new motherboard--have to buy a new copy of XP??!!

[Jim]

Hi!

My name is Jim and I live in Colorado Springs, CO. Recently I bought a new motherboard to upgrade my, long-in-the-tooth, e-machine computer. I did consider resealing Windows XP before changing the board but I decided not to since my copy of XP is the upg
rade version (at least I assume it is, it was loaded on to the system by the oem, of course) and I thought this could lead to trouble. Besides, I felt I could always explore that option latter if needed.

I did expect the system to protest and perhaps make me call Microsoft for a code but what happened instead came as a complete surprise. After changing the motherboard I first just tried to reboot the computer into the safe mode however Windows XP refused
to do this. So I inserted the e-machine recovery disk into the CD-ROM player. I was surprised to see the exact same message; something to the affect that Windows could not boot into the safe mode and this problem could be the result of hardware issues ca
used by hardware issues.

Well, I first called e-machine support and was told that since I did not send the computer to them to put in a new e-machine motherboard (I doubt if this is even an option on my system) that they could not offer me any support. I explained that all I want
ed was a way to get to the Windows XP files [I tried to boot directly from the recovery disk, this works but you really have no where to go from this point. I first booted from the recovery disk and then tried to install Win 98 from a CD-ROM but received
the dreaded “incorrect COMMAND.COM� message.]

I then called Microsoft and talked to a pleasant support specialist who gave me the number to get media copies. I have not called them yet (I work nights and they are closed by time I get home) but I will very soon of course. However I am very concerned
that they will say that they cannot send me a copy of Windows XP since I DO have my copy from e-machine.

You know I am a big fan of Microsoft. The people who argue that Microsoft has monopoly power in some of the market segments that they are in never bring up one very salient point. Microsoft makes GREAT products! This being said I have never cared for so
me of their policies concerning how many copies of the operating system an individual user (not a company or organized group of some kind but just an ordinary individual) has to buy. If I own five computers I still believe I should only have to buy one co
py of the operating system, after all I cannot use all five computers at once. This goes hand in glove with my belief that Microsoft should go a little easier on the hobbyist user (who some might call a “power� user) since from the ranks of these hobb
yists often emerge the new ideas that drive the industry. Also the hobbyist user will spend much more money on both hardware and software than just an ordinary user---why not give them a break?

Another aspect of this policy that disturbs me (especially with the strong enforcement mechanism built-in to Windows XP) is that it is a policy that basically represents a death sentence for the white-box computing business (what I mean by “white box ind
ustry� is all of the small computer stores that you see in strip-malls etc.). After all the logic of using components is declining in the face of ever falling PC prices and if you are going to be forced to buy a new operating system just because you cha
nged the mother board in your computer obviously this is going to be an unworkable situation very rapidly. With a low end computer the price of the operating system alone can represent 20-25% of the cost.

But getting back to the issue at hand, I just want to know if other people have had the same issue to contend with and what kind of outcome did they experience. Also do you agree with my premise that since I did buy Windows XP when I purchased my e-machin
e computer that I am entitled to have new copies of the disks (separate from what is locked up in my e-machine recovery disks) just as if I had bought a copy in the store and for some reason I needed some new media? I would also like to hear from anyone w
ho disagrees with this premise.

Thanks,
Jim

Please CC to

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

The preinstalled OEM Windows XP license that comes with a
manufacturer's computer is uniquely tied to the specific hardware
configuration of the computer. If you change the motherboard,
and it is a different model, the license is no longer valid.

If you wish to make significant hardware changes, then you'll
have to purchase a conventional "retail version" of Windows XP.

Windows XP OEM Clarification
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/oemeula.htm

[Courtesy of MS-MVP Michael Stevens]

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

Be Smart! Protect your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/security/protect/

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Jim" > wrote in message:
...

| Hi!
|
| My name is Jim and I live in Colorado Springs, CO. Recently I bought a new motherboard to upgrade my,
long-in-the-tooth, e-machine computer. I did consider resealing Windows XP before changing the board but I
decided not to since my copy of XP is the upgrade version (at least I assume it is, it was loaded on to the
system by the oem, of course) and I thought this could lead to trouble. Besides, I felt I could always
explore that option latter if needed.
|
| I did expect the system to protest and perhaps make me call Microsoft for a code but what happened instead
came as a complete surprise. After changing the motherboard I first just tried to reboot the computer into
the safe mode however Windows XP refused to do this. So I inserted the e-machine recovery disk into the
CD-ROM player. I was surprised to see the exact same message; something to the affect that Windows could not
boot into the safe mode and this problem could be the result of hardware issues caused by hardware issues.
|
| Well, I first called e-machine support and was told that since I did not send the computer to them to put in
a new e-machine motherboard (I doubt if this is even an option on my system) that they could not offer me any
support. I explained that all I wanted was a way to get to the Windows XP files [I tried to boot directly
from the recovery disk, this works but you really have no where to go from this point. I first booted from
the recovery disk and then tried to install Win 98 from a CD-ROM but received the dreaded "incorrect
COMMAND.COM" message.]
|
| I then called Microsoft and talked to a pleasant support specialist who gave me the number to get media
copies. I have not called them yet (I work nights and they are closed by time I get home) but I will very
soon of course. However I am very concerned that they will say that they cannot send me a copy of Windows XP
since I DO have my copy from e-machine.
|
| You know I am a big fan of Microsoft. The people who argue that Microsoft has monopoly power in some of the
market segments that they are in never bring up one very salient point. Microsoft makes GREAT products! This
being said I have never cared for some of their policies concerning how many copies of the operating system an
individual user (not a company or organized group of some kind but just an ordinary individual) has to buy.
If I own five computers I still believe I should only have to buy one copy of the operating system, after all
I cannot use all five computers at once. This goes hand in glove with my belief that Microsoft should go a
little easier on the hobbyist user (who some might call a "power" user) since from the ranks of these
hobbyists often emerge the new ideas that drive the industry. Also the hobbyist user will spend much more
money on both hardware and software than just an ordinary user---why not give them a break?
|
| Another aspect of this policy that disturbs me (especially with the strong enforcement mechanism built-in to
Windows XP) is that it is a policy that basically represents a death sentence for the white-box computing
business (what I mean by "white box industry" is all of the small computer stores that you see in strip-malls
etc.). After all the logic of using components is declining in the face of ever falling PC prices and if you
are going to be forced to buy a new operating system just because you changed the mother board in your
computer obviously this is going to be an unworkable situation very rapidly. With a low end computer the
price of the operating system alone can represent 20-25% of the cost.
|
| But getting back to the issue at hand, I just want to know if other people have had the same issue to
contend with and what kind of outcome did they experience. Also do you agree with my premise that since I did
buy Windows XP when I purchased my e-machine computer that I am entitled to have new copies of the disks
(separate from what is locked up in my e-machine recovery disks) just as if I had bought a copy in the store
and for some reason I needed some new media? I would also like to hear from anyone who disagrees with this
premise.
|
| Thanks,
| Jim

[Steve C. Ray]

Jim, as far as using one copy of XP on several machines - You didn't pay for
XP; you paid for a license to use it on one computer. I understand that you
would be using it on only one computer at a time, but it is still licensed
to be installed on only one computer at a time. If you own more than one car
the state of Colorado won't let you buy just one license plate to use on all
your cars, even though you can drive only one at a time.
Your OEM version (its not a upgrade) was tied to the computer that it was
first installed on. When you installed the new motherboard, your version of
XP saw that it was no longer the same board that it was licensed for; hence
the problem. The OEM versions of XP are much cheaper than the retail
versions because of these limitations. We may not like it, but that is the
way it is. The EULA states this clearly.
I think the cheapest way out of your problem is to purchase a new OEM copy,
but you will have the same limitations. That's why I would never buy a OEM
version. If you have a CD for Windows 95, 98, 98SE, or ME you can purchase a
retail Upgrade version of XP (I have seen it at the discount stores for
$79-$89) and not have any problems in the future with hardware upgrades. Of
course it's still one copy of XP - one computer.
Hope you get things worked out.

--
Steve C. Ray

"Jim" > wrote in message
...
> Hi!
>
> My name is Jim and I live in Colorado Springs, CO. Recently I bought a
new motherboard to upgrade my, long-in-the-tooth, e-machine computer. I did
consider resealing Windows XP before changing the board but I decided not to
since my copy of XP is the upgrade version (at least I assume it is, it was
loaded on to the system by the oem, of course) and I thought this could lead
to trouble. Besides, I felt I could always explore that option latter if
needed.
>
> I did expect the system to protest and perhaps make me call Microsoft for
a code but what happened instead came as a complete surprise. After
changing the motherboard I first just tried to reboot the computer into the
safe mode however Windows XP refused to do this. So I inserted the
e-machine recovery disk into the CD-ROM player. I was surprised to see the
exact same message; something to the affect that Windows could not boot into
the safe mode and this problem could be the result of hardware issues caused
by hardware issues.
>
> Well, I first called e-machine support and was told that since I did not
send the computer to them to put in a new e-machine motherboard (I doubt if
this is even an option on my system) that they could not offer me any
support. I explained that all I wanted was a way to get to the Windows XP
files [I tried to boot directly from the recovery disk, this works but you
really have no where to go from this point. I first booted from the
recovery disk and then tried to install Win 98 from a CD-ROM but received
the dreaded "incorrect COMMAND.COM" message.]
>
> I then called Microsoft and talked to a pleasant support specialist who
gave me the number to get media copies. I have not called them yet (I work
nights and they are closed by time I get home) but I will very soon of
course. However I am very concerned that they will say that they cannot
send me a copy of Windows XP since I DO have my copy from e-machine.
>
> You know I am a big fan of Microsoft. The people who argue that Microsoft
has monopoly power in some of the market segments that they are in never
bring up one very salient point. Microsoft makes GREAT products! This
being said I have never cared for some of their policies concerning how many
copies of the operating system an individual user (not a company or
organized group of some kind but just an ordinary individual) has to buy.
If I own five computers I still believe I should only have to buy one copy
of the operating system, after all I cannot use all five computers at once.
This goes hand in glove with my belief that Microsoft should go a little
easier on the hobbyist user (who some might call a "power" user) since from
the ranks of these hobbyists often emerge the new ideas that drive the
industry. Also the hobbyist user will spend much more money on both
hardware and software than just an ordinary user---why not give them a
break?
>
> Another aspect of this policy that disturbs me (especially with the strong
enforcement mechanism built-in to Windows XP) is that it is a policy that
basically represents a death sentence for the white-box computing business
(what I mean by "white box industry" is all of the small computer stores
that you see in strip-malls etc.). After all the logic of using components
is declining in the face of ever falling PC prices and if you are going to
be forced to buy a new operating system just because you changed the mother
board in your computer obviously this is going to be an unworkable situation
very rapidly. With a low end computer the price of the operating system
alone can represent 20-25% of the cost.
>
> But getting back to the issue at hand, I just want to know if other people
have had the same issue to contend with and what kind of outcome did they
experience. Also do you agree with my premise that since I did buy Windows
XP when I purchased my e-machine computer that I am entitled to have new
copies of the disks (separate from what is locked up in my e-machine
recovery disks) just as if I had bought a copy in the store and for some
reason I needed some new media? I would also like to hear from anyone who
disagrees with this premise.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
> Please CC to
>

[Michael Solomon \(MS-MVP Windows Shell/User\)]

The policy is not as rigid as you suggest. If you had a retail version of
XP as opposed to an OEM version, you could change out the motherboard and
about all you'd have to do is a repair install of XP. As to the hobbyist,
if they change enough hardware and it's been less than 120 days since they
last activated, they might be requested to make a phone call wherein an
operator would give them a new activation code. Most of the time, only an
activation over the Internet is required, that's nothing more than a
handshake over the Internet between two computers and you can activate as
much as you find necessary on the same computer.

--
Michael Solomon MS-MVP
Windows Shell/User
Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/

"Jim" > wrote in message
...
> Hi!
>
> My name is Jim and I live in Colorado Springs, CO. Recently I bought a
> new motherboard to upgrade my, long-in-the-tooth, e-machine computer. I
> did consider resealing Windows XP before changing the board but I decided
> not to since my copy of XP is the upgrade version (at least I assume it
> is, it was loaded on to the system by the oem, of course) and I thought
> this could lead to trouble. Besides, I felt I could always explore that
> option latter if needed.
>
> I did expect the system to protest and perhaps make me call Microsoft for
> a code but what happened instead came as a complete surprise. After
> changing the motherboard I first just tried to reboot the computer into
> the safe mode however Windows XP refused to do this. So I inserted the
> e-machine recovery disk into the CD-ROM player. I was surprised to see
> the exact same message; something to the affect that Windows could not
> boot into the safe mode and this problem could be the result of hardware
> issues caused by hardware issues.
>
> Well, I first called e-machine support and was told that since I did not
> send the computer to them to put in a new e-machine motherboard (I doubt
> if this is even an option on my system) that they could not offer me any
> support. I explained that all I wanted was a way to get to the Windows XP
> files [I tried to boot directly from the recovery disk, this works but you
> really have no where to go from this point. I first booted from the
> recovery disk and then tried to install Win 98 from a CD-ROM but received
> the dreaded "incorrect COMMAND.COM" message.]
>
> I then called Microsoft and talked to a pleasant support specialist who
> gave me the number to get media copies. I have not called them yet (I
> work nights and they are closed by time I get home) but I will very soon
> of course. However I am very concerned that they will say that they
> cannot send me a copy of Windows XP since I DO have my copy from
> e-machine.
>
> You know I am a big fan of Microsoft. The people who argue that Microsoft
> has monopoly power in some of the market segments that they are in never
> bring up one very salient point. Microsoft makes GREAT products! This
> being said I have never cared for some of their policies concerning how
> many copies of the operating system an individual user (not a company or
> organized group of some kind but just an ordinary individual) has to buy.
> If I own five computers I still believe I should only have to buy one copy
> of the operating system, after all I cannot use all five computers at
> once. This goes hand in glove with my belief that Microsoft should go a
> little easier on the hobbyist user (who some might call a "power" user)
> since from the ranks of these hobbyists often emerge the new ideas that
> drive the industry. Also the hobbyist user will spend much more money on
> both hardware and software than just an ordinary user---why not give them
> a break?
>
> Another aspect of this policy that disturbs me (especially with the strong
> enforcement mechanism built-in to Windows XP) is that it is a policy that
> basically represents a death sentence for the white-box computing business
> (what I mean by "white box industry" is all of the small computer stores
> that you see in strip-malls etc.). After all the logic of using
> components is declining in the face of ever falling PC prices and if you
> are going to be forced to buy a new operating system just because you
> changed the mother board in your computer obviously this is going to be an
> unworkable situation very rapidly. With a low end computer the price of
> the operating system alone can represent 20-25% of the cost.
>
> But getting back to the issue at hand, I just want to know if other people
> have had the same issue to contend with and what kind of outcome did they
> experience. Also do you agree with my premise that since I did buy
> Windows XP when I purchased my e-machine computer that I am entitled to
> have new copies of the disks (separate from what is locked up in my
> e-machine recovery disks) just as if I had bought a copy in the store and
> for some reason I needed some new media? I would also like to hear from
> anyone who disagrees with this premise.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
> Please CC to
>

[§kullywag©-]

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 11:30:36 -0600, "Steve C. Ray" >
wrote:

>Jim, as far as using one copy of XP on several machines - You didn't pay for
>XP; you paid for a license to use it on one computer. I understand that you
>would be using it on only one computer at a time, but it is still licensed
>to be installed on only one computer at a time. If you own more than one car
>the state of Colorado won't let you buy just one license plate to use on all
>your cars, even though you can drive only one at a time.
>Your OEM version (its not a upgrade) was tied to the computer that it was
>first installed on. When you installed the new motherboard, your version of
>XP saw that it was no longer the same board that it was licensed for; hence
>the problem. The OEM versions of XP are much cheaper than the retail
>versions because of these limitations. We may not like it, but that is the
>way it is. The EULA states this clearly.
>I think the cheapest way out of your problem is to purchase a new OEM copy,
>but you will have the same limitations. That's why I would never buy a OEM
>version. If you have a CD for Windows 95, 98, 98SE, or ME you can purchase a
>retail Upgrade version of XP (I have seen it at the discount stores for
>$79-$89) and not have any problems in the future with hardware upgrades. Of
>course it's still one copy of XP - one computer.
>Hope you get things worked out.

Yes, he is stuck with buying a retail version of XP.

I feel that Microsoft's part in the deal is ludicrous though. I
thought the whole point of OEM copies it to relieve MS from the
support burden, thus providing a cheaper option for the vendor?
WHY MS deems it necessary to "cripple" these versions is beyond me.
Upgrading a motherboard is possible with both Pro and Home. The
license is still PAID for, whether it is an OEM, retail, or partition
copy.
If this is the way they want to distribute their OS, they should add
truth to their advertising and boldly label the discs " XP Pro, XP
Home, and XP CRAP". And I'm dead serious about this.

Their assertion that a new motherboard constitutes a new "system" is
as absurd as saying a new hard drive, cd rom drive, mouse, or modem
does. By the way, if they HAVE to draw the line somewhere, why at the
MB? Doesn't the processor make more sense, seeing how every processor
sold has it's own unique ID? Is it because MB's flake out regularly,
and processors don't? Is it strictly a money game?

The earlier comparison to cars is also absurd.
Just because he replaces the motherboard, does not magically give him
a SECOND computer, to swap OS's back and forth with.





§kullywag©-

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

You need to get your facts straight.
Microsoft does not "deems it necessary", that is the choice of the OEM
OEM is cheaper for many reasons.
The lack of portability is only one of them.

The OEM and not Microsoft determine how they will comply with the
licensing.
Many OEMs choose to BIOS lock their Windows.

Further, the OEMs determine how far they will support a system.
That is why some OEMs do not have BIOS locked versions and you can
replace the motherboard with no problems.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"§kullywag©-" > wrote in message
...
> I feel that Microsoft's part in the deal is ludicrous though. I
> thought the whole point of OEM copies it to relieve MS from the
> support burden, thus providing a cheaper option for the vendor?
> WHY MS deems it necessary to "cripple" these versions is beyond me.
> Upgrading a motherboard is possible with both Pro and Home. The
> license is still PAID for, whether it is an OEM, retail, or
partition
> copy.
> If this is the way they want to distribute their OS, they should add
> truth to their advertising and boldly label the discs " XP Pro, XP
> Home, and XP CRAP". And I'm dead serious about this.
>
> Their assertion that a new motherboard constitutes a new "system" is
> as absurd as saying a new hard drive, cd rom drive, mouse, or modem
> does. By the way, if they HAVE to draw the line somewhere, why at
the
> MB? Doesn't the processor make more sense, seeing how every
processor
> sold has it's own unique ID? Is it because MB's flake out
regularly,
> and processors don't? Is it strictly a money game?
>
> The earlier comparison to cars is also absurd.
> Just because he replaces the motherboard, does not magically give
him
> a SECOND computer, to swap OS's back and forth with.
>
>
>
>
>
> §kullywag©-