Regarding Free Windows 10 for 12 Months

[Keith]

The Windows 10 icon on my task bar has gone through "Reserve" to, just now
"Get W10" and I get a report saying, basically,my laptop is "Good to go"
and there is no Guest account in W10 (I don't use it so it's irrelevant.
But, another nugget appeared:

"Why did I see a notification that I won't be able to restore factory settings?

You'll see this message if the manufacturer set up your PC to run from a
compressed Windows image file and included an option to restore factory settings.
After the upgrade, you won’t be able to restore factory settings, but other
recovery options will be available."

I'm running on a small Sony Vaio, no DVD and I expect that (I've had to use
it once) "restore factory settings" runs from a compressed image file.
Are the "other recovery options will be available." available?

I do use Macrium Reflect (free) to write image files to my NAS - will they
be usable after 'upgrading' to W10?

[Ed Cryer]

Keith wrote:
> The Windows 10 icon on my task bar has gone through "Reserve" to, just
> now "Get W10" and I get a report saying, basically,my laptop is "Good to
> go" and there is no Guest account in W10 (I don't use it so it's
> irrelevant. But, another nugget appeared:
>
> "Why did I see a notification that I won't be able to restore factory
> settings?
>
> You'll see this message if the manufacturer set up your PC to run from a
> compressed Windows image file and included an option to restore factory
> settings. After the upgrade, you won’t be able to restore factory
> settings, but other recovery options will be available."
>
> I'm running on a small Sony Vaio, no DVD and I expect that (I've had to
> use it once) "restore factory settings" runs from a compressed image file.
> Are the "other recovery options will be available." available?
>
> I do use Macrium Reflect (free) to write image files to my NAS - will
> they be usable after 'upgrading' to W10?
>
>

I had the same when I put Win10 on my tablet. The thing that you'll
appreciate is that it offers me a return to Win8.1.
The removal of "factory settings" is occasioned by space limitations on
the HD. It's rather like on Android phones where "factory settings"
doesn't mean what it says on the can (space limitations prevents them
including an image of the original set-up).

After installing Win10 you have a month to restore.
And the Macrium Reflect images will be utilisable. Make sure you have a
Macrium restore disc.

Ed

[Al Drake]

On 8/8/2015 1:28 PM, Keith wrote:
> The Windows 10 icon on my task bar has gone through "Reserve" to, just
> now "Get W10" and I get a report saying, basically,my laptop is "Good to
> go" and there is no Guest account in W10 (I don't use it so it's
> irrelevant. But, another nugget appeared:
>
> "Why did I see a notification that I won't be able to restore factory
> settings?
>
> You'll see this message if the manufacturer set up your PC to run from a
> compressed Windows image file and included an option to restore factory
> settings. After the upgrade, you won’t be able to restore factory
> settings, but other recovery options will be available."
>
> I'm running on a small Sony Vaio, no DVD and I expect that (I've had to
> use it once) "restore factory settings" runs from a compressed image file.
> Are the "other recovery options will be available." available?
>
> I do use Macrium Reflect (free) to write image files to my NAS - will
> they be usable after 'upgrading' to W10?
>
>
All I can recommend is that before anyone go forward with an upgrade
to windows 10 is to clone the original drive. It's much easier and
straightforward than trying an image that may or may not restore. I just
removed my SSD upgraded to W10 and placed it with the original W7 SSD
and everything is as it was before I started. It couldn't be simpler.

[Paul]

Al Drake wrote:
> On 8/8/2015 1:28 PM, Keith wrote:
>> The Windows 10 icon on my task bar has gone through "Reserve" to, just
>> now "Get W10" and I get a report saying, basically,my laptop is "Good to
>> go" and there is no Guest account in W10 (I don't use it so it's
>> irrelevant. But, another nugget appeared:
>>
>> "Why did I see a notification that I won't be able to restore factory
>> settings?
>>
>> You'll see this message if the manufacturer set up your PC to run from a
>> compressed Windows image file and included an option to restore factory
>> settings. After the upgrade, you won’t be able to restore factory
>> settings, but other recovery options will be available."
>>
>> I'm running on a small Sony Vaio, no DVD and I expect that (I've had to
>> use it once) "restore factory settings" runs from a compressed image
>> file.
>> Are the "other recovery options will be available." available?
>>
>> I do use Macrium Reflect (free) to write image files to my NAS - will
>> they be usable after 'upgrading' to W10?
>>
>>
> All I can recommend is that before anyone go forward with an upgrade to
> windows 10 is to clone the original drive. It's much easier and
> straightforward than trying an image that may or may not restore. I just
> removed my SSD upgraded to W10 and placed it with the original W7 SSD
> and everything is as it was before I started. It couldn't be simpler.

An image will restore, if you do it the right way.

With Macrium Reflect Free, you would

1) Install it on Windows.
2) Run it. Make a rescue CD, the WinPE flavored one.
Macrium 6 even shows a dialog listing the hardware
drivers included for the *custom* machine-specific CD.
3) Shut down Windows.
4) Boot the rescue CD you just made. Macrium still
has clone and image as options in the rescue CD
version. Everything useful you could do in Windows,
can be done from the CD.
5) Make an image of the internal hard drive, to the
external storage device. (So at this time, Windows
is not running, and the Rescue CD is your "OS".)
Doing so, proves you have the drivers necessary
at a future date, to connect the external drive
and do a restore operation.
6) If the rescue CD did not work for any reason,
now is the time to fix it. Before any damage is
done.
7) For bonus points, you can practice restoring to
one of your spare disks. As if your internal drive
had failed, and you were installing a new blank drive.

HTH,
Paul

[. . .winston]

Ed Cryer wrote on 08/08/2015 1:45 PM:
> Keith wrote:
>> The Windows 10 icon on my task bar has gone through "Reserve" to, just
>> now "Get W10" and I get a report saying, basically,my laptop is "Good to
>> go" and there is no Guest account in W10 (I don't use it so it's
>> irrelevant. But, another nugget appeared:
>>
>> "Why did I see a notification that I won't be able to restore factory
>> settings?
>>
>> You'll see this message if the manufacturer set up your PC to run from a
>> compressed Windows image file and included an option to restore factory
>> settings. After the upgrade, you won’t be able to restore factory
>> settings, but other recovery options will be available."
>>
>> I'm running on a small Sony Vaio, no DVD and I expect that (I've had to
>> use it once) "restore factory settings" runs from a compressed image
>> file.
>> Are the "other recovery options will be available." available?
>>
>> I do use Macrium Reflect (free) to write image files to my NAS - will
>> they be usable after 'upgrading' to W10?
>>
>>
>
> I had the same when I put Win10 on my tablet. The thing that you'll
> appreciate is that it offers me a return to Win8.1.
> The removal of "factory settings" is occasioned by space limitations on
> the HD. It's rather like on Android phones where "factory settings"
> doesn't mean what it says on the can (space limitations prevents them
> including an image of the original set-up).
>
> After installing Win10 you have a month to restore.
> And the Macrium Reflect images will be utilisable. Make sure you have a
> Macrium restore disc.
>
> Ed
>
After installing Win10 you have a month to restore **using the 'Go Back'
Win10 included feature. After a month the 'Go Back' option will not be
available since Win10 will automatically purge the files it retained for
performing the 'Go Back'

The inability to use the 'Go Back' feature does not preempt the ability
to use other restore type methods (Recovery disks provided by the OEM or
created by the user to return the device to factory condition, 3rd party
imaging tool that created a backup image to external media or different
drive prior to the upgrade, Windows 8.1 included Backup/Restore System
Image created on external media/different drive prior to the upgrade, etc.)



--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience

[Al Drake]

On 8/8/2015 3:01 PM, Paul wrote:
> Al Drake wrote:
>> On 8/8/2015 1:28 PM, Keith wrote:
>>> The Windows 10 icon on my task bar has gone through "Reserve" to, just
>>> now "Get W10" and I get a report saying, basically,my laptop is "Good to
>>> go" and there is no Guest account in W10 (I don't use it so it's
>>> irrelevant. But, another nugget appeared:
>>>
>>> "Why did I see a notification that I won't be able to restore factory
>>> settings?
>>>
>>> You'll see this message if the manufacturer set up your PC to run from a
>>> compressed Windows image file and included an option to restore factory
>>> settings. After the upgrade, you won’t be able to restore factory
>>> settings, but other recovery options will be available."
>>>
>>> I'm running on a small Sony Vaio, no DVD and I expect that (I've had to
>>> use it once) "restore factory settings" runs from a compressed image
>>> file.
>>> Are the "other recovery options will be available." available?
>>>
>>> I do use Macrium Reflect (free) to write image files to my NAS - will
>>> they be usable after 'upgrading' to W10?
>>>
>>>
>> All I can recommend is that before anyone go forward with an upgrade
>> to windows 10 is to clone the original drive. It's much easier and
>> straightforward than trying an image that may or may not restore. I
>> just removed my SSD upgraded to W10 and placed it with the original W7
>> SSD and everything is as it was before I started. It couldn't be simpler.
>
> An image will restore, if you do it the right way.
>
> With Macrium Reflect Free, you would
>
> 1) Install it on Windows.
> 2) Run it. Make a rescue CD, the WinPE flavored one.
> Macrium 6 even shows a dialog listing the hardware
> drivers included for the *custom* machine-specific CD.
> 3) Shut down Windows.
> 4) Boot the rescue CD you just made. Macrium still
> has clone and image as options in the rescue CD
> version. Everything useful you could do in Windows,
> can be done from the CD.
> 5) Make an image of the internal hard drive, to the
> external storage device. (So at this time, Windows
> is not running, and the Rescue CD is your "OS".)
> Doing so, proves you have the drivers necessary
> at a future date, to connect the external drive
> and do a restore operation.
> 6) If the rescue CD did not work for any reason,
> now is the time to fix it. Before any damage is
> done.
> 7) For bonus points, you can practice restoring to
> one of your spare disks. As if your internal drive
> had failed, and you were installing a new blank drive.
>
> HTH,
> Paul

Thanks Paul. I have successfully gone the image route but my favorite
is still the clone. On all my builds I always make sure it's very easy
to swap drives from one bay to another. The system I use the most is in
an InWin case that has a drive door on the side:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811108395

I can put any drive I want in the number one bay and boot from it.

All the other cases are almost as easy to swap drives. The down side
is you spend more on spare SSDs but I've been getting larger ones
regularly so I have plenty to spare. It doesn't take long to replace a
backup drive.

On one system that isn't as easy to swap I keep the backup mounted so
all I need do is swap cables leaving the backup unplugged.(Windows
Unplugged)

I was considering mounting a switch somewhere but that would be just
to easy.

[SC Tom[_3_]]

". . .winston" > wrote in message
...
> Ed Cryer wrote on 08/08/2015 1:45 PM:
>> Keith wrote:
>>> The Windows 10 icon on my task bar has gone through "Reserve" to, just
>>> now "Get W10" and I get a report saying, basically,my laptop is "Good to
>>> go" and there is no Guest account in W10 (I don't use it so it's
>>> irrelevant. But, another nugget appeared:
>>>
>>> "Why did I see a notification that I won't be able to restore factory
>>> settings?
>>>
>>> You'll see this message if the manufacturer set up your PC to run from a
>>> compressed Windows image file and included an option to restore factory
>>> settings. After the upgrade, you won’t be able to restore factory
>>> settings, but other recovery options will be available."
>>>
>>> I'm running on a small Sony Vaio, no DVD and I expect that (I've had to
>>> use it once) "restore factory settings" runs from a compressed image
>>> file.
>>> Are the "other recovery options will be available." available?
>>>
>>> I do use Macrium Reflect (free) to write image files to my NAS - will
>>> they be usable after 'upgrading' to W10?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I had the same when I put Win10 on my tablet. The thing that you'll
>> appreciate is that it offers me a return to Win8.1.
>> The removal of "factory settings" is occasioned by space limitations on
>> the HD. It's rather like on Android phones where "factory settings"
>> doesn't mean what it says on the can (space limitations prevents them
>> including an image of the original set-up).
>>
>> After installing Win10 you have a month to restore.
>> And the Macrium Reflect images will be utilisable. Make sure you have a
>> Macrium restore disc.
>>
>> Ed
>>
> After installing Win10 you have a month to restore **using the 'Go Back'
> Win10 included feature. After a month the 'Go Back' option will not be
> available since Win10 will automatically purge the files it retained for
> performing the 'Go Back'
>
> The inability to use the 'Go Back' feature does not preempt the ability to
> use other restore type methods (Recovery disks provided by the OEM or
> created by the user to return the device to factory condition, 3rd party
> imaging tool that created a backup image to external media or different
> drive prior to the upgrade, Windows 8.1 included Backup/Restore System
> Image created on external media/different drive prior to the upgrade,
> etc.)
>
I think the question on that would be, if you restore from image after 30
days, will your newly restored old OS be able to be activated now that
Microsoft already has that system as being upgraded to Win10? Since it
hasn't been 30 days since it was released, the jury seems to still be out on
that verdict :-)
--
SC Tom

[. . .winston]

SC Tom wrote on 08/08/2015 6:36 PM:
>
>
> ". . .winston" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Ed Cryer wrote on 08/08/2015 1:45 PM:
>>> Keith wrote:
>>>> The Windows 10 icon on my task bar has gone through "Reserve" to, just
>>>> now "Get W10" and I get a report saying, basically,my laptop is
>>>> "Good to
>>>> go" and there is no Guest account in W10 (I don't use it so it's
>>>> irrelevant. But, another nugget appeared:
>>>>
>>>> "Why did I see a notification that I won't be able to restore factory
>>>> settings?
>>>>
>>>> You'll see this message if the manufacturer set up your PC to run
>>>> from a
>>>> compressed Windows image file and included an option to restore factory
>>>> settings. After the upgrade, you won’t be able to restore factory
>>>> settings, but other recovery options will be available."
>>>>
>>>> I'm running on a small Sony Vaio, no DVD and I expect that (I've had to
>>>> use it once) "restore factory settings" runs from a compressed image
>>>> file.
>>>> Are the "other recovery options will be available." available?
>>>>
>>>> I do use Macrium Reflect (free) to write image files to my NAS - will
>>>> they be usable after 'upgrading' to W10?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I had the same when I put Win10 on my tablet. The thing that you'll
>>> appreciate is that it offers me a return to Win8.1.
>>> The removal of "factory settings" is occasioned by space limitations on
>>> the HD. It's rather like on Android phones where "factory settings"
>>> doesn't mean what it says on the can (space limitations prevents them
>>> including an image of the original set-up).
>>>
>>> After installing Win10 you have a month to restore.
>>> And the Macrium Reflect images will be utilisable. Make sure you have a
>>> Macrium restore disc.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>> After installing Win10 you have a month to restore **using the 'Go
>> Back' Win10 included feature. After a month the 'Go Back' option will
>> not be available since Win10 will automatically purge the files it
>> retained for performing the 'Go Back'
>>
>> The inability to use the 'Go Back' feature does not preempt the
>> ability to use other restore type methods (Recovery disks provided by
>> the OEM or created by the user to return the device to factory
>> condition, 3rd party imaging tool that created a backup image to
>> external media or different drive prior to the upgrade, Windows 8.1
>> included Backup/Restore System Image created on external
>> media/different drive prior to the upgrade, etc.)
>>
> I think the question on that would be, if you restore from image after
> 30 days, will your newly restored old OS be able to be activated now
> that Microsoft already has that system as being upgraded to Win10? Since
> it hasn't been 30 days since it was released, the jury seems to still be
> out on that verdict :-)

The sheer presence of the GoBack feature and the ability to return to
the prior and activated o/s used to upgrade to 10 is the reassurance
that the reverting to the prior o/s will yield an activated prior
o/s....i.e. if it didn't then GoBack would not be included
(Think about it <g>) - it's really easy to deduce.

The 30 day limit and purging the files is central to a system status
changing over time..thus as time moves forward, the benefit to 'Go Back'
to o/s condition at the time of upgrade becomes less meaningful.

The ability to revert to a prior o/s with an activated license is
statistically independent of the Win10 upgrade and the license and
device footprint retained in the MSFT Store.

The jury won't even be seated...




--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience

[Keith]

Hello Ed,

> Keith wrote:
>
>> The Windows 10 icon on my task bar has gone through "Reserve" to,
>> just now "Get W10" and I get a report saying, basically,my laptop is
>> "Good to go" and there is no Guest account in W10 (I don't use it so
>> it's irrelevant. But, another nugget appeared:
>>
>> "Why did I see a notification that I won't be able to restore factory
>> settings?
>>
>> You'll see this message if the manufacturer set up your PC to run
>> from a compressed Windows image file and included an option to
>> restore factory settings. After the upgrade, you won’t be able to
>> restore factory settings, but other recovery options will be
>> available."
>>
>> I'm running on a small Sony Vaio, no DVD and I expect that (I've had
>> to use it once) "restore factory settings" runs from a compressed
>> image file. Are the "other recovery options will be available."
>> available?
>>
>> I do use Macrium Reflect (free) to write image files to my NAS - will
>> they be usable after 'upgrading' to W10?
>>
> I had the same when I put Win10 on my tablet. The thing that you'll
> appreciate is that it offers me a return to Win8.1.
> The removal of "factory settings" is occasioned by space limitations
> on
> the HD. It's rather like on Android phones where "factory settings"
> doesn't mean what it says on the can (space limitations prevents them
> including an image of the original set-up).
> After installing Win10 you have a month to restore.
> And the Macrium Reflect images will be utilisable. Make sure you have
> a
> Macrium restore disc.
> Ed
>

I have the "Restore" on a memory stck: no integral/external DVD and the (home)
network/Windows Explorer link I had to the desktop PC's DVD went belly-up
long ago - SWMBO did something to the desktop and there seems to be confusion
between Homegroup/Workgroup and memory stick became a short term(!) solution.

[Keith]

Hello Paul,
<Snip>
>>>
>> All I can recommend is that before anyone go forward with an upgrade
>> to windows 10 is to clone the original drive. It's much easier and
>> straightforward than trying an image that may or may not restore. I
>> just removed my SSD upgraded to W10 and placed it with the original
>> W7 SSD and everything is as it was before I started. It couldn't be
>> simpler.
>>
> An image will restore, if you do it the right way.
>
> With Macrium Reflect Free, you would
>
> 1) Install it on Windows.
> 2) Run it. Make a rescue CD, the WinPE flavored one.
> Macrium 6 even shows a dialog listing the hardware
> drivers included for the *custom* machine-specific CD.
> 3) Shut down Windows.
> 4) Boot the rescue CD you just made. Macrium still
> has clone and image as options in the rescue CD
> version. Everything useful you could do in Windows,
> can be done from the CD.
> 5) Make an image of the internal hard drive, to the
> external storage device. (So at this time, Windows
> is not running, and the Rescue CD is your "OS".)
> Doing so, proves you have the drivers necessary
> at a future date, to connect the external drive
> and do a restore operation.
> 6) If the rescue CD did not work for any reason,
> now is the time to fix it. Before any damage is
> done.
> 7) For bonus points, you can practice restoring to
> one of your spare disks. As if your internal drive
> had failed, and you were installing a new blank drive.
> HTH,
> Paul

So would replacing CD" with "memory stick" work?

[Roderick Stewart]

On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 18:36:00 -0400, "SC Tom" > wrote:

>> The inability to use the 'Go Back' feature does not preempt the ability to
>> use other restore type methods (Recovery disks provided by the OEM or
>> created by the user to return the device to factory condition, 3rd party
>> imaging tool that created a backup image to external media or different
>> drive prior to the upgrade, Windows 8.1 included Backup/Restore System
>> Image created on external media/different drive prior to the upgrade,
>> etc.)
>>
>I think the question on that would be, if you restore from image after 30
>days, will your newly restored old OS be able to be activated now that
>Microsoft already has that system as being upgraded to Win10? Since it
>hasn't been 30 days since it was released, the jury seems to still be out on
>that verdict :-)

My understanding is that the upgrade gets a new activation key.
As long as you re-activate the original operating system with its
original key, I don't see why it shouldn't work as before.

I would advise anyone considering upgrading to Windows 10 to make a
note of their existing activation key before they start. (Use
keyfinder. The product ID on the system screen is not the key).

This reasoning depends on logic of course. As we've seen, Microsoft
moves in mysterious ways, so time will tell. Hopefully somebody will
try it and report here, and then we'll know.

Rod.

[SC Tom[_3_]]

". . .winston" > wrote in message
...
> SC Tom wrote on 08/08/2015 6:36 PM:
>>
>>
>> ". . .winston" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Ed Cryer wrote on 08/08/2015 1:45 PM:
>>>> Keith wrote:
>>>>> The Windows 10 icon on my task bar has gone through "Reserve" to, just
>>>>> now "Get W10" and I get a report saying, basically,my laptop is
>>>>> "Good to
>>>>> go" and there is no Guest account in W10 (I don't use it so it's
>>>>> irrelevant. But, another nugget appeared:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Why did I see a notification that I won't be able to restore factory
>>>>> settings?
>>>>>
>>>>> You'll see this message if the manufacturer set up your PC to run
>>>>> from a
>>>>> compressed Windows image file and included an option to restore
>>>>> factory
>>>>> settings. After the upgrade, you won’t be able to restore factory
>>>>> settings, but other recovery options will be available."
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm running on a small Sony Vaio, no DVD and I expect that (I've had
>>>>> to
>>>>> use it once) "restore factory settings" runs from a compressed image
>>>>> file.
>>>>> Are the "other recovery options will be available." available?
>>>>>
>>>>> I do use Macrium Reflect (free) to write image files to my NAS - will
>>>>> they be usable after 'upgrading' to W10?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I had the same when I put Win10 on my tablet. The thing that you'll
>>>> appreciate is that it offers me a return to Win8.1.
>>>> The removal of "factory settings" is occasioned by space limitations on
>>>> the HD. It's rather like on Android phones where "factory settings"
>>>> doesn't mean what it says on the can (space limitations prevents them
>>>> including an image of the original set-up).
>>>>
>>>> After installing Win10 you have a month to restore.
>>>> And the Macrium Reflect images will be utilisable. Make sure you have a
>>>> Macrium restore disc.
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>>
>>> After installing Win10 you have a month to restore **using the 'Go
>>> Back' Win10 included feature. After a month the 'Go Back' option will
>>> not be available since Win10 will automatically purge the files it
>>> retained for performing the 'Go Back'
>>>
>>> The inability to use the 'Go Back' feature does not preempt the
>>> ability to use other restore type methods (Recovery disks provided by
>>> the OEM or created by the user to return the device to factory
>>> condition, 3rd party imaging tool that created a backup image to
>>> external media or different drive prior to the upgrade, Windows 8.1
>>> included Backup/Restore System Image created on external
>>> media/different drive prior to the upgrade, etc.)
>>>
>> I think the question on that would be, if you restore from image after
>> 30 days, will your newly restored old OS be able to be activated now
>> that Microsoft already has that system as being upgraded to Win10? Since
>> it hasn't been 30 days since it was released, the jury seems to still be
>> out on that verdict :-)
>
> The sheer presence of the GoBack feature and the ability to return to the
> prior and activated o/s used to upgrade to 10 is the reassurance that the
> reverting to the prior o/s will yield an activated prior o/s....i.e. if it
> didn't then GoBack would not be included
> (Think about it <g>) - it's really easy to deduce.

But you're still talking about being within the 30-day limit.

>
> The 30 day limit and purging the files is central to a system status
> changing over time..thus as time moves forward, the benefit to 'Go Back'
> to o/s condition at the time of upgrade becomes less meaningful.

OK, now you're at day35 (hypothetically), and the GoBack feature is
disabled, and the old OS files have been purged, so now there is no going
back using the Win10 feature. What happens if NOW you decide you don't like
Win10, and wipe the HDD with an image you made of your drive with the old
OS? Are you going to have an activated version of Win8.1 (assuming that's
where I started), or am I going to have to pay for it again? Since I
couldn't go back using the Win10 feature, AFA Microsoft knows, the Win10
upgrade is still active from the upgrade from Win8.1, and now they're both
supposedly installed/active. Will Microsoft's license servers be able to
eventually tell that, or am I going to be stuck with an "illegal" copy of
Win8.1? Since I upgraded from Win8.1 to Win10, wouldn't that
invalidate/de-activate my Win8.1 license?

>
> The ability to revert to a prior o/s with an activated license is
> statistically independent of the Win10 upgrade and the license and device
> footprint retained in the MSFT Store.
>
> The jury won't even be seated...
>

--
SC Tom

[Al Drake]

On 8/9/2015 7:00 AM, Keith wrote:
> Hello Paul,
> <Snip>
>>>>
>>> All I can recommend is that before anyone go forward with an upgrade
>>> to windows 10 is to clone the original drive. It's much easier and
>>> straightforward than trying an image that may or may not restore. I
>>> just removed my SSD upgraded to W10 and placed it with the original
>>> W7 SSD and everything is as it was before I started. It couldn't be
>>> simpler.
>>>
>> An image will restore, if you do it the right way.
>>
>> With Macrium Reflect Free, you would
>>
>> 1) Install it on Windows.
>> 2) Run it. Make a rescue CD, the WinPE flavored one.
>> Macrium 6 even shows a dialog listing the hardware
>> drivers included for the *custom* machine-specific CD.
>> 3) Shut down Windows.
>> 4) Boot the rescue CD you just made. Macrium still
>> has clone and image as options in the rescue CD
>> version. Everything useful you could do in Windows,
>> can be done from the CD.
>> 5) Make an image of the internal hard drive, to the
>> external storage device. (So at this time, Windows
>> is not running, and the Rescue CD is your "OS".)
>> Doing so, proves you have the drivers necessary
>> at a future date, to connect the external drive
>> and do a restore operation.
>> 6) If the rescue CD did not work for any reason,
>> now is the time to fix it. Before any damage is
>> done.
>> 7) For bonus points, you can practice restoring to
>> one of your spare disks. As if your internal drive
>> had failed, and you were installing a new blank drive.
>> HTH,
>> Paul
>
> So would replacing CD" with "memory stick" work?
>
>
If you run Macrium Reflect you will have the option to create image on
USB stick so I would say the answer would be yes.

To be sure I would take a test ride and see what happens. This is yet,
another reason I use clone. Much simpler, quicker and easy to test.

[Paul]

Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 18:36:00 -0400, "SC Tom" > wrote:
>
>>> The inability to use the 'Go Back' feature does not preempt the ability to
>>> use other restore type methods (Recovery disks provided by the OEM or
>>> created by the user to return the device to factory condition, 3rd party
>>> imaging tool that created a backup image to external media or different
>>> drive prior to the upgrade, Windows 8.1 included Backup/Restore System
>>> Image created on external media/different drive prior to the upgrade,
>>> etc.)
>>>
>> I think the question on that would be, if you restore from image after 30
>> days, will your newly restored old OS be able to be activated now that
>> Microsoft already has that system as being upgraded to Win10? Since it
>> hasn't been 30 days since it was released, the jury seems to still be out on
>> that verdict :-)
>
> My understanding is that the upgrade gets a new activation key.
> As long as you re-activate the original operating system with its
> original key, I don't see why it shouldn't work as before.
>
> I would advise anyone considering upgrading to Windows 10 to make a
> note of their existing activation key before they start. (Use
> keyfinder. The product ID on the system screen is not the key).
>
> This reasoning depends on logic of course. As we've seen, Microsoft
> moves in mysterious ways, so time will tell. Hopefully somebody will
> try it and report here, and then we'll know.
>
> Rod.

Here's how it works.

1) Pay $149 or $249 at Newegg, you get the usual
software, a COA sticker, a *unique* key. This is why
there is still a key input box, with no "Skip" below
the box, for the Newegg full-price buyers.

2) Win7SP1 or Win8.1 "free upgrade" users, when they
do their upgrade install by executing setup.exe or
equivalent, they get a "generic OEM key". Every person
who has done the free upgrade, reports the same
25 character key value.

If you take your MagicalJellYBean software, extract that
key, walk over to another computer and attempt to clean
install a copy of Win10 using that key, the key doesn't work.

How is activation managed ? Your Win7SP1 qualifying key, plus a
hardware hash (effectively your NIC MAC address) are uploaded
to Microsoft. In return, Microsoft sends an activation record
of some sort, back to the PC doing the upgrade. Now, it's activated.

That entry on the Microsoft server, is your "key". Any time
a machine with your exact hardware hash calls on the Microsoft
server, that activation record will be consulted.

This effectively *locks* the upgrade OS to that specific machine.
Even if your original OS was "retail" and can be legally moved
from one PC to another, the Win10 activation record in particular,
only applies to that one PC. If you move Win7 retail to a
second PC, install the Win10 upgrade, my guess is it would
invalidate the original activation record (against that
Win7 key).

For simplicity, I recommend viewing it as an "OEM" kind of
OS installation. As it will give you some idea what you can
expect to work, or not work.

You can clean reinstall Win10 after Aug2016, on that same PC,
because the activation record is still present. And still good
for that PC full of hardware. After Aug2016, if you manage to
invalidate that activation record (somehow), there would be
no way to get another installation of "free" Win10. So you
would "Go To (1)" above. So if you want to keep your "free"
Win10 after Aug2016, consider how fragile the setup is.
Maybe you shove a new video card in the machine and something
nasty happens. We won't know the "bomb wiring" on that one,
until Aug2016 rolls around.

The guy in (1) has nothing to worry about. Except for
being $XXX poorer.

Nobody in this story, should be *emailing* keys around.
That's how these phishing scams get started, by spreading
rumors that Strooge McDuck is giving away Free Money.

HTH,
Paul

[Char Jackson]

On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 04:14:19 -0400, ". . .winston" >
wrote:

>SC Tom wrote on 08/08/2015 6:36 PM:
>>
>>
>> ". . .winston" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Ed Cryer wrote on 08/08/2015 1:45 PM:
>>>> Keith wrote:
>>>>> The Windows 10 icon on my task bar has gone through "Reserve" to, just
>>>>> now "Get W10" and I get a report saying, basically,my laptop is
>>>>> "Good to
>>>>> go" and there is no Guest account in W10 (I don't use it so it's
>>>>> irrelevant. But, another nugget appeared:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Why did I see a notification that I won't be able to restore factory
>>>>> settings?
>>>>>
>>>>> You'll see this message if the manufacturer set up your PC to run
>>>>> from a
>>>>> compressed Windows image file and included an option to restore factory
>>>>> settings. After the upgrade, you won’t be able to restore factory
>>>>> settings, but other recovery options will be available."
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm running on a small Sony Vaio, no DVD and I expect that (I've had to
>>>>> use it once) "restore factory settings" runs from a compressed image
>>>>> file.
>>>>> Are the "other recovery options will be available." available?
>>>>>
>>>>> I do use Macrium Reflect (free) to write image files to my NAS - will
>>>>> they be usable after 'upgrading' to W10?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I had the same when I put Win10 on my tablet. The thing that you'll
>>>> appreciate is that it offers me a return to Win8.1.
>>>> The removal of "factory settings" is occasioned by space limitations on
>>>> the HD. It's rather like on Android phones where "factory settings"
>>>> doesn't mean what it says on the can (space limitations prevents them
>>>> including an image of the original set-up).
>>>>
>>>> After installing Win10 you have a month to restore.
>>>> And the Macrium Reflect images will be utilisable. Make sure you have a
>>>> Macrium restore disc.
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>>
>>> After installing Win10 you have a month to restore **using the 'Go
>>> Back' Win10 included feature. After a month the 'Go Back' option will
>>> not be available since Win10 will automatically purge the files it
>>> retained for performing the 'Go Back'
>>>
>>> The inability to use the 'Go Back' feature does not preempt the
>>> ability to use other restore type methods (Recovery disks provided by
>>> the OEM or created by the user to return the device to factory
>>> condition, 3rd party imaging tool that created a backup image to
>>> external media or different drive prior to the upgrade, Windows 8.1
>>> included Backup/Restore System Image created on external
>>> media/different drive prior to the upgrade, etc.)
>>>
>> I think the question on that would be, if you restore from image after
>> 30 days, will your newly restored old OS be able to be activated now
>> that Microsoft already has that system as being upgraded to Win10? Since
>> it hasn't been 30 days since it was released, the jury seems to still be
>> out on that verdict :-)
>
>The sheer presence of the GoBack feature and the ability to return to
>the prior and activated o/s used to upgrade to 10 is the reassurance
>that the reverting to the prior o/s will yield an activated prior
>o/s....i.e. if it didn't then GoBack would not be included
> (Think about it <g>) - it's really easy to deduce.

*During the 30 day period*, yes, it's really easy to deduce. ;-)

But the question was, what happens after that? What happens to the
qualifying license after windows.old is gone, using windows.old as the
marker for the end of the 30 day period. The answer to that question isn't
as easy to deduce, which is why the jury is out. We need to see the 30 day
period elapse to see what happens, since Microsoft hasn't said anything
meaningful on the topic.

>The ability to revert to a prior o/s with an activated license is
>statistically independent of the Win10 upgrade and the license and
>device footprint retained in the MSFT Store.

Exactly, and since MS hasn't provided concrete guidance, we're in a wait and
see mode.

[Char Jackson]

On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 09:11:54 -0400, Paul > wrote:

> How is activation managed ? Your Win7SP1 qualifying key, plus a
> hardware hash (effectively your NIC MAC address) are uploaded
> to Microsoft. In return, Microsoft sends an activation record
> of some sort, back to the PC doing the upgrade. Now, it's activated.
>
> That entry on the Microsoft server, is your "key". Any time
> a machine with your exact hardware hash calls on the Microsoft
> server, that activation record will be consulted.

Wouldn't it be funny if they used *only* the NIC MAC address, since that
piece of information is trivially easy to change/copy/clone/whatever. That
wasn't the case in the past though, and isn't likely to be the case now.
They'll use multiple pieces of information, probably with weighting factors,
so that minor changes can be accomplished without invalidating the license.

[Paul]

Char Jackson wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 09:11:54 -0400, Paul > wrote:
>
>> How is activation managed ? Your Win7SP1 qualifying key, plus a
>> hardware hash (effectively your NIC MAC address) are uploaded
>> to Microsoft. In return, Microsoft sends an activation record
>> of some sort, back to the PC doing the upgrade. Now, it's activated.
>>
>> That entry on the Microsoft server, is your "key". Any time
>> a machine with your exact hardware hash calls on the Microsoft
>> server, that activation record will be consulted.
>
> Wouldn't it be funny if they used *only* the NIC MAC address, since that
> piece of information is trivially easy to change/copy/clone/whatever. That
> wasn't the case in the past though, and isn't likely to be the case now.
> They'll use multiple pieces of information, probably with weighting factors,
> so that minor changes can be accomplished without invalidating the license.
>

We might discover more as time goes by, if say a user
changes out a video card, or changes RAM amount, and
something happens to their "free" Win10.

Maybe Microsoft's phone support for these kinds
of issues will be flawless. They could feel the same
degree of obligation as they would feel if dealing
with an activation issue for the qualifying OS,
so concerns about hardware configuration over
time aren't a big deal.

Paul

[Char Jackson]

On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 12:23:57 -0400, Paul > wrote:

>Char Jackson wrote:
>> On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 09:11:54 -0400, Paul > wrote:
>>
>>> How is activation managed ? Your Win7SP1 qualifying key, plus a
>>> hardware hash (effectively your NIC MAC address) are uploaded
>>> to Microsoft. In return, Microsoft sends an activation record
>>> of some sort, back to the PC doing the upgrade. Now, it's activated.
>>>
>>> That entry on the Microsoft server, is your "key". Any time
>>> a machine with your exact hardware hash calls on the Microsoft
>>> server, that activation record will be consulted.
>>
>> Wouldn't it be funny if they used *only* the NIC MAC address, since that
>> piece of information is trivially easy to change/copy/clone/whatever. That
>> wasn't the case in the past though, and isn't likely to be the case now.
>> They'll use multiple pieces of information, probably with weighting factors,
>> so that minor changes can be accomplished without invalidating the license.
>>
>
>We might discover more as time goes by, if say a user
>changes out a video card, or changes RAM amount, and
>something happens to their "free" Win10.
>
>Maybe Microsoft's phone support for these kinds
>of issues will be flawless. They could feel the same
>degree of obligation as they would feel if dealing
>with an activation issue for the qualifying OS,
>so concerns about hardware configuration over
>time aren't a big deal.

That's pretty optimistic. :-)

[mike[_10_]]

On 8/9/2015 6:56 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 04:14:19 -0400, ". . .winston" >
> wrote:
>
>> SC Tom wrote on 08/08/2015 6:36 PM:
>>>
>>>
>>> ". . .winston" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Ed Cryer wrote on 08/08/2015 1:45 PM:
>>>>> Keith wrote:
>>>>>> The Windows 10 icon on my task bar has gone through "Reserve" to, just
>>>>>> now "Get W10" and I get a report saying, basically,my laptop is
>>>>>> "Good to
>>>>>> go" and there is no Guest account in W10 (I don't use it so it's
>>>>>> irrelevant. But, another nugget appeared:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Why did I see a notification that I won't be able to restore factory
>>>>>> settings?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You'll see this message if the manufacturer set up your PC to run
>>>>>> from a
>>>>>> compressed Windows image file and included an option to restore factory
>>>>>> settings. After the upgrade, you won’t be able to restore factory
>>>>>> settings, but other recovery options will be available."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm running on a small Sony Vaio, no DVD and I expect that (I've had to
>>>>>> use it once) "restore factory settings" runs from a compressed image
>>>>>> file.
>>>>>> Are the "other recovery options will be available." available?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do use Macrium Reflect (free) to write image files to my NAS - will
>>>>>> they be usable after 'upgrading' to W10?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I had the same when I put Win10 on my tablet. The thing that you'll
>>>>> appreciate is that it offers me a return to Win8.1.
>>>>> The removal of "factory settings" is occasioned by space limitations on
>>>>> the HD. It's rather like on Android phones where "factory settings"
>>>>> doesn't mean what it says on the can (space limitations prevents them
>>>>> including an image of the original set-up).
>>>>>
>>>>> After installing Win10 you have a month to restore.
>>>>> And the Macrium Reflect images will be utilisable. Make sure you have a
>>>>> Macrium restore disc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed
>>>>>
>>>> After installing Win10 you have a month to restore **using the 'Go
>>>> Back' Win10 included feature. After a month the 'Go Back' option will
>>>> not be available since Win10 will automatically purge the files it
>>>> retained for performing the 'Go Back'
>>>>
>>>> The inability to use the 'Go Back' feature does not preempt the
>>>> ability to use other restore type methods (Recovery disks provided by
>>>> the OEM or created by the user to return the device to factory
>>>> condition, 3rd party imaging tool that created a backup image to
>>>> external media or different drive prior to the upgrade, Windows 8.1
>>>> included Backup/Restore System Image created on external
>>>> media/different drive prior to the upgrade, etc.)
>>>>
>>> I think the question on that would be, if you restore from image after
>>> 30 days, will your newly restored old OS be able to be activated now
>>> that Microsoft already has that system as being upgraded to Win10? Since
>>> it hasn't been 30 days since it was released, the jury seems to still be
>>> out on that verdict :-)
>>
>> The sheer presence of the GoBack feature and the ability to return to
>> the prior and activated o/s used to upgrade to 10 is the reassurance
>> that the reverting to the prior o/s will yield an activated prior
>> o/s....i.e. if it didn't then GoBack would not be included
>> (Think about it <g>) - it's really easy to deduce.
>
> *During the 30 day period*, yes, it's really easy to deduce. ;-)
>
> But the question was, what happens after that? What happens to the
> qualifying license after windows.old is gone, using windows.old as the
> marker for the end of the 30 day period. The answer to that question isn't
> as easy to deduce, which is why the jury is out. We need to see the 30 day
> period elapse to see what happens, since Microsoft hasn't said anything
> meaningful on the topic.
>
>> The ability to revert to a prior o/s with an activated license is
>> statistically independent of the Win10 upgrade and the license and
>> device footprint retained in the MSFT Store.
>
> Exactly, and since MS hasn't provided concrete guidance, we're in a wait and
> see mode.
>
Correct me if I'm wrong...
I have win7 installed by the vendor of the PC.
I have a license key that's the generic "activation not required"
key shared by
a zillion other devices from that vendor.
I upgraded to win 10.
If I go back to win7 by restoring a win7 image, how can they
invalidate my key? I don't think my system would even ask???
Yes?
No?

[. . .winston]

SC Tom wrote on 08/09/2015 8:09 AM:
>
>
> ". . .winston" > wrote in message

>>
>> The sheer presence of the GoBack feature and the ability to return to
>> the prior and activated o/s used to upgrade to 10 is the reassurance
>> that the reverting to the prior o/s will yield an activated prior
>> o/s....i.e. if it didn't then GoBack would not be included
>> (Think about it <g>) - it's really easy to deduce.
>
> But you're still talking about being within the 30-day limit.
>
Both apply...before and after. MSFT isn't always clear, but 'that is
the meaning'

>>
>> The 30 day limit and purging the files is central to a system status
>> changing over time..thus as time moves forward, the benefit to 'Go
>> Back' to o/s condition at the time of upgrade becomes less meaningful.
>
> OK, now you're at day35 (hypothetically), and the GoBack feature is
> disabled, and the old OS files have been purged, so now there is no
> going back using the Win10 feature. What happens if NOW you decide you
> don't like Win10, and wipe the HDD with an image you made of your drive
> with the old OS? Are you going to have an activated version of Win8.1
> (assuming that's where I started), or am I going to have to pay for it
> again?

Win 8.1 will remain activated. It's statistically independent (think
orthoganally). Upgrading does not preempt the existance of the
qualifying prior o/s license for use if 10 is removed. Remove
10....you're good to go on 8.1


Since I couldn't go back using the Win10 feature, AFA Microsoft
> knows, the Win10 upgrade is still active from the upgrade from Win8.1,
> and now they're both supposedly installed/active. Will Microsoft's
> license servers be able to eventually tell that, or am I going to be
> stuck with an "illegal" copy of Win8.1? Since I upgraded from Win8.1 to
> Win10, wouldn't that invalidate/de-activate my Win8.1 license?

Your license for 8.1 is valid (see above, remove 10, you're good to go
on 8.1)



--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience

[. . .winston]

Char Jackson wrote on 08/09/2015 9:56 AM:
> On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 04:14:19 -0400, ". . .winston" >
> wrote:
>
>> SC Tom wrote on 08/08/2015 6:36 PM:
>>>
>>>
>>> ". . .winston" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Ed Cryer wrote on 08/08/2015 1:45 PM:
>>>>> Keith wrote:
>>>>>> The Windows 10 icon on my task bar has gone through "Reserve" to, just
>>>>>> now "Get W10" and I get a report saying, basically,my laptop is
>>>>>> "Good to
>>>>>> go" and there is no Guest account in W10 (I don't use it so it's
>>>>>> irrelevant. But, another nugget appeared:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Why did I see a notification that I won't be able to restore factory
>>>>>> settings?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You'll see this message if the manufacturer set up your PC to run
>>>>>> from a
>>>>>> compressed Windows image file and included an option to restore factory
>>>>>> settings. After the upgrade, you won’t be able to restore factory
>>>>>> settings, but other recovery options will be available."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm running on a small Sony Vaio, no DVD and I expect that (I've had to
>>>>>> use it once) "restore factory settings" runs from a compressed image
>>>>>> file.
>>>>>> Are the "other recovery options will be available." available?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do use Macrium Reflect (free) to write image files to my NAS - will
>>>>>> they be usable after 'upgrading' to W10?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I had the same when I put Win10 on my tablet. The thing that you'll
>>>>> appreciate is that it offers me a return to Win8.1.
>>>>> The removal of "factory settings" is occasioned by space limitations on
>>>>> the HD. It's rather like on Android phones where "factory settings"
>>>>> doesn't mean what it says on the can (space limitations prevents them
>>>>> including an image of the original set-up).
>>>>>
>>>>> After installing Win10 you have a month to restore.
>>>>> And the Macrium Reflect images will be utilisable. Make sure you have a
>>>>> Macrium restore disc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed
>>>>>
>>>> After installing Win10 you have a month to restore **using the 'Go
>>>> Back' Win10 included feature. After a month the 'Go Back' option will
>>>> not be available since Win10 will automatically purge the files it
>>>> retained for performing the 'Go Back'
>>>>
>>>> The inability to use the 'Go Back' feature does not preempt the
>>>> ability to use other restore type methods (Recovery disks provided by
>>>> the OEM or created by the user to return the device to factory
>>>> condition, 3rd party imaging tool that created a backup image to
>>>> external media or different drive prior to the upgrade, Windows 8.1
>>>> included Backup/Restore System Image created on external
>>>> media/different drive prior to the upgrade, etc.)
>>>>
>>> I think the question on that would be, if you restore from image after
>>> 30 days, will your newly restored old OS be able to be activated now
>>> that Microsoft already has that system as being upgraded to Win10? Since
>>> it hasn't been 30 days since it was released, the jury seems to still be
>>> out on that verdict :-)
>>
>> The sheer presence of the GoBack feature and the ability to return to
>> the prior and activated o/s used to upgrade to 10 is the reassurance
>> that the reverting to the prior o/s will yield an activated prior
>> o/s....i.e. if it didn't then GoBack would not be included
>> (Think about it <g>) - it's really easy to deduce.
>
> *During the 30 day period*, yes, it's really easy to deduce. ;-)
>
> But the question was, what happens after that? What happens to the
> qualifying license after windows.old is gone, using windows.old as the
> marker for the end of the 30 day period. The answer to that question isn't
> as easy to deduce, which is why the jury is out. We need to see the 30 day
> period elapse to see what happens, since Microsoft hasn't said anything
> meaningful on the topic.
>
>> The ability to revert to a prior o/s with an activated license is
>> statistically independent of the Win10 upgrade and the license and
>> device footprint retained in the MSFT Store.
>
> Exactly, and since MS hasn't provided concrete guidance, we're in a wait and
> see mode.
>

No jury, no wait and see mode.

The 30 day only applies to the availability of the Go Back feature in
Win10. After 30 days, the feature won't even be present (its also
missing in a clean install)
- Returning to the prior o/s with or without the Go Back feature is
the same (within or after the 30 days). Go Back just provides another
route due to the files saved (but later purged) on the upgraded device.



--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience

[Bucky Breeder[_4_]]

Char Jackson > posted this via
:

> *During the 30 day period*, yes, it's really easy to deduce. ;-)
>
> But the question was, what happens after that? What happens to the
> qualifying license after windows.old is gone, using windows.old as the
> marker for the end of the 30 day period. The answer to that question
> isn't as easy to deduce, which is why the jury is out. We need to see
> the 30 day period elapse to see what happens, since Microsoft hasn't
> said anything meaningful on the topic.
>
>>The ability to revert to a prior o/s with an activated license is
>>statistically independent of the Win10 upgrade and the license and
>>device footprint retained in the MSFT Store.
>
> Exactly, and since MS hasn't provided concrete guidance, we're in a wait
> and see mode.

Your Windows 8.1 was previously activated on Microsoft's servers.

You upgraded to Windows 10, which was subsequently, routinely and/or
ritually activated on Microsoft's servers.

Now, if you imaged backupped your 8.1 first, and then you upgraded to 10,
the upgrade maintained your backup imaging software (it did with mine;
using AOMEI) and at some point you went ahead and imaged backupped your 10
because for right now - because you decided 10 was too cumbersome, and
restored the 8.1, the 8.1 would still be "activated" - or maintain its
activation credentials - so, you could catch up on any updates you've
missed, etc., and get some projects done with 8.1... Now, you like 8.1 OK,
but you want to keep up with Windows 10 developments, so you backup image
the most recent usage of 8.1 and then restore the Win 10 image - which
would remain "activated" or maintain its activation credentials, so you
might catch up on 10's updates and mess with it some more... then you're
still not completely content with it, so you backup image the latest 10 and
restore the most recent 8.1, and catch up on its updates...

On the "roll back" feature... The Windows 10 upgrade stores ~2.75GB (in my
case) in a folder on your C: drive... I guess there's a built-in timer
involved in this option, probably stored on your HDD. I use a backup image
system which takes about 11-minutes to backup and about 17-minutes to
restore. I have already used my Control Panel > Administrative Tools >
Disk Cleanup > Clean up system files (I disdain the way it has to analyze
again when you push that button... in Win8/8.1/and 10) > tic the Previous
Windows installation(s) box and regain almost 3GB of HDD space... You'd
need to keep those if you plan on using the "roll back" method... and then
you'd be confined to the 30-day period... but only somewhat - because you
can still upgrade for free to Win10 for the better part of the coming year
using the media creation tool, and either the DVD or USB media... It's
just way more cumbersome than using a a backup image method... IMO.

The 30-day period is not a try-it-or-lose-it situation... It's just
Microsoft's way of giving you some options should you not like Windows 10
and restoring the used HDD space back to usage... Say, they gave you 90-
days... well, for 90-days they'd be occupying nearly 3GB of your HDD with
roll-back files... Apparently, once the 30-days [or so] expires, your
system will automatically delete those files - which I have already done
manually because it seems to work for me. Berry berry gud to me.

There's no cross-reference between Microsoft's Windows 8.1 activation
servers and Windows 10 activation servers. As far as I can contemplate,
there is no potential for abuse because if someone tried to use any of
these backed up systems on another device, the Microsoft activation servers
would catch them and there'd be the published consequences to pay... Unless
you're Catholic... then you just goto Confession, do your assigned penance
(if you bribe the priest, you can probably get by with saying a couple of
Hail Marys) and it's like it never even happened and you still go to Heaven
-- but, of course, you'd have to die first.

HTH.

--

I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^; and,
It's like Yogi Berra always used to say:
"The future ain't what it used to be!"

<http://tinyurl.com/ocnqvgq>

[Bucky Breeder[_4_]]

.. . .winston > posted
this via :

> Win 8.1 will remain activated. It's statistically independent (think
> orthoganally)

NO! YOU ARE TYPICALLY SO WRONG! The word is "orthogonally"... except in
YOUR case, it's probably "orthogasmiclly" because your brain spasms are NOT
the same as a sentient being's "thinking." But keep on taking your geriatric
meds because if nothing else, you are supercedingly entertainful.

--

I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^; and,
It's like Yogi Berra always used to say:
"The future ain't what it used to be!"

<http://tinyurl.com/ocnqvgq>

[Char Jackson]

On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 04:53:10 -0400, ". . .winston" >
wrote:

>Char Jackson wrote on 08/09/2015 9:56 AM:
>>
>> Exactly, and since MS hasn't provided concrete guidance, we're in a wait and
>> see mode.
>>
>
>No jury, no wait and see mode.
>
>The 30 day only applies to the availability of the Go Back feature in
>Win10. After 30 days, the feature won't even be present (its also
>missing in a clean install)
> - Returning to the prior o/s with or without the Go Back feature is
>the same (within or after the 30 days). Go Back just provides another
>route due to the files saved (but later purged) on the upgraded device.

Thanks for providing that info, but we're still in a wait and see mode to
see if it works the way you described.

[Char Jackson]

On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 22:52:50 -0700, mike > wrote:

>Correct me if I'm wrong...
>I have win7 installed by the vendor of the PC.
>I have a license key that's the generic "activation not required"
>key shared by
>a zillion other devices from that vendor.
>I upgraded to win 10.
>If I go back to win7 by restoring a win7 image, how can they
>invalidate my key? I don't think my system would even ask???
>Yes?
>No?

....winston says you're fine. Me? I have no idea, which is why I say wait and
see what happens when others try similar things after the 30 day period
ends.

[. . .winston]

Bucky Breeder wrote on 08/10/2015 11:28 AM:
> . . .winston > posted
> this via :
>
>> Win 8.1 will remain activated. It's statistically independent (think
>> orthoganally)
>
> NO! YOU ARE TYPICALLY SO WRONG! The word is "orthogonally"... except in
> YOUR case, it's probably "orthogasmiclly" because your brain spasms are NOT
> the same as a sentient being's "thinking." But keep on taking your geriatric
> meds because if nothing else, you are supercedingly entertainful.
>

It's really too bad you don't have access to the Windows 10 Team to
prove yourself wrong on most of the drivel you provide.



--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience

[Bucky Breeder[_4_]]

FredW > posted this via
:

> On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 17:07:55 -0400, ". . .winston"
> > wrote:
>
>>Bucky Breeder wrote on 08/10/2015 11:28 AM:
>>
>>> . . .winston > posted
>>> this via :
>>>
>>>> It's statistically independent (think orthoganally)
>>>
>>> NO! YOU ARE TYPICALLY SO WRONG! The word is "orthogonally"...
>>> except in YOUR case, it's probably "orthogasmiclly" because
>>> your brain spasms are NOT the same as a sentient being's "thinking."
>>> But keep on taking your geriatric meds because if nothing else,
>>> you are supercedingly entertainful.
>>
>>It's really too bad you don't have access to the Windows 10 Team to
>>prove yourself wrong on most of the drivel you provide.
>
> Talking to a troll does not help.
>
> (Bucky Breeder (in)famous from other newsgroups)
>
> ;-)

Typical nym-morphing sock-puppet troll conga-line and lamer sycophants
up to their same-old--lame-old geriatric stalking snip-and-snipe tricks.

The reason "...winston" incorrectly used "orthoganally" for "orthogonally"
is because that's a word which illustrates how *s/he* thinks; to-wit, like
s/he's got a stick up h/er/is ass! BWHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

("<whines, snibbles and drools> ... too bad you're not in my leetle private
exclusive imaginary girl's club..." -- The Buffoon known as "...winston")

Whadda maroon! Whadda stack of maroons!

HTH.

--

I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^; and,
It's like Yogi Berra always used to say:
"The future ain't what it used to be!"

<http://tinyurl.com/odlbe3r>