Unhibernate but after multi-boot menu?

[micky[_2_]]

I like to use Hibernate, but when I start up again after using
Hibernate, unhibernating is the only option I have. It's not even an
option, it just starts doing it.

Is there any way to to first show my mulit-boot menu and if I pick the
hibernated choice, to unhibernate? And if I pick something else, for
the hibernate file to remain unused until I come back to that choice/
partition?

When I google about this, almost all the hits bring up Ubuntu. Is that
because those are the people who most often want dual boot?


If my question is clear, skip this paragraph If my question is
not clear, FWLIW, here's my question written by someone else, but the
only response brings up Ubuntu and a bunch of words I don't understand.
http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=33105

[Paul]

micky wrote:
> I like to use Hibernate, but when I start up again after using
> Hibernate, unhibernating is the only option I have. It's not even an
> option, it just starts doing it.
>
> Is there any way to to first show my mulit-boot menu and if I pick the
> hibernated choice, to unhibernate? And if I pick something else, for
> the hibernate file to remain unused until I come back to that choice/
> partition?
>
> When I google about this, almost all the hits bring up Ubuntu. Is that
> because those are the people who most often want dual boot?
>
>
> If my question is clear, skip this paragraph If my question is
> not clear, FWLIW, here's my question written by someone else, but the
> only response brings up Ubuntu and a bunch of words I don't understand.
> http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=33105

I can't promise anything, but try the following.

1) Boot WinXP.
2) select the shutdown (by hibernation) option.
Wait for the machine to go silent.
3) Now, power off at the back of the system. The idea being,
maybe the hibernate bit will be forgotten if the power is
removed.
4) Now start up. Does the BIOS now accept new inputs ?
Instead of just loading the hibernated OS from hiberfile automatically ?

Note that Linux will not mount a hibernated C:. So if you
dual boot Ubuntu and WinXP, hibernate WinXP, work some sorta
magic to get around the hibernate bit, then boot into Ubuntu,
that Ubuntu will throw up a dialog if you click the WinXP
partition in the Ubuntu file manager.

If you boot WinXP later, the OS is supposed to be smart
enough to check the hiberfil.sys and realize a hibernation
is in progress. It should load the hiberfile as a result,
and not do a fresh boot and fresh session.

The quickest solution, is not to use hibernate on the WinXP
in the first place. If you're multi-booting, shut down one
OS completely, before running the other.

HTH,
Paul

[VanguardLH[_2_]]

micky wrote:

> I like to use Hibernate, but when I start up again after using
> Hibernate, unhibernating is the only option I have. It's not even an
> option, it just starts doing it.

Hit the F8 key after you see the POST screen but *before* the OS starts
loading (i.e., before the default entry in boot.ini gets selected). I
thought the boot menu always appeared when more than one OS was defined
within boot.ini; else, how could you select which one to load? Perhaps
you have the timeout (which OS to select if you don't pick one) set way
too low. Run msconfig.exe and under the Boot tab check how much delay
the boot loader will wait before selecting the default OS. I recall
setting the delay to 3 seconds longer than I actually wanted. Seems the
timer begin before the boot menu even gets displayed.

> Is there any way to to first show my mulit-boot menu and if I pick the
> hibernated choice, to unhibernate? And if I pick something else, for
> the hibernate file to remain unused until I come back to that choice/
> partition?

Microsoft dual-boot scheme is like their old 9x/DOS kernel setup for
Win9x: a frankenjob. The BIOS loads the MBR boostrap code which picks
the boot sector for the active-marked partition to load the OS boot
loader from there and the [Windows] boot loader reads boot.ini to
determine which OS to load. So you have to load a tiny part of Windows
before you can decide which OS you really wanted to load.

Other boot manager work definitely. They don't have their code in the
partition of an OS. They are in the 446-byte bootstrap area of the MBR
(1st sector of the 1st track in the first BIOS-detected disk); i.e.,
they usurp the MBR bootstrap code. Some are small enough to fit
entirely in that 446-byte bootstrap area (e.g., gag.sourceforge.net).
Because the 1st track cannot be assigned to any partition (because its
first sector is assigned as the MBR), some will extend their program
into the first track so they have more code to add more functionality.
So without ANY of the OS needed to load a boot menu and without any of
the boot manager being in a partition (which would result in losing the
boot manager if, say, the partition got resized, corrupted, or
formatted), you have an OS-independent and partition-independent boot
manager that will present you a list of candidate OS'es to load.

I've used GAG in the past. GRUB is typically employed by Linux users.
XOSL is another boot manager but at the cost of a partition; i.e., it
needs its own partition to run probably because it is a big program.
The others usurp the MBR bootstrap area (replace the standard bootstrap
code) and may extend into the rest of the 1st track but they have no
resource cost (they don't need additional disk space, like having to use
a dedicated partition or, even worse yet, installing within a [Windows]
partition). Smart Boot Manager (http://btmgr.sourceforge.net/) is
another one (I never used it).

There is another choice: don't dual- or multi-boot. Get a docking bay
in your system case. You can slide in whichever drive you want to boot
the OS on that drive. This also means one OS on one drive cannot see or
alter the OS on another drive. Windows is notorious for peeking into
other partitions where Windows is installed. If you want to have a
common data area shared by all OS'es then get a separate drive for your
data. It doesn't have to be a hotswap docking bay since you would be
shutting down one OS including powering down and then you swap disks.

http://www.startech.com/HDD/Mobile-Racks/Black-Aluminum-Serial-ATA-Drive-Drawer~DRW150SATBK

That's just an example of one that I found in an online search. Newegg
wasn't playing nice with me at the time to let me do searches. There
are cheaper ones than this one but you don't want to get too cheap as
that results in one that easily breaks. If you want it to last for
awhile, like the life of the computer, get a solidly built one. If
you're a bit sloppy on your behavior (not powering down before swapping
drives) then get a hotswap bay as it will disconnect power as you eject
the drive before disconnecting the signal pins. You buy one docking bay
(to put in a drive bay in your case that has an external face, not an
internal bay) and multiple caddies in which you install the drives.
Then you swap the drives when you want to switch the OS. I like
hardware solutions over software workarounds.

[micky[_2_]]

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Fri, 11 Sep 2015 21:34:55
-0500, VanguardLH > wrote:

>micky wrote:
>
>> I like to use Hibernate, but when I start up again after using
>> Hibernate, unhibernating is the only option I have. It's not even an
>> option, it just starts doing it.
>
>Hit the F8 key after you see the POST screen but *before* the OS starts

I hadn't thought much about it. I used to have dual boot with win98,
but I guess I didn't use hibernate then. And I had dual boot with
win3.1 and win98, but I'm sure I didn't use hibernate then. (I bought a
pre-miicorsoft version of hibernate but iirc even with much less RAM it
toook a long time to copy it to the HDD. )

>loading (i.e., before the default entry in boot.ini gets selected). I
>thought the boot menu always appeared when more than one OS was defined
>within boot.ini; else, how could you select which one to load? Perhaps
>you have the timeout (which OS to select if you don't pick one) set way
>too low. Run msconfig.exe and under the Boot tab check how much delay
>the boot loader will wait before selecting the default OS. I recall
>setting the delay to 3 seconds longer than I actually wanted. Seems the
>timer begin before the boot menu even gets displayed.

No, it's 16 seconds. And when I Turn Off or Shut Down, then I have no
trouble seeing the menu when I restart.
>
>> Is there any way to to first show my mulit-boot menu and if I pick the
>> hibernated choice, to unhibernate? And if I pick something else, for
>> the hibernate file to remain unused until I come back to that choice/
>> partition?
>
>Microsoft dual-boot scheme is like their old 9x/DOS kernel setup for
>Win9x: a frankenjob. The BIOS loads the MBR boostrap code which picks
>the boot sector for the active-marked partition to load the OS boot
>loader from there and the [Windows] boot loader reads boot.ini to
>determine which OS to load. So you have to load a tiny part of Windows
>before you can decide which OS you really wanted to load.
>
>Other boot manager work definitely. They don't have their code in the
>partition of an OS. They are in the 446-byte bootstrap area of the MBR
>(1st sector of the 1st track in the first BIOS-detected disk); i.e.,
>they usurp the MBR bootstrap code. Some are small enough to fit
>entirely in that 446-byte bootstrap area (e.g., gag.sourceforge.net).
>Because the 1st track cannot be assigned to any partition (because its
>first sector is assigned as the MBR), some will extend their program
>into the first track so they have more code to add more functionality.
>So without ANY of the OS needed to load a boot menu and without any of
>the boot manager being in a partition (which would result in losing the
>boot manager if, say, the partition got resized, corrupted, or
>formatted), you have an OS-independent and partition-independent boot
>manager that will present you a list of candidate OS'es to load.
>
>I've used GAG in the past. GRUB is typically employed by Linux users.
>XOSL is another boot manager but at the cost of a partition; i.e., it
>needs its own partition to run probably because it is a big program.
>The others usurp the MBR bootstrap area (replace the standard bootstrap
>code) and may extend into the rest of the 1st track but they have no
>resource cost (they don't need additional disk space, like having to use
>a dedicated partition or, even worse yet, installing within a [Windows]
>partition). Smart Boot Manager (http://btmgr.sourceforge.net/) is
>another one (I never used it).
>
>There is another choice: don't dual- or multi-boot. Get a docking bay
>in your system case. You can slide in whichever drive you want to boot
>the OS on that drive. This also means one OS on one drive cannot see or
>alter the OS on another drive. Windows is notorious for peeking into
>other partitions where Windows is installed. If you want to have a
>common data area shared by all OS'es then get a separate drive for your
>data. It doesn't have to be a hotswap docking bay since you would be
>shutting down one OS including powering down and then you swap disks.
>
>http://www.startech.com/HDD/Mobile-Racks/Black-Aluminum-Serial-ATA-Drive-Drawer~DRW150SATBK
>
>That's just an example of one that I found in an online search. Newegg
>wasn't playing nice with me at the time to let me do searches. There
>are cheaper ones than this one but you don't want to get too cheap as
>that results in one that easily breaks. If you want it to last for
>awhile, like the life of the computer, get a solidly built one. If
>you're a bit sloppy on your behavior (not powering down before swapping
>drives) then get a hotswap bay as it will disconnect power as you eject
>the drive before disconnecting the signal pins. You buy one docking bay
>(to put in a drive bay in your case that has an external face, not an
>internal bay) and multiple caddies in which you install the drives.
>Then you swap the drives when you want to switch the OS. I like
>hardware solutions over software workarounds.

You've given me a lot to think about. Thanks.

[micky[_2_]]

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Fri, 11 Sep 2015 19:35:14
-0400, Paul > wrote:

>micky wrote:
>> I like to use Hibernate, but when I start up again after using
>> Hibernate, unhibernating is the only option I have. It's not even an
>> option, it just starts doing it.
>>
>> Is there any way to to first show my mulit-boot menu and if I pick the
>> hibernated choice, to unhibernate? And if I pick something else, for
>> the hibernate file to remain unused until I come back to that choice/
>> partition?
>>
>> When I google about this, almost all the hits bring up Ubuntu. Is that
>> because those are the people who most often want dual boot?
>>
>>
>> If my question is clear, skip this paragraph If my question is
>> not clear, FWLIW, here's my question written by someone else, but the
>> only response brings up Ubuntu and a bunch of words I don't understand.
>> http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=33105
>
>I can't promise anything, but try the following.
>
>1) Boot WinXP.
>2) select the shutdown (by hibernation) option.
> Wait for the machine to go silent.
>3) Now, power off at the back of the system. The idea being,
> maybe the hibernate bit will be forgotten if the power is
> removed.

Do you really think that's a possibility? Maybe it will forget all the
other bits too?

>4) Now start up. Does the BIOS now accept new inputs ?
> Instead of just loading the hibernated OS from hiberfile automatically ?
>
>Note that Linux will not mount a hibernated C:. So if you
>dual boot Ubuntu and WinXP, hibernate WinXP, work some sorta
>magic to get around the hibernate bit, then boot into Ubuntu,
>that Ubuntu will throw up a dialog if you click the WinXP
>partition in the Ubuntu file manager.
>
>If you boot WinXP later, the OS is supposed to be smart
>enough to check the hiberfil.sys and realize a hibernation
>is in progress. It should load the hiberfile as a result,
>and not do a fresh boot and fresh session.

I think the hiberfil is there even when hibernate has not been done.
It's there right now and hibernating has been completed, the computer is
awake. And if I restart without hibernating, the file will still be
there after the restart. There is probably some use for this file, but
I havent' thought of it.
>
>The quickest solution, is not to use hibernate on the WinXP
>in the first place.

This is something like saying if your car is broken, the quickest
solution is to do without a car.

This is not your typical post, Paul. Either your brother is posting
for you, or you had a lot of wine during dinnner, ddin't you?

<grin>

> If you're multi-booting, shut down one
>OS completely, before running the other.
>
>HTH,
> Paul

[VanguardLH[_2_]]

micky wrote:

> No, it's 16 seconds. And when I Turn Off or Shut Down, then I have no
> trouble seeing the menu when I restart.

Hmm, the only method I can think of that would check if there was a
hiberfil.sys file and use it instead of presenting the boot menu (that
has multiple entries listed within) is the OS partition's boot loader
looking for hiberfil.sys before it looks for boot.ini. So you're
screwed by Microsoft when using their dual-boot scheme. You are using a
boot manager that has embedded special provisions.

A way to get around that is not to use Microsoft's scheme and instead
put the boot manager further back in MBR bootstrap code. You use the
boot manager to pick which partition's boot sector to find that OS' boot
loader. You don't go loading the OS' own boot loader and then have it
show you a list of choices unless there was a hiberfil.sys file.

All a simple boot manager does (that usurps the MBR bootstrap code) is
to let you pick which partition to look for an OS boot loader in that
partition's boot sector. So the Windows partition's boot loader doesn't
get used as the boot manager (unless you pick that partition and if you
have multiple partitions listed in boot.ini - but then you don't need a
frankenjob boot manager if your using a good one back in the MBR). If
Windows' boot loader is not used (you pick a different partition to load
its boot sector's boot loader program) then doesn't use the boot.ini or
hiberfil.sys in another partition. You move the boot managing back to
the MBR bootstrap section *before* loading ANY part of an OS.

I never liked Microsoft's boot manager scheme: first load a bit of
Windows (the OS' own boot loader in sector 0) to read boot.ini to then
select which OS to load. This is like having to walk into your
neighbor's house before you can determine which house, even your own,
that you really wanted to enter. Yeah, that would go over well with
your neighbor. If I'm multi-booting, I want to use a boot manager that
is not part of any OS and not even in any partition. OS independent and
partition independent. However, I like better to swap drives to swap
OSes. Keeps me from picking the wrong OS (which is not only from a user
error during selection but can be caused if partitions are moved around)
and prevents an OS from peeking into other same-OS partitions and itself
or malware from altering the OSes on the other drives. Hardware
isolation is better than hoping an OS and malware can't touch other
drives.

If you have enough drive bays, and enough internal (mobo) drive ports,
and instead of having to buy a docking bay to swap drives, you could
leave all the drives inside the case and even let them spin up but only
have a single drive accessible to anything (you, another OS, malware).
Boot into the BIOS and disable the mobo port to which the drives are
attached and only enable the mobo port for the drive you want to boot an
OS. If the controller or port are disabled then the drive(s) connected
to it are unreachable. You use the BIOS config as a soft switch as to
which drive you want accessible. That does mean the nuisance of going
into the BIOS to change settings but it's already there so cheaper than
buying docking bay(s).

[micky[_2_]]

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 00:46:20
-0500, VanguardLH > wrote:

>micky wrote:
>
>> No, it's 16 seconds. And when I Turn Off or Shut Down, then I have no
>> trouble seeing the menu when I restart.
>
>Hmm, the only method I can think of that would check if there was a
>hiberfil.sys file and use it instead of presenting the boot menu (that
>has multiple entries listed within) is the OS partition's boot loader
>looking for hiberfil.sys before it looks for boot.ini. So you're
>screwed by Microsoft when using their dual-boot scheme. You are using a
>boot manager that has embedded special provisions.

Yeah, that's what came with XP.

I'm going to move one of the external drives to the inside and then I
can use Boot Order to decide which OS to use when I have hibernated in
the other OS. Maybe I'll still be able to use the boot menu when I
haven't hibernated in either one.

More about this in other threads.

Thanks for your advice below. well, snipped.

Micky

[B00ze[_2_]]

On 2015-09-11 16:18, micky > wrote:

> I like to use Hibernate, but when I start up again after using
> Hibernate, unhibernating is the only option I have. It's not even an
> option, it just starts doing it.
>
> Is there any way to to first show my mulit-boot menu and if I pick the
> hibernated choice, to unhibernate? And if I pick something else, for
> the hibernate file to remain unused until I come back to that choice/
> partition?

[snip]

One thing no one has mentioned (I'm surprised Paul didn't mention this,
he did, to me, in the past) but which is crucial, is that if you want to
multi-boot AND hibernate, you must make sure that your other OSes do NOT
access any of the partitions that are <hibernated>. If they do and
change things, then when you wake-up the OS that's in hibernation, it
will assume that none of the partitions have changed, and mess things
up. If you run Windoze 8+ you have to disable "Hybrid Sleep" for the
same reason.

Best Regards,

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain /
! (o o) Member-+-David-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/Planetary-Society-+-
oO-( )-Oo Virus detected, delete Windoze? (Y/y).