheaper than just the
> motor.





Most UPS replacement batteries are more or less standard. APC favors
12v 7.5amp for most of their low end residential/commercial UPS units.

They take either a single battery or a pair and I have no problem
picking up batteries through various internet sites, Ebay or Amazon.com
for WAY less than half the price of APC replacement batteries. I get
~3yrs service out of those "compatible" batteries. Who cares if they
may not (and I have no evidence of this) last as long as a "genuine" APC
replacement? Even if they last half as long, I'm still money ahead.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 8/21/2015 10:15 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:

>
> Most UPS replacement batteries are more or less standard. APC favors
> 12v 7.5amp for most of their low end residential/commercial UPS units.
>
> They take either a single battery or a pair and I have no problem
> picking up batteries through various internet sites, Ebay or Amazon.com
> for WAY less than half the price of APC replacement batteries. I get
> ~3yrs service out of those "compatible" batteries. Who cares if they
> may not (and I have no evidence of this) last as long as a "genuine" APC
> replacement? Even if they last half as long, I'm still money ahead.
>

I just replaced the batteries in one unit. If you buy the genuine
battery from APC is comes with the wiring harness attached and you pull
out the two batteries as a unit and slide the new one in. Cost is $110.

I found a place that sells replacements. I had to take the harness off
(four spade connections) and put it on the new batteries. I also taped
the two together to be a solid unit too. Cost was $37. plus half a
penny for tape and five minutes to do the connections.

This is where I bought, but there are many other sources.
www.batterysharks.com/

[Art Todesco]

On 8/21/2015 9:09 AM, micky wrote:
> I have 2 UPSes, both used, and one was marked Working when I bought it
> for $7, and the other I might have gotten for free. I can't remember.
>
> Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
> impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
> battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
> should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.
>
> The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
> the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
> issue
>
> APC XS 900 .
>
> Does there have to be a load for the Online light to go on? It's off.
>
> A 60 watt lightbulb is as good a load as any, right?
>
> OTOH, the Building Wiring Fault light is on, probably because somewhere
> I lost the ground connection, but It's only plugged in for testing. Do
> I have to plug it in somewhere with a ground to get the Online light to
> go on?
>
>
Apparently, the batteries are ok in the one unit. Try putting the
'good' batteries into the other unit so see if it works, before ordering
new ones. As others have said, you can get good batteries for cheap on
the internet. I've replace mine at least 3 or 4 times over the last 15
or so years and it's still going. When I was 1st gifted with this old
AT&T UPS, it wouldn't even pass line current to the output. I borrowed
a bunch of 6 volt batteries and connected 4 in series ... this UPS
actually uses 24 volts instead of the usual 12 volts. Once the new
batteries were connected, it started passing line voltage through.
Apparently, on this unit, when the batteries are dead, it tells you by
not working at all. I've kept this unit because it is built like a tank
inside. It has big hefty line filtering also.

[Paul]

micky wrote:
> I have 2 UPSes, both used, and one was marked Working when I bought it
> for $7, and the other I might have gotten for free. I can't remember.
>
> Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
> impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
> battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
> should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.
>
> The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
> the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
> issue
>
> APC XS 900 .
>
> Does there have to be a load for the Online light to go on? It's off.
>
> A 60 watt lightbulb is as good a load as any, right?
>
> OTOH, the Building Wiring Fault light is on, probably because somewhere
> I lost the ground connection, but It's only plugged in for testing. Do
> I have to plug it in somewhere with a ground to get the Online light to
> go on?
>
>

The XS900 is a "loser".

Put it back on the curb.

Check the reviews on Amazon. This is how
I judge them.

http://www.amazon.com/APC-900VA-Backup-UPS-XS900-BX900/dp/B000BH3DB0#customerReviews

An internal fan with no vent ?
I hope not. Maybe the thing is
ferroresonant and the noise is the
transformer.

The APC site claims to be "down for maintenance" at the
moment, or I'd have a look at the user manual. It could
be an AVR unit for example (automatic voltage regulator)
and "line interactive". That means, it is buggering
with the power at all times, one way or another.

*******

And yes, replacing batteries makes perfect sense, on the
mid-range ones. I paid $250 for my UPS when new, the
battery lasted *ten years*, and a new battery cost $60.
The price on batteries has come down slightly over
the years, presumably since all the batteries are made
in China. And if you take the rate of inflation into
account, the price has come down.

One secret to battery life, you can do nothing about.
But you can control the "level of discharge". I'm always
careful, if I'm in the room, to shut down the computer
loads then switch off the ATX supply, to spare the battery
when the lights go out. The shallower the discharge, the
longer they last. Don't rely on the low voltage cutoff on
the UPS itself, to "protect" the battery. The battery life
can last longer, if you take care of it.

I don't consider the UPS to be an "alternate power source",
it's merely a way to ride out one-second outages, when the
utility switches over stuff. I have one computer cabled to
the automatic shutdown feature, and Windows happens to have
the right driver for that APC unit, already in Windows. For
the second computer connected to it, I shut down that
computer manually.

*******

The low end of the UPS market, the failure rate out of the
box is 10%. And the Amazon description for the XS900,
shows it just doesn't last with time.

There are different kinds of UPS architectures.
There are SPS (standby power supply). There
are AVR (automatic voltage regulation). There
are more than five different types. The SPS remains
cool to the touch, because the inverter doesn't
run when AC power is available. The battery charges
to a constant voltage (and you can stick your meter
on the battery terminals after a 24 hour charge
period and verify the terminal voltage is
correct). That's one check I could do after installing
the new battery.

The UPS has the ability to do a load test. It places
a known load on the battery for a few seconds, and checks
the resulting terminal voltage. The output impedance of
the battery is considered a health indicator. A high
impedance battery, drops to a low voltage when loaded.
A UPS which "beeps" once every 24 hours, has just done
the short load test, and found the terminal voltage
to be wanting.

And a 60W light bulb makes a fine load. It is resistive.
The load is relatively well controlled (draws 120W when
cold, has a "surge" due to the cold resistance), but
eventually settles down to 60W. If the output voltage
of the UPS is not correct (makes 200V rather than 113V),
then the color of the filament when lit gives a quick
indication of whether the output voltage is correct or
not. I can easily spot when my power here drops to 100V
at the mast, just by the color of the remaining incandescent
bulbs I use. LED bulbs on the other hand, are regulated,
and have no characteristic useful for analyzing what
the utility is doing to you.

*******

For your next curbside UPS, check the reviews and
see if the unit stinks or not. If a lot of users
complain of weird symptoms within the first year
or two, chances are fixing one up is not a wise
use of time or money.

Have fun,
Paul

[micky[_2_]]

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:02:08
-0400, Art Todesco > wrote:

>On 8/21/2015 9:09 AM, micky wrote:
>> I have 2 UPSes, both used, and one was marked Working when I bought it
>> for $7, and the other I might have gotten for free. I can't remember.
>>
>> Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
>> impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
>> battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
>> should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.
>>
>> The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
>> the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
>> issue
>>
>> APC XS 900 .
>>
>> Does there have to be a load for the Online light to go on? It's off.
>>
>> A 60 watt lightbulb is as good a load as any, right?
>>
>> OTOH, the Building Wiring Fault light is on, probably because somewhere
>> I lost the ground connection, but It's only plugged in for testing. Do
>> I have to plug it in somewhere with a ground to get the Online light to
>> go on?
>>
>>
>Apparently, the batteries are ok in the one unit. Try putting the
>'good' batteries into the other unit so see if it works, before ordering
>new ones. As others have said, you can get good batteries for cheap on
>the internet. I've replace mine at least 3 or 4 times over the last 15
>or so years and it's still going. When I was 1st gifted with this old
>AT&T UPS, it wouldn't even pass line current to the output. I borrowed
>a bunch of 6 volt batteries and connected 4 in series ... this UPS
>actually uses 24 volts instead of the usual 12 volts. Once the new
>batteries were connected, it started passing line voltage through.
>Apparently, on this unit, when the batteries are dead, it tells you by
>not working at all.

What a system!

The other answers were valuable and I'm going to reply to them later,
but this is the answer I was looking for.

Somehow I was suspicious that this could happen, so I'll see if it's
happening to me.

Somewhere I have some worn-out 12-volt batteries but since they're
buried, now is just the time to do what you say, because I'm going out
soon to buy 12 volt batteries for the other two (There's another small
one that I didn't mention.)

Now would also be the time to order by mail, since I need 2, maybe 3,
and I would save on shipping, but these things fit so tightly, and the
dimensions listed for the NP7-12, for example, one dimension was smaller
than my old battery but another was bigger than it and wouldnt' fit in
the UPS. Better to buy in person in this case. I'll take both
batteries and one UPS with me.

Even the dimensions given on the APC page for the specific UPS were like
that, one maximum dimension bigger than my battery, but one smaller.
Neither of which makes sense since my battery exactly fits the space. In
fact in two of the three cases, it's an APC battery (maybe the original
one?) Hard to believe they would get their own dimensions wrong.

> I've kept this unit because it is built like a tank
>inside. It has big hefty line filtering also.

[David W. Hodgins]

On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 10:15:32 -0400, Unquestionably Confused > wrote:

> Most UPS replacement batteries are more or less standard. APC favors
> 12v 7.5amp for most of their low end residential/commercial UPS units.

From the upsc command on my system ...
battery.type: PbAc
battery.voltage: 27.2
battery.voltage.nominal: 24.0
device.mfr: American Power Conversion
device.model: Back-UPS XS 1300G

I have no idea what to look for, when it's time to replace the battery.
Not sure where I put the manual, and am having trouble finding one
online.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

--
Change nomail.afraid.org to ody.ca to reply by email.
(nomail.afraid.org has been set up specifically for
use in usenet. Feel free to use it yourself.)

[micky[_2_]]

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 07:44:17
-0600, rbowman > wrote:

>On 08/21/2015 07:09 AM, micky wrote:
>> Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
>> impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
>> battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
>> should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.
>
>Sometimes the switchover or charging circuitry fails. The last time I
>replaced my home UPS the battery was good but it wouldn't switch over.
>We have a lot of UPS's at work and the failure rate is fairly high. That
>goes for APC or no-name units.
>
>> The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
>> the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
>> issue
>
>Plug a radio into one of the protect outlets. Pull the plug on the UPS.
>Is the radio still functioning? The 60w bulb is also a good idea since
>that will allow you to see how long the battery will maintain the
>output. One failure mode I've seen several times is on switchover the
>UPS will effectively short the output crashing the computer while one
>just plugged into the wall survives the very brief flicker fine.

Hmmm. I've actually got a third one for my DVDR, and its battery is old
and I've seen the power dip and if it's recording, it stops recording
but stays on, and then starts recording again asap. I recorded 30
minutes of news and it ended up in 7 pieces!! OTOH, if it's not
recording, it turns off and stays off.

**How could I have 7 power failures in 30 minutes. Well, I've got a
"portable" air conditioner, and it's plugged into the same receptacle
that the DVDR is. And every time it goes on, I hear a short beep. I
thought it was the AC but finally realized it was the UPS. Still when
I wasn't using the AC, and storms caused the power outage, it got
through some that of those actual outages, not just dips, and lasting 2
or 3 seconds, without losing its list of programs to record.

But last night I had the feeling that if the UPS were not there, the
dips in voltage would not have caused the recording mode to turn off.

So I just got back from buying a new battery. for this little one, and
another for the one I paid $7 for and was marked Working. It was a few
dollars more than mailorder, but I wanted the small one today, and I was
able to compare the dimensions of the new one with the old one adn they
matched. Some of the ones on the web had one dimension larger and
anoher smaller. I guess the dimensions on the web were wrong, but I
didn't want to buy mail order and find out that it didnt fit.

>As far as the control connection to the computer, good luck. Find the
>appropriate software for the machine and your OS like PowerChute.

[micky[_2_]]

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:14:44
-0400, Paul > wrote:

>micky wrote:
>> I have 2 UPSes, both used, and one was marked Working when I bought it
>> for $7, and the other I might have gotten for free. I can't remember.
>>
>> Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
>> impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
>> battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
>> should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.
>>
>> The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
>> the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
>> issue
>>
>> APC XS 900 .
>>
>> Does there have to be a load for the Online light to go on? It's off.
>>
>> A 60 watt lightbulb is as good a load as any, right?
>>
>> OTOH, the Building Wiring Fault light is on, probably because somewhere
>> I lost the ground connection, but It's only plugged in for testing. Do
>> I have to plug it in somewhere with a ground to get the Online light to
>> go on?
>>
>>
>
>The XS900 is a "loser".
>
>Put it back on the curb.
>
>Check the reviews on Amazon. This is how
>I judge them.
>
>http://www.amazon.com/APC-900VA-Backup-UPS-XS900-BX900/dp/B000BH3DB0#customerReviews

I didn't even think to do look at this, maybe because I own it already.

Wow. 2 stars out of 5, which I consider to be 1 star out of 4 since one
can't give something 0 stars.

I didnt' think APC would make anything that bad. Unless people have
unreasonable expectations because it's a famous brand. -- I haven't
read the reviews yet. Only 11 reviews.

That's the second lowest thing I've seen. The lowest was a battery
powered jumper box for cars, that Pepboys marked down from 50 to 30.
Since I'd been wanting one, I bought it and when I got home, I looked
it up like you did. I owned it but could return it. It was only 1.7
stars out of 5. But when I returned it, the clerk, and clerks often
don't give a darn, seemed surprised and told me they sell them and never
hear back, that is, people are satisfied. (Of course they are only used
when the car won't start, so maybe it's too late to return them then!)

I think Pep Boys marked them down because the rating was so low and they
couldnt' sell them at the regular price. It was part of a Grand
Reopening Sale (even though they were never closed) and they had other
things cheap but nothing I needed. Well they had the little red floor
jack 40 marked down to 20 or so, but I had already bought one and used
it for 5 days. Plus for pulling the broken fence post out of the
ground). Where was I?
>
>An internal fan with no vent ?
>I hope not.

That's what one of the reviews says. I'll take a look. I'd be glad to
put a hole in the case, but it sounds like it's too late for that. But
I''ll still do the check I told Art I would do.

>Maybe the thing is
>ferroresonant and the noise is the
>transformer.

Well mine's not humming..... because it won't do anything yet!!

>The APC site claims to be "down for maintenance" at the
>moment, or I'd have a look at the user manual. It could

Do I detect a note of suspicion, the quotes and all? ;-)

Anyhow I got the manual earlier today (been up since 5) and it's only
two pages long. I think it's funny that in an age where printers etc.
come with 200, 300 page manuals, they have a 2 page manual.

A longer one makes people think they're getting more for their money.
Especially when they could go on with situations like the one I asked
about, but they don't. .

>be an AVR unit for example (automatic voltage regulator)
>and "line interactive". That means, it is buggering
>with the power at all times, one way or another.
>
>*******
>
>And yes, replacing batteries makes perfect sense, on the

That's what I thought, but I'm susceptible to suggestion -- in many
areas and I've known this for a long time -- so when two of them
suggested what they did, I had doubts.

>mid-range ones. I paid $250 for my UPS when new, the
>battery lasted *ten years*, and a new battery cost $60.

Much better than spending 250, plus it's easier to go buy a battery than
to have to shop for another UPS, evaluate features and price and all
that.

>The price on batteries has come down slightly over
>the years, presumably since all the batteries are made
>in China. And if you take the rate of inflation into
>account, the price has come down.
>
>One secret to battery life, you can do nothing about.
>But you can control the "level of discharge". I'm always
>careful, if I'm in the room, to shut down the computer
>loads then switch off the ATX supply, to spare the battery
>when the lights go out. The shallower the discharge, the
>longer they last. Don't rely on the low voltage cutoff on
>the UPS itself, to "protect" the battery. The battery life
>can last longer, if you take care of it.
>
>I don't consider the UPS to be an "alternate power source",
>it's merely a way to ride out one-second outages, when the

Yes. And I don't know why people need a big one. I almost never have
more than one file that hasn't been saved, and that's the file I'm
typing in at the moment. Before I leave this window, I"ll save it.
So it takes 10 seconds to save the file, 30 seconds maybe to wait for
the power to come on if it usually does, and a couple minutes to
hibernate.

>utility switches over stuff. I have one computer cabled to
>the automatic shutdown feature, and Windows happens to have
>the right driver for that APC unit, already in Windows. For
>the second computer connected to it, I shut down that
>computer manually.
>
>*******
>
>The low end of the UPS market, the failure rate out of the
>box is 10%. And the Amazon description for the XS900,
>shows it just doesn't last with time.
>
>There are different kinds of UPS architectures.
>There are SPS (standby power supply). There
>are AVR (automatic voltage regulation). There
>are more than five different types. The SPS remains
>cool to the touch, because the inverter doesn't
>run when AC power is available. The battery charges
>to a constant voltage (and you can stick your meter
>on the battery terminals after a 24 hour charge
>period and verify the terminal voltage is
>correct). That's one check I could do after installing
>the new battery.
>
>The UPS has the ability to do a load test. It places
>a known load on the battery for a few seconds, and checks
>the resulting terminal voltage. The output impedance of
>the battery is considered a health indicator. A high
>impedance battery, drops to a low voltage when loaded.
>A UPS which "beeps" once every 24 hours, has just done
>the short load test, and found the terminal voltage
>to be wanting.
>
>And a 60W light bulb makes a fine load. It is resistive.
>The load is relatively well controlled (draws 120W when
>cold, has a "surge" due to the cold resistance), but
>eventually settles down to 60W. If the output voltage
>of the UPS is not correct (makes 200V rather than 113V),
>then the color of the filament when lit gives a quick
>indication of whether the output voltage is correct or
>not. I can easily spot when my power here drops to 100V
>at the mast, just by the color of the remaining incandescent
>bulbs I use. LED bulbs on the other hand, are regulated,
>and have no characteristic useful for analyzing what
>the utility is doing to you.

What do they do when the voltage goes down? Just go dark like digital
TV with a weak signal?
>
>*******
>
>For your next curbside UPS, check the reviews and
>see if the unit stinks or not. If a lot of users
>complain of weird symptoms within the first year
>or two, chances are fixing one up is not a wise
>use of time or money.
>
>Have fun,
> Paul

[micky[_2_]]

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:14:44
-0400, Paul > wrote:

>
>Check the reviews on Amazon. This is how
>I judge them.
>
>http://www.amazon.com/APC-900VA-Backup-UPS-XS900-BX900/dp/B000BH3DB0#customerReviews

BTW, I too t hink overall the reviews are worth reading and valuable but

a) it's well known t hat people who are dissatisfied are a lot more
likely to complain than those who are satisfied are to say so.

b) in this case one guy who gave it one star said "Battery replacement
on this is far too complicated for a consumer product". But it's
actually as simple as can be. Doesn't even require a screwdriver. Just
press on the plastic where the tabs are and the big door slides open,
pour out the battery and disconnect the two wires (which have female
spade connectors, on miine. The webpage shows a battery with one 3-wire
connector, maybe even easier.)

c) Another guy who gave it five stars said "Thing has worked fabulously
for 3 years and is still working great. Every now and again, I've
removed the battery, popped off the rubber stoppers, filled with
distilled water, dried, capped off the holes with rubber stoppers,
charged each battery using a car battery charger at 3 amps, reinstalled.
These batteries just don't quit running if you maintain them properly.
To bad APC doesn't put this in the manual." The owner of Battery
Warehouse reminded me that there is no water inside, but some kind of
jelly.. What a blowhard the reviewer is.

d) one study somewhere said that there are people who complain on
online reviews when they've never even bought or used the item. It said
their reviews tended to ramble about the general topic wihtout going
into specifics about the item. Not surprising. That's why Amazon
verifies if you've bought the product from them and labels those reviews
that way.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message >, David W. Hodgins
> writes:
>On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 10:15:32 -0400, Unquestionably Confused
> wrote:
>
>> Most UPS replacement batteries are more or less standard. APC favors
>> 12v 7.5amp for most of their low end residential/commercial UPS units.
>
>From the upsc command on my system ...
>battery.type: PbAc

I presume that means lead-acid. (Most of this sort of thing use "SLA" -
sealed lead-acid - which have a gel inside rather than liquid, which
means the batteries can be used any way up.)

>battery.voltage: 27.2
>battery.voltage.nominal: 24.0

(Sounds healthy!) I'd guess two 12-volt ones.

>device.mfr: American Power Conversion
>device.model: Back-UPS XS 1300G
>
>I have no idea what to look for, when it's time to replace the battery.
>Not sure where I put the manual, and am having trouble finding one
>online.

Can you figure out how to open it? If so, have a look: the batteries are
usually pretty obvious. They tend to be big grey (or occasionally black)
blocks, usually with spade terminals; if you're lucky, they'll have a
label on (or text moulded into the plastic), giving voltage and amp-hour
rating; maybe also model number.
>
>Regards, Dave Hodgins
>
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"On the whole, I'm in favour of the state getting out of people's lives, but I
would not have a problem with voting being made compulsory. But if you did
that, you'd have to have a box for 'None of the above'."
Jeremy Paxman, quoted in RT 2015/5/2-8

[Paul]

micky wrote:
> In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:14:44
> -0400, Paul > wrote:
>
>> micky wrote:
>>> I have 2 UPSes, both used, and one was marked Working when I bought it
>>> for $7, and the other I might have gotten for free. I can't remember.

There's a doc here, if you want to see
some of the UPS types.

https://web.archive.org/web/20090521041358/http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/SADE-5TNM3Y_R5_EN.pdf

One of the "regulating" types, would allow
the UPS to work on the same outlet as your
air conditioner, and the DVR wouldn't even
know what was happening.

Paul

[Unquestionably Confused]

On 8/21/2015 1:00 PM, David W. Hodgins wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 10:15:32 -0400, Unquestionably Confused
> > wrote:
>
>> Most UPS replacement batteries are more or less standard. APC favors
>> 12v 7.5amp for most of their low end residential/commercial UPS units.
>
> From the upsc command on my system ...
> battery.type: PbAc
> battery.voltage: 27.2
> battery.voltage.nominal: 24.0
> device.mfr: American Power Conversion
> device.model: Back-UPS XS 1300G

The larger capacity APC units (you have one) use TWO 12v batteries in
series to obtain the 24V nominal.

Do a Google Search for APC Back-UPS XS 1300G manual (the G is for
"Green", I believe) and you should find the manual you're looking for.
I was just gifted yet another APC unit and didn't have the manual (it
was an older model) and locating them on the APC site was difficult.
Nothing would be returned with their search engine.

When I did the Google search I found one... Guess where? On the APC
site. Go figure.

Also, look on the outside of your unit for a small (maybe 1"x3/8") white
bar code label it will have something like BX1300 or XB1300 on it. That
number means more than the model number emblazoned on the case of the UPS.

[Unquestionably Confused]

On 8/21/2015 1:00 PM, David W. Hodgins wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 10:15:32 -0400, Unquestionably Confused
> > wrote:
>


> I have no idea what to look for, when it's time to replace the battery.
> Not sure where I put the manual, and am having trouble finding one
> online.
>
> Regards, Dave Hodgins


Here, Dave, this should be the manual you need:

<http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/EALN-7SEGRP/EALN-7SEGRP_R7_EN.pdf>

[micky[_2_]]

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 10:43:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
> wrote:

>On 8/21/2015 10:15 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>
>>
>> Most UPS replacement batteries are more or less standard. APC favors
>> 12v 7.5amp for most of their low end residential/commercial UPS units.
>>
>> They take either a single battery or a pair and I have no problem
>> picking up batteries through various internet sites, Ebay or Amazon.com
>> for WAY less than half the price of APC replacement batteries. I get
>> ~3yrs service out of those "compatible" batteries. Who cares if they
>> may not (and I have no evidence of this) last as long as a "genuine" APC
>> replacement? Even if they last half as long, I'm still money ahead.
>>
>
>I just replaced the batteries in one unit. If you buy the genuine
>battery from APC is comes with the wiring harness attached and you pull
>out the two batteries as a unit and slide the new one in. Cost is $110.
>
>I found a place that sells replacements. I had to take the harness off
>(four spade connections) and put it on the new batteries. I also taped
>the two together to be a solid unit too. Cost was $37. plus half a
>penny for tape and five minutes to do the connections.
>
>This is where I bought, but there are many other sources.
>www.batterysharks.com/

Thanks Ed. I took a look, and bookmarked them, but

a) the guy at the store here was really nice to me a couple years ago.
When I went to pay him I saw I had lost my wallet. Went back to where I
had lunch, and paid for it, and owner told me they didn't have it.

Went back to battery store and he gave me one of the two I wanted on
credit, never met him before. I only needed one at the moment.

Got money at the bank the next day and went back and paid him. Also
stopped at the restaurant again and found out owner-wife had the wallet
the previous day and went home without telling owner-husband. So I got
my wallet back with everything in it. I'd dropped it on the floor
under the table where I ate.

b) it wasn't that much more money

c) he let me try the battery in the UPS before I bought it. . I didn't
know until this morning that even the one I paid $7 for and which said
Working on it didn't do anything when plugged it, even with an
all-but-dead battery . It doesn't have to have a load but it does have
to have a decent battery, or even the Online light doesn't go on. I
think the design stinks.

d) I wanted to get one of the batteries right away.

[micky[_2_]]

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 21:31:45 -0500, Unquestionably
Confused > wrote:

>On 8/21/2015 1:00 PM, David W. Hodgins wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 10:15:32 -0400, Unquestionably Confused
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Most UPS replacement batteries are more or less standard. APC favors
>>> 12v 7.5amp for most of their low end residential/commercial UPS units.
>>
>> From the upsc command on my system ...
>> battery.type: PbAc
>> battery.voltage: 27.2
>> battery.voltage.nominal: 24.0
>> device.mfr: American Power Conversion
>> device.model: Back-UPS XS 1300G
>
>The larger capacity APC units (you have one) use TWO 12v batteries in
>series to obtain the 24V nominal.
>
>Do a Google Search for APC Back-UPS XS 1300G manual (the G is for
>"Green", I believe) and you should find the manual you're looking for.

The manual, absolutely, but for replacement batteries, this won't work
and the manual won't either. They give the batteries silly names
like RBC2, RBC32, Replacement Battery Cartridge #32

For the battery give google the ups model number and use the words
replacement battery. I didn't think of that. Google suggested
it.

>I was just gifted yet another APC unit and didn't have the manual (it
>was an older model) and locating them on the APC site was difficult.
>Nothing would be returned with their search engine.
>
>When I did the Google search I found one... Guess where? On the APC
>site. Go figure.

Hmmm. By accident I went straight to google. I guess that saved me
some time.
>
>Also, look on the outside of your unit for a small (maybe 1"x3/8") white
>bar code label it will have something like BX1300 or XB1300 on it. That
>number means more than the model number emblazoned on the case of the UPS.

[micky[_2_]]

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 15:08:28 -0400, Frank <"frank
> wrote:

>
>I've got them on my three desktop computers.
>
>Surge protectors were not enough when power failed stopping computer in
>its tracks and losing hard drive sectors. This was years ago and maybe
>computers react better but why take chances. I buy cheap units as I
>only want enough power to safely power down computers. In maybe 20
>years, I've only had to replace one UPS.

My first UPS was for some reaons 70 or 80% off at a computer store. They
had 3.

Not APC and it had it's on/off switch in a cupola at the top, so it was
a lot easier to reach when the UPS was on the floor.

When I looked inside, there were plastic ribs holding the battery in
place so I broke out the ribs and put in a bigger battery. I figured
itwould only recharge as fast as it could, and I never drained the
battery anyhow, That one failed, but I still don't think the bigger
battery caused the failure. ????

[micky[_2_]]

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:39:20 -0400, micky
> wrote:

>>On 8/21/2015 9:09 AM, micky wrote:
>>> I have 2 UPSes, both used, and one was marked Working when I bought it
>>> for $7, and the other I might have gotten for free. I can't remember.
>>>
>>> Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
>>> impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
>>> battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
>>> should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.
>>>
>>> The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
>>> the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
>>> issue
>>>
>>> APC XS 900 .
>>>
>>> Does there have to be a load for the Online light to go on? It's off.
>>>
>>> A 60 watt lightbulb is as good a load as any, right?
>>>
>>> OTOH, the Building Wiring Fault light is on, probably because somewhere
>>> I lost the ground connection, but It's only plugged in for testing. Do
>>> I have to plug it in somewhere with a ground to get the Online light to
>>> go on?
>>>
>>>
>>Apparently, the batteries are ok in the one unit. Try putting the
>>'good' batteries into the other unit so see if it works, before ordering
>>new ones. As others have said, you can get good batteries for cheap on
>>the internet. I've replace mine at least 3 or 4 times over the last 15
>>or so years and it's still going. When I was 1st gifted with this old
>>AT&T UPS, it wouldn't even pass line current to the output. I borrowed
>>a bunch of 6 volt batteries and connected 4 in series ... this UPS
>>actually uses 24 volts instead of the usual 12 volts. Once the new
>>batteries were connected, it started passing line voltage through.
>>Apparently, on this unit, when the batteries are dead, it tells you by
>>not working at all.
>
>What a system!
>
>The other answers were valuable and I'm going to reply to them later,
>but this is the answer I was looking for.
>
>Somehow I was suspicious that this could happen, so I'll see if it's
>happening to me.

Yes. First, even the one that was marked Working was like yours. It
did nothing when plugged in, but I brought it to the store and he let me
try the new battery in it. I had no load and the Online light was off
even after I plugged it in, but after I pushed the button, that light
flashed green, in a few seconds the yellow self-test light went on, and
when that went off, the first light was steady green.

Then I took the two batteries I bought and tested the one at home that
Paul pointed out had terrible Amazon rattngs. It was dead too, even
when plugged in with the old batteries ---- What a crummy design ---
but with new ones -- they didnt fit in the case but the wires were long
enough -- it acted just like in the previous paragraph. I
couldn't hear it hum but my fingers could feel it, including for a
minute or two after I turned it off, even though it had only been on for
couple minutes. So it takes that long to cool off when it's barely
gotten hot I forgot to test it with the lamp, darn, but it probably
works. Well there's that transfer issue. It uses a very common size
battery, two NP7-12's, which will fit my home burglar alarm too.

Air can get in through any of the 8 3-prong holes for electric plugs
that are not being used. Or they can go out that way, but that puts all
the air near the back of the box. I suppose I should drill a couple
holes in the case, maybe 1/2? inch on each side. One inch?

[David W. Hodgins]

On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 22:37:34 -0400, Unquestionably Confused > wrote:

> Here, Dave, this should be the manual you need:
> <http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/EALN-7SEGRP/EALN-7SEGRP_R7_EN.pdf>

Thanks! Based on the images etc., it does look like the correct manual.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

--
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[David W. Hodgins]

On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 22:31:45 -0400, Unquestionably Confused > wrote:

> Also, look on the outside of your unit for a small (maybe 1"x3/8") white
> bar code label it will have something like BX1300 or XB1300 on it. That
> number means more than the model number emblazoned on the case of the UPS.

There are enough wires around it (it supplies two desktop computers, two
monitors, cable modem, sound amplifier, router, tv, and a light) that it
will be difficult to access without unplugging everything. As the battery
seems to be ok (just over 2 years old), I'll leave it where it is. It has
good air flow, and anytime I hear thunder, I turn everything off, including
the ups, an unplug it, just to be on the safe side. I trust it to handle
short outages, voltage spikes or drops, but not a nearby lightning strike.
I've lost a lot of electronic devices due to lightning strikes in the past.

I'll keep that in mind for when the battery eventually does go.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

--
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[David W. Hodgins]

On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 16:42:40 -0400, J. P. Gilliver (John) > wrote:

> In message >, David W. Hodgins
> > writes:
>> From the upsc command on my system ...
>> battery.type: PbAc
>
> I presume that means lead-acid. (Most of this sort of thing use "SLA" -
> sealed lead-acid - which have a gel inside rather than liquid, which
> means the batteries can be used any way up.)
>
>> battery.voltage: 27.2
>> battery.voltage.nominal: 24.0
>
> (Sounds healthy!) I'd guess two 12-volt ones.

It's either a single battery, or two in one case, so it looks like one.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

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[Unquestionably Confused]

On 8/22/2015 2:46 AM, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 21:31:45 -0500, Unquestionably
> Confused > wrote:

[snip]


>>
>> Do a Google Search for APC Back-UPS XS 1300G manual (the G is for
>> "Green", I believe) and you should find the manual you're looking for.
>
> The manual, absolutely, but for replacement batteries, this won't work
> and the manual won't either. They give the batteries silly names
> like RBC2, RBC32, Replacement Battery Cartridge #32

Yes, they certainly do give them silly names like RBC2 and RCB32.
However, any battery supply house worthy of the name will have cross
references to the batteries used in perhaps the widest selling brand of
UPS devices.

APC and others with "proprietary" numbers count on some people being
idiots and unable or unwilling to look past the end of their fingertip
as the mouth the words in the owner's manuals. ;)

[Unquestionably Confused]

On 8/22/2015 3:16 AM, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:39:20 -0400, micky
> > wrote:
>
[snip]

>> What a system!
>>
>> The other answers were valuable and I'm going to reply to them later,
>> but this is the answer I was looking for.
>>
>> Somehow I was suspicious that this could happen, so I'll see if it's
>> happening to me.
>
> Yes. First, even the one that was marked Working was like yours. It
> did nothing when plugged in, but I brought it to the store and he let me

[snip]

> Air can get in through any of the 8 3-prong holes for electric plugs
> that are not being used. Or they can go out that way, but that puts all
> the air near the back of the box. I suppose I should drill a couple
> holes in the case, maybe 1/2? inch on each side. One inch?

So now the expert on Newsgroup posting has taken to replying to his own
posts? Wonderful. Take bit of your own "expert" advice and start
trimming your posts. We really don't need to read the entire thread
over and over. Nor, for that matter, do we need to know the saga of
your missing wallet and who, exactly found it and where.

Somehow I don't think your idea of drilling 1/2" or 1" holes in the case
of your UPS for added ventilation is the brightest idea. To ensure you
don't accidentally damage something and not have a working UPS when you
need it, I'd suggest drilling those holes while the unit is plugged in.
That way you'll know immediately if you damaged something. :)

[Unquestionably Confused]

On 8/22/2015 3:37 AM, David W. Hodgins wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 22:37:34 -0400, Unquestionably Confused
> > wrote:
>
>> Here, Dave, this should be the manual you need:
>> <http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/EALN-7SEGRP/EALN-7SEGRP_R7_EN.pdf>
>
> Thanks! Based on the images etc., it does look like the correct manual.

Quite a few of those APC manuals actually cover a multitude of their
"models." The best indicator/reference is usually that little bar code
label reading "BX1300" or "BS1300" etc.

[Unquestionably Confused]

On 8/22/2015 3:50 AM, David W. Hodgins wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 16:42:40 -0400, J. P. Gilliver (John)
> > wrote:
>
>> In message >, David W. Hodgins
>> > writes:
>>> From the upsc command on my system ...
>>> battery.type: PbAc
>>
>> I presume that means lead-acid. (Most of this sort of thing use "SLA" -
>> sealed lead-acid - which have a gel inside rather than liquid, which
>> means the batteries can be used any way up.)
>>
>>> battery.voltage: 27.2
>>> battery.voltage.nominal: 24.0
>>
>> (Sounds healthy!) I'd guess two 12-volt ones.
>
> It's either a single battery, or two in one case, so it looks like one.


No, you'll find that it's two batteries, in series, which is APC's
style. The two batteries will be joined by a piece of double-sided
sticky tape and connected in series using a little jumper (sometimes
with an inline fuse in the larger units.

As others have mentioned, just buy the appropriate replacement cells. I
just "re-batteried" two such units and used some clear 1½" packaging
tape to bind them together.

Piece of cake!

[Ant[_3_]]

Try asking in http://forums.apc.com/ as well.


On 8/21/2015 6:09 AM, micky wrote:
> I have 2 UPSes, both used, and one was marked Working when I bought it
> for $7, and the other I might have gotten for free. I can't remember.
>
> Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
> impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
> battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
> should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.
>
> The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
> the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
> issue
>
> APC XS 900 .
>
> Does there have to be a load for the Online light to go on? It's off.
>
> A 60 watt lightbulb is as good a load as any, right?
>
> OTOH, the Building Wiring Fault light is on, probably because somewhere
> I lost the ground connection, but It's only plugged in for testing. Do
> I have to plug it in somewhere with a ground to get the Online light to
> go on?
>
>


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