Why Mozilla calls this Windows 10 feature 'very disturbing'

[Johnny]

Why Mozilla calls this Windows 10 feature 'very disturbing'
By David Goldman @DavidGoldmanCNN

Reviews of Windows 10 have been glowing, but one prominent tech CEO is
giving it a big thumbs down.

Upgrading to Windows 10 will automatically make Microsoft Edge your
PC's default Web browser, even if you used a different browser when
your PC was running Windows 7 or Windows 8. You can make Mozilla
Firefox, Google (GOOGL, Tech30) Chrome, Apple (AAPL, Tech30) Safari or
another app your default browser in Windows 10, but it's not as easy or
intuitive to do that as it was in previous versions of Windows.

In an open letter to Microsoft (MSFT, Tech30) CEO Satya Nadella,
Mozilla chief Chris Beard called that new browser experience "very
disturbing."

"The update experience appears to have been designed to throw away the
choice your customers have made about the Internet experience they
want, and replace it with the Internet experience Microsoft wants them
to have," Beard wrote.

Cut!

Mozilla's Beard said that he reached out to Microsoft's Windows team
when it discovered that Edge was automatically set to the default
browser, but that meeting "didn't result in any meaningful progress."
Although Beard said he appreciates that it's still possible to choose a
different default browser in Windows 10, he laments that the settings
"been changed to make this less obvious and more difficult."

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/31/technology/windows10-mozilla-letter/index.html

That seems to be Microsoft's goal, to make things less obvious and more
difficult, so they can collect more information about their customers.

Wouldn't it be nice to actually buy and own and operating system, that
didn't spy on you and collect personal information, and allow you to
have complete control of that operating system?

https://www.osdisc.com/products/linux/linuxmint?affiliate=linuxmint

[Roger Blake[_2_]]

On 2015-07-31, Johnny > wrote:
> Wouldn't it be nice to actually buy and own and operating system, that
> didn't spy on you and collect personal information, and allow you to
> have complete control of that operating system?
>
> https://www.osdisc.com/products/linux/linuxmint?affiliate=linuxmint

People with a broadband connection (at least one that's not expensively
metered) don't need to buy any discs, Linux distributions are freely
downloadable. Mint is probably a good choice for a neophyte -- Slackware
would be a bit much to deal with! To download Mint one would simply go to:

http://www.linuxmint.com/download.php

It's something home users might want to investigate if they are feeling
adventurous. You can try a live CD/DVD or flash drive without modifying
your Windows installation.

Unfortunately this is not an option for most businesses, they're locked
into Windows by required applications. For some a Mac might be an option,
but even that is problematical for many. That's the reality.

I've used Linux as my primary OS since the late 1990s (worked with Unix
since the 1970s) and it works great for me, but I have no need of any
application or service that runs only on Windows. (I must be one of the
last people on the planet who has never used Microsoft Office.) I work
with a lot of businesses though and it would be very difficult for them
to change platforms. They don't care about the operating system, they
just need to be able to run the applications that they require. If the
underlying OS becomes spyware they'll turn a blind eye out of necessity.

Today there's a choice, stick with Windows 7 or 8.x. In years to come
that will not be possible as support evaporates and most are forced
to Microsoft's new platform, which by that time will no doubt have become
even more invasive. We are only witnessing the opening salvos with the
initial release of Windows 10.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Johnny]

On Fri, 31 Jul 2015 15:08:53 +0000 (UTC)
Roger Blake > wrote:

> On 2015-07-31, Johnny > wrote:
> > Wouldn't it be nice to actually buy and own and operating system,
> > that didn't spy on you and collect personal information, and allow
> > you to have complete control of that operating system?
> >
> > https://www.osdisc.com/products/linux/linuxmint?affiliate=linuxmint
>
> People with a broadband connection (at least one that's not
> expensively metered) don't need to buy any discs, Linux distributions
> are freely downloadable. Mint is probably a good choice for a
> neophyte -- Slackware would be a bit much to deal with! To download
> Mint one would simply go to:
>
> http://www.linuxmint.com/download.php
>
> It's something home users might want to investigate if they are
> feeling adventurous. You can try a live CD/DVD or flash drive without
> modifying your Windows installation.
>
> Unfortunately this is not an option for most businesses, they're
> locked into Windows by required applications. For some a Mac might be
> an option, but even that is problematical for many. That's the
> reality.
>
> I've used Linux as my primary OS since the late 1990s (worked with
> Unix since the 1970s) and it works great for me, but I have no need
> of any application or service that runs only on Windows. (I must be
> one of the last people on the planet who has never used Microsoft
> Office.) I work with a lot of businesses though and it would be very
> difficult for them to change platforms. They don't care about the
> operating system, they just need to be able to run the applications
> that they require. If the underlying OS becomes spyware they'll turn
> a blind eye out of necessity.
>
> Today there's a choice, stick with Windows 7 or 8.x. In years to come
> that will not be possible as support evaporates and most are forced
> to Microsoft's new platform, which by that time will no doubt have
> become even more invasive. We are only witnessing the opening salvos
> with the initial release of Windows 10.
>

I know companies are going to use what is best for them, and that makes
me wonder if Microsoft sells them a different version of Windows that
doesn't spy on them. I can't imagine a company like Dupont using an
operating system that could gain access to its trade secrets.

I don't think Microsoft's main concern is making money, they have
plenty. I think it's about control, and they will have complete
control, when Windows 7 and 8 are phased out, and they require a
Microsoft account to install the operating system.

Linux Mint would be perfect for anyone that uses their computer for
entertainment, shopping, banking online, and Email.

[Al Drake]

On 7/31/2015 11:43 AM, Johnny wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Jul 2015 15:08:53 +0000 (UTC)
> Roger Blake > wrote:
>
>> On 2015-07-31, Johnny > wrote:
>>> Wouldn't it be nice to actually buy and own and operating system,
>>> that didn't spy on you and collect personal information, and allow
>>> you to have complete control of that operating system?
>>>
>>> https://www.osdisc.com/products/linux/linuxmint?affiliate=linuxmint
>>
>> People with a broadband connection (at least one that's not
>> expensively metered) don't need to buy any discs, Linux distributions
>> are freely downloadable. Mint is probably a good choice for a
>> neophyte -- Slackware would be a bit much to deal with! To download
>> Mint one would simply go to:
>>
>> http://www.linuxmint.com/download.php
>>
>> It's something home users might want to investigate if they are
>> feeling adventurous. You can try a live CD/DVD or flash drive without
>> modifying your Windows installation.
>>
>> Unfortunately this is not an option for most businesses, they're
>> locked into Windows by required applications. For some a Mac might be
>> an option, but even that is problematical for many. That's the
>> reality.
>>
>> I've used Linux as my primary OS since the late 1990s (worked with
>> Unix since the 1970s) and it works great for me, but I have no need
>> of any application or service that runs only on Windows. (I must be
>> one of the last people on the planet who has never used Microsoft
>> Office.) I work with a lot of businesses though and it would be very
>> difficult for them to change platforms. They don't care about the
>> operating system, they just need to be able to run the applications
>> that they require. If the underlying OS becomes spyware they'll turn
>> a blind eye out of necessity.
>>
>> Today there's a choice, stick with Windows 7 or 8.x. In years to come
>> that will not be possible as support evaporates and most are forced
>> to Microsoft's new platform, which by that time will no doubt have
>> become even more invasive. We are only witnessing the opening salvos
>> with the initial release of Windows 10.
>>
>
> I know companies are going to use what is best for them, and that makes
> me wonder if Microsoft sells them a different version of Windows that
> doesn't spy on them. I can't imagine a company like Dupont using an
> operating system that could gain access to its trade secrets.
>
> I don't think Microsoft's main concern is making money, they have
> plenty. I think it's about control, and they will have complete
> control, when Windows 7 and 8 are phased out, and they require a
> Microsoft account to install the operating system.
>
> Linux Mint would be perfect for anyone that uses their computer for
> entertainment, shopping, banking online, and Email.
>
>

I'm sure secure companies like the one I work for will have a way of
blocking them.

[Roger Blake[_2_]]

On 2015-07-31, Johnny > wrote:
> I know companies are going to use what is best for them, and that makes
> me wonder if Microsoft sells them a different version of Windows that
> doesn't spy on them. I can't imagine a company like Dupont using an
> operating system that could gain access to its trade secrets.

Possibly the "Enterprise" edition is like this. The "Pro" version that
is targeted to small/medium-sized businesses seems every bit as invasive
as the home version.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Vitalic]

On 7/31/2015 10:06 AM, Johnny wrote:
> Why Mozilla calls this Windows 10 feature 'very disturbing'
> By David Goldman @DavidGoldmanCNN
>
> Reviews of Windows 10 have been glowing, but one prominent tech CEO is
> giving it a big thumbs down.
>
> Upgrading to Windows 10 will automatically make Microsoft Edge your
> PC's default Web browser, even if you used a different browser when
> your PC was running Windows 7 or Windows 8. You can make Mozilla
> Firefox, Google (GOOGL, Tech30) Chrome, Apple (AAPL, Tech30) Safari or
> another app your default browser in Windows 10, but it's not as easy or
> intuitive to do that as it was in previous versions of Windows.
>
> In an open letter to Microsoft (MSFT, Tech30) CEO Satya Nadella,
> Mozilla chief Chris Beard called that new browser experience "very
> disturbing."
>
> "The update experience appears to have been designed to throw away the
> choice your customers have made about the Internet experience they
> want, and replace it with the Internet experience Microsoft wants them
> to have," Beard wrote.
>
> Cut!
>
> Mozilla's Beard said that he reached out to Microsoft's Windows team
> when it discovered that Edge was automatically set to the default
> browser, but that meeting "didn't result in any meaningful progress."
> Although Beard said he appreciates that it's still possible to choose a
> different default browser in Windows 10, he laments that the settings
> "been changed to make this less obvious and more difficult."
>
> http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/31/technology/windows10-mozilla-letter/index.html
>
> That seems to be Microsoft's goal, to make things less obvious and more
> difficult, so they can collect more information about their customers.
>
> Wouldn't it be nice to actually buy and own and operating system, that
> didn't spy on you and collect personal information, and allow you to
> have complete control of that operating system?
>
> https://www.osdisc.com/products/linux/linuxmint?affiliate=linuxmint
>

oh Jesus H. Christ Mozilla, it takes less than a minute to change the
default browser, mediaplayer, etc..

[VanguardLH[_2_]]

Johnny wrote:

> Upgrading to Windows 10 will automatically make Microsoft Edge your
> PC's default Web browser ... You can make [other web browser] your
> default browser in Windows 10, but it's not as easy or intuitive to
> do that as it was in previous versions of Windows.

So how does a user change the default web browser in Windows 10?

http://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-set-default-programs-in-windows-10/#!

So back in Win7 you used the Default Programs applet. Oh, what a
horrific event that in Win10 you use a differently named sub-app called
Default Apps.

Guess everyone reading that article, and especially those that wrote it,
forgot how Microsoft made it much more difficult to do tweaks by having
to wade through wizards compared back in Windows XP. Trying to find
those tweaks ever since Vista is a hell of a lot more work then using
using Program Defaults or Default Apps to change an association.

Just Mozilla whining again that Microsoft doesn't give precedence in
design to a non-Microsoft company. Wow, what a surprise. Mozilla must
really be worried that Win10 users are going to migrate away from
Firefox in droves just because Edge is the default in a Windows install.

When installing Firefox, the *default* setting for "Use Firefox as my
default web browser" is ENABLED. So Mozilla is not being fair to
Microsoft, Google, Apple, or anyone else because, gee, they also default
to their web browser as the default. Aw, poor Mozilla, tit for tat.
Mozilla's Firefox installation defaults to them being the default web
browser. Google's Chrome installation defaults to them being the default
web browser. Microsoft's installation default to them being the default
web browser. Wow, what a phucking surprise ... not.

Yeah, sure, like users want an inquiry regarding EVERY phucking change
made by an OS install. You really think if Microsoft presented a list
of thousands of checkboxes that users would actually review all those
changes?

What happens when Mozilla doesn't get their way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izTIqUSDcR8

[A.M]

On 2015-07-31 2:54 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> Johnny wrote:
>
>> Upgrading to Windows 10 will automatically make Microsoft Edge your
>> PC's default Web browser ... You can make [other web browser] your
>> default browser in Windows 10, but it's not as easy or intuitive to
>> do that as it was in previous versions of Windows.
>
> So how does a user change the default web browser in Windows 10?
>
> http://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-set-default-programs-in-windows-10/#!
>
> So back in Win7 you used the Default Programs applet. Oh, what a
> horrific event that in Win10 you use a differently named sub-app called
> Default Apps.
>
> Guess everyone reading that article, and especially those that wrote it,
> forgot how Microsoft made it much more difficult to do tweaks by having
> to wade through wizards compared back in Windows XP. Trying to find
> those tweaks ever since Vista is a hell of a lot more work then using
> using Program Defaults or Default Apps to change an association.
>
> Just Mozilla whining again that Microsoft doesn't give precedence in
> design to a non-Microsoft company. Wow, what a surprise. Mozilla must
> really be worried that Win10 users are going to migrate away from
> Firefox in droves just because Edge is the default in a Windows install.
>
> When installing Firefox, the *default* setting for "Use Firefox as my
> default web browser" is ENABLED. So Mozilla is not being fair to
> Microsoft, Google, Apple, or anyone else because, gee, they also default
> to their web browser as the default. Aw, poor Mozilla, tit for tat.
> Mozilla's Firefox installation defaults to them being the default web
> browser. Google's Chrome installation defaults to them being the default
> web browser. Microsoft's installation default to them being the default
> web browser. Wow, what a phucking surprise ... not.
>
> Yeah, sure, like users want an inquiry regarding EVERY phucking change
> made by an OS install. You really think if Microsoft presented a list
> of thousands of checkboxes that users would actually review all those
> changes?
>
> What happens when Mozilla doesn't get their way:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izTIqUSDcR8

I'm mostly stunned by the reaction the privacy settings. _ALL_ of them
can be turned off but as a user who usually keeps them on, I have to
admit that the Internet experience across devices is a lot more
interesting than without. If I am forced to watch an ad, I'm happy that
the ad is about something I am actually interested in. If I seem to have
an interesting for American soccer, I'm glad that it points me to deals
for MLS jerseys and such. As long as I am not identified by name, I'm fine.

The only concern I have is with Outlook.com, OneDrive and Skype. Now
that we _know_ that those three services are constantly monitored
through PRISM, it's a good idea to move away from them and either set up
a GnuPG on some private account to encrypt or simply use an offshore
e-mail server which supports encryption. THAT bothers me because it goes
into specifics AND we are identified. Windows 10's insistence that we
use their services is fairly alarming to me.


--
A.M

[Roderick Stewart]

On Fri, 31 Jul 2015 16:08:33 -0400, "A.M" > wrote:

>I'm mostly stunned by the reaction the privacy settings. _ALL_ of them
>can be turned off but as a user who usually keeps them on, I have to
>admit that the Internet experience across devices is a lot more
>interesting than without. If I am forced to watch an ad, I'm happy that
>the ad is about something I am actually interested in. If I seem to have
>an interesting for American soccer, I'm glad that it points me to deals
>for MLS jerseys and such. As long as I am not identified by name, I'm fine.

Congratulations. You're just the sort of customer Microsoft want.

But how do you know you're not identified by name? How do you know
where your name or other identifying information is kept, how securely
it's kept, where it's sent, and who has access to it?

Rod.

[- Bobb -[_2_]]

"Roger Blake" > wrote in message
...
> On 2015-07-31, Johnny > wrote:
>> I know companies are going to use what is best for them, and that makes
>> me wonder if Microsoft sells them a different version of Windows that
>> doesn't spy on them. I can't imagine a company like Dupont using an
>> operating system that could gain access to its trade secrets.
>
> Possibly the "Enterprise" edition is like this. The "Pro" version that
> is targeted to small/medium-sized businesses seems every bit as invasive
> as the home version.



The "Pro" version allows the OS to connect to a network domain.
Client/server... Otherwise - same thing.

Re security. More concerned about lack of security on GOVT machines than
Dupont. Dupont has people hired due to their knowledge of networking,
whereas government managers... if public has no REASON to access a machine
then the public should not be able to REACH the machine. I'm sure DuPont
knows that. Seems that the govt doesn't


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus