Sending files and uPnP

[Piotr Kaminski]

I'm having problems transfering files in Windows Messenger 4.7. Here's the
scenario:

- two machines, both behind uPnP routers (Microsoft ones, incidentally)
- no software firewalls on either machine (including WinXP one)
- all other features work fine (audio, application sharing, etc.)
- file transfers are "blocked" in both directions

From browsing messages, it seems that Windows Messenger 4.7 may not take
advantage of uPnP for file transfers, even though it does for everything
else. Is this the case? If so, when will this bug be fixed? Would MSN
Messenger 5.0 work correctly in this scenario?

If I'm completely off-base, any suggestions on how to fix the problem? I'm
not willing to open any permanent holes in the firewall or (even worse) set
up a DMZ machine. That's what uPnP is supposed to prevent, after all.

Thanks.

[Jonathan Kay [MVP]]

Greetings Piotr,

Yes, Windows Messenger does not have UPnP enable file transfer, you do need to use MSN
Messenger 5 for this:
http://messenger.msn.com/download/download.asp?client=1.
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Windows MVP, Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com

"Piotr Kaminski" > wrote in message ...
> I'm having problems transfering files in Windows Messenger 4.7. Here's the
> scenario:
>
> - two machines, both behind uPnP routers (Microsoft ones, incidentally)
> - no software firewalls on either machine (including WinXP one)
> - all other features work fine (audio, application sharing, etc.)
> - file transfers are "blocked" in both directions
>
> From browsing messages, it seems that Windows Messenger 4.7 may not take
> advantage of uPnP for file transfers, even though it does for everything
> else. Is this the case? If so, when will this bug be fixed? Would MSN
> Messenger 5.0 work correctly in this scenario?
>
> If I'm completely off-base, any suggestions on how to fix the problem? I'm
> not willing to open any permanent holes in the firewall or (even worse) set
> up a DMZ machine. That's what uPnP is supposed to prevent, after all.
>
> Thanks.
>
>

[Piotr Kaminski]

"Jonathan Kay [MVP]" > wrote in message
...
> Yes, Windows Messenger does not have UPnP enable file transfer, you do
need to use MSN
> Messenger 5 for this:
> http://messenger.msn.com/download/download.asp?client=1.

Thanks Jonathan, that's what I was afraid of. I think Microsoft should
acknowledge this issue in its documentation and/or KB, since everything I
read up to this point indicates that the scenario presented should work
fine.

[Jonathan Kay [MVP]]

Hi Piotr,

Most of the documentation concentrates on voice/video (which does use UPnP in Windows
Messenger) -- and doesn't mention file transfer.
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Windows MVP, Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com

"Piotr Kaminski" > wrote in message ...
> "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Yes, Windows Messenger does not have UPnP enable file transfer, you do
> need to use MSN
> > Messenger 5 for this:
> > http://messenger.msn.com/download/download.asp?client=1.
>
> Thanks Jonathan, that's what I was afraid of. I think Microsoft should
> acknowledge this issue in its documentation and/or KB, since everything I
> read up to this point indicates that the scenario presented should work
> fine.
>
>

[Piotr Kaminski]

"Jonathan Kay [MVP]" > wrote in message
...
> Most of the documentation concentrates on voice/video (which does use UPnP
in Windows
> Messenger) -- and doesn't mention file transfer.

The misleading document I was thinking of:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/techinfo/deployment/natfw/default.asp

It talks about File Transfer, saying that the only things needed to make it
work are IP remapping and open ports in the 6891-6900 range (both facilities
enabled by UPnP). Then on page 5, it specifically says that two homes
connected through UPnP-enabled gateways "can still communicate with each
other using all of the Windows Messenger features".

This is the primary reason why I bought three Microsoft gateways -- figuring
they would be the most compatible with Microsoft software -- so I'm rather
disappointed to see that the promised functionality is missing. I've now
installed MSN Messenger 5, and file transfer at least sometimes works (still
ironing out some bugs), but it no longer integrates with Outlook and has an
annoying ad at the bottom.

[p_l]

Is there any indication that this will be fixed shortly,
in an upcoming version? TIA
>-----Original Message-----
>Greetings Piotr,
>
>Yes, Windows Messenger does not have UPnP enable file
transfer, you do need to use MSN
>Messenger 5 for this:
>http://messenger.msn.com/download/download.asp?client=1.
>____________________________________________
>Jonathan Kay
>Windows MVP, Messenger
>Associate Expert
>http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
>Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
>
>"Piotr Kaminski" > wrote in message
...
>> I'm having problems transfering files in Windows
Messenger 4.7. Here's the
>> scenario:
>>
>> - two machines, both behind uPnP routers (Microsoft
ones, incidentally)
>> - no software firewalls on either machine (including
WinXP one)
>> - all other features work fine (audio, application
sharing, etc.)
>> - file transfers are "blocked" in both directions
>>
>> From browsing messages, it seems that Windows Messenger
4.7 may not take
>> advantage of uPnP for file transfers, even though it
does for everything
>> else. Is this the case? If so, when will this bug be
fixed? Would MSN
>> Messenger 5.0 work correctly in this scenario?
>>
>> If I'm completely off-base, any suggestions on how to
fix the problem? I'm
>> not willing to open any permanent holes in the firewall
or (even worse) set
>> up a DMZ machine. That's what uPnP is supposed to
prevent, after all.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>
>
>.
>

[Jonathan Kay [MVP]]

Hi,

Whether or not Windows Messenger 5.0 will support UPnP file transfer is still up in the air
at this point.
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Windows MVP, Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com


"p_l" > wrote in message ...
> Is there any indication that this will be fixed shortly,
> in an upcoming version? TIA
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Greetings Piotr,
> >
> >Yes, Windows Messenger does not have UPnP enable file
> transfer, you do need to use MSN
> >Messenger 5 for this:
> >http://messenger.msn.com/download/download.asp?client=1.
> >____________________________________________
> >Jonathan Kay
> >Windows MVP, Messenger
> >Associate Expert
> >http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> >Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
> >
> >"Piotr Kaminski" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> I'm having problems transfering files in Windows
> Messenger 4.7. Here's the
> >> scenario:
> >>
> >> - two machines, both behind uPnP routers (Microsoft
> ones, incidentally)
> >> - no software firewalls on either machine (including
> WinXP one)
> >> - all other features work fine (audio, application
> sharing, etc.)
> >> - file transfers are "blocked" in both directions
> >>
> >> From browsing messages, it seems that Windows Messenger
> 4.7 may not take
> >> advantage of uPnP for file transfers, even though it
> does for everything
> >> else. Is this the case? If so, when will this bug be
> fixed? Would MSN
> >> Messenger 5.0 work correctly in this scenario?
> >>
> >> If I'm completely off-base, any suggestions on how to
> fix the problem? I'm
> >> not willing to open any permanent holes in the firewall
> or (even worse) set
> >> up a DMZ machine. That's what uPnP is supposed to
> prevent, after all.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >.
> >

[Jonathan Kay [MVP]]

Hi Piotr,

It's actually referring to firewall's in that section, not NATs specifically. Hence:

"The address provided by the initiating station might be an internal address that is
translated by a NAT device. This is an invalid address for the peer to use for the TCP
connection. "

Anyway, I do agree that the /natfw article is very confusing.
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Windows MVP, Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com



"Piotr Kaminski" > wrote in message ...
> "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Most of the documentation concentrates on voice/video (which does use UPnP
> in Windows
> > Messenger) -- and doesn't mention file transfer.
>
> The misleading document I was thinking of:
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/techinfo/deployment/natfw/default.asp
>
> It talks about File Transfer, saying that the only things needed to make it
> work are IP remapping and open ports in the 6891-6900 range (both facilities
> enabled by UPnP). Then on page 5, it specifically says that two homes
> connected through UPnP-enabled gateways "can still communicate with each
> other using all of the Windows Messenger features".
>
> This is the primary reason why I bought three Microsoft gateways -- figuring
> they would be the most compatible with Microsoft software -- so I'm rather
> disappointed to see that the promised functionality is missing. I've now
> installed MSN Messenger 5, and file transfer at least sometimes works (still
> ironing out some bugs), but it no longer integrates with Outlook and has an
> annoying ad at the bottom.
>
>

[p_l]

Jonathan,
Thanks for the reply. Gosh, I sure hope it will. A quick
search here shows that I'm not the only one tearing his
hair out over this. I had been looking for a solution to
this problem for about a month until I was enlightened
here. And think of all the people out there who are still
in the dark. I appreciate your kind help.

>-----Original Message-----
>Hi,
>
>Whether or not Windows Messenger 5.0 will support UPnP
file transfer is still up in the air
>at this point.
>____________________________________________
>Jonathan Kay
>Windows MVP, Messenger
>Associate Expert
>http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
>Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
>
>
>"p_l" > wrote in message
...
>> Is there any indication that this will be fixed shortly,
>> in an upcoming version? TIA
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >Greetings Piotr,
>> >
>> >Yes, Windows Messenger does not have UPnP enable file
>> transfer, you do need to use MSN
>> >Messenger 5 for this:
>> >http://messenger.msn.com/download/download.asp?
client=1.
>> >____________________________________________
>> >Jonathan Kay
>> >Windows MVP, Messenger
>> >Associate Expert
>> >http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
>> >Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
>> >
>> >"Piotr Kaminski" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> I'm having problems transfering files in Windows
>> Messenger 4.7. Here's the
>> >> scenario:
>> >>
>> >> - two machines, both behind uPnP routers (Microsoft
>> ones, incidentally)
>> >> - no software firewalls on either machine (including
>> WinXP one)
>> >> - all other features work fine (audio, application
>> sharing, etc.)
>> >> - file transfers are "blocked" in both directions
>> >>
>> >> From browsing messages, it seems that Windows
Messenger
>> 4.7 may not take
>> >> advantage of uPnP for file transfers, even though it
>> does for everything
>> >> else. Is this the case? If so, when will this bug
be
>> fixed? Would MSN
>> >> Messenger 5.0 work correctly in this scenario?
>> >>
>> >> If I'm completely off-base, any suggestions on how to
>> fix the problem? I'm
>> >> not willing to open any permanent holes in the
firewall
>> or (even worse) set
>> >> up a DMZ machine. That's what uPnP is supposed to
>> prevent, after all.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >.
>> >
>
>
>.
>

[Jonathan Kay [MVP]]

Hi,

Glad to be of assistance =).
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Windows MVP, Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com


"p_l" > wrote in message ...
> Jonathan,
> Thanks for the reply. Gosh, I sure hope it will. A quick
> search here shows that I'm not the only one tearing his
> hair out over this. I had been looking for a solution to
> this problem for about a month until I was enlightened
> here. And think of all the people out there who are still
> in the dark. I appreciate your kind help.
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Hi,
> >
> >Whether or not Windows Messenger 5.0 will support UPnP
> file transfer is still up in the air
> >at this point.
> >____________________________________________
> >Jonathan Kay
> >Windows MVP, Messenger
> >Associate Expert
> >http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> >Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
> >
> >
> >"p_l" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Is there any indication that this will be fixed shortly,
> >> in an upcoming version? TIA
> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >Greetings Piotr,
> >> >
> >> >Yes, Windows Messenger does not have UPnP enable file
> >> transfer, you do need to use MSN
> >> >Messenger 5 for this:
> >> >http://messenger.msn.com/download/download.asp?
> client=1.
> >> >____________________________________________
> >> >Jonathan Kay
> >> >Windows MVP, Messenger
> >> >Associate Expert
> >> >http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> >> >Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
> >> >
> >> >"Piotr Kaminski" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >> I'm having problems transfering files in Windows
> >> Messenger 4.7. Here's the
> >> >> scenario:
> >> >>
> >> >> - two machines, both behind uPnP routers (Microsoft
> >> ones, incidentally)
> >> >> - no software firewalls on either machine (including
> >> WinXP one)
> >> >> - all other features work fine (audio, application
> >> sharing, etc.)
> >> >> - file transfers are "blocked" in both directions
> >> >>
> >> >> From browsing messages, it seems that Windows
> Messenger
> >> 4.7 may not take
> >> >> advantage of uPnP for file transfers, even though it
> >> does for everything
> >> >> else. Is this the case? If so, when will this bug
> be
> >> fixed? Would MSN
> >> >> Messenger 5.0 work correctly in this scenario?
> >> >>
> >> >> If I'm completely off-base, any suggestions on how to
> >> fix the problem? I'm
> >> >> not willing to open any permanent holes in the
> firewall
> >> or (even worse) set
> >> >> up a DMZ machine. That's what uPnP is supposed to
> >> prevent, after all.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >.
> >> >
> >
> >
> >.
> >

[p_l]

I did try your suggestion of using MSN Messenger 5.0 for
file transfers, and of course you are correct; it does
seem to be uPnP, and I can now send files perfectly, this
after weeks of trying to figure out what *I* was doing
wrong. I just wanted to reiterate my gratitude for your
help.
So now, though, I have both Windows and MSN Messengers on
my system, and the MSN version doesn't seem to integrate
with Outlook Express, so I suppose we'll have to wait 'n'
see if the next version of Windows Messenger is uPlug 'n'
Play. If it is, with apologies to Voltaire, it will be the
best of all possible worlds. Thank you again. :)

>-----Original Message-----
>Hi,
>
>Glad to be of assistance =).
>____________________________________________
>Jonathan Kay
>Windows MVP, Messenger
>Associate Expert
>http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
>Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
>
>
>"p_l" > wrote in message
...
>> Jonathan,
>> Thanks for the reply. Gosh, I sure hope it will. A quick
>> search here shows that I'm not the only one tearing his
>> hair out over this. I had been looking for a solution to
>> this problem for about a month until I was enlightened
>> here. And think of all the people out there who are
still
>> in the dark. I appreciate your kind help.
>>
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >Hi,
>> >
>> >Whether or not Windows Messenger 5.0 will support UPnP
>> file transfer is still up in the air
>> >at this point.
>> >____________________________________________
>> >Jonathan Kay
>> >Windows MVP, Messenger
>> >Associate Expert
>> >http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
>> >Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
>> >
>> >
>> >"p_l" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> Is there any indication that this will be fixed
shortly,
>> >> in an upcoming version? TIA
>> >> >-----Original Message-----
>> >> >Greetings Piotr,
>> >> >
>> >> >Yes, Windows Messenger does not have UPnP enable
file
>> >> transfer, you do need to use MSN
>> >> >Messenger 5 for this:
>> >> >http://messenger.msn.com/download/download.asp?
>> client=1.
>> >> >____________________________________________
>> >> >Jonathan Kay
>> >> >Windows MVP, Messenger
>> >> >Associate Expert
>> >> >http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
>> >> >Messenger Resources -
http://messenger.jonathankay.com
>> >> >
>> >> >"Piotr Kaminski" > wrote in
message
>> >> ...
>> >> >> I'm having problems transfering files in Windows
>> >> Messenger 4.7. Here's the
>> >> >> scenario:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> - two machines, both behind uPnP routers
(Microsoft
>> >> ones, incidentally)
>> >> >> - no software firewalls on either machine
(including
>> >> WinXP one)
>> >> >> - all other features work fine (audio, application
>> >> sharing, etc.)
>> >> >> - file transfers are "blocked" in both directions
>> >> >>
>> >> >> From browsing messages, it seems that Windows
>> Messenger
>> >> 4.7 may not take
>> >> >> advantage of uPnP for file transfers, even though
it
>> >> does for everything
>> >> >> else. Is this the case? If so, when will this
bug
>> be
>> >> fixed? Would MSN
>> >> >> Messenger 5.0 work correctly in this scenario?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If I'm completely off-base, any suggestions on
how to
>> >> fix the problem? I'm
>> >> >> not willing to open any permanent holes in the
>> firewall
>> >> or (even worse) set
>> >> >> up a DMZ machine. That's what uPnP is supposed to
>> >> prevent, after all.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >.
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>> >.
>> >
>
>
>.
>

[Swampy]

I wouldnt hold your breath for Windows Messenger 5 to support it either,
although the help files indicate it may do, there seems to be some debate as
to whether it will do!


"p_l" > wrote in message
...
> I did try your suggestion of using MSN Messenger 5.0 for
> file transfers, and of course you are correct; it does
> seem to be uPnP, and I can now send files perfectly, this
> after weeks of trying to figure out what *I* was doing
> wrong. I just wanted to reiterate my gratitude for your
> help.
> So now, though, I have both Windows and MSN Messengers on
> my system, and the MSN version doesn't seem to integrate
> with Outlook Express, so I suppose we'll have to wait 'n'
> see if the next version of Windows Messenger is uPlug 'n'
> Play. If it is, with apologies to Voltaire, it will be the
> best of all possible worlds. Thank you again. :)
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Hi,
> >
> >Glad to be of assistance =).
> >____________________________________________
> >Jonathan Kay
> >Windows MVP, Messenger
> >Associate Expert
> >http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> >Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
> >
> >
> >"p_l" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Jonathan,
> >> Thanks for the reply. Gosh, I sure hope it will. A quick
> >> search here shows that I'm not the only one tearing his
> >> hair out over this. I had been looking for a solution to
> >> this problem for about a month until I was enlightened
> >> here. And think of all the people out there who are
> still
> >> in the dark. I appreciate your kind help.
> >>
> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >Hi,
> >> >
> >> >Whether or not Windows Messenger 5.0 will support UPnP
> >> file transfer is still up in the air
> >> >at this point.
> >> >____________________________________________
> >> >Jonathan Kay
> >> >Windows MVP, Messenger
> >> >Associate Expert
> >> >http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> >> >Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >"p_l" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >> Is there any indication that this will be fixed
> shortly,
> >> >> in an upcoming version? TIA
> >> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >> >Greetings Piotr,
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Yes, Windows Messenger does not have UPnP enable
> file
> >> >> transfer, you do need to use MSN
> >> >> >Messenger 5 for this:
> >> >> >http://messenger.msn.com/download/download.asp?
> >> client=1.
> >> >> >____________________________________________
> >> >> >Jonathan Kay
> >> >> >Windows MVP, Messenger
> >> >> >Associate Expert
> >> >> >http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> >> >> >Messenger Resources -
> http://messenger.jonathankay.com
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Piotr Kaminski" > wrote in
> message
> >> >> ...
> >> >> >> I'm having problems transfering files in Windows
> >> >> Messenger 4.7. Here's the
> >> >> >> scenario:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> - two machines, both behind uPnP routers
> (Microsoft
> >> >> ones, incidentally)
> >> >> >> - no software firewalls on either machine
> (including
> >> >> WinXP one)
> >> >> >> - all other features work fine (audio, application
> >> >> sharing, etc.)
> >> >> >> - file transfers are "blocked" in both directions
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> From browsing messages, it seems that Windows
> >> Messenger
> >> >> 4.7 may not take
> >> >> >> advantage of uPnP for file transfers, even though
> it
> >> >> does for everything
> >> >> >> else. Is this the case? If so, when will this
> bug
> >> be
> >> >> fixed? Would MSN
> >> >> >> Messenger 5.0 work correctly in this scenario?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> If I'm completely off-base, any suggestions on
> how to
> >> >> fix the problem? I'm
> >> >> >> not willing to open any permanent holes in the
> >> firewall
> >> >> or (even worse) set
> >> >> >> up a DMZ machine. That's what uPnP is supposed to
> >> >> prevent, after all.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Thanks.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >.
> >> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >.
> >> >
> >
> >
> >.
> >