- Can I still have a MIDI port without SoundBlaster? (TAKE 2)

[Bern Harrison]

I guess the answer is no, huh?

"Bern Harrison" > wrote in message
...
> I have 2 audio cards... an SBLive original, and an Echo Gina.
>
> My computer occasionally freezes when both are used together (when my
music
> editing program is open -- so I'm assuming this is what causes the
> freezes) -- and I'd really like to get rid of my SBLive... but then I'd
have
> no MIDI ports to plug my music keyboard into.
>
> Is there an alternative for me?
>
> Or maybe someone can help me figure out why my computer locks up when I'm
> editing music and using both cards simultaneously. Could it be an IRQ
thing?
> I know nothing about IRQs, but I do know an abnormal amount of devices (5
if
> I recall) are sharing IRQ 9 during boot-up.
>
> I'm using WinXP SP1 with all the patches, AMD Thunderbird 1ghz.

[Patrick Keenan]

"Bern Harrison" > wrote in message
...
> I guess the answer is no, huh?

The answer is actually yes. This particular machine doesn't have a MIDI
port, so I added a MidiMan MidiSport USB 1x adapter to run my POD2. It
works very well and was not expensive.

I also used that adapter on a previous machine that wouldn't allow the SB
MIDI port to work.

And yes, the freeze sounds to me like some sort of contention issue.

HTH
-pk


>
> "Bern Harrison" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I have 2 audio cards... an SBLive original, and an Echo Gina.
> >
> > My computer occasionally freezes when both are used together (when my
> music
> > editing program is open -- so I'm assuming this is what causes the
> > freezes) -- and I'd really like to get rid of my SBLive... but then I'd
> have
> > no MIDI ports to plug my music keyboard into.
> >
> > Is there an alternative for me?
> >
> > Or maybe someone can help me figure out why my computer locks up when
I'm
> > editing music and using both cards simultaneously. Could it be an IRQ
> thing?
> > I know nothing about IRQs, but I do know an abnormal amount of devices
(5
> if
> > I recall) are sharing IRQ 9 during boot-up.
> >
> > I'm using WinXP SP1 with all the patches, AMD Thunderbird 1ghz.
>
>

[Patrick Keenan]

"Bern Harrison" > wrote in message
...
> I guess the answer is no, huh?

The answer is actually yes. This particular machine doesn't have a MIDI
port, so I added a MidiMan MidiSport USB 1x adapter to run my POD2. It
works very well and was not expensive.

I also used that adapter on a previous machine that wouldn't allow the SB
MIDI port to work.

And yes, the freeze sounds to me like some sort of contention issue.

HTH
-pk


>
> "Bern Harrison" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I have 2 audio cards... an SBLive original, and an Echo Gina.
> >
> > My computer occasionally freezes when both are used together (when my
> music
> > editing program is open -- so I'm assuming this is what causes the
> > freezes) -- and I'd really like to get rid of my SBLive... but then I'd
> have
> > no MIDI ports to plug my music keyboard into.
> >
> > Is there an alternative for me?
> >
> > Or maybe someone can help me figure out why my computer locks up when
I'm
> > editing music and using both cards simultaneously. Could it be an IRQ
> thing?
> > I know nothing about IRQs, but I do know an abnormal amount of devices
(5
> if
> > I recall) are sharing IRQ 9 during boot-up.
> >
> > I'm using WinXP SP1 with all the patches, AMD Thunderbird 1ghz.
>
>

[GSV Three Minds in a Can]

Bitstring >, from the wonderful
person Bern Harrison > said
>I guess the answer is no, huh?

It depends on the motherboard/computer as much as anything .. sharing an
IRQ is not a problem (with Win2k you could find a dozen or more things
sharing IRQ9), although a more modern mobo will have IRQs up to
23-or-so, so less sharing is needed. Worst that will happen is that some
devices will be a bit slow responding to an interrupt (since the dozen
different drivers all get called sequentially until one of them goes
'Bingo! this IRQ9 request is from MY device').

Creative SB drivers are the pits IME, and not good at IRQ sharing - with
SBLive cards part of the problem was the hardware, which makes silly
demands on PCI bus timings. Via chipset motherboards of the KT133a
generation (about right for your CPU age) had massive problems with PCI
bus latency, corrupting both the sound, and also other DMA transfers
(trashing disk data was a favourite). Later OS and BIOS patches worked
around this, but never really fixed it (My opinion again).

So possible solutions - revert to WinXP 'standard' driver for the
SBLive, if you installed Creative ones. This loses you the rear channel
sound, and probably some other features, and may not fix the problem.
Dump the SB Live, as you say, and try something newer. Or (would be my
favourite - heck, I did it) dump the whole motherboard for something
with an nForce2 chipset, with built-in Soundstorm/MIDI support on the
motherboard (but if you are running PC133 memory, you'll need to upgrade
to PC2100 or PC2700 DDR at the same time .. be sort of tempting to spend
$100 on a faster CPU too .. yes?). That eliminated both the motherboard
chipset and the SBLive problems in one swell foop.

8>.


>"Bern Harrison" > wrote in message
...
>> I have 2 audio cards... an SBLive original, and an Echo Gina.
>>
>> My computer occasionally freezes when both are used together (when my
>music
>> editing program is open -- so I'm assuming this is what causes the
>> freezes) -- and I'd really like to get rid of my SBLive... but then I'd
>have
>> no MIDI ports to plug my music keyboard into.
>>
>> Is there an alternative for me?
>>
>> Or maybe someone can help me figure out why my computer locks up when I'm
>> editing music and using both cards simultaneously. Could it be an IRQ
>thing?
>> I know nothing about IRQs, but I do know an abnormal amount of devices (5
>if
>> I recall) are sharing IRQ 9 during boot-up.
>>
>> I'm using WinXP SP1 with all the patches, AMD Thunderbird 1ghz.
>
>

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.

[GSV Three Minds in a Can]

Bitstring >, from the wonderful
person Bern Harrison > said
>I guess the answer is no, huh?

It depends on the motherboard/computer as much as anything .. sharing an
IRQ is not a problem (with Win2k you could find a dozen or more things
sharing IRQ9), although a more modern mobo will have IRQs up to
23-or-so, so less sharing is needed. Worst that will happen is that some
devices will be a bit slow responding to an interrupt (since the dozen
different drivers all get called sequentially until one of them goes
'Bingo! this IRQ9 request is from MY device').

Creative SB drivers are the pits IME, and not good at IRQ sharing - with
SBLive cards part of the problem was the hardware, which makes silly
demands on PCI bus timings. Via chipset motherboards of the KT133a
generation (about right for your CPU age) had massive problems with PCI
bus latency, corrupting both the sound, and also other DMA transfers
(trashing disk data was a favourite). Later OS and BIOS patches worked
around this, but never really fixed it (My opinion again).

So possible solutions - revert to WinXP 'standard' driver for the
SBLive, if you installed Creative ones. This loses you the rear channel
sound, and probably some other features, and may not fix the problem.
Dump the SB Live, as you say, and try something newer. Or (would be my
favourite - heck, I did it) dump the whole motherboard for something
with an nForce2 chipset, with built-in Soundstorm/MIDI support on the
motherboard (but if you are running PC133 memory, you'll need to upgrade
to PC2100 or PC2700 DDR at the same time .. be sort of tempting to spend
$100 on a faster CPU too .. yes?). That eliminated both the motherboard
chipset and the SBLive problems in one swell foop.

8>.


>"Bern Harrison" > wrote in message
...
>> I have 2 audio cards... an SBLive original, and an Echo Gina.
>>
>> My computer occasionally freezes when both are used together (when my
>music
>> editing program is open -- so I'm assuming this is what causes the
>> freezes) -- and I'd really like to get rid of my SBLive... but then I'd
>have
>> no MIDI ports to plug my music keyboard into.
>>
>> Is there an alternative for me?
>>
>> Or maybe someone can help me figure out why my computer locks up when I'm
>> editing music and using both cards simultaneously. Could it be an IRQ
>thing?
>> I know nothing about IRQs, but I do know an abnormal amount of devices (5
>if
>> I recall) are sharing IRQ 9 during boot-up.
>>
>> I'm using WinXP SP1 with all the patches, AMD Thunderbird 1ghz.
>
>

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.

[Dr Robin Bignall]

>> "Bern Harrison" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > I have 2 audio cards... an SBLive original, and an Echo Gina.
>> >
>> > My computer occasionally freezes when both are used together (when my
>> music
>> > editing program is open -- so I'm assuming this is what causes the
>> > freezes) -- and I'd really like to get rid of my SBLive... but then I'd
>> have
>> > no MIDI ports to plug my music keyboard into.
>> >
>> > Is there an alternative for me?
>> >
>> > Or maybe someone can help me figure out why my computer locks up when
>I'm
>> > editing music and using both cards simultaneously. Could it be an IRQ
>> thing?
>> > I know nothing about IRQs, but I do know an abnormal amount of devices
>(5
>> if
>> > I recall) are sharing IRQ 9 during boot-up.
>> >
>> > I'm using WinXP SP1 with all the patches, AMD Thunderbird 1ghz.
>>
>"Bern Harrison" > wrote in message
...
>> I guess the answer is no, huh?
>
>The answer is actually yes. This particular machine doesn't have a MIDI
>port, so I added a MidiMan MidiSport USB 1x adapter to run my POD2. It
>works very well and was not expensive.
>
>I also used that adapter on a previous machine that wouldn't allow the SB
>MIDI port to work.
>
>And yes, the freeze sounds to me like some sort of contention issue.
>
>HTH
>-pk
[rearranged to combat top-posting...]

I didn't see this first time around. There are probably easier ways of
doing this, but you need to get to device manager and look at your hardware
to see if you have any yellow ! signs that may indicate contention.

I know best the way under windows 98, which works quite well under XP. I
have not yet mastered the XP menu system to my liking.

Start control panel and select 'classic view'. Double-click on 'system',
click on 'hardware', click on 'device manager'. Look for 'sound....
devices' and click on the + sign. See if any of the entries have a yellow
sign next to them. If so, click on that device and look at the top for
'properties'. XP will tell you what is wrong and maybe how to fix it. There
may even be a fix-it wizard. I have not had any hardware contention so I
cannot say for sure.

--

wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall

Remote Hertfordshire
England

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/docrobin/homepage.htm

[Dr Robin Bignall]

>> "Bern Harrison" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > I have 2 audio cards... an SBLive original, and an Echo Gina.
>> >
>> > My computer occasionally freezes when both are used together (when my
>> music
>> > editing program is open -- so I'm assuming this is what causes the
>> > freezes) -- and I'd really like to get rid of my SBLive... but then I'd
>> have
>> > no MIDI ports to plug my music keyboard into.
>> >
>> > Is there an alternative for me?
>> >
>> > Or maybe someone can help me figure out why my computer locks up when
>I'm
>> > editing music and using both cards simultaneously. Could it be an IRQ
>> thing?
>> > I know nothing about IRQs, but I do know an abnormal amount of devices
>(5
>> if
>> > I recall) are sharing IRQ 9 during boot-up.
>> >
>> > I'm using WinXP SP1 with all the patches, AMD Thunderbird 1ghz.
>>
>"Bern Harrison" > wrote in message
...
>> I guess the answer is no, huh?
>
>The answer is actually yes. This particular machine doesn't have a MIDI
>port, so I added a MidiMan MidiSport USB 1x adapter to run my POD2. It
>works very well and was not expensive.
>
>I also used that adapter on a previous machine that wouldn't allow the SB
>MIDI port to work.
>
>And yes, the freeze sounds to me like some sort of contention issue.
>
>HTH
>-pk
[rearranged to combat top-posting...]

I didn't see this first time around. There are probably easier ways of
doing this, but you need to get to device manager and look at your hardware
to see if you have any yellow ! signs that may indicate contention.

I know best the way under windows 98, which works quite well under XP. I
have not yet mastered the XP menu system to my liking.

Start control panel and select 'classic view'. Double-click on 'system',
click on 'hardware', click on 'device manager'. Look for 'sound....
devices' and click on the + sign. See if any of the entries have a yellow
sign next to them. If so, click on that device and look at the top for
'properties'. XP will tell you what is wrong and maybe how to fix it. There
may even be a fix-it wizard. I have not had any hardware contention so I
cannot say for sure.

--

wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall

Remote Hertfordshire
England

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/docrobin/homepage.htm

[Bern Harrison]

So there is such a thing as a USB MIDI cable?

Or is it a USB Game cable, makeshifted into a USB MIDI cable via an
additional adapter of somekind?

If the former rather than the latter, could you tell me the name of the
exact product and company?

"Patrick Keenan" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Bern Harrison" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I guess the answer is no, huh?
>
> The answer is actually yes. This particular machine doesn't have a MIDI
> port, so I added a MidiMan MidiSport USB 1x adapter to run my POD2. It
> works very well and was not expensive.
>
> I also used that adapter on a previous machine that wouldn't allow the SB
> MIDI port to work.
>
> And yes, the freeze sounds to me like some sort of contention issue.
>
> HTH
> -pk

[Bern Harrison]

So there is such a thing as a USB MIDI cable?

Or is it a USB Game cable, makeshifted into a USB MIDI cable via an
additional adapter of somekind?

If the former rather than the latter, could you tell me the name of the
exact product and company?

"Patrick Keenan" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Bern Harrison" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I guess the answer is no, huh?
>
> The answer is actually yes. This particular machine doesn't have a MIDI
> port, so I added a MidiMan MidiSport USB 1x adapter to run my POD2. It
> works very well and was not expensive.
>
> I also used that adapter on a previous machine that wouldn't allow the SB
> MIDI port to work.
>
> And yes, the freeze sounds to me like some sort of contention issue.
>
> HTH
> -pk

[Bern Harrison]

Thanks but XP reports all devices as present and working fine.

The lock-up issues occur only in my music editing program... I'm guessing
it's somekind of IRQ problem, with both audio cards on IRQ 9 (as well as 2-3
other devices, if you believe the boot-up screen). But I don't know enough
about IRQ to say.

"Dr Robin Bignall" > wrote in message
...
>
> Start control panel and select 'classic view'. Double-click on 'system',
> click on 'hardware', click on 'device manager'. Look for 'sound....
> devices' and click on the + sign. See if any of the entries have a yellow
> sign next to them. If so, click on that device and look at the top for
> 'properties'. XP will tell you what is wrong and maybe how to fix it.
There
> may even be a fix-it wizard. I have not had any hardware contention so I
> cannot say for sure.

[Bern Harrison]

Thanks but XP reports all devices as present and working fine.

The lock-up issues occur only in my music editing program... I'm guessing
it's somekind of IRQ problem, with both audio cards on IRQ 9 (as well as 2-3
other devices, if you believe the boot-up screen). But I don't know enough
about IRQ to say.

"Dr Robin Bignall" > wrote in message
...
>
> Start control panel and select 'classic view'. Double-click on 'system',
> click on 'hardware', click on 'device manager'. Look for 'sound....
> devices' and click on the + sign. See if any of the entries have a yellow
> sign next to them. If so, click on that device and look at the top for
> 'properties'. XP will tell you what is wrong and maybe how to fix it.
There
> may even be a fix-it wizard. I have not had any hardware contention so I
> cannot say for sure.

[Dr Robin Bignall]

On Sat, 5 Apr 2003 22:46:51 +0100, GSV Three Minds in a Can
]> wrote:

>Bitstring >, from the wonderful
>person Bern Harrison > said
>>I guess the answer is no, huh?
>
>It depends on the motherboard/computer as much as anything .. sharing an
>IRQ is not a problem (with Win2k you could find a dozen or more things
>sharing IRQ9), although a more modern mobo will have IRQs up to
>23-or-so, so less sharing is needed. Worst that will happen is that some
>devices will be a bit slow responding to an interrupt (since the dozen
>different drivers all get called sequentially until one of them goes
>'Bingo! this IRQ9 request is from MY device').
>
>Creative SB drivers are the pits IME, and not good at IRQ sharing - with
>SBLive cards part of the problem was the hardware, which makes silly
>demands on PCI bus timings. Via chipset motherboards of the KT133a
>generation (about right for your CPU age) had massive problems with PCI
>bus latency, corrupting both the sound, and also other DMA transfers
>(trashing disk data was a favourite). Later OS and BIOS patches worked
>around this, but never really fixed it (My opinion again).
>
>So possible solutions - revert to WinXP 'standard' driver for the
>SBLive, if you installed Creative ones. This loses you the rear channel
>sound, and probably some other features, and may not fix the problem.
>Dump the SB Live, as you say, and try something newer. Or (would be my
>favourite - heck, I did it) dump the whole motherboard for something
>with an nForce2 chipset, with built-in Soundstorm/MIDI support on the
>motherboard (but if you are running PC133 memory, you'll need to upgrade
>to PC2100 or PC2700 DDR at the same time .. be sort of tempting to spend
>$100 on a faster CPU too .. yes?). That eliminated both the motherboard
>chipset and the SBLive problems in one swell foop.
>
Gosh! If I was *really* into Hi Fi I'd be tempted to throw away the P4
system I built in December and do as you suggest just for the sheer
pleasure of having all of that beautiful kit!

Thanks for making my afternoon with a wonderful post...

--

wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall

Remote Hertfordshire
England

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/docrobin/homepage.htm

[Dr Robin Bignall]

On Sat, 5 Apr 2003 22:46:51 +0100, GSV Three Minds in a Can
]> wrote:

>Bitstring >, from the wonderful
>person Bern Harrison > said
>>I guess the answer is no, huh?
>
>It depends on the motherboard/computer as much as anything .. sharing an
>IRQ is not a problem (with Win2k you could find a dozen or more things
>sharing IRQ9), although a more modern mobo will have IRQs up to
>23-or-so, so less sharing is needed. Worst that will happen is that some
>devices will be a bit slow responding to an interrupt (since the dozen
>different drivers all get called sequentially until one of them goes
>'Bingo! this IRQ9 request is from MY device').
>
>Creative SB drivers are the pits IME, and not good at IRQ sharing - with
>SBLive cards part of the problem was the hardware, which makes silly
>demands on PCI bus timings. Via chipset motherboards of the KT133a
>generation (about right for your CPU age) had massive problems with PCI
>bus latency, corrupting both the sound, and also other DMA transfers
>(trashing disk data was a favourite). Later OS and BIOS patches worked
>around this, but never really fixed it (My opinion again).
>
>So possible solutions - revert to WinXP 'standard' driver for the
>SBLive, if you installed Creative ones. This loses you the rear channel
>sound, and probably some other features, and may not fix the problem.
>Dump the SB Live, as you say, and try something newer. Or (would be my
>favourite - heck, I did it) dump the whole motherboard for something
>with an nForce2 chipset, with built-in Soundstorm/MIDI support on the
>motherboard (but if you are running PC133 memory, you'll need to upgrade
>to PC2100 or PC2700 DDR at the same time .. be sort of tempting to spend
>$100 on a faster CPU too .. yes?). That eliminated both the motherboard
>chipset and the SBLive problems in one swell foop.
>
Gosh! If I was *really* into Hi Fi I'd be tempted to throw away the P4
system I built in December and do as you suggest just for the sheer
pleasure of having all of that beautiful kit!

Thanks for making my afternoon with a wonderful post...

--

wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall

Remote Hertfordshire
England

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/docrobin/homepage.htm