Messenger V6 (beta) info

[Dave]

I've downloaded and installed the beta of Messenger V6. I know it's a beta
_and_ I'm not expecting any support.
I use a Solwise SAR110 modem router (shared via a plain jane hub) to access
my ADSL account. MSN V6 does the instant messenger bit and it allows file
transfers fine. Video works as well but audio does not.
The SAR110 does NAT and is not a UPNP firewall. I have it "stealthed" ie
ports hidden etc.
The thing is that Yahoo Instant Messenger gets through the firewall "out of
the box". Video, voice and file transfers work fine.
Is this because the MSN is beta and it's going to be fixed?
Please don't say that I must open ports 5004 to 65K+ 'cos that will not
happen!.
If Yahoo can do it why cant MSN? (yet?????????????).
Dave

[Jonathan Kay [MVP]]

Greetings Dave,

In MSN Messenger 6, there have been some various changes to allow you to use the features
you've mentioned below, however audio conversations are the same as Messenger 4.x and 5.x
versions -- they require Universal Plug and Play (UPnP) in order for it to be successful.

For comparison purposes, Yahoo Messenger's features (file/video/voice) first try twisted tcp
(that is, if one side can't connect to the other, it tries from the other side) and then use
a central server if a direct connection can't be established. MSN Messenger 6's file feature
does make use of this, the new "Webcam" feature somewhat does, but voice has remained the
same as before.
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Windows MVP, Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com

"Dave" > wrote in message
...
> I've downloaded and installed the beta of Messenger V6. I know it's a beta
> _and_ I'm not expecting any support.
> I use a Solwise SAR110 modem router (shared via a plain jane hub) to access
> my ADSL account. MSN V6 does the instant messenger bit and it allows file
> transfers fine. Video works as well but audio does not.
> The SAR110 does NAT and is not a UPNP firewall. I have it "stealthed" ie
> ports hidden etc.
> The thing is that Yahoo Instant Messenger gets through the firewall "out of
> the box". Video, voice and file transfers work fine.
> Is this because the MSN is beta and it's going to be fixed?
> Please don't say that I must open ports 5004 to 65K+ 'cos that will not
> happen!.
> If Yahoo can do it why cant MSN? (yet?????????????).
> Dave
>
>
>

[Dave]

"Jonathan Kay [MVP]" > wrote in message
...
> Greetings Dave,
>
> In MSN Messenger 6, there have been some various changes to allow you to
use the features
> you've mentioned below, however audio conversations are the same as
Messenger 4.x and 5.x
> versions -- they require Universal Plug and Play (UPnP) in order for it to
be successful.
>
> For comparison purposes, Yahoo Messenger's features (file/video/voice)
first try twisted tcp
> (that is, if one side can't connect to the other, it tries from the other
side) and then use
> a central server if a direct connection can't be established. MSN
Messenger 6's file feature
> does make use of this, the new "Webcam" feature somewhat does, but voice
has remained the
> same as before.
>

So the bottom line is no voice in MSN 6? like ever? (if behind a
NAT/Firewall where the IT dept/Network Admin won't open the ports?) shame,
big shame.

[lewell]

hey jonathan i'm looking forward in joining the beta test for msn msngr 6
how possible is this? i already have a betaplace.com ID = 468972

lewell


"Jonathan Kay [MVP]" > wrote in message
...
Greetings Dave,

In MSN Messenger 6, there have been some various changes to allow you to use
the features
you've mentioned below, however audio conversations are the same as
Messenger 4.x and 5.x
versions -- they require Universal Plug and Play (UPnP) in order for it to
be successful.

For comparison purposes, Yahoo Messenger's features (file/video/voice) first
try twisted tcp
(that is, if one side can't connect to the other, it tries from the other
side) and then use
a central server if a direct connection can't be established. MSN Messenger
6's file feature
does make use of this, the new "Webcam" feature somewhat does, but voice has
remained the
same as before.
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Windows MVP, Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com

"Dave" > wrote in message
...
> I've downloaded and installed the beta of Messenger V6. I know it's a beta
> _and_ I'm not expecting any support.
> I use a Solwise SAR110 modem router (shared via a plain jane hub) to
access
> my ADSL account. MSN V6 does the instant messenger bit and it allows file
> transfers fine. Video works as well but audio does not.
> The SAR110 does NAT and is not a UPNP firewall. I have it "stealthed" ie
> ports hidden etc.
> The thing is that Yahoo Instant Messenger gets through the firewall "out
of
> the box". Video, voice and file transfers work fine.
> Is this because the MSN is beta and it's going to be fixed?
> Please don't say that I must open ports 5004 to 65K+ 'cos that will not
> happen!.
> If Yahoo can do it why cant MSN? (yet?????????????).
> Dave
>
>
>

[Jonathan Kay [MVP]]

Hi Dave,

I don't believe this will be changed by the final (or any public) version of MSN Messenger 6.
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Windows MVP, Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com

"Dave" > wrote in message ...
>
> "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Greetings Dave,
> >
> > In MSN Messenger 6, there have been some various changes to allow you to
> use the features
> > you've mentioned below, however audio conversations are the same as
> Messenger 4.x and 5.x
> > versions -- they require Universal Plug and Play (UPnP) in order for it to
> be successful.
> >
> > For comparison purposes, Yahoo Messenger's features (file/video/voice)
> first try twisted tcp
> > (that is, if one side can't connect to the other, it tries from the other
> side) and then use
> > a central server if a direct connection can't be established. MSN
> Messenger 6's file feature
> > does make use of this, the new "Webcam" feature somewhat does, but voice
> has remained the
> > same as before.
> >
>
> So the bottom line is no voice in MSN 6? like ever? (if behind a
> NAT/Firewall where the IT dept/Network Admin won't open the ports?) shame,
> big shame.
>
>
>

[Jonathan Kay [MVP]]

Hi Lewell,

Actually there isn't going to be a beta test, the only "beta" that will be released is a
"public preview", which everyone will have access to (in the very near future).
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Windows MVP, Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com


"lewell" > wrote in message ...
> hey jonathan i'm looking forward in joining the beta test for msn msngr 6
> how possible is this? i already have a betaplace.com ID = 468972
>
> lewell
>
>
> "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" > wrote in message
> ...
> Greetings Dave,
>
> In MSN Messenger 6, there have been some various changes to allow you to use
> the features
> you've mentioned below, however audio conversations are the same as
> Messenger 4.x and 5.x
> versions -- they require Universal Plug and Play (UPnP) in order for it to
> be successful.
>
> For comparison purposes, Yahoo Messenger's features (file/video/voice) first
> try twisted tcp
> (that is, if one side can't connect to the other, it tries from the other
> side) and then use
> a central server if a direct connection can't be established. MSN Messenger
> 6's file feature
> does make use of this, the new "Webcam" feature somewhat does, but voice has
> remained the
> same as before.
> ____________________________________________
> Jonathan Kay
> Windows MVP, Messenger
> Associate Expert
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
>
> "Dave" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I've downloaded and installed the beta of Messenger V6. I know it's a beta
> > _and_ I'm not expecting any support.
> > I use a Solwise SAR110 modem router (shared via a plain jane hub) to
> access
> > my ADSL account. MSN V6 does the instant messenger bit and it allows file
> > transfers fine. Video works as well but audio does not.
> > The SAR110 does NAT and is not a UPNP firewall. I have it "stealthed" ie
> > ports hidden etc.
> > The thing is that Yahoo Instant Messenger gets through the firewall "out
> of
> > the box". Video, voice and file transfers work fine.
> > Is this because the MSN is beta and it's going to be fixed?
> > Please don't say that I must open ports 5004 to 65K+ 'cos that will not
> > happen!.
> > If Yahoo can do it why cant MSN? (yet?????????????).
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

[Dave]

Jonathan
Thank you for the reply.
It's a shame that the developers haven't taken that extra step.
But, thank you for the info.
Dave


"Jonathan Kay [MVP]" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Dave,
>
> I don't believe this will be changed by the final (or any public) version
of MSN Messenger 6.
> ____________________________________________
> Jonathan Kay
> Windows MVP, Messenger
> Associate Expert
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
>
> "Dave" > wrote in message
...
> >
> > "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Greetings Dave,
> > >
> > > In MSN Messenger 6, there have been some various changes to allow you
to
> > use the features
> > > you've mentioned below, however audio conversations are the same as
> > Messenger 4.x and 5.x
> > > versions -- they require Universal Plug and Play (UPnP) in order for
it to
> > be successful.
> > >
> > > For comparison purposes, Yahoo Messenger's features (file/video/voice)
> > first try twisted tcp
> > > (that is, if one side can't connect to the other, it tries from the
other
> > side) and then use
> > > a central server if a direct connection can't be established. MSN
> > Messenger 6's file feature
> > > does make use of this, the new "Webcam" feature somewhat does, but
voice
> > has remained the
> > > same as before.
> > >
> >
> > So the bottom line is no voice in MSN 6? like ever? (if behind a
> > NAT/Firewall where the IT dept/Network Admin won't open the ports?)
shame,
> > big shame.
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[DCH]

> For comparison purposes, Yahoo Messenger's features (file/video/voice)
first try twisted tcp
> (that is, if one side can't connect to the other, it tries from the other
side) and then use
> a central server if a direct connection can't be established. MSN
Messenger 6's file feature
> does make use of this .....


Perhaps this is the reason, why I never was able to send files to a
msn-5-user from msn-6 here, while all the other things are still working
well (all the ports are mapped automatically like I can see in UPnP table,
video/voice/whiteboard/remote/etc. are perfect working).

Greetings
Carsten

[John Holmes [MSFT]]

Actually, we spent a fair bit of time working on the A/V connectivity in v6.
It should now work through many non-UPnP NATs which it used to fail for, as
long as both parties are using v6.

However, there is still some class of NATs through which I cannot make a
direct peer-to-peer connection. If you have one of these NATs, webcam will
still work (because it falls back to go through a central server), as will
file transfer (for the same reason), but audio (and video conferencing) will
not, since they have no fallback mechanism.

Dave, it may be that your router falls into this class (called "symmetric")
of devices, in which case there's nothing you can do to get audio to work in
messenger, at least until we have a fallback mechanism to send audio through
a server.

--
John Holmes
Developer, MSN Messenger

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Please do not send e-mail directly to this alias. This alias is for
newsgroup purposes only.


"Jonathan Kay [MVP]" > wrote in message
...
> Greetings Dave,
>
> In MSN Messenger 6, there have been some various changes to allow you to
use the features
> you've mentioned below, however audio conversations are the same as
Messenger 4.x and 5.x
> versions -- they require Universal Plug and Play (UPnP) in order for it to
be successful.
>
> For comparison purposes, Yahoo Messenger's features (file/video/voice)
first try twisted tcp
> (that is, if one side can't connect to the other, it tries from the other
side) and then use
> a central server if a direct connection can't be established. MSN
Messenger 6's file feature
> does make use of this, the new "Webcam" feature somewhat does, but voice
has remained the
> same as before.
> ____________________________________________
> Jonathan Kay
> Windows MVP, Messenger
> Associate Expert
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
>
> "Dave" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I've downloaded and installed the beta of Messenger V6. I know it's a
beta
> > _and_ I'm not expecting any support.
> > I use a Solwise SAR110 modem router (shared via a plain jane hub) to
access
> > my ADSL account. MSN V6 does the instant messenger bit and it allows
file
> > transfers fine. Video works as well but audio does not.
> > The SAR110 does NAT and is not a UPNP firewall. I have it "stealthed" ie
> > ports hidden etc.
> > The thing is that Yahoo Instant Messenger gets through the firewall "out
of
> > the box". Video, voice and file transfers work fine.
> > Is this because the MSN is beta and it's going to be fixed?
> > Please don't say that I must open ports 5004 to 65K+ 'cos that will not
> > happen!.
> > If Yahoo can do it why cant MSN? (yet?????????????).
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[DCH]

But why does upnp work for me with all features in msn 5 (netgear fr114p)
and not so in msn 6? I mean, upnp works in msn 6 for me concerning all
featrures except xfer. When I transfer a file from my msn 6 to a buddy using
msn 5, the transfer initializes and I can see a mapped port in upnp table,
but befor any bits are transmitted, it stops and gives me the information
that file could not be sent.

CU

"John Holmes [MSFT]" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
> Actually, we spent a fair bit of time working on the A/V connectivity in
v6.
> It should now work through many non-UPnP NATs which it used to fail for,
as
> long as both parties are using v6.
>
> However, there is still some class of NATs through which I cannot make a
> direct peer-to-peer connection. If you have one of these NATs, webcam will
> still work (because it falls back to go through a central server), as will
> file transfer (for the same reason), but audio (and video conferencing)
will
> not, since they have no fallback mechanism.
>
> Dave, it may be that your router falls into this class (called
"symmetric")
> of devices, in which case there's nothing you can do to get audio to work
in
> messenger, at least until we have a fallback mechanism to send audio
through
> a server.
>
> --
> John Holmes
> Developer, MSN Messenger
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
> Please do not send e-mail directly to this alias. This alias is for
> newsgroup purposes only.
>
>
> "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Greetings Dave,
> >
> > In MSN Messenger 6, there have been some various changes to allow you to
> use the features
> > you've mentioned below, however audio conversations are the same as
> Messenger 4.x and 5.x
> > versions -- they require Universal Plug and Play (UPnP) in order for it
to
> be successful.
> >
> > For comparison purposes, Yahoo Messenger's features (file/video/voice)
> first try twisted tcp
> > (that is, if one side can't connect to the other, it tries from the
other
> side) and then use
> > a central server if a direct connection can't be established. MSN
> Messenger 6's file feature
> > does make use of this, the new "Webcam" feature somewhat does, but voice
> has remained the
> > same as before.
> > ____________________________________________
> > Jonathan Kay
> > Windows MVP, Messenger
> > Associate Expert
> > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> > Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
> >
> > "Dave" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I've downloaded and installed the beta of Messenger V6. I know it's a
> beta
> > > _and_ I'm not expecting any support.
> > > I use a Solwise SAR110 modem router (shared via a plain jane hub) to
> access
> > > my ADSL account. MSN V6 does the instant messenger bit and it allows
> file
> > > transfers fine. Video works as well but audio does not.
> > > The SAR110 does NAT and is not a UPNP firewall. I have it "stealthed"
ie
> > > ports hidden etc.
> > > The thing is that Yahoo Instant Messenger gets through the firewall
"out
> of
> > > the box". Video, voice and file transfers work fine.
> > > Is this because the MSN is beta and it's going to be fixed?
> > > Please don't say that I must open ports 5004 to 65K+ 'cos that will
not
> > > happen!.
> > > If Yahoo can do it why cant MSN? (yet?????????????).
> > > Dave
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Dave]

John
Thank you for your answer.
At least I know exactly where I stand now.
Dave

"John Holmes [MSFT]" > wrote in message
...
> Actually, we spent a fair bit of time working on the A/V connectivity in
v6.
> It should now work through many non-UPnP NATs which it used to fail for,
as
> long as both parties are using v6.
>
> However, there is still some class of NATs through which I cannot make a
> direct peer-to-peer connection. If you have one of these NATs, webcam will
> still work (because it falls back to go through a central server), as will
> file transfer (for the same reason), but audio (and video conferencing)
will
> not, since they have no fallback mechanism.
>
> Dave, it may be that your router falls into this class (called
"symmetric")
> of devices, in which case there's nothing you can do to get audio to work
in
> messenger, at least until we have a fallback mechanism to send audio
through
> a server.
>
> --
> John Holmes
> Developer, MSN Messenger
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
> Please do not send e-mail directly to this alias. This alias is for
> newsgroup purposes only.
>
>
> "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Greetings Dave,
> >
> > In MSN Messenger 6, there have been some various changes to allow you to
> use the features
> > you've mentioned below, however audio conversations are the same as
> Messenger 4.x and 5.x
> > versions -- they require Universal Plug and Play (UPnP) in order for it
to
> be successful.
> >
> > For comparison purposes, Yahoo Messenger's features (file/video/voice)
> first try twisted tcp
> > (that is, if one side can't connect to the other, it tries from the
other
> side) and then use
> > a central server if a direct connection can't be established. MSN
> Messenger 6's file feature
> > does make use of this, the new "Webcam" feature somewhat does, but voice
> has remained the
> > same as before.
> > ____________________________________________
> > Jonathan Kay
> > Windows MVP, Messenger
> > Associate Expert
> > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> > Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
> >
> > "Dave" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I've downloaded and installed the beta of Messenger V6. I know it's a
> beta
> > > _and_ I'm not expecting any support.
> > > I use a Solwise SAR110 modem router (shared via a plain jane hub) to
> access
> > > my ADSL account. MSN V6 does the instant messenger bit and it allows
> file
> > > transfers fine. Video works as well but audio does not.
> > > The SAR110 does NAT and is not a UPNP firewall. I have it "stealthed"
ie
> > > ports hidden etc.
> > > The thing is that Yahoo Instant Messenger gets through the firewall
"out
> of
> > > the box". Video, voice and file transfers work fine.
> > > Is this because the MSN is beta and it's going to be fixed?
> > > Please don't say that I must open ports 5004 to 65K+ 'cos that will
not
> > > happen!.
> > > If Yahoo can do it why cant MSN? (yet?????????????).
> > > Dave
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[John Holmes [MSFT]]

Hm. This is the 2nd time I recall hearing someone say things aren't working
right with a netgear fr114p. I'll try to have our test team get one and see
what the issues are.

Did AV work in v5 for you? In v6 we've changed the way we do UPnP for file
transfer to more closely match what we do for AV and also to provide support
on non XP systems.

--
John Holmes
Developer, MSN Messenger

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Please do not send e-mail directly to this alias. This alias is for
newsgroup purposes only.


"DCH" > wrote in message
...
> But why does upnp work for me with all features in msn 5 (netgear fr114p)
> and not so in msn 6? I mean, upnp works in msn 6 for me concerning all
> featrures except xfer. When I transfer a file from my msn 6 to a buddy
using
> msn 5, the transfer initializes and I can see a mapped port in upnp table,
> but befor any bits are transmitted, it stops and gives me the information
> that file could not be sent.
>
> CU
>
> "John Holmes [MSFT]" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> ...
> > Actually, we spent a fair bit of time working on the A/V connectivity in
> v6.
> > It should now work through many non-UPnP NATs which it used to fail for,
> as
> > long as both parties are using v6.
> >
> > However, there is still some class of NATs through which I cannot make a
> > direct peer-to-peer connection. If you have one of these NATs, webcam
will
> > still work (because it falls back to go through a central server), as
will
> > file transfer (for the same reason), but audio (and video conferencing)
> will
> > not, since they have no fallback mechanism.
> >
> > Dave, it may be that your router falls into this class (called
> "symmetric")
> > of devices, in which case there's nothing you can do to get audio to
work
> in
> > messenger, at least until we have a fallback mechanism to send audio
> through
> > a server.
> >
> > --
> > John Holmes
> > Developer, MSN Messenger
> >
> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights.
> > Please do not send e-mail directly to this alias. This alias is for
> > newsgroup purposes only.
> >
> >
> > "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Greetings Dave,
> > >
> > > In MSN Messenger 6, there have been some various changes to allow you
to
> > use the features
> > > you've mentioned below, however audio conversations are the same as
> > Messenger 4.x and 5.x
> > > versions -- they require Universal Plug and Play (UPnP) in order for
it
> to
> > be successful.
> > >
> > > For comparison purposes, Yahoo Messenger's features (file/video/voice)
> > first try twisted tcp
> > > (that is, if one side can't connect to the other, it tries from the
> other
> > side) and then use
> > > a central server if a direct connection can't be established. MSN
> > Messenger 6's file feature
> > > does make use of this, the new "Webcam" feature somewhat does, but
voice
> > has remained the
> > > same as before.
> > > ____________________________________________
> > > Jonathan Kay
> > > Windows MVP, Messenger
> > > Associate Expert
> > > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> > > Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
> > >
> > > "Dave" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > I've downloaded and installed the beta of Messenger V6. I know it's
a
> > beta
> > > > _and_ I'm not expecting any support.
> > > > I use a Solwise SAR110 modem router (shared via a plain jane hub) to
> > access
> > > > my ADSL account. MSN V6 does the instant messenger bit and it allows
> > file
> > > > transfers fine. Video works as well but audio does not.
> > > > The SAR110 does NAT and is not a UPNP firewall. I have it
"stealthed"
> ie
> > > > ports hidden etc.
> > > > The thing is that Yahoo Instant Messenger gets through the firewall
> "out
> > of
> > > > the box". Video, voice and file transfers work fine.
> > > > Is this because the MSN is beta and it's going to be fixed?
> > > > Please don't say that I must open ports 5004 to 65K+ 'cos that will
> not
> > > > happen!.
> > > > If Yahoo can do it why cant MSN? (yet?????????????).
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[DCH]

Hi John,

like I wrote, with v5 under XP UPnP-enabled all functions work perfectly,
UPnP does it all .. A/V, Xfer, Whiteboard, AppSharing, Remote ... I can see
UPnP opening the ports and closing them after use ... perfectly! When I use
v6, also everything is perfect (A/V, Whiteboard, AppSharing, Remote), except
xfer, although I can see a via UPnP opend port (but with different service
name in UPnP table), I am not able to send files to v5-users .. only
v6-users. Hope you can fix this.

CU


"John Holmes [MSFT]" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
> Hm. This is the 2nd time I recall hearing someone say things aren't
working
> right with a netgear fr114p. I'll try to have our test team get one and
see
> what the issues are.
>
> Did AV work in v5 for you? In v6 we've changed the way we do UPnP for file
> transfer to more closely match what we do for AV and also to provide
support
> on non XP systems.
>
> --
> John Holmes
> Developer, MSN Messenger
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
> Please do not send e-mail directly to this alias. This alias is for
> newsgroup purposes only.
>
>
> "DCH" > wrote in message
> ...
> > But why does upnp work for me with all features in msn 5 (netgear
fr114p)
> > and not so in msn 6? I mean, upnp works in msn 6 for me concerning all
> > featrures except xfer. When I transfer a file from my msn 6 to a buddy
> using
> > msn 5, the transfer initializes and I can see a mapped port in upnp
table,
> > but befor any bits are transmitted, it stops and gives me the
information
> > that file could not be sent.
> >
> > CU
> >
> > "John Holmes [MSFT]" > schrieb im
Newsbeitrag
> > ...
> > > Actually, we spent a fair bit of time working on the A/V connectivity
in
> > v6.
> > > It should now work through many non-UPnP NATs which it used to fail
for,
> > as
> > > long as both parties are using v6.
> > >
> > > However, there is still some class of NATs through which I cannot make
a
> > > direct peer-to-peer connection. If you have one of these NATs, webcam
> will
> > > still work (because it falls back to go through a central server), as
> will
> > > file transfer (for the same reason), but audio (and video
conferencing)
> > will
> > > not, since they have no fallback mechanism.
> > >
> > > Dave, it may be that your router falls into this class (called
> > "symmetric")
> > > of devices, in which case there's nothing you can do to get audio to
> work
> > in
> > > messenger, at least until we have a fallback mechanism to send audio
> > through
> > > a server.
> > >
> > > --
> > > John Holmes
> > > Developer, MSN Messenger
> > >
> > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> > rights.
> > > Please do not send e-mail directly to this alias. This alias is for
> > > newsgroup purposes only.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Greetings Dave,
> > > >
> > > > In MSN Messenger 6, there have been some various changes to allow
you
> to
> > > use the features
> > > > you've mentioned below, however audio conversations are the same as
> > > Messenger 4.x and 5.x
> > > > versions -- they require Universal Plug and Play (UPnP) in order for
> it
> > to
> > > be successful.
> > > >
> > > > For comparison purposes, Yahoo Messenger's features
(file/video/voice)
> > > first try twisted tcp
> > > > (that is, if one side can't connect to the other, it tries from the
> > other
> > > side) and then use
> > > > a central server if a direct connection can't be established. MSN
> > > Messenger 6's file feature
> > > > does make use of this, the new "Webcam" feature somewhat does, but
> voice
> > > has remained the
> > > > same as before.
> > > > ____________________________________________
> > > > Jonathan Kay
> > > > Windows MVP, Messenger
> > > > Associate Expert
> > > > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> > > > Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
> > > >
> > > > "Dave" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > I've downloaded and installed the beta of Messenger V6. I know
it's
> a
> > > beta
> > > > > _and_ I'm not expecting any support.
> > > > > I use a Solwise SAR110 modem router (shared via a plain jane hub)
to
> > > access
> > > > > my ADSL account. MSN V6 does the instant messenger bit and it
allows
> > > file
> > > > > transfers fine. Video works as well but audio does not.
> > > > > The SAR110 does NAT and is not a UPNP firewall. I have it
> "stealthed"
> > ie
> > > > > ports hidden etc.
> > > > > The thing is that Yahoo Instant Messenger gets through the
firewall
> > "out
> > > of
> > > > > the box". Video, voice and file transfers work fine.
> > > > > Is this because the MSN is beta and it's going to be fixed?
> > > > > Please don't say that I must open ports 5004 to 65K+ 'cos that
will
> > not
> > > > > happen!.
> > > > > If Yahoo can do it why cant MSN? (yet?????????????).
> > > > > Dave
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[John Holmes [MSFT]]

When you send files to v6 users, does the transfer go quickly or slowly?
Does a message pop up in the top of the conversation window that says the
transfer may be going slowly? (when that pops up, it means we could not get
a direct connection, but are going through our server).

I've asked a tester to try to reproduce this failure. We don't have that
particular NAT, but if we can't reproduce it with one of our test NATs, I'll
try to find one of the fr114p's.

What version of the fr114p firmware do you have?

--
John Holmes
Developer, MSN Messenger

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Please do not send e-mail directly to this alias. This alias is for
newsgroup purposes only.


"DCH" > wrote in message
...
> Hi John,
>
> like I wrote, with v5 under XP UPnP-enabled all functions work perfectly,
> UPnP does it all .. A/V, Xfer, Whiteboard, AppSharing, Remote ... I can
see
> UPnP opening the ports and closing them after use ... perfectly! When I
use
> v6, also everything is perfect (A/V, Whiteboard, AppSharing, Remote),
except
> xfer, although I can see a via UPnP opend port (but with different service
> name in UPnP table), I am not able to send files to v5-users .. only
> v6-users. Hope you can fix this.
>
> CU
>
>
> "John Holmes [MSFT]" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> ...
> > Hm. This is the 2nd time I recall hearing someone say things aren't
> working
> > right with a netgear fr114p. I'll try to have our test team get one and
> see
> > what the issues are.
> >
> > Did AV work in v5 for you? In v6 we've changed the way we do UPnP for
file
> > transfer to more closely match what we do for AV and also to provide
> support
> > on non XP systems.
> >
> > --
> > John Holmes
> > Developer, MSN Messenger
> >
> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights.
> > Please do not send e-mail directly to this alias. This alias is for
> > newsgroup purposes only.
> >
> >
> > "DCH" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > But why does upnp work for me with all features in msn 5 (netgear
> fr114p)
> > > and not so in msn 6? I mean, upnp works in msn 6 for me concerning all
> > > featrures except xfer. When I transfer a file from my msn 6 to a buddy
> > using
> > > msn 5, the transfer initializes and I can see a mapped port in upnp
> table,
> > > but befor any bits are transmitted, it stops and gives me the
> information
> > > that file could not be sent.
> > >
> > > CU
> > >
> > > "John Holmes [MSFT]" > schrieb im
> Newsbeitrag
> > > ...
> > > > Actually, we spent a fair bit of time working on the A/V
connectivity
> in
> > > v6.
> > > > It should now work through many non-UPnP NATs which it used to fail
> for,
> > > as
> > > > long as both parties are using v6.
> > > >
> > > > However, there is still some class of NATs through which I cannot
make
> a
> > > > direct peer-to-peer connection. If you have one of these NATs,
webcam
> > will
> > > > still work (because it falls back to go through a central server),
as
> > will
> > > > file transfer (for the same reason), but audio (and video
> conferencing)
> > > will
> > > > not, since they have no fallback mechanism.
> > > >
> > > > Dave, it may be that your router falls into this class (called
> > > "symmetric")
> > > > of devices, in which case there's nothing you can do to get audio to
> > work
> > > in
> > > > messenger, at least until we have a fallback mechanism to send audio
> > > through
> > > > a server.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > John Holmes
> > > > Developer, MSN Messenger
> > > >
> > > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> > > rights.
> > > > Please do not send e-mail directly to this alias. This alias is for
> > > > newsgroup purposes only.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" > wrote in
message
> > > > ...
> > > > > Greetings Dave,
> > > > >
> > > > > In MSN Messenger 6, there have been some various changes to allow
> you
> > to
> > > > use the features
> > > > > you've mentioned below, however audio conversations are the same
as
> > > > Messenger 4.x and 5.x
> > > > > versions -- they require Universal Plug and Play (UPnP) in order
for
> > it
> > > to
> > > > be successful.
> > > > >
> > > > > For comparison purposes, Yahoo Messenger's features
> (file/video/voice)
> > > > first try twisted tcp
> > > > > (that is, if one side can't connect to the other, it tries from
the
> > > other
> > > > side) and then use
> > > > > a central server if a direct connection can't be established. MSN
> > > > Messenger 6's file feature
> > > > > does make use of this, the new "Webcam" feature somewhat does, but
> > voice
> > > > has remained the
> > > > > same as before.
> > > > > ____________________________________________
> > > > > Jonathan Kay
> > > > > Windows MVP, Messenger
> > > > > Associate Expert
> > > > > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> > > > > Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
> > > > >
> > > > > "Dave" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > I've downloaded and installed the beta of Messenger V6. I know
> it's
> > a
> > > > beta
> > > > > > _and_ I'm not expecting any support.
> > > > > > I use a Solwise SAR110 modem router (shared via a plain jane
hub)
> to
> > > > access
> > > > > > my ADSL account. MSN V6 does the instant messenger bit and it
> allows
> > > > file
> > > > > > transfers fine. Video works as well but audio does not.
> > > > > > The SAR110 does NAT and is not a UPNP firewall. I have it
> > "stealthed"
> > > ie
> > > > > > ports hidden etc.
> > > > > > The thing is that Yahoo Instant Messenger gets through the
> firewall
> > > "out
> > > > of
> > > > > > the box". Video, voice and file transfers work fine.
> > > > > > Is this because the MSN is beta and it's going to be fixed?
> > > > > > Please don't say that I must open ports 5004 to 65K+ 'cos that
> will
> > > not
> > > > > > happen!.
> > > > > > If Yahoo can do it why cant MSN? (yet?????????????).
> > > > > > Dave
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[DCH]

Hi John,
xfer goes just straight with normal speed (with out pop up) when files are
send from v6 to v6.
I use the latest firmware release 1423, but upnp work´s great since release
1420 for netgear fr114p.
An other oberservation in v6 here: xfer to an v5-user in wan is not possible
at all, even if I set the router in dmz. Xfer to an other client in my lan
(it is using v5 of msn) is only possible when I am in dmz.

Greetings
Carsten

CU

"John Holmes [MSFT]" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
> When you send files to v6 users, does the transfer go quickly or slowly?
> Does a message pop up in the top of the conversation window that says the
> transfer may be going slowly? (when that pops up, it means we could not
get
> a direct connection, but are going through our server).
>
> I've asked a tester to try to reproduce this failure. We don't have that
> particular NAT, but if we can't reproduce it with one of our test NATs,
I'll
> try to find one of the fr114p's.
>
> What version of the fr114p firmware do you have?
>
> --
> John Holmes
> Developer, MSN Messenger
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
> Please do not send e-mail directly to this alias. This alias is for
> newsgroup purposes only.
>
>
> "DCH" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi John,
> >
> > like I wrote, with v5 under XP UPnP-enabled all functions work
perfectly,
> > UPnP does it all .. A/V, Xfer, Whiteboard, AppSharing, Remote ... I can
> see
> > UPnP opening the ports and closing them after use ... perfectly! When I
> use
> > v6, also everything is perfect (A/V, Whiteboard, AppSharing, Remote),
> except
> > xfer, although I can see a via UPnP opend port (but with different
service
> > name in UPnP table), I am not able to send files to v5-users .. only
> > v6-users. Hope you can fix this.
> >
> > CU
> >
> >
> > "John Holmes [MSFT]" > schrieb im
Newsbeitrag
> > ...
> > > Hm. This is the 2nd time I recall hearing someone say things aren't
> > working
> > > right with a netgear fr114p. I'll try to have our test team get one
and
> > see
> > > what the issues are.
> > >
> > > Did AV work in v5 for you? In v6 we've changed the way we do UPnP for
> file
> > > transfer to more closely match what we do for AV and also to provide
> > support
> > > on non XP systems.
> > >
> > > --
> > > John Holmes
> > > Developer, MSN Messenger
> > >
> > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> > rights.
> > > Please do not send e-mail directly to this alias. This alias is for
> > > newsgroup purposes only.
> > >
> > >
> > > "DCH" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > But why does upnp work for me with all features in msn 5 (netgear
> > fr114p)
> > > > and not so in msn 6? I mean, upnp works in msn 6 for me concerning
all
> > > > featrures except xfer. When I transfer a file from my msn 6 to a
buddy
> > > using
> > > > msn 5, the transfer initializes and I can see a mapped port in upnp
> > table,
> > > > but befor any bits are transmitted, it stops and gives me the
> > information
> > > > that file could not be sent.
> > > >
> > > > CU
> > > >
> > > > "John Holmes [MSFT]" > schrieb im
> > Newsbeitrag
> > > > ...
> > > > > Actually, we spent a fair bit of time working on the A/V
> connectivity
> > in
> > > > v6.
> > > > > It should now work through many non-UPnP NATs which it used to
fail
> > for,
> > > > as
> > > > > long as both parties are using v6.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, there is still some class of NATs through which I cannot
> make
> > a
> > > > > direct peer-to-peer connection. If you have one of these NATs,
> webcam
> > > will
> > > > > still work (because it falls back to go through a central server),
> as
> > > will
> > > > > file transfer (for the same reason), but audio (and video
> > conferencing)
> > > > will
> > > > > not, since they have no fallback mechanism.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave, it may be that your router falls into this class (called
> > > > "symmetric")
> > > > > of devices, in which case there's nothing you can do to get audio
to
> > > work
> > > > in
> > > > > messenger, at least until we have a fallback mechanism to send
audio
> > > > through
> > > > > a server.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > John Holmes
> > > > > Developer, MSN Messenger
> > > > >
> > > > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no
> > > > rights.
> > > > > Please do not send e-mail directly to this alias. This alias is
for
> > > > > newsgroup purposes only.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" > wrote in
> message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > Greetings Dave,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In MSN Messenger 6, there have been some various changes to
allow
> > you
> > > to
> > > > > use the features
> > > > > > you've mentioned below, however audio conversations are the same
> as
> > > > > Messenger 4.x and 5.x
> > > > > > versions -- they require Universal Plug and Play (UPnP) in order
> for
> > > it
> > > > to
> > > > > be successful.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For comparison purposes, Yahoo Messenger's features
> > (file/video/voice)
> > > > > first try twisted tcp
> > > > > > (that is, if one side can't connect to the other, it tries from
> the
> > > > other
> > > > > side) and then use
> > > > > > a central server if a direct connection can't be established.
MSN
> > > > > Messenger 6's file feature
> > > > > > does make use of this, the new "Webcam" feature somewhat does,
but
> > > voice
> > > > > has remained the
> > > > > > same as before.
> > > > > > ____________________________________________
> > > > > > Jonathan Kay
> > > > > > Windows MVP, Messenger
> > > > > > Associate Expert
> > > > > > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> > > > > > Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Dave" > wrote in message
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > I've downloaded and installed the beta of Messenger V6. I know
> > it's
> > > a
> > > > > beta
> > > > > > > _and_ I'm not expecting any support.
> > > > > > > I use a Solwise SAR110 modem router (shared via a plain jane
> hub)
> > to
> > > > > access
> > > > > > > my ADSL account. MSN V6 does the instant messenger bit and it
> > allows
> > > > > file
> > > > > > > transfers fine. Video works as well but audio does not.
> > > > > > > The SAR110 does NAT and is not a UPNP firewall. I have it
> > > "stealthed"
> > > > ie
> > > > > > > ports hidden etc.
> > > > > > > The thing is that Yahoo Instant Messenger gets through the
> > firewall
> > > > "out
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the box". Video, voice and file transfers work fine.
> > > > > > > Is this because the MSN is beta and it's going to be fixed?
> > > > > > > Please don't say that I must open ports 5004 to 65K+ 'cos that
> > will
> > > > not
> > > > > > > happen!.
> > > > > > > If Yahoo can do it why cant MSN? (yet?????????????).
> > > > > > > Dave
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>