G.Danes
December 7th 03, 02:04 AM
I'm confused a little. Talking two totally different issues in this post.
One is correct, the other is the challenge as I understand it.
Yes you can run TS client on most anything. TS can run as a client or
simply in an Internet browser albeit not sure how far down the browser
support goes, would think 5.x.
PDA clients are old news (been in the works for sometime) and would assume
same client or even spin-off will eventually work with mobile/cell phones
that take pictures and all. Still not the point of this discussion.
If your taking his/her challenge to install XP on a 486 and having it work
correctly were it's functional beyond being an XP logo picture on a screen,
NOT a remote session of XP but installed and fully functional, I think
that's the challenge.
Like you, I also have 25 years and I believe as you do in getting the most
out of old equipment. Can easily make them print servers, fax server or
anything else since quote "Server" as you and I both know is not about the
machine as it is the application. Some tend to think when they hear Server,
it means some high end hardware where it's the application that makes it a
server. Many uses for older equipment and if nothing else, YOU made others
aware of uses for those old machines.
Getting XP to run properly on 486 or older system is crazy. Can it be done,
sure. ALL RULES GET BROKEN but some are more insane than others and not
worth the effort. People using 95 (dates the hardware) struggle with
getting XP to run properly. They have to track down drivers from
manufacturers, do repair installs, get BSODs, IRQ Equal to errors etc..
They go insane and most opt to go back to 95 or just upgrade to 98. I'm not
implying nobody was successful but it was a headache for them with 95 since
the hardware is generally older than those using 98...
Now we talk of 486's, remember more legacy issues down to chipsets. What
PnP you had is outdated and not supported as well. Most manufacturers will
not go back and support something so outdated so attempting to get XP to
install locally and function properly is a very real challenge. I doubt you
could do it without popping back in here under another assumed name asking
for help. I may have missed something and I apologize if I did but I think
that's the challenge. Not running XP in a remote session.
If you want to get down to it, you could probably in theory still run a real
dumb terminal with an Arcnet Boot prom, run WFW 3.x off a server, grab
local internet connection off server and do remote session with an XP or 2k
machine then view at dumb terminal via arcnet, but why? Maybe someday as
you said, some programmer will right a small enough client that it may even
fit on to a bootprom, but again why? This still doesn't address the
challenge just side-tracked with your conversion about
Reason I'm confused is you spoke of remote sessions which made sense, (you
can use older machines and OS to have a remote session of XP) but then you
said
"On these machines I can run XP. even if it means installing xp on another
machine so the installation will be faster and then placing the drive on the
486".
Not only will it fail when it polls for votes (examining your previous
hardware), it's going to freak when it gets to those old chipsets not to
mention other legacy or unsupported PnP devices from 199x... No sooner than
you think you have it working, BSOD. I think that's the challenge?
The only clarification I see made from Cassandra's to your's is you don't
need XP on both systems to do remote desktop. I'll add another, you can
exceed 64 megs on a 486 and many boards had 4 slots for RAM. None of this
will change anything though... It still leaves the challenge. Can you
install XP on 486, sure, will it work correctly, doub't it. You would end
up spending more time on this board looking for answers to get things to
work as they should.
Unrelated but just on another comment you made, I thought WFW was the last
OS that recommended 4 megs RAM minimum. Thought 95 was 8, 98 was 16. Most
users would double that for performance. Maybe I'm mistaken, age does that
I guess.. ;c)
JMT....
GD
"Knight" > wrote in message
...
: I replied to your challenge... please read the post about running XP on a
: 486.
: Not only that.... I state there that you can use XP on a far less
powerfull
: machine.
: Cassandra not only cant you see the future... but is seems you have
: forgotten the past.
: There is no future without a past.
:
: Here is your grand challenge....
:
: >I challenge you to install XP on a 486 SX (no wait, I'll be kind) DX-66.
Do
: >post back, I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd be fascinated to hear
: whether
: >you achieve this.
:
: You forget that you can do much with very little if you know how to use
: things in a smart way.
:
:
: ______ reposting my reply to you for quick reference_________________
:
: Kenny said...
:
:
: Unfortunately you are totally incorrect about everything. And I am
sober...
: and correct of course.
: Keep reading and you will see that not only do I take up your challenge
but
: get away with FAR less computer power!
: How much less.... you will see.... stay with me and be amazed :-)
:
: >Of course you'll have XP on your desktop - on the system you installed it
: on. You need XP installed on both systems for remote desktop to work -
and,
: as a 486 can only just run 95, you might want to rethink that statement.
:
: ------Totally wrong, an MVP will explain this to you. You can run a
remote
: desktop CLIENT on any 32 bit windows platform.
:
:
: >we're going back a while so my memory may be a little hazy). I also
: never saw a 486 motherboard with more than two RAM slots (there my have
been
: some that had four, but I don't recall any). Now, do tell me how you put
: 64MB into a 486?
:
: ----Wrong again... you COULD have 486 running @ 120 Mhz with 64 mb ram,
This
: is equivalent to a Pentium 75.
:
: As you can see from another poster...
:
: > > Actually, Packard Bell once made a 486DX2 66 MHz machine that had
: > > 6 SIMM slots. And 72-pin SIMMs were available in sizes up to at least
: > > 32 Mb, that I recall using. ;-}
:
:
: -->I challenge you to install XP on a 486 SX (no wait, I'll be kind)
DX-66.
: Do
: post back, I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd be fascinated to hear
whether
: you achieve this.
:
: I never said the nature of the 486. I meant the fastest available 486 in
the
: market that was then @100 mhz, 120 Mhz and I think the last one was at a
: whooping 133 mhz. On these machines I can run XP. even if it means
: installing xp on another machine so the installation will be faster and
then
: placing the drive on the 486.
:
: Nevertheless you can run windows 95 and the remote desktop client on a 386
: (because it is
: 32 bit) and with 8 mb ram (this is what win95 needs to run). If you have
: remote desktop you can log onto XP, windows2000, or even windows 2003 that
: has very advanced terminal services.
: You know what else you can do? You can run a remote client on a 386 with
: windows 95 and 4 mb of ram, by having 8 mb during the installation of
win95
: and then REMOVING the other 4.
: So this is the smallest limit for a computer that is running WINDOWS
remote
: desktop client. BUT noone says that you cannot create a remote desktop for
: older machines.
: There are some programmers that have created such software for the
AMIGA....
: that computer has 500k and 4mhz (I think CPU).
: You can probably go even lower..... I dare say a spectrum. Yes... there
: might be a genius programmer out there that can create a client for
windows
: terminal servers that can fit into 48kb ram (the spectrum I think ran at 2
: mhz, I still have one). Of course you will have color and resolution
: limitations.... but you will still be able to control thus RUN xp from
that
: machine.
:
: Ok here is the point where you think I am crazy.....that I am talking
about
: 25 year old technology... and that all this is useless.
:
: DO you think that the creators of THIS:
: http://www.thinsoftinc.com/products_winconnectz_info.html
: were not thinking about everything I have said here?
:
: Yes let your eyes feast on this.... running XP on a PDA!!!
:
: Bruce are you with me???
:
: Bruce, I have invited Kelly (MVP) to participate in a new site I am
: making... I
: would be honored if you could post some things there from time to time,
: perhaps include some content in a newsletter? The Url will be
: www.computerboom.net .
: I would like to have some MVPs aboard, kinda make it a friendly meeting
: place for the masters of XP and a place where people can find useful info.
:
: What do you say?
:
:
: Kenny.... www.computerboom.net coming shortly stay tuned
:
: :-)
:
:
: And my LAST comment is this....
:
:
: .....Creativity is intelligence having fun !.....;-)
:
: For the ones reading technical replies, I would kindly request them to
give
: me their feedback with another post (in the same thread of course), so I
: will know if my advice helped them or not.
:
: Kenny S www.talentgrid.com
: www.computerboom.net
:
:
: "Amethyst" > wrote in message
: ...
: > Knight wrote:
: > > I dont like your attitude.
: > > You can run a remote desktop connection from a 486, to an XP pro
: computer.
: > > Thus you will actually have XP on your desktop.
: > >
: > > A 486 CAN run XP if it has enough ram. It will work very slow but that
: is
: > > not YOUR problem is it?
: > >
: > > If you cant give advice just dont say anything.
: >
: > You've been hitting the liquor mighty hard haven't you?! Do you actually
: > know what the blibbins you're blathering on about? Do you actually know
: what
: > the minimum requirements for XP are? A 486 is barely capable of running
: 98,
: > let alone XP!
: >
: > Of course you'll have XP on your desktop - on the system you installed
it
: > on. You need XP installed on both systems for remote desktop to work -
: and,
: > as a 486 can only just run 95, you might want to rethink that statement.
: >
: > Now, those minimum specs: -
: >
: > a.. PC with 300 megahertz or higher processor clock speed recommended;
: 233
: > MHz minimum required (single or dual processor system);* Intel
: > Pentium/Celeron family, or AMD K6/Athlon/Duron family, or compatible
: > processor recommended
: > b.. 128 megabytes (MB) of RAM or higher recommended (64 MB minimum
: > supported; may limit performance and some features)
: > c.. 1.5 gigabytes (GB) of available hard disk space*
: > d.. Super VGA (800 × 600) or higher-resolution video adapter and
monitor
: > e.. CD-ROM or DVD drive
: > f.. Keyboard and Microsoft Mouse or compatible pointing device
: > I don't recall ever seeing a 486 a) with a 300MHz clock and b) called a
: > 'Pentium'.
: >
: > A 486 took SIMMs which had to be installed in pairs. They didn't, IIRC,
: come
: > in sizes any bigger than 8MB and the motherboard could only recognise
: about
: > 32MB (we're going back a while so my memory may be a little hazy). I
also
: > never saw a 486 motherboard with more than two RAM slots (there my have
: been
: > some that had four, but I don't recall any). Now, do tell me how you put
: > 64MB into a 486?
: >
: > I challenge you to install XP on a 486 SX (no wait, I'll be kind) DX-66.
: Do
: > post back, I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd be fascinated to hear
: whether
: > you achieve this.
: >
: > --
: > Cassandra
: > Card carrying member of the Fresh Start Club 'The Undead Are People
Too!'
: >
: > Reply address is fake. Please send all praise, abuse, insults, bequests
: > of £1million to cassandra (at) craigy34 (dot) freeserve (dot) co (dot)
: > uk. Change the obvious to the obvious.
: > Private requests for assistance will not be acknowledged. Please post
all
: > correspondence to the group so that all may benefit. Thank you.
: >
: >
:
:
: ---
: Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
: Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 10/6/2003
:
:
:
: .....Creativity is intelligence having fun !.....;-)
:
: For the ones reading technical replies, I would kindly request them to
give
: me their feedback with another post (in the same thread of course), so I
: will know if my advice helped them or not.
:
: Kenny S www.talentgrid.com
: www.computerboom.net
:
:
:
One is correct, the other is the challenge as I understand it.
Yes you can run TS client on most anything. TS can run as a client or
simply in an Internet browser albeit not sure how far down the browser
support goes, would think 5.x.
PDA clients are old news (been in the works for sometime) and would assume
same client or even spin-off will eventually work with mobile/cell phones
that take pictures and all. Still not the point of this discussion.
If your taking his/her challenge to install XP on a 486 and having it work
correctly were it's functional beyond being an XP logo picture on a screen,
NOT a remote session of XP but installed and fully functional, I think
that's the challenge.
Like you, I also have 25 years and I believe as you do in getting the most
out of old equipment. Can easily make them print servers, fax server or
anything else since quote "Server" as you and I both know is not about the
machine as it is the application. Some tend to think when they hear Server,
it means some high end hardware where it's the application that makes it a
server. Many uses for older equipment and if nothing else, YOU made others
aware of uses for those old machines.
Getting XP to run properly on 486 or older system is crazy. Can it be done,
sure. ALL RULES GET BROKEN but some are more insane than others and not
worth the effort. People using 95 (dates the hardware) struggle with
getting XP to run properly. They have to track down drivers from
manufacturers, do repair installs, get BSODs, IRQ Equal to errors etc..
They go insane and most opt to go back to 95 or just upgrade to 98. I'm not
implying nobody was successful but it was a headache for them with 95 since
the hardware is generally older than those using 98...
Now we talk of 486's, remember more legacy issues down to chipsets. What
PnP you had is outdated and not supported as well. Most manufacturers will
not go back and support something so outdated so attempting to get XP to
install locally and function properly is a very real challenge. I doubt you
could do it without popping back in here under another assumed name asking
for help. I may have missed something and I apologize if I did but I think
that's the challenge. Not running XP in a remote session.
If you want to get down to it, you could probably in theory still run a real
dumb terminal with an Arcnet Boot prom, run WFW 3.x off a server, grab
local internet connection off server and do remote session with an XP or 2k
machine then view at dumb terminal via arcnet, but why? Maybe someday as
you said, some programmer will right a small enough client that it may even
fit on to a bootprom, but again why? This still doesn't address the
challenge just side-tracked with your conversion about
Reason I'm confused is you spoke of remote sessions which made sense, (you
can use older machines and OS to have a remote session of XP) but then you
said
"On these machines I can run XP. even if it means installing xp on another
machine so the installation will be faster and then placing the drive on the
486".
Not only will it fail when it polls for votes (examining your previous
hardware), it's going to freak when it gets to those old chipsets not to
mention other legacy or unsupported PnP devices from 199x... No sooner than
you think you have it working, BSOD. I think that's the challenge?
The only clarification I see made from Cassandra's to your's is you don't
need XP on both systems to do remote desktop. I'll add another, you can
exceed 64 megs on a 486 and many boards had 4 slots for RAM. None of this
will change anything though... It still leaves the challenge. Can you
install XP on 486, sure, will it work correctly, doub't it. You would end
up spending more time on this board looking for answers to get things to
work as they should.
Unrelated but just on another comment you made, I thought WFW was the last
OS that recommended 4 megs RAM minimum. Thought 95 was 8, 98 was 16. Most
users would double that for performance. Maybe I'm mistaken, age does that
I guess.. ;c)
JMT....
GD
"Knight" > wrote in message
...
: I replied to your challenge... please read the post about running XP on a
: 486.
: Not only that.... I state there that you can use XP on a far less
powerfull
: machine.
: Cassandra not only cant you see the future... but is seems you have
: forgotten the past.
: There is no future without a past.
:
: Here is your grand challenge....
:
: >I challenge you to install XP on a 486 SX (no wait, I'll be kind) DX-66.
Do
: >post back, I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd be fascinated to hear
: whether
: >you achieve this.
:
: You forget that you can do much with very little if you know how to use
: things in a smart way.
:
:
: ______ reposting my reply to you for quick reference_________________
:
: Kenny said...
:
:
: Unfortunately you are totally incorrect about everything. And I am
sober...
: and correct of course.
: Keep reading and you will see that not only do I take up your challenge
but
: get away with FAR less computer power!
: How much less.... you will see.... stay with me and be amazed :-)
:
: >Of course you'll have XP on your desktop - on the system you installed it
: on. You need XP installed on both systems for remote desktop to work -
and,
: as a 486 can only just run 95, you might want to rethink that statement.
:
: ------Totally wrong, an MVP will explain this to you. You can run a
remote
: desktop CLIENT on any 32 bit windows platform.
:
:
: >we're going back a while so my memory may be a little hazy). I also
: never saw a 486 motherboard with more than two RAM slots (there my have
been
: some that had four, but I don't recall any). Now, do tell me how you put
: 64MB into a 486?
:
: ----Wrong again... you COULD have 486 running @ 120 Mhz with 64 mb ram,
This
: is equivalent to a Pentium 75.
:
: As you can see from another poster...
:
: > > Actually, Packard Bell once made a 486DX2 66 MHz machine that had
: > > 6 SIMM slots. And 72-pin SIMMs were available in sizes up to at least
: > > 32 Mb, that I recall using. ;-}
:
:
: -->I challenge you to install XP on a 486 SX (no wait, I'll be kind)
DX-66.
: Do
: post back, I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd be fascinated to hear
whether
: you achieve this.
:
: I never said the nature of the 486. I meant the fastest available 486 in
the
: market that was then @100 mhz, 120 Mhz and I think the last one was at a
: whooping 133 mhz. On these machines I can run XP. even if it means
: installing xp on another machine so the installation will be faster and
then
: placing the drive on the 486.
:
: Nevertheless you can run windows 95 and the remote desktop client on a 386
: (because it is
: 32 bit) and with 8 mb ram (this is what win95 needs to run). If you have
: remote desktop you can log onto XP, windows2000, or even windows 2003 that
: has very advanced terminal services.
: You know what else you can do? You can run a remote client on a 386 with
: windows 95 and 4 mb of ram, by having 8 mb during the installation of
win95
: and then REMOVING the other 4.
: So this is the smallest limit for a computer that is running WINDOWS
remote
: desktop client. BUT noone says that you cannot create a remote desktop for
: older machines.
: There are some programmers that have created such software for the
AMIGA....
: that computer has 500k and 4mhz (I think CPU).
: You can probably go even lower..... I dare say a spectrum. Yes... there
: might be a genius programmer out there that can create a client for
windows
: terminal servers that can fit into 48kb ram (the spectrum I think ran at 2
: mhz, I still have one). Of course you will have color and resolution
: limitations.... but you will still be able to control thus RUN xp from
that
: machine.
:
: Ok here is the point where you think I am crazy.....that I am talking
about
: 25 year old technology... and that all this is useless.
:
: DO you think that the creators of THIS:
: http://www.thinsoftinc.com/products_winconnectz_info.html
: were not thinking about everything I have said here?
:
: Yes let your eyes feast on this.... running XP on a PDA!!!
:
: Bruce are you with me???
:
: Bruce, I have invited Kelly (MVP) to participate in a new site I am
: making... I
: would be honored if you could post some things there from time to time,
: perhaps include some content in a newsletter? The Url will be
: www.computerboom.net .
: I would like to have some MVPs aboard, kinda make it a friendly meeting
: place for the masters of XP and a place where people can find useful info.
:
: What do you say?
:
:
: Kenny.... www.computerboom.net coming shortly stay tuned
:
: :-)
:
:
: And my LAST comment is this....
:
:
: .....Creativity is intelligence having fun !.....;-)
:
: For the ones reading technical replies, I would kindly request them to
give
: me their feedback with another post (in the same thread of course), so I
: will know if my advice helped them or not.
:
: Kenny S www.talentgrid.com
: www.computerboom.net
:
:
: "Amethyst" > wrote in message
: ...
: > Knight wrote:
: > > I dont like your attitude.
: > > You can run a remote desktop connection from a 486, to an XP pro
: computer.
: > > Thus you will actually have XP on your desktop.
: > >
: > > A 486 CAN run XP if it has enough ram. It will work very slow but that
: is
: > > not YOUR problem is it?
: > >
: > > If you cant give advice just dont say anything.
: >
: > You've been hitting the liquor mighty hard haven't you?! Do you actually
: > know what the blibbins you're blathering on about? Do you actually know
: what
: > the minimum requirements for XP are? A 486 is barely capable of running
: 98,
: > let alone XP!
: >
: > Of course you'll have XP on your desktop - on the system you installed
it
: > on. You need XP installed on both systems for remote desktop to work -
: and,
: > as a 486 can only just run 95, you might want to rethink that statement.
: >
: > Now, those minimum specs: -
: >
: > a.. PC with 300 megahertz or higher processor clock speed recommended;
: 233
: > MHz minimum required (single or dual processor system);* Intel
: > Pentium/Celeron family, or AMD K6/Athlon/Duron family, or compatible
: > processor recommended
: > b.. 128 megabytes (MB) of RAM or higher recommended (64 MB minimum
: > supported; may limit performance and some features)
: > c.. 1.5 gigabytes (GB) of available hard disk space*
: > d.. Super VGA (800 × 600) or higher-resolution video adapter and
monitor
: > e.. CD-ROM or DVD drive
: > f.. Keyboard and Microsoft Mouse or compatible pointing device
: > I don't recall ever seeing a 486 a) with a 300MHz clock and b) called a
: > 'Pentium'.
: >
: > A 486 took SIMMs which had to be installed in pairs. They didn't, IIRC,
: come
: > in sizes any bigger than 8MB and the motherboard could only recognise
: about
: > 32MB (we're going back a while so my memory may be a little hazy). I
also
: > never saw a 486 motherboard with more than two RAM slots (there my have
: been
: > some that had four, but I don't recall any). Now, do tell me how you put
: > 64MB into a 486?
: >
: > I challenge you to install XP on a 486 SX (no wait, I'll be kind) DX-66.
: Do
: > post back, I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd be fascinated to hear
: whether
: > you achieve this.
: >
: > --
: > Cassandra
: > Card carrying member of the Fresh Start Club 'The Undead Are People
Too!'
: >
: > Reply address is fake. Please send all praise, abuse, insults, bequests
: > of £1million to cassandra (at) craigy34 (dot) freeserve (dot) co (dot)
: > uk. Change the obvious to the obvious.
: > Private requests for assistance will not be acknowledged. Please post
all
: > correspondence to the group so that all may benefit. Thank you.
: >
: >
:
:
: ---
: Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
: Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 10/6/2003
:
:
:
: .....Creativity is intelligence having fun !.....;-)
:
: For the ones reading technical replies, I would kindly request them to
give
: me their feedback with another post (in the same thread of course), so I
: will know if my advice helped them or not.
:
: Kenny S www.talentgrid.com
: www.computerboom.net
:
:
: