I can't open a document fom my floppy disk.

[Sebbyj]

I have been working on a computer on home and a computer at school. Last night I attempted to load my document, but Microsoft office couldn't load. It just stopped. I tried to open the document again at school, but it wouldn't open there either.

[Sebbyj]

I ment that microsoft word couldn't load the file.

[David Candy]

Xref: kermit microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers:124361

It's not meant to be able to. It is NOT designed to open files on =
floppies, that it manages with small files on nearly empty floppies is =
just a fluke that it works. Copy to hard drive.

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http://www.g2mil.com/Dec2003.htm
"Sebbyj" > wrote in message =
...
> I ment that microsoft word couldn't load the file.

[Sebbyj]

Thanks. I'm copying right now. I also haven't been able to open pictures on my floppy disk.

[Sebbyj]

Sorry to bother you again, but in the process of copying it stopped and said "cyclic reduncy error" or something like that. What does that mean?

[*Vanguard*]

"Sebbyj" said in
:
> Sorry to bother you again, but in the process of copying it stopped
> and said "cyclic reduncy error" or something like that. What does
> that mean?

Tried to open files and/or copy them to the hard drive from other
floppies? Sounds like you have a bad floppy. Or the drive you used to
format and save file is out of alignment or the one you're trying to
read the floppy is out of alignment (i.e. one of them needs replacing).
Could be the file simply got corrupted and needs to be copied onto the
floppy again. You might also try using a cleaning diskette and solvent
to ensure the heads aren't dirty.

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[David Candy]

CRC errors mean the data on disk is not the same as what was written. =
The data gets written and a number (calculated from the data) is also =
written by the floppy hardware. When reading the hardware checks the =
data against the number and raises an error if it doesn't match.

Computers won't use faulty data (a design decision) so everything stops. =
Older versions of Nortons had Disk Tools which would read the data and =
write it to a new file ignoring errors.=20

Your data may be ok and the number is corrupt. The number is calculated =
in 512 byte sets so even if damaged most of your file is ok.

Try coping from a command prompt and if you get a prompt that says =
Ignore it will just ignore those 512 bytes. Word documents have a text =
component and a binary component. Word itself has recover text from any =
file convertor that will try to extract what text it can.
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http://www.g2mil.com/Dec2003.htm
"*Vanguard*" > wrote in message =
...
> "Sebbyj" said in
> :
> > Sorry to bother you again, but in the process of copying it stopped
> > and said "cyclic reduncy error" or something like that. What does
> > that mean?
>=20
> Tried to open files and/or copy them to the hard drive from other
> floppies? Sounds like you have a bad floppy. Or the drive you used =
to
> format and save file is out of alignment or the one you're trying to
> read the floppy is out of alignment (i.e. one of them needs =
replacing).
> Could be the file simply got corrupted and needs to be copied onto the
> floppy again. You might also try using a cleaning diskette and =
solvent
> to ensure the heads aren't dirty.
>=20
> --=20
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> __________________________________________________ __________
>

[Gordon]

>-----Original Message-----
>I have been working on a computer on home and a computer
at school. Last night I attempted to load my document, but
Microsoft office couldn't load. It just stopped. I tried
to open the document again at school, but it wouldn't open
there either.
>.
>

Can't you email the document backwards and forwards
instead of using the archaic floopy?

[*Vanguard*]

"David Candy" said in :
> CRC errors mean the data on disk is not the same as what was written.
> The data gets written and a number (calculated from the data) is also
> written by the floppy hardware. When reading the hardware checks the
> data against the number and raises an error if it doesn't match.
>
> Computers won't use faulty data (a design decision) so everything
> stops. Older versions of Nortons had Disk Tools which would read the
> data and write it to a new file ignoring errors.
>
> Your data may be ok and the number is corrupt. The number is
> calculated in 512 byte sets so even if damaged most of your file is
> ok.
>
> Try coping from a command prompt and if you get a prompt that says
> Ignore it will just ignore those 512 bytes. Word documents have a
> text component and a binary component. Word itself has recover text
> from any file convertor that will try to extract what text it can.
>> "Sebbyj" said in
>> :
>>> Sorry to bother you again, but in the process of copying it stopped
>>> and said "cyclic reduncy error" or something like that. What does
>>> that mean?
>>
>> Tried to open files and/or copy them to the hard drive from other
>> floppies? Sounds like you have a bad floppy. Or the drive you used
>> to format and save file is out of alignment or the one you're trying
>> to read the floppy is out of alignment (i.e. one of them needs
>> replacing). Could be the file simply got corrupted and needs to be
>> copied onto the floppy again. You might also try using a cleaning
>> diskette and solvent to ensure the heads aren't dirty.
>>
>> --
>> __________________________________________________ __________
>> *** Post replies to newsgroup. E-mail is not accepted. ***
>> __________________________________________________ __________

Yeah, I know what CRC means.

- Could be the preformatted floppy was created by faulty mass production
equipment that had its heads out of alignment. It has bappened and
means going back to the store to get a new batch won't help because it
is likely the entire batch the store has is bad (but you can try going
to another store). Or just reformat the floppy. The floppy drive used
to lay down the file may have been able to write okay but the floppy
used to read is out of alignment. Parts of the file may be readable,
other sectors fail, so the CRC won't match and the file looks bad so you
get that error.

- If you formatted the floppy, could be that drive is out of alignment
in one direction (but within specs) and the floppy drive you read from
is also out of alignment (but within specs) but the two misalignments
together exceed the width allowed and you get a read error which again
results in a CRC error.

- Formatting a drive lays down magnetic patterns whose dipoles are under
stress. Over time, and because the dipoles want to return to their
least stress position (which is parallel each other instead of in
alignment), the media goes "soft". You end up losing bits over time on
magnetic media. Since floppies get carried around in pockets, suffer
larger ranges of heat and physical stress, and so on, they go soft
faster than the rust on the hard platters of a fixed drive. When you
wrote the file it was okay because the dipoles got reinforced in their
position. Over time, some dipoles start to drift, the media goes soft,
and you lose bits (aka retentivity wanes). That causes a CRC error on a
read (performed a long time later). That's why some utilities will
actually read the data off a floppy, run through a couple patterns to
"wash" that spot on the floppy, and write the data back down in the same
place. It's called refreshing your floppy.

- A gamma ray hit a dipole and changed its position.

- The floppy got near a magnetic field during transport or storage. An
old telephone with the transformer for the ringer clapper, a magnet, a
magnetized screwdriver (don't use those around computers), or whatever.
The magnetic flux across the floppy corrupts the data and you get a CRC
error.

- I've seen some floppies that have a permanent "soft" spot where
retentivity is always weak (happens on hard drives, and even more so
with plated platters when the plated surface starts to bubble away from
the substrate). You might be able to write but reading is iffy. The
drive itself will retry something like 5 times to read a bad spot and
the OS will also attempt several retries. With several OS retries per
every hardware retry, the number of retries is something like 15 times,
so it could be a flaky spot that manages to eventually get read okay.

- The heads on the write or read drive are dirty, or the floppy is dirty
(the liner is supposed to help but obviously it can get polluted over
repeated uses and stop removing filth). Some bits read okay, others
don't, so you get a CRC error.

- The CRC is a hash code from the bits in the file. The data might be
okay but the CRC is wrong or got corrupted. I've seen this also happen
with WinZip when trying to store thousands of files in a .zip file; the
computed CRC that got stored in the .zip file was wrong, the data is
okay, so you have to tell Winzip to extract despite the CRC error. This
error was repeatable and the reason I had to abandon WinZip and go with
PKZip.

There are probably other causes. The point is that the problem is
hardware based. The above just points out some possible causes. If the
file still exists on the source computer, format the transport floppy on
the target computer (so it gets formatted on the drive that will read
the data), take it to the source computer to write the file (still using
the tracks laid down by the target drive), and then read it on the
target computer. Otherwise, time for some cleaning, refreshing,
reformatting, and possibly replacing a floppy drive. You can buy
testing software that includes a calibration floppy but it would be
cheaper just to replace the floppy drive.

-


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