Newbies and nerds

[Douglas Wilson]

The responses to questions and/or problems on this forum sometime leave a
lot to be desired. While some of the queries may seem to be 'dumb' at times
and may irritate experienced computer users, a little courtesy and patience
would go a long way. Everyone has to start somewhere, and whether some are
switching to Win XP because of Microsoft support policies, or have purchased
new systems and are hopelessly lost, please give them a break.

Jumping on users who SHOUT or don't spica duh english too well are not
helpful.

Hats off to those who volunteer their time and expertise for the overall
betterment of the computing community.

Just my two cents worth.

DRW

[Unknown]

Well said.
"Douglas Wilson" > wrote in message
...
> The responses to questions and/or problems on this forum sometime leave a
> lot to be desired. While some of the queries may seem to be 'dumb' at
times
> and may irritate experienced computer users, a little courtesy and
patience
> would go a long way. Everyone has to start somewhere, and whether some are
> switching to Win XP because of Microsoft support policies, or have
purchased
> new systems and are hopelessly lost, please give them a break.
>
> Jumping on users who SHOUT or don't spica duh english too well are not
> helpful.
>
> Hats off to those who volunteer their time and expertise for the overall
> betterment of the computing community.
>
> Just my two cents worth.
>
> DRW
>
>

[D.Currie]

Unfortunately, some people enjoy being annoying, and there's no way to stop
them. That applies to both those who post questions and those who answer.

And there are times when what is meant as a polite response is read as
something else.

"Douglas Wilson" > wrote in message
...
> The responses to questions and/or problems on this forum sometime leave a
> lot to be desired. While some of the queries may seem to be 'dumb' at
times
> and may irritate experienced computer users, a little courtesy and
patience
> would go a long way. Everyone has to start somewhere, and whether some are
> switching to Win XP because of Microsoft support policies, or have
purchased
> new systems and are hopelessly lost, please give them a break.
>
> Jumping on users who SHOUT or don't spica duh english too well are not
> helpful.
>
> Hats off to those who volunteer their time and expertise for the overall
> betterment of the computing community.
>
> Just my two cents worth.
>
> DRW
>
>

[Joseph Conway \(MSFT\)]

I really appreciate this post Douglas. Coming from a background of doing 9x
personal support for a while I can appreciate the novice side of the
business as well as the enterprise side. I think there is a tendency in the
IT field to forget that there is still a large contingent of people that are
just now getting their first PC and their first exposure to it.

Thanks for the post!

--
Joseph W. Conway, MCSE
Windows 9x/NT/2000/2003 Server Group

Opinions expressed here are my personal opinions and are provided without
warranty.

318752 HOW TO: Install and Use the Recovery Console in Windows 2000
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=318752

"Douglas Wilson" > wrote in message
...
> The responses to questions and/or problems on this forum sometime leave a
> lot to be desired. While some of the queries may seem to be 'dumb' at
times
> and may irritate experienced computer users, a little courtesy and
patience
> would go a long way. Everyone has to start somewhere, and whether some are
> switching to Win XP because of Microsoft support policies, or have
purchased
> new systems and are hopelessly lost, please give them a break.
>
> Jumping on users who SHOUT or don't spica duh english too well are not
> helpful.
>
> Hats off to those who volunteer their time and expertise for the overall
> betterment of the computing community.
>
> Just my two cents worth.
>
> DRW
>
>

[Sharon F]

Douglas Wilson wrote:
> The responses to questions and/or problems on this forum sometime leave a
> lot to be desired. While some of the queries may seem to be 'dumb' at
times
> and may irritate experienced computer users, a little courtesy and
patience
> would go a long way. Everyone has to start somewhere, and whether some are
> switching to Win XP because of Microsoft support policies, or have
purchased
> new systems and are hopelessly lost, please give them a break.
>
> Jumping on users who SHOUT or don't spica duh english too well are not
> helpful.
>
> Hats off to those who volunteer their time and expertise for the overall
> betterment of the computing community.
>
> Just my two cents worth.
>
> DRW

Just want to add... Communication within any individual thread is very
important. It may be someone's misfortune that they have to describe a
problem before they know the technical lingo to accurately describe it.

The flip side is that it is sometimes difficult to write responses without
knowing a person's level of ability. If the answer is worded in terms that
are too basic, please don't be offended. Especially if reading in the basics
or newusers groups. If the opposite is true - an answer is too technical,
please don't hesitate to ask for a more detailed explanation.

Once the communication and followup takes place, a newsgroup thread becomes
a useful reference for others with similar questions or problems. The web
interface can make it very difficult to follow threads. New users may want
to spend a little bit of time learning to use a newsreader such as Outlook
Express to take full advantage of what newsgroups have to offer.

Here's a link to one site (of many) that gives the very basics for getting
started with OE:
http://thetabletpc.net/support.htm
--
Sharon F
Microsoft MVP, Windows - Shell/User

[Jon]

"Douglas Wilson" > wrote in message =
...
> The responses to questions and/or problems on this forum sometime =
leave a
> lot to be desired. While some of the queries may seem to be 'dumb' at =
times
> and may irritate experienced computer users, a little courtesy and =
patience
> would go a long way. Everyone has to start somewhere, and whether some =
are
> switching to Win XP because of Microsoft support policies, or have =
purchased
> new systems and are hopelessly lost, please give them a break.
>=20
> Jumping on users who SHOUT or don't spica duh english too well are not
> helpful.
>=20
> Hats off to those who volunteer their time and expertise for the =
overall
> betterment of the computing community.
>=20
> Just my two cents worth.
>=20
> DRW

I totally agree with you, and I personally go out of my way to get on =
the ones who do what you say, especially the brat NG cop Amethyst. There =
are a few others too. But most here do a great job, and I for one =
appreciate their free time in helping others.

[Unknown]

But you sure as hell jump all over someone that you think made a mistake.
Who are you trying to impress?
"Jon" > wrote in message
...

"Douglas Wilson" > wrote in message
...
> The responses to questions and/or problems on this forum sometime leave a
> lot to be desired. While some of the queries may seem to be 'dumb' at
times
> and may irritate experienced computer users, a little courtesy and
patience
> would go a long way. Everyone has to start somewhere, and whether some are
> switching to Win XP because of Microsoft support policies, or have
purchased
> new systems and are hopelessly lost, please give them a break.
>
> Jumping on users who SHOUT or don't spica duh english too well are not
> helpful.
>
> Hats off to those who volunteer their time and expertise for the overall
> betterment of the computing community.
>
> Just my two cents worth.
>
> DRW

I totally agree with you, and I personally go out of my way to get on the
ones who do what you say, especially the brat NG cop Amethyst. There are a
few others too. But most here do a great job, and I for one appreciate their
free time in helping others.

[Jon]

"Unknown" > wrote in message =
y.com...
> But you sure as hell jump all over someone that you think made a =
mistake.
> Who are you trying to impress?

You mean people who list themselves as "knowledgeable", and post =
technocrap? Sure I do, but not to someone I know who needs help. You're =
one of those technocrap artists yourself!

[Unknown]

What a dumb ass. Where did I list myself as 'knowledgeable'? Where did I
post technocrap? Grow up and get some people experience. Your 'better than
thou' attitude absolutely sucks. Why don't you reread this thread.
"Jon" > wrote in message
...

"Unknown" > wrote in message
y.com...
> But you sure as hell jump all over someone that you think made a mistake.
> Who are you trying to impress?

You mean people who list themselves as "knowledgeable", and post technocrap?
Sure I do, but not to someone I know who needs help. You're one of those
technocrap artists yourself!

[Jon]

"Unknown" > wrote in message =
y.com...
> What a dumb ass. Where did I list myself as 'knowledgeable'? Where did =
I
> post technocrap? Grow up and get some people experience. Your 'better =
than
> thou' attitude absolutely sucks. Why don't you reread this thread.

You just proved my point, as your reading skills lack. Where did I say =
YOU were knowledgeable, which I wouldn't anyway. I was generalizing, but =
I will rethink that the next time I need to make it more simple for you. =
Anyway, you want an example of your technocrap, especially when you =
seemingly ripped one of the best MVPs in here. When I called you on it, =
you gave an excuse that lameness couldn't justify, hence why I then =
didn't reply to you again in that thread!

http://makeashorterlink.com/?A39723AA4

[Richard & Karlyne]

Now!! Now!! ...... Boys!
I just wanted to say "THANKS" to all of you have helped me when I needed it.

Richard

"Douglas Wilson" > wrote in message
...
> The responses to questions and/or problems on this forum sometime leave a
> lot to be desired. While some of the queries may seem to be 'dumb' at
times
> and may irritate experienced computer users, a little courtesy and
patience
> would go a long way. Everyone has to start somewhere, and whether some are
> switching to Win XP because of Microsoft support policies, or have
purchased
> new systems and are hopelessly lost, please give them a break.
>
> Jumping on users who SHOUT or don't spica duh english too well are not
> helpful.
>
> Hats off to those who volunteer their time and expertise for the overall
> betterment of the computing community.
>
> Just my two cents worth.
>
> DRW
>
>

[Kent W. England [MVP]]

Sharon;

Here is my glossary of newsreader types (the human kind):

The genuine newbie: doesn't know enough about computers to phrase the
question right the first time, but usually very appreciative of
criticism and often learns fast. Genuine newbies are OK with me.

The non-English speaker: doesn't know enough about English to be able to
say what she means to say, but usually appreciative of any
interpretation of the question and often willing to rephrase until
comprehensible. I like non-English speakers just fine.

The lamer gamer: knows everything about computers and games, but isn't
the least bit interested in spelling or comprehension. Often impatient
when you don't understand their twisted grammar and spelling. I don't
like lamer gamers, especially when they complain about not getting
answers. :-)

The outright troller: doesn't try to hide -- he needs attention and will
do anything to get it. Trollers don't get responses from me.

Lurkers: are no bother -- we don't even know they are there! :-)

The CDO newbie: doesn't know about computers and doesn't know that he
can't use the web interface to get any help. I feel sorry for
CDO-newbies, but since they can't ever find your responses, there isn't
much point in following up. :-(

The fraudulent newbie: this guy (it's always a guy) knows the answer to
his question, but he wants show-up an MVP, so he words the question to
mislead the reader into offering the simplest answer first. Trys to
sound like a newbie when posting and then jumps all over the obvious,
but wrong, first answer. Always gives himself away by eventually
revealing the answer to his own question.

Is it any wonder that we can't please all the people all the time when
we live in this zoo of crazy people??? :-)

I think folks should put their type in their signatures: newbie, ESL,
lamergamer, troller, or fake-newbie. Lurkers don't have to bother. :-)
And CDO newbies can be found out with a Ctl-F3. ;-)

--
Kent W. England, Microsoft MVP for Windows

(Disclaimer: contains copious amounts of humor. If you are humorless and
wish to remain that way, don't read or respond to this post.)

"Sharon F" > wrote in
message ...
>
> The flip side is that it is sometimes difficult to write responses
without
> knowing a person's level of ability. ...
>

[Jon]

"Kent W. England [MVP]" > wrote in message =
...
>=20
> The fraudulent newbie: this guy (it's always a guy) knows the answer =
to
> his question, but he wants show-up an MVP, so he words the question to
> mislead the reader into offering the simplest answer first. Trys to
> sound like a newbie when posting and then jumps all over the obvious,
> but wrong, first answer. Always gives himself away by eventually
> revealing the answer to his own question.

How do you know it's a guy, even if you can view the message properties? =
Even if the person gave themselves a typically male name, it is no =
guarantee that it is a male. Most of whom you describe in what you say =
"fraudulent newbies", would be more inclined to hide their true being by =
posing as someone totally unexpected. I agree with your other =
descriptions, but this one is way too presumptuous to be a fact of the =
matter, since you claim this absolutely without visual indentification.

[Sharon F]

CDO newbies have my greatest sympathy. They make it all the way to the
newsgroups searching for help and then run smack into a wall. Until the web
interfrace for these groups works reliably and until the main page explains
loud and clear how to read replies, they are doing the best they can in a
very disadvantageous position.

--
Sharon F
Microsoft MVP, Windows - Shell/User


Kent W. England [MVP] wrote:
> Sharon;
>
> Here is my glossary of newsreader types (the human kind):
>
> The genuine newbie: doesn't know enough about computers to phrase the
> question right the first time, but usually very appreciative of
> criticism and often learns fast. Genuine newbies are OK with me.
>
> The non-English speaker: doesn't know enough about English to be able to
> say what she means to say, but usually appreciative of any
> interpretation of the question and often willing to rephrase until
> comprehensible. I like non-English speakers just fine.
>
> The lamer gamer: knows everything about computers and games, but isn't
> the least bit interested in spelling or comprehension. Often impatient
> when you don't understand their twisted grammar and spelling. I don't
> like lamer gamers, especially when they complain about not getting
> answers. :-)
>
> The outright troller: doesn't try to hide -- he needs attention and will
> do anything to get it. Trollers don't get responses from me.
>
> Lurkers: are no bother -- we don't even know they are there! :-)
>
> The CDO newbie: doesn't know about computers and doesn't know that he
> can't use the web interface to get any help. I feel sorry for
> CDO-newbies, but since they can't ever find your responses, there isn't
> much point in following up. :-(
>
> The fraudulent newbie: this guy (it's always a guy) knows the answer to
> his question, but he wants show-up an MVP, so he words the question to
> mislead the reader into offering the simplest answer first. Trys to
> sound like a newbie when posting and then jumps all over the obvious,
> but wrong, first answer. Always gives himself away by eventually
> revealing the answer to his own question.
>
> Is it any wonder that we can't please all the people all the time when
> we live in this zoo of crazy people??? :-)
>
> I think folks should put their type in their signatures: newbie, ESL,
> lamergamer, troller, or fake-newbie. Lurkers don't have to bother. :-)
> And CDO newbies can be found out with a Ctl-F3. ;-)
>
> --
> Kent W. England, Microsoft MVP for Windows
>
> (Disclaimer: contains copious amounts of humor. If you are humorless and
> wish to remain that way, don't read or respond to this post.)
>
> "Sharon F" > wrote in
> message ...
>>
>> The flip side is that it is sometimes difficult to write responses
without
>> knowing a person's level of ability. ...

[Kelly]

Very well said, Kent. Not too such about the "guy" mention though. :o)

--
All the Best,
Kelly

MS-MVP Win98/XP
[AE-Windows® XP]

Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com

Top 10 Frequently Asked Questions and Answers
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/top10faqs.htm


"Kent W. England [MVP]" > wrote in message
...
> Sharon;
>
> Here is my glossary of newsreader types (the human kind):
>
> The genuine newbie: doesn't know enough about computers to phrase the
> question right the first time, but usually very appreciative of
> criticism and often learns fast. Genuine newbies are OK with me.
>
> The non-English speaker: doesn't know enough about English to be able to
> say what she means to say, but usually appreciative of any
> interpretation of the question and often willing to rephrase until
> comprehensible. I like non-English speakers just fine.
>
> The lamer gamer: knows everything about computers and games, but isn't
> the least bit interested in spelling or comprehension. Often impatient
> when you don't understand their twisted grammar and spelling. I don't
> like lamer gamers, especially when they complain about not getting
> answers. :-)
>
> The outright troller: doesn't try to hide -- he needs attention and will
> do anything to get it. Trollers don't get responses from me.
>
> Lurkers: are no bother -- we don't even know they are there! :-)
>
> The CDO newbie: doesn't know about computers and doesn't know that he
> can't use the web interface to get any help. I feel sorry for
> CDO-newbies, but since they can't ever find your responses, there isn't
> much point in following up. :-(
>
> The fraudulent newbie: this guy (it's always a guy) knows the answer to
> his question, but he wants show-up an MVP, so he words the question to
> mislead the reader into offering the simplest answer first. Trys to
> sound like a newbie when posting and then jumps all over the obvious,
> but wrong, first answer. Always gives himself away by eventually
> revealing the answer to his own question.
>
> Is it any wonder that we can't please all the people all the time when
> we live in this zoo of crazy people??? :-)
>
> I think folks should put their type in their signatures: newbie, ESL,
> lamergamer, troller, or fake-newbie. Lurkers don't have to bother. :-)
> And CDO newbies can be found out with a Ctl-F3. ;-)
>
> --
> Kent W. England, Microsoft MVP for Windows
>
> (Disclaimer: contains copious amounts of humor. If you are humorless and
> wish to remain that way, don't read or respond to this post.)
>
> "Sharon F" > wrote in
> message ...
> >
> > The flip side is that it is sometimes difficult to write responses
> without
> > knowing a person's level of ability. ...
> >
>

[Kent W. England [MVP]]

That reminds me of another type, the humorless retorter.

--
Kent

"Jon" > wrote in
message ...

"Kent W. England [MVP]" > wrote in message
...
>
> The fraudulent newbie: this guy (it's always a guy) knows the answer
to
> his question, but he wants show-up an MVP, so he words the question to
> mislead the reader into offering the simplest answer first. Trys to
> sound like a newbie when posting and then jumps all over the obvious,
> but wrong, first answer. Always gives himself away by eventually
> revealing the answer to his own question.

How do you know it's a guy, even if you can view the message properties?
Even if the person gave themselves a typically male name, it is no
guarantee that it is a male. Most of whom you describe in what you say
"fraudulent newbies", would be more inclined to hide their true being by
posing as someone totally unexpected. I agree with your other
descriptions, but this one is way too presumptuous to be a fact of the
matter, since you claim this absolutely without visual indentification.

[Jon]

LOL,

While my query was serious to you, you cop out with a lame "lack of =
humor" reply. But I will note in your "fraudulent newbie" description, =
about trying to show up MVPs; well that isn't too hard anyway. But it's =
interesting humor how one MVP somehow feels bulletproof with those =
intials behind posting some of the same bull that he accuses the frauds =
of doing.

"Kent W. England [MVP]" > wrote in message =
...
> That reminds me of another type, the humorless retorter.
>=20
> --=20
> Kent
>=20
> "Jon" > wrote in
> message ...
>=20
> "Kent W. England [MVP]" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > The fraudulent newbie: this guy (it's always a guy) knows the answer
> to
> > his question, but he wants show-up an MVP, so he words the question =
to
> > mislead the reader into offering the simplest answer first. Trys to
> > sound like a newbie when posting and then jumps all over the =
obvious,
> > but wrong, first answer. Always gives himself away by eventually
> > revealing the answer to his own question.
>=20
> How do you know it's a guy, even if you can view the message =
properties?
> Even if the person gave themselves a typically male name, it is no
> guarantee that it is a male. Most of whom you describe in what you say
> "fraudulent newbies", would be more inclined to hide their true being =
by
> posing as someone totally unexpected. I agree with your other
> descriptions, but this one is way too presumptuous to be a fact of the
> matter, since you claim this absolutely without visual =
indentification.
>