Thermaltake Volcano CPU Fan and my work-around

[Lawrence]

I haven't found anything similar to my following post yet.... looking for
educated opinions....

Here's what happened -
I shut off my PC for the first time in months and months the other day to
accommodate some furniture re-arrangements.
The machine was off all night. The next morning, I reconnected things, and
turned it on. Everything came up just fine, I checked my email, then left
the computer and went about putting furniture pieces back in their
places.... After a few moments, I noticed an odor, like hot dust... which
slowly turned into a stinky plasticy smell....

As the only thing powered up, was my computer, I checked things out (using
PC Alert: temp, cpu fan RPMs, etc.) and things looked ok. But that stinky
smell never means anything good when electronics are involved, so I shut
things down, and took off my chassis cover to inspect the innards of the PC.
No loose wires, no melted plastic, nothing. Just that (by now) pungent
stink.

With the cover off, I turned on the machine and watched the PSU, GPU, and
CPU fans all spin up. Windows XP booted fine again, but after a moment or
so, I noticed the Thermaltake Volcano 7+ fan slow, then stop, then just sort
of twitter. PC Alert kicked in, and reported the CPU fan RPMs at 0, and
sounded the audio alarm. (Nice to know that the software and sensor actually
works! - Although it sounded like a car alarm, and had I not been right at
my PC, I would have thought it was just that, and probably not been worried
that my CPU was at risk of frying. I think I am gonna change the wave file
that plays... -FYI)

Needless to say, a lot of cussing, and troubleshooting ensued...
Here is my 'solution' to get things going without replacing any hardware
(yet):

There were two leads from the Thermaltake 1) has just the sensor wire, and
was plugged into a 3-pinned JP site on my motherboard, 2) had just 12+ volt
and 1 ground (in a 3-holed housing), and adapted to one of the many power
supply leads (I tried moving it around to several different leads, but the
fan would always shut off after a few moments).

Then, with the computer on, I simply unplugged the power lead to the fan,
and plugged it back in... the fan would work for 10 or 15 seconds then stop
and twitter.... unplug then plug back in... start, stop, and twitter...
consistently.

I carefully read my manual, and cruised MSI's site for any info regarding
the (thankfully) redundant option of connecting the CPU fan directly to the
motherboard, and found no indication that there were any issues with doing
this. I cruised Thermaltake's website and found it to frustratingly bereft
of any decent troubleshooting steps, or signs and symptoms of problems. It
was no help whatsoever.

So, going with the notion that there was something screwy with the what
controls output to the power supply leads for internal devices, I carefully
removed the single sensor wire from its housing, and inserted it into the
empty one on the 2-wire fan-power housing, then plugged it into the CPU fan
JP site on the motherboard.

It worked! Great! I have been putting the machine through its paces for
the last couple of days without ANY failures: Unreal Tournament, Unreal II,
Nvidia Earthviewer, Sisoft Benchmarks, and FutureMark's Benchmark. All with
smooth sailing.


I am supposing that I should consider replacing my power supply....
[it is ample on paper, but it is supporting the following:]
AMD 1700+ OCed to 1900+
MSI Motherboard (ms-6380)
1 Gig DDR RAM
2 Hard drives
DVD Drive
CD-RW Drive
A seldom used floppy drive
Win TV Card
Geforce MX 440
NIC card for DSL
56k Fax/Modem
6 USB ports of which I use 3
2 9-pin serial ports of which I use one
1 game port of which I use one for MIDI


In general, it has been my experience that the Power Supply is more
susceptible to damage than internal components, as it is on the 'front line'
because it is connected to the power source. Of course, that is assuming
that you have cooling, and a decent case, and stable hardware inside to
begin with.

Sorry for a long-winded post.... But I am curious what others think about
my situation. The only times I have ever had problems with computers of
this magnitude, it has been when I turned them on from a cold state- not
while they are already running... that's the main reason I keep mine on all
the time. You typically only see lightbulbs blow when you turn them on,
too.... very rarely will one fail after being on for hours.... cold metal
wire infused with structure-buckling electrons..... and that's when
something with no moving parts can break.

Thanks in advance for ideas, warnings, and suggestions.
-Lawrence

[Paul]

Lawrence,
If I am understanding you correctly, you are plugging the fan directly into the
motherboard for the 12V power supply? If this is the case, have you double
checked to see what the power rating of that connection is? My motherboard
states it can only support a fan drawing up to 350mA. The Volcano 7+ can draw
up to 1+ Amps.

If you are plugging the fan directly into the 4-pin drive power connection, how
can you stand the load noise? I have my Volcano 7+ plugged into the resistor
divider (known as the speed control) and am running it in slow speed to keep the
noise level down.

As far as the 10 to 15 second and then spin down goes, the plug itself my have a
bad or corroded contact. I had a situation with a 4-pin drive splitter that
would intermittently cause a loss of continuity and the drive would spin down
and be unavailable until I rebooted. It took me a while to find it because the
action of taken the side cover off the tower would giggle the connector and
power would be reapplied.

Lastly, this type of problem would probably have been more suited for the MSI
mainboard NG since this the fan does not pertain to XP in any way.

Paul
P.S. I am snip your original message out from my reply for brevity
-- snip --

[Lawrence]

Hi Paul, et al.

I'll keep this brief, since I posed it in the wrong NG....

I have plugged the fan into the CPU fan (3-pin) jumper labeled on the mobo -
as opposed to using the adapter to the 4-pin drive connector. Yes. I am
using the motherboard's designated site for power and sensor.

The previous connection - per Thermaltake's instructions *was* via an
adapter, through the 4-pin drive connector, with the lone sensor wire going
to the CPU fan sensor pin.

As regards possible contact corrosion, I am going to log off now, and look
for that.... but I think I gave things a pretty thorough going over while
trying to identify the problem originally, prior to trying what I eventually
did.

If I find anything new, I'll post one last note here in this NG, regarding
it.

Thanks for the info, though.
-L


"Paul" > wrote in message
...
> Lawrence,
> If I am understanding you correctly, you are plugging the fan directly
into the
> motherboard for the 12V power supply? If this is the case, have you
double
> checked to see what the power rating of that connection is? My
motherboard
> states it can only support a fan drawing up to 350mA. The Volcano 7+ can
draw
> up to 1+ Amps.
>
> If you are plugging the fan directly into the 4-pin drive power
connection, how
> can you stand the load noise? I have my Volcano 7+ plugged into the
resistor
> divider (known as the speed control) and am running it in slow speed to
keep the
> noise level down.
>
> As far as the 10 to 15 second and then spin down goes, the plug itself my
have a
> bad or corroded contact. I had a situation with a 4-pin drive splitter
that
> would intermittently cause a loss of continuity and the drive would spin
down
> and be unavailable until I rebooted. It took me a while to find it
because the
> action of taken the side cover off the tower would giggle the connector
and
> power would be reapplied.
>
> Lastly, this type of problem would probably have been more suited for the
MSI
> mainboard NG since this the fan does not pertain to XP in any way.
>
> Paul
> P.S. I am snip your original message out from my reply for brevity
> -- snip --
>
>

[Paul]

Xref: kermit microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware:145198

Personally, I would double check with MSI before leaving that large fan hooked
to the motherboard. I have checked a couple of my mobo's and neither support
the fan (I found the Thermaltake info for the fan and it states .55A--I thought
it was around 1.0A or so).

Paul

"Lawrence" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Paul, et al.
>
> I'll keep this brief, since I posed it in the wrong NG....
>
> I have plugged the fan into the CPU fan (3-pin) jumper labeled on the mobo -
> as opposed to using the adapter to the 4-pin drive connector. Yes. I am
> using the motherboard's designated site for power and sensor.
>
> The previous connection - per Thermaltake's instructions *was* via an
> adapter, through the 4-pin drive connector, with the lone sensor wire going
> to the CPU fan sensor pin.
>
> As regards possible contact corrosion, I am going to log off now, and look
> for that.... but I think I gave things a pretty thorough going over while
> trying to identify the problem originally, prior to trying what I eventually
> did.
>
> If I find anything new, I'll post one last note here in this NG, regarding
> it.
>
> Thanks for the info, though.
> -L
>
>
> "Paul" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Lawrence,
> > If I am understanding you correctly, you are plugging the fan directly
> into the
> > motherboard for the 12V power supply? If this is the case, have you
> double
> > checked to see what the power rating of that connection is? My
> motherboard
> > states it can only support a fan drawing up to 350mA. The Volcano 7+ can
> draw
> > up to 1+ Amps.
> >
> > If you are plugging the fan directly into the 4-pin drive power
> connection, how
> > can you stand the load noise? I have my Volcano 7+ plugged into the
> resistor
> > divider (known as the speed control) and am running it in slow speed to
> keep the
> > noise level down.
> >
> > As far as the 10 to 15 second and then spin down goes, the plug itself my
> have a
> > bad or corroded contact. I had a situation with a 4-pin drive splitter
> that
> > would intermittently cause a loss of continuity and the drive would spin
> down
> > and be unavailable until I rebooted. It took me a while to find it
> because the
> > action of taken the side cover off the tower would giggle the connector
> and
> > power would be reapplied.
> >
> > Lastly, this type of problem would probably have been more suited for the
> MSI
> > mainboard NG since this the fan does not pertain to XP in any way.
> >
> > Paul
> > P.S. I am snip your original message out from my reply for brevity
> > -- snip --
> >
> >
>
>

[Lawrence]

Hmmm... no corrosion... thoroughly searched....
I haven't found the Amp specs for the CPU Jumper in MSI land yet.
I am happy that things are stable, and working.... but I certainly don't
want a time-bomb.... It's clear that something went wrong somewhere.

Right now, the primary suspect is the Thermaltake... but I have no
Voltmeter, and nothing *looks* fried -- although I confess that I have NOT
removed the fan from the CPU.... I don't have any Thermal Grease to put back
on it.... soooooo.

Anyway, I agree with your cautionary tone. Just because you can stick a
fork in an outlet as long as you don't touch it, doesn't mean that you
should.....

I guess I'll take the box into my local vendor, and have them check things
out.....

Still, so far, no problems, no temperature spikes, and smoke... etc.

Thanks!

I'll try posing the question in a more MSI-related place.
-L

"Paul" > wrote in message
...
> Personally, I would double check with MSI before leaving that large fan
hooked
> to the motherboard. I have checked a couple of my mobo's and neither
support
> the fan (I found the Thermaltake info for the fan and it states .55A--I
thought
> it was around 1.0A or so).
>
> Paul
>
> "Lawrence" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi Paul, et al.
> >
> > I'll keep this brief, since I posed it in the wrong NG....
> >
> > I have plugged the fan into the CPU fan (3-pin) jumper labeled on the
mobo -
> > as opposed to using the adapter to the 4-pin drive connector. Yes. I am
> > using the motherboard's designated site for power and sensor.
> >
> > The previous connection - per Thermaltake's instructions *was* via an
> > adapter, through the 4-pin drive connector, with the lone sensor wire
going
> > to the CPU fan sensor pin.
> >
> > As regards possible contact corrosion, I am going to log off now, and
look
> > for that.... but I think I gave things a pretty thorough going over
while
> > trying to identify the problem originally, prior to trying what I
eventually
> > did.
> >
> > If I find anything new, I'll post one last note here in this NG,
regarding
> > it.
> >
> > Thanks for the info, though.
> > -L
> >
> >
> > "Paul" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Lawrence,
> > > If I am understanding you correctly, you are plugging the fan directly
> > into the
> > > motherboard for the 12V power supply? If this is the case, have you
> > double
> > > checked to see what the power rating of that connection is? My
> > motherboard
> > > states it can only support a fan drawing up to 350mA. The Volcano 7+
can
> > draw
> > > up to 1+ Amps.
> > >
> > > If you are plugging the fan directly into the 4-pin drive power
> > connection, how
> > > can you stand the load noise? I have my Volcano 7+ plugged into the
> > resistor
> > > divider (known as the speed control) and am running it in slow speed
to
> > keep the
> > > noise level down.
> > >
> > > As far as the 10 to 15 second and then spin down goes, the plug itself
my
> > have a
> > > bad or corroded contact. I had a situation with a 4-pin drive
splitter
> > that
> > > would intermittently cause a loss of continuity and the drive would
spin
> > down
> > > and be unavailable until I rebooted. It took me a while to find it
> > because the
> > > action of taken the side cover off the tower would giggle the
connector
> > and
> > > power would be reapplied.
> > >
> > > Lastly, this type of problem would probably have been more suited for
the
> > MSI
> > > mainboard NG since this the fan does not pertain to XP in any way.
> > >
> > > Paul
> > > P.S. I am snip your original message out from my reply for brevity
> > > -- snip --
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Lawrence]

Well crud....

I found the info. what I was looking for.... and although I am not happy
about it.... it makes more sense, now.

I found postings in *alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar* that roughly
pertained to me.

I do not have a Volcano 7+... I have a Volcano 7 (which has no manual speed
switch - which explains why I couldn't find a switch anywhere.) If I am
lucky, the CPU fan jumper I am using will last until tomorrow afternoon,
until I can get a new Volcano fan.

The rated consumption for my fan is .18 - .45amps, so hopefully I can keep
it on the low end of that range until the fan is replaced. I now think the
Temperature Control Sensor is what failed, based on what I've read.
http://www.thermaltake.com/heatsink/v7.htm

Funny... it hasn't peeped at all, and I have been hammering it for the last
few days, with the most intense games I've got. And it's been fine. Normal
temps... maybe I've just been lucky so far.

Thanks for the correspondance!
-Lawrence

[Murray McNeill]

I am very surprised that the header on the motherboard had enough power
to run the fan on a Volcano 7. The reason for the split connectors was
to give the fan the full power of a hard drive connector, yet still give
the motherboard the RPM signal it needs. I have read of people blowing
the CPU fan header on their systems, and being forced to run it the way
yours was originally wired.

Lawrence wrote:

> I haven't found anything similar to my following post yet.... looking for
> educated opinions....
>
> Here's what happened -
> I shut off my PC for the first time in months and months the other day to
> accommodate some furniture re-arrangements.
> The machine was off all night. The next morning, I reconnected things, and
> turned it on. Everything came up just fine, I checked my email, then left
> the computer and went about putting furniture pieces back in their
> places.... After a few moments, I noticed an odor, like hot dust... which
> slowly turned into a stinky plasticy smell....
>
> As the only thing powered up, was my computer, I checked things out (using
> PC Alert: temp, cpu fan RPMs, etc.) and things looked ok. But that stinky
> smell never means anything good when electronics are involved, so I shut
> things down, and took off my chassis cover to inspect the innards of the PC.
> No loose wires, no melted plastic, nothing. Just that (by now) pungent
> stink.
>
> With the cover off, I turned on the machine and watched the PSU, GPU, and
> CPU fans all spin up. Windows XP booted fine again, but after a moment or
> so, I noticed the Thermaltake Volcano 7+ fan slow, then stop, then just sort
> of twitter. PC Alert kicked in, and reported the CPU fan RPMs at 0, and
> sounded the audio alarm. (Nice to know that the software and sensor actually
> works! - Although it sounded like a car alarm, and had I not been right at
> my PC, I would have thought it was just that, and probably not been worried
> that my CPU was at risk of frying. I think I am gonna change the wave file
> that plays... -FYI)
>
> Needless to say, a lot of cussing, and troubleshooting ensued...
> Here is my 'solution' to get things going without replacing any hardware
> (yet):
>
> There were two leads from the Thermaltake 1) has just the sensor wire, and
> was plugged into a 3-pinned JP site on my motherboard, 2) had just 12+ volt
> and 1 ground (in a 3-holed housing), and adapted to one of the many power
> supply leads (I tried moving it around to several different leads, but the
> fan would always shut off after a few moments).
>
> Then, with the computer on, I simply unplugged the power lead to the fan,
> and plugged it back in... the fan would work for 10 or 15 seconds then stop
> and twitter.... unplug then plug back in... start, stop, and twitter...
> consistently.
>
> I carefully read my manual, and cruised MSI's site for any info regarding
> the (thankfully) redundant option of connecting the CPU fan directly to the
> motherboard, and found no indication that there were any issues with doing
> this. I cruised Thermaltake's website and found it to frustratingly bereft
> of any decent troubleshooting steps, or signs and symptoms of problems. It
> was no help whatsoever.
>
> So, going with the notion that there was something screwy with the what
> controls output to the power supply leads for internal devices, I carefully
> removed the single sensor wire from its housing, and inserted it into the
> empty one on the 2-wire fan-power housing, then plugged it into the CPU fan
> JP site on the motherboard.
>
> It worked! Great! I have been putting the machine through its paces for
> the last couple of days without ANY failures: Unreal Tournament, Unreal II,
> Nvidia Earthviewer, Sisoft Benchmarks, and FutureMark's Benchmark. All with
> smooth sailing.
>
>
> I am supposing that I should consider replacing my power supply....
> [it is ample on paper, but it is supporting the following:]
> AMD 1700+ OCed to 1900+
> MSI Motherboard (ms-6380)
> 1 Gig DDR RAM
> 2 Hard drives
> DVD Drive
> CD-RW Drive
> A seldom used floppy drive
> Win TV Card
> Geforce MX 440
> NIC card for DSL
> 56k Fax/Modem
> 6 USB ports of which I use 3
> 2 9-pin serial ports of which I use one
> 1 game port of which I use one for MIDI
>
>
> In general, it has been my experience that the Power Supply is more
> susceptible to damage than internal components, as it is on the 'front line'
> because it is connected to the power source. Of course, that is assuming
> that you have cooling, and a decent case, and stable hardware inside to
> begin with.
>
> Sorry for a long-winded post.... But I am curious what others think about
> my situation. The only times I have ever had problems with computers of
> this magnitude, it has been when I turned them on from a cold state- not
> while they are already running... that's the main reason I keep mine on all
> the time. You typically only see lightbulbs blow when you turn them on,
> too.... very rarely will one fail after being on for hours.... cold metal
> wire infused with structure-buckling electrons..... and that's when
> something with no moving parts can break.
>
> Thanks in advance for ideas, warnings, and suggestions.
> -Lawrence
>
>

[Lawrence]

Yes.... I have read concerns similar to yours since having replaced the fan
with a sporting new 7+...

But it purred along just fine plugged directly into one of the mobo headers.
At slower speed: 3068 rpms.... but not a peep out of it. And in warm
weather, too. But I only ran it that way for a little over 24 hours.

I just hated the nagging thought of an *eventual* *untimely* burnout of the
header at a later date... plus I don't like it when I know there's something
wrong inside the case.

It's an MSI board. 14 months old. K7T266 Pro2 version 2.0
It has always done whatever I have asked it.

Incidentally, the old number 7 has been gutted, and is now a 'personal fan'
on my desk. Works fine.

Thanks for the feedback,
-Lawrence in Seattle


"Murray McNeill" > wrote in message
...
> I am very surprised that the header on the motherboard had enough power
> to run the fan on a Volcano 7. The reason for the split connectors was
> to give the fan the full power of a hard drive connector, yet still give
> the motherboard the RPM signal it needs. I have read of people blowing
> the CPU fan header on their systems, and being forced to run it the way
> yours was originally wired.
>
> Lawrence wrote:
>
> > I haven't found anything similar to my following post yet.... looking
for
> > educated opinions....
> >
> > Here's what happened -
> > I shut off my PC for the first time in months and months the other day
to
> > accommodate some furniture re-arrangements.
> > The machine was off all night. The next morning, I reconnected things,
and
> > turned it on. Everything came up just fine, I checked my email, then
left
> > the computer and went about putting furniture pieces back in their
> > places.... After a few moments, I noticed an odor, like hot dust...
which
> > slowly turned into a stinky plasticy smell....
> >
> > As the only thing powered up, was my computer, I checked things out
(using
> > PC Alert: temp, cpu fan RPMs, etc.) and things looked ok. But that
stinky
> > smell never means anything good when electronics are involved, so I shut
> > things down, and took off my chassis cover to inspect the innards of the
PC.
> > No loose wires, no melted plastic, nothing. Just that (by now) pungent
> > stink.
> >
> > With the cover off, I turned on the machine and watched the PSU, GPU,
and
> > CPU fans all spin up. Windows XP booted fine again, but after a moment
or
> > so, I noticed the Thermaltake Volcano 7+ fan slow, then stop, then just
sort
> > of twitter. PC Alert kicked in, and reported the CPU fan RPMs at 0, and
> > sounded the audio alarm. (Nice to know that the software and sensor
actually
> > works! - Although it sounded like a car alarm, and had I not been right
at
> > my PC, I would have thought it was just that, and probably not been
worried
> > that my CPU was at risk of frying. I think I am gonna change the wave
file
> > that plays... -FYI)
> >
> > Needless to say, a lot of cussing, and troubleshooting ensued...
> > Here is my 'solution' to get things going without replacing any hardware
> > (yet):
> >
> > There were two leads from the Thermaltake 1) has just the sensor wire,
and
> > was plugged into a 3-pinned JP site on my motherboard, 2) had just 12+
volt
> > and 1 ground (in a 3-holed housing), and adapted to one of the many
power
> > supply leads (I tried moving it around to several different leads, but
the
> > fan would always shut off after a few moments).
> >
> > Then, with the computer on, I simply unplugged the power lead to the
fan,
> > and plugged it back in... the fan would work for 10 or 15 seconds then
stop
> > and twitter.... unplug then plug back in... start, stop, and twitter...
> > consistently.
> >
> > I carefully read my manual, and cruised MSI's site for any info
regarding
> > the (thankfully) redundant option of connecting the CPU fan directly to
the
> > motherboard, and found no indication that there were any issues with
doing
> > this. I cruised Thermaltake's website and found it to frustratingly
bereft
> > of any decent troubleshooting steps, or signs and symptoms of problems.
It
> > was no help whatsoever.
> >
> > So, going with the notion that there was something screwy with the what
> > controls output to the power supply leads for internal devices, I
carefully
> > removed the single sensor wire from its housing, and inserted it into
the
> > empty one on the 2-wire fan-power housing, then plugged it into the CPU
fan
> > JP site on the motherboard.
> >
> > It worked! Great! I have been putting the machine through its paces
for
> > the last couple of days without ANY failures: Unreal Tournament, Unreal
II,
> > Nvidia Earthviewer, Sisoft Benchmarks, and FutureMark's Benchmark. All
with
> > smooth sailing.
> >
> >
> > I am supposing that I should consider replacing my power supply....
> > [it is ample on paper, but it is supporting the following:]
> > AMD 1700+ OCed to 1900+
> > MSI Motherboard (ms-6380)
> > 1 Gig DDR RAM
> > 2 Hard drives
> > DVD Drive
> > CD-RW Drive
> > A seldom used floppy drive
> > Win TV Card
> > Geforce MX 440
> > NIC card for DSL
> > 56k Fax/Modem
> > 6 USB ports of which I use 3
> > 2 9-pin serial ports of which I use one
> > 1 game port of which I use one for MIDI
> >
> >
> > In general, it has been my experience that the Power Supply is more
> > susceptible to damage than internal components, as it is on the 'front
line'
> > because it is connected to the power source. Of course, that is
assuming
> > that you have cooling, and a decent case, and stable hardware inside to
> > begin with.
> >
> > Sorry for a long-winded post.... But I am curious what others think
about
> > my situation. The only times I have ever had problems with computers of
> > this magnitude, it has been when I turned them on from a cold state- not
> > while they are already running... that's the main reason I keep mine on
all
> > the time. You typically only see lightbulbs blow when you turn them on,
> > too.... very rarely will one fail after being on for hours.... cold
metal
> > wire infused with structure-buckling electrons..... and that's when
> > something with no moving parts can break.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for ideas, warnings, and suggestions.
> > -Lawrence
> >
> >
>