NTFS File Size Help

[Mike C]

I have 2 hard drives - both are using NTFS, HOWEVER, the
HD with my operating system (drive C) is using NTFS with
an allocation unit size of 512 bytes and my other HD
(Drive D) is using NTFS with an allocation unit size of
4096 bytes.

What is the difference in allocation unit sizes (besides
the obvious size) in relation to performance and/or
stability? Should I increase the size of drive C to
4096? And if I do, will I lose everything on that HD?

So many questions... so little time...

[Nicholas]

For best disk performance, a 4kb NTSF cluster size is ideal. A 512-byte =
cluster size
usually results from a conversion from FAT32 and is considered less than =
ideal.
In order to change the cluster size, you'll have to start from scratch =
by reformatting
your drive (using NTFS as your file system) and reinstalling Windows XP.

NTFS Preinstallation and Windows XP
http://www.microsoft.com/hwdev/tech/storage/ntfs-preinstall.asp

Benchmarking on Windows XP
http://www.microsoft.com/hwdev/platform/performance/benchmark.asp=20


CONVERTING FAT32 to NTFS
in Windows XP
(by Alex Nichol, MS-MVP)
http://www.aumha.org/a/ntfscvt.htm


The Windows XP CD is bootable and contains all the tools necessary
to partition and format your drive. Follow this procedure and allow
Windows XP to partition and format your drive:

1. Open your BIOS and set your CD Drive as the first bootable device.
2. Insert your Windows XP CD in the CD Drive and reboot your =
computer.
3. You'll see a message to boot to the CD....follow the instructions.
4. The setup menu will appear and you should elect to delete the =
existing
Windows partitions, then create a new partition, then format the =
primary
partition (preferably NTFS) and proceed to install Windows XP.

5. Windows XP Clean Install:=20
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_sg_clean.asp

6. Accessing Motherboard BIOS
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/bios_manufacturer.htm

--=20
Nicholas

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=


"Mike C" > multi-posted message:
...=20

| I have 2 hard drives - both are using NTFS, HOWEVER, the=20
| HD with my operating system (drive C) is using NTFS with=20
| an allocation unit size of 512 bytes and my other HD=20
| (Drive D) is using NTFS with an allocation unit size of=20
| 4096 bytes.
|=20
| What is the difference in allocation unit sizes (besides=20
| the obvious size) in relation to performance and/or=20
| stability? Should I increase the size of drive C to=20
| 4096? And if I do, will I lose everything on that HD?
|=20
| So many questions... so little time...

[Ken Blake]

In , Mike C wrote:

> I have 2 hard drives - both are using NTFS, HOWEVER, the
> HD with my operating system (drive C) is using NTFS with
> an allocation unit size of 512 bytes and my other HD
> (Drive D) is using NTFS with an allocation unit size of
> 4096 bytes.


Presumably because you got NTFS on the C: drive by converting
from FAT32 and got it on the D: drive because you formatted it
that way. Those are the usual results.


> What is the difference in allocation unit sizes (besides
> the obvious size) in relation to performance and/or
> stability?


As regards stability, the difference is zero. As regards
performance, you should get slightly better performance from the
4K clusters. But unless you're noticing such a difference, I
would just leave it as is.


--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup.

[R. C. White]

Hi, Mike.

I don't think there's an easy way to increase the cluster size. Basically,
you'd have to backup, reformat, restore. MAYBE it would work to have
Partition Magic convert NTFS to FAT32 (Nothing Microsoft sells would do
this.) and then use WinXP's Convert.exe to convert it back to NTFS, but I
haven't tried it.

In brief, the 512-byte clusters are more efficient in using disk space, but
the 4 KB clusters allow files to be read and written faster. On average,
each file wastes half of its final cluster, whether it is a small file that
takes part of a single cluster or a large file that takes many clusters plus
just a part of a final cluster. So, 1,000 files of random sizes would waste
about 256 KB if you are using 512-byte clusters, or 2 MB with 4 KB clusters.
On the other hand, reading all but the smallest files would require the OS
to read 8 times as many of the smaller clusters, taking more overhead time.
So, it's a trade-off between disk space efficiency and performance.

Except when converting from FAT32, NTFS always defaults to 4 KB, although
you can change it when formatting in Disk Management. Convert.exe in Win2K
almost always resulted in 512-byte clusters. In WinXP, Convert.exe has been
improved and usually - but not always - produces 4 KB clusters.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP

"Mike C" > wrote in message
...
> I have 2 hard drives - both are using NTFS, HOWEVER, the
> HD with my operating system (drive C) is using NTFS with
> an allocation unit size of 512 bytes and my other HD
> (Drive D) is using NTFS with an allocation unit size of
> 4096 bytes.
>
> What is the difference in allocation unit sizes (besides
> the obvious size) in relation to performance and/or
> stability? Should I increase the size of drive C to
> 4096? And if I do, will I lose everything on that HD?
>
> So many questions... so little time...

[Fred]

Partition Magic 8.0 will resize cluster size on NTFS drives. I have
used it to change the cluster size from 512 bytes to 4Kb on a hard
drive that was converted to NTFS from FAT32.

On Sat, 10 May 2003 12:34:40 -0500, "Nicholas"
> wrote:

>For best disk performance, a 4kb NTSF cluster size is ideal. A 512-byte cluster size
>usually results from a conversion from FAT32 and is considered less than ideal.
>In order to change the cluster size, you'll have to start from scratch by reformatting
>your drive (using NTFS as your file system) and reinstalling Windows XP.
>
>NTFS Preinstallation and Windows XP
>http://www.microsoft.com/hwdev/tech/storage/ntfs-preinstall.asp
>
>Benchmarking on Windows XP
>http://www.microsoft.com/hwdev/platform/performance/benchmark.asp
>
>
>CONVERTING FAT32 to NTFS
> in Windows XP
> (by Alex Nichol, MS-MVP)
>http://www.aumha.org/a/ntfscvt.htm
>
>
>The Windows XP CD is bootable and contains all the tools necessary
>to partition and format your drive. Follow this procedure and allow
>Windows XP to partition and format your drive:
>
>1. Open your BIOS and set your CD Drive as the first bootable device.
>2. Insert your Windows XP CD in the CD Drive and reboot your computer.
>3. You'll see a message to boot to the CD....follow the instructions.
>4. The setup menu will appear and you should elect to delete the existing
> Windows partitions, then create a new partition, then format the primary
> partition (preferably NTFS) and proceed to install Windows XP.
>
>5. Windows XP Clean Install:
> http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_sg_clean.asp
>
>6. Accessing Motherboard BIOS
> http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/bios_manufacturer.htm

[Fred]

Partition Magic '8.0" now resizes clusters on NTFS drives (PM 7.0
only resized clusters on FAT drives). Last week I used PM 8.0 to
resize clusters from 512 bytes to 4kb on a drive that I converted from
FAT32 to NTFS

On Sat, 10 May 2003 18:44:56 -0500, "R. C. White" >
wrote:

>Hi, Mike.
>
>I don't think there's an easy way to increase the cluster size. Basically,
>you'd have to backup, reformat, restore. MAYBE it would work to have
>Partition Magic convert NTFS to FAT32 (Nothing Microsoft sells would do
>this.) and then use WinXP's Convert.exe to convert it back to NTFS, but I
>haven't tried it.
>
>In brief, the 512-byte clusters are more efficient in using disk space, but
>the 4 KB clusters allow files to be read and written faster. On average,
>each file wastes half of its final cluster, whether it is a small file that
>takes part of a single cluster or a large file that takes many clusters plus
>just a part of a final cluster. So, 1,000 files of random sizes would waste
>about 256 KB if you are using 512-byte clusters, or 2 MB with 4 KB clusters.
>On the other hand, reading all but the smallest files would require the OS
>to read 8 times as many of the smaller clusters, taking more overhead time.
>So, it's a trade-off between disk space efficiency and performance.
>
>Except when converting from FAT32, NTFS always defaults to 4 KB, although
>you can change it when formatting in Disk Management. Convert.exe in Win2K
>almost always resulted in 512-byte clusters. In WinXP, Convert.exe has been
>improved and usually - but not always - produces 4 KB clusters.
>
>RC

[R. C. White]

Thanks for the tip, Fred. I didn't know that. And, as Martha says, "It's a
good thing!" ;<)

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP

"Fred" > wrote in message
...
>
> Partition Magic '8.0" now resizes clusters on NTFS drives (PM 7.0
> only resized clusters on FAT drives). Last week I used PM 8.0 to
> resize clusters from 512 bytes to 4kb on a drive that I converted from
> FAT32 to NTFS
>
> On Sat, 10 May 2003 18:44:56 -0500, "R. C. White" >
> wrote:
>
> >Hi, Mike.
> >
> >I don't think there's an easy way to increase the cluster size.
Basically,
> >you'd have to backup, reformat, restore. MAYBE it would work to have
> >Partition Magic convert NTFS to FAT32 (Nothing Microsoft sells would do
> >this.) and then use WinXP's Convert.exe to convert it back to NTFS, but I
> >haven't tried it.
> >
> >In brief, the 512-byte clusters are more efficient in using disk space,
but
> >the 4 KB clusters allow files to be read and written faster. On average,
> >each file wastes half of its final cluster, whether it is a small file
that
> >takes part of a single cluster or a large file that takes many clusters
plus
> >just a part of a final cluster. So, 1,000 files of random sizes would
waste
> >about 256 KB if you are using 512-byte clusters, or 2 MB with 4 KB
clusters.
> >On the other hand, reading all but the smallest files would require the
OS
> >to read 8 times as many of the smaller clusters, taking more overhead
time.
> >So, it's a trade-off between disk space efficiency and performance.
> >
> >Except when converting from FAT32, NTFS always defaults to 4 KB, although
> >you can change it when formatting in Disk Management. Convert.exe in
Win2K
> >almost always resulted in 512-byte clusters. In WinXP, Convert.exe has
been
> >improved and usually - but not always - produces 4 KB clusters.
> >
> >RC

[Alex Nichol]

Mike C wrote:

>I have 2 hard drives - both are using NTFS, HOWEVER, the
>HD with my operating system (drive C) is using NTFS with
>an allocation unit size of 512 bytes and my other HD
>(Drive D) is using NTFS with an allocation unit size of
>4096 bytes.
>
>What is the difference in allocation unit sizes (besides
>the obvious size) in relation to performance and/or
>stability? Should I increase the size of drive C to
>4096? And if I do, will I lose everything on that HD?

See response in the general group. And please do *not* spray the same
question into several groups and waste peoples time responding/. If you
feel it needs to be in more than one, cross post the same thing
simultaneously into a reasonable number


--
Alex Nichol MS MVP (Windows - File Systems)
Bournemouth, U.K.