Search is flaky - Sometimes if finds, sometimes not

[*Vanguard*]

I use Start -> Search -> Files and Folders to find a file. In the last
instance, I noticed jusched.exe was running in Task Manager and wanted to
see what it was. A search on the filename resulted in no finds of it. Yet
it is running in Task Manager so I know the file exists. So I redo the same
search (just by clicking on the Search button again) and now it finds it.

Previously in another instance I was searching on .cpl files (Control Panel
applets) and it found nothing. Redoing the search still found nothing. I
opened a DOS shell and entered "dir C:\Windows\*.cpl /s" which found the
..cpl files under the System32 subdirectory. Then I clicked the Search
button again in the Search dialog and now it found the files.

Whether or not I have the options to search on hidden files or directories
is irrelevant (although I do have this option enabled). First the search
cannot find the file, then it can, and without changing any of its options.
What causes Search to be so damn flaky that you have to redo the search
repeatedly to find existing files?

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[*Vanguard*]

"*Vanguard*" said in :
> I use Start -> Search -> Files and Folders to find a file. In the
> last instance, I noticed jusched.exe was running in Task Manager and
> wanted to see what it was. A search on the filename resulted in no
> finds of it. Yet it is running in Task Manager so I know the file
> exists. So I redo the same search (just by clicking on the Search
> button again) and now it finds it.
>
> Previously in another instance I was searching on .cpl files (Control
> Panel applets) and it found nothing. Redoing the search still found
> nothing. I opened a DOS shell and entered "dir C:\Windows\*.cpl /s"
> which found the .cpl files under the System32 subdirectory. Then I
> clicked the Search button again in the Search dialog and now it found
> the files.
>
> Whether or not I have the options to search on hidden files or
> directories is irrelevant (although I do have this option enabled).
> First the search cannot find the file, then it can, and without
> changing any of its options. What causes Search to be so damn flaky
> that you have to redo the search repeatedly to find existing files?

Note in another search on "OWSTIMER.EXE" where I searched on that filename,
on "OWSTIMER*", and on "OWS*", that the file was never found. I even set
the folder options to include listing system files and folders this time.
Still it could not find the file. Yet when I did a "dir c:\owstimer.exe /s"
that it showed up at "C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\web
server extensions\50\bin". After finding it using the DOS command, clicking
the Search button in the still up Search dialog this time still did not find
the file.

Then I decided to change where Search starts searching from. Instead of
searching "Local Hard Drives (C:;D:)", I used its Browse to start from
"C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\web server
extensions\50\bin". Now it found the file. The option to include
subfolders has always been enabled. So why can't Search navigate through
some subdirectories?

I then started backing out of the subdirectories to see at what point Search
couldn't dig down into them. So I tried searching on "OWS*" in the paths
of:

C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\web server extensions\50\
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\web server extensions\
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\
C:\Program Files\Common Files\
C:\Program Files\
C:\

And they all worked (i.e., Search could now find the file). Then I went
back to the "Local Hard Drives (C:;D:)" selection. Now Search finds the
OWSTIMER.EXE file! Yet when I started from this start point before, it
couldn't find the file.

So I closed that Search dialog and reopened it, did a search on "OWS*"
starting from "Local Hard Drives (C:;D:)", or even if started from "C:\, and
again it could not find the OWSTIMER.EXE file.

The Search function in Windows XP seems to be very screwed up. If it finds
the file then great and you know it exists. If it doesn't find the file,
you really don't know if the file exists or not. It just may have been too
stupid to find the existing file.

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[dev]

On 1/28/2004 8:03 AM *Vanguard* said:

> "*Vanguard*" said in :
>
>>I use Start -> Search -> Files and Folders to find a file. In the
>>last instance, I noticed jusched.exe was running in Task Manager and
>>wanted to see what it was. A search on the filename resulted in no
>>finds of it. Yet it is running in Task Manager so I know the file
>>exists. So I redo the same search (just by clicking on the Search
>>button again) and now it finds it.
>>
>>Previously in another instance I was searching on .cpl files (Control
>>Panel applets) and it found nothing. Redoing the search still found
>>nothing. I opened a DOS shell and entered "dir C:\Windows\*.cpl /s"
>>which found the .cpl files under the System32 subdirectory. Then I
>>clicked the Search button again in the Search dialog and now it found
>>the files.
>>
>>Whether or not I have the options to search on hidden files or
>>directories is irrelevant (although I do have this option enabled).
>>First the search cannot find the file, then it can, and without
>>changing any of its options. What causes Search to be so damn flaky
>>that you have to redo the search repeatedly to find existing files?
>
>
> Note in another search on "OWSTIMER.EXE" where I searched on that filename,
> on "OWSTIMER*", and on "OWS*", that the file was never found. I even set
> the folder options to include listing system files and folders this time.
> Still it could not find the file. Yet when I did a "dir c:\owstimer.exe /s"
> that it showed up at "C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\web
> server extensions\50\bin". After finding it using the DOS command, clicking
> the Search button in the still up Search dialog this time still did not find
> the file.
>
> Then I decided to change where Search starts searching from. Instead of
> searching "Local Hard Drives (C:;D:)", I used its Browse to start from
> "C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\web server
> extensions\50\bin". Now it found the file. The option to include
> subfolders has always been enabled. So why can't Search navigate through
> some subdirectories?
>
> I then started backing out of the subdirectories to see at what point Search
> couldn't dig down into them. So I tried searching on "OWS*" in the paths
> of:
>
> C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\web server extensions\50\
> C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\web server extensions\
> C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\
> C:\Program Files\Common Files\
> C:\Program Files\
> C:\
>
> And they all worked (i.e., Search could now find the file). Then I went
> back to the "Local Hard Drives (C:;D:)" selection. Now Search finds the
> OWSTIMER.EXE file! Yet when I started from this start point before, it
> couldn't find the file.
>
> So I closed that Search dialog and reopened it, did a search on "OWS*"
> starting from "Local Hard Drives (C:;D:)", or even if started from "C:\, and
> again it could not find the OWSTIMER.EXE file.
>
> The Search function in Windows XP seems to be very screwed up. If it finds
> the file then great and you know it exists. If it doesn't find the file,
> you really don't know if the file exists or not. It just may have been too
> stupid to find the existing file.

Forsake XP search. Try the superior Agent Ransack...
http://WWW.AGENTRANSACK.COM/index.asp

--
For most XP answers and tweaks...
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_abc.htm
http://dougknox.com http://aumha.org
http://support.microsoft.com

[*Vanguard*]

"dev" said in :
>
> Forsake XP search. Try the superior Agent Ransack...
> http://WWW.AGENTRANSACK.COM/index.asp

I've heard Ransack has problems with spaces in path names. For example,
when right-clicking on "C:\Documents and Settings". There was mention of a
workaround by using some wizard (Expression something) but that's a
workaround rather than a fix. Is this still the case?

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[*Vanguard*]

"dev" said in :
>
> Forsake XP search. Try the superior Agent Ransack...
> http://WWW.AGENTRANSACK.COM/index.asp

Know if anyone has done a comparative review on search engines, like Agent
Ransack and InfoRapid Search & Replace?

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[herbzee]

*Vanguard* wrote:

>"dev" said in :
>
>
>>Forsake XP search. Try the superior Agent Ransack...
>>http://WWW.AGENTRANSACK.COM/index.asp
>>
>>
>
>Know if anyone has done a comparative review on search engines, like Agent
>Ransack and InfoRapid Search & Replace?
>
>
>
I like "Locate"; fast & free.

[Torgeir Bakken (MVP)]

*Vanguard* wrote:

> dev wrote:
> >
> > Forsake XP search. Try the superior Agent Ransack...
> > http://WWW.AGENTRANSACK.COM/index.asp
>
> I've heard Ransack has problems with spaces in path names. For example,
> when right-clicking on "C:\Documents and Settings". There was mention of a
> workaround by using some wizard (Expression something) but that's a
> workaround rather than a fix. Is this still the case?

No.


--
torgeir
Microsoft MVP Scripting and WMI, Porsgrunn Norway
Administration scripting examples and an ONLINE version of the 1328 page
Scripting Guide: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter

[*Vanguard*]

"dev" said in :
> On 1/28/2004 8:03 AM *Vanguard* said:
>
> Forsake XP search. Try the superior Agent Ransack...
> http://WWW.AGENTRANSACK.COM/index.asp

When I try to go to www.agentransack.com (which redirects me to
http://www.mythicsoft.com/agentransack), their web site is screwed up or
down because I'll get a 500 error (internal server error). So I cannot find
out from the maker what is the latest version of Agent Ransack.

If I go to www.download.com, they list version 1.7. If I go to
www.tucows.com, they list version 1.7.3. Simtel.net lists 1.7.1. Is
version 1.7.3 the latest version? If not, and since these download sites
don't have a later version and since the software maker's web site is
farked, where can I get the latest non-beta version?


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[*Vanguard*]

"dev" said in :
>
> Forsake XP search. Try the superior Agent Ransack...
> http://WWW.AGENTRANSACK.COM/index.asp

Okay, installed Agent Ransack. Doesn't really integrate with Windows XP,
does it? Start->Search still shows the same Windows search function.
Explorer's search and right-clicking on a file to use search still show the
Windows search. Ransack didn't replace the search function at all. Instead
it runs as a separate application. Pity. It would be nice when in an
application, Explorer, or otherwise to be able to use Ransack without having
to first start it up.

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[Wislu Plethora]

>-----Original Message-----
>"dev" said in :
>>
>> Forsake XP search. Try the superior Agent Ransack...
>> http://WWW.AGENTRANSACK.COM/index.asp
>
>Okay, installed Agent Ransack. Doesn't really integrate
with Windows XP,
>does it? Start->Search still shows the same Windows
search function.
>Explorer's search and right-clicking on a file to use
search still show the
>Windows search. Ransack didn't replace the search
function at all. Instead
>it runs as a separate application. Pity. It would be
nice when in an
>application, Explorer, or otherwise to be able to use
Ransack without having
>to first start it up.
>

*Vanguard*: I'm dying of thirst, can anyone help?

Good Samaritan: Sure, here's some fresh water.

*Vanguard*: Oh, heavens no! I want water with ice in it.

[Torgeir Bakken (MVP)]

*Vanguard* wrote:

> Okay, installed Agent Ransack. Doesn't really integrate with Windows XP,
> does it? Start->Search still shows the same Windows search function.
> Explorer's search and right-clicking on a file to use search still show the
> Windows search. Ransack didn't replace the search function at all. Instead
> it runs as a separate application. Pity. It would be nice when in an
> application, Explorer, or otherwise to be able to use Ransack without having
> to first start it up.

Hi

If you right click on a folder in Explorer, Agent Ransack is showing up as an
option.


--
torgeir
Microsoft MVP Scripting and WMI, Porsgrunn Norway
Administration scripting examples and an ONLINE version of the 1328 page
Scripting Guide: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter

[Torgeir Bakken (MVP)]

*Vanguard* wrote:

> "dev" said in :
> > On 1/28/2004 8:03 AM *Vanguard* said:
> >
> > Forsake XP search. Try the superior Agent Ransack...
> > http://WWW.AGENTRANSACK.COM/index.asp
>
> When I try to go to www.agentransack.com (which redirects me to
> http://www.mythicsoft.com/agentransack), their web site is screwed up or
> down because I'll get a 500 error (internal server error).

http://www.mythicsoft.com/agentransack/default.aspx works for me now.

Download page:

http://www.mythicsoft.com/agentransack/download.aspx


> So I cannot find
> out from the maker what is the latest version of Agent Ransack.
>
> If I go to www.download.com, they list version 1.7. If I go to
> www.tucows.com, they list version 1.7.3. Simtel.net lists 1.7.1. Is
> version 1.7.3 the latest version? If not, and since these download sites
> don't have a later version and since the software maker's web site is
> farked, where can I get the latest non-beta version?

"Agent Ransack version 1.7.3 (build 328) is the current official release" is a
quote from the download page
http://www.mythicsoft.com/agentransack/download.aspx

--
torgeir
Microsoft MVP Scripting and WMI, Porsgrunn Norway
Administration scripting examples and an ONLINE version of the 1328 page
Scripting Guide: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter

[Torgeir Bakken (MVP)]

*Vanguard* wrote:

> Torgeir Bakken (MVP) wrote:
>
> > If you right click on a folder in Explorer, Agent Ransack is showing
> > up as an option.
>
> Yeah, saw that right after I sent the prior post. "Agent Ransack" isn't
> really a readily identifiable function, however. I would've preferred an
> option to actually replace the Windows search, but then it's a freebie
> product (however, since the freebie version doesn't have it then I suspect
> the paid-for version doesn't, either).

Hi

The paid-for version FileLocator Pro has a shell extension configuration GUI
with the following selections (the three first ones are default on):

"Associate with SRF file type"
"Include in a folder's context menu options"
"Include in Find/Search Start menu options" (with Classic Start Menu view)
"Replace default Explorer search (Ctrl+F)"

--
torgeir
Microsoft MVP Scripting and WMI, Porsgrunn Norway
Administration scripting examples and an ONLINE version of the 1328 page
Scripting Guide: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter

[*Vanguard*]

"dev" said in :
> On 1/28/2004 8:03 AM *Vanguard* said:
>
>> "*Vanguard*" said in :
>>
>>> I use Start -> Search -> Files and Folders to find a file. In the
>>> last instance, I noticed jusched.exe was running in Task Manager and
>>> wanted to see what it was. A search on the filename resulted in no
>>> finds of it. Yet it is running in Task Manager so I know the file
>>> exists. So I redo the same search (just by clicking on the Search
>>> button again) and now it finds it.
>>>
>>> Previously in another instance I was searching on .cpl files
>>> (Control Panel applets) and it found nothing. Redoing the search
>>> still found nothing. I opened a DOS shell and entered "dir
>>> C:\Windows\*.cpl /s" which found the .cpl files under the System32
>>> subdirectory. Then I clicked the Search button again in the Search
>>> dialog and now it found the files.
>>>
>>> Whether or not I have the options to search on hidden files or
>>> directories is irrelevant (although I do have this option enabled).
>>> First the search cannot find the file, then it can, and without
>>> changing any of its options. What causes Search to be so damn flaky
>>> that you have to redo the search repeatedly to find existing files?
>>
>>
>> Note in another search on "OWSTIMER.EXE" where I searched on that
>> filename, on "OWSTIMER*", and on "OWS*", that the file was never
>> found. I even set the folder options to include listing system
>> files and folders this time. Still it could not find the file. Yet
>> when I did a "dir c:\owstimer.exe /s" that it showed up at
>> "C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\web server
>> extensions\50\bin". After finding it using the DOS command,
>> clicking the Search button in the still up Search dialog this time
>> still did not find the file.
>>
>> Then I decided to change where Search starts searching from.
>> Instead of searching "Local Hard Drives (C:;D:)", I used its Browse
>> to start from "C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\web
>> server extensions\50\bin". Now it found the file. The option to
>> include subfolders has always been enabled. So why can't Search
>> navigate through some subdirectories?
>>
>> I then started backing out of the subdirectories to see at what
>> point Search couldn't dig down into them. So I tried searching on
>> "OWS*" in the paths of:
>>
>> C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\web server
>> extensions\50\ C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\web
>> server extensions\ C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\
>> C:\Program Files\Common Files\
>> C:\Program Files\
>> C:\
>>
>> And they all worked (i.e., Search could now find the file). Then I
>> went back to the "Local Hard Drives (C:;D:)" selection. Now Search
>> finds the OWSTIMER.EXE file! Yet when I started from this start
>> point before, it couldn't find the file.
>>
>> So I closed that Search dialog and reopened it, did a search on
>> "OWS*" starting from "Local Hard Drives (C:;D:)", or even if started
>> from "C:\, and again it could not find the OWSTIMER.EXE file.
>>
>> The Search function in Windows XP seems to be very screwed up. If
>> it finds the file then great and you know it exists. If it doesn't
>> find the file, you really don't know if the file exists or not. It
>> just may have been too stupid to find the existing file.
>
> Forsake XP search. Try the superior Agent Ransack...
> http://WWW.AGENTRANSACK.COM/index.asp

Well I've now trialed Agent Ransack for about a week. It's okay. It's
level of integration is to add a link to it in the right-click context menu
in Explorer and add a link to it under Start -> Search. It does not
replace, say, WindowsKey+F as the search tool that gets used. I've been
told that the paid-for version (called "File Locator") probably does have
better integration.

However, I've already discovered a bug that will always crash Agent Ransack.
After it finds some files that match my filespec, if I right-click on a file
and select the SendTo menu, Agent Ransack crashes. Microsoft pops up their
error reporting tool and sending or not results in closing Agent Ransack
(because it was already crashed). Once the file had been found, I wanted to
use the SendTo context menu (along with the SentTo powertoy) to send the
fully qualified path with filename to the clipboard so I could tell someone
else where to find the file. Didn't get that far. As so as I select the
SentTo context menu, Agent Ransack crashes.

By the way, I don't see Ransack doing searches super faster than Windows XP
search tool. Both will wander through every directory looking for the file
on the first time I search for it. Only after doing the first search are
subsequent searches faster. That's because both have cached up the files
list and don't have to physically wander through and interrogate all the
directories again. Ransack is quicker than Windows XP's search on the
subsequent search when the cached file list gets used. However, Ransack
does exceed at finding files that Windows XP's search had missed, as I
reported in the originating post about the peculiar behavior that I was
experiencing.

Guess I'll next check out InfoRapid Search & Replace. herbzee mentioned
"Locate" but obviously that is such a short and generic name that it would
be impossible to find the product in the 1,260,000 matches found by Google.
Would've been nice if the software developer's name or company had been
mentioned to isolate it.



--

[Torgeir Bakken (MVP)]

*Vanguard* wrote:

> (snip)
> However, I've already discovered a bug that will always crash Agent Ransack.
> After it finds some files that match my filespec, if I right-click on a file
> and select the SendTo menu, Agent Ransack crashes. Microsoft pops up their
> error reporting tool and sending or not results in closing Agent Ransack
> (because it was already crashed). Once the file had been found, I wanted to
> use the SendTo context menu (along with the SentTo powertoy) to send the
> fully qualified path with filename to the clipboard so I could tell someone
> else where to find the file. Didn't get that far. As so as I select the
> SentTo context menu, Agent Ransack crashes.

Hi

I have no problem using SendTo on files found by Agent Ransack...


--
torgeir
Microsoft MVP Scripting and WMI, Porsgrunn Norway
Administration scripting examples and an ONLINE version of the 1328 page
Scripting Guide: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter

[*Vanguard*]

"Torgeir Bakken (MVP)" said in :
> *Vanguard* wrote:
>
>> (snip)
>> However, I've already discovered a bug that will always crash Agent
>> Ransack. After it finds some files that match my filespec, if I
>> right-click on a file and select the SendTo menu, Agent Ransack
>> crashes. Microsoft pops up their error reporting tool and sending
>> or not results in closing Agent Ransack (because it was already
>> crashed). Once the file had been found, I wanted to use the SendTo
>> context menu (along with the SentTo powertoy) to send the fully
>> qualified path with filename to the clipboard so I could tell
>> someone else where to find the file. Didn't get that far. As so as
>> I select the SentTo context menu, Agent Ransack crashes.
>
> Hi
>
> I have no problem using SendTo on files found by Agent Ransack...

That's great - for you and for others where right-click and selecting SendTo
work. Reminds of calling tech support to report a problem and their
response is "Works on mine" after which I then say, "Great! Send me your
computer so it'll work for me".

Every other application where I can right-click and have the SendTo content
menu works okay. So what do you think I'd do about one non-critical program
that doesn't work? Choices would be to ignore it (by never using SentTo and
remembering not to use it), expend a huge amount of time analyzing,
tracking, reproducing, and fixing it, or get rid of it and use something
else. If I find something else that works as well (for me) then Agent
Ransack gets removed. But I'll keep it around until I find that
replacement.


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[cquirke (MVP Win9x)]

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 01:47:49 -0600, "*Vanguard*" >
>"Torgeir Bakken (MVP)" said in :
>> *Vanguard* wrote:

>> I have no problem using SendTo on files found by Agent Ransack...

>That's great - for you and for others where right-click and SendTo work.

Exactly - means it's less likely a generic SendTo thing, and more
likely something specific to your PC.

I'd start by copying out and then deleting items from Send To (no risk
of registry tracking that way, unlike Move) and re-testing. You may
find that removing one item takes the problem away - else it may be a
CLSID integration with Explorer itself.



>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -
Dreams are stack dumps of the soul
>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -

[*Vanguard*]

"Torgeir Bakken (MVP)" said in :
> *Vanguard* wrote:
>
>> Okay, installed Agent Ransack. Doesn't really integrate with
>> Windows XP, does it? Start->Search still shows the same Windows
>> search function. Explorer's search and right-clicking on a file to
>> use search still show the Windows search. Ransack didn't replace
>> the search function at all. Instead it runs as a separate
>> application. Pity. It would be nice when in an application,
>> Explorer, or otherwise to be able to use Ransack without having to
>> first start it up.
>
> Hi
>
> If you right click on a folder in Explorer, Agent Ransack is showing
> up as an option.

Yeah, saw that right after I sent the prior post. "Agent Ransack" isn't
really a readily identifiable function, however. I would've preferred an
option to actually replace the Windows search, but then it's a freebie
product (however, since the freebie version doesn't have it then I suspect
the paid-for version doesn't, either).

--
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