SP2 - WHY?????

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

I installed SP2 yesterday over an existing Windows XP SP1
installation. After performing a Disk Cleanup and Defrag,
I must say this computer is performing better than ever.

List of fixes included in Service Pack 2 for Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;811113&Product=winxp

The final version of SP2 is not yet available to the general public for download.
It should appear as a Critical Update sometime around August 16th on the Windows
Update website.

Check this site next week for updates to it's availability:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/winxpsp2.mspx

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

Be Smart! Protect your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/security/protect/

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"tony" wrote:

| What is wrong with all of the authors in this newsgroup. What is the hurry
| about installing SP2?
| Haven't they learnt yet that it isn't wise to install a new package as soon
| as it is available as there
| will no doubt be many bugs that will need updating within the first month.
| (A lot of you will be aware of the ZoneAlarm 5 fiasco!)
| I personally will not be updating with SP2 until I have seen what the
| feedback is like in this and
| other groups.
| Good luck to all
| Tony

[R. McCarty]

The other thing about SP2 is that a number of applications are going
to need updates/patches for SP2 compatibility. Most if not all won't
post those until the official release on Tuesday.

However, holding off is logical for a Enterprise where there are lots
of PC's and proprietary applications. For 99% of home based users
SP2 will install fine. But, I would still recommend users take a system
image before starting the process. Everyone who is eager to get SP2
should spend a little time reading the change documentation on the
Service Pack.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/sp2chngs.mspx
It's technical, but summarizes how things will change after installing SP2.

Anyway Tuesday should be an interesting day here on XP General.

"tony" > wrote in message
...
> What is wrong with all of the authors in this newsgroup. What is the hurry
> about installing SP2?
> Haven't they learnt yet that it isn't wise to install a new package as
> soon
> as it is available as there
> will no doubt be many bugs that will need updating within the first month.
> (A lot of you will be aware of the ZoneAlarm 5 fiasco!)
> I personally will not be updating with SP2 until I have seen what the
> feedback is like in this and
> other groups.
> Good luck to all
> Tony
>
>

[Ken EZ]

Hi Tony, Someone once wrote that the pioneers get the arrows and the settlers
get the fruit. I have been one of the many who beta tested the SP2 upgrade
and while there were problems at first, MS fixed the ones they could and told
me when they couldn't or wouldn't. I wouldn't be afraid of SP 2 especially
if you back up your existing system and /or set a restore point. I was
pleased to see that I could run the SP2 firewall, zone alarm and my router
without conflict. In fact, I couldn't use the MS firewall in SP1 with my home
network; I can without a problem in SP2. The upgrade does improve Windows XP.

"tony" wrote:

> What is wrong with all of the authors in this newsgroup. What is the hurry
> about installing SP2?
> Haven't they learnt yet that it isn't wise to install a new package as soon
> as it is available as there
> will no doubt be many bugs that will need updating within the first month.
> (A lot of you will be aware of the ZoneAlarm 5 fiasco!)
> I personally will not be updating with SP2 until I have seen what the
> feedback is like in this and
> other groups.
> Good luck to all
> Tony
>
>
>

[The Unknown P]

What a ridiculous statement to make. SP2 has been out and tested for several
months now. I personally have had it since the release and gone from RC1 to
RC2 and assisted with bug reporting like thousands of others. While in fact
nothing is perfect in computing with an attitude like yours we would still
all be using Windows '98. }:~)

[tony]

What is wrong with all of the authors in this newsgroup. What is the hurry
about installing SP2?
Haven't they learnt yet that it isn't wise to install a new package as soon
as it is available as there
will no doubt be many bugs that will need updating within the first month.
(A lot of you will be aware of the ZoneAlarm 5 fiasco!)
I personally will not be updating with SP2 until I have seen what the
feedback is like in this and
other groups.
Good luck to all
Tony

[Jeffrey Struyk - MVP]

On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 21:49:39 GMT, "tony"
> wrote:

>What is wrong with all of the authors in this newsgroup. What is the hurry
>about installing SP2?
>Haven't they learnt yet that it isn't wise to install a new package as soon
>as it is available as there
>will no doubt be many bugs that will need updating within the first month.
>(A lot of you will be aware of the ZoneAlarm 5 fiasco!)
>I personally will not be updating with SP2 until I have seen what the
>feedback is like in this and
>other groups.
>Good luck to all
>Tony
>

FWIW, I've been on the beta team for that project. I've got it on
three systems here and I've not had a single problem with any of them
since the RC1 release.

--
Jeffrey Struyk
Microsoft MVP
http://support.microsoft.com
Please direct all replies to the newsgroup.

[Greg R]

On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 14:13:02 -0700, "The Unknown P" <(
)> wrote:

>What a ridiculous statement to make. SP2 has been out and tested for several
>months now. I personally have had it since the release and gone from RC1 to
>RC2 and assisted with bug reporting like thousands of others. While in fact
>nothing is perfect in computing with an attitude like yours we would still
>all be using Windows '98. }:~)
Actual I using 98se & Windows xp sp1 rc2. I do see your point

[Alias]

<MVP> wrote

> On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 21:49:39 GMT, "tony"
> > wrote:
>
> >What is wrong with all of the authors in this newsgroup. What is the
hurry
> >about installing SP2?
> >Haven't they learnt yet that it isn't wise to install a new package as
soon
> >as it is available as there
> >will no doubt be many bugs that will need updating within the first
month.
> >(A lot of you will be aware of the ZoneAlarm 5 fiasco!)
> >I personally will not be updating with SP2 until I have seen what the
> >feedback is like in this and
> >other groups.
> >Good luck to all
> >Tony
> >
>
> FWIW, I've been on the beta team for that project. I've got it on
> three systems here and I've not had a single problem with any of them
> since the RC1 release.
>
> --
> Jeffrey Struyk
> Microsoft MVP

That's encouraging. But you're a tech. I bet your Windows 98SE/2K/Me/NT ran
like silk, too. It will be interesting to see what happens to those people
who aren't techs. Like another poster said, this coming Tuesday if, indeed,
the SP2 is available on Windows Update for the general public, will be an
interesting day on XP General.

Alias

[Max Burke]

> Carey Frisch [MVP] scribbled:
> I installed SP2 yesterday over an existing Windows XP SP1
> installation. After performing a Disk Cleanup and Defrag,
> I must say this computer is performing better than ever.
> List of fixes included in Service Pack 2 for Windows XP
>
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;811113&Product=winxp
> The final version of SP2 is not yet available to the general public
> for download. It should appear as a Critical Update sometime around
> August 16th on the Windows Update website.
> Check this site next week for updates to it's availability:
>
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/winxpsp2.mspx


When is the SP2 CD going to be available, or the retail OS versions with
SP2?

I'm considering doing an upgrade to XP Pro (from XP home) when it ships with
SP2.
I certainly cant see me downloading an 80 -113Mb SP2 update over a 56K dial
up connection....

--

Replace the obvious with paradise.net to email me
Found Images
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~mlvburke

[Terrycymru]

On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 21:09:47 GMT, R. McCarty wrote:

> The other thing about SP2 is that a number of applications are going
> to need updates/patches for SP2 compatibility. Most if not all won't
> post those until the official release on Tuesday.

Is there a list somewhere of applications which have already been
identified as needing updates/patches for SP2 compatibility?

TIA,
Terry

[Alias]

"Terrycymru" > wrote

> On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 21:09:47 GMT, R. McCarty wrote:
>
> > The other thing about SP2 is that a number of applications are going
> > to need updates/patches for SP2 compatibility. Most if not all won't
> > post those until the official release on Tuesday.
>
> Is there a list somewhere of applications which have already been
> identified as needing updates/patches for SP2 compatibility?
>
> TIA,
> Terry

I would be curious to see that list, too. I am not going to install SP2
until I know my apps. will work. I am especially worried about WS_FTP 95 as
I do a lot of web work.

Alias

[tony]

I take my hat off to all of the Beta testers of SP2 but as to your statement
that we would all still be using Windows '98 is ridiculous, this ng and its
posts reinforces my contention that this seriously large upgrade to the OS
is going to be troublesome.
It is not so much the Microsoft side of the upgrade that worries me, more
that of the 3rd party software that we all rely on to work seamlessly with
it.
I still say that a "wait and see" approach is best, but I may be wrong.
The near future will tell us the truth about the upgrade.
Tony

[Jeffrey Struyk - MVP]

On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 01:45:47 +0200, "Alias"
> wrote:

>> FWIW, I've been on the beta team for that project. I've got it on
>> three systems here and I've not had a single problem with any of them
>> since the RC1 release.
>>
>> --
>> Jeffrey Struyk
>> Microsoft MVP
>
>That's encouraging. But you're a tech. I bet your Windows 98SE/2K/Me/NT ran
>like silk, too.

For the most part, that's a true statement <G>. It's probably a safe
assumption that I spend a bit more time and energy maintaining my
systems than the average user.

>It will be interesting to see what happens to those people
>who aren't techs. Like another poster said, this coming Tuesday if, indeed,
>the SP2 is available on Windows Update for the general public, will be an
>interesting day on XP General.

I'm sure there will be questions, issues about the firewall (which is
turned on by default) and that kind of thing. As far as new
functionality, it's gotten simpler. Take the Security Center and the
Wireless Networking. Centralizing the security functions was a very
good move. The new wireless networking routines greatly simplify the
process and should help novice users configure their own networks.

--
Jeffrey Struyk
Microsoft MVP
http://support.microsoft.com
Please direct all replies to the newsgroup.

[Alias]

<MVP> wrote in message ...
> On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 01:45:47 +0200, "Alias"
> > wrote:
>
> >> FWIW, I've been on the beta team for that project. I've got it on
> >> three systems here and I've not had a single problem with any of them
> >> since the RC1 release.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jeffrey Struyk
> >> Microsoft MVP
> >
> >That's encouraging. But you're a tech. I bet your Windows 98SE/2K/Me/NT
ran
> >like silk, too.
>
> For the most part, that's a true statement <G>. It's probably a safe
> assumption that I spend a bit more time and energy maintaining my
> systems than the average user.
>
> >It will be interesting to see what happens to those people
> >who aren't techs. Like another poster said, this coming Tuesday if,
indeed,
> >the SP2 is available on Windows Update for the general public, will be an
> >interesting day on XP General.
>
> I'm sure there will be questions, issues about the firewall (which is
> turned on by default) and that kind of thing. As far as new
> functionality, it's gotten simpler. Take the Security Center and the
> Wireless Networking. Centralizing the security functions was a very
> good move. The new wireless networking routines greatly simplify the
> process and should help novice users configure their own networks.
>
> --
> Jeffrey Struyk
> Microsoft MVP

But won't having auto update/install enabled cause problems if they also
have their AV's auto-scan enabled? Won't some programs not work properly
after the download and installation?

Alias

[Greg R]

On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 16:25:08 +0200, "Alias"
> wrote:

>
><MVP> wrote in message ...
>> On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 01:45:47 +0200, "Alias"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >> FWIW, I've been on the beta team for that project. I've got it on
>> >> three systems here and I've not had a single problem with any of them
>> >> since the RC1 release.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Jeffrey Struyk
>> >> Microsoft MVP
>> >
>> >That's encouraging. But you're a tech. I bet your Windows 98SE/2K/Me/NT
>ran
>> >like silk, too.
>>
>> For the most part, that's a true statement <G>. It's probably a safe
>> assumption that I spend a bit more time and energy maintaining my
>> systems than the average user.
>>
>> >It will be interesting to see what happens to those people
>> >who aren't techs. Like another poster said, this coming Tuesday if,
>indeed,
>> >the SP2 is available on Windows Update for the general public, will be an
>> >interesting day on XP General.
>>
>> I'm sure there will be questions, issues about the firewall (which is
>> turned on by default) and that kind of thing. As far as new
>> functionality, it's gotten simpler. Take the Security Center and the
>> Wireless Networking. Centralizing the security functions was a very
>> good move. The new wireless networking routines greatly simplify the
>> process and should help novice users configure their own networks.
>>
>> --
>> Jeffrey Struyk
>> Microsoft MVP
>
>But won't having auto update/install enabled cause problems if they also
>have their AV's auto-scan enabled? Won't some programs not work properly
>after the download and installation?
>
>Alias
>
For some reason Nortons 2004 for has some problems on some systems.
Possible due to the stupid activation. However, Using any previous
Norton’s version 2003 or earlier should work.

Here’s how I would install xp sp2 if I was downloading xp sp2 and had

Norton’s.
First change windows automatic update to "download updates for me, but
let me choose when to install them."

When it done downloading. I would unplug or disconnect my internet
connections.

In services.msc

I would stop all of Norton’s services. (Not disable)
Install xp s2

Reboot
The only thing security center may not recognize it Norton is
installed.

Greg R

[Alias]

"Greg R" > wrote

> On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 16:25:08 +0200, "Alias"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> ><MVP> wrote

> >> On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 01:45:47 +0200, "Alias"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >> FWIW, I've been on the beta team for that project. I've got it on
> >> >> three systems here and I've not had a single problem with any of
them
> >> >> since the RC1 release.
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Jeffrey Struyk
> >> >> Microsoft MVP
> >> >
> >> >That's encouraging. But you're a tech. I bet your Windows
98SE/2K/Me/NT
> >ran
> >> >like silk, too.
> >>
> >> For the most part, that's a true statement <G>. It's probably a safe
> >> assumption that I spend a bit more time and energy maintaining my
> >> systems than the average user.
> >>
> >> >It will be interesting to see what happens to those people
> >> >who aren't techs. Like another poster said, this coming Tuesday if,
> >indeed,
> >> >the SP2 is available on Windows Update for the general public, will be
an
> >> >interesting day on XP General.
> >>
> >> I'm sure there will be questions, issues about the firewall (which is
> >> turned on by default) and that kind of thing. As far as new
> >> functionality, it's gotten simpler. Take the Security Center and the
> >> Wireless Networking. Centralizing the security functions was a very
> >> good move. The new wireless networking routines greatly simplify the
> >> process and should help novice users configure their own networks.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jeffrey Struyk
> >> Microsoft MVP
> >
> >But won't having auto update/install enabled cause problems if they also
> >have their AV's auto-scan enabled? Won't some programs not work properly
> >after the download and installation?
> >
> >Alias
> >
> For some reason Nortons 2004 for has some problems on some systems.
> Possible due to the stupid activation. However, Using any previous
> Norton's version 2003 or earlier should work.
>
> Here's how I would install xp sp2 if I was downloading xp sp2 and had
>
> Norton's.
> First change windows automatic update to "download updates for me, but
> let me choose when to install them."
>
> When it done downloading. I would unplug or disconnect my internet
> connections.
>
> In services.msc
>
> I would stop all of Norton's services. (Not disable)
> Install xp s2
>
> Reboot
> The only thing security center may not recognize it Norton is
> installed.
>
> Greg R

I don't have Norton. I have Trend Micro that came bundled with SystemSuite
5.0. What would you suggest for that?

Alias

[Incognitus]

"Alias" > wrote in message
...
>
> <MVP> wrote in message ...
> > On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 01:45:47 +0200, "Alias"
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >> FWIW, I've been on the beta team for that project. I've got it on
> > >> three systems here and I've not had a single problem with any of them
> > >> since the RC1 release.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Jeffrey Struyk
> > >> Microsoft MVP
> > >
> > >That's encouraging. But you're a tech. I bet your Windows 98SE/2K/Me/NT
> ran
> > >like silk, too.
> >
> > For the most part, that's a true statement <G>. It's probably a safe
> > assumption that I spend a bit more time and energy maintaining my
> > systems than the average user.
> >
> > >It will be interesting to see what happens to those people
> > >who aren't techs. Like another poster said, this coming Tuesday if,
> indeed,
> > >the SP2 is available on Windows Update for the general public, will be
an
> > >interesting day on XP General.
> >
> > I'm sure there will be questions, issues about the firewall (which is
> > turned on by default) and that kind of thing. As far as new
> > functionality, it's gotten simpler. Take the Security Center and the
> > Wireless Networking. Centralizing the security functions was a very
> > good move. The new wireless networking routines greatly simplify the
> > process and should help novice users configure their own networks.
> >
> > --
> > Jeffrey Struyk
> > Microsoft MVP
>
> But won't having auto update/install enabled cause problems if they also
> have their AV's auto-scan enabled? Won't some programs not work properly
> after the download and installation?
>
> Alias
>
>

Not that it matters much but, I've installed every update including SP1,
except display drivers, while connected/online to Windows Updated and my AV
running without a single problem.

[Johnny Lingo]

"Alias" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Terrycymru" > wrote
>
> > On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 21:09:47 GMT, R. McCarty wrote:
> >
> > > The other thing about SP2 is that a number of applications are going
> > > to need updates/patches for SP2 compatibility. Most if not all won't
> > > post those until the official release on Tuesday.
> >
> > Is there a list somewhere of applications which have already been
> > identified as needing updates/patches for SP2 compatibility?
> >
> > TIA,
> > Terry
>
> I would be curious to see that list, too. I am not going to install SP2
> until I know my apps. will work. I am especially worried about WS_FTP 95
as
> I do a lot of web work.
>
> Alias
>
>


If you do a lot of web work, why don't you get a newer FTP program?

[Greg R]

Alias
I just tested Norton 2003. I use avg know anyway.

Incognitus,
Yes, you can leave your virus program when downloading.
I usally disable my virus program after I unplug or disconnect my
internet connnection after downloading service packs.

Greg R


>
>Not that it matters much but, I've installed every update including SP1,
>except display drivers, while connected/online to Windows Updated and my AV
>running without a single problem.

[Incognitus]

I've always just clicked the install button at the update site and installed
while there with AV running. Now, if I used Norton I'd still be trying to
uninstall it. :)

"Greg R" > wrote in message
...
> Alias
> I just tested Norton 2003. I use avg know anyway.
>
> Incognitus,
> Yes, you can leave your virus program when downloading.
> I usally disable my virus program after I unplug or disconnect my
> internet connnection after downloading service packs.
>
> Greg R
>
>
> >
> >Not that it matters much but, I've installed every update including SP1,
> >except display drivers, while connected/online to Windows Updated and my
AV
> >running without a single problem.
>

[Alias]

"Johnny Lingo" > wrote in message
news:sxsRc.269290$XM6.17286@attbi_s53...
>
> "Alias" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Terrycymru" > wrote
> >
> > > On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 21:09:47 GMT, R. McCarty wrote:
> > >
> > > > The other thing about SP2 is that a number of applications are going
> > > > to need updates/patches for SP2 compatibility. Most if not all won't
> > > > post those until the official release on Tuesday.
> > >
> > > Is there a list somewhere of applications which have already been
> > > identified as needing updates/patches for SP2 compatibility?
> > >
> > > TIA,
> > > Terry
> >
> > I would be curious to see that list, too. I am not going to install SP2
> > until I know my apps. will work. I am especially worried about WS_FTP 95
> as
> > I do a lot of web work.
> >
> > Alias
> >
> >
>
>
> If you do a lot of web work, why don't you get a newer FTP program?

Cause I like that one and I've been using it for over 7 years. Why learn a
new program when this one works beautifully to meet my needs?

Alias

[RA]

> > If you do a lot of web work, why don't you get a newer FTP program?
>
> Cause I like that one and I've been using it for over 7 years. Why learn a
> new program when this one works beautifully to meet my needs?
>
> Alias
>
>

That's what my sister says about Windows95

[Alias]

"RA" <nomail@thisplace> wrote
>
> > > If you do a lot of web work, why don't you get a newer FTP program?
> >
> > Cause I like that one and I've been using it for over 7 years. Why learn
a
> > new program when this one works beautifully to meet my needs?
> >
> > Alias
> >
> >
>
> That's what my sister says about Windows95

Apples/oranges. I can upload what I want with WS_FTP95. I cannot do what I
want to do with Win95. Now, do you know the answer or are you only capable
of making snide comments?

Alias

[Johnny Lingo]

"Alias" > wrote in message
...
>
> "RA" <nomail@thisplace> wrote
> >
> > > > If you do a lot of web work, why don't you get a newer FTP program?
> > >
> > > Cause I like that one and I've been using it for over 7 years. Why
learn
> a
> > > new program when this one works beautifully to meet my needs?
> > >
> > > Alias
> > >
> > >
> >
> > That's what my sister says about Windows95
>
> Apples/oranges. I can upload what I want with WS_FTP95. I cannot do what I
> want to do with Win95. Now, do you know the answer or are you only capable
> of making snide comments?
>
> Alias
>
>


The point I believe that RA was making is that Windows 95 is an old and
antiquated OS that MS doesn't even support anymore. The world of technology
has come a long way since then and people need to keep up. WS_FTP95 falls in
the same realm. Keep up with technology, or you may get left behind.

I once knew of a group that worked for a company that I worked for that had
an application that worked with a very old versions of Oracle and DOS. Many
years passed and they refused to upgrade their applications as technology
advanced. It finally came to a point that it was almost impossible to
migrate to a current version, and a large chunk of their data was lost.

Bottom line: It should probably be time to move on.
http://www.ipswitch.com/Products/WS_FTP/

[Alias]

"Johnny Lingo" > wrote
>
> "Alias" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "RA" <nomail@thisplace> wrote
> > >
> > > > > If you do a lot of web work, why don't you get a newer FTP
program?
> > > >
> > > > Cause I like that one and I've been using it for over 7 years. Why
> learn
> > a
> > > > new program when this one works beautifully to meet my needs?
> > > >
> > > > Alias
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > That's what my sister says about Windows95
> >
> > Apples/oranges. I can upload what I want with WS_FTP95. I cannot do what
I
> > want to do with Win95. Now, do you know the answer or are you only
capable
> > of making snide comments?
> >
> > Alias
> >
> >
>
>
> The point I believe that RA was making is that Windows 95 is an old and
> antiquated OS that MS doesn't even support anymore.

What's that got to do with WS_FTP? It works fine on my XP Pro now and worked
fine on 95, 98, 98SE, W2k and Me.

> The world of technology
> has come a long way since then and people need to keep up. WS_FTP95 falls
in
> the same realm. Keep up with technology, or you may get left behind.

Key word: "may". Do you know???

> I once knew of a group that worked for a company that I worked for that
had
> an application that worked with a very old versions of Oracle and DOS.
Many
> years passed and they refused to upgrade their applications as technology
> advanced. It finally came to a point that it was almost impossible to
> migrate to a current version, and a large chunk of their data was lost.
>
> Bottom line: It should probably be time to move on.

Another key word: "probably". Do you know???

> http://www.ipswitch.com/Products/WS_FTP/

Um, the "pro" is not free. I don't see any free programs there, do you? The
one I have is. Do you know the answer to my question or can you merely post
an essay on computer technology that *doesn't* answer the question. A simple
yes or no will do.

I am not concerned about losing data as WS_FTP 95 only keeps my login and
password, no other data. The data is both on my D drive and on my host
server, and not kept by WS_FTP.

Alias

[Greg R]

WS_FTP95 LE
Yes, It works on 98se & windows xp sp2 rc2. I used to used this alot.
That is until I heard about firefox.

Ws_Ftp_pro is not free.


Greg R




http://www.angelfire.com/in4/computertips/

[Alias]

THANK YOU!

Alias

"Greg R" > wrote

> WS_FTP95 LE
> Yes, It works on 98se & windows xp sp2 rc2. I used to used this alot.
> That is until I heard about firefox.
>
> Ws_Ftp_pro is not free.
>
>
> Greg R
>
>
>
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/in4/computertips/

[Johnny Lingo]

"Alias" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Johnny Lingo" > wrote
> >
> > "Alias" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "RA" <nomail@thisplace> wrote
> > > >
> > > > > > If you do a lot of web work, why don't you get a newer FTP
> program?
> > > > >
> > > > > Cause I like that one and I've been using it for over 7 years. Why
> > learn
> > > a
> > > > > new program when this one works beautifully to meet my needs?
> > > > >
> > > > > Alias
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > That's what my sister says about Windows95
> > >
> > > Apples/oranges. I can upload what I want with WS_FTP95. I cannot do
what
> I
> > > want to do with Win95. Now, do you know the answer or are you only
> capable
> > > of making snide comments?
> > >
> > > Alias
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > The point I believe that RA was making is that Windows 95 is an old and
> > antiquated OS that MS doesn't even support anymore.
>
> What's that got to do with WS_FTP? It works fine on my XP Pro now and
worked
> fine on 95, 98, 98SE, W2k and Me.
>
> > The world of technology
> > has come a long way since then and people need to keep up. WS_FTP95
falls
> in
> > the same realm. Keep up with technology, or you may get left behind.
>
> Key word: "may". Do you know???


In my opinion, YES you will be left behind at some point if you continue to
hold on to antiquated technology.



>
> > I once knew of a group that worked for a company that I worked for that
> had
> > an application that worked with a very old versions of Oracle and DOS.
> Many
> > years passed and they refused to upgrade their applications as
technology
> > advanced. It finally came to a point that it was almost impossible to
> > migrate to a current version, and a large chunk of their data was lost.
> >
> > Bottom line: It should probably be time to move on.
>
> Another key word: "probably". Do you know???


Again, you insist on using only antiquated technology, and not move up from
time to time, you will be left behind!



>
> > http://www.ipswitch.com/Products/WS_FTP/
>
> Um, the "pro" is not free. I don't see any free programs there, do you?
The
> one I have is. Do you know the answer to my question or can you merely
post
> an essay on computer technology that *doesn't* answer the question. A
simple
> yes or no will do.


Things in this world cost. You should not expect everything to be free!


>
> I am not concerned about losing data as WS_FTP 95 only keeps my login and
> password, no other data. The data is both on my D drive and on my host
> server, and not kept by WS_FTP.
>
> Alias
>
>

[Alias]

"Johnny Lingo" > wrote in message
news:doNRc.118737$eM2.48262@attbi_s51...
>
> "Alias" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Johnny Lingo" > wrote
> > >
> > > "Alias" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "RA" <nomail@thisplace> wrote
> > > > >
> > > > > > > If you do a lot of web work, why don't you get a newer FTP
> > program?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cause I like that one and I've been using it for over 7 years.
Why
> > > learn
> > > > a
> > > > > > new program when this one works beautifully to meet my needs?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Alias
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > That's what my sister says about Windows95
> > > >
> > > > Apples/oranges. I can upload what I want with WS_FTP95. I cannot do
> what
> > I
> > > > want to do with Win95. Now, do you know the answer or are you only
> > capable
> > > > of making snide comments?
> > > >
> > > > Alias
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The point I believe that RA was making is that Windows 95 is an old
and
> > > antiquated OS that MS doesn't even support anymore.
> >
> > What's that got to do with WS_FTP? It works fine on my XP Pro now and
> worked
> > fine on 95, 98, 98SE, W2k and Me.
> >
> > > The world of technology
> > > has come a long way since then and people need to keep up. WS_FTP95
> falls
> > in
> > > the same realm. Keep up with technology, or you may get left behind.
> >
> > Key word: "may". Do you know???
>
>
> In my opinion, YES you will be left behind at some point if you continue
to
> hold on to antiquated technology.

Apparently, it *isn't* antiquated, despite your guessing.
>
>
>
> >
> > > I once knew of a group that worked for a company that I worked for
that
> > had
> > > an application that worked with a very old versions of Oracle and DOS.
> > Many
> > > years passed and they refused to upgrade their applications as
> technology
> > > advanced. It finally came to a point that it was almost impossible to
> > > migrate to a current version, and a large chunk of their data was
lost.
> > >
> > > Bottom line: It should probably be time to move on.
> >
> > Another key word: "probably". Do you know???
>
>
> Again, you insist on using only antiquated technology, and not move up
from
> time to time, you will be left behind!

Apparently, it *isn't* antiquated, despite your guessing.

>
>
>
> >
> > > http://www.ipswitch.com/Products/WS_FTP/
> >
> > Um, the "pro" is not free. I don't see any free programs there, do you?
> The
> > one I have is. Do you know the answer to my question or can you merely
> post
> > an essay on computer technology that *doesn't* answer the question. A
> simple
> > yes or no will do.
>
>
> Things in this world cost. You should not expect everything to be free!

I don't. Are you saying that freeware is a bad thing? If so, when will you
be removing your AdAware, Spybot, Spywareblaster, etc.? Do you plan to send
MS a check for SP2 so that you can feel better about your "world"?

Why couldn't you just answer the question? And, if you didn't know the
answer, why did you respond to the post, other than using the opportunity to
lamely try to put me down and expouse your thoughts on new technology and
that a lot of things in this world are not free?

Alias

>
>
> >
> > I am not concerned about losing data as WS_FTP 95 only keeps my login
and
> > password, no other data. The data is both on my D drive and on my host
> > server, and not kept by WS_FTP.
> >
> > Alias
> >
> >
>
>

[Ken]

The link you posted includes a download link for SP2 for installation on
multiple computers over a network. It is a huge file -- 272 MB. The link
says that users of a single computer should not install this version, but
wait for a smaller download taylored for single computers.

I have a single computer, but I also have a blazing fast broadband
connection that can download this 272 MB file in minutes. Is the problem
here merely the size of the download, or is the problem also the network
components presumably included in this version? In other words, other than
having to download a bigger file, what would be the downside for me of
installing this version of SP2 on a single computer instead of waiting until
August 16 or whatever?

TIA
Ken

"Carey Frisch [MVP]" wrote:

> I installed SP2 yesterday over an existing Windows XP SP1
> installation. After performing a Disk Cleanup and Defrag,
> I must say this computer is performing better than ever.
>
> List of fixes included in Service Pack 2 for Windows XP
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;811113&Product=winxp
>
> The final version of SP2 is not yet available to the general public for download.
> It should appear as a Critical Update sometime around August 16th on the Windows
> Update website.
>
> Check this site next week for updates to it's availability:
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/winxpsp2.mspx
>
> --
> Carey Frisch
> Microsoft MVP
> Windows XP - Shell/User
>
> Be Smart! Protect your PC!
> http://www.microsoft.com/security/protect/
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "tony" wrote:
>
> | What is wrong with all of the authors in this newsgroup. What is the hurry
> | about installing SP2?
> | Haven't they learnt yet that it isn't wise to install a new package as soon
> | as it is available as there
> | will no doubt be many bugs that will need updating within the first month.
> | (A lot of you will be aware of the ZoneAlarm 5 fiasco!)
> | I personally will not be updating with SP2 until I have seen what the
> | feedback is like in this and
> | other groups.
> | Good luck to all
> | Tony
>
>

[Johnny Lingo]

"Alias" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Johnny Lingo" > wrote in message
> news:doNRc.118737$eM2.48262@attbi_s51...
> >
> > "Alias" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Johnny Lingo" > wrote
> > > >
> > > > "Alias" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > "RA" <nomail@thisplace> wrote
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you do a lot of web work, why don't you get a newer FTP
> > > program?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cause I like that one and I've been using it for over 7 years.
> Why
> > > > learn
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > new program when this one works beautifully to meet my needs?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Alias
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That's what my sister says about Windows95
> > > > >
> > > > > Apples/oranges. I can upload what I want with WS_FTP95. I cannot
do
> > what
> > > I
> > > > > want to do with Win95. Now, do you know the answer or are you only
> > > capable
> > > > > of making snide comments?
> > > > >
> > > > > Alias
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The point I believe that RA was making is that Windows 95 is an old
> and
> > > > antiquated OS that MS doesn't even support anymore.
> > >
> > > What's that got to do with WS_FTP? It works fine on my XP Pro now and
> > worked
> > > fine on 95, 98, 98SE, W2k and Me.
> > >
> > > > The world of technology
> > > > has come a long way since then and people need to keep up. WS_FTP95
> > falls
> > > in
> > > > the same realm. Keep up with technology, or you may get left
behind.
> > >
> > > Key word: "may". Do you know???
> >
> >
> > In my opinion, YES you will be left behind at some point if you continue
> to
> > hold on to antiquated technology.
>
> Apparently, it *isn't* antiquated, despite your guessing.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > > I once knew of a group that worked for a company that I worked for
> that
> > > had
> > > > an application that worked with a very old versions of Oracle and
DOS.
> > > Many
> > > > years passed and they refused to upgrade their applications as
> > technology
> > > > advanced. It finally came to a point that it was almost impossible
to
> > > > migrate to a current version, and a large chunk of their data was
> lost.
> > > >
> > > > Bottom line: It should probably be time to move on.
> > >
> > > Another key word: "probably". Do you know???
> >
> >
> > Again, you insist on using only antiquated technology, and not move up
> from
> > time to time, you will be left behind!
>
> Apparently, it *isn't* antiquated, despite your guessing.
>
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > > http://www.ipswitch.com/Products/WS_FTP/
> > >
> > > Um, the "pro" is not free. I don't see any free programs there, do
you?
> > The
> > > one I have is. Do you know the answer to my question or can you merely
> > post
> > > an essay on computer technology that *doesn't* answer the question. A
> > simple
> > > yes or no will do.
> >
> >
> > Things in this world cost. You should not expect everything to be free!
>
> I don't. Are you saying that freeware is a bad thing? If so, when will you
> be removing your AdAware, Spybot, Spywareblaster, etc.? Do you plan to
send
> MS a check for SP2 so that you can feel better about your "world"?
>
> Why couldn't you just answer the question? And, if you didn't know the
> answer, why did you respond to the post, other than using the opportunity
to
> lamely try to put me down and expouse your thoughts on new technology and
> that a lot of things in this world are not free?
>
> Alias
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I am not concerned about losing data as WS_FTP 95 only keeps my login
> and
> > > password, no other data. The data is both on my D drive and on my host
> > > server, and not kept by WS_FTP.
> > >
> > > Alias
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>



Obviously since you are worried that WS_FTP95 will work or not after SP2,
you are already aware that your application is old and quickly becoming
antiquated. I only point out to you that many people who drag their feet in
moving to newer applications frequently become disappointed when suddenly
their application does not work, and then they start pointing at other
people and companies and blame them for their own problem. I have seen this
happen before, and I know it will happen again! Hopefully the next person
will not be you!

[Alias]

"Johnny Lingo" > wrote
>
> Obviously since you are worried that WS_FTP95 will work or not after SP2,

I'm not worried anymore. Someone who knew was nice enough to answer my
question rather than giving me a sermon and telling me things I already
know:

> you are already aware that your application is old and quickly becoming
> antiquated. I only point out to you that many people who drag their feet
in
> moving to newer applications frequently become disappointed when suddenly
> their application does not work, and then they start pointing at other
> people and companies and blame them for their own problem. I have seen
this
> happen before, and I know it will happen again! Hopefully the next person
> will not be you!

If it stops working for some reason, I'll investigate other options. Until
then, I will use it and be happy about doing so, thank you very much.

Alias

[Torgeir Bakken \(MVP\)]

Ken wrote:

> The link you posted includes a download link for SP2 for installation on
> multiple computers over a network. It is a huge file -- 272 MB. The link
> says that users of a single computer should not install this version, but
> wait for a smaller download taylored for single computers.
>
> I have a single computer, but I also have a blazing fast broadband
> connection that can download this 272 MB file in minutes. Is the problem
> here merely the size of the download, or is the problem also the network
> components presumably included in this version? In other words, other than
> having to download a bigger file, what would be the downside for me of
> installing this version of SP2 on a single computer instead of waiting until
> August 16 or whatever?
Hi

There is no downside in using this version of SP2 on a single computer,
it will not install any additional components compared to the Web
Express update that will be available later on.

An upside is that you can burn it to a CD and use it on other computers
as well :-)


--
torgeir, Microsoft MVP Scripting and WMI, Porsgrunn Norway
Administration scripting examples and an ONLINE version of
the 1328 page Scripting Guide:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter/default.mspx

[RA]

I did not mean it as a snide comment and I am sorry it appeared that way. I
should have explained. Johnny Lingo's interpretation was correct. I am
having a very difficult time with trying to get my sister up to speed so
that she can use XP well and safely. She prefers to stay with an OS that she
is familiar with and she doesn't want to deal with patches or learn about
preventing spyware or other nasties. She needs an idiot proof machine with
all the bells and whistles. I am giving her an Etch-a-Sketch for Christmas.



"Alias" > wrote in message
...
>
> "RA" <nomail@thisplace> wrote
> >
> > > > If you do a lot of web work, why don't you get a newer FTP program?
> > >
> > > Cause I like that one and I've been using it for over 7 years. Why
learn
> a
> > > new program when this one works beautifully to meet my needs?
> > >
> > > Alias
> > >
> > >
> >
> > That's what my sister says about Windows95
>
> Apples/oranges. I can upload what I want with WS_FTP95. I cannot do what I
> want to do with Win95. Now, do you know the answer or are you only capable
> of making snide comments?
>
> Alias
>
>

[Testy]

And some of the problems when you do....
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242

Testy

"Micosoft Preferred Customer" >
wrote in message ...
> Tony,
>
> The benefits of SP2 are as follows:
>
> * Pop-up ads blocked
> * Revamped firewall on by default
> * Outlook Express, Internet Explorer and Windows Messenger warn about
> attachments
> * Origins of downloaded files logged
> * Web graphics in e-mail no longer loaded by default
> * Some spyware blocked
> * Users regularly reminded about Windows Updates
> * Security Centre brings together information about anti-virus, updates
> and
> firewall
> * Protection against buffer over-runs
> * Windows Messenger Service turned off by default
> * New WI-FI setup Wizard
> * etc etc
> * etc etc
>
> Is there anything else you want to know about SP2? Incidentlly, if you
> want
> autoupdate for your system then it is anytime today 18/08/2004.
>
> SP2 is with us and so we should [all] make use of it.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> tony wrote:
>
>> What is wrong with all of the authors in this newsgroup. What is the
>> hurry
>> about installing SP2?
>> Haven't they learnt yet that it isn't wise to install a new package as
>> soon
>> as it is available as there
>> will no doubt be many bugs that will need updating within the first
>> month.
>> (A lot of you will be aware of the ZoneAlarm 5 fiasco!)
>> I personally will not be updating with SP2 until I have seen what the
>> feedback is like in this and
>> other groups.
>> Good luck to all
>> Tony
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004

[Dick Kistler]

Testy wrote:
> And some of the problems when you do....
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242
>
And here are some more:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130&product=windowsxpsp2

Dick Kistler

P.S. I still don't believe that SP2 is a vast Microsoft conspiracy to screw
up the world's computer systems. Having some programs that don't work after
a major OS update is not at all unusual, and is one of the prices we pay for
using computers. If you are worried about this, wait to install. If you have
a number of computers to maintain, certainly wait until the fixes, if any
are in place, then install. If you can afford to risk that some programs
might not work as advertised or not at all, dive in.

[Alias]

"Micosoft Preferred Customer" >
wrote in message ...
> Tony,
>
> The benefits of SP2 are as follows:
>
> * Pop-up ads blocked

Got that with Google for IE and Mozilla has it integrated in the browser.

> * Revamped firewall on by default

My Sygate is better.

> * Outlook Express, Internet Explorer and Windows Messenger warn about
> attachments

Another thing to disable ...

> * Origins of downloaded files logged

Wow! Just curious, what does that do for me?

> * Web graphics in e-mail no longer loaded by default

Another thing to disable ..

> * Some spyware blocked

As well as Spybot, Search and Destroy, Spywareblaster and Spywareguard?

> * Users regularly reminded about Windows Updates

Another thing to disable.

> * Security Centre brings together information about anti-virus, updates
and
> firewall

What a waste of time.

> * Protection against buffer over-runs

Whoa, something I don't already have! What does that do for me?

> * Windows Messenger Service turned off by default

Should have never been put in XP to begin with. If I want a messenger
program, I know where to get them.

> * New WI-FI setup Wizard

Considering how expensive WI-FI is at present, so what?

> * etc etc
> * etc etc

That's it?
>
> Is there anything else you want to know about SP2? Incidentlly, if you
want
> autoupdate for your system then it is anytime today 18/08/2004.
>
> SP2 is with us and so we should [all] make use of it.
>
> Best regards,

Can you tell me if all my programs and devices will work after I download
this modern wonder?

Alias
>
>
>
> tony wrote:
>
> > What is wrong with all of the authors in this newsgroup. What is the
hurry
> > about installing SP2?
> > Haven't they learnt yet that it isn't wise to install a new package as
soon
> > as it is available as there
> > will no doubt be many bugs that will need updating within the first
month.
> > (A lot of you will be aware of the ZoneAlarm 5 fiasco!)
> > I personally will not be updating with SP2 until I have seen what the
> > feedback is like in this and
> > other groups.
> > Good luck to all
> > Tony
>
>

[Micosoft Preferred Customer]

Tony,

The benefits of SP2 are as follows:

* Pop-up ads blocked
* Revamped firewall on by default
* Outlook Express, Internet Explorer and Windows Messenger warn about
attachments
* Origins of downloaded files logged
* Web graphics in e-mail no longer loaded by default
* Some spyware blocked
* Users regularly reminded about Windows Updates
* Security Centre brings together information about anti-virus, updates and
firewall
* Protection against buffer over-runs
* Windows Messenger Service turned off by default
* New WI-FI setup Wizard
* etc etc
* etc etc

Is there anything else you want to know about SP2? Incidentlly, if you want
autoupdate for your system then it is anytime today 18/08/2004.

SP2 is with us and so we should [all] make use of it.

Best regards,



tony wrote:

> What is wrong with all of the authors in this newsgroup. What is the hurry
> about installing SP2?
> Haven't they learnt yet that it isn't wise to install a new package as soon
> as it is available as there
> will no doubt be many bugs that will need updating within the first month.
> (A lot of you will be aware of the ZoneAlarm 5 fiasco!)
> I personally will not be updating with SP2 until I have seen what the
> feedback is like in this and
> other groups.
> Good luck to all
> Tony

[MikeP]

All of mine do, and some programs work now that didn't before SP2.

"Alias" > wrote in message
...
>
> Can you tell me if all my programs and devices will work after I download
> this modern wonder?
>

[Testy]

Wow from SP2 to a tirade about the Taliban quite a jump! My computer was very secure before SP2 I do not need MS to do my work for me, as for future "enhancements" we will have to see if they are really worth it.

Testy


"Micosoft Preferred Customer" > wrote in message ...
Testy,
The article you refer to says:

"Some programs seem to stop ......"

It does not say definitely that there are problems. It is the perception of sceptic like yourself. In any case, what are you going to do now that SP2 is here and future security enhancements will depend on SP2 preinstalled. Surely, it is time to accomodate SP2 if you want to progress in the 21st century. Taliban tried to live in their own small world and look what a fine mess they are in!! They don't even have electric shavers. No wonder men in Afghanistan have dirty beards growing in unusual places!! I feel pity on their women to put up with dirty men!!

I have just heard that the City of Munich will now not migrate its desktop to Linux because the TCO is higher using Linux. So Windows has won here again.

Regards,




Testy wrote:

And some of the problems when you do....
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242
Testy

"Micosoft Preferred Customer" >
wrote in message ...
> Tony,
>
> The benefits of SP2 are as follows:
>
> * Pop-up ads blocked
> * Revamped firewall on by default
> * Outlook Express, Internet Explorer and Windows Messenger warn about
> attachments
> * Origins of downloaded files logged
> * Web graphics in e-mail no longer loaded by default
> * Some spyware blocked
> * Users regularly reminded about Windows Updates
> * Security Centre brings together information about anti-virus, updates
> and
> firewall
> * Protection against buffer over-runs
> * Windows Messenger Service turned off by default
> * New WI-FI setup Wizard
> * etc etc
> * etc etc
>
> Is there anything else you want to know about SP2? Incidentlly, if you
> want
> autoupdate for your system then it is anytime today 18/08/2004.
>
> SP2 is with us and so we should [all] make use of it.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> tony wrote:
>
>> What is wrong with all of the authors in this newsgroup. What is the
>> hurry
>> about installing SP2?
>> Haven't they learnt yet that it isn't wise to install a new package as
>> soon
>> as it is available as there
>> will no doubt be many bugs that will need updating within the first
>> month.
>> (A lot of you will be aware of the ZoneAlarm 5 fiasco!)
>> I personally will not be updating with SP2 until I have seen what the
>> feedback is like in this and
>> other groups.
>> Good luck to all
>> Tony
>
>

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004

[John Whitworth]

"Alias" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Micosoft Preferred Customer" >
> wrote in message ...
>> Tony,
>>
>> The benefits of SP2 are as follows:
>>
>> * Pop-up ads blocked
>
> Got that with Google for IE and Mozilla has it integrated in the browser.

You are not the only Windows XP user in the world. Does Google/Mozilla also
block downloads (i.e. dialers) from automatically running and installing?

>
>> * Revamped firewall on by default
>
> My Sygate is better.

You are not the only Windows XP user in the world. I went off Sygate a
couple of years back when it severely impacted my machine's performance. I
persevered with it for a couple of months, then swapped it for Norton. The
new XP firewall is MUCH better than the SP1 effort though.

>
>> * Outlook Express, Internet Explorer and Windows Messenger warn about
>> attachments
>
> Another thing to disable ...

Or, you could just say "Don't remind me about this sort of file again."

>
>> * Origins of downloaded files logged
>
> Wow! Just curious, what does that do for me?

It isn't necessarily designed for you, but for the millions of Windows XP
users across the world.

>
>> * Web graphics in e-mail no longer loaded by default
>
> Another thing to disable ..

This is one of the best features of SP2. No more loading of filth images in
Spam mail for starters ... meaning that the sender cannot determine that you
have opened the email!

>
>> * Some spyware blocked
>
> As well as Spybot, Search and Destroy, Spywareblaster and Spywareguard?

You are not the only Windows XP user in the world.

>
>> * Users regularly reminded about Windows Updates
>
> Another thing to disable.

You are not the only Windows XP user in the world.

>
>> * Security Centre brings together information about anti-virus, updates
> and
>> firewall
>
> What a waste of time.

You are not the only Windows XP user in the world.

>
>> * Protection against buffer over-runs
>
> Whoa, something I don't already have! What does that do for me?

Er ... protects against buffer overruns!

>
>> * Windows Messenger Service turned off by default
>
> Should have never been put in XP to begin with. If I want a messenger
> program, I know where to get them.

This is Windows Messenger ... not MSN Messenger. The sort of program that
most OSs have had for many years, and which is used for company wide network
broadcasts.

>
>> * New WI-FI setup Wizard
>
> Considering how expensive WI-FI is at present, so what?

You must be on a VERY low income.

>
>> * etc etc
>> * etc etc
>
> That's it?
>>
>> Is there anything else you want to know about SP2? Incidentlly, if you
> want
>> autoupdate for your system then it is anytime today 18/08/2004.
>>
>> SP2 is with us and so we should [all] make use of it.
>>
>> Best regards,
>
> Can you tell me if all my programs and devices will work after I download
> this modern wonder?

No ... only you can do that. And if you don't like it, then uninstall it.
But don't go loading any new stuff onto the PC until you are sure the
existing stuff works, as it makes uninstalling SP2 a little messy.

>
> Alias
>>
>>
>>
>> tony wrote:
>>
>> > What is wrong with all of the authors in this newsgroup. What is the
> hurry
>> > about installing SP2?
>> > Haven't they learnt yet that it isn't wise to install a new package as
> soon
>> > as it is available as there
>> > will no doubt be many bugs that will need updating within the first
> month.
>> > (A lot of you will be aware of the ZoneAlarm 5 fiasco!)
>> > I personally will not be updating with SP2 until I have seen what the
>> > feedback is like in this and
>> > other groups.
>> > Good luck to all
>> > Tony
>>
>>
>
>

[Dick Kistler]

"Micosoft Preferred Customer" > wrote in message ...
Testy,
The article you refer to says:

"Some programs seem to stop ......"

It does not say definitely that there are problems. It is the perception of sceptic like yourself. In any case, what are you going to do now that SP2 is here and future security enhancements will depend on SP2 preinstalled. Surely, it is time to accomodate SP2 if you want to progress in the 21st century. Taliban tried to live in their own small world and look what a fine mess they are in!! They don't even have electric shavers. No wonder men in Afghanistan have dirty beards growing in unusual places!! I feel pity on their women to put up with dirty men!!

Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha! Not installing SP2 == Joining Taliban!

What does driving a 15 year old car get me?

I have just heard that the City of Munich will now not migrate its desktop to Linux because the TCO is higher using Linux. So Windows has won here again.

What exactly has Windows won? World dominance? Wait, they already have that!

Regards,




Testy wrote:

And some of the problems when you do....
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242
Testy

"Micosoft Preferred Customer" >
wrote in message ...
> Tony,
>
> The benefits of SP2 are as follows:
>
> * Pop-up ads blocked
> * Revamped firewall on by default
> * Outlook Express, Internet Explorer and Windows Messenger warn about
> attachments
> * Origins of downloaded files logged
> * Web graphics in e-mail no longer loaded by default
> * Some spyware blocked
> * Users regularly reminded about Windows Updates
> * Security Centre brings together information about anti-virus, updates
> and
> firewall
> * Protection against buffer over-runs
> * Windows Messenger Service turned off by default
> * New WI-FI setup Wizard
> * etc etc
> * etc etc
>
> Is there anything else you want to know about SP2? Incidentlly, if you
> want
> autoupdate for your system then it is anytime today 18/08/2004.
>
> SP2 is with us and so we should [all] make use of it.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> tony wrote:
>
>> What is wrong with all of the authors in this newsgroup. What is the
>> hurry
>> about installing SP2?
>> Haven't they learnt yet that it isn't wise to install a new package as
>> soon
>> as it is available as there
>> will no doubt be many bugs that will need updating within the first
>> month.
>> (A lot of you will be aware of the ZoneAlarm 5 fiasco!)
>> I personally will not be updating with SP2 until I have seen what the
>> feedback is like in this and
>> other groups.
>> Good luck to all
>> Tony
>
>

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004

[Dick Kistler]

Alias wrote:
> "Micosoft Preferred Customer"
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> Tony,
>>
>> The benefits of SP2 are as follows:
>>
>> * Pop-up ads blocked
>
> Got that with Google for IE and Mozilla has it integrated in the
> browser.
>
>> * Revamped firewall on by default
>
> My Sygate is better.
>
>> * Outlook Express, Internet Explorer and Windows Messenger warn about
>> attachments
>
> Another thing to disable ...
>
>> * Origins of downloaded files logged
>
> Wow! Just curious, what does that do for me?
>
>> * Web graphics in e-mail no longer loaded by default
>
> Another thing to disable ..
>
>> * Some spyware blocked
>
> As well as Spybot, Search and Destroy, Spywareblaster and
> Spywareguard?
>
>> * Users regularly reminded about Windows Updates
>
> Another thing to disable.
>
>> * Security Centre brings together information about anti-virus,
>> updates and firewall
>
> What a waste of time.
>
>> * Protection against buffer over-runs
>
> Whoa, something I don't already have! What does that do for me?
>
>> * Windows Messenger Service turned off by default
>
> Should have never been put in XP to begin with. If I want a messenger
> program, I know where to get them.
>
>> * New WI-FI setup Wizard
>
> Considering how expensive WI-FI is at present, so what?
>
>> * etc etc
>> * etc etc
>
> That's it?

No, its not, look here if you are really interested-8 pages of changes:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/sp2chngs.mspx

It's a free country, don't install it if you don't want to. It means a more
secure, more bug free OS to the rest of us. I installed it last Monday-the
only differences I see are that now I have automatic updates on(a trial,
we'll see how it goes) and I've been able to install the newest TouchPad
drivers that I wasn't able to before. Everything else-apps, drivers,
network, etc.-are working as advertised. So I can't see what the fuss is
about.

Dick Kistler

[Andor J Kiss]

Hello,

I've installed SP2 over a week ago and it works really well - no
problems. All this whinning is silly. A few programs have restricted
access but once the firewall is trained; no problem.

A very job job on the service pack.

L8R


"Dick Kistler" > wrote in message
...
> Alias wrote:
>> "Micosoft Preferred Customer"
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Tony,
>>>
>>> The benefits of SP2 are as follows:
>>>
>>> * Pop-up ads blocked
>>
>> Got that with Google for IE and Mozilla has it integrated in the
>> browser.
>>
>>> * Revamped firewall on by default
>>
>> My Sygate is better.
>>
>>> * Outlook Express, Internet Explorer and Windows Messenger warn about
>>> attachments
>>
>> Another thing to disable ...
>>
>>> * Origins of downloaded files logged
>>
>> Wow! Just curious, what does that do for me?
>>
>>> * Web graphics in e-mail no longer loaded by default
>>
>> Another thing to disable ..
>>
>>> * Some spyware blocked
>>
>> As well as Spybot, Search and Destroy, Spywareblaster and
>> Spywareguard?
>>
>>> * Users regularly reminded about Windows Updates
>>
>> Another thing to disable.
>>
>>> * Security Centre brings together information about anti-virus,
>>> updates and firewall
>>
>> What a waste of time.
>>
>>> * Protection against buffer over-runs
>>
>> Whoa, something I don't already have! What does that do for me?
>>
>>> * Windows Messenger Service turned off by default
>>
>> Should have never been put in XP to begin with. If I want a messenger
>> program, I know where to get them.
>>
>>> * New WI-FI setup Wizard
>>
>> Considering how expensive WI-FI is at present, so what?
>>
>>> * etc etc
>>> * etc etc
>>
>> That's it?
>
> No, its not, look here if you are really interested-8 pages of changes:
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/sp2chngs.mspx
>
> It's a free country, don't install it if you don't want to. It means a
> more secure, more bug free OS to the rest of us. I installed it last
> Monday-the only differences I see are that now I have automatic updates
> on(a trial, we'll see how it goes) and I've been able to install the
> newest TouchPad drivers that I wasn't able to before. Everything
> else-apps, drivers, network, etc.-are working as advertised. So I can't
> see what the fuss is about.
>
> Dick Kistler
>
>

[Micosoft Preferred Customer]

Testy,

The article you refer to says:

"Some programs seem to stop ......"

It does not say definitely that there are problems. It is the perception of
sceptic like yourself. In any case, what are you going to do now that SP2 is
here and future security enhancements will depend on SP2 preinstalled.
Surely, it is time to accomodate SP2 if you want to progress in the 21st
century. Taliban tried to live in their own small world and look what a fine
mess they are in!! They don't even have electric shavers. No wonder men in
Afghanistan have dirty beards growing in unusual places!! I feel pity on
their women to put up with dirty men!!

I have just heard that the City of Munich will now not migrate its desktop to
Linux because the TCO is higher using Linux. So Windows has won here again.

Regards,




Testy wrote:

> And some of the problems when you do....
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242
>
> Testy
>
> "Micosoft Preferred Customer" >
> wrote in message ...
> > Tony,
> >
> > The benefits of SP2 are as follows:
> >
> > * Pop-up ads blocked
> > * Revamped firewall on by default
> > * Outlook Express, Internet Explorer and Windows Messenger warn about
> > attachments
> > * Origins of downloaded files logged
> > * Web graphics in e-mail no longer loaded by default
> > * Some spyware blocked
> > * Users regularly reminded about Windows Updates
> > * Security Centre brings together information about anti-virus, updates
> > and
> > firewall
> > * Protection against buffer over-runs
> > * Windows Messenger Service turned off by default
> > * New WI-FI setup Wizard
> > * etc etc
> > * etc etc
> >
> > Is there anything else you want to know about SP2? Incidentlly, if you
> > want
> > autoupdate for your system then it is anytime today 18/08/2004.
> >
> > SP2 is with us and so we should [all] make use of it.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > tony wrote:
> >
> >> What is wrong with all of the authors in this newsgroup. What is the
> >> hurry
> >> about installing SP2?
> >> Haven't they learnt yet that it isn't wise to install a new package as
> >> soon
> >> as it is available as there
> >> will no doubt be many bugs that will need updating within the first
> >> month.
> >> (A lot of you will be aware of the ZoneAlarm 5 fiasco!)
> >> I personally will not be updating with SP2 until I have seen what the
> >> feedback is like in this and
> >> other groups.
> >> Good luck to all
> >> Tony
> >
> >
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004

[Alias]

Thanks for the link. I'll look it over. Oh, I am sure I will download it,
both in Spanish and in English :-)

Alias

"Dick Kistler" > wrote

> Alias wrote:
> > "Micosoft Preferred Customer"
> > > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Tony,
> >>
> >> The benefits of SP2 are as follows:
> >>
> >> * Pop-up ads blocked
> >
> > Got that with Google for IE and Mozilla has it integrated in the
> > browser.
> >
> >> * Revamped firewall on by default
> >
> > My Sygate is better.
> >
> >> * Outlook Express, Internet Explorer and Windows Messenger warn about
> >> attachments
> >
> > Another thing to disable ...
> >
> >> * Origins of downloaded files logged
> >
> > Wow! Just curious, what does that do for me?
> >
> >> * Web graphics in e-mail no longer loaded by default
> >
> > Another thing to disable ..
> >
> >> * Some spyware blocked
> >
> > As well as Spybot, Search and Destroy, Spywareblaster and
> > Spywareguard?
> >
> >> * Users regularly reminded about Windows Updates
> >
> > Another thing to disable.
> >
> >> * Security Centre brings together information about anti-virus,
> >> updates and firewall
> >
> > What a waste of time.
> >
> >> * Protection against buffer over-runs
> >
> > Whoa, something I don't already have! What does that do for me?
> >
> >> * Windows Messenger Service turned off by default
> >
> > Should have never been put in XP to begin with. If I want a messenger
> > program, I know where to get them.
> >
> >> * New WI-FI setup Wizard
> >
> > Considering how expensive WI-FI is at present, so what?
> >
> >> * etc etc
> >> * etc etc
> >
> > That's it?
>
> No, its not, look here if you are really interested-8 pages of changes:
>
>
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/sp2chngs.mspx
>
> It's a free country, don't install it if you don't want to. It means a
more
> secure, more bug free OS to the rest of us. I installed it last Monday-the
> only differences I see are that now I have automatic updates on(a trial,
> we'll see how it goes) and I've been able to install the newest TouchPad
> drivers that I wasn't able to before. Everything else-apps, drivers,
> network, etc.-are working as advertised. So I can't see what the fuss is
> about.
>
> Dick Kistler
>
>

[Testy]

Well, I remember when SP1 wasfirst released and many problems were reported
here. The vast majaroruty of prople were understanding, considerae and
helpful.


Now eith the release of SP2 problems are still reported her but people are
critical, condenscending and spend more time attacking those with problems
and defendinf SP2 than they do helping people. I find the whole tone here
especially from several MVP's to be very rude!

Testy



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004

[Testy]

Well, I remember when SP1 was first released and many problems were reported
here. The vast majority of people were understanding, considerate and
helpful.


Now with the release of SP2 problems are still reported here but people are
critical, condescending and spend more time attacking those with problems
and defending SP2 than they do helping people. I find the whole tone here
especially from several MVP's to be very rude!

Testy



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004

[CS]

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 20:10:35 -0400, "Dick Kistler"
> wrote:

>
> "Micosoft Preferred Customer" > wrote in message ...
> Testy,
> The article you refer to says:
>
> "Some programs seem to stop ......"
>
> It does not say definitely that there are problems. It is the perception of sceptic like yourself. In any case, what are you going to do now that SP2 is here and future security enhancements will depend on SP2 preinstalled. Surely, it is time to accomodate SP2 if you want to progress in the 21st century. Taliban tried to live in their own small world and look what a fine mess they are in!! They don't even have electric shavers. No wonder men in Afghanistan have dirty beards growing in unusual places!! I feel pity on their women to put up with dirty men!!
>
> Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha! Not installing SP2 == Joining Taliban!
>
> What does driving a 15 year old car get me?
>
> I have just heard that the City of Munich will now not migrate its desktop to Linux because the TCO is higher using Linux. So Windows has won here again.
>
> What exactly has Windows won? World dominance? Wait, they already have that!

Another victory for the Evil Empire! I can hardly wait to have the
Microsoft Logo embossed on my driver's license or my National ID card.
Be the first to get yours Dick, but don't forget to activate it!

[Dick Kistler]

Testy wrote:
> Well, I remember when SP1 wasfirst released and many problems were
> reported here. The vast majaroruty of prople were understanding,
> considerae and helpful.
>
>
> Now eith the release of SP2 problems are still reported her but
> people are critical, condenscending and spend more time attacking
> those with problems and defendinf SP2 than they do helping people. I
> find the whole tone here especially from several MVP's to be very
> rude!
> Testy

So far, in this thread, I haven't seen anybody with a real problem. If you
think the microsoft groups are rude, you should try some of the linux
groups. Over there, before a question is considered, the poster has to make
a substantial effort to solve the problem on his own. That means if you
don't give evidence that you have searched Google, searched all relevant
newsgroups, mailing lists, buglists, etc., and tried 5 or 6 ways to solve
the problem on your own, they won't give you a civil reply. And don't even
think about asking a question until you read:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html. And comply with its
suggestions.

The posters here are milqtoasts compared to the ones there.

Dick Kistler


Dick Kistler


>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004

[Dick Kistler]

>
> Another victory for the Evil Empire! I can hardly wait to have the
> Microsoft Logo embossed on my driver's license or my National ID card.
> Be the first to get yours Dick, but don't forget to activate it!

Well, I'm waiting for the barcode on my forehead, but I haven't figured out
how to do the activation yet.

Dick

[Testy]

Well I expect linux users to be rude and ignorant, however that was not the
case here until recently.

Testy

"Dick Kistler" > wrote in message
...
> Testy wrote:
>> Well, I remember when SP1 wasfirst released and many problems were
>> reported here. The vast majaroruty of prople were understanding,
>> considerae and helpful.
>>
>>
>> Now eith the release of SP2 problems are still reported her but
>> people are critical, condenscending and spend more time attacking
>> those with problems and defendinf SP2 than they do helping people. I
>> find the whole tone here especially from several MVP's to be very
>> rude!
>> Testy
>
> So far, in this thread, I haven't seen anybody with a real problem. If you
> think the microsoft groups are rude, you should try some of the linux
> groups. Over there, before a question is considered, the poster has to
> make a substantial effort to solve the problem on his own. That means if
> you don't give evidence that you have searched Google, searched all
> relevant newsgroups, mailing lists, buglists, etc., and tried 5 or 6 ways
> to solve the problem on your own, they won't give you a civil reply. And
> don't even think about asking a question until you read:
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html. And comply with its
> suggestions.
>
> The posters here are milqtoasts compared to the ones there.
>
> Dick Kistler
>
>
> Dick Kistler
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>> Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004

[Dick Kistler]

Testy wrote:
> Well I expect linux users to be rude and ignorant, however that was
> not the case here until recently.
>

Yup, that's me, rude and arrogant. the reason I can see so far is that I'm
surrounded by dwarves.

Dick

[Rick]

Ok so wait if you think that M$ has done such a good job with XP.
Nobody is twisting your arm to install SP2. What is the problem?

Rick

tony wrote:
> What is wrong with all of the authors in this newsgroup. What is the hurry
> about installing SP2?
> Haven't they learnt yet that it isn't wise to install a new package as soon
> as it is available as there
> will no doubt be many bugs that will need updating within the first month.
> (A lot of you will be aware of the ZoneAlarm 5 fiasco!)
> I personally will not be updating with SP2 until I have seen what the
> feedback is like in this and
> other groups.
> Good luck to all
> Tony
>
>

[hermes]

Dick Kistler wrote:

>Testy wrote:
>
>
>>Well, I remember when SP1 wasfirst released and many problems were
>>reported here. The vast majaroruty of prople were understanding,
>>considerae and helpful.
>>
>>
>>Now eith the release of SP2 problems are still reported her but
>>people are critical, condenscending and spend more time attacking
>>those with problems and defendinf SP2 than they do helping people. I
>>find the whole tone here especially from several MVP's to be very
>>rude!
>>Testy
>>
>>
>
>So far, in this thread, I haven't seen anybody with a real problem. If you
>think the microsoft groups are rude, you should try some of the linux
>groups. Over there, before a question is considered, the poster has to make
>a substantial effort to solve the problem on his own. That means if you
>don't give evidence that you have searched Google, searched all relevant
>newsgroups, mailing lists, buglists, etc., and tried 5 or 6 ways to solve
>the problem on your own, they won't give you a civil reply. And don't even
>think about asking a question until you read:
>http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html. And comply with its
>suggestions.
>
>The posters here are milqtoasts compared to the ones there.
>
>Dick Kistler
>
>
>Dick Kistler
>
>
>
>
>>
>>---
>>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>>Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
I've never had a problem in the few linux groups I posted in.

--
hermes
DRM sux! Treacherous Computing kills our virtual civil liberties!
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/index.html
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html
http://anti-dmca.org/
http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/unintended_consequences.php

Windows XP crashed.
I am the Blue Screen of Death.
No one hears your screams

[RJ]

>>My computer was very secure before SP2 I do not need MS to do my work for me, as for future "enhancements" we will have to see if they are really worth it.<<

Agreed. And I will wait until SP2a, and then see if I need it.



"Testy" > wrote in message ...
Wow from SP2 to a tirade about the Taliban quite a jump! My computer was very secure before SP2 I do not need MS to do my work for me, as for future "enhancements" we will have to see if they are really worth it.

Testy


"Micosoft Preferred Customer" > wrote in message ...
Testy,
The article you refer to says:

"Some programs seem to stop ......"

It does not say definitely that there are problems. It is the perception of sceptic like yourself. In any case, what are you going to do now that SP2 is here and future security enhancements will depend on SP2 preinstalled. Surely, it is time to accomodate SP2 if you want to progress in the 21st century. Taliban tried to live in their own small world and look what a fine mess they are in!! They don't even have electric shavers. No wonder men in Afghanistan have dirty beards growing in unusual places!! I feel pity on their women to put up with dirty men!!

I have just heard that the City of Munich will now not migrate its desktop to Linux because the TCO is higher using Linux. So Windows has won here again.

Regards,




Testy wrote:

And some of the problems when you do....
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242
Testy

"Micosoft Preferred Customer" >
wrote in message ...
> Tony,
>
> The benefits of SP2 are as follows:
>
> * Pop-up ads blocked
> * Revamped firewall on by default
> * Outlook Express, Internet Explorer and Windows Messenger warn about
> attachments
> * Origins of downloaded files logged
> * Web graphics in e-mail no longer loaded by default
> * Some spyware blocked
> * Users regularly reminded about Windows Updates
> * Security Centre brings together information about anti-virus, updates
> and
> firewall
> * Protection against buffer over-runs
> * Windows Messenger Service turned off by default
> * New WI-FI setup Wizard
> * etc etc
> * etc etc
>
> Is there anything else you want to know about SP2? Incidentlly, if you
> want
> autoupdate for your system then it is anytime today 18/08/2004.
>
> SP2 is with us and so we should [all] make use of it.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> tony wrote:
>
>> What is wrong with all of the authors in this newsgroup. What is the
>> hurry
>> about installing SP2?
>> Haven't they learnt yet that it isn't wise to install a new package as
>> soon
>> as it is available as there
>> will no doubt be many bugs that will need updating within the first
>> month.
>> (A lot of you will be aware of the ZoneAlarm 5 fiasco!)
>> I personally will not be updating with SP2 until I have seen what the
>> feedback is like in this and
>> other groups.
>> Good luck to all
>> Tony
>
>

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[Greg R]

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 21:52:48 -0400, "Dick Kistler"
> wrote:

>Testy wrote:
>> Well, I remember when SP1 wasfirst released and many problems were
>> reported here. The vast majaroruty of prople were understanding,
>> considerae and helpful.
>>
>>
>> Now eith the release of SP2 problems are still reported her but
>> people are critical, condenscending and spend more time attacking
>> those with problems and defendinf SP2 than they do helping people. I
>> find the whole tone here especially from several MVP's to be very
>> rude!
>> Testy
>
>So far, in this thread, I haven't seen anybody with a real problem. If you
>think the microsoft groups are rude, you should try some of the linux
>groups. Over there, before a question is considered, the poster has to make
>a substantial effort to solve the problem on his own. That means if you
>don't give evidence that you have searched Google, searched all relevant
>newsgroups, mailing lists, buglists, etc., and tried 5 or 6 ways to solve
>the problem on your own, they won't give you a civil reply. And don't even
>think about asking a question until you read:
>http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html. And comply with its
>suggestions.

The Linux people don’t help new comers to Linux. They expect you to
become a programmer and know everything. They also tell you to go
out and buy a book. And they are wandering why people are not moving
to Linux. Duh.

The old Linux people don’t even use kde desktop, they use what I call
a command line for everything. Like dos.


Not everybody has time to answer all the questions here either.
Now, Some are rude and so are some of the post asking the questions
I not talking about mvp people either. Also, my post may appear
rude. I don’t mean it to be. I just have trouble putting things
into writing. So could other people. Some people try to joke but
come across as being rude. I have not see anyone mvp be rude unless
someone was being rude to them.


Greg R


Greg

>The posters here are milqtoasts compared to the ones there.
>
>Dick Kistler
>
>
>Dick Kistler
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>> Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004
>

[Dick Kistler]

">
> The Linux people don't help new comers to Linux. They expect you to
> become a programmer and know everything. They also tell you to go
> out and buy a book. And they are wandering why people are not moving
> to Linux. Duh.

Yes, you're right, they tell you to go out and buy a book. Yes, they're
probably
right, you would learn Linux quicker and better if you go buy a book and
read it. Yes, you're right, some people are turned off by such an attitude:
That you should try to learn about Linux on your own. Yes, they are right
that you would probably be in a better position to solve problems in the
future if you learned more about Linux on your own. Windows too.

>
> The old Linux people don't even use kde desktop, they use what I call
> a command line for everything. Like dos.

Doubtful that many Linux users only use the command line interface. Likely
that
many Linux users use BOTH the command line and graphical user interface.

>
>
> Not everybody has time to answer all the questions here either.
> Now, Some are rude and so are some of the post asking the questions
> I not talking about mvp people either. Also, my post may appear
> rude. I don't mean it to be. I just have trouble putting things
> into writing. So could other people. Some people try to joke but
> come across as being rude. I have not see anyone mvp be rude unless
> someone was being rude to them.

My own opinion is that a great many of the posters here would solve
their problems quicker on Google than they do here. And that many more could
solve their problems just by reading previous posts on this newsgroup.

It's hard to be too sympathetic to people that don't figure out those two
things.

Some people would say that there are no stupid questions. Any school kid
can tell you that there are at least two stupid questions. The first is a
question
that shows that you aren't listening. The second is a question that shows
that
you haven't done your homework. These statements also hold true on these
and any other newsgroups.

Dick Kistler

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

The only real stupid question is the one that isn't asked.
If there is anyone here who can't understand that basic fact, they
should either go away or calmly and politely learn to live with it.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Dick Kistler" > wrote in message news:%
> Some people would say that there are no stupid questions. Any school
> kid
> can tell you that there are at least two stupid questions. The first
> is a question
> that shows that you aren't listening. The second is a question that
> shows that
> you haven't done your homework. These statements also hold true on
> these
> and any other newsgroups.
>
> Dick Kistler

[Dick Kistler]

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message
...
> The only real stupid question is the one that isn't asked.
> If there is anyone here who can't understand that basic fact, they should
> either go away or calmly and politely learn to live with it.
>
> --

So legend says. But if you don't ask the question, and go find
a book with the answer in it, or figure out the solution on your own
by some other means, you will have solved your problem and
learned something(maybe many things) that you can use in the future.
In addition, you have learned that you can solve some problems on
your own. And you have put yourself in a position to ask better
questions in the future, since by knowing more, you can ask more
pertinent questions.

While I think that you have to ask questions to learn, it is more useful
in both the short and long runs to use all the facilities and capabilities
available to solve problems.

I stand by my previous post.

Dick Kistler

[Dick Kistler]

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message
...
> The only real stupid question is the one that isn't asked.
> If there is anyone here who can't understand that basic fact, they should
> either go away or calmly and politely learn to live with it.
>
> --
Later, I also think that this old aphorism is mostly applicable
to situations where your fears and feelings are involved.
Say you are talking to your doctor-there there may be no
stupid questions. Or your vet, or even your minister.

When your are problem solving, I just don't think that is true.
As a matter of fact not asking a stupid question may be a
great driving force for many to actually solve problems on
their own. Or maybe you ask the questions that you know
are stupid to yourself, and try to answer them yourself before
you ask them in public. The lesson is "do your homework."

Tell me, isn't it frustrating to answer the same question,
like: "Where can I download SP2" again and again,
when the answer is just 3 or 4 posts down in the list?
In that case, maybe telling the poster to Google it may
be more helpful to both him and you. He will have learned
that Google is a great resource to answer his questions
and you will be able to go on to questions where your
expertise, if any, will be better utilized. The lesson is:
"Listen in class." and apply what you've learned.

Dick

[Greg R]

Snipped

>When your are problem solving, I just don't think that is true.
>As a matter of fact not asking a stupid question may be a
>great driving force for many to actually solve problems on
>their own. Or maybe you ask the questions that you know
>are stupid to yourself, and try to answer them yourself before
>you ask them in public. The lesson is "do your homework."
>
>Tell me, isn't it frustrating to answer the same question,

>like: "Where can I download SP2" again and again,
>when the answer is just 3 or 4 posts down in the list?

snipped

Actual a bad example. One post say it will be automatic on Aug 16,
2004 another says it will be released to the home user on Aug 18,
2004 and pro user later. I bet that makes the pro user mad.


Greg R

[Dick Kistler]

"Greg R" > wrote in message
...
> Snipped
>
>>When your are problem solving, I just don't think that is true.
>>As a matter of fact not asking a stupid question may be a
>>great driving force for many to actually solve problems on
>>their own. Or maybe you ask the questions that you know
>>are stupid to yourself, and try to answer them yourself before
>>you ask them in public. The lesson is "do your homework."
>>
>>Tell me, isn't it frustrating to answer the same question,
>
>>like: "Where can I download SP2" again and again,
>>when the answer is just 3 or 4 posts down in the list?
>
> snipped
>
> Actual a bad example. One post say it will be automatic on Aug 16,
> 2004 another says it will be released to the home user on Aug 18,
> 2004 and pro user later. I bet that makes the pro user mad.
>
>
> Greg R
>

Not really, there was a post early yesterday that contained a
link that indicated that Microsoft had delayed their schedule
by 9 days to allow network administrators to apply the patch
that allowed Windows Update to be set to automatic and
NOT download SP2. So if you had read the posts you would
know the answer to the question.

Dick

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Over the last several months there have been almost countless posts
giving the "Facts" about SP-2, most have turned out to be false.
So referring to a post early yesterday is almost worthless unless it
had a reference to a Microsoft link.
Many of the posts with "facts" cited Microsoft sources but they could
not be verified directly at Microsoft and were later shown to be
false.
That particular post is likely correct but the past few months proves
again that simply a post is in itself worthless without a Microsoft
link.

There are many ways to ask and answer a question.
There are good ways and bad ways to suggest people research before
asking.
Some feel it necessary to insult those that ask an old question.
If it is done improperly it can have the effect stifling the asking of
questions and thus stop many of those that need it most.
There are already to many insecure computers without discouraging
those that at least know enough to ask.

To repeat what I said before:
"If there is anyone here who can't understand that basic fact, they
should either go away or calmly and politely learn to live with it."

People who feel it is "frustrating to answer the same question" need
to learn to deal with it or perhaps these newsgroups are the wrong
place for them.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Dick Kistler" > wrote in message
> Not really, there was a post early yesterday that contained a
> link that indicated that Microsoft had delayed their schedule
> by 9 days to allow network administrators to apply the patch
> that allowed Windows Update to be set to automatic and
> NOT download SP2. So if you had read the posts you would
> know the answer to the question.
>
> Dick
>

[Tom]

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message =
...

> To repeat what I said before:
> "If there is anyone here who can't understand that basic fact, they=20
> should either go away or calmly and politely learn to live with it."
>=20
> People who feel it is "frustrating to answer the same question" need=20
> to learn to deal with it or perhaps these newsgroups are the wrong=20
> place for them.

Funny, MPT doesn't share this view, she attacks others all the time for =
asking questions that have been asked over and over again. Will you use =
this caveat on her as she continues her diatribes?

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

MPT?
Is "MPT" the standard you use to measure how you do your own posts?
If you feel that way about "MPT", perhaps you should use a different
standard.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Tom" > wrote in message
...
Funny, MPT doesn't share this view, she attacks others all the time
for asking questions that have been asked over and over again. Will
you use this caveat on her as she continues her diatribes?

[Tom]

Oh dear!

You are one of the worst here when answering directly, nothing more than =
defensive posturing from your part. If you cannot answer a question =
directly, then why bother. You make statements to what you think these =
forums are for, yet you avoid standing up for it, to the worst of the =
offenders. I need no other standard, I don't attack people for simply =
making posts, or asking questions. I do however, dislike people who do. =
Your standards are fairly poor if you consider the post you made to =
which I replied, which you conveniently cut:

> People who feel it is "frustrating to answer the same question" need=20
> to learn to deal with it or perhaps these newsgroups are the wrong=20
> place for them..

Keep this in mind, next time you get "frustrated"!

...
> MPT?
> Is "MPT" the standard you use to measure how you do your own posts?
> If you feel that way about "MPT", perhaps you should use a different=20
> standard.
>=20
> --=20
> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/
>=20
>=20
> "Tom" > wrote in message=20
> ...
> Funny, MPT doesn't share this view, she attacks others all the time=20
> for asking questions that have been asked over and over again. Will=20
> you use this caveat on her as she continues her diatribes?=20
>=20
>

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Apparently you missed the question mark after MPT in my last post.
That was meant to mean I do not know what MPT means.
So I can not answer until I know what you ask?

I do not get frustrated at all with people asking the questions even
if it is the same question repeatedly.
So frustration is not an issue for me at all.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Tom" > wrote in message
...
Oh dear!

You are one of the worst here when answering directly, nothing more
than defensive posturing from your part. If you cannot answer a
question directly, then why bother. You make statements to what you
think these forums are for, yet you avoid standing up for it, to the
worst of the offenders. I need no other standard, I don't attack
people for simply making posts, or asking questions. I do however,
dislike people who do. Your standards are fairly poor if you consider
the post you made to which I replied, which you conveniently cut:

> People who feel it is "frustrating to answer the same question" need
> to learn to deal with it or perhaps these newsgroups are the wrong
> place for them..

Keep this in mind, next time you get "frustrated"!

...
> MPT?
> Is "MPT" the standard you use to measure how you do your own posts?
> If you feel that way about "MPT", perhaps you should use a different
> standard.
>
> --
> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/

[Greg R]

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:00:48 -0600, "Jupiter Jones [MVP]"
> wrote:

>Apparently you missed the question mark after MPT in my last post.
>That was meant to mean I do not know what MPT means.
>So I can not answer until I know what you ask?
>
>I do not get frustrated at all with people asking the questions even
>if it is the same question repeatedly.
>So frustration is not an issue for me at all.

Hey, Jupiter.
I Think people are getting you mixed up with the fake Jupiter.
However, I wish I knew what to look for in the headers.
To tell you apart from the fake one

Greg R

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Greg;
telus.net is mine.
Impostor...somewhere else.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Greg R" > wrote in message > Hey, Jupiter.
> I Think people are getting you mixed up with the fake Jupiter.
> However, I wish I knew what to look for in the headers.
> To tell you apart from the fake one
>
> Greg R

[Rick]

Greg R wrote:
> Snipped
>
>
>>When your are problem solving, I just don't think that is true.
>>As a matter of fact not asking a stupid question may be a
>>great driving force for many to actually solve problems on
>>their own. Or maybe you ask the questions that you know
>>are stupid to yourself, and try to answer them yourself before
>>you ask them in public. The lesson is "do your homework."
>>
>>Tell me, isn't it frustrating to answer the same question,
>
>
>>like: "Where can I download SP2" again and again,
>>when the answer is just 3 or 4 posts down in the list?
>
>
> snipped
>
> Actual a bad example. One post say it will be automatic on Aug 16,
> 2004 another says it will be released to the home user on Aug 18,
> 2004 and pro user later. I bet that makes the pro user mad.
>
>
> Greg R
>
And M$ says Aug 25