Am I a Bad Person? (Kazaa) [Archive]

February 3rd 04, 06:42 AM

I use Kazaa to download almost anything and everything I
can. I know this is stealing but it doesn't feel so
wrong as stealing. My main question is: I download all
sorts of crap, but it is all stuff that I wouldn't have
purchased anyway. The stuff that I know is high quality,
and worth my money, then I go out and buy. Is what I'm
doing wrong, because most of my free time is spent
watching, using, or listening to something that i did not
pay for! There are cetain CDs I really like so I go and
buy them. The same applies with movies, as well as
software, but I'd like to here other people's opinions on
the subject?. Do you do it? How do you feel about it?
etc.

PA Bear

February 3rd 04, 07:21 AM

Turn the tables for a minute: You're an author and have worked for years on
a novel. Now it's been published. Someone walks into Barnes & Noble and
shoplifts your book, depriving you of the income from the sale. This guy's
defense is, "I'll take a look at it and if I like the book I'll go out and
buy it."

How do you feel about it? Do you think this guy would really go out and buy
the book after he's already got one in his hot little hands?

You're a great cook and devise a fabulous new recipe for chocolate chip
cookies. You patent/copyright the recipe and put it on the market. Someone
walks into a store and shoplifts a package of your cookies, saying, "Hey, if
I like 'em, I'll come back and pay for 'em."

How do you feel about it? Do you think this guy's really gonna come back
and pay for the cookies?

It's *stealing* and "Thou shalt not steal." Be glad you don't live in Iran
or Egypt: If you were caught downloading and sharing copyrighted files from
the 'net, your hand would be cut off.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE)
AH-VSOP

wrote:
> I use Kazaa to download almost anything and everything I
> can. I know this is stealing but it doesn't feel so
> wrong as stealing. My main question is: I download all
> sorts of crap, but it is all stuff that I wouldn't have
> purchased anyway. The stuff that I know is high quality,
> and worth my money, then I go out and buy. Is what I'm
> doing wrong, because most of my free time is spent
> watching, using, or listening to something that i did not
> pay for! There are cetain CDs I really like so I go and
> buy them. The same applies with movies, as well as
> software, but I'd like to here other people's opinions on
> the subject?. Do you do it? How do you feel about it?
> etc.

Kelly

February 3rd 04, 07:22 AM

Whatcha think about: Kendall Jackson Chardonnay? Can I download it? Just
kidding, but am serious on the question. :o)

All the Best,
Kelly

MS-MVP Win98/XP
[AE-Windows® XP]

Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com

Utilities for Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_u.htm#xp_util

"PA Bear" > wrote in message
...
> Turn the tables for a minute: You're an author and have worked for years
on
> a novel. Now it's been published. Someone walks into Barnes & Noble and
> shoplifts your book, depriving you of the income from the sale. This
guy's
> defense is, "I'll take a look at it and if I like the book I'll go out and
> buy it."
>
> How do you feel about it? Do you think this guy would really go out and
buy
> the book after he's already got one in his hot little hands?
>
> You're a great cook and devise a fabulous new recipe for chocolate chip
> cookies. You patent/copyright the recipe and put it on the market.
Someone
> walks into a store and shoplifts a package of your cookies, saying, "Hey,
if
> I like 'em, I'll come back and pay for 'em."
>
> How do you feel about it? Do you think this guy's really gonna come back
> and pay for the cookies?
>
> It's *stealing* and "Thou shalt not steal." Be glad you don't live in
Iran
> or Egypt: If you were caught downloading and sharing copyrighted files
from
> the 'net, your hand would be cut off.
> --
> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE)
> AH-VSOP
>
> wrote:
> > I use Kazaa to download almost anything and everything I
> > can. I know this is stealing but it doesn't feel so
> > wrong as stealing. My main question is: I download all
> > sorts of crap, but it is all stuff that I wouldn't have
> > purchased anyway. The stuff that I know is high quality,
> > and worth my money, then I go out and buy. Is what I'm
> > doing wrong, because most of my free time is spent
> > watching, using, or listening to something that i did not
> > pay for! There are cetain CDs I really like so I go and
> > buy them. The same applies with movies, as well as
> > software, but I'd like to here other people's opinions on
> > the subject?. Do you do it? How do you feel about it?
> > etc.
>

JAX

February 3rd 04, 08:01 AM

"Kendall Jackson Chardonnay?"

Is that anything like Muscatel?

JAX

"Kelly" > wrote in message
...
> Whatcha think about: Kendall Jackson Chardonnay? Can I download it?
Just
> kidding, but am serious on the question. :o)
>
> All the Best,
> Kelly
>
> MS-MVP Win98/XP
> [AE-Windows® XP]
>
> Troubleshooting Windows XP
> http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com
>
> Utilities for Windows XP
> http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_u.htm#xp_util
>
>
> "PA Bear" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Turn the tables for a minute: You're an author and have worked for years
> on
> > a novel. Now it's been published. Someone walks into Barnes & Noble
and
> > shoplifts your book, depriving you of the income from the sale. This
> guy's
> > defense is, "I'll take a look at it and if I like the book I'll go out
and
> > buy it."
> >
> > How do you feel about it? Do you think this guy would really go out and
> buy
> > the book after he's already got one in his hot little hands?
> >
> > You're a great cook and devise a fabulous new recipe for chocolate chip
> > cookies. You patent/copyright the recipe and put it on the market.
> Someone
> > walks into a store and shoplifts a package of your cookies, saying,
"Hey,
> if
> > I like 'em, I'll come back and pay for 'em."
> >
> > How do you feel about it? Do you think this guy's really gonna come
back
> > and pay for the cookies?
> >
> > It's *stealing* and "Thou shalt not steal." Be glad you don't live in
> Iran
> > or Egypt: If you were caught downloading and sharing copyrighted files
> from
> > the 'net, your hand would be cut off.
> > --
> > ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> > MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE)
> > AH-VSOP
> >
> > wrote:
> > > I use Kazaa to download almost anything and everything I
> > > can. I know this is stealing but it doesn't feel so
> > > wrong as stealing. My main question is: I download all
> > > sorts of crap, but it is all stuff that I wouldn't have
> > > purchased anyway. The stuff that I know is high quality,
> > > and worth my money, then I go out and buy. Is what I'm
> > > doing wrong, because most of my free time is spent
> > > watching, using, or listening to something that i did not
> > > pay for! There are cetain CDs I really like so I go and
> > > buy them. The same applies with movies, as well as
> > > software, but I'd like to here other people's opinions on
> > > the subject?. Do you do it? How do you feel about it?
> > > etc.
> >
>
>

Kelly

February 3rd 04, 08:21 AM

Was messin' with him. He is a wine taster/tester. But yes, is my favorite.
What was it that Red Foxx drank on Sanford and Son? I forget....... :o)

--
All the Best,
Kelly

MS-MVP Win98/XP
[AE-Windows® XP]

Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com

Utilities for Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_u.htm#xp_util

"JAX" > wrote in message
...
> "Kendall Jackson Chardonnay?"
>
> Is that anything like Muscatel?
>
> JAX
>
> "Kelly" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Whatcha think about: Kendall Jackson Chardonnay? Can I download it?
> Just
> > kidding, but am serious on the question. :o)
> >
> > All the Best,
> > Kelly
> >
> > MS-MVP Win98/XP
> > [AE-Windows® XP]
> >
> > Troubleshooting Windows XP
> > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com
> >
> > Utilities for Windows XP
> > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_u.htm#xp_util
> >
> >
> > "PA Bear" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Turn the tables for a minute: You're an author and have worked for
years
> > on
> > > a novel. Now it's been published. Someone walks into Barnes & Noble
> and
> > > shoplifts your book, depriving you of the income from the sale. This
> > guy's
> > > defense is, "I'll take a look at it and if I like the book I'll go out
> and
> > > buy it."
> > >
> > > How do you feel about it? Do you think this guy would really go out
and
> > buy
> > > the book after he's already got one in his hot little hands?
> > >
> > > You're a great cook and devise a fabulous new recipe for chocolate
chip
> > > cookies. You patent/copyright the recipe and put it on the market.
> > Someone
> > > walks into a store and shoplifts a package of your cookies, saying,
> "Hey,
> > if
> > > I like 'em, I'll come back and pay for 'em."
> > >
> > > How do you feel about it? Do you think this guy's really gonna come
> back
> > > and pay for the cookies?
> > >
> > > It's *stealing* and "Thou shalt not steal." Be glad you don't live in
> > Iran
> > > or Egypt: If you were caught downloading and sharing copyrighted files
> > from
> > > the 'net, your hand would be cut off.
> > > --
> > > ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> > > MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE)
> > > AH-VSOP
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > > I use Kazaa to download almost anything and everything I
> > > > can. I know this is stealing but it doesn't feel so
> > > > wrong as stealing. My main question is: I download all
> > > > sorts of crap, but it is all stuff that I wouldn't have
> > > > purchased anyway. The stuff that I know is high quality,
> > > > and worth my money, then I go out and buy. Is what I'm
> > > > doing wrong, because most of my free time is spent
> > > > watching, using, or listening to something that i did not
> > > > pay for! There are cetain CDs I really like so I go and
> > > > buy them. The same applies with movies, as well as
> > > > software, but I'd like to here other people's opinions on
> > > > the subject?. Do you do it? How do you feel about it?
> > > > etc.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

JAX

February 3rd 04, 08:22 AM

Was it Ripple? I have drank/drunk some of that too.

JAX

"Kelly" > wrote in message
...
> Was messin' with him. He is a wine taster/tester. But yes, is my
favorite.
> What was it that Red Foxx drank on Sanford and Son? I forget....... :o)
>
> --
> All the Best,
> Kelly
>
> MS-MVP Win98/XP
> [AE-Windows® XP]
>
> Troubleshooting Windows XP
> http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com
>
> Utilities for Windows XP
> http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_u.htm#xp_util
>
>
> "JAX" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Kendall Jackson Chardonnay?"
> >
> > Is that anything like Muscatel?
> >
> > JAX
> >
> > "Kelly" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Whatcha think about: Kendall Jackson Chardonnay? Can I download it?
> > Just
> > > kidding, but am serious on the question. :o)
> > >
> > > All the Best,
> > > Kelly
> > >
> > > MS-MVP Win98/XP
> > > [AE-Windows® XP]
> > >
> > > Troubleshooting Windows XP
> > > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com
> > >
> > > Utilities for Windows XP
> > > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_u.htm#xp_util
> > >
> > >
> > > "PA Bear" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Turn the tables for a minute: You're an author and have worked for
> years
> > > on
> > > > a novel. Now it's been published. Someone walks into Barnes &
Noble
> > and
> > > > shoplifts your book, depriving you of the income from the sale.
This
> > > guy's
> > > > defense is, "I'll take a look at it and if I like the book I'll go
out
> > and
> > > > buy it."
> > > >
> > > > How do you feel about it? Do you think this guy would really go out
> and
> > > buy
> > > > the book after he's already got one in his hot little hands?
> > > >
> > > > You're a great cook and devise a fabulous new recipe for chocolate
> chip
> > > > cookies. You patent/copyright the recipe and put it on the market.
> > > Someone
> > > > walks into a store and shoplifts a package of your cookies, saying,
> > "Hey,
> > > if
> > > > I like 'em, I'll come back and pay for 'em."
> > > >
> > > > How do you feel about it? Do you think this guy's really gonna come
> > back
> > > > and pay for the cookies?
> > > >
> > > > It's *stealing* and "Thou shalt not steal." Be glad you don't live
in
> > > Iran
> > > > or Egypt: If you were caught downloading and sharing copyrighted
files
> > > from
> > > > the 'net, your hand would be cut off.
> > > > --
> > > > ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> > > > MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE)
> > > > AH-VSOP
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > I use Kazaa to download almost anything and everything I
> > > > > can. I know this is stealing but it doesn't feel so
> > > > > wrong as stealing. My main question is: I download all
> > > > > sorts of crap, but it is all stuff that I wouldn't have
> > > > > purchased anyway. The stuff that I know is high quality,
> > > > > and worth my money, then I go out and buy. Is what I'm
> > > > > doing wrong, because most of my free time is spent
> > > > > watching, using, or listening to something that i did not
> > > > > pay for! There are cetain CDs I really like so I go and
> > > > > buy them. The same applies with movies, as well as
> > > > > software, but I'd like to here other people's opinions on
> > > > > the subject?. Do you do it? How do you feel about it?
> > > > > etc.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Jim Byrd

February 3rd 04, 09:21 AM

Kelly - back in my misspent youth, in addition to playing volleyball on the
beach, we used to have pool parties which were commonly referred to as
"Splashes"; the saying used to be: "You can't have a Splash without a
Ripple!" :)

--
Please respond in the same thread.
Regards, Jim

In ,
Kelly > typed:
> <LOL> We are playing Jeopardy now. :o)
>
>
> "JAX" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Was it Ripple? I have drank/drunk some of that too.
>>
>> JAX
>>

JAX

February 3rd 04, 09:22 AM

Darn, that was a question in another thread. "What was the name of the game
show where you had to end the answer to a question with a question". Now, I
remember the thread. It was one about top posting or bottom posting. I'll
have to go back and re-kindle the thread.(tee-hee) not really.

JAX

"Kelly" > wrote in message
...
> <LOL> We are playing Jeopardy now. :o)
>
> --
> All the Best,
> Kelly
>
> MS-MVP Win98/XP
> [AE-Windows® XP]
>
> Troubleshooting Windows XP
> http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com
>
> Utilities for Windows XP
> http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_u.htm#xp_util
>
>
> "JAX" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Was it Ripple? I have drank/drunk some of that too.
> >
> > JAX
> >
> > "Kelly" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Was messin' with him. He is a wine taster/tester. But yes, is my
> > favorite.
> > > What was it that Red Foxx drank on Sanford and Son? I forget.......
> :o)
> > >
> > > --
> > > All the Best,
> > > Kelly
> > >
> > > MS-MVP Win98/XP
> > > [AE-Windows® XP]
> > >
> > > Troubleshooting Windows XP
> > > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com
> > >
> > > Utilities for Windows XP
> > > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_u.htm#xp_util
> > >
> > >
> > > "JAX" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > "Kendall Jackson Chardonnay?"
> > > >
> > > > Is that anything like Muscatel?
> > > >
> > > > JAX
> > > >
> > > > "Kelly" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > Whatcha think about: Kendall Jackson Chardonnay? Can I download
> it?
> > > > Just
> > > > > kidding, but am serious on the question. :o)
> > > > >
> > > > > All the Best,
> > > > > Kelly
> > > > >
> > > > > MS-MVP Win98/XP
> > > > > [AE-Windows® XP]
> > > > >
> > > > > Troubleshooting Windows XP
> > > > > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Utilities for Windows XP
> > > > > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_u.htm#xp_util
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "PA Bear" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > Turn the tables for a minute: You're an author and have worked
for
> > > years
> > > > > on
> > > > > > a novel. Now it's been published. Someone walks into Barnes &
> > Noble
> > > > and
> > > > > > shoplifts your book, depriving you of the income from the sale.
> > This
> > > > > guy's
> > > > > > defense is, "I'll take a look at it and if I like the book I'll
go
> > out
> > > > and
> > > > > > buy it."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How do you feel about it? Do you think this guy would really go
> out
> > > and
> > > > > buy
> > > > > > the book after he's already got one in his hot little hands?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You're a great cook and devise a fabulous new recipe for
chocolate
> > > chip
> > > > > > cookies. You patent/copyright the recipe and put it on the
> market.
> > > > > Someone
> > > > > > walks into a store and shoplifts a package of your cookies,
> saying,
> > > > "Hey,
> > > > > if
> > > > > > I like 'em, I'll come back and pay for 'em."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How do you feel about it? Do you think this guy's really gonna
> come
> > > > back
> > > > > > and pay for the cookies?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It's *stealing* and "Thou shalt not steal." Be glad you don't
> live
> > in
> > > > > Iran
> > > > > > or Egypt: If you were caught downloading and sharing copyrighted
> > files
> > > > > from
> > > > > > the 'net, your hand would be cut off.
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> > > > > > MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE)
> > > > > > AH-VSOP
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > I use Kazaa to download almost anything and everything I
> > > > > > > can. I know this is stealing but it doesn't feel so
> > > > > > > wrong as stealing. My main question is: I download all
> > > > > > > sorts of crap, but it is all stuff that I wouldn't have
> > > > > > > purchased anyway. The stuff that I know is high quality,
> > > > > > > and worth my money, then I go out and buy. Is what I'm
> > > > > > > doing wrong, because most of my free time is spent
> > > > > > > watching, using, or listening to something that i did not
> > > > > > > pay for! There are cetain CDs I really like so I go and
> > > > > > > buy them. The same applies with movies, as well as
> > > > > > > software, but I'd like to here other people's opinions on
> > > > > > > the subject?. Do you do it? How do you feel about it?
> > > > > > > etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Richard Urban

February 3rd 04, 01:22 PM

Wrong place for this trolling question!

--
Regards:

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-)

> wrote in message
...
> I use Kazaa to download almost anything and everything I
> can. I know this is stealing but it doesn't feel so
> wrong as stealing. My main question is: I download all
> sorts of crap, but it is all stuff that I wouldn't have
> purchased anyway. The stuff that I know is high quality,
> and worth my money, then I go out and buy. Is what I'm
> doing wrong, because most of my free time is spent
> watching, using, or listening to something that i did not
> pay for! There are cetain CDs I really like so I go and
> buy them. The same applies with movies, as well as
> software, but I'd like to here other people's opinions on
> the subject?. Do you do it? How do you feel about it?
> etc.

Papa

February 3rd 04, 01:45 PM

Well, some downloads are perfectly legal, but for those that are not, my
answer is - no, I prefer not being a thief. Not only that, but I prefer not
being subjected to the spyware that using Kazaa invites.

> wrote in message
...
> I use Kazaa to download almost anything and everything I
> can. I know this is stealing but it doesn't feel so
> wrong as stealing. My main question is: I download all
> sorts of crap, but it is all stuff that I wouldn't have
> purchased anyway. The stuff that I know is high quality,
> and worth my money, then I go out and buy. Is what I'm
> doing wrong, because most of my free time is spent
> watching, using, or listening to something that i did not
> pay for! There are cetain CDs I really like so I go and
> buy them. The same applies with movies, as well as
> software, but I'd like to here other people's opinions on
> the subject?. Do you do it? How do you feel about it?
> etc.

Tom Pepper Willett

February 3rd 04, 02:27 PM

But think of all the spyware he/she has on the computer by using Kazaa. ;-)

Tom
"Richard Urban" > wrote in message
...
> Wrong place for this trolling question!
>
> --
> Regards:
>
> Richard Urban
>
> aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-)
>
> <

mrtee

February 3rd 04, 02:41 PM

Don't do it JAX! :-)

--=20
Just my 2=A2 worth
Jeff
__________in response to__________
"JAX" > wrote in message =
...
| Darn, that was a question in another thread. "What was the name of the =
game
| show where you had to end the answer to a question with a question". =
Now, I
| remember the thread. It was one about top posting or bottom posting. =
I'll
| have to go back and re-kindle the thread.(tee-hee) not really.
|=20
| JAX

Trish

February 3rd 04, 03:23 PM

If you still want to download music and stuff, consider Napster. You can buy
cards that allow you to pay for the music and still be legal....The cards
cost about $15 and gets you (15?) songs.........or somewhere close to that.
> wrote in message
...
> I use Kazaa to download almost anything and everything I
> can. I know this is stealing but it doesn't feel so
> wrong as stealing. My main question is: I download all
> sorts of crap, but it is all stuff that I wouldn't have
> purchased anyway. The stuff that I know is high quality,
> and worth my money, then I go out and buy. Is what I'm
> doing wrong, because most of my free time is spent
> watching, using, or listening to something that i did not
> pay for! There are cetain CDs I really like so I go and
> buy them. The same applies with movies, as well as
> software, but I'd like to here other people's opinions on
> the subject?. Do you do it? How do you feel about it?
> etc.

Wislu Plethora

February 3rd 04, 04:21 PM

>-----Original Message-----
>Turn the tables for a minute: You're an author and have
worked for years on
>a novel. Now it's been published. Someone walks into
Barnes & Noble and
>shoplifts your book, depriving you of the income from the
sale. This guy's
>defense is, "I'll take a look at it and if I like the
book I'll go out and
>buy it."
>
>How do you feel about it? Do you think this guy would
really go out and buy
>the book after he's already got one in his hot little
hands?
>
>You're a great cook and devise a fabulous new recipe for
chocolate chip
>cookies. You patent/copyright the recipe and put it on
the market. Someone
>walks into a store and shoplifts a package of your
cookies, saying, "Hey, if
>I like 'em, I'll come back and pay for 'em."
>
>How do you feel about it? Do you think this guy's really
gonna come back
>and pay for the cookies?
>
>It's *stealing* and "Thou shalt not steal." Be glad you
don't live in Iran
>or Egypt: If you were caught downloading and sharing
copyrighted files from
>the 'net, your hand would be cut off.

If these newsgroups are good for anything, it's the wealth
of stupid analogies that self-righteous people use in
defense of their own hypocritical ethics and morality.
In both cases cited, the novel and the cookies, the
author and the owner of the recipe got paid BEFORE the
shoplifter happened on the scene. The author would be
paid royalties based on sales to retailers, not sales to
the general public. Although licensing arrangements with
patent and copyright owners vary, the cookie maven would
also have been paid in some form or another as a result of
a sale to a retailer or wholesaler--not as a result of the
sale to the end user.

Ian Smythe

February 3rd 04, 05:02 PM

wrote:
> I use Kazaa to download almost anything and everything I
> can. I know this is stealing but it doesn't feel so
> wrong as stealing. My main question is: I download all
> sorts of crap, but it is all stuff that I wouldn't have
> purchased anyway. The stuff that I know is high quality,
> and worth my money, then I go out and buy. Is what I'm
> doing wrong, because most of my free time is spent
> watching, using, or listening to something that i did not
> pay for! There are cetain CDs I really like so I go and
> buy them. The same applies with movies, as well as
> software, but I'd like to here other people's opinions on
> the subject?. Do you do it? How do you feel about it?
> etc.

Physcology 101----You are only a badperson IF you think you are a bad
person! And thats that! :-)

kurttrail

February 3rd 04, 05:46 PM

wrote:

> I use Kazaa to download almost anything and everything I
> can. I know this is stealing but it doesn't feel so
> wrong as stealing. My main question is: I download all
> sorts of crap, but it is all stuff that I wouldn't have
> purchased anyway. The stuff that I know is high quality,
> and worth my money, then I go out and buy. Is what I'm
> doing wrong, because most of my free time is spent
> watching, using, or listening to something that i did not
> pay for! There are cetain CDs I really like so I go and
> buy them. The same applies with movies, as well as
> software, but I'd like to here other people's opinions on
> the subject?. Do you do it? How do you feel about it?
> etc.

I used to use it to preview software that I was considering buying. If
I liked it, I'd buy it, and if I didn't I wouldn't. That way I would
have to spend my money anymore on software that's just plain sh*t.

It's like lending some a book you bought, sure the publisher lost the
sale of that book to that one person, but the person, if he liked the
book, might convince multiple friends that the book is a good read, and
his friends go out and buy a book that they might not otherwise have
heard of. In a market that is truely competitive this kind of
infringement only tends to increase sales via word of mouth sales, that
one main reason why the publishing industry doesn't make a big deal out
of it. They know that the more their books are "shared," the more buzz
that surrounds any one given book title, which only puts more money in
their pocket.

It's the Hollywood corporate entities that have been ripping off their
customers for decades that are the most vehement denouncers of this
"sharing." To me, they are reaping what they have sown. There ain't a
song on file-sharing that I can't just legally record off the radio, so
what's the effin' big deal. Instead of suing the file-sharing
companies, they should just license them, so that the cost of the
software includes the cost of residuals, based on the same rate that
radio stations pay, which is like a fraction of a penny.

But no! They got to try to criminalize new technoloies, rather than
just change with the times.

http://www.eff.org/share/legal.php

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"

Bruce Chambers

February 4th 04, 02:23 AM

Greetings --

You're a thief, and cost honest people more money every day.
Personally, I think the RIAA should be mixing a little jail time with
their lawsuits. But that's just my view; I have no use for dishonesty
in any form.

Bruce Chambers

--
Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. -- RAH

> wrote in message
...
> I use Kazaa to download almost anything and everything I
> can. I know this is stealing but it doesn't feel so
> wrong as stealing. My main question is: I download all
> sorts of crap, but it is all stuff that I wouldn't have
> purchased anyway. The stuff that I know is high quality,
> and worth my money, then I go out and buy. Is what I'm
> doing wrong, because most of my free time is spent
> watching, using, or listening to something that i did not
> pay for! There are cetain CDs I really like so I go and
> buy them. The same applies with movies, as well as
> software, but I'd like to here other people's opinions on
> the subject?. Do you do it? How do you feel about it?
> etc.

Patty

February 4th 04, 03:07 AM

Just download Napster and buy the Napster cards....You can buy the cards for
less than $15 and you will not be stealing anything.

"Wislu Plethora" > wrote in message
...
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Turn the tables for a minute: You're an author and have
> worked for years on
> >a novel. Now it's been published. Someone walks into
> Barnes & Noble and
> >shoplifts your book, depriving you of the income from the
> sale. This guy's
> >defense is, "I'll take a look at it and if I like the
> book I'll go out and
> >buy it."
> >
> >How do you feel about it? Do you think this guy would
> really go out and buy
> >the book after he's already got one in his hot little
> hands?
> >
> >You're a great cook and devise a fabulous new recipe for
> chocolate chip
> >cookies. You patent/copyright the recipe and put it on
> the market. Someone
> >walks into a store and shoplifts a package of your
> cookies, saying, "Hey, if
> >I like 'em, I'll come back and pay for 'em."
> >
> >How do you feel about it? Do you think this guy's really
> gonna come back
> >and pay for the cookies?
> >
> >It's *stealing* and "Thou shalt not steal." Be glad you
> don't live in Iran
> >or Egypt: If you were caught downloading and sharing
> copyrighted files from
> >the 'net, your hand would be cut off.
>
>
> If these newsgroups are good for anything, it's the wealth
> of stupid analogies that self-righteous people use in
> defense of their own hypocritical ethics and morality.
> In both cases cited, the novel and the cookies, the
> author and the owner of the recipe got paid BEFORE the
> shoplifter happened on the scene. The author would be
> paid royalties based on sales to retailers, not sales to
> the general public. Although licensing arrangements with
> patent and copyright owners vary, the cookie maven would
> also have been paid in some form or another as a result of
> a sale to a retailer or wholesaler--not as a result of the
> sale to the end user.

kurttrail

February 4th 04, 05:06 AM

Patty wrote:

> Just download Napster and buy the Napster cards....You can buy the
> cards for less than $15 and you will not be stealing anything.

Downloading music thru file-sharing has yet to proven to be copyright
infringement, let alone the criminal offense of "stealing." Even the music
companies have tried to only go after those that offer music to be
downloaded by others. And even in those instances, the music companies are
persuing this in civil, not criminal court.

Napster and the other online music stores is just the music companies
attempt to keep over-charging consumers in the post-CD era. A buck or even
79 cents a song, is more expensive than buying music on CDs that might have
almost 20 songs on it, plus the music companies have much lower overhead
delivering music over the internet. Only morons with money to burn would
pay higher prices for online music that's at a worse digital quality than
that on CD.

The real thieves are the guys sitting in boardrooms in Hollywood!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"

kurttrail

February 4th 04, 05:07 AM

Bruce Chambers wrote:

> Greetings --
>
> You're a thief, and cost honest people more money every day.
> Personally, I think the RIAA should be mixing a little jail time with
> their lawsuits. But that's just my view; I have no use for dishonesty
> in any form.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Aren't you the guy that had to be shamed as a hypocrite in order to get you
to drop your dishonest claim that instaling MS's OS on more than one
computer violated copyright laws. And it took me 2 years to get you to
change that dishonest tune!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"

Kelly

February 4th 04, 05:27 AM

Well, guess that makes sense, Jim. Sorta like can't have a Hurricane
without going to Pat O' Briens? :o) http://www.patobriens.com/tour.html

BTW, received your mail, thanks and go Ron! :o)

--
All the Best,
Kelly

"Jim Byrd" > wrote in message
...
> Kelly - back in my misspent youth, in addition to playing volleyball on
the
> beach, we used to have pool parties which were commonly referred to as
> "Splashes"; the saying used to be: "You can't have a Splash without a
> Ripple!" :)
>
> --
> Please respond in the same thread.
> Regards, Jim
>
>
> In ,
> Kelly > typed:
> > <LOL> We are playing Jeopardy now. :o)
> >
> >
> > "JAX" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Was it Ripple? I have drank/drunk some of that too.
> >>
> >> JAX
> >>
>

Kelly

February 4th 04, 05:27 AM

I second and third that!!!! :o)

--
All the Best,
Kelly

MS-MVP Win98/XP
[AE-Windows® XP]

Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com

Utilities for Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_u.htm#xp_util

"mrtee" > wrote in message
...
Don't do it JAX! :-)

--
Just my 2¢ worth
Jeff
__________in response to__________
"JAX" > wrote in message
...
| Darn, that was a question in another thread. "What was the name of the
game
| show where you had to end the answer to a question with a question". Now,
I
| remember the thread. It was one about top posting or bottom posting. I'll
| have to go back and re-kindle the thread.(tee-hee) not really.
|
| JAX

Jim Byrd

February 4th 04, 07:42 AM

YW, Miss K. Latest sounded pretty good, no?

--
Please respond in the same thread.
Regards, Jim Byrd, MS-MVP

In ,
Kelly > typed:
> Well, guess that makes sense, Jim. Sorta like can't have a Hurricane
> without going to Pat O' Briens? :o) http://www.patobriens.com/tour.html
>
> BTW, received your mail, thanks and go Ron! :o)
>
>
> "Jim Byrd" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Kelly - back in my misspent youth, in addition to playing volleyball on
the
>> beach, we used to have pool parties which were commonly referred to as
>> "Splashes"; the saying used to be: "You can't have a Splash without a
>> Ripple!" :)
>>
>> --
>> Please respond in the same thread.
>> Regards, Jim
>>
>>
>> In ,
>> Kelly > typed:
>>> <LOL> We are playing Jeopardy now. :o)
>>>
>>>
>>> "JAX" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Was it Ripple? I have drank/drunk some of that too.
>>>>
>>>> JAX

Kelly

February 4th 04, 07:43 AM

Absolutely! Am awaiting a personal response shortly and will post it
"there". <w>

--
All the Best,
Kelly

"Jim Byrd" > wrote in message
...
> YW, Miss K. Latest sounded pretty good, no?
>
> --
> Please respond in the same thread.
> Regards, Jim Byrd, MS-MVP
>
>
>
> In ,
> Kelly > typed:
> > Well, guess that makes sense, Jim. Sorta like can't have a Hurricane
> > without going to Pat O' Briens? :o)
http://www.patobriens.com/tour.html
> >
> > BTW, received your mail, thanks and go Ron! :o)
> >
> >
> > "Jim Byrd" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Kelly - back in my misspent youth, in addition to playing volleyball on
> the
> >> beach, we used to have pool parties which were commonly referred to as
> >> "Splashes"; the saying used to be: "You can't have a Splash without a
> >> Ripple!" :)
> >>
> >> --
> >> Please respond in the same thread.
> >> Regards, Jim
> >>
> >>
> >> In ,
> >> Kelly > typed:
> >>> <LOL> We are playing Jeopardy now. :o)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "JAX" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>> Was it Ripple? I have drank/drunk some of that too.
> >>>>
> >>>> JAX
>

cquirke (MVP Win9x)

February 6th 04, 05:09 AM

On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 02:06:02 -0500, "PA Bear" > wrote:

>Turn the tables for a minute: You're an author and have worked for years on
>a novel. Now it's been published. Someone walks into Barnes & Noble and
>shoplifts your book, depriving you of the income from the sale. This guy's
>defense is, "I'll take a look at it and if I like the book I'll go out and buy it."

There are two damages here:
- putative lost revenue to the author
- real loss of value to the book store

Only the first applies with copies of sware. In your example, every
visit to a public library imposes the first, in any case.

If you want to use Kazaa no nick stuff, the least you can do is deny
Kazaa their revenue stream - which is at least partly derived from
revenue re-direction - by using Kazaa Lite.

Analogy for revenue re-direction: You hotwire Barnes and Noble's cash
register so that deposits are channelled into your account.

Here's how it works:
- web site author creates and provides value
- web author sells advert space to get paid for this value
- commercial malware paints thier own ads over these ads
- so all add click revenue is diverted to commercial malware vendor

I don't see much wriggle-room there; that sucks, pure and simple.

>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -
Poor managers blame their fools
>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -

cquirke (MVP Win9x)

February 6th 04, 05:09 AM

On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 02:06:02 -0500, "PA Bear" > wrote:

>Turn the tables for a minute: You're an author and have worked for years on
>a novel. Now it's been published. Someone walks into Barnes & Noble and
>shoplifts your book, depriving you of the income from the sale. This guy's
>defense is, "I'll take a look at it and if I like the book I'll go out and buy it."

There are two damages here:
- putative lost revenue to the author
- real loss of value to the book store

Only the first applies with copies of sware. In your example, every
visit to a public library imposes the first, in any case.

If you want to use Kazaa no nick stuff, the least you can do is deny
Kazaa their revenue stream - which is at least partly derived from
revenue re-direction - by using Kazaa Lite.

Analogy for revenue re-direction: You hotwire Barnes and Noble's cash
register so that deposits are channelled into your account.

Here's how it works:
- web site author creates and provides value
- web author sells advert space to get paid for this value
- commercial malware paints thier own ads over these ads
- so all add click revenue is diverted to commercial malware vendor

I don't see much wriggle-room there; that sucks, pure and simple.

>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -
Poor managers blame their fools
>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -

cquirke (MVP Win9x)

February 6th 04, 05:11 AM

On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 02:06:02 -0500, "PA Bear" > wrote:

>Turn the tables for a minute: You're an author and have worked for years on
>a novel. Now it's been published. Someone walks into Barnes & Noble and
>shoplifts your book, depriving you of the income from the sale. This guy's
>defense is, "I'll take a look at it and if I like the book I'll go out and buy it."

There are two damages here:
- putative lost revenue to the author
- real loss of value to the book store

Only the first applies with copies of sware. In your example, every
visit to a public library imposes the first, in any case.

If you want to use Kazaa no nick stuff, the least you can do is deny
Kazaa their revenue stream - which is at least partly derived from
revenue re-direction - by using Kazaa Lite.

Analogy for revenue re-direction: You hotwire Barnes and Noble's cash
register so that deposits are channelled into your account.

Here's how it works:
- web site author creates and provides value
- web author sells advert space to get paid for this value
- commercial malware paints thier own ads over these ads
- so all add click revenue is diverted to commercial malware vendor

I don't see much wriggle-room there; that sucks, pure and simple.

>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -
Poor managers blame their fools
>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -

cquirke (MVP Win9x)

February 6th 04, 05:23 AM

On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 02:06:02 -0500, "PA Bear" > wrote:

>Turn the tables for a minute: You're an author and have worked for years on
>a novel. Now it's been published. Someone walks into Barnes & Noble and
>shoplifts your book, depriving you of the income from the sale. This guy's
>defense is, "I'll take a look at it and if I like the book I'll go out and buy it."

There are two damages here:
- putative lost revenue to the author
- real loss of value to the book store

Only the first applies with copies of sware. In your example, every
visit to a public library imposes the first, in any case.

If you want to use Kazaa no nick stuff, the least you can do is deny
Kazaa their revenue stream - which is at least partly derived from
revenue re-direction - by using Kazaa Lite.

Analogy for revenue re-direction: You hotwire Barnes and Noble's cash
register so that deposits are channelled into your account.

Here's how it works:
- web site author creates and provides value
- web author sells advert space to get paid for this value
- commercial malware paints thier own ads over these ads
- so all add click revenue is diverted to commercial malware vendor

I don't see much wriggle-room there; that sucks, pure and simple.

>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -
Poor managers blame their fools
>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -

cquirke (MVP Win9x)

February 6th 04, 05:27 AM

On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 02:06:02 -0500, "PA Bear" > wrote:

>Turn the tables for a minute: You're an author and have worked for years on
>a novel. Now it's been published. Someone walks into Barnes & Noble and
>shoplifts your book, depriving you of the income from the sale. This guy's
>defense is, "I'll take a look at it and if I like the book I'll go out and buy it."

There are two damages here:
- putative lost revenue to the author
- real loss of value to the book store

Only the first applies with copies of sware. In your example, every
visit to a public library imposes the first, in any case.

If you want to use Kazaa no nick stuff, the least you can do is deny
Kazaa their revenue stream - which is at least partly derived from
revenue re-direction - by using Kazaa Lite.

Analogy for revenue re-direction: You hotwire Barnes and Noble's cash
register so that deposits are channelled into your account.

Here's how it works:
- web site author creates and provides value
- web author sells advert space to get paid for this value
- commercial malware paints thier own ads over these ads
- so all add click revenue is diverted to commercial malware vendor

I don't see much wriggle-room there; that sucks, pure and simple.

>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -
Poor managers blame their fools
>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -

cquirke (MVP Win9x)

February 6th 04, 05:32 AM

On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 02:06:02 -0500, "PA Bear" > wrote:

>Turn the tables for a minute: You're an author and have worked for years on
>a novel. Now it's been published. Someone walks into Barnes & Noble and
>shoplifts your book, depriving you of the income from the sale. This guy's
>defense is, "I'll take a look at it and if I like the book I'll go out and buy it."

There are two damages here:
- putative lost revenue to the author
- real loss of value to the book store

Only the first applies with copies of sware. In your example, every
visit to a public library imposes the first, in any case.

If you want to use Kazaa no nick stuff, the least you can do is deny
Kazaa their revenue stream - which is at least partly derived from
revenue re-direction - by using Kazaa Lite.

Analogy for revenue re-direction: You hotwire Barnes and Noble's cash
register so that deposits are channelled into your account.

Here's how it works:
- web site author creates and provides value
- web author sells advert space to get paid for this value
- commercial malware paints thier own ads over these ads
- so all add click revenue is diverted to commercial malware vendor

I don't see much wriggle-room there; that sucks, pure and simple.

>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -
Poor managers blame their fools
>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -

cquirke (MVP Win9x)

February 6th 04, 05:41 AM

On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 02:06:02 -0500, "PA Bear" > wrote:

>Turn the tables for a minute: You're an author and have worked for years on
>a novel. Now it's been published. Someone walks into Barnes & Noble and
>shoplifts your book, depriving you of the income from the sale. This guy's
>defense is, "I'll take a look at it and if I like the book I'll go out and buy it."

There are two damages here:
- putative lost revenue to the author
- real loss of value to the book store

Only the first applies with copies of sware. In your example, every
visit to a public library imposes the first, in any case.

If you want to use Kazaa no nick stuff, the least you can do is deny
Kazaa their revenue stream - which is at least partly derived from
revenue re-direction - by using Kazaa Lite.

Analogy for revenue re-direction: You hotwire Barnes and Noble's cash
register so that deposits are channelled into your account.

Here's how it works:
- web site author creates and provides value
- web author sells advert space to get paid for this value
- commercial malware paints thier own ads over these ads
- so all add click revenue is diverted to commercial malware vendor

I don't see much wriggle-room there; that sucks, pure and simple.

>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -
Poor managers blame their fools
>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -

cquirke (MVP Win9x)

February 6th 04, 05:44 AM

On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 02:06:02 -0500, "PA Bear" > wrote:

>Turn the tables for a minute: You're an author and have worked for years on
>a novel. Now it's been published. Someone walks into Barnes & Noble and
>shoplifts your book, depriving you of the income from the sale. This guy's
>defense is, "I'll take a look at it and if I like the book I'll go out and buy it."

There are two damages here:
- putative lost revenue to the author
- real loss of value to the book store

Only the first applies with copies of sware. In your example, every
visit to a public library imposes the first, in any case.

If you want to use Kazaa no nick stuff, the least you can do is deny
Kazaa their revenue stream - which is at least partly derived from
revenue re-direction - by using Kazaa Lite.

Analogy for revenue re-direction: You hotwire Barnes and Noble's cash
register so that deposits are channelled into your account.

Here's how it works:
- web site author creates and provides value
- web author sells advert space to get paid for this value
- commercial malware paints thier own ads over these ads
- so all add click revenue is diverted to commercial malware vendor

I don't see much wriggle-room there; that sucks, pure and simple.

>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -
Poor managers blame their fools
>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -

PA Bear

February 7th 04, 06:41 AM

edg wrote:
> Quote:
> Turn the tables for a minute: You're an author and have worked for years
> on
> a novel. Now it's been published. Someone walks into Barnes & Noble and
> shoplifts your book, depriving you of the income from the sale. This
> guy's
> defense is, "I'll take a look at it and if I like the book I'll go out and
> buy it."
> End-Quote
>
> The author already got his $ when Barnes & Noble bought the book from the
> publisher.
>
> Quote:
> You're a great cook and devise a fabulous new recipe for chocolate chip
> cookies. You patent/copyright the recipe and put it on the market.
> Someone
> walks into a store and shoplifts a package of your cookies, saying, "Hey,
> if
> I like 'em, I'll come back and pay for 'em."
> End-Quote
>
> If you let someone walk out of your store without paying you.. you're a
> chump.
>
> Quote:
> It's *stealing* and "Thou shalt not steal." Be glad you don't live in
> Iran
> or Egypt: If you were caught downloading and sharing copyrighted files
> from
> the 'net, your hand would be cut off.
> End-Quote:
>
> Iran & Egypt aren't christian countries, therefore "Thou shalt not steal"
> doesn't apply.
>
>
> I'm sorry to say... but if you're gunna post an argument.. make sure it's
> valid.

If you're gonna talk about business practices and cross-cultural values,
make sure you know what you're talking about.
--
~/MR/ PA Bear

Kelly

February 7th 04, 06:42 AM

> ~/MR/ PA Bear

<LOL>

--
All the Best,
Kelly

MS-MVP Win98/XP
[AE-Windows® XP]

Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com

Utilities for Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_u.htm#xp_util

"PA Bear" > wrote in message
...
> edg wrote:
> > Quote:
> > Turn the tables for a minute: You're an author and have worked for years
> > on
> > a novel. Now it's been published. Someone walks into Barnes & Noble
and
> > shoplifts your book, depriving you of the income from the sale. This
> > guy's
> > defense is, "I'll take a look at it and if I like the book I'll go out
and
> > buy it."
> > End-Quote
> >
> > The author already got his $ when Barnes & Noble bought the book from
the
> > publisher.
> >
> > Quote:
> > You're a great cook and devise a fabulous new recipe for chocolate chip
> > cookies. You patent/copyright the recipe and put it on the market.
> > Someone
> > walks into a store and shoplifts a package of your cookies, saying,
"Hey,
> > if
> > I like 'em, I'll come back and pay for 'em."
> > End-Quote
> >
> > If you let someone walk out of your store without paying you.. you're a
> > chump.
> >
> > Quote:
> > It's *stealing* and "Thou shalt not steal." Be glad you don't live in
> > Iran
> > or Egypt: If you were caught downloading and sharing copyrighted files
> > from
> > the 'net, your hand would be cut off.
> > End-Quote:
> >
> > Iran & Egypt aren't christian countries, therefore "Thou shalt not
steal"
> > doesn't apply.
> >
> >
> > I'm sorry to say... but if you're gunna post an argument.. make sure
it's
> > valid.
>
> If you're gonna talk about business practices and cross-cultural values,
> make sure you know what you're talking about.
> --
> ~/MR/ PA Bear
>

David

February 9th 04, 06:08 PM

> wrote in news:8a3d01c3ea1f
:

> I use Kazaa to download almost anything and everything I
> can. I know this is stealing but it doesn't feel so
> wrong as stealing. My main question is: I download all
> sorts of crap, but it is all stuff that I wouldn't have
> purchased anyway. The stuff that I know is high quality,
> and worth my money, then I go out and buy. Is what I'm
> doing wrong, because most of my free time is spent
> watching, using, or listening to something that i did not
> pay for! There are cetain CDs I really like so I go and
> buy them. The same applies with movies, as well as
> software, but I'd like to here other people's opinions on
> the subject?. Do you do it? How do you feel about it?
> etc.

I used to use File-Sharing software to demo programs. If I liked the
program, I would buy to full copy. If I didn't like it. I'd erase it.

Another poster used a book/shoplifting anaology. But, that doesn't
fit. If I buy a book, and later decide to return, as long as I have a
receipt, I can. Not so with software. Most retailers won't accept retun
of an open software package. So, I feel I have the right to Try before I
buy.

--

David

Programmers write "Help Files" for a reason. use them.

"Due to Viewer dicretion...
Graphic violence is advised"

http://www.HeroicStories.com/
http://www.thisistrue.com/

edg

February 10th 04, 05:01 AM

And you're telling me you don't have a single piece of bootleg music? Or perhaps a recorded VHS movie? How do you feel about my recording music off the radio? Here's my view: You don't want me to listen to your music without paying you for it? Well then
don't play it where I can hear/record it then. Music is art, art should be shared. You don't wanna share it, then DON'T.

-edg

Thiefs R Us

February 10th 04, 03:05 PM

It's very easy to say that downloading full final software from the internet
is stealing and as the law stands it is. But take a look at it from the
ordinary persons perspective. I have gone out and bought retail software
that was no better than beta software. I have bought games only to find that
they are flawed and won't run properly. For example I bought Unreal Return
to NaPali the original Unreal add on expansion pack. It had so many problems
that it wouldn't run and I found everyone who bought it had the same
problem. On contacting the publishers of the game they just gave the same
non committal reply and wouldn't be drawn into a discussion about the
problems. It took them over a year to put out a patch that fixed the
problem.

I don't make a lot of money and was a mature student for a while so you can
imagine money was tight. I came across warez sites by accident a few years
ago and downloaded software thinking it was shareware. I soon learned the
truth. I could give you more examples of badly programmed software being
sold but the point is when software manufacturers put out damaged goods why
should I pay my hard earned money until I am sure it works. Fully functional
time limited shareware is great as it gives you a proper chance to check out
if the software both works correctly and also suites your own personal
needs. I download software via file sharing programs but I still go and buy
the software retail if I like it and use it. I just bought Unreal 2 The
Awakening from Amazon even though I got it from an ftp site before hand.

I don't care if you want to call me a thief. What are software companies who
put out software that they know is not fully working. They put it out for
sale then put out patches to fix the errors. I am not talking about isolated
incidents or small companies, I'm talking about companies like Symantec,
they have just added product activation to their 2004 products but it has
been shown to be flawed. A number of people bought Norton Antivirus legally
and activated it only to find that sometime later the program unactivated
itself and would not reactivate. At the time I read about the problem
Norton\Symantec were aware of the problem but did not have a fix so people
who had bought Norton Antivirus 2004 were left without any Antivirus
protection and as any one knows in this day and age you cannot comfortably
surf the internet or use email without adequate security.

I also think it is unfair for people to say I can only run one version of a
program on one computer. I own two computers and if I want to install a
program on both why shouldn't I. If I have paid for it I should be able to
install on my own home computers without breaking dubious EULA's. I can
understand companies buying multiple licenses but home users should have
reasonable rights to use software as they see fit. As long as ridicules
EULA's exist people will break the law and download software. How many of
you who call us thieves have bought music CDs or vinyl albums and recorded
them either completely or made your own compilation cassette tapes or
nowadays CDs for use in your car, home or any place you wanted. Recording
music that you own is still illegal to this day as far as I know but I would
bet that most of you who shout thief at us for downloading copyrighted data
have broken copyright yourself in the past. I remember the same arguments
years ago when cassette tapes were added to radios. We all recorded music
off the radio and everyone said it would be the end of the music business
but was it, of course not. In fact the music business has ripped of the
public for too long. Just look how much they charge for music CDs when CDs
are so cheap to produce. If I buy a book and read it then give it to a
friend to read instead of telling him to go and buy it is that wrong. No, so
why should it be wrong for me to check out software properly and if I decide
to keep it and go out and buy it legally for my own use then I should be
allowed to install it on my own computers without having to activate it. I
will continue to bypass product activation as long as my conscience allows
it.

"JAX" > wrote in message
...
> Was it Ripple? I have drank/drunk some of that too.
>
> JAX
>
> "Kelly" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Was messin' with him. He is a wine taster/tester. But yes, is my
> favorite.
> > What was it that Red Foxx drank on Sanford and Son? I forget.......
:o)
> >
> > --
> > All the Best,
> > Kelly
> >
> > MS-MVP Win98/XP
> > [AE-Windows® XP]
> >
> > Troubleshooting Windows XP
> > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com
> >
> > Utilities for Windows XP
> > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_u.htm#xp_util
> >
> >
> > "JAX" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > "Kendall Jackson Chardonnay?"
> > >
> > > Is that anything like Muscatel?
> > >
> > > JAX
> > >
> > > "Kelly" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Whatcha think about: Kendall Jackson Chardonnay? Can I download
it?
> > > Just
> > > > kidding, but am serious on the question. :o)
> > > >
> > > > All the Best,
> > > > Kelly
> > > >
> > > > MS-MVP Win98/XP
> > > > [AE-Windows® XP]
> > > >
> > > > Troubleshooting Windows XP
> > > > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com
> > > >
> > > > Utilities for Windows XP
> > > > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_u.htm#xp_util
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "PA Bear" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > Turn the tables for a minute: You're an author and have worked for
> > years
> > > > on
> > > > > a novel. Now it's been published. Someone walks into Barnes &
> Noble
> > > and
> > > > > shoplifts your book, depriving you of the income from the sale.
> This
> > > > guy's
> > > > > defense is, "I'll take a look at it and if I like the book I'll go
> out
> > > and
> > > > > buy it."
> > > > >
> > > > > How do you feel about it? Do you think this guy would really go
out
> > and
> > > > buy
> > > > > the book after he's already got one in his hot little hands?
> > > > >
> > > > > You're a great cook and devise a fabulous new recipe for chocolate
> > chip
> > > > > cookies. You patent/copyright the recipe and put it on the
market.
> > > > Someone
> > > > > walks into a store and shoplifts a package of your cookies,
saying,
> > > "Hey,
> > > > if
> > > > > I like 'em, I'll come back and pay for 'em."
> > > > >
> > > > > How do you feel about it? Do you think this guy's really gonna
come
> > > back
> > > > > and pay for the cookies?
> > > > >
> > > > > It's *stealing* and "Thou shalt not steal." Be glad you don't
live
> in
> > > > Iran
> > > > > or Egypt: If you were caught downloading and sharing copyrighted
> files
> > > > from
> > > > > the 'net, your hand would be cut off.
> > > > > --
> > > > > ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> > > > > MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE)
> > > > > AH-VSOP
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > I use Kazaa to download almost anything and everything I
> > > > > > can. I know this is stealing but it doesn't feel so
> > > > > > wrong as stealing. My main question is: I download all
> > > > > > sorts of crap, but it is all stuff that I wouldn't have
> > > > > > purchased anyway. The stuff that I know is high quality,
> > > > > > and worth my money, then I go out and buy. Is what I'm
> > > > > > doing wrong, because most of my free time is spent
> > > > > > watching, using, or listening to something that i did not
> > > > > > pay for! There are cetain CDs I really like so I go and
> > > > > > buy them. The same applies with movies, as well as
> > > > > > software, but I'd like to here other people's opinions on
> > > > > > the subject?. Do you do it? How do you feel about it?
> > > > > > etc.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

David H. Lipman

February 10th 04, 03:06 PM

Carey Frisch [MVP]

February 10th 04, 03:06 PM

"I will continue to bypass product activation as long as my conscience allows
it."

==> It's obvious you don't even have a conscious! How often do you visit
department stores and shoplift items you want but can't afford?

GwD

February 10th 04, 03:43 PM

I went to a car dealership and wanted to borrow a car for a few months to
test it. After all I don't want to spend any money on a car if its not up to
my standards. But they said no. So maybe I should go back tonight and just
take one. It should not be a problem because if I really do like it I'm sure
I'll buy one someday.

sgopus

February 10th 04, 04:21 PM

See how easy it is, to create (various) reasons to steal,=20
so you don't have the money, excuse me (do without)!
go get a second job, get a deeper hold on your beliefs in=20
GOD and the difference between right and wrong.

Don't make excuses, just because it's easy doesn't mean=20
it's right. I'm ordinary, I don't use Kazaa, I'm not=20
rich, I do without..till I can save up the bucks.. yep=20
I've bought some stinkers, and yep I've complained...

>-----Original Message-----
>It's very easy to say that downloading full final=20
software from the internet
>is stealing and as the law stands it is. But take a look=20
at it from the
>ordinary persons perspective. I have gone out and bought=20
retail software
>that was no better than beta software. I have bought=20
games only to find that
>they are flawed and won't run properly. For example I=20
bought Unreal Return
>to NaPali the original Unreal add on expansion pack. It=20
had so many problems
>that it wouldn't run and I found everyone who bought it=20
had the same
>problem. On contacting the publishers of the game they=20
just gave the same
>non committal reply and wouldn't be drawn into a=20
discussion about the
>problems. It took them over a year to put out a patch=20
that fixed the
>problem.
>
>I don't make a lot of money and was a mature student for=20
a while so you can
>imagine money was tight. I came across warez sites by=20
accident a few years
>ago and downloaded software thinking it was shareware. I=20
soon learned the
>truth. I could give you more examples of badly programmed=20
software being
>sold but the point is when software manufacturers put out=20
damaged goods why
>should I pay my hard earned money until I am sure it=20
works. Fully functional
>time limited shareware is great as it gives you a proper=20
chance to check out
>if the software both works correctly and also suites your=20
own personal
>needs. I download software via file sharing programs but=20
I still go and buy
>the software retail if I like it and use it. I just=20
bought Unreal 2 The
>Awakening from Amazon even though I got it from an ftp=20
site before hand.
>
>I don't care if you want to call me a thief. What are=20
software companies who
>put out software that they know is not fully working.=20
They put it out for
>sale then put out patches to fix the errors. I am not=20
talking about isolated
>incidents or small companies, I'm talking about companies=20
like Symantec,
>they have just added product activation to their 2004=20
products but it has
>been shown to be flawed. A number of people bought Norton=20
Antivirus legally
>and activated it only to find that sometime later the=20
program unactivated
>itself and would not reactivate. At the time I read about=20
the problem
>Norton\Symantec were aware of the problem but did not=20
have a fix so people
>who had bought Norton Antivirus 2004 were left without=20
any Antivirus
>protection and as any one knows in this day and age you=20
cannot comfortably
>surf the internet or use email without adequate security.
>
>I also think it is unfair for people to say I can only=20
run one version of a
>program on one computer. I own two computers and if I=20
want to install a
>program on both why shouldn't I. If I have paid for it I=20
should be able to
>install on my own home computers without breaking dubious=20
EULA's. I can
>understand companies buying multiple licenses but home=20
users should have
>reasonable rights to use software as they see fit. As=20
long as ridicules
>EULA's exist people will break the law and download=20
software. How many of
>you who call us thieves have bought music CDs or vinyl=20
albums and recorded
>them either completely or made your own compilation=20
cassette tapes or
>nowadays CDs for use in your car, home or any place you=20
wanted. Recording
>music that you own is still illegal to this day as far as=20
I know but I would
>bet that most of you who shout thief at us for=20
downloading copyrighted data
>have broken copyright yourself in the past. I remember=20
the same arguments
>years ago when cassette tapes were added to radios. We=20
all recorded music
>off the radio and everyone said it would be the end of=20
the music business
>but was it, of course not. In fact the music business has=20
ripped of the
>public for too long. Just look how much they charge for=20
music CDs when CDs
>are so cheap to produce. If I buy a book and read it then=20
give it to a
>friend to read instead of telling him to go and buy it is=20
that wrong. No, so
>why should it be wrong for me to check out software=20
properly and if I decide
>to keep it and go out and buy it legally for my own use=20
then I should be
>allowed to install it on my own computers without having=20
to activate it. I
>will continue to bypass product activation as long as my=20
conscience allows
>it.
>
>
>
>"JAX" > wrote in message
...
>> Was it Ripple? I have drank/drunk some of that too.
>>
>> JAX
>>
>> "Kelly" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Was messin' with him. He is a wine taster/tester. =20
But yes, is my
>> favorite.
>> > What was it that Red Foxx drank on Sanford and Son? =20
I forget.......
>:o)
>> >
>> > --=20
>> > All the Best,
>> > Kelly
>> >
>> > MS-MVP Win98/XP
>> > [AE-Windows=AE XP]
>> >
>> > Troubleshooting Windows XP
>> > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com
>> >
>> > Utilities for Windows XP
>> > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_u.htm#xp_util
>> >
>> >
>> > "JAX" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> > > "Kendall Jackson Chardonnay?"
>> > >
>> > > Is that anything like Muscatel?
>> > >
>> > > JAX
>> > >
>> > > "Kelly" > wrote in message
>> > > ...
>> > > > Whatcha think about: Kendall Jackson=20
Chardonnay? Can I download
>it?
>> > > Just
>> > > > kidding, but am serious on the question. :o)
>> > > >
>> > > > All the Best,
>> > > > Kelly
>> > > >
>> > > > MS-MVP Win98/XP
>> > > > [AE-Windows=AE XP]
>> > > >
>> > > > Troubleshooting Windows XP
>> > > > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com
>> > > >
>> > > > Utilities for Windows XP
>> > > > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_u.htm#xp_util
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > "PA Bear" > wrote in message
>> > > > ...
>> > > > > Turn the tables for a minute: You're an author=20
and have worked for
>> > years
>> > > > on
>> > > > > a novel. Now it's been published. Someone=20
walks into Barnes &
>> Noble
>> > > and
>> > > > > shoplifts your book, depriving you of the=20
income from the sale.
>> This
>> > > > guy's
>> > > > > defense is, "I'll take a look at it and if I=20
like the book I'll go
>> out
>> > > and
>> > > > > buy it."
>> > > > >
>> > > > > How do you feel about it? Do you think this=20
guy would really go
>out
>> > and
>> > > > buy
>> > > > > the book after he's already got one in his hot=20
little hands?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > You're a great cook and devise a fabulous new=20
recipe for chocolate
>> > chip
>> > > > > cookies. You patent/copyright the recipe and=20
put it on the
>market.
>> > > > Someone
>> > > > > walks into a store and shoplifts a package of=20
your cookies,
>saying,
>> > > "Hey,
>> > > > if
>> > > > > I like 'em, I'll come back and pay for 'em."
>> > > > >
>> > > > > How do you feel about it? Do you think this=20
guy's really gonna
>come
>> > > back
>> > > > > and pay for the cookies?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > It's *stealing* and "Thou shalt not steal." Be=20
glad you don't
>live
>> in
>> > > > Iran
>> > > > > or Egypt: If you were caught downloading and=20
sharing copyrighted
>> files
>> > > > from
>> > > > > the 'net, your hand would be cut off.
>> > > > > --=20
>> > > > > ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
>> > > > > MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE)
>> > > > > AH-VSOP
>> > > > >
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > I use Kazaa to download almost anything and=20
everything I
>> > > > > > can. I know this is stealing but it doesn't=20
feel so
>> > > > > > wrong as stealing. My main question is: I=20
download all
>> > > > > > sorts of crap, but it is all stuff that I=20
wouldn't have
>> > > > > > purchased anyway. The stuff that I know is=20
high quality,
>> > > > > > and worth my money, then I go out and buy. =20
Is what I'm
>> > > > > > doing wrong, because most of my free time is=20
spent
>> > > > > > watching, using, or listening to something=20
that i did not
>> > > > > > pay for! There are cetain CDs I really like=20
so I go and
>> > > > > > buy them. The same applies with movies, as=20
well as
>> > > > > > software, but I'd like to here other people's=20
opinions on
>> > > > > > the subject?. Do you do it? How do you=20
feel about it?
>> > > > > > etc.
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>.
>

kurttrail

February 10th 04, 04:41 PM

Carey Frisch [MVP] wrote:

> "I will continue to bypass product activation as long as my
> conscience allows it."
>
> ==> It's obvious you don't even have a conscious! How often do you
> visit department stores and shoplift items you want but can't
> afford?

Carey, you are just so full of SH*T! "Fair Use" can't not be equated as
shoplifting.

NOT ONE PERSON has ever been charged, let alone convicted, for any kind
of wrong doing, for installing legally purchased software on more than
one computer, for their private non-commercial use!

Until you A**HOLES come up with a law or legal precedent that makes
installing software on more than one computer illegal, you are doing
nothing more than spreading FUD!

ESAD!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"

GwD

February 10th 04, 05:25 PM

Or until you come up with a law or legal precedent that makes
installing software on more than one computer legal, YOU are doing
nothing more than spreading FUD!

"kurttrail" > wrote in message
...
> Carey Frisch [MVP] wrote:
>
> > "I will continue to bypass product activation as long as my
> > conscience allows it."
> >
> > ==> It's obvious you don't even have a conscious! How often do you
> > visit department stores and shoplift items you want but can't
> > afford?
>
> Carey, you are just so full of SH*T! "Fair Use" can't not be equated as
> shoplifting.
>
> NOT ONE PERSON has ever been charged, let alone convicted, for any kind
> of wrong doing, for installing legally purchased software on more than
> one computer, for their private non-commercial use!
>
> Until you A**HOLES come up with a law or legal precedent that makes
> installing software on more than one computer illegal, you are doing
> nothing more than spreading FUD!
>
> ESAD!
>
> --
> Peace!
> Kurt
> Self-anointed Moderator
> microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
> http://microscum.com
> "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
> "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
>
>

kurttrail

February 10th 04, 06:22 PM

GwD wrote:

> Or until you come up with a law or legal precedent that makes
> installing software on more than one computer legal, YOU are doing
> nothing more than spreading FUD!

Title 17 Chapter 1 Section 117

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"

kurttrail

February 10th 04, 06:43 PM

GwD wrote:

> Or until you come up with a law or legal precedent that makes
> installing software on more than one computer legal, YOU are doing
> nothing more than spreading FUD!

It's the status quo. NO manufacturer of retail goods has the right to
tell me how I use those goods, that I legally purchase, for use in my
home!

When did we change the constitution to give corporations the right to
tell an individuals what they can and can't do in the privacy of their
own home?

Get real! Before I believe that MS has rights over me in the privacy of
my own home, they are gonna have to prove it! And no rational person
would think any differently!

You can believe on nothing more than FAITH that MS has the right to tell
you what you can and can't do with the retail products you buy for use
in YOUR home, but all of us rational human beings will wait for absolute
proof before we bow down to the whims of some predatory monopolist in
OUR homes!

What has MS done to deserve your faith in their unsubstantiated words?

Go suck some MicroAss!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"

Homer

February 10th 04, 11:42 PM

sgopus you say you complain but did it ever get you anywhere with either
software manufacturers or hardware vendors. Some do actually try and help
sort out problems but most don't even bother to reply to emails when you
have problems. I fell victim to the intel rdram to pc133 converter issue a
few years ago when I bought an asus motherboard that had the problem built
in and asus just didn't want to know, nor did the company I bought the board
from. The software problems I have had have been too many to list and I was
a physicist so I understand the complexity of computers but that doesn't
release programmers of their responsibility to the end user even though they
all write eulas that try to legaly remove them from responsibility by saying
that if you install the software and it breaks your computer you have no
legal come back to them.

Carey can you honestly say you have never broken any copyright. As the
original poster said people record cds either onto tapes or nowadays onto
thier own compilation cds, have you honestly never recorded any music that
you bought onto other material even for your own use. If you have that is
still breaking copyright law and legaly just as wrong as downloading digital
data. I find it very hard to believe that everyone here reads and obeys to
the letter every copyrighted property that they own. That includes not
recording CDs that they already own. I make my own compilation CDs of music
that I own but here in UK according to copyright law that is illegal. I
don't have a morel problem with it because I own the disc but it is still
illegal to reproduce it for my own use, how can that be right. The original
poster makes some valid points about the right to inststal software on more
than one computer. I've never used kazza but I have used other file sharing
programs usually to download old songs from my youth. I have about 20 mp3s
so I must be a thief as well but at least I will stand up and admit it, will
you? As I said I find it very hard to believe that you or any other person
here has never broken copyright law it's almost imposible. Remember even
recording music you own is still illegal.

"sgopus" > wrote in message
...
See how easy it is, to create (various) reasons to steal,
so you don't have the money, excuse me (do without)!
go get a second job, get a deeper hold on your beliefs in
GOD and the difference between right and wrong.

Don't make excuses, just because it's easy doesn't mean
it's right. I'm ordinary, I don't use Kazaa, I'm not
rich, I do without..till I can save up the bucks.. yep
I've bought some stinkers, and yep I've complained...

>-----Original Message-----
>It's very easy to say that downloading full final
software from the internet
>is stealing and as the law stands it is. But take a look
at it from the
>ordinary persons perspective. I have gone out and bought
retail software
>that was no better than beta software. I have bought
games only to find that
>they are flawed and won't run properly. For example I
bought Unreal Return
>to NaPali the original Unreal add on expansion pack. It
had so many problems
>that it wouldn't run and I found everyone who bought it
had the same
>problem. On contacting the publishers of the game they
just gave the same
>non committal reply and wouldn't be drawn into a
discussion about the
>problems. It took them over a year to put out a patch
that fixed the
>problem.
>
>I don't make a lot of money and was a mature student for
a while so you can
>imagine money was tight. I came across warez sites by
accident a few years
>ago and downloaded software thinking it was shareware. I
soon learned the
>truth. I could give you more examples of badly programmed
software being
>sold but the point is when software manufacturers put out
damaged goods why
>should I pay my hard earned money until I am sure it
works. Fully functional
>time limited shareware is great as it gives you a proper
chance to check out
>if the software both works correctly and also suites your
own personal
>needs. I download software via file sharing programs but
I still go and buy
>the software retail if I like it and use it. I just
bought Unreal 2 The
>Awakening from Amazon even though I got it from an ftp
site before hand.
>
>I don't care if you want to call me a thief. What are
software companies who
>put out software that they know is not fully working.
They put it out for
>sale then put out patches to fix the errors. I am not
talking about isolated
>incidents or small companies, I'm talking about companies
like Symantec,
>they have just added product activation to their 2004
products but it has
>been shown to be flawed. A number of people bought Norton
Antivirus legally
>and activated it only to find that sometime later the
program unactivated
>itself and would not reactivate. At the time I read about
the problem
>Norton\Symantec were aware of the problem but did not
have a fix so people
>who had bought Norton Antivirus 2004 were left without
any Antivirus
>protection and as any one knows in this day and age you
cannot comfortably
>surf the internet or use email without adequate security.
>
>I also think it is unfair for people to say I can only
run one version of a
>program on one computer. I own two computers and if I
want to install a
>program on both why shouldn't I. If I have paid for it I
should be able to
>install on my own home computers without breaking dubious
EULA's. I can
>understand companies buying multiple licenses but home
users should have
>reasonable rights to use software as they see fit. As
long as ridicules
>EULA's exist people will break the law and download
software. How many of
>you who call us thieves have bought music CDs or vinyl
albums and recorded
>them either completely or made your own compilation
cassette tapes or
>nowadays CDs for use in your car, home or any place you
wanted. Recording
>music that you own is still illegal to this day as far as
I know but I would
>bet that most of you who shout thief at us for
downloading copyrighted data
>have broken copyright yourself in the past. I remember
the same arguments
>years ago when cassette tapes were added to radios. We
all recorded music
>off the radio and everyone said it would be the end of
the music business
>but was it, of course not. In fact the music business has
ripped of the
>public for too long. Just look how much they charge for
music CDs when CDs
>are so cheap to produce. If I buy a book and read it then
give it to a
>friend to read instead of telling him to go and buy it is
that wrong. No, so
>why should it be wrong for me to check out software
properly and if I decide
>to keep it and go out and buy it legally for my own use
then I should be
>allowed to install it on my own computers without having
to activate it. I
>will continue to bypass product activation as long as my
conscience allows
>it.
>
>
>
>"JAX" > wrote in message
...
>> Was it Ripple? I have drank/drunk some of that too.
>>
>> JAX
>>
>> "Kelly" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Was messin' with him. He is a wine taster/tester.
But yes, is my
>> favorite.
>> > What was it that Red Foxx drank on Sanford and Son?
I forget.......
>:o)
>> >
>> > --
>> > All the Best,
>> > Kelly
>> >
>> > MS-MVP Win98/XP
>> > [AE-Windows® XP]
>> >
>> > Troubleshooting Windows XP
>> > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com
>> >
>> > Utilities for Windows XP
>> > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_u.htm#xp_util
>> >
>> >
>> > "JAX" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> > > "Kendall Jackson Chardonnay?"
>> > >
>> > > Is that anything like Muscatel?
>> > >
>> > > JAX
>> > >
>> > > "Kelly" > wrote in message
>> > > ...
>> > > > Whatcha think about: Kendall Jackson
Chardonnay? Can I download
>it?
>> > > Just
>> > > > kidding, but am serious on the question. :o)
>> > > >
>> > > > All the Best,
>> > > > Kelly
>> > > >
>> > > > MS-MVP Win98/XP
>> > > > [AE-Windows® XP]
>> > > >
>> > > > Troubleshooting Windows XP
>> > > > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com
>> > > >
>> > > > Utilities for Windows XP
>> > > > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_u.htm#xp_util
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > "PA Bear" > wrote in message
>> > > > ...
>> > > > > Turn the tables for a minute: You're an author
and have worked for
>> > years
>> > > > on
>> > > > > a novel. Now it's been published. Someone
walks into Barnes &
>> Noble
>> > > and
>> > > > > shoplifts your book, depriving you of the
income from the sale.
>> This
>> > > > guy's
>> > > > > defense is, "I'll take a look at it and if I
like the book I'll go
>> out
>> > > and
>> > > > > buy it."
>> > > > >
>> > > > > How do you feel about it? Do you think this
guy would really go
>out
>> > and
>> > > > buy
>> > > > > the book after he's already got one in his hot
little hands?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > You're a great cook and devise a fabulous new
recipe for chocolate
>> > chip
>> > > > > cookies. You patent/copyright the recipe and
put it on the
>market.
>> > > > Someone
>> > > > > walks into a store and shoplifts a package of
your cookies,
>saying,
>> > > "Hey,
>> > > > if
>> > > > > I like 'em, I'll come back and pay for 'em."
>> > > > >
>> > > > > How do you feel about it? Do you think this
guy's really gonna
>come
>> > > back
>> > > > > and pay for the cookies?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > It's *stealing* and "Thou shalt not steal." Be
glad you don't
>live
>> in
>> > > > Iran
>> > > > > or Egypt: If you were caught downloading and
sharing copyrighted
>> files
>> > > > from
>> > > > > the 'net, your hand would be cut off.
>> > > > > --
>> > > > > ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
>> > > > > MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE)
>> > > > > AH-VSOP
>> > > > >
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > I use Kazaa to download almost anything and
everything I
>> > > > > > can. I know this is stealing but it doesn't
feel so
>> > > > > > wrong as stealing. My main question is: I
download all
>> > > > > > sorts of crap, but it is all stuff that I
wouldn't have
>> > > > > > purchased anyway. The stuff that I know is
high quality,
>> > > > > > and worth my money, then I go out and buy.
Is what I'm
>> > > > > > doing wrong, because most of my free time is
spent
>> > > > > > watching, using, or listening to something
that i did not
>> > > > > > pay for! There are cetain CDs I really like
so I go and
>> > > > > > buy them. The same applies with movies, as
well as
>> > > > > > software, but I'd like to here other people's
opinions on
>> > > > > > the subject?. Do you do it? How do you
feel about it?
>> > > > > > etc.
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>.
>

sgopus

February 11th 04, 07:01 PM

saying it's hard to deal with human race is not a reason=20
to steal, it's an excuse.
Starving to death under an oppressive society is reason to=20
revolt and survive. bad manners is just that, deal with it.
copying my own music is not illegal for my own use.

>-----Original Message-----
>sgopus you say you complain but did it ever get you=20
anywhere with either
>software manufacturers or hardware vendors. Some do=20
actually try and help
>sort out problems but most don't even bother to reply to=20
emails when you
>have problems. I fell victim to the intel rdram to pc133=20
converter issue a
>few years ago when I bought an asus motherboard that had=20
the problem built
>in and asus just didn't want to know, nor did the company=20
I bought the board
>from. The software problems I have had have been too many=20
to list and I was
>a physicist so I understand the complexity of computers=20
but that doesn't
>release programmers of their responsibility to the end=20
user even though they
>all write eulas that try to legaly remove them from=20
responsibility by saying
>that if you install the software and it breaks your=20
computer you have no
>legal come back to them.
>
>Carey can you honestly say you have never broken any=20
copyright. As the
>original poster said people record cds either onto tapes=20
or nowadays onto
>thier own compilation cds, have you honestly never=20
recorded any music that
>you bought onto other material even for your own use. If=20
you have that is
>still breaking copyright law and legaly just as wrong as=20
downloading digital
>data. I find it very hard to believe that everyone here=20
reads and obeys to
>the letter every copyrighted property that they own. That=20
includes not
>recording CDs that they already own. I make my own=20
compilation CDs of music
>that I own but here in UK according to copyright law that=20
is illegal. I
>don't have a morel problem with it because I own the disc=20
but it is still
>illegal to reproduce it for my own use, how can that be=20
right. The original
>poster makes some valid points about the right to=20
inststal software on more
>than one computer. I've never used kazza but I have used=20
other file sharing
>programs usually to download old songs from my youth. I=20
have about 20 mp3s
>so I must be a thief as well but at least I will stand up=20
and admit it, will
>you? As I said I find it very hard to believe that you or=20
any other person
>here has never broken copyright law it's almost=20
imposible. Remember even
>recording music you own is still illegal.
>
>
>"sgopus" > wrote in=20
message
...
>See how easy it is, to create (various) reasons to steal,
>so you don't have the money, excuse me (do without)!
>go get a second job, get a deeper hold on your beliefs in
>GOD and the difference between right and wrong.
>
>Don't make excuses, just because it's easy doesn't mean
>it's right. I'm ordinary, I don't use Kazaa, I'm not
>rich, I do without..till I can save up the bucks.. yep
>I've bought some stinkers, and yep I've complained...
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>It's very easy to say that downloading full final
>software from the internet
>>is stealing and as the law stands it is. But take a look
>at it from the
>>ordinary persons perspective. I have gone out and bought
>retail software
>>that was no better than beta software. I have bought
>games only to find that
>>they are flawed and won't run properly. For example I
>bought Unreal Return
>>to NaPali the original Unreal add on expansion pack. It
>had so many problems
>>that it wouldn't run and I found everyone who bought it
>had the same
>>problem. On contacting the publishers of the game they
>just gave the same
>>non committal reply and wouldn't be drawn into a
>discussion about the
>>problems. It took them over a year to put out a patch
>that fixed the
>>problem.
>>
>>I don't make a lot of money and was a mature student for
>a while so you can
>>imagine money was tight. I came across warez sites by
>accident a few years
>>ago and downloaded software thinking it was shareware. I
>soon learned the
>>truth. I could give you more examples of badly programmed
>software being
>>sold but the point is when software manufacturers put out
>damaged goods why
>>should I pay my hard earned money until I am sure it
>works. Fully functional
>>time limited shareware is great as it gives you a proper
>chance to check out
>>if the software both works correctly and also suites your
>own personal
>>needs. I download software via file sharing programs but
>I still go and buy
>>the software retail if I like it and use it. I just
>bought Unreal 2 The
>>Awakening from Amazon even though I got it from an ftp
>site before hand.
>>
>>I don't care if you want to call me a thief. What are
>software companies who
>>put out software that they know is not fully working.
>They put it out for
>>sale then put out patches to fix the errors. I am not
>talking about isolated
>>incidents or small companies, I'm talking about companies
>like Symantec,
>>they have just added product activation to their 2004
>products but it has
>>been shown to be flawed. A number of people bought Norton
>Antivirus legally
>>and activated it only to find that sometime later the
>program unactivated
>>itself and would not reactivate. At the time I read about
>the problem
>>Norton\Symantec were aware of the problem but did not
>have a fix so people
>>who had bought Norton Antivirus 2004 were left without
>any Antivirus
>>protection and as any one knows in this day and age you
>cannot comfortably
>>surf the internet or use email without adequate security.
>>
>>I also think it is unfair for people to say I can only
>run one version of a
>>program on one computer. I own two computers and if I
>want to install a
>>program on both why shouldn't I. If I have paid for it I
>should be able to
>>install on my own home computers without breaking dubious
>EULA's. I can
>>understand companies buying multiple licenses but home
>users should have
>>reasonable rights to use software as they see fit. As
>long as ridicules
>>EULA's exist people will break the law and download
>software. How many of
>>you who call us thieves have bought music CDs or vinyl
>albums and recorded
>>them either completely or made your own compilation
>cassette tapes or
>>nowadays CDs for use in your car, home or any place you
>wanted. Recording
>>music that you own is still illegal to this day as far as
>I know but I would
>>bet that most of you who shout thief at us for
>downloading copyrighted data
>>have broken copyright yourself in the past. I remember
>the same arguments
>>years ago when cassette tapes were added to radios. We
>all recorded music
>>off the radio and everyone said it would be the end of
>the music business
>>but was it, of course not. In fact the music business has
>ripped of the
>>public for too long. Just look how much they charge for
>music CDs when CDs
>>are so cheap to produce. If I buy a book and read it then
>give it to a
>>friend to read instead of telling him to go and buy it is
>that wrong. No, so
>>why should it be wrong for me to check out software
>properly and if I decide
>>to keep it and go out and buy it legally for my own use
>then I should be
>>allowed to install it on my own computers without having
>to activate it. I
>>will continue to bypass product activation as long as my
>conscience allows
>>it.
>>
>>
>>
>>"JAX" > wrote in message
...
>>> Was it Ripple? I have drank/drunk some of that too.
>>>
>>> JAX
>>>
>>> "Kelly" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> > Was messin' with him. He is a wine taster/tester.
>But yes, is my
>>> favorite.
>>> > What was it that Red Foxx drank on Sanford and Son?
>I forget.......
>>:o)
>>> >
>>> > --=20
>>> > All the Best,
>>> > Kelly
>>> >
>>> > MS-MVP Win98/XP
>>> > [AE-Windows=AE XP]
>>> >
>>> > Troubleshooting Windows XP
>>> > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com
>>> >
>>> > Utilities for Windows XP
>>> > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_u.htm#xp_util
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > "JAX" > wrote in message
>>> > ...
>>> > > "Kendall Jackson Chardonnay?"
>>> > >
>>> > > Is that anything like Muscatel?
>>> > >
>>> > > JAX
>>> > >
>>> > > "Kelly" > wrote in message
>>> > > ...
>>> > > > Whatcha think about: Kendall Jackson
>Chardonnay? Can I download
>>it?
>>> > > Just
>>> > > > kidding, but am serious on the question. :o)
>>> > > >
>>> > > > All the Best,
>>> > > > Kelly
>>> > > >
>>> > > > MS-MVP Win98/XP
>>> > > > [AE-Windows=AE XP]
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Troubleshooting Windows XP
>>> > > > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Utilities for Windows XP
>>> > > > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_u.htm#xp_util
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > "PA Bear" > wrote in message
>>> > > > ...
>>> > > > > Turn the tables for a minute: You're an author
>and have worked for
>>> > years
>>> > > > on
>>> > > > > a novel. Now it's been published. Someone
>walks into Barnes &
>>> Noble
>>> > > and
>>> > > > > shoplifts your book, depriving you of the
>income from the sale.
>>> This
>>> > > > guy's
>>> > > > > defense is, "I'll take a look at it and if I
>like the book I'll go
>>> out
>>> > > and
>>> > > > > buy it."
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > How do you feel about it? Do you think this
>guy would really go
>>out
>>> > and
>>> > > > buy
>>> > > > > the book after he's already got one in his hot
>little hands?
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > You're a great cook and devise a fabulous new
>recipe for chocolate
>>> > chip
>>> > > > > cookies. You patent/copyright the recipe and
>put it on the
>>market.
>>> > > > Someone
>>> > > > > walks into a store and shoplifts a package of
>your cookies,
>>saying,
>>> > > "Hey,
>>> > > > if
>>> > > > > I like 'em, I'll come back and pay for 'em."
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > How do you feel about it? Do you think this
>guy's really gonna
>>come
>>> > > back
>>> > > > > and pay for the cookies?
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > It's *stealing* and "Thou shalt not steal." Be
>glad you don't
>>live
>>> in
>>> > > > Iran
>>> > > > > or Egypt: If you were caught downloading and
>sharing copyrighted
>>> files
>>> > > > from
>>> > > > > the 'net, your hand would be cut off.
>>> > > > > --=20
>>> > > > > ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
>>> > > > > MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE)
>>> > > > > AH-VSOP
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > wrote:
>>> > > > > > I use Kazaa to download almost anything and
>everything I
>>> > > > > > can. I know this is stealing but it doesn't
>feel so
>>> > > > > > wrong as stealing. My main question is: I
>download all
>>> > > > > > sorts of crap, but it is all stuff that I
>wouldn't have
>>> > > > > > purchased anyway. The stuff that I know is
>high quality,
>>> > > > > > and worth my money, then I go out and buy.
>Is what I'm
>>> > > > > > doing wrong, because most of my free time is
>spent
>>> > > > > > watching, using, or listening to something
>that i did not
>>> > > > > > pay for! There are cetain CDs I really like
>so I go and
>>> > > > > > buy them. The same applies with movies, as
>well as
>>> > > > > > software, but I'd like to here other people's
>opinions on
>>> > > > > > the subject?. Do you do it? How do you
>feel about it?
>>> > > > > > etc.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>.
>>
>
>
>.
>