How to shut off a frozen XP laptop

[[email protected]]

Using my laptop at a WIFI spot, with XP SP3 using Firefox 28, I opened a
Yahoo video page, started to play a video, got a script error, and the
whole computer froze. CTRL-ALT-DEL did not work, I clicked shut down, it
did not shut down. I could not shut off Firefox or close XP. Hitting the
power button did nothing.

On a desktop computer, I'd just pull the plug, but on a laptop, shutting
off the power just makes the battery take over. I finally had to unplug
the power cord AND remove the battery. Is there an easier way?????

Final Comment: I HATE FUC*ING JAVA SCRIPT!!!

[Rodney Pont[_4_]]

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 04:09:49 -0500, wrote:

>On a desktop computer, I'd just pull the plug, but on a laptop, shutting
>off the power just makes the battery take over. I finally had to unplug
>the power cord AND remove the battery. Is there an easier way?????

Just hold the power button in for > 4 seconds.

--
Faster, cheaper, quieter than HS2
and built in 5 years;
UKUltraspeed <http://www.500kmh.com/>

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 10:37:34 +0100 (BST), "Rodney Pont"
> wrote:

>On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 04:09:49 -0500, wrote:
>
>>On a desktop computer, I'd just pull the plug, but on a laptop, shutting
>>off the power just makes the battery take over. I finally had to unplug
>>the power cord AND remove the battery. Is there an easier way?????
>
>Just hold the power button in for > 4 seconds.

I cant make the computer freeze up, but I was just letting it idle
(doing nothing), and I held down the power button for 4 seconds, and it
shut off. I never knew about that! Thanks!

[VanguardLH[_2_]]

radarlove wrote:

> Using my laptop at a WIFI spot, with XP SP3 using Firefox 28, I opened
> a Yahoo video page, started to play a video, got a script error, and
> the whole computer froze. CTRL-ALT-DEL did not work, I clicked shut
> down, it did not shut down. I could not shut off Firefox or close XP.
> Hitting the power button did nothing.

Try holding down the power button for 4-10 seconds. That's how you tell
the motherboard logic to force the PSU to shutdown on desktops. Might
be the same on laptops.

> On a desktop computer, I'd just pull the plug, but on a laptop,
> shutting off the power just makes the battery take over. I finally
> had to unplug the power cord AND remove the battery. Is there an
> easier way?????

So pull the battery, too. First pull the cord, then yank the battery.

> Final Comment: I HATE FUC*ING JAVA SCRIPT!!!

Although it might've been a script that was stuck in a loop, very slow,
or performing some highly repetetive although probably poorly coded
function, it's not the script's fault the application (web browser)
decided to hang everything. Well, it's the fault of the script for
doing something wrong but ultimately it is a problem with the
application that does not timeout on the script or hangs the computer.

Of course, since you mentioned playing video, it may not be the fault of
the script at all. May not even be the fault of the web browser.
Videos are encoded. To play them means having to decode them. That's
why you have to install codec (coder, decoder). That is a *program*.
It is an executable to process the video. Although it runs within the
process of the app, the app calls the codec as the handler to decode the
video. The script and app can't do anything about a bad codec. Find
out what codec was used to encode the video. If it's streamed, you may
not know. If it's downloaded, metadata within the video file should
tell you. Just like malware that targets OS and app vulnerabilities,
there are malicious videos that target crappy codecs, or it could be a
good video but still a crappy codec. You may never know which codec is
crap so you may have to step on all of them with a reinstall, like
installing the K-Lite Codec Mega pack.

You don't know if was only a Javascript fault. Since it happened when
playing audio, it could have been a codec fault. Web browsers can
usually recover from Javascript ****ups. Even if the web browser hangs,
the OS should still be sufficiently available to kill the web browser's
process. Even at 100% CPU usage, you should still be able to get to
Task Manager. If it's a codec ****up, well, that's a program and can
hang your OS just like any app could hang the OS. Users don't realize
when downloading and installing codecs that they are installing
programs.

[micky[_2_]]

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Mon, 31 Aug 2015 05:26:51
-0500, wrote:

>On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 10:37:34 +0100 (BST), "Rodney Pont"
> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 04:09:49 -0500, wrote:
>>
>>>On a desktop computer, I'd just pull the plug, but on a laptop, shutting
>>>off the power just makes the battery take over. I finally had to unplug
>>>the power cord AND remove the battery. Is there an easier way?????
>>
>>Just hold the power button in for > 4 seconds.
>
>I cant make the computer freeze up, but I was just letting it idle
>(doing nothing), and I held down the power button for 4 seconds, and it
>shut off. I never knew about that! Thanks!

That came out when they took away the on-off switch.

I still feel cheated.

[Bob F[_2_]]

micky wrote:
> In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Mon, 31 Aug 2015 05:26:51
> -0500, wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 10:37:34 +0100 (BST), "Rodney Pont"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 04:09:49 -0500, wrote:
>>>
>>>> On a desktop computer, I'd just pull the plug, but on a laptop,
>>>> shutting off the power just makes the battery take over. I finally
>>>> had to unplug the power cord AND remove the battery. Is there an
>>>> easier way?????
>>>
>>> Just hold the power button in for > 4 seconds.
>>
>> I cant make the computer freeze up, but I was just letting it idle
>> (doing nothing), and I held down the power button for 4 seconds, and
>> it shut off. I never knew about that! Thanks!
>
> That came out when they took away the on-off switch.
>
> I still feel cheated.

Most good power supplies have an on/off switch. And there's always the power
cord.

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 12:09:57 -0400, micky >
wrote:

>In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Mon, 31 Aug 2015 05:26:51
>-0500, wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 10:37:34 +0100 (BST), "Rodney Pont"
> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 04:09:49 -0500, wrote:
>>>
>>>>On a desktop computer, I'd just pull the plug, but on a laptop, shutting
>>>>off the power just makes the battery take over. I finally had to unplug
>>>>the power cord AND remove the battery. Is there an easier way?????
>>>
>>>Just hold the power button in for > 4 seconds.
>>
>>I cant make the computer freeze up, but I was just letting it idle
>>(doing nothing), and I held down the power button for 4 seconds, and it
>>shut off. I never knew about that! Thanks!
>
>That came out when they took away the on-off switch.
>
>I still feel cheated.

It was originally part of the ATX standard and remains on every
machine since that I have seen. It also seems to carry over to
cable/satellite boxes and other similar stuff with a processor in it.

[VanguardLH[_2_]]

Bob F wrote:

> micky wrote:
>
>> radarlove wrote:
>>
>>> Rodney Pont wrote:
>>>
>>>> radarlove wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On a desktop computer, I'd just pull the plug, but on a laptop,
>>>>> shutting off the power just makes the battery take over.
>>>>
>>>> Just hold the power button in for > 4 seconds.
>>>
>>> I never knew about that! Thanks!
>>
>> That came out when they took away the on-off switch.
>
> Most good power supplies have an on/off switch. And there's always the
> power cord.

He probably means the mechanical Power switch from the old AT days is
gone. That had wires going from the switch directly to the PSU to
shutoff the PSU (and it shutoff completely). There was no 4-second
force power off with an AT power switch. When switched off, the PSU
turned off immediately.

For the ATX era, the Power switch does *not* go to the PSU. Instead it
goes to the motherboard where there is logic to control the state of the
PSU. In order for the mobo logic to work means there must be a
continuous 5VSB line from the PSU. As long as the PSU gets A/C input
power, the PSU does not completely shutoff but instead turns off its
mains and still supplies the 5VSB (5 volt standby) line needed for the
mobo logic.

The ATX power switch to the mobo is called a soft switch (versus the
hard switch of AT that went to the PSU). Why? Because the ATX power
switch does not itself make the PSU power down. The mobo logic makes
the PSU power down. Unless you yank the power cord from the PSU or
disconnect A/C power to whatever the cord is plug into, an ATX PSU does
*not* go completely off nor is it connected to the Power switch.

Not all but some ATX PSUs include a switch on their backside. THAT
switch behaves like the old AT power switch: in the off position, the
PSU is really off (no 5VSB) and the mobo cannot turn on the PSU.

The old AT power switch was a 2-position mechanical push switch. It had
2 positions and relied on a mechanical lock to flip position on a push
stroke. If the switch went bad, and you couldn't find a replacement
case switch, you could use your own 2-pole switch. The ATX power switch
is just a momentary contact switch. It does not stay locked in any
position. The mobo logic only needs to see the power header get pulled
to ground to know the momentary switch made contact.

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 07:07:39 -0500, VanguardLH > wrote:

>> Final Comment: I HATE FUC*ING JAVA SCRIPT!!!
>
>Although it might've been a script that was stuck in a loop, very slow,
>or performing some highly repetetive although probably poorly coded
>function, it's not the script's fault the application (web browser)
>decided to hang everything. Well, it's the fault of the script for
>doing something wrong but ultimately it is a problem with the
>application that does not timeout on the script or hangs the computer.
>
>Of course, since you mentioned playing video, it may not be the fault of
>the script at all. May not even be the fault of the web browser.
>Videos are encoded. To play them means having to decode them. That's
>why you have to install codec (coder, decoder). That is a *program*.
>It is an executable to process the video. Although it runs within the
>process of the app, the app calls the codec as the handler to decode the
>video. The script and app can't do anything about a bad codec. Find
>out what codec was used to encode the video. If it's streamed, you may
>not know. If it's downloaded, metadata within the video file should
>tell you. Just like malware that targets OS and app vulnerabilities,
>there are malicious videos that target crappy codecs, or it could be a
>good video but still a crappy codec. You may never know which codec is
>crap so you may have to step on all of them with a reinstall, like
>installing the K-Lite Codec Mega pack.
>
>You don't know if was only a Javascript fault. Since it happened when
>playing audio, it could have been a codec fault. Web browsers can
>usually recover from Javascript ****ups. Even if the web browser hangs,
>the OS should still be sufficiently available to kill the web browser's
>process. Even at 100% CPU usage, you should still be able to get to
>Task Manager. If it's a codec ****up, well, that's a program and can
>hang your OS just like any app could hang the OS. Users don't realize
>when downloading and installing codecs that they are installing
>programs.

Message popped up about "script error", giving me the option to click on
Cancel or Continue. I always click cancel on those things. That did
nothing, computer was frozen from then on. I had just turned it on too,
and always clear the cache before exiting, so it happened NOW and there
was no way to stop it. I spent 5 minutes clicking on stuff, even tried
to open START to shutdown. Nothing worked.

[VanguardLH[_2_]]

radarlove wrote:

> Message popped up about "script error", giving me the option to click on
> Cancel or Continue. I always click cancel on those things. That did
> nothing, computer was frozen from then on. I had just turned it on too,
> and always clear the cache before exiting, so it happened NOW and there
> was no way to stop it. I spent 5 minutes clicking on stuff, even tried
> to open START to shutdown. Nothing worked.

Yep, which still could've been a screwed up codec. The script expects
something to happen, the codec is unresponsive, so the script errors.
If the codec won't cooperate. The script can't do much about it.

Users have reported Win7 crashing when try to watch a video in WMP
(Windows Media Player). No script, just viewing the video in player and
Windows hangs.

Disable scripting in the web browser and then revisit the web site to
watch the same video. Sometimes you can view a video without
Javascript, sometimes not. If Javascript isn't needed there, check if
Win7 hangs again watching the same video.

[Paul]

VanguardLH wrote:
> radarlove wrote:
>
>> Message popped up about "script error", giving me the option to click on
>> Cancel or Continue. I always click cancel on those things. That did
>> nothing, computer was frozen from then on. I had just turned it on too,
>> and always clear the cache before exiting, so it happened NOW and there
>> was no way to stop it. I spent 5 minutes clicking on stuff, even tried
>> to open START to shutdown. Nothing worked.
>
> Yep, which still could've been a screwed up codec. The script expects
> something to happen, the codec is unresponsive, so the script errors.
> If the codec won't cooperate. The script can't do much about it.
>
> Users have reported Win7 crashing when try to watch a video in WMP
> (Windows Media Player). No script, just viewing the video in player and
> Windows hangs.
>
> Disable scripting in the web browser and then revisit the web site to
> watch the same video. Sometimes you can view a video without
> Javascript, sometimes not. If Javascript isn't needed there, check if
> Win7 hangs again watching the same video.

If this is the Yahoo News page, you can't very
well turn off Javascript. There'd be nothing
to see if you did that. I think one of the
Javascript files on that page, is close to
2MB in size. Which, for a script, is huge.

The Yahoo News page is simply a horribly crafted
work of art. I'm sure some designer at Yahoo has
a line item on his resume, and a comment like
"I did that". But there are a few users out there,
who wouldn't hire that guy. It's a toilet paper
web page (it keeps scrolling back in time) while
at the same time, it causes *multiple* Flash movies
to start playing. Even on a decent computer (hardware
wise), it's a heavy load. And the video player wrapper
lacks controls, on top of all that. (That's to prevent
you from hammering the adverts, and stopping them.)
And you cannot use FlashBlock to manage the load
from the videos, and allow just one video to play
at a time.

On a news site like CNN, I can still use FlashBlock
to limit the amount of video loaded at one time. Which is
worth something.

Paul

[micky[_2_]]

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Mon, 31 Aug 2015 13:18:32
-0400, wrote:

>On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 12:09:57 -0400, micky >
>wrote:
>
>>In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Mon, 31 Aug 2015 05:26:51
>>-0500, wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 10:37:34 +0100 (BST), "Rodney Pont"
> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 04:09:49 -0500, wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On a desktop computer, I'd just pull the plug, but on a laptop, shutting
>>>>>off the power just makes the battery take over. I finally had to unplug
>>>>>the power cord AND remove the battery. Is there an easier way?????
>>>>
>>>>Just hold the power button in for > 4 seconds.
>>>
>>>I cant make the computer freeze up, but I was just letting it idle
>>>(doing nothing), and I held down the power button for 4 seconds, and it
>>>shut off. I never knew about that! Thanks!
>>
>>That came out when they took away the on-off switch.
>>
>>I still feel cheated.
>
>It was originally part of the ATX standard and remains on every
>machine since that I have seen. It also seems to carry over to
>cable/satellite boxes and other similar stuff with a processor in it.

There has beens no mechanical on/off switch on most of the computers or
power supplies I've seen in the last 5 years. Without getting out of
my chair, some of these were Dell and one was one I assembled myself.
The case came with a power supply, although I may hve replaced that
later.

[Bob F[_2_]]

VanguardLH wrote:
> Bob F wrote:
>
>> micky wrote:
>>
>>> radarlove wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rodney Pont wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> radarlove wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On a desktop computer, I'd just pull the plug, but on a laptop,
>>>>>> shutting off the power just makes the battery take over.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just hold the power button in for > 4 seconds.
>>>>
>>>> I never knew about that! Thanks!
>>>
>>> That came out when they took away the on-off switch.
>>
>> Most good power supplies have an on/off switch. And there's always
>> the power cord.
>
> He probably means the mechanical Power switch from the old AT days is
> gone. That had wires going from the switch directly to the PSU to
> shutoff the PSU (and it shutoff completely). There was no 4-second
> force power off with an AT power switch. When switched off, the PSU
> turned off immediately.
>
> For the ATX era, the Power switch does *not* go to the PSU. Instead
> it goes to the motherboard where there is logic to control the state
> of the PSU. In order for the mobo logic to work means there must be a
> continuous 5VSB line from the PSU. As long as the PSU gets A/C input
> power, the PSU does not completely shutoff but instead turns off its
> mains and still supplies the 5VSB (5 volt standby) line needed for the
> mobo logic.
>
> The ATX power switch to the mobo is called a soft switch (versus the
> hard switch of AT that went to the PSU). Why? Because the ATX power
> switch does not itself make the PSU power down. The mobo logic makes
> the PSU power down. Unless you yank the power cord from the PSU or
> disconnect A/C power to whatever the cord is plug into, an ATX PSU
> does *not* go completely off nor is it connected to the Power switch.
>
> Not all but some ATX PSUs include a switch on their backside. THAT
> switch behaves like the old AT power switch: in the off position, the
> PSU is really off (no 5VSB) and the mobo cannot turn on the PSU.
>
> The old AT power switch was a 2-position mechanical push switch. It
> had 2 positions and relied on a mechanical lock to flip position on a
> push stroke. If the switch went bad, and you couldn't find a
> replacement case switch, you could use your own 2-pole switch. The
> ATX power switch is just a momentary contact switch. It does not
> stay locked in any position. The mobo logic only needs to see the
> power header get pulled to ground to know the momentary switch made

Every desktop power supply I use has a hard power switch on the back of the
supply.
> contact.

[Paul]

Bob F wrote:

>
> Every desktop power supply I use has a hard power switch on the back of the
> supply.

My Mac G4 doesn't have a power switch on the back.
Instead, the unit has a small relay inside. When it
senses AC is available, about two seconds later the
relay contacts close and the ATX supply is energized
inside. Which means that +5VSB is always available
inside the computer, unless you unplug it. There
are no sparks when you plug it in, and the purpose
of the relay is to hide the details and make a
more elegant solution.

There have been a few Dells that do it that way.

Personally, I think I prefer having a switch.

Paul

[VanguardLH[_2_]]

Bob F wrote:

> Every desktop power supply I use has a hard power switch on the back of the
> supply.

Some micro-ATX PSUs have a backside power switch but many do not (and
only have a backside voltage select switch):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817338031
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA3SD25X6265
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA5751VR2932
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0ZX2C26589

However, for the bigger (fullsize) ATX PSUs where there is more room for
a switch, wiring, and fuse, many (but not all) of them have the backside
hard switch to complement the ATX soft-on power side.

If you are doing your own builds, the PSUs offered you are not those
found in mass manufactured pre-builts. For what the computer maker
charges you to get a replacement PSU, you can spend the same single-unit
high price on a much better PSU sold to the hobbyist or system builder
market. In the 20 years since ATX PSUs showed up, I've probably had to
add a backside hard switch and case fuse holder to maybe all of short a
dozen (I never kept count but still have spare parts on hand to do it
again). Not a lot but still the hard switch is not included on all of
them, and that's only my personal history of salvaging or repairing PCs
so, in total, there are more without the hard switch. I don't have any
salvaged PSUs sitting in my drawers right now without the hard switch
but I know my buddy has one since I had to borrow it for testing an old
PC from a customer that decided to toss it (so I repaired it and used it
for a few years - don't need much for e-mail or web surfing).

Reminds me of the hunter that comes out of the corn field claiming there
wasn't a pheasant to be seen while another hunter emerges from the same
corn field with full hangers. Different hunters, different experiences.

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 20:38:20 -0400, Paul > wrote:

>
>My Mac G4 doesn't have a power switch on the back.
>Instead, the unit has a small relay inside. When it
>senses AC is available, about two seconds later the
>relay contacts close and the ATX supply is energized
>inside. Which means that +5VSB is always available
>inside the computer, unless you unplug it. There
>are no sparks when you plug it in, and the purpose
>of the relay is to hide the details and make a
>more elegant solution.
>
>There have been a few Dells that do it that way.
>
>Personally, I think I prefer having a switch.
>
> Paul

I have an HP desktop computer that has no PSU switch. When I shut down
XP, it shuts off the computer. But if I boot to Linux from a flash drive
and shut it down, Linux shuts down, but the light on the computer is
still on (yellow instead of blue, whereas blue is when it's running). I
could add a switch, but I just plug it into a power strip and shut that
off. That also shuts off my monitor, ecternal modem, and anything else.
So, actually that's better so I dont have to shut off numerous things.

I remember my old 386 or 486 computer had a 120V outlet on the rear for
the monitor, and the power switch would shut off BOTH. I wonder why they
quit adding the outlets? I suppose beccause it saved a buck!

[Paul]

wrote:

>
> I have an HP desktop computer that has no PSU switch. When I shut down
> XP, it shuts off the computer. But if I boot to Linux from a flash drive
> and shut it down, Linux shuts down, but the light on the computer is
> still on (yellow instead of blue, whereas blue is when it's running). I
> could add a switch, but I just plug it into a power strip and shut that
> off. That also shuts off my monitor, ecternal modem, and anything else.
> So, actually that's better so I dont have to shut off numerous things.
>
> I remember my old 386 or 486 computer had a 120V outlet on the rear for
> the monitor, and the power switch would shut off BOTH. I wonder why they
> quit adding the outlets? I suppose beccause it saved a buck!

Routing 120V wiring of any type inside computers, wasn't
all that wonderful an idea. The way they work now, is a lot
safer.

Paul