OT - How to pitch a business idea to MS

[Alex]

My question is: how, where and to whom do you pitch a business
idea at Microsoft Inc.

I know this topic might be off-topic (see title), but I can't think
of any other newsgroup and the newsreader I'm using can't get
any of the developers groups, for instance.

So my question is - does microsoft have some kind of idea bin,
or some department of the corporation where you can pitch an idea
or a product?

Alex

[Mike Brannigan [MSFT]]

Before you approach any company with a potential "idea" seek professional
advice on how to protect your rights to this idea if you intend to try and
make money from it.
Seek advice around intellectual property rights and patents etc.
Do not disclose you idea to anyone and never to a general public forum such
as this before you have been professionally advised.

Once you are happy with your protection of your "idea" etc then you can
begin to approach companies with it.
(There is more to protecting an idea - which is why you need professional
advice)

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions.
Please use these newsgroups

"Alex" > wrote in message
...
> My question is: how, where and to whom do you pitch a business
> idea at Microsoft Inc.
>
> I know this topic might be off-topic (see title), but I can't think
> of any other newsgroup and the newsreader I'm using can't get
> any of the developers groups, for instance.
>
> So my question is - does microsoft have some kind of idea bin,
> or some department of the corporation where you can pitch an idea
> or a product?
>
> Alex
>
>
>
>

[Siegfried Weber [MVP]]

There is a feedback page somewhere on microsoft.com and you can also send an
e-mail to

--
<Cheers:Siegfried runat="server" />

Development Lead,

CDOLive LLC - The Microsoft Messaging and Collaboration Application
Experts http://www.cdolive.com


"Alex" > wrote in message:
>
> My question is: how, where and to whom do you pitch a business
> idea at Microsoft Inc.
>
> I know this topic might be off-topic (see title), but I can't think
> of any other newsgroup and the newsreader I'm using can't get
> any of the developers groups, for instance.
>
> So my question is - does microsoft have some kind of idea bin,
> or some department of the corporation where you can pitch an idea
> or a product?
>
> Alex

[Len Segal]

Alex,

Mike is right on here!

Find yourself an Intellectual Property Attorney and work with him/her to
protect your rights. They should also know how to make contact with the
right people within MS to pitch your idea.

--

Regards,
Len Segal, MCP
Microsoft - MVP
--------------
My reply address is intentionally wrong to reduce SPAM Email.
NOTE: We do not respond to unsolicited Email support questions,
please post questions in newsgroup.

"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" > wrote in message
...
> Before you approach any company with a potential "idea" seek professional
> advice on how to protect your rights to this idea if you intend to try and
> make money from it.
> Seek advice around intellectual property rights and patents etc.
> Do not disclose you idea to anyone and never to a general public forum
such
> as this before you have been professionally advised.
>
> Once you are happy with your protection of your "idea" etc then you can
> begin to approach companies with it.
> (There is more to protecting an idea - which is why you need professional
> advice)
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Mike
> --
> Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/24/2003

[Mike Turco]

"Alex" > wrote in message
...
> My question is: how, where and to whom do you pitch a business
> idea at Microsoft Inc.

Alex,

A "business idea"? From what I've seen, Microsoft buys, (or buys into, or
flat out crushes,) existing businesses that are successful and/or have a lot
of potential. I've never heard of MS or any other company that is interested
in "ideas" from the general public.

I'm not saying that your idea doesn't have merit, just that if you want to
do something with it, you'll have to turn it into a reality. Undeveloped
ideas are like dreams: they can be entertaining, but they are of no monetary
value.

If you want to do something with your idea, like start a business with the
intention of developing that business with the intention of selling it off
some day, you might post to the newsgroup misc.entrepreneurs.moderated for
advice in that area.

Good Luck!

Mike

[baracooda]

Is it safe to assume that MS is a humble company when comes to product
improve suggestions.

Apple on the other hand have a very un-inviting policy.
Check here:
http://www.apple.com/legal/default.html#unsolicited

According to the Apple's website, Apple simply do not accept any outside
ideas. I wonder how does Microsoft deals with floods and floods of product
suggestions without risk of lawsuits?

"Mike Turco" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Alex" > wrote in message
> ...
> > My question is: how, where and to whom do you pitch a business
> > idea at Microsoft Inc.
>
> Alex,
>
> A "business idea"? From what I've seen, Microsoft buys, (or buys into, or
> flat out crushes,) existing businesses that are successful and/or have a
lot
> of potential. I've never heard of MS or any other company that is
interested
> in "ideas" from the general public.
>
> I'm not saying that your idea doesn't have merit, just that if you want to
> do something with it, you'll have to turn it into a reality. Undeveloped
> ideas are like dreams: they can be entertaining, but they are of no
monetary
> value.
>
> If you want to do something with your idea, like start a business with the
> intention of developing that business with the intention of selling it off
> some day, you might post to the newsgroup misc.entrepreneurs.moderated for
> advice in that area.
>
> Good Luck!
>
> Mike
>
>

[David Candy]

They don't accept either. If they're working on the same idea it makes =
it legally messy.
Though it looks like they stole Apples policy (though apple is a part MS =
owned company).

Unsolicited Idea Submission Policy
Microsoft or any of its employees do not accept or consider unsolicited =
ideas, including ideas for new advertising campaigns, new promotions, =
new products or technologies, processes, materials, marketing plans or =
new product names. Please do not send any original creative artwork, =
samples, demos, or other works. The sole purpose of this policy is to =
avoid potential misunderstandings or disputes when Microsoft's products =
or marketing strategies might seem similar to ideas submitted to =
Microsoft. So, please do not send your unsolicited ideas to Microsoft or =
anyone at Microsoft. If, despite our request that you not send us your =
ideas and materials, you still send them, please understand that =
Microsoft makes no assurances that your ideas and materials will be =
treated as confidential or proprietary.

From =
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/tpcsdk10/html/legal/msclegalinfor=
mation.asp?frame=3Dtrue

--=20
http://www.g2mil.com/Apr2003.htm
http://prorev.com/forbesrussia.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------
David Candy
http://www.mvps.org/serenitymacros
---------------------------------------------------------------
"baracooda" > wrote in message =
...
> Is it safe to assume that MS is a humble company when comes to =
product
> improve suggestions.
>=20
> Apple on the other hand have a very un-inviting policy.
> Check here:
> http://www.apple.com/legal/default.html#unsolicited
>=20
> According to the Apple's website, Apple simply do not accept any =
outside
> ideas. I wonder how does Microsoft deals with floods and floods of =
product
> suggestions without risk of lawsuits?
>=20
> "Mike Turco" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Alex" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > My question is: how, where and to whom do you pitch a business
> > > idea at Microsoft Inc.
> >
> > Alex,
> >
> > A "business idea"? From what I've seen, Microsoft buys, (or buys =
into, or
> > flat out crushes,) existing businesses that are successful and/or =
have a
> lot
> > of potential. I've never heard of MS or any other company that is
> interested
> > in "ideas" from the general public.
> >
> > I'm not saying that your idea doesn't have merit, just that if you =
want to
> > do something with it, you'll have to turn it into a reality. =
Undeveloped
> > ideas are like dreams: they can be entertaining, but they are of no
> monetary
> > value.
> >
> > If you want to do something with your idea, like start a business =
with the
> > intention of developing that business with the intention of selling =
it off
> > some day, you might post to the newsgroup =
misc.entrepreneurs.moderated for
> > advice in that area.
> >
> > Good Luck!
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
>=20
>=20

[Mike Brannigan [MSFT]]

You may submit product improvements at
http://register.microsoft.com/mswish/suggestion.asp?from=cu&fu=%2Fisapi%2Fgomscom%2Easp%3Ftarget%3D%2Fmswish%2 Fthanks%2Ehtm

But please note if you
"...
By offering suggestions through this page, you give Microsoft full
permission to use them freely. We can't guarantee we will use your
suggestions, but we will review them for use in future products. Due to the
volume and variety of suggestions, we can't provide compensation or personal
responses to each suggestion.
...."
--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions.
Please use these newsgroups

"baracooda" > wrote in message
...
> Is it safe to assume that MS is a humble company when comes to product
> improve suggestions.
>
> Apple on the other hand have a very un-inviting policy.
> Check here:
> http://www.apple.com/legal/default.html#unsolicited
>
> According to the Apple's website, Apple simply do not accept any outside
> ideas. I wonder how does Microsoft deals with floods and floods of product
> suggestions without risk of lawsuits?
>
> "Mike Turco" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Alex" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > My question is: how, where and to whom do you pitch a business
> > > idea at Microsoft Inc.
> >
> > Alex,
> >
> > A "business idea"? From what I've seen, Microsoft buys, (or buys into,
or
> > flat out crushes,) existing businesses that are successful and/or have a
> lot
> > of potential. I've never heard of MS or any other company that is
> interested
> > in "ideas" from the general public.
> >
> > I'm not saying that your idea doesn't have merit, just that if you want
to
> > do something with it, you'll have to turn it into a reality. Undeveloped
> > ideas are like dreams: they can be entertaining, but they are of no
> monetary
> > value.
> >
> > If you want to do something with your idea, like start a business with
the
> > intention of developing that business with the intention of selling it
off
> > some day, you might post to the newsgroup misc.entrepreneurs.moderated
for
> > advice in that area.
> >
> > Good Luck!
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
>
>

[baracooda]

I don't expect any body to foolishly sends and good product idea to
Microsoft or any other company without patent protection.
But according to all the legal mumbo-jumbo, it still doesn't sound Microsoft
is inviting inventor to submit good patented ideas. Perhaps most unsolicited
ideas aren't any good. The man-hours needed to review all the submissions
aren't worth it.
But if a good idea is indeed a good idea, it will probably eventually
survived to get noticed by Microsoft. Who knows if big company like
Microsoft actually dealt with a private inventor before?

"David Candy" > wrote in message
...
They don't accept either. If they're working on the same idea it makes it
legally messy.
Though it looks like they stole Apples policy (though apple is a part MS
owned company).

Unsolicited Idea Submission Policy
Microsoft or any of its employees do not accept or consider unsolicited
ideas, including ideas for new advertising campaigns, new promotions, new
products or technologies, processes, materials, marketing plans or new
product names. Please do not send any original creative artwork, samples,
demos, or other works. The sole purpose of this policy is to avoid potential
misunderstandings or disputes when Microsoft's products or marketing
strategies might seem similar to ideas submitted to Microsoft. So, please do
not send your unsolicited ideas to Microsoft or anyone at Microsoft. If,
despite our request that you not send us your ideas and materials, you still
send them, please understand that Microsoft makes no assurances that your
ideas and materials will be treated as confidential or proprietary.

From
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/tpcsdk10/html/legal/msclegalinformation.asp?frame=true

--
http://www.g2mil.com/Apr2003.htm
http://prorev.com/forbesrussia.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------
David Candy
http://www.mvps.org/serenitymacros
---------------------------------------------------------------
"baracooda" > wrote in message
...
> Is it safe to assume that MS is a humble company when comes to product
> improve suggestions.
>
> Apple on the other hand have a very un-inviting policy.
> Check here:
> http://www.apple.com/legal/default.html#unsolicited
>
> According to the Apple's website, Apple simply do not accept any outside
> ideas. I wonder how does Microsoft deals with floods and floods of product
> suggestions without risk of lawsuits?
>
> "Mike Turco" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Alex" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > My question is: how, where and to whom do you pitch a business
> > > idea at Microsoft Inc.
> >
> > Alex,
> >
> > A "business idea"? From what I've seen, Microsoft buys, (or buys into,
or
> > flat out crushes,) existing businesses that are successful and/or have a
> lot
> > of potential. I've never heard of MS or any other company that is
> interested
> > in "ideas" from the general public.
> >
> > I'm not saying that your idea doesn't have merit, just that if you want
to
> > do something with it, you'll have to turn it into a reality. Undeveloped
> > ideas are like dreams: they can be entertaining, but they are of no
> monetary
> > value.
> >
> > If you want to do something with your idea, like start a business with
the
> > intention of developing that business with the intention of selling it
off
> > some day, you might post to the newsgroup misc.entrepreneurs.moderated
for
> > advice in that area.
> >
> > Good Luck!
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
>
>

[Rodney]

baracooda wrote:
> I don't expect any body to foolishly sends and good product idea to
> Microsoft or any other company without patent protection.

Heck, I do it every day

> But according to all the legal mumbo-jumbo, it still doesn't sound Microsoft
> is inviting inventor to submit good patented ideas. Perhaps most unsolicited
> ideas aren't any good.

I never send one unsolicited though


Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Boomerang Fishing Pro. , Straight Up Hooks
Mojo's Rock Hopper, and Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://ezknot.com

[Kent W. England [MVP]]

Amen. Venture capitalists love to hear in your business plan how you
intend to cash out, by selling your company to Microsoft. A Microsoft
buy is the holy grail of software startups, as a cisco buy was the holy
grail of telecomm startups.

An idea is worth nothing. It takes an idea, a reputation (yours or a
partner's), a patent or a barrier to entry, and a good plan (good as
deemed by your financier) to turn an idea into money. Cash flow, market
size, market share, intellectual property, and a six month jump on the
competition are the keys to a good plan.

But by all means, see if your idea is patentable.

--
Kent W. England, Microsoft MVP for Windows


"Mike Turco" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Alex" > wrote in message
> ...
> > My question is: how, where and to whom do you pitch a business
> > idea at Microsoft Inc.
>
> Alex,
>
> A "business idea"? From what I've seen, Microsoft buys, (or buys into,
or
> flat out crushes,) existing businesses that are successful and/or have
a lot
> of potential. I've never heard of MS or any other company that is
interested
> in "ideas" from the general public.
>
> I'm not saying that your idea doesn't have merit, just that if you
want to
> do something with it, you'll have to turn it into a reality.
Undeveloped
> ideas are like dreams: they can be entertaining, but they are of no
monetary
> value.
>
> If you want to do something with your idea, like start a business with
the
> intention of developing that business with the intention of selling it
off
> some day, you might post to the newsgroup misc.entrepreneurs.moderated
for
> advice in that area.

[Anne Avellone]

Rodney:

How many product ideas has Microsoft solicited from you?

David M. Geshwind
Registered Patent Agent
<http://www.unipat.org>

Rodney > wrote in article >...
>
>
> baracooda wrote:
> > I don't expect any body to foolishly sends and good product idea to
> > Microsoft or any other company without patent protection.
>
> Heck, I do it every day
>
> > But according to all the legal mumbo-jumbo, it still doesn't sound
Microsoft
> > is inviting inventor to submit good patented ideas. Perhaps most
unsolicited
> > ideas aren't any good.
>
> I never send one unsolicited though
>
>
> Rodney Long,
> Inventor of the Boomerang Fishing Pro. , Straight Up Hooks
> Mojo's Rock Hopper, and Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
> http://ezknot.com
>
>

[Rodney]

Anne Avellone wrote:
> Rodney:
>
> How many product ideas has Microsoft solicited from you?

If you will notice what I responded to, it included any "other" companies

I never send any invention out unsolicited, I always contact the person
who makes decisions for the company first, then I get them interested,
then they ask to see what I have, and I always do this "without patent
protection".

We get the patent once the contract is signed sealed, and delivered,

NEVER A NEED TO, BEFORE THEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>
> David M. Geshwind
> Registered Patent Agent
> <http://www.unipat.org>
>
> Rodney > wrote in article >...
>
>>
>>baracooda wrote:
>>
>>>I don't expect any body to foolishly sends and good product idea to
>>>Microsoft or any other company without patent protection.
>>
>>Heck, I do it every day
>>
>>
>>>But according to all the legal mumbo-jumbo, it still doesn't sound
>>
> Microsoft
>
>>>is inviting inventor to submit good patented ideas. Perhaps most
>>
> unsolicited
>
>>>ideas aren't any good.
>>
>>I never send one unsolicited though
>>
>>
>>Rodney Long,
>>Inventor of the Boomerang Fishing Pro. , Straight Up Hooks
>>Mojo's Rock Hopper, and Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
>>http://ezknot.com
>>
>>
>


--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Boomerang Fishing Pro. , Straight Up Hooks
Mojo's Rock Hopper, and Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://ezknot.com

[baracooda]

Rodney > wrote in message >...
> Anne Avellone wrote:
> > Rodney:
> >
> > How many product ideas has Microsoft solicited from you?
>
> If you will notice what I responded to, it included any "other" companies
>
> I never send any invention out unsolicited, I always contact the person
> who makes decisions for the company first,

This is easier said than done. Should I just ask the receptionist, Who
makes decisions around here? Bill?

>then I get them interested,
> then they ask to see what I have, and I always do this "without patent
> protection".

Certain industry won't review any product idea without a patent. Your
strategy can't always be applied.
>
> We get the patent once the contract is signed sealed, and delivered,
>
> NEVER A NEED TO, BEFORE THEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> >
> > David M. Geshwind
> > Registered Patent Agent
> > <http://www.unipat.org>
> >
> > Rodney > wrote in article >...
> >
> >>
> >>baracooda wrote:
> >>
> >>>I don't expect any body to foolishly sends and good product idea to
> >>>Microsoft or any other company without patent protection.
> >>
> >>Heck, I do it every day
> >>
> >>
> >>>But according to all the legal mumbo-jumbo, it still doesn't sound
> >>
> > Microsoft
> >
> >>>is inviting inventor to submit good patented ideas. Perhaps most
> >>
> > unsolicited
> >
> >>>ideas aren't any good.
> >>
> >>I never send one unsolicited though
> >>
> >>
> >>Rodney Long,
> >>Inventor of the Boomerang Fishing Pro. , Straight Up Hooks
> >>Mojo's Rock Hopper, and Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
> >>http://ezknot.com
> >>
> >>
> >

[Rodney]

baracooda wrote:
> Rodney > wrote in message >...
>
>>Anne Avellone wrote:
>>
>>>Rodney:
>>>
>>>How many product ideas has Microsoft solicited from you?
>>
>>If you will notice what I responded to, it included any "other" companies
>>
>>I never send any invention out unsolicited, I always contact the person
>>who makes decisions for the company first,
>
>
> This is easier said than done. Should I just ask the receptionist, Who
> makes decisions around here? Bill?
>


It is easier said, than done, it comes from "learning" your market, that
is personally learning the players in your market. (These players are
the chief operating officers, and/or those under them)

What you become is an outside, insider. Although you don't work for
them, you are known by them. Is this easy ? HEll No, it's not easy.

It takes salesmanship, you must sell yourself, your abilities, your
desire to break into their market, on their rules. The best way to do
this is at trade shows, the bigger the trade show, the better. You walk
around, and introduce yourself, not trying to sell your invention/s, but
yourself. You ask questions, you make them feel important, you ask for
advice on how to show your inventions to companies, you ask what they
are looking for in new products.

YOU NEVER SAY "I HAVE THIS GREAT NEW INVENTION THAT WILL SELL LIKE
CRAZY." YOU INSTEAD WANT THEIR OPINION, IF YOUR WORKING ON THE "RIGHT"
"TYPE" OF NEW PRODUCTS.

I can't teach you how to do this in a single email, or a dozen emails

Can you succeed in licensing with out doing it,, sure you can, about
once in 10,000 attempts

--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Boomerang Fishing Pro. , Straight Up Hooks
Mojo's Rock Hopper, and Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://ezknot.com

[Anne Avellone]

Rodney > wrote in article >...
> Anne Avellone wrote:
> > Rodney:
> >
> > How many product ideas has Microsoft solicited from you?
>
> If you will notice what I responded to, it included any "other" companies
>
Point taken.

But, my point (to make it explicit, now) is that consumer fishing vs.
computer science or telecom or biotech or most high-tech areas are very
different. You may be able to approach a fishing manufacturer (or from
inside the company you worked for, mining equipment manufacturers (do I
recall that right?)). But, from long experience, I know that large
high-tech (R&D driven) companies are not so easily contacted or enticed.

So, to be less round-about: How much experience do you have in contacting,
successfully geting NDAs from, and licensing to Microsoft, Apple, AOL Time
Warner, Intel, IBM, Verizon, MCI, GE, and the like?

I would not presume to advise someone on how to contact fishing lure
manufacturers, or similar mechanical, consumer product manufacturer. Not my
area of experience or expertise.

I suspect your experience while valid for you, is not generalizable to
successfully dealing with Microsoft and the like.

An often used model is to 1) patent, 2) start up a small venture, 3) get
your venture bought up to obtain your patents.
That's if it works ... if not step 3) is that they crush you instead.

Another model that can succeed is to try to license patent (or pending)
technology. Because they will not look at unprotected technology. Or, they
will NOT sign NDA. Or, they will rob you blind if you are not protected.

If you had ever seriously dealt with such a company, I believe you would be
less hostile to the idea that (in SOME cases) patenting before marketing
has its advantages.

I do NOT quarrel with YOUR approach for YOUR type of
invention/business/skill set/licensees.

But manufcturing/marketing companies are ALWAYS looking for new ideas from
the outside to bring into their product line.

R&D based companies look to develop their OWN technology. They almost never
go outside if not forced to.

So (at least sometimes) it is worth the gamble to be in a position to force
them to (e.g., be patented or pending).

Last point. I love the PPA. It gives you a year of "pending status" in
order to try to license without NDAs (to those who will not sign). This is
good for toys and games, consumer goods, and other product ideas for which
the market is already there. In high-tech you very frequently are inventing
well in advance of marketability. If you do not, others will have beaten
you to it.

For example, HDTV is JUST NOW begining to be marketable. But the patents
controling the technology all date back 10 years or more.

I, personally, have some applications pending for between 5 and 10 years,
for which the market is now on the horizon (if I have gambled correctly).
One requires that a significant market of private broadband connections
(e.g., DSL or cable modems) be installed for there to be a market. It has
been pending for almost 10 years. If I had waited until the market was
there, I would have lost out on the patents to others who filed as the
market became more obvious.

High-tech is a gamble that way. You have to invent so far ahead that even
the 1-year PPA window is not enough and you have to file a real utility
application (and foreign, if you want to go that very expensive route) long
before you are in a position to sell. It is a field for big companies, the
rich independent inventor, or the very dedicated visionary.

David M. Geshwind
Registered Patent Agent
UNIPAT
<http://www.unipat.org>





> I never send any invention out unsolicited, I always contact the person
> who makes decisions for the company first, then I get them interested,
> then they ask to see what I have, and I always do this "without patent
> protection".
>
> We get the patent once the contract is signed sealed, and delivered,
>
> NEVER A NEED TO, BEFORE THEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> >
> > David M. Geshwind
> > Registered Patent Agent
> > <http://www.unipat.org>
> >
> > Rodney > wrote in article
>...
> >
> >>
> >>baracooda wrote:
> >>
> >>>I don't expect any body to foolishly sends and good product idea to
> >>>Microsoft or any other company without patent protection.
> >>
> >>Heck, I do it every day
> >>
> >>
> >>>But according to all the legal mumbo-jumbo, it still doesn't sound
> >>
> > Microsoft
> >
> >>>is inviting inventor to submit good patented ideas. Perhaps most
> >>
> > unsolicited
> >
> >>>ideas aren't any good.
> >>
> >>I never send one unsolicited though
> >>
> >>
> >>Rodney Long,
> >>Inventor of the Boomerang Fishing Pro. , Straight Up Hooks
> >>Mojo's Rock Hopper, and Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
> >>http://ezknot.com
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> Rodney Long,
> Inventor of the Boomerang Fishing Pro. , Straight Up Hooks
> Mojo's Rock Hopper, and Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
> http://ezknot.com
>
>

[Rodney]

Anne Avellone wrote:
> Rodney > wrote in article >...
>
>>Anne Avellone wrote:
>>
>>>Rodney:
>>>
>>>How many product ideas has Microsoft solicited from you?
>>
>>If you will notice what I responded to, it included any "other" companies
>>
>
> Point taken.
>
> But, my point (to make it explicit, now) is that consumer fishing vs.
> computer science or telecom or biotech or most high-tech areas are very
> different. You may be able to approach a fishing manufacturer (or from
> inside the company you worked for, mining equipment manufacturers (do I
> recall that right?)). But, from long experience, I know that large
> high-tech (R&D driven) companies are not so easily contacted or enticed.


REALLY ?



>
> So, to be less round-about: How much experience do you have in contacting,
> successfully geting NDAs from, and licensing to Microsoft, Apple, AOL Time
> Warner, Intel, IBM, Verizon, MCI, GE, and the like?


I sat across the table with "Sylvania", not some little guys with them ,
but the CEO, Vice President, Head of marketing, and 4 lawyers signing
"my" NDA's. This was on my first meeting with them.

Have you sat across from the "big" guns with an IP before ? Did they pay
for the trip, have you, and your lawyer picked up in a lemo at the
airport. I did all this and they didn't even have a clue as to what I
had to offer them as an IP. They did it, because their number one
wholesaler (their number one customer) had signed an NDA, and did know
what I had, and they asked them to review my IP, one with no patent
protection

>
> I would not presume to advise someone on how to contact fishing lure
> manufacturers, or similar mechanical, consumer product manufacturer. Not my
> area of experience or expertise.

Your right, it's not your expertise, as these are tougher than any "High
Tech" mega company ever would be, these guys are the MEGA sharks,
everyone steals IP's until they are threatened to be sued, and many go
to court. The fishing industry is fast and furious, most "hot" products
are "hot" for a single season, you quickly steal, make millions, then
drop it when they go after you

>
> I suspect your experience while valid for you, is not generalizable to
> successfully dealing with Microsoft and the like.


It could easily be

>
> An often used model is to 1) patent, 2) start up a small venture, 3) get
> your venture bought up to obtain your patents.
> That's if it works ... if not step 3) is that they crush you instead.

Yes this has worked for a very few

>
> Another model that can succeed is to try to license patent (or pending)
> technology. Because they will not look at unprotected technology. Or, they
> will NOT sign NDA. Or, they will rob you blind if you are not protected.

WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't care what their internal rules are, they will brake them in a
heart beat, if you know "one" thing

>
> If you had ever seriously dealt with such a company, I believe you would be
> less hostile to the idea that (in SOME cases) patenting before marketing
> has its advantages.

But I have, you assume too much

>
> I do NOT quarrel with YOUR approach for YOUR type of
> invention/business/skill set/licensees.

How could you ? How many inventors do you "personally" know, licensed 7
inventions in a year ?

>
> But manufcturing/marketing companies are ALWAYS looking for new ideas from
> the outside to bring into their product line.

Your wrong again, "most" have hundreds of new products on the shelve,
that they could, and do bring to market. A few are looking, but very,
very few

>
> R&D based companies look to develop their OWN technology. They almost never
> go outside if not forced to.

Your right here, but there is "one" thing that changes their mind, and
their in house rules. Once you know the "one" thing, you can get them to
throw out all their old ways, and sign any NDA you throw at them

>
> So (at least sometimes) it is worth the gamble to be in a position to force
> them to (e.g., be patented or pending).

Yeah about 2% of the time, maybe, even those could be done without
pending first, if you know the "one" thing

>
> Last point. I love the PPA. It gives you a year of "pending status" in
> order to try to license without NDAs (to those who will not sign). This is
> good for toys and games, consumer goods, and other product ideas for which
> the market is already there.

Worst thing you can do is try to license with a PPA, that is in "most"
cases, it's fine in a few, but those few you don't need it in anyway, it
just does you no harm to have one in these few cases

In high-tech you very frequently are inventing
> well in advance of marketability. If you do not, others will have beaten
> you to it.

Over 90 % of the high tech stuff (that actually gets to the market) is
obsolete before the patent ever issues

>
> For example, HDTV is JUST NOW begining to be marketable. But the patents
> controling the technology all date back 10 years or more.

I said over 90%, not all of it :-)

>
> I, personally, have some applications pending for between 5 and 10 years,
> for which the market is now on the horizon (if I have gambled correctly).
> One requires that a significant market of private broadband connections
> (e.g., DSL or cable modems) be installed for there to be a market. It has
> been pending for almost 10 years.

I thought they stopped all that 10 years of patent pending games people
played


> If I had waited until the market was
> there, I would have lost out on the patents to others who filed as the
> market became more obvious.
>
> High-tech is a gamble that way. You have to invent so far ahead that even
> the 1-year PPA window is not enough and you have to file a real utility
> application (and foreign, if you want to go that very expensive route) long
> before you are in a position to sell. It is a field for big companies, the
> rich independent inventor, or the very dedicated visionary.

You can afford to take the gamble when you write your own high quality
patents

The "patent first" works for those who really are on the "inside" of
their markets, it works about 25 % of the time for these guys.

For the person that's not an insider to his market, the "patent first"
causes 99% of them to be out the money for a patent, few independents
can afford this mistake more than once, so they try once, and quit
inventing, Too bad, as many of them are great inventors on the inside



--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Boomerang Fishing Pro. , Straight Up Hooks
Mojo's Rock Hopper, and Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://ezknot.com

[baracooda]

I don't expect any body to foolishly sends and good product idea to
Microsoft or any other company without patent protection.
But according to all the legal mumbo-jumbo, it still doesn't sound Microsoft
is inviting inventor to submit good patented ideas. Perhaps most unsolicited
ideas aren't any good. The man-hours needed to review all the submissions
aren't worth it.
But if a good idea is indeed a good idea, it will probably eventually
survived to get noticed by Microsoft. Who knows if big company like
Microsoft actually dealt with a private inventor before?

"David Candy" > wrote in message
...
They don't accept either. If they're working on the same idea it makes it
legally messy.
Though it looks like they stole Apples policy (though apple is a part MS
owned company).

Unsolicited Idea Submission Policy
Microsoft or any of its employees do not accept or consider unsolicited
ideas, including ideas for new advertising campaigns, new promotions, new
products or technologies, processes, materials, marketing plans or new
product names. Please do not send any original creative artwork, samples,
demos, or other works. The sole purpose of this policy is to avoid potential
misunderstandings or disputes when Microsoft's products or marketing
strategies might seem similar to ideas submitted to Microsoft. So, please do
not send your unsolicited ideas to Microsoft or anyone at Microsoft. If,
despite our request that you not send us your ideas and materials, you still
send them, please understand that Microsoft makes no assurances that your
ideas and materials will be treated as confidential or proprietary.

From
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/tpcsdk10/html/legal/msclegalinformation.asp?frame=true

--
http://www.g2mil.com/Apr2003.htm
http://prorev.com/forbesrussia.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------
David Candy
http://www.mvps.org/serenitymacros
---------------------------------------------------------------
"baracooda" > wrote in message
...
> Is it safe to assume that MS is a humble company when comes to product
> improve suggestions.
>
> Apple on the other hand have a very un-inviting policy.
> Check here:
> http://www.apple.com/legal/default.html#unsolicited
>
> According to the Apple's website, Apple simply do not accept any outside
> ideas. I wonder how does Microsoft deals with floods and floods of product
> suggestions without risk of lawsuits?
>
> "Mike Turco" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Alex" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > My question is: how, where and to whom do you pitch a business
> > > idea at Microsoft Inc.
> >
> > Alex,
> >
> > A "business idea"? From what I've seen, Microsoft buys, (or buys into,
or
> > flat out crushes,) existing businesses that are successful and/or have a
> lot
> > of potential. I've never heard of MS or any other company that is
> interested
> > in "ideas" from the general public.
> >
> > I'm not saying that your idea doesn't have merit, just that if you want
to
> > do something with it, you'll have to turn it into a reality. Undeveloped
> > ideas are like dreams: they can be entertaining, but they are of no
> monetary
> > value.
> >
> > If you want to do something with your idea, like start a business with
the
> > intention of developing that business with the intention of selling it
off
> > some day, you might post to the newsgroup misc.entrepreneurs.moderated
for
> > advice in that area.
> >
> > Good Luck!
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
>
>

[James White]

Anne Avellone/David M. Geshwind
> So, to be less round-about: How much experience do you have in contacting,
> successfully geting NDAs from, and licensing to Microsoft, Apple, AOL Time
> Warner, Intel, IBM, Verizon, MCI, GE, and the like?

A guy who can't even afford his own e-mail account pretends to be
independently wealthy from his expertise and success in the big-time markets
of software and electronics and communications. (BOY DO I EVER BUY INTO
THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

> (e.g., DSL or cable modems) be installed for there to be a market. It has
> been pending for almost 10 years. If I had waited until the market was
> there, I would have lost out on the patents to others who filed as the
> market became more obvious.

So you think Theft-By-Patent is the way to go but it's not just quite
working for you yet? BTW, the law changed and now patents are only
enforceable from issue to 20 years from date of filing in the US so advising
folks to "submarine" patents is EXTREMELY WRONG and UNABASHEDLY SELF-SERVING
for a Patent Agent (implication: BUY my services NOW, GREAT REWARDS much
later). It could even be an ETHICAL VIOLATION which could cost you your
patent agent status-----at the very least hopefully your job (but I've seen
your web site so I think the both of you are in the same "ethical" boat).

--

James E. White
Inventor, Marketer, and Author of "Will It Sell?
How to Determine If Your Invention Is Profitably Marketable
(Before Wasting Money on a Patent)" www.willitsell.com
Also: www.booksforinventors.com and www.idearights.com
[Follow sig link for email addr.Replies go to spam bit-bucket]

[Fred]

On Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:33:36 +0200, "Alex" >
wrote:

>My question is: how, where and to whom do you pitch a business
>idea at Microsoft Inc.
>
>I know this topic might be off-topic (see title), but I can't think
>of any other newsgroup and the newsreader I'm using can't get
>any of the developers groups, for instance.
>
>So my question is - does microsoft have some kind of idea bin,
>or some department of the corporation where you can pitch an idea
>or a product?

Easy. Develop the product. Make it successful. If and when you show
a need for the product, Microsoft will most likely approach you with a
buyout offer. If you refuse they will develop a competitive product
that makes you look like an idiot developer.

So, unless you get to where you can afford to hire the best
developers, and a whole bunch of them, taking their offer is not a bad
idea.

[Fred]

On Thu, 1 May 2003 04:57:24 +1000, "David Candy" >
wrote:

>They don't accept either. If they're working on the same idea it makes it legally messy.
>Though it looks like they stole Apples policy (though apple is a part MS owned company).
>
>Unsolicited Idea Submission Policy
>Microsoft or any of its employees do not accept or consider unsolicited ideas, including ideas for new advertising campaigns, new promotions, new products or technologies, processes, materials, marketing plans or new product names. Please do not send any
original creative artwork, samples, demos, or other works. The sole purpose of this policy is to avoid potential misunderstandings or disputes when Microsoft's products or marketing strategies might seem similar to ideas submitted to Microsoft. So, please
do not send your unsolicited ideas to Microsoft or anyone at Microsoft. If, despite our request that you not send us your ideas and materials, you still send them, please understand that Microsoft makes no assurances that your ideas and materials will be t
reated as confidential or proprietary.
>
>From http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/tpcsdk10/html/legal/msclegalinformation.asp?frame=true

Excellent. A good way to protect themselves from frivolous lawsuits.

[baracooda]

"Fred" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 1 May 2003 04:57:24 +1000, "David Candy" >
> wrote:
>
> >They don't accept either. If they're working on the same idea it makes it
legally messy.
> >Though it looks like they stole Apples policy (though apple is a part MS
owned company).
> >
> >Unsolicited Idea Submission Policy
> >Microsoft or any of its employees do not accept or consider unsolicited
ideas, including ideas for new advertising campaigns, new promotions, new
products or technologies, processes, materials, marketing plans or new
product names. Please do not send any original creative artwork, samples,
demos, or other works. The sole purpose of this policy is to avoid potential
misunderstandings or disputes when Microsoft's products or marketing
strategies might seem similar to ideas submitted to Microsoft. So, please do
not send your unsolicited ideas to Microsoft or anyone at Microsoft. If,
despite our request that you not send us your ideas and materials, you still
send them, please understand that Microsoft makes no assurances that your
ideas and materials will be treated as confidential or proprietary.
> >
All these nicely phrased wordings do not seemed instruct how should a patent
holder submit a patented idea to MS. Makes you wonder ,does MS even wants to
hear from an independent inventor? If yes, why not just build a webpage
where anybody can just enter the patent number in the text input box? $10
dollar per patent entry, and a no more than 5 entries per household per
week. This might be more profitable than Apple's new music download service.
;-)

> >From
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/tpcsdk10/html/legal/msclegalinformation.asp?frame=true
>
> Excellent. A good way to protect themselves from frivolous lawsuits.

[Rodney]

baracooda wrote:

>
> All these nicely phrased wordings do not seemed instruct how should a patent
> holder submit a patented idea to MS. Makes you wonder ,does MS even wants to
> hear from an independent inventor? If yes, why not just build a webpage
> where anybody can just enter the patent number in the text input box? $10
> dollar per patent entry, and a no more than 5 entries per household per
> week. This might be more profitable than Apple's new music download service.
> ;-)


You don't get it

Let me explain something

A corporation the size of Microsoft has a team of patent lawyers,
software writers, marketers, and R&D people who review "every Patent"
that issues, they must do this, just like the automobile industry. Many
things they are working on could be killed, or at least changed by a new
patent that comes out. If you have a issued patent, in the computer
industry, Microsoft has already reviewed it. If they were interested,
they would have called you.

With companies like this, they would first try everything to get around
your patent, if they liked what it did, then chances are high they would
infringe until you sued them (like the auto industry does as SOP)

I think it is GM's standard police that they will accept no IP unless it
is patented, If it is patented, they say don't bother to submit it, as
they have already reviewed it.

This is the reason for the patent office, to publish new patents so all
interested my see them, and get more ideas off of them.

The real problem is inventors think that this will make these companies
rush to their door, to make them rich.

WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Boomerang Fishing Pro. , Straight Up Hooks
Mojo's Rock Hopper, and Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://ezknot.com

[baracooda]

> I think it is GM's standard police that they will accept no IP unless it
> is patented, If it is patented, they say don't bother to submit it, as
> they have already reviewed it.

Sounds like they have perfected some kind of sophisticated data mining
technology.
but sometimes a patent is like a diamond in the rough, only the original
inventor knows about its true value.
The trick is to offer a business strategy that buids on top of the issued
patent...
By pretending that they haven't review it, you might be able to give your
patent a special attention.

By the way, for those who never experienced, as far as comfort is concern,
stretch limo ride is over-rated.

>
> This is the reason for the patent office, to publish new patents so all
> interested my see them, and get more ideas off of them.
>
> The real problem is inventors think that this will make these companies
> rush to their door, to make them rich.
>
> WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> --
> Rodney Long,
> Inventor of the Boomerang Fishing Pro. , Straight Up Hooks
> Mojo's Rock Hopper, and Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
> http://ezknot.com
>

[Rodney]

baracooda wrote:

>
> Sounds like they have perfected some kind of sophisticated data mining
> technology.

Yeah it's called a trained staff

> but sometimes a patent is like a diamond in the rough, only the original
> inventor knows about its true value.


HAAHAHAHA , that is really funny, very true, except it should read
"Belives" instead of knows. "Every" inventor believes his patent has
great value

> The trick is to offer a business strategy that buids on top of the issued
> patent...

I wish it "was" that easy, but your mistaken in 99 out of 100
presentations, probably 100 out of 100 when licensing, that does work
sometimes for getting venture capitolist, and is always required for it,
but licensing is a whole different ball game. They know their markets
already, they know "the game plan" in that market.

> By pretending that they haven't review it, you might be able to give your
> patent a special attention.

Not to the Mega companies, they already have your total wad, "the issued
patent"

>
> By the way, for those who never experienced, as far as comfort is concern,
> stretch limo ride is over-rated.

Not in Rush hour, in down town Boston, during the "Big Dig". It made the
1 hour crawl bearable



--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Boomerang Fishing Pro. , Straight Up Hooks
Mojo's Rock Hopper, and Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://ezknot.com

[N. Thornton]

Rodney > wrote in message >...
> Anne Avellone wrote:
> > Rodney > wrote in article >...

> I don't care what their internal rules are, they will brake them in a
> heart beat, if you know "one" thing

So, what is _your concept of that one thing?

Regards, NT

[gavin killen]

Hi Alex,

It's not that difficult actually.

Contact the country head office or EMEA operations in Ireland.

They have several Partner Channels if you have an idea that needs their
software to run on or if you have an idea for them directly.

Gavin

"Alex" > wrote in message
...
> My question is: how, where and to whom do you pitch a business
> idea at Microsoft Inc.
>
> I know this topic might be off-topic (see title), but I can't think
> of any other newsgroup and the newsreader I'm using can't get
> any of the developers groups, for instance.
>
> So my question is - does microsoft have some kind of idea bin,
> or some department of the corporation where you can pitch an idea
> or a product?
>
> Alex
>
>
>
>

[gavin killen]

At least James put's his money where his mouth is.
A brief vist to his site will prove that.

Gavin

"James White" > wrote in message
news:g7Rsa.713344$3D1.392693@sccrnsc01...
> Anne Avellone/David M. Geshwind
> > So, to be less round-about: How much experience do you have in
contacting,
> > successfully geting NDAs from, and licensing to Microsoft, Apple, AOL
Time
> > Warner, Intel, IBM, Verizon, MCI, GE, and the like?
>
> A guy who can't even afford his own e-mail account pretends to be
> independently wealthy from his expertise and success in the big-time
markets
> of software and electronics and communications. (BOY DO I EVER BUY INTO
> THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
>
> > (e.g., DSL or cable modems) be installed for there to be a market. It
has
> > been pending for almost 10 years. If I had waited until the market was
> > there, I would have lost out on the patents to others who filed as the
> > market became more obvious.
>
> So you think Theft-By-Patent is the way to go but it's not just quite
> working for you yet? BTW, the law changed and now patents are only
> enforceable from issue to 20 years from date of filing in the US so
advising
> folks to "submarine" patents is EXTREMELY WRONG and UNABASHEDLY
SELF-SERVING
> for a Patent Agent (implication: BUY my services NOW, GREAT REWARDS much
> later). It could even be an ETHICAL VIOLATION which could cost you your
> patent agent status-----at the very least hopefully your job (but I've
seen
> your web site so I think the both of you are in the same "ethical" boat).
>
> --
>
> James E. White
> Inventor, Marketer, and Author of "Will It Sell?
> How to Determine If Your Invention Is Profitably Marketable
> (Before Wasting Money on a Patent)" www.willitsell.com
> Also: www.booksforinventors.com and www.idearights.com
> [Follow sig link for email addr.Replies go to spam bit-bucket]
>
>
>
>
>
>