USB 3.1 ???

[T]

Anyone get to play with USB 3.1 yet?

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2858883/the-future-is-now-the-most-amazing-tech-that-became-real-in-2014.html#slide8

[Paul]

T wrote:
> Anyone get to play with USB 3.1 yet?
>
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2858883/the-future-is-now-the-most-amazing-tech-that-became-real-in-2014.html#slide8
>

If available, it's a "hood ornament".

It's just a disruption for the sake of
disrupting things. Think what a mess "Type C"
will make of the I/O plate on desktop computers.

And is it enabling some "new capabilities" ?

All it will mean, is some SSD drive runs 50MB/sec
faster when placed in a USB 3.1 enclosure or docking station.

Give it two or three years, and maybe we can have
a meaningful conversation about it.

For a guy like you, it'll be yet another
connector that "isn't compatible with USB2" :-)

*******

Read the customer reviews here.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132509

"ASM1142 USB 3.1"

"Pros: 1st commercially available motherboard with USB 3.1.

Cons: The provided ASMedia ASM1142 USB 3.1 controller drivers
(1.16.23.0 from 12/24/2014) are problematic. There is a
working fix available, search Google for "Plugable ASMedia 3.1"
and a link to their blog post should be the first hit.

The solution is to roll back to a slightly older ASMedia driver.
"

HTH,
Paul

[T]

On 03/14/2015 11:31 PM, Paul wrote:
> If available, it's a "hood ornament".
>
> It's just a disruption for the sake of
> disrupting things. Think what a mess "Type C"
> will make of the I/O plate on desktop computers.
>
> And is it enabling some "new capabilities" ?
>
> All it will mean, is some SSD drive runs 50MB/sec
> faster when placed in a USB 3.1 enclosure or docking station.
>
> Give it two or three years, and maybe we can have
> a meaningful conversation about it.
>
> For a guy like you, it'll be yet another
> connector that "isn't compatible with USB2" :-)

Hi Paul,

I like the way it looks on paper, but paper and
reality are two separate things. I like the 100 watts.

Apple's new mac book is using it, apparently for video too:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/2895958/laptop-computers/5-everyday-technologies-apple-killed-in-the-12-inch-macbook.html

-T

[Paul]

T wrote:
> On 03/14/2015 11:31 PM, Paul wrote:
>> If available, it's a "hood ornament".
>>
>> It's just a disruption for the sake of
>> disrupting things. Think what a mess "Type C"
>> will make of the I/O plate on desktop computers.
>>
>> And is it enabling some "new capabilities" ?
>>
>> All it will mean, is some SSD drive runs 50MB/sec
>> faster when placed in a USB 3.1 enclosure or docking station.
>>
>> Give it two or three years, and maybe we can have
>> a meaningful conversation about it.
>>
>> For a guy like you, it'll be yet another
>> connector that "isn't compatible with USB2" :-)
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> I like the way it looks on paper, but paper and
> reality are two separate things. I like the 100 watts.
>
> Apple's new mac book is using it, apparently for video too:
>
> http://www.infoworld.com/article/2895958/laptop-computers/5-everyday-technologies-apple-killed-in-the-12-inch-macbook.html
>
>
> -T

We already had an example of "video" by Apple the other day.

A poster tells me his Apple product, has an "HDMI" output.
Turns out, I got the pinout, and there is no HDMI. There
is USB. And apparently the OS is capable of extracting
some movie or video content you're playing, and send it
down the USB cable, to a USB-to-HDMI dongle you've purchased.
It gives them complete control over the content - no worries
about movie pirating, since the information source
is curated.

Yeah, now tell me what kind of "video" capability this
Mac will have. It won't be the "VGA connector on the side
of my laptop" kind of video. It won't be a mirror copy of the
screen. It'll be whatever little video snippet they choose
to give you. Nicely curated and playing attention to any DRM
and "Do Not Copy" bits etc. No need for HDCP, when there is
nothing to steal. A black screen if you try.

So it will be a video capability, in name only.

Paul

[Roderick Stewart]

On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 17:24:32 -0700, T > wrote:

>Anyone get to play with USB 3.1 yet?
>
>http://www.pcworld.com/article/2858883/the-future-is-now-the-most-amazing-tech-that-became-real-in-2014.html#slide8

Once this is released, there will be lots of very similar looking but
different plugs and sockets in circulation, some reversible and some
not, which means some physically compatible and some not, which means
even more ways of getting it wrong. That's standards for you.

Rod.

[Bill[_40_]]

In message >, Roderick
Stewart > writes
>Once this is released, there will be lots of very similar looking but
>different plugs and sockets in circulation, some reversible and some
>not, which means some physically compatible and some not, which means
>even more ways of getting it wrong. That's standards for you.

But if it really can carry 20amps (100watts @ 5v), it will be the one
that glows in the dark and smells of burning.
--
Bill

[Andy Burns[_3_]]

Bill wrote:

> if it really can carry 20amps (100watts @ 5v)

3A @ 5V, up to 5A @ 20V by negotiation ...

[T]

On 03/15/2015 12:00 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>> if it really can carry 20amps (100watts @ 5v)
>
> 3A @ 5V, up to 5A @ 20V by negotiation ...
>
>

Hi Andy,

Thank you for that clarification!

You mean I don't get to arc weld with USB 3.1? :-)

-T

[T]

On 03/15/2015 12:00 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>> if it really can carry 20amps (100watts @ 5v)
>
> 3A @ 5V, up to 5A @ 20V by negotiation ...
>
>

Thinking about this. With all the push to cheapen things
down, I can see this going really wrong.

[Gene E. Bloch[_2_]]

On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 12:55:50 -0700, T wrote:

> On 03/15/2015 12:00 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>
>>> if it really can carry 20amps (100watts @ 5v)
>>
>> 3A @ 5V, up to 5A @ 20V by negotiation ...
>>
>>
>
> Thinking about this. With all the push to cheapen things
> down, I can see this going really wrong.

Like what?

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

[T]

On 03/16/2015 01:39 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 12:55:50 -0700, T wrote:
>
>> On 03/15/2015 12:00 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Bill wrote:
>>>
>>>> if it really can carry 20amps (100watts @ 5v)
>>>
>>> 3A @ 5V, up to 5A @ 20V by negotiation ...
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Thinking about this. With all the push to cheapen things
>> down, I can see this going really wrong.
>
> Like what?
>

Improper negotiation because someone cheeped out on
parts and excess voltage being applied to something.

One of those thing were the spec works, but did you
spend the money and follow the spec?

[philo]

On 03/14/2015 07:24 PM, T wrote:
> Anyone get to play with USB 3.1 yet?
>
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2858883/the-future-is-now-the-most-amazing-tech-that-became-real-in-2014.html#slide8
>






The dumbest thing about USB was simply plugging it in.

The reversibility seems like a bigger breakthrough than the speed.

[Slimer]

On 2015-03-17 7:55 PM, philo wrote:
> On 03/14/2015 07:24 PM, T wrote:
>> Anyone get to play with USB 3.1 yet?
>>
>> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2858883/the-future-is-now-the-most-amazing-tech-that-became-real-in-2014.html#slide8
>>
> The dumbest thing about USB was simply plugging it in.
>
> The reversibility seems like a bigger breakthrough than the speed.

Agreed. It's a shame that it breaks compatibility though.

--
Slimer
OpenMedia, GreenPeace Supporter & SPCA Paw Partner
Encrypt.

[philo]

On 03/18/2015 09:22 AM, Slimer wrote:
> On 2015-03-17 7:55 PM, philo wrote:
>> On 03/14/2015 07:24 PM, T wrote:
>>> Anyone get to play with USB 3.1 yet?
>>>
>>> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2858883/the-future-is-now-the-most-amazing-tech-that-became-real-in-2014.html#slide8
>>>
>>>
>> The dumbest thing about USB was simply plugging it in.
>>
>> The reversibility seems like a bigger breakthrough than the speed.
>
> Agreed. It's a shame that it breaks compatibility though.
>



Since it's new, I will probably not be using it for a few years.

[T]

On 03/18/2015 11:08 AM, philo wrote:
> On 03/18/2015 09:22 AM, Slimer wrote:
>> On 2015-03-17 7:55 PM, philo wrote:
>>> On 03/14/2015 07:24 PM, T wrote:
>>>> Anyone get to play with USB 3.1 yet?
>>>>
>>>> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2858883/the-future-is-now-the-most-amazing-tech-that-became-real-in-2014.html#slide8
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The dumbest thing about USB was simply plugging it in.
>>>
>>> The reversibility seems like a bigger breakthrough than the speed.
>>
>> Agreed. It's a shame that it breaks compatibility though.
>>
>
>
>
> Since it's new, I will probably not be using it for a few years.


Seems to me like is will be "adapter hell" for a few years too

[philo]

On 03/18/2015 01:53 PM, T wrote:

>>>>>
>>>> The dumbest thing about USB was simply plugging it in.
>>>>
>>>> The reversibility seems like a bigger breakthrough than the speed.
>>>
>>> Agreed. It's a shame that it breaks compatibility though.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Since it's new, I will probably not be using it for a few years.
>
>
> Seems to me like is will be "adapter hell" for a few years too



So far I am only now slowly converting to USB 3.0

[T]

On 03/18/2015 12:10 PM, philo wrote:
> On 03/18/2015 01:53 PM, T wrote:
>
>>>>>>
>>>>> The dumbest thing about USB was simply plugging it in.
>>>>>
>>>>> The reversibility seems like a bigger breakthrough than the speed.
>>>>
>>>> Agreed. It's a shame that it breaks compatibility though.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Since it's new, I will probably not be using it for a few years.
>>
>>
>> Seems to me like is will be "adapter hell" for a few years too
>
>
>
> So far I am only now slowly converting to USB 3.0

I love the extra current. No more worrying about burning
our motherboards from over current on USB devices.

And I love the extra speed.

I don't love that some USB2 devices won't work on
USB3, such as APC's UPS data cables.

[philo]

On 03/18/2015 02:42 PM, T wrote:
>
>>
>> So far I am only now slowly converting to USB 3.0
>
> I love the extra current. No more worrying about burning
> our motherboards from over current on USB devices.
>


Theoretically the mobo would not burn out...it's simply a matter of the
current being regulated not to exceed 500ma.

That said: not all mobos are equal. I have an external USB hard drive
that has two USB connections as it requires over 500 ma.


It works fine on some of my machines but not on others.


> And I love the extra speed.
>
> I don't love that some USB2 devices won't work on
> USB3, such as APC's UPS data cables.



Yep I've seen that too.

Not all of my USB 2 devices will work on a USB3 connection

[T]

On 03/18/2015 12:49 PM, philo wrote:
>> I love the extra current. No more worrying about burning
>> our motherboards from over current on USB devices.
>>
>
>
> Theoretically the mobo would not burn out...it's simply a matter of the
> current being regulated not to exceed 500ma.
>
> That said: not all mobos are equal. I have an external USB hard drive
> that has two USB connections as it requires over 500 ma.
>
>
> It works fine on some of my machines but not on others.

Hi Philo,

You are correct in theory. In practice, no one will pay
the extra 1/2 cent for decent sized traces to handle the
current and circuitry to log out over load offenders.
From what I can tell, it is 400ma combined max on
all the ports. And you burn one port out, you burn them
all out.

To cope with this, I like to add a powered (directly from
the power supply) "front panel hub" (Star Tech or Siig).
I tell my customer's it is their "abuse it ports".
They can plug their iPhone and whatever else they want into
it for charging etc..

So far so good. I have only lost one front panel hub.
But it did its job and protected the motherboard. (This
customer was abusive of his equipment, so it was expected.)

Had one customer who liked to jog at lunch to work off
stress. He liked to listen to music while he tormented
himself (jogging). So, his family chipped in for his
birthday and got him an iPod. He didn't read the directions
that said not to charge it off a computer. He burned out
*ALL* the USB ports on his laptop. Then, without asking me,
he brought it to Best Buy for repair. He did not realize
that laptops are no longer repaired. They are replaced.
Got back a brand new laptop with a brand new hard drive.
He lost everything, including a lot of sensitive customer
data. (I remove the hard drives before letting the customer
return for replacement.) Yikes all the way around.

Have you heard of a disease called CABDs? (Cheap Asses
Buzzard Disease. The "B" might not stand for "Buzzard".)
Causes so many USB problems.

-T

[philo]

On 03/18/2015 03:03 PM, T wrote:
> O
> Hi Philo,
>
> You are correct in theory. In practice, no one will pay
> the extra 1/2 cent for decent sized traces to handle the
> current and circuitry to log out over load offenders.
> From what I can tell, it is 400ma combined max on
> all the ports. And you burn one port out, you burn them
> all out.
>
> To cope with this, I like to add a powered (directly from
> the power supply) "front panel hub" (Star Tech or Siig).
> I tell my customer's it is their "abuse it ports".
> They can plug their iPhone and whatever else they want into
> it for charging etc..
>
> So far so good. I have only lost one front panel hub.
> But it did its job and protected the motherboard. (This
> customer was abusive of his equipment, so it was expected.)
>
> Had one customer who liked to jog at lunch to work off
> stress. He liked to listen to music while he tormented
> himself (jogging). So, his family chipped in for his
> birthday and got him an iPod. He didn't read the directions
> that said not to charge it off a computer. He burned out
> *ALL* the USB ports on his laptop. Then, without asking me,
> he brought it to Best Buy for repair. He did not realize
> that laptops are no longer repaired. They are replaced.
> Got back a brand new laptop with a brand new hard drive.
> He lost everything, including a lot of sensitive customer
> data. (I remove the hard drives before letting the customer
> return for replacement.) Yikes all the way around.
>
> Have you heard of a disease called CABDs? (Cheap Asses
> Buzzard Disease. The "B" might not stand for "Buzzard".)
> Causes so many USB problems.
>
> -T
>


Well, so far none of the people I deal with have burned out USB ports...


From what I've seen , they might not be able to be able to plug in a
USB device

[Slimer]

On 2015-03-18 2:08 PM, philo wrote:
> On 03/18/2015 09:22 AM, Slimer wrote:
>> On 2015-03-17 7:55 PM, philo wrote:
>>> On 03/14/2015 07:24 PM, T wrote:
>>>> Anyone get to play with USB 3.1 yet?
>>>>
>>>> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2858883/the-future-is-now-the-most-amazing-tech-that-became-real-in-2014.html#slide8
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The dumbest thing about USB was simply plugging it in.
>>>
>>> The reversibility seems like a bigger breakthrough than the speed.
>>
>> Agreed. It's a shame that it breaks compatibility though.
>>
> Since it's new, I will probably not be using it for a few years.

As you shouldn't. It's nice that there's a new port but until a lot of
devices which take advantage of it come out, it won't be too useful...
kind of like Thunderbolt.

Considering how USB 1.1. 2.0 and 3.0 made sure to retain compatibility
and therefore ensured that USB became ubiquitous, I can imagine that 3.1
will have a hard time gaining in popularity.

--
Slimer
OpenMedia, GreenPeace Supporter & SPCA Paw Partner
Encrypt.

[T]

On 03/18/2015 02:16 PM, philo wrote:
> On 03/18/2015 03:03 PM, T wrote:
>> O
>> Hi Philo,
>>
>> You are correct in theory. In practice, no one will pay
>> the extra 1/2 cent for decent sized traces to handle the
>> current and circuitry to log out over load offenders.
>> From what I can tell, it is 400ma combined max on
>> all the ports. And you burn one port out, you burn them
>> all out.
>>
>> To cope with this, I like to add a powered (directly from
>> the power supply) "front panel hub" (Star Tech or Siig).
>> I tell my customer's it is their "abuse it ports".
>> They can plug their iPhone and whatever else they want into
>> it for charging etc..
>>
>> So far so good. I have only lost one front panel hub.
>> But it did its job and protected the motherboard. (This
>> customer was abusive of his equipment, so it was expected.)
>>
>> Had one customer who liked to jog at lunch to work off
>> stress. He liked to listen to music while he tormented
>> himself (jogging). So, his family chipped in for his
>> birthday and got him an iPod. He didn't read the directions
>> that said not to charge it off a computer. He burned out
>> *ALL* the USB ports on his laptop. Then, without asking me,
>> he brought it to Best Buy for repair. He did not realize
>> that laptops are no longer repaired. They are replaced.
>> Got back a brand new laptop with a brand new hard drive.
>> He lost everything, including a lot of sensitive customer
>> data. (I remove the hard drives before letting the customer
>> return for replacement.) Yikes all the way around.
>>
>> Have you heard of a disease called CABDs? (Cheap Asses
>> Buzzard Disease. The "B" might not stand for "Buzzard".)
>> Causes so many USB problems.
>>
>> -T
>>
>
>
> Well, so far none of the people I deal with have burned out USB ports...
>
>
> From what I've seen , they might not be able to be able to plug in a
> USB device


Did you see my write up on PCIe USB cards over on the W7
usenet? I had a lot (ha ha) of fun trying to find a card that
worked right.

-T

[philo]

On 03/18/2015 05:24 PM, T wrote:
> dw laptop with a brand new hard drive.
>>> He lost everything, including a lot of sensitive customer
>>> data. (I remove the hard drives before letting the customer
>>> return for replacement.) Yikes all the way around.
>>>
>>> Have you heard of a disease called CABDs? (Cheap Asses
>>> Buzzard Disease. The "B" might not stand for "Buzzard".)
>>> Causes so many USB problems.
>>>
>>> -T
>>>
>>
>>
>> Well, so far none of the people I deal with have burned out USB ports...
>>
>>
>> From what I've seen , they might not be able to be able to plug in a
>> USB device
>
>
> Did you see my write up on PCIe USB cards over on the W7
> usenet? I had a lot (ha ha) of fun trying to find a card that
> worked right.
>
> -T



I might have seen that. So far, in all the machines I work on I've never
had to add a PCIe USB card.

If I get a really old machine it's more a matter of adding a PCI USB-2
card...but most machines that old, have been phased out by now.

[philo]

On 03/18/2015 04:50 PM, Slimer wrote:
>
>>>> The reversibility seems like a bigger breakthrough than the speed.
>>>
>>> Agreed. It's a shame that it breaks compatibility though.
>>>
>> Since it's new, I will probably not be using it for a few years.
>
> As you shouldn't. It's nice that there's a new port but until a lot of
> devices which take advantage of it come out, it won't be too useful...
> kind of like Thunderbolt.
>
> Considering how USB 1.1. 2.0 and 3.0 made sure to retain compatibility
> and therefore ensured that USB became ubiquitous, I can imagine that 3.1
> will have a hard time gaining in popularity.
>


OTOH: When it comes to backing up large amounts of data, at least USB
3.0 will come in handly

[G. Morgan[_7_]]

T wrote:

>Anyone get to play with USB 3.1 yet?
>
>http://www.pcworld.com/article/2858883/the-future-is-now-the-most-amazing-tech-that-became-real-in-2014.html#slide8


It's called USB "C" I thought. And no, the OEM's are not done configuring
which services they will offer with it at first. I know HP is going to limit
theirs to 15W for the 1st year. I don't know if they are going to include HD
video & audio with it this year yet.

[G. Morgan[_7_]]

Paul wrote:

>Give it two or three years, and maybe we can have
>a meaningful conversation about it.

Yep, we'll be seeing nothing exciting this year come from it. It will be able
to "quick charge" a cell phone though. Whoopee!

[Paul]

G. Morgan wrote:
> T wrote:
>
>> Anyone get to play with USB 3.1 yet?
>>
>> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2858883/the-future-is-now-the-most-amazing-tech-that-became-real-in-2014.html#slide8
>
>
> It's called USB "C" I thought. And no, the OEM's are not done configuring
> which services they will offer with it at first. I know HP is going to limit
> theirs to 15W for the 1st year. I don't know if they are going to include HD
> video & audio with it this year yet.

The Type-C connector is quite flexible.

http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/type-c-pinout-980x735.png

It has enough pins for a four pin USB2 as well as a five pin USB3 section.
So logically, it has the same pins available as an existing blue USB3
connector port on your computer.

Using the connector, I could build a computer and offer on the type C:

1) Just USB2
2) USB2 + USB3.0 (if prototype USB3.1 host chips aren't available)
3) USB2 + USB3.1 (fanboi version, first enthusiast motherboards with it)

It will support the same old negotiation phases, so if no USB3
pins touch or are available, it can run as plain old USB2. The USB2
part should always work. What they do with the other pins, is adjustable.
You could even have a special adapter cable, that just disconnects any
of the USB3 diff pair connections, to "force" USB2. Or maybe adapter
dongles will be available, "Type-C to USB2 only" dongle. It's a possibility.

HTH,
Paul

[T]

On 03/27/2015 04:24 AM, G. Morgan wrote:
> T wrote:
>
>> Anyone get to play with USB 3.1 yet?
>>
>> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2858883/the-future-is-now-the-most-amazing-tech-that-became-real-in-2014.html#slide8
>
>
> It's called USB "C" I thought. And no, the OEM's are not done configuring
> which services they will offer with it at first. I know HP is going to limit
> theirs to 15W for the 1st year. I don't know if they are going to include HD
> video & audio with it this year yet.
>
>
>
>

My understanding was that the spec was called "USB 3.1" and
the connector that took advantage of it was a "USB C"
connector. I could be wrong.

[Gene E. Bloch[_2_]]

On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 16:06:12 -0700, T wrote:

> On 03/27/2015 04:24 AM, G. Morgan wrote:
>> T wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone get to play with USB 3.1 yet?
>>>
>>> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2858883/the-future-is-now-the-most-amazing-tech-that-became-real-in-2014.html#slide8
>>
>>
>> It's called USB "C" I thought. And no, the OEM's are not done configuring
>> which services they will offer with it at first. I know HP is going to limit
>> theirs to 15W for the 1st year. I don't know if they are going to include HD
>> video & audio with it this year yet.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> My understanding was that the spec was called "USB 3.1" and
> the connector that took advantage of it was a "USB C"
> connector. I could be wrong.

Well, I agree with you - and what could be better proof than that?

:-)

Notice too that Paul in his post refers to the Type C connector and USB
3.1 and others being offered on a type C.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)