View Full Version : XP Activation
mbox204
February 27th 04, 05:11 AM
If I get this right, for every PC I have in my household, I have to get a
retail box of XP Professional to load onto each one of the 3 boxes, meaning
spend full price money on 3 retail boxes of XP Pro (I don't do the upgrade
thing, only clean installs). Is there not some cheaper way of getting
multiple installs off one CD, aside from doing something illegal, such as
load Win 2000 on each PC. I am upgrading from WIN 98, yes that is right,
Win 98 in the year 2004.
NoWaySpammers
February 27th 04, 05:13 AM
Isn't that illegal?
"Microsoft" > wrote in message
...
> you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
internet. there out there.
JRF
February 27th 04, 05:20 AM
I have a hard time justifying 600+ dollars for 3 new retail boxes of Windows
XP, there has to be a better way. Has anyone actually taken a retail XP CD
and attempted to perform 3 installs on three seperate machines. What
happens? Are the product keys that unique to each CD and each machine?
"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
> Isn't that illegal?
>
>
> "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> ...
> > you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> internet. there out there.
>
>
JRF
February 27th 04, 05:22 AM
I have a hard time justifying 600+ dollars for 3 new retail boxes of Windows
XP, there has to be a better way. Has anyone actually taken a retail XP CD
and attempted to perform 3 installs on three seperate machines. What
happens? Are the product keys that unique to each CD and each machine?
"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
> Isn't that illegal?
>
>
> "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> ...
> > you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> internet. there out there.
>
>
Frank Jelenko
February 27th 04, 05:26 AM
The second machine you try to activate will tell you it's been activated too
many times. => Call MS for activation number. They will ask you what's
going on. If you tell them you are installing on a second pc [without
having removed the os from the first pc], they will deny a product
activation number.
There a couple alternatives that are less expensive than multiple full
versions.
First, Upgrade versions allow you to do clean installs, you just need the
qualifying CD for the upgrade. Ie., for Home XP, you'll need a Win 98, Win
ME install CD. For XP Pro, same as Home XP, but Win 2000 also qualifies for
upgrade.
For Home XP, there are license packs [just another product id and COA], but
these are ~ $80 each.
For Home and Pro, you can get OEM versions - which are MUCH less than the
retail versions. But! They come with NO support from MS and you can only
install them on one PC. Once it's installed on a PC, it's not supposed to
be installed on any other PC. Even if you uninstall it from the first PC or
the first PC dies!
For the OEM versions of XP, there are COA's with product id's available for
~ $90. The same limitations apply as for OEM version.
If you build your own PC's, as the 'OEM' you have some flexibility in what
you can do/upgrade on your PC.
HTH
"JRF" > wrote in message
...
> I have a hard time justifying 600+ dollars for 3 new retail boxes of
Windows
> XP, there has to be a better way. Has anyone actually taken a retail XP
CD
> and attempted to perform 3 installs on three seperate machines. What
> happens? Are the product keys that unique to each CD and each machine?
>
>
> "NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Isn't that illegal?
> >
> >
> > "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> > internet. there out there.
> >
> >
>
>
Frank Jelenko
February 27th 04, 05:26 AM
Of course it is.
"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
> Isn't that illegal?
>
>
> "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> ...
> > you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> internet. there out there.
>
>
February 27th 04, 05:27 AM
Key generators are illegal... you can call microsoft and
purchase extra licences u can negotiate a deal.....
>-----Original Message-----
>I have a hard time justifying 600+ dollars for 3 new
retail boxes of Windows
>XP, there has to be a better way. Has anyone actually
taken a retail XP CD
>and attempted to perform 3 installs on three seperate
machines. What
>happens? Are the product keys that unique to each CD and
each machine?
>
>
>"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
>> Isn't that illegal?
>>
>>
>> "Microsoft" > wrote
in message
>> news:A51A8EC0-FB73-4C12-A8B9-
...
>> > you can get a product key generator. you just have to
look on the
>> internet. there out there.
>>
>>
>
>
>.
>
NoWaySpammers
February 27th 04, 05:33 AM
Isn't that illegal?
"Microsoft" > wrote in message
...
> you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
internet. there out there.
JRF
February 27th 04, 05:35 AM
I have a hard time justifying 600+ dollars for 3 new retail boxes of Windows
XP, there has to be a better way. Has anyone actually taken a retail XP CD
and attempted to perform 3 installs on three seperate machines. What
happens? Are the product keys that unique to each CD and each machine?
"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
> Isn't that illegal?
>
>
> "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> ...
> > you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> internet. there out there.
>
>
JRF
February 27th 04, 05:37 AM
I have a hard time justifying 600+ dollars for 3 new retail boxes of Windows
XP, there has to be a better way. Has anyone actually taken a retail XP CD
and attempted to perform 3 installs on three seperate machines. What
happens? Are the product keys that unique to each CD and each machine?
"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
> Isn't that illegal?
>
>
> "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> ...
> > you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> internet. there out there.
>
>
NoWaySpammers
February 27th 04, 05:40 AM
Isn't that illegal?
"Microsoft" > wrote in message
...
> you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
internet. there out there.
JRF
February 27th 04, 05:49 AM
I have a hard time justifying 600+ dollars for 3 new retail boxes of Windows
XP, there has to be a better way. Has anyone actually taken a retail XP CD
and attempted to perform 3 installs on three seperate machines. What
happens? Are the product keys that unique to each CD and each machine?
"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
> Isn't that illegal?
>
>
> "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> ...
> > you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> internet. there out there.
>
>
JRF
February 27th 04, 05:54 AM
I have a hard time justifying 600+ dollars for 3 new retail boxes of Windows
XP, there has to be a better way. Has anyone actually taken a retail XP CD
and attempted to perform 3 installs on three seperate machines. What
happens? Are the product keys that unique to each CD and each machine?
"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
> Isn't that illegal?
>
>
> "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> ...
> > you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> internet. there out there.
>
>
Frank Jelenko
February 27th 04, 05:55 AM
The second machine you try to activate will tell you it's been activated too
many times. => Call MS for activation number. They will ask you what's
going on. If you tell them you are installing on a second pc [without
having removed the os from the first pc], they will deny a product
activation number.
There a couple alternatives that are less expensive than multiple full
versions.
First, Upgrade versions allow you to do clean installs, you just need the
qualifying CD for the upgrade. Ie., for Home XP, you'll need a Win 98, Win
ME install CD. For XP Pro, same as Home XP, but Win 2000 also qualifies for
upgrade.
For Home XP, there are license packs [just another product id and COA], but
these are ~ $80 each.
For Home and Pro, you can get OEM versions - which are MUCH less than the
retail versions. But! They come with NO support from MS and you can only
install them on one PC. Once it's installed on a PC, it's not supposed to
be installed on any other PC. Even if you uninstall it from the first PC or
the first PC dies!
For the OEM versions of XP, there are COA's with product id's available for
~ $90. The same limitations apply as for OEM version.
If you build your own PC's, as the 'OEM' you have some flexibility in what
you can do/upgrade on your PC.
HTH
"JRF" > wrote in message
...
> I have a hard time justifying 600+ dollars for 3 new retail boxes of
Windows
> XP, there has to be a better way. Has anyone actually taken a retail XP
CD
> and attempted to perform 3 installs on three seperate machines. What
> happens? Are the product keys that unique to each CD and each machine?
>
>
> "NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Isn't that illegal?
> >
> >
> > "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> > internet. there out there.
> >
> >
>
>
Frank Jelenko
February 27th 04, 05:56 AM
Of course it is.
"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
> Isn't that illegal?
>
>
> "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> ...
> > you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> internet. there out there.
>
>
February 27th 04, 05:56 AM
Key generators are illegal... you can call microsoft and
purchase extra licences u can negotiate a deal.....
>-----Original Message-----
>I have a hard time justifying 600+ dollars for 3 new
retail boxes of Windows
>XP, there has to be a better way. Has anyone actually
taken a retail XP CD
>and attempted to perform 3 installs on three seperate
machines. What
>happens? Are the product keys that unique to each CD and
each machine?
>
>
>"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
>> Isn't that illegal?
>>
>>
>> "Microsoft" > wrote
in message
>> news:A51A8EC0-FB73-4C12-A8B9-
...
>> > you can get a product key generator. you just have to
look on the
>> internet. there out there.
>>
>>
>
>
>.
>
Frank Jelenko
February 27th 04, 05:56 AM
The second machine you try to activate will tell you it's been activated too
many times. => Call MS for activation number. They will ask you what's
going on. If you tell them you are installing on a second pc [without
having removed the os from the first pc], they will deny a product
activation number.
There a couple alternatives that are less expensive than multiple full
versions.
First, Upgrade versions allow you to do clean installs, you just need the
qualifying CD for the upgrade. Ie., for Home XP, you'll need a Win 98, Win
ME install CD. For XP Pro, same as Home XP, but Win 2000 also qualifies for
upgrade.
For Home XP, there are license packs [just another product id and COA], but
these are ~ $80 each.
For Home and Pro, you can get OEM versions - which are MUCH less than the
retail versions. But! They come with NO support from MS and you can only
install them on one PC. Once it's installed on a PC, it's not supposed to
be installed on any other PC. Even if you uninstall it from the first PC or
the first PC dies!
For the OEM versions of XP, there are COA's with product id's available for
~ $90. The same limitations apply as for OEM version.
If you build your own PC's, as the 'OEM' you have some flexibility in what
you can do/upgrade on your PC.
HTH
"JRF" > wrote in message
...
> I have a hard time justifying 600+ dollars for 3 new retail boxes of
Windows
> XP, there has to be a better way. Has anyone actually taken a retail XP
CD
> and attempted to perform 3 installs on three seperate machines. What
> happens? Are the product keys that unique to each CD and each machine?
>
>
> "NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Isn't that illegal?
> >
> >
> > "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> > internet. there out there.
> >
> >
>
>
Frank Jelenko
February 27th 04, 05:57 AM
Of course it is.
"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
> Isn't that illegal?
>
>
> "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> ...
> > you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> internet. there out there.
>
>
February 27th 04, 05:57 AM
Key generators are illegal... you can call microsoft and
purchase extra licences u can negotiate a deal.....
>-----Original Message-----
>I have a hard time justifying 600+ dollars for 3 new
retail boxes of Windows
>XP, there has to be a better way. Has anyone actually
taken a retail XP CD
>and attempted to perform 3 installs on three seperate
machines. What
>happens? Are the product keys that unique to each CD and
each machine?
>
>
>"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
>> Isn't that illegal?
>>
>>
>> "Microsoft" > wrote
in message
>> news:A51A8EC0-FB73-4C12-A8B9-
...
>> > you can get a product key generator. you just have to
look on the
>> internet. there out there.
>>
>>
>
>
>.
>
Frank Jelenko
February 27th 04, 06:01 AM
The second machine you try to activate will tell you it's been activated too
many times. => Call MS for activation number. They will ask you what's
going on. If you tell them you are installing on a second pc [without
having removed the os from the first pc], they will deny a product
activation number.
There a couple alternatives that are less expensive than multiple full
versions.
First, Upgrade versions allow you to do clean installs, you just need the
qualifying CD for the upgrade. Ie., for Home XP, you'll need a Win 98, Win
ME install CD. For XP Pro, same as Home XP, but Win 2000 also qualifies for
upgrade.
For Home XP, there are license packs [just another product id and COA], but
these are ~ $80 each.
For Home and Pro, you can get OEM versions - which are MUCH less than the
retail versions. But! They come with NO support from MS and you can only
install them on one PC. Once it's installed on a PC, it's not supposed to
be installed on any other PC. Even if you uninstall it from the first PC or
the first PC dies!
For the OEM versions of XP, there are COA's with product id's available for
~ $90. The same limitations apply as for OEM version.
If you build your own PC's, as the 'OEM' you have some flexibility in what
you can do/upgrade on your PC.
HTH
"JRF" > wrote in message
...
> I have a hard time justifying 600+ dollars for 3 new retail boxes of
Windows
> XP, there has to be a better way. Has anyone actually taken a retail XP
CD
> and attempted to perform 3 installs on three seperate machines. What
> happens? Are the product keys that unique to each CD and each machine?
>
>
> "NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Isn't that illegal?
> >
> >
> > "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> > internet. there out there.
> >
> >
>
>
Frank Jelenko
February 27th 04, 06:01 AM
Of course it is.
"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
> Isn't that illegal?
>
>
> "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> ...
> > you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> internet. there out there.
>
>
February 27th 04, 06:01 AM
Key generators are illegal... you can call microsoft and
purchase extra licences u can negotiate a deal.....
>-----Original Message-----
>I have a hard time justifying 600+ dollars for 3 new
retail boxes of Windows
>XP, there has to be a better way. Has anyone actually
taken a retail XP CD
>and attempted to perform 3 installs on three seperate
machines. What
>happens? Are the product keys that unique to each CD and
each machine?
>
>
>"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
>> Isn't that illegal?
>>
>>
>> "Microsoft" > wrote
in message
>> news:A51A8EC0-FB73-4C12-A8B9-
...
>> > you can get a product key generator. you just have to
look on the
>> internet. there out there.
>>
>>
>
>
>.
>
bill gates
February 27th 04, 06:02 AM
If you don't come right out and tell me I really have no way of knowing how
many boxes you've installed xp on.
anonymous@public.microsoft.com
February 27th 04, 06:04 AM
This newsgroup has had a real rash of retards lately. If your going to
install xp on more than one machine you don't go and blab to everyone. You
asked the question,so you already know the answer. You just want someone to
say it's ok. If your going to rob a bank, do you go to the police station
and ask if it's legal? Well, maybe I shouldn't be asking that question.
bill gates
February 27th 04, 06:04 AM
If you don't come right out and tell me I really have no way of knowing how
many boxes you've installed xp on.
anonymous@public.microsoft.com
February 27th 04, 06:05 AM
This newsgroup has had a real rash of retards lately. If your going to
install xp on more than one machine you don't go and blab to everyone. You
asked the question,so you already know the answer. You just want someone to
say it's ok. If your going to rob a bank, do you go to the police station
and ask if it's legal? Well, maybe I shouldn't be asking that question.
Frank Jelenko
February 27th 04, 06:05 AM
The second machine you try to activate will tell you it's been activated too
many times. => Call MS for activation number. They will ask you what's
going on. If you tell them you are installing on a second pc [without
having removed the os from the first pc], they will deny a product
activation number.
There a couple alternatives that are less expensive than multiple full
versions.
First, Upgrade versions allow you to do clean installs, you just need the
qualifying CD for the upgrade. Ie., for Home XP, you'll need a Win 98, Win
ME install CD. For XP Pro, same as Home XP, but Win 2000 also qualifies for
upgrade.
For Home XP, there are license packs [just another product id and COA], but
these are ~ $80 each.
For Home and Pro, you can get OEM versions - which are MUCH less than the
retail versions. But! They come with NO support from MS and you can only
install them on one PC. Once it's installed on a PC, it's not supposed to
be installed on any other PC. Even if you uninstall it from the first PC or
the first PC dies!
For the OEM versions of XP, there are COA's with product id's available for
~ $90. The same limitations apply as for OEM version.
If you build your own PC's, as the 'OEM' you have some flexibility in what
you can do/upgrade on your PC.
HTH
"JRF" > wrote in message
...
> I have a hard time justifying 600+ dollars for 3 new retail boxes of
Windows
> XP, there has to be a better way. Has anyone actually taken a retail XP
CD
> and attempted to perform 3 installs on three seperate machines. What
> happens? Are the product keys that unique to each CD and each machine?
>
>
> "NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Isn't that illegal?
> >
> >
> > "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> > internet. there out there.
> >
> >
>
>
bill gates
February 27th 04, 06:05 AM
If you don't come right out and tell me I really have no way of knowing how
many boxes you've installed xp on.
Frank Jelenko
February 27th 04, 06:06 AM
Of course it is.
"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
> Isn't that illegal?
>
>
> "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> ...
> > you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> internet. there out there.
>
>
February 27th 04, 06:07 AM
Key generators are illegal... you can call microsoft and
purchase extra licences u can negotiate a deal.....
>-----Original Message-----
>I have a hard time justifying 600+ dollars for 3 new
retail boxes of Windows
>XP, there has to be a better way. Has anyone actually
taken a retail XP CD
>and attempted to perform 3 installs on three seperate
machines. What
>happens? Are the product keys that unique to each CD and
each machine?
>
>
>"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
>> Isn't that illegal?
>>
>>
>> "Microsoft" > wrote
in message
>> news:A51A8EC0-FB73-4C12-A8B9-
...
>> > you can get a product key generator. you just have to
look on the
>> internet. there out there.
>>
>>
>
>
>.
>
anonymous@public.microsoft.com
February 27th 04, 06:07 AM
This newsgroup has had a real rash of retards lately. If your going to
install xp on more than one machine you don't go and blab to everyone. You
asked the question,so you already know the answer. You just want someone to
say it's ok. If your going to rob a bank, do you go to the police station
and ask if it's legal? Well, maybe I shouldn't be asking that question.
JRF
February 27th 04, 06:08 AM
Activation is a little confusing and though I understood the question of the
poster, I don't think the person was implying an illegal act. I would
suppose the best thing to do would be install on all three machines at once,
don't activate, then activate all three at the same time over the internet,
all at the same or close to moment.
" > wrote in message
...
> This newsgroup has had a real rash of retards lately. If your going to
> install xp on more than one machine you don't go and blab to everyone. You
> asked the question,so you already know the answer. You just want someone
to
> say it's ok. If your going to rob a bank, do you go to the police station
> and ask if it's legal? Well, maybe I shouldn't be asking that question.
>
>
JRF
February 27th 04, 06:09 AM
Activation is a little confusing and though I understood the question of the
poster, I don't think the person was implying an illegal act. I would
suppose the best thing to do would be install on all three machines at once,
don't activate, then activate all three at the same time over the internet,
all at the same or close to moment.
" > wrote in message
...
> This newsgroup has had a real rash of retards lately. If your going to
> install xp on more than one machine you don't go and blab to everyone. You
> asked the question,so you already know the answer. You just want someone
to
> say it's ok. If your going to rob a bank, do you go to the police station
> and ask if it's legal? Well, maybe I shouldn't be asking that question.
>
>
Frank Jelenko
February 27th 04, 06:10 AM
The second machine you try to activate will tell you it's been activated too
many times. => Call MS for activation number. They will ask you what's
going on. If you tell them you are installing on a second pc [without
having removed the os from the first pc], they will deny a product
activation number.
There a couple alternatives that are less expensive than multiple full
versions.
First, Upgrade versions allow you to do clean installs, you just need the
qualifying CD for the upgrade. Ie., for Home XP, you'll need a Win 98, Win
ME install CD. For XP Pro, same as Home XP, but Win 2000 also qualifies for
upgrade.
For Home XP, there are license packs [just another product id and COA], but
these are ~ $80 each.
For Home and Pro, you can get OEM versions - which are MUCH less than the
retail versions. But! They come with NO support from MS and you can only
install them on one PC. Once it's installed on a PC, it's not supposed to
be installed on any other PC. Even if you uninstall it from the first PC or
the first PC dies!
For the OEM versions of XP, there are COA's with product id's available for
~ $90. The same limitations apply as for OEM version.
If you build your own PC's, as the 'OEM' you have some flexibility in what
you can do/upgrade on your PC.
HTH
"JRF" > wrote in message
...
> I have a hard time justifying 600+ dollars for 3 new retail boxes of
Windows
> XP, there has to be a better way. Has anyone actually taken a retail XP
CD
> and attempted to perform 3 installs on three seperate machines. What
> happens? Are the product keys that unique to each CD and each machine?
>
>
> "NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Isn't that illegal?
> >
> >
> > "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> > internet. there out there.
> >
> >
>
>
JRF
February 27th 04, 06:10 AM
Activation is a little confusing and though I understood the question of the
poster, I don't think the person was implying an illegal act. I would
suppose the best thing to do would be install on all three machines at once,
don't activate, then activate all three at the same time over the internet,
all at the same or close to moment.
" > wrote in message
...
> This newsgroup has had a real rash of retards lately. If your going to
> install xp on more than one machine you don't go and blab to everyone. You
> asked the question,so you already know the answer. You just want someone
to
> say it's ok. If your going to rob a bank, do you go to the police station
> and ask if it's legal? Well, maybe I shouldn't be asking that question.
>
>
Frank Jelenko
February 27th 04, 06:11 AM
Of course it is.
"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
> Isn't that illegal?
>
>
> "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> ...
> > you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> internet. there out there.
>
>
February 27th 04, 06:12 AM
Key generators are illegal... you can call microsoft and
purchase extra licences u can negotiate a deal.....
>-----Original Message-----
>I have a hard time justifying 600+ dollars for 3 new
retail boxes of Windows
>XP, there has to be a better way. Has anyone actually
taken a retail XP CD
>and attempted to perform 3 installs on three seperate
machines. What
>happens? Are the product keys that unique to each CD and
each machine?
>
>
>"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
>> Isn't that illegal?
>>
>>
>> "Microsoft" > wrote
in message
>> news:A51A8EC0-FB73-4C12-A8B9-
...
>> > you can get a product key generator. you just have to
look on the
>> internet. there out there.
>>
>>
>
>
>.
>
bill gates
February 27th 04, 06:15 AM
If you don't come right out and tell me I really have no way of knowing how
many boxes you've installed xp on.
Tedd Riggs
February 27th 04, 06:16 AM
Yep sure is illegal.
--
Tedd Riggs
PDA Square Content Developer
www.pdasquare.com
Redmond, WA
"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
> Isn't that illegal?
>
>
> "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> ...
>> you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> internet. there out there.
>
>
Tedd Riggs
February 27th 04, 06:16 AM
If you company has anything to do with Microsoft at all, you can join the
MAPS program (Microsoft for Partners-Action Paks) and its like a mini MSDN
and for $200-$300 you get a copy of most all of the major Microsoft Software
(Yes Windows XP PRO, Windows Server 2003 Premium Edition, Office 2003 and
many more) and depending on the product, you get either 5 or 10 licenses for
each program. Would be far cheaper then buying three copies of XP. Hey I
upgraded from 98SE this year to XP Pro also on this PC.
http://members.microsoft.com/partner/default.aspx General Info
http://members.microsoft.com/partner/salesmarketing/partnermarket/actionpack/actionpackus.aspx
Price list and links to what you receive.
--
Tedd Riggs
PDA Square Content Developer
www.pdasquare.com
Redmond, WA
"mbox204" > wrote in message
...
> If I get this right, for every PC I have in my household, I have to get a
> retail box of XP Professional to load onto each one of the 3 boxes,
> meaning
> spend full price money on 3 retail boxes of XP Pro (I don't do the upgrade
> thing, only clean installs). Is there not some cheaper way of getting
> multiple installs off one CD, aside from doing something illegal, such as
> load Win 2000 on each PC. I am upgrading from WIN 98, yes that is right,
> Win 98 in the year 2004.
>
>
Tedd Riggs
February 27th 04, 06:16 AM
Yep sure is illegal.
--
Tedd Riggs
PDA Square Content Developer
www.pdasquare.com
Redmond, WA
"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
> Isn't that illegal?
>
>
> "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> ...
>> you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> internet. there out there.
>
>
anonymous@public.microsoft.com
February 27th 04, 06:16 AM
This newsgroup has had a real rash of retards lately. If your going to
install xp on more than one machine you don't go and blab to everyone. You
asked the question,so you already know the answer. You just want someone to
say it's ok. If your going to rob a bank, do you go to the police station
and ask if it's legal? Well, maybe I shouldn't be asking that question.
Tedd Riggs
February 27th 04, 06:17 AM
If you company has anything to do with Microsoft at all, you can join the
MAPS program (Microsoft for Partners-Action Paks) and its like a mini MSDN
and for $200-$300 you get a copy of most all of the major Microsoft Software
(Yes Windows XP PRO, Windows Server 2003 Premium Edition, Office 2003 and
many more) and depending on the product, you get either 5 or 10 licenses for
each program. Would be far cheaper then buying three copies of XP. Hey I
upgraded from 98SE this year to XP Pro also on this PC.
http://members.microsoft.com/partner/default.aspx General Info
http://members.microsoft.com/partner/salesmarketing/partnermarket/actionpack/actionpackus.aspx
Price list and links to what you receive.
--
Tedd Riggs
PDA Square Content Developer
www.pdasquare.com
Redmond, WA
"mbox204" > wrote in message
...
> If I get this right, for every PC I have in my household, I have to get a
> retail box of XP Professional to load onto each one of the 3 boxes,
> meaning
> spend full price money on 3 retail boxes of XP Pro (I don't do the upgrade
> thing, only clean installs). Is there not some cheaper way of getting
> multiple installs off one CD, aside from doing something illegal, such as
> load Win 2000 on each PC. I am upgrading from WIN 98, yes that is right,
> Win 98 in the year 2004.
>
>
Microsoft
February 27th 04, 06:17 AM
windows xp pro corp edition needs no activation use as many product keys as you want reinstall as many times as you want
JRF
February 27th 04, 06:19 AM
Activation is a little confusing and though I understood the question of the
poster, I don't think the person was implying an illegal act. I would
suppose the best thing to do would be install on all three machines at once,
don't activate, then activate all three at the same time over the internet,
all at the same or close to moment.
" > wrote in message
...
> This newsgroup has had a real rash of retards lately. If your going to
> install xp on more than one machine you don't go and blab to everyone. You
> asked the question,so you already know the answer. You just want someone
to
> say it's ok. If your going to rob a bank, do you go to the police station
> and ask if it's legal? Well, maybe I shouldn't be asking that question.
>
>
Microsoft
February 27th 04, 06:21 AM
windows xp pro corp edition needs no activation use as many product keys as you want reinstall as many times as you want
Frank Jelenko
February 27th 04, 06:23 AM
The second machine you try to activate will tell you it's been activated too
many times. => Call MS for activation number. They will ask you what's
going on. If you tell them you are installing on a second pc [without
having removed the os from the first pc], they will deny a product
activation number.
There a couple alternatives that are less expensive than multiple full
versions.
First, Upgrade versions allow you to do clean installs, you just need the
qualifying CD for the upgrade. Ie., for Home XP, you'll need a Win 98, Win
ME install CD. For XP Pro, same as Home XP, but Win 2000 also qualifies for
upgrade.
For Home XP, there are license packs [just another product id and COA], but
these are ~ $80 each.
For Home and Pro, you can get OEM versions - which are MUCH less than the
retail versions. But! They come with NO support from MS and you can only
install them on one PC. Once it's installed on a PC, it's not supposed to
be installed on any other PC. Even if you uninstall it from the first PC or
the first PC dies!
For the OEM versions of XP, there are COA's with product id's available for
~ $90. The same limitations apply as for OEM version.
If you build your own PC's, as the 'OEM' you have some flexibility in what
you can do/upgrade on your PC.
HTH
"JRF" > wrote in message
...
> I have a hard time justifying 600+ dollars for 3 new retail boxes of
Windows
> XP, there has to be a better way. Has anyone actually taken a retail XP
CD
> and attempted to perform 3 installs on three seperate machines. What
> happens? Are the product keys that unique to each CD and each machine?
>
>
> "NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Isn't that illegal?
> >
> >
> > "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> > internet. there out there.
> >
> >
>
>
Frank Jelenko
February 27th 04, 06:23 AM
Of course it is.
"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
> Isn't that illegal?
>
>
> "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> ...
> > you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> internet. there out there.
>
>
February 27th 04, 06:23 AM
Key generators are illegal... you can call microsoft and
purchase extra licences u can negotiate a deal.....
>-----Original Message-----
>I have a hard time justifying 600+ dollars for 3 new
retail boxes of Windows
>XP, there has to be a better way. Has anyone actually
taken a retail XP CD
>and attempted to perform 3 installs on three seperate
machines. What
>happens? Are the product keys that unique to each CD and
each machine?
>
>
>"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
>> Isn't that illegal?
>>
>>
>> "Microsoft" > wrote
in message
>> news:A51A8EC0-FB73-4C12-A8B9-
...
>> > you can get a product key generator. you just have to
look on the
>> internet. there out there.
>>
>>
>
>
>.
>
Tedd Riggs
February 27th 04, 06:24 AM
Yep sure is illegal.
--
Tedd Riggs
PDA Square Content Developer
www.pdasquare.com
Redmond, WA
"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
> Isn't that illegal?
>
>
> "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> ...
>> you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> internet. there out there.
>
>
Tedd Riggs
February 27th 04, 06:24 AM
If you company has anything to do with Microsoft at all, you can join the
MAPS program (Microsoft for Partners-Action Paks) and its like a mini MSDN
and for $200-$300 you get a copy of most all of the major Microsoft Software
(Yes Windows XP PRO, Windows Server 2003 Premium Edition, Office 2003 and
many more) and depending on the product, you get either 5 or 10 licenses for
each program. Would be far cheaper then buying three copies of XP. Hey I
upgraded from 98SE this year to XP Pro also on this PC.
http://members.microsoft.com/partner/default.aspx General Info
http://members.microsoft.com/partner/salesmarketing/partnermarket/actionpack/actionpackus.aspx
Price list and links to what you receive.
--
Tedd Riggs
PDA Square Content Developer
www.pdasquare.com
Redmond, WA
"mbox204" > wrote in message
...
> If I get this right, for every PC I have in my household, I have to get a
> retail box of XP Professional to load onto each one of the 3 boxes,
> meaning
> spend full price money on 3 retail boxes of XP Pro (I don't do the upgrade
> thing, only clean installs). Is there not some cheaper way of getting
> multiple installs off one CD, aside from doing something illegal, such as
> load Win 2000 on each PC. I am upgrading from WIN 98, yes that is right,
> Win 98 in the year 2004.
>
>
bill gates
February 27th 04, 06:26 AM
If you don't come right out and tell me I really have no way of knowing how
many boxes you've installed xp on.
anonymous@public.microsoft.com
February 27th 04, 06:26 AM
This newsgroup has had a real rash of retards lately. If your going to
install xp on more than one machine you don't go and blab to everyone. You
asked the question,so you already know the answer. You just want someone to
say it's ok. If your going to rob a bank, do you go to the police station
and ask if it's legal? Well, maybe I shouldn't be asking that question.
Tedd Riggs
February 27th 04, 06:27 AM
Yep sure is illegal.
--
Tedd Riggs
PDA Square Content Developer
www.pdasquare.com
Redmond, WA
"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
> Isn't that illegal?
>
>
> "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> ...
>> you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> internet. there out there.
>
>
Microsoft
February 27th 04, 06:27 AM
windows xp pro corp edition needs no activation use as many product keys as you want reinstall as many times as you want
JRF
February 27th 04, 06:28 AM
Activation is a little confusing and though I understood the question of the
poster, I don't think the person was implying an illegal act. I would
suppose the best thing to do would be install on all three machines at once,
don't activate, then activate all three at the same time over the internet,
all at the same or close to moment.
" > wrote in message
...
> This newsgroup has had a real rash of retards lately. If your going to
> install xp on more than one machine you don't go and blab to everyone. You
> asked the question,so you already know the answer. You just want someone
to
> say it's ok. If your going to rob a bank, do you go to the police station
> and ask if it's legal? Well, maybe I shouldn't be asking that question.
>
>
Tedd Riggs
February 27th 04, 06:28 AM
If you company has anything to do with Microsoft at all, you can join the
MAPS program (Microsoft for Partners-Action Paks) and its like a mini MSDN
and for $200-$300 you get a copy of most all of the major Microsoft Software
(Yes Windows XP PRO, Windows Server 2003 Premium Edition, Office 2003 and
many more) and depending on the product, you get either 5 or 10 licenses for
each program. Would be far cheaper then buying three copies of XP. Hey I
upgraded from 98SE this year to XP Pro also on this PC.
http://members.microsoft.com/partner/default.aspx General Info
http://members.microsoft.com/partner/salesmarketing/partnermarket/actionpack/actionpackus.aspx
Price list and links to what you receive.
--
Tedd Riggs
PDA Square Content Developer
www.pdasquare.com
Redmond, WA
"mbox204" > wrote in message
...
> If I get this right, for every PC I have in my household, I have to get a
> retail box of XP Professional to load onto each one of the 3 boxes,
> meaning
> spend full price money on 3 retail boxes of XP Pro (I don't do the upgrade
> thing, only clean installs). Is there not some cheaper way of getting
> multiple installs off one CD, aside from doing something illegal, such as
> load Win 2000 on each PC. I am upgrading from WIN 98, yes that is right,
> Win 98 in the year 2004.
>
>
Tedd Riggs
February 27th 04, 06:32 AM
Yep sure is illegal.
--
Tedd Riggs
PDA Square Content Developer
www.pdasquare.com
Redmond, WA
"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
> Isn't that illegal?
>
>
> "Microsoft" > wrote in message
> ...
>> you can get a product key generator. you just have to look on the
> internet. there out there.
>
>
Tedd Riggs
February 27th 04, 06:33 AM
If you company has anything to do with Microsoft at all, you can join the
MAPS program (Microsoft for Partners-Action Paks) and its like a mini MSDN
and for $200-$300 you get a copy of most all of the major Microsoft Software
(Yes Windows XP PRO, Windows Server 2003 Premium Edition, Office 2003 and
many more) and depending on the product, you get either 5 or 10 licenses for
each program. Would be far cheaper then buying three copies of XP. Hey I
upgraded from 98SE this year to XP Pro also on this PC.
http://members.microsoft.com/partner/default.aspx General Info
http://members.microsoft.com/partner/salesmarketing/partnermarket/actionpack/actionpackus.aspx
Price list and links to what you receive.
--
Tedd Riggs
PDA Square Content Developer
www.pdasquare.com
Redmond, WA
"mbox204" > wrote in message
...
> If I get this right, for every PC I have in my household, I have to get a
> retail box of XP Professional to load onto each one of the 3 boxes,
> meaning
> spend full price money on 3 retail boxes of XP Pro (I don't do the upgrade
> thing, only clean installs). Is there not some cheaper way of getting
> multiple installs off one CD, aside from doing something illegal, such as
> load Win 2000 on each PC. I am upgrading from WIN 98, yes that is right,
> Win 98 in the year 2004.
>
>
Microsoft
February 27th 04, 06:33 AM
windows xp pro corp edition needs no activation use as many product keys as you want reinstall as many times as you want
Microsoft
February 27th 04, 06:34 AM
windows xp pro corp edition needs no activation use as many product keys as you want reinstall as many times as you want
Alex Nichol
February 27th 04, 06:03 PM
mbox204 wrote:
>If I get this right, for every PC I have in my household, I have to get a
>retail box of XP Professional to load onto each one of the 3 boxes, meaning
>spend full price money on 3 retail boxes of XP Pro (I don't do the upgrade
>thing, only clean installs). Is there not some cheaper way of getting
>multiple installs off one CD, aside from doing something illegal, such as
>load Win 2000 on each PC. I am upgrading from WIN 98, yes that is right,
If you have a legitimate Win98 for each machine, get Upgrade versions -
they will do clean installs too, if offered the Win98 CD (not an OEM
restore one though) as evidence. And consider whether you *need* Pro
rather than Home - quite probably not - see
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_home_pro.asp
for the list of things that are in Pro only. In addition Pro will
support ten simultaneous connections in a network - Home only five
But every since Win95 the system has *always* been provided under a
license to use one copy on one machine only. Period. So you need three
licensed copies for three machines. And did for your Win98 too.
--
Alex Nichol MS MVP (Windows Technologies)
Bournemouth, U.K. (remove the D8 bit)
Alex Nichol
February 27th 04, 06:03 PM
Microsoft wrote:
>windows xp pro corp edition needs no activation use as many product keys as you want reinstall as many times as you want
And is a doubly illegal pirated version.
Microsoft has it within its rights to supply windows on terms of its
choosing.
--
Alex Nichol MS MVP (Windows Technologies)
Bournemouth, U.K. (remove the D8 bit)
pjp
February 27th 04, 06:41 PM
And unforetunately for whatever level of stability they choose, providing
whatever level of documentation they wish for whatever price they like.
Isn't that the American business man's dream, get as much as possible while
providing as little as you have to regardless of any non-legal limitations,
e.g. morals and ethics?
"Alex Nichol" > wrote in message
...
> Microsoft wrote:
>
> >windows xp pro corp edition needs no activation use as many product keys
as you want reinstall as many times as you want
>
> And is a doubly illegal pirated version.
>
> Microsoft has it within its rights to supply windows on terms of its
> choosing.
>
> --
> Alex Nichol MS MVP (Windows Technologies)
> Bournemouth, U.K. (remove the D8 bit)
kurttrail
February 27th 04, 07:05 PM
"NoWaySpammers" > wrote in message
...
> Isn't that illegal?
Not necessarily.
--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
kurttrail
February 27th 04, 07:05 PM
wrote:
> Key generators are illegal... you can call microsoft and
> purchase extra licences u can negotiate a deal.....
Prove it. What law would some one be violating?
--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
kurttrail
February 27th 04, 07:05 PM
Frank Jelenko wrote:
> Of course it is.
Prove it. What law would you be violating?
--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
kurttrail
February 27th 04, 07:23 PM
Alex Nichol wrote:
> Microsoft wrote:
>
>> windows xp pro corp edition needs no activation use as many product
>> keys as you want reinstall as many times as you want
>
> And is a doubly illegal pirated version.
>
> Microsoft has it within its rights to supply windows on terms of its
> choosing.
Not above the law. They have certain rights, but that doesn't mean that
they have the right to violate the rights of indivduals to their copies
of software.
--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
GwD
February 27th 04, 09:05 PM
Its really simple:
If you don't like the agreement you have to make to install the software
then run something else.
Its as simple as that.
"kurttrail" > wrote in message
...
> Frank Jelenko wrote:
>
> > Of course it is.
>
> Prove it. What law would you be violating?
>
> --
> Peace!
> Kurt
> Self-anointed Moderator
> microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
> http://microscum.com
> "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
> "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
>
>
Plato
February 27th 04, 09:06 PM
GwD wrote:
>
> Its really simple:
NOt really that simple. For example, in many instances one has to
"agree" to causes in a "contract" to get work or service done. eg when
you park your car you "ageee" that the lot owner or hotel is NOT
responsible for the safe keeping of your auto when in fact, that's
totally false.
> If you don't like the agreement you have to make to install the software
> then run something else.
> Its as simple as that.
kurttrail
February 27th 04, 09:42 PM
GwD wrote:
> Its really simple:
>
> If you don't like the agreement you have to make to install the
> software then run something else.
> Its as simple as that.
Huh? What the f*ck does that have to do with a keygen being "illegal?"
I asked, "What law would you be violating?"
So answer it, or shut the f*ck up, sh*t-for-brains!
--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
GwD
February 28th 04, 12:22 AM
As usual you show you have the morals of a toad!
"kurttrail" > wrote in message
...
> GwD wrote:
>
> > Its really simple:
> >
> > If you don't like the agreement you have to make to install the
> > software then run something else.
> > Its as simple as that.
>
> Huh? What the f*ck does that have to do with a keygen being "illegal?"
>
> I asked, "What law would you be violating?"
>
> So answer it, or shut the f*ck up, sh*t-for-brains!
>
> --
> Peace!
> Kurt
> Self-anointed Moderator
> microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
> http://microscum.com
> "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
> "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
>
>
Frank Jelenko
February 28th 04, 01:28 AM
Well, alright. It's in violation of MS's EULA.
"kurttrail" > wrote in message
...
> Frank Jelenko wrote:
>
> > Of course it is.
>
> Prove it. What law would you be violating?
>
> --
> Peace!
> Kurt
> Self-anointed Moderator
> microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
> http://microscum.com
> "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
> "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
>
>
kurttrail
February 28th 04, 02:14 AM
GwD wrote:
> As usual you show you have the morals of a toad!
Yeah! Me and Janet Jackson's breast on TV are the effin' biggest problems
in the effin' world.
And as usual, you can't answer the question, dumbass! Sh*t-for-brains
always get up on their high-horse in order to avoid answering questions that
they are innately incapable of answering.
"I asked, 'What law would you be violating?'"
--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
kurttrail
February 28th 04, 02:45 AM
Frank Jelenko wrote:
> Well, alright. It's in violation of MS's EULA.
Which MS has yet to prove to be enforceable on private individuals. When MS
proves by the preponderance of the evidence that they can "shrink-wrap
license" away my "fair use" rights, violating MS's EULA will actually mean
something, but since MS has avoided doing just that for over 2 decades,
between DOS and Windows, I won't be holding my breath, and I will continue
to "fairly use" *MY* copies of software in accordance with Copyright *LAW*,
not MS's FUD-LUA.
MS can go sue me. Again, I won't be holding my breath.
--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
Bruce Chambers
February 28th 04, 03:02 AM
Greetings --
You can use one CD, as long as you've purchased an additional
license
for each additional computer.
As it has *always* been with *all* Microsoft operating
systems, it's necessary (to be in compliance with the EULA, if not
technically) to purchase one WinXP license for each computer on which
it is installed. The only way in which WinXP licensing differs from
that of earlier versions of Windows is that Microsoft has finally
added a copy protection and anti-theft mechanism, Product Activation,
to prevent (or at least make more difficult) multiple installations
using a single license
You can, however, buy additional licenses, assuming you have a
retail license. Naturally, Microsoft cannot sell additional OEM
licenses. Be aware, however, that you'll probably pay more this way
than you would if you were to buy a second copy of WinXP from a
discount retailer; Microsoft will only offer you a 15% discount off
their MSRP.
Additional Licenses for Windows XP Home Edition
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/howtobuy/addlic.asp
Additional Licenses for Windows XP Professional
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/howtobuy/addlic.asp
If you already have a qualifying operating system on each of your
PCs, as you say, you can purchase upgrade licenses for each, rather
than the full retail version. It's quite possible to perform a clean
installation using the Upgrade CD.
Simply boot from the WinXP Upgrade CD. The Upgrade CD checks to
see if a qualifying OS is installed, and, if it finds none, it asks
you to insert the installation media (CD) of that OS. Unfortunately,
an OEM "Recovery/Restore" CD will not work for this purpose; you must
have a true installation CD, complete with the "\Win98" folder and
*.cab files, or the "\i386" folder of WinNT/2K.
Alternatively, or especially if all you have is an OEM Recovery CD
for the earlier OS, you can even start the upgrade from within the
current Win98/Me/NT/2K installation, and still elect to perform a
clean installation, to include formatting the drive. In this case,
there's no further request for the qualifying OS's installation CD,
because the installation routing "remembers" that you started from
within the qualifying OS. This process is more time-consuming, but
you get the same results: a clean installation of WinXP.
Bruce Chambers
--
Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. -- RAH
"mbox204" > wrote in message
...
> If I get this right, for every PC I have in my household, I have to
> get a
> retail box of XP Professional to load onto each one of the 3 boxes,
> meaning
> spend full price money on 3 retail boxes of XP Pro (I don't do the
> upgrade
> thing, only clean installs). Is there not some cheaper way of
> getting
> multiple installs off one CD, aside from doing something illegal,
> such as
> load Win 2000 on each PC. I am upgrading from WIN 98, yes that is
> right,
> Win 98 in the year 2004.
>
>
Danny Mingledorff
March 1st 04, 10:10 PM
While Kurt has been quite vocal about his opinions, I don't think he's ever
been less than moral, let alone failed to live up to the high moral
standards set by various amphibians.
You may disagree with his ethical views and interpretations, however.
And yeah, I'm splitting hairs here, but that seems to be the theme in most
of these activation threads, no offense to the participants who may be
folicly challenged.
"GwD" > wrote in message
...
> As usual you show you have the morals of a toad!
>
>
> "kurttrail" > wrote in message
> ...
> > GwD wrote:
> >
> > > Its really simple:
> > >
> > > If you don't like the agreement you have to make to install the
> > > software then run something else.
> > > Its as simple as that.
> >
> > Huh? What the f*ck does that have to do with a keygen being "illegal?"
> >
> > I asked, "What law would you be violating?"
> >
> > So answer it, or shut the f*ck up, sh*t-for-brains!
> >
> > --
> > Peace!
> > Kurt
> > Self-anointed Moderator
> > microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
> > http://microscum.com
> > "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
> > "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
> >
> >
>
>
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