Dropdowns? Drop Dead.

[conniec]

I recently upgraded from Windows 98 to Windows XP Home
Edition, and have painfully been working my way through
innumerable problems. This one is simple: whenever I
point my mouse to a drop-down arrow and click, my system
locks up. Any thoughts, advice, comments, similar
experiences? Respectfully, conniec

[Doug Kanter]

Dig out the receipts and manuals and paperwork for your computer, and figure
out exactly which video card you have. Go to the web site for the card's
manufacturer and download & install the latest video drivers for XP.

Upgrading one OS to another is analogous to sticking your hand into the sink
disposal while it's running, and then dipping the wounded hand into salt.
The right way is to get all your data off the disk and onto a safe storage
medium, erase the hard disk completely, and install the new OS (XP, in your
case) to a nice clean disk. If you continue having all sorts of problems
which suggest haunting, you may eventually have to go this route.

"conniec" > wrote in message
...
> I recently upgraded from Windows 98 to Windows XP Home
> Edition, and have painfully been working my way through
> innumerable problems. This one is simple: whenever I
> point my mouse to a drop-down arrow and click, my system
> locks up. Any thoughts, advice, comments, similar
> experiences? Respectfully, conniec

[Ken Blake, MVP]

In ,
Doug Kanter > typed:

> Upgrading one OS to another is analogous to sticking your hand
into
> the sink disposal while it's running, and then dipping the
wounded
> hand into salt. The right way is to get all your data off the
disk
> and onto a safe storage medium, erase the hard disk completely,
and
> install the new OS (XP, in your case) to a nice clean disk.


This is tired old advice, which was much more true with older
operating systems than it is with Windows XP. An upgrade to
Windows XP replaces so much of what's on the drive that it's very
close to a clean installation anyway.

My recommendation to most people is is to at least try the
upgrade, since it's much easier than a clean installation. You
can always change your mind and reinstall cleanly if problems
develop.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup

[conniec]

Your analogy is quite vivid, and describes my situation
quite well. (ouch!) I have downloaded the latest drivers
for my video card. I am so frustrated that I am perfectly
willing to start from scratch. Can I do that if I
purchased an upgrade CD as opposed to the "full package"?
I am very appreciative of the time you have taken to help
me.
>-----Original Message-----
>Dig out the receipts and manuals and paperwork for your
computer, and figure
>out exactly which video card you have. Go to the web
site for the card's
>manufacturer and download & install the latest video
drivers for XP.
>
>Upgrading one OS to another is analogous to sticking
your hand into the sink
>disposal while it's running, and then dipping the
wounded hand into salt.
>The right way is to get all your data off the disk and
onto a safe storage
>medium, erase the hard disk completely, and install the
new OS (XP, in your
>case) to a nice clean disk. If you continue having all
sorts of problems
>which suggest haunting, you may eventually have to go
this route.
>
>"conniec" > wrote in
message
...
>> I recently upgraded from Windows 98 to Windows XP Home
>> Edition, and have painfully been working my way through
>> innumerable problems. This one is simple: whenever I
>> point my mouse to a drop-down arrow and click, my
system
>> locks up. Any thoughts, advice, comments, similar
>> experiences? Respectfully, conniec
>
>
>.
>

[Doug Kanter]

"Ken Blake, MVP" > wrote in message
...

> In ,
> Doug Kanter > typed:
>
> > Upgrading one OS to another is analogous to sticking your hand
> into
> > the sink disposal while it's running, and then dipping the
> wounded
> > hand into salt. The right way is to get all your data off the
> disk
> > and onto a safe storage medium, erase the hard disk completely,
> and
> > install the new OS (XP, in your case) to a nice clean disk.
>
>
> This is tired old advice, which was much more true with older
> operating systems than it is with Windows XP. An upgrade to
> Windows XP replaces so much of what's on the drive that it's very
> close to a clean installation anyway.

1) It may *seem* like tired old advice, but this and other XP newsgroups are
chock full messages from users with oddball problems which don't fit neatly
into any of the "usual categories". If these problems are solved at all,
it's pure luck, not a systematic approach that does the trick.

2) When upgrading, the target computer is a complete unknown. There is no
way of knowing what the user has installed in the past, out of a huge
universe of commercial software, shareware and freeware. The potential for
DLL conflicts is horrendous (and obvious).

3) The only DISadvantage of reformatting and doing a clean install is that
most users don't have a backup procedure in place. The reformat method may
force some users to adopt good procedures, which is obviously a good thing.


>
> My recommendation to most people is is to at least try the
> upgrade, since it's much easier than a clean installation. You
> can always change your mind and reinstall cleanly if problems
> develop.

Good recommendation. I agree. But, don't some users purchase a version of XP
which won't install to a clean disk? I'm fuzzy on this issue.

[Doug Kanter]

Connie:
Ken (who posted a message related to your question) should be able to tell
you if your CD is usable on a totally blank hard disk. Or, the instructions
which came with the disk may help. Finally, it may require a visit to the MS
web site to get this information.

These two links will be very helpful. The PC Magazine site will want to set
a cookie, and you may have to register in order to read the article. Accept
the cookies and register. The site does NOT send junk mail unless you
subscribe to their various newsletters, most of which are very helpful. The
second link is more detailed. It describes two ways of wiping the disk. One
method allows the WinXP install program to do the job, and the second
describes more or a manual way, which is more dependable.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1202609,00.asp
http://www.cyberwalker.net/columns/aug02/010802.html

If you read both and do NOT have questions, something's wrong. :-) Feel free
to email me directly. Do not use the hotmail address connected with this
newsgroup message.I never check that account. Use: dougkanter
at
frontiernet
period
net

Understand?

-Doug



"conniec" > wrote in message
...
> Your analogy is quite vivid, and describes my situation
> quite well. (ouch!) I have downloaded the latest drivers
> for my video card. I am so frustrated that I am perfectly
> willing to start from scratch. Can I do that if I
> purchased an upgrade CD as opposed to the "full package"?
> I am very appreciative of the time you have taken to help
> me.
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Dig out the receipts and manuals and paperwork for your
> computer, and figure
> >out exactly which video card you have. Go to the web
> site for the card's
> >manufacturer and download & install the latest video
> drivers for XP.
> >
> >Upgrading one OS to another is analogous to sticking
> your hand into the sink
> >disposal while it's running, and then dipping the
> wounded hand into salt.
> >The right way is to get all your data off the disk and
> onto a safe storage
> >medium, erase the hard disk completely, and install the
> new OS (XP, in your
> >case) to a nice clean disk. If you continue having all
> sorts of problems
> >which suggest haunting, you may eventually have to go
> this route.
> >
> >"conniec" > wrote in
> message
> ...
> >> I recently upgraded from Windows 98 to Windows XP Home
> >> Edition, and have painfully been working my way through
> >> innumerable problems. This one is simple: whenever I
> >> point my mouse to a drop-down arrow and click, my
> system
> >> locks up. Any thoughts, advice, comments, similar
> >> experiences? Respectfully, conniec
> >
> >
> >.
> >

[Ken Blake, MVP]

In ,
Doug Kanter > typed:
> "Ken Blake, MVP" > wrote in
message
> ...
>
>> In ,
>> Doug Kanter > typed:
>>
>> > Upgrading one OS to another is analogous to sticking your
hand
>> into
>> > the sink disposal while it's running, and then dipping the
>> wounded
>> > hand into salt. The right way is to get all your data off
the
>> disk
>> > and onto a safe storage medium, erase the hard disk
completely,
>> and
>> > install the new OS (XP, in your case) to a nice clean disk.
>>
>>
>> This is tired old advice, which was much more true with older
>> operating systems than it is with Windows XP. An upgrade to
>> Windows XP replaces so much of what's on the drive that it's
very
>> close to a clean installation anyway.
>
> 1) It may *seem* like tired old advice, but this and other XP
> newsgroups are chock full messages from users with oddball
problems
> which don't fit neatly into any of the "usual categories". If
these
> problems are solved at all, it's pure luck, not a systematic
approach
> that does the trick.


Newsgroups are always full of problems. That's what newsgroups
are for. SOme problems occur after upgrades, some come after
clean installations. Most are caused by the user.



> 2) When upgrading, the target computer is a complete unknown.
There
> is no way of knowing what the user has installed in the past,
out of
> a huge universe of commercial software, shareware and freeware.
The
> potential for DLL conflicts is horrendous (and obvious).

> 3) The only DISadvantage of reformatting and doing a clean
install is
> that most users don't have a backup procedure in place.


I don't agree that it's the only disadvantage. Many people have
sizable investments in configuring their system and apps the way
the like them. Just backing up, installing cleanly, and restoring
the data doesn't preserve this investment. You still have to
reinstall all your programs, you have to reinstall all the
Windows and application updates,you have to locate and install
all the needed drivers for your system, you have to recustomize
Windows and all your apps to work the way you're comfortable
with. Besides all those things being time-consuming and
troublesome, you may have trouble with some of them: can you find
all your application CDs? Can you find all the needed
installation codes? Do you have data backups to restore? Do you
even remember all the customizations and tweaks you may have
installed to make everything work the way you like?


> The reformat
> method may force some users to adopt good procedures, which is
> obviously a good thing.


Yes, I agree with that. But even doing an upgrade, I always
advise that a backup be done first. You never know when something
may go wrong and everything get lost.


>> My recommendation to most people is is to at least try the
>> upgrade, since it's much easier than a clean installation. You
>> can always change your mind and reinstall cleanly if problems
>> develop.
>
> Good recommendation. I agree.


In that case, our opinions are not as far apart as they initially
seemed.


> But, don't some users purchase a
> version of XP which won't install to a clean disk? I'm fuzzy on
this
> issue.


No, all versions can do a clean installation, even an upgrade
version. The upgrade version just requires that you insert the CD
of a previous qualifying version as proof of ownership when
prompted to do so.


--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup

[Ken Blake, MVP]

In ,
Doug Kanter > typed:

> Connie:
> Ken (who posted a message related to your question) should be
able to
> tell you if your CD is usable on a totally blank hard disk.


Yes, as i just said in the message to you. As long as she has a
Windows 98 installation CD (not a restore CD) the XP upgrade CD
will work fine.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup


> Or, the
> instructions which came with the disk may help. Finally, it may
> require a visit to the MS web site to get this information.
>
> These two links will be very helpful. The PC Magazine site will
want
> to set a cookie, and you may have to register in order to read
the
> article. Accept the cookies and register. The site does NOT
send junk
> mail unless you subscribe to their various newsletters, most of
which
> are very helpful. The second link is more detailed. It
describes two
> ways of wiping the disk. One method allows the WinXP install
program
> to do the job, and the second describes more or a manual way,
which
> is more dependable.
>
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1202609,00.asp
> http://www.cyberwalker.net/columns/aug02/010802.html
>
> If you read both and do NOT have questions, something's wrong.
:-)
> Feel free to email me directly. Do not use the hotmail address
> connected with this newsgroup message.I never check that
account.
> Use: dougkanter
> at
> frontiernet
> period
> net
>
> Understand?
>
> -Doug
>
>
>
> "conniec" > wrote in
message
> ...
>> Your analogy is quite vivid, and describes my situation
>> quite well. (ouch!) I have downloaded the latest drivers
>> for my video card. I am so frustrated that I am perfectly
>> willing to start from scratch. Can I do that if I
>> purchased an upgrade CD as opposed to the "full package"?
>> I am very appreciative of the time you have taken to help
>> me.
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >Dig out the receipts and manuals and paperwork for your
>> computer, and figure
>> >out exactly which video card you have. Go to the web
>> site for the card's
>> >manufacturer and download & install the latest video
>> drivers for XP.
>> >
>> >Upgrading one OS to another is analogous to sticking
>> your hand into the sink
>> >disposal while it's running, and then dipping the
>> wounded hand into salt.
>> >The right way is to get all your data off the disk and
>> onto a safe storage
>> >medium, erase the hard disk completely, and install the
>> new OS (XP, in your
>> >case) to a nice clean disk. If you continue having all
>> sorts of problems
>> >which suggest haunting, you may eventually have to go
>> this route.
>> >
>> >"conniec" > wrote in
>> message
>> ...
>> >> I recently upgraded from Windows 98 to Windows XP Home
>> >> Edition, and have painfully been working my way through
>> >> innumerable problems. This one is simple: whenever I
>> >> point my mouse to a drop-down arrow and click, my
>> system
>> >> locks up. Any thoughts, advice, comments, similar
>> >> experiences? Respectfully, conniec
>> >
>> >
>> >.

[Doug Kanter]

"Ken Blake, MVP" > wrote in message
...

>
> Newsgroups are always full of problems. That's what newsgroups
> are for. SOme problems occur after upgrades, some come after
> clean installations. Most are caused by the user.

User-caused problems are one category. Surely, you're aware of the other
patterns:

1) Security updates which come with default settings that befuddle users.
How many questions have you seen about the sudden inability to see or open
attachments in OE? 7.3 million messages? :-) Obviously, this is a case of
"RTFI" (read the f&&king instructions), but still.....

2) Known conflicts with software from manufacturers who are at least honest
enough to post solutions.

3) RTFI problems, in general. (The kids ate the instruction book. Sure.)

4) Complete mysteries. These aren't that hard to deal with, really, if you
control as many factors as possible when choosing and installing software.


>
> I don't agree that it's the only disadvantage. Many people have
> sizable investments in configuring their system and apps the way
> the like them. Just backing up, installing cleanly, and restoring
> the data doesn't preserve this investment. You still have to
> reinstall all your programs, you have to reinstall all the
> Windows and application updates,you have to locate and install
> all the needed drivers for your system, you have to recustomize
> Windows and all your apps to work the way you're comfortable
> with. Besides all those things being time-consuming and
> troublesome, you may have trouble with some of them: can you find
> all your application CDs? Can you find all the needed
> installation codes? Do you have data backups to restore? Do you
> even remember all the customizations and tweaks you may have
> installed to make everything work the way you like?

Oh well. Who said moving to a new house was fun or easy? But once it'd done,
it's good for a long time.

[Harry Ohrn]

"Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
...
[snip]
>
> Good recommendation. I agree. But, don't some users purchase a version of
XP
> which won't install to a clean disk? I'm fuzzy on this issue.
>

All versions of Windows XP will install to a clean drive. OEM versions are
not designed, and can not be forced, to upgrade. Full Retail versions can
upgrade and Upgrade versions can do a clean install provided the request for
a qualifying product is satisfied at the beginning of installation.


--

Harry Ohrn - MS MVP [Shell/User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp

[Harry Ohrn]

Take this link http://www.webtree.ca/windowsxp/clean_install.htm

--

Harry Ohrn - MS MVP [Shell/User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp


"conniec" > wrote in message
...
> Your analogy is quite vivid, and describes my situation
> quite well. (ouch!) I have downloaded the latest drivers
> for my video card. I am so frustrated that I am perfectly
> willing to start from scratch. Can I do that if I
> purchased an upgrade CD as opposed to the "full package"?
> I am very appreciative of the time you have taken to help
> me.
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Dig out the receipts and manuals and paperwork for your
> computer, and figure
> >out exactly which video card you have. Go to the web
> site for the card's
> >manufacturer and download & install the latest video
> drivers for XP.
> >
> >Upgrading one OS to another is analogous to sticking
> your hand into the sink
> >disposal while it's running, and then dipping the
> wounded hand into salt.
> >The right way is to get all your data off the disk and
> onto a safe storage
> >medium, erase the hard disk completely, and install the
> new OS (XP, in your
> >case) to a nice clean disk. If you continue having all
> sorts of problems
> >which suggest haunting, you may eventually have to go
> this route.
> >
> >"conniec" > wrote in
> message
> ...
> >> I recently upgraded from Windows 98 to Windows XP Home
> >> Edition, and have painfully been working my way through
> >> innumerable problems. This one is simple: whenever I
> >> point my mouse to a drop-down arrow and click, my
> system
> >> locks up. Any thoughts, advice, comments, similar
> >> experiences? Respectfully, conniec
> >
> >
> >.
> >