SP2 for non-IT people [Archive]

jeff4379

August 18th 04, 07:36 PM

So the fact that microsoft explicitly says "IF YOU ARE A HOME USER, DO NOT
DOWNLOAD THIS VERSION" means nothing to you? I see...obviously you know
more than microsoft.

From MS website:

This installation package is intended for IT professionals and developers
downloading and installing on multiple computers on a network. If you're
updating just one computer, please visit http://www.microsoft.com/protect

(http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=049C9DBE-3B8E-4F30
-8245-9E368D3CDB5A&displaylang=en)

"Ken Blake" > wrote in message
...
> In ,
> jeff4379 > typed:
>
> > If you are not an IT professional testing SP2, don't download
> > it and
> > install it. Wait until you are offered it through automatic
> > updates
> > or Windows updates.
>
>
> No, that's not a reason to wait.
>
>
> > The current version: Windows XP Service Pack 2
> > Network Installation Package for IT Professionals and
> > Developers is
> > not meant for home use.
>
>
> It's meant for any kind of use, home or otherwise. It's an image
> of the complete installation CD. For that reason, it's
> big--266MB. If you get it from Windows Update, it will be
> smaller--80-100MB or so--because it will be customized for *your*
> computer.
>
> Other than its being a larger download, there is no disadvantage
> to the Network Installation download, for home users or any other
> kind of users. And the Network Installation package has the
> advantage for many people (even home users) that a single
> download will let them use it on several computers.
>
> --
> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
> Please reply to the newsgroup
>
>

jeff4379

August 18th 04, 07:37 PM

Rubish? Please furnish some proof to that claim.

"Gordon" > wrote in message
...
> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
> ...
> > If you are not an IT professional testing SP2, don't download it and
> > install
> > it. Wait until you are offered it through automatic updates or Windows
> > updates. The current version: Windows XP Service Pack 2 Network
> > Installation Package for IT Professionals and Developers is not meant
for
> > home use.
> >
> >
> >
>
> What a load of rubbish.
>
>

jeff4379

August 18th 04, 07:38 PM

I wouldn't give this download to a friend or family member. Personally, as
an IT Professional, I am waiting serveral months to install this update
(after extensively testing it on a non-production machine)

Jeff

"D M" > wrote in message
...
> It is if you have a number of machines on a network, then there are the
> friends and neighbours who rely on you to consider as well.
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.737 / Virus Database: 491 - Release Date: 11/08/2004
>
>

jeff4379

August 18th 04, 07:47 PM

Here is exactly why I would not give a blanket statement saying "everyone
shoudl install SP2 right away"

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130&product=windowsxpsp2

"jeff4379" > wrote in message
...
> If you are not an IT professional testing SP2, don't download it and
install
> it. Wait until you are offered it through automatic updates or Windows
> updates. The current version: Windows XP Service Pack 2 Network
> Installation Package for IT Professionals and Developers is not meant for
> home use.
>
>
>

Phil

August 18th 04, 07:53 PM

That's just because they don't want that server to get slammed by millions
of users trying to download it. They want it available for business users.
The windows update server can handle alot more traffic and downloads, so
that's why they want home users to wait. It's just a bandwidth issue, not an
issue with the network version and home users.

"jeff4379" > wrote in message

> So the fact that microsoft explicitly says "IF YOU ARE A HOME USER,
> DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS VERSION" means nothing to you? I
> see...obviously you know more than microsoft.
>
> From MS website:
>
> This installation package is intended for IT professionals and
> developers downloading and installing on multiple computers on a
> network. If you're updating just one computer, please visit
> http://www.microsoft.com/protect
>
> (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=049C9DBE-3B8E-4F30
> -8245-9E368D3CDB5A&displaylang=en)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Ken Blake" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In ,
>> jeff4379 > typed:
>>
>>> If you are not an IT professional testing SP2, don't download
>>> it and
>>> install it. Wait until you are offered it through automatic
>>> updates
>>> or Windows updates.
>>
>>
>> No, that's not a reason to wait.
>>
>>
>>> The current version: Windows XP Service Pack 2
>>> Network Installation Package for IT Professionals and
>>> Developers is
>>> not meant for home use.
>>
>>
>> It's meant for any kind of use, home or otherwise. It's an image
>> of the complete installation CD. For that reason, it's
>> big--266MB. If you get it from Windows Update, it will be
>> smaller--80-100MB or so--because it will be customized for *your*
>> computer.
>>
>> Other than its being a larger download, there is no disadvantage
>> to the Network Installation download, for home users or any other
>> kind of users. And the Network Installation package has the
>> advantage for many people (even home users) that a single
>> download will let them use it on several computers.
>>
>> --
>> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
>> Please reply to the newsgroup

jeff4379

August 18th 04, 07:58 PM

I'm sure there are many more than just one server uploading that file, and
that bandwidth is not an issue on Microsoft's side...But the fact is
Microsoft says explicitly not to download this IT PROFESSIONAL AND
DEVELOPERS version if you are updating you home pc.

"Phil" > wrote in message
...
> That's just because they don't want that server to get slammed by millions
> of users trying to download it. They want it available for business users.
> The windows update server can handle alot more traffic and downloads, so
> that's why they want home users to wait. It's just a bandwidth issue, not
an
> issue with the network version and home users.
>
> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
>
> > So the fact that microsoft explicitly says "IF YOU ARE A HOME USER,
> > DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS VERSION" means nothing to you? I
> > see...obviously you know more than microsoft.
> >
> > From MS website:
> >
> > This installation package is intended for IT professionals and
> > developers downloading and installing on multiple computers on a
> > network. If you're updating just one computer, please visit
> > http://www.microsoft.com/protect
> >
> >
(http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=049C9DBE-3B8E-4F30
> > -8245-9E368D3CDB5A&displaylang=en)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Ken Blake" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> In ,
> >> jeff4379 > typed:
> >>
> >>> If you are not an IT professional testing SP2, don't download
> >>> it and
> >>> install it. Wait until you are offered it through automatic
> >>> updates
> >>> or Windows updates.
> >>
> >>
> >> No, that's not a reason to wait.
> >>
> >>
> >>> The current version: Windows XP Service Pack 2
> >>> Network Installation Package for IT Professionals and
> >>> Developers is
> >>> not meant for home use.
> >>
> >>
> >> It's meant for any kind of use, home or otherwise. It's an image
> >> of the complete installation CD. For that reason, it's
> >> big--266MB. If you get it from Windows Update, it will be
> >> smaller--80-100MB or so--because it will be customized for *your*
> >> computer.
> >>
> >> Other than its being a larger download, there is no disadvantage
> >> to the Network Installation download, for home users or any other
> >> kind of users. And the Network Installation package has the
> >> advantage for many people (even home users) that a single
> >> download will let them use it on several computers.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
> >> Please reply to the newsgroup
>
>

Phil

August 18th 04, 08:01 PM

I'm using at least 10 of those listed programs with not one problem, error,
crash, or hic-up with SP2. All works fine for me. Says on the site that it
may cause problems. Didn't for me. I say, install it, if you have probs,
uninstall it until the software companies update their software.

"jeff4379" > wrote in message

> Here is exactly why I would not give a blanket statement saying
> "everyone shoudl install SP2 right away"
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130&product=windowsxpsp2
>
>
>
>
> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
> ...
>> If you are not an IT professional testing SP2, don't download it and
>> install it. Wait until you are offered it through automatic updates
>> or Windows updates. The current version: Windows XP Service Pack 2
>> Network Installation Package for IT Professionals and Developers is
>> not meant for home use.

Phil

August 18th 04, 08:16 PM

Like I just said, they only say that because they want home users to use
windows update or automatic updates. They don't want 10 million home users
downloading the 250+mb version from the network install site. Bandwidth is
an issue as it costs ms money to offer these updates via the net. Everyone
pays for bandwidth, even ms.
There is absolutely NO difference at all between the two versions except one
is the full version and one is the express version. MS would rather have you
download the smaller express version because most won't need everything the
full version updates as they may have some sp2 updates installed already.
Yes, ms says for home users not to download that version, I don't dispute
that. I'm just telling you why they say that. Home users with broadband
connections can do the network version with no probs. I've already installed
the network version on 10+ home versions without one problem at all.

"jeff4379" > wrote in message

> I'm sure there are many more than just one server uploading that
> file, and that bandwidth is not an issue on Microsoft's side...But
> the fact is Microsoft says explicitly not to download this IT
> PROFESSIONAL AND DEVELOPERS version if you are updating you home pc.
>
>
> "Phil" > wrote in message
> ...
>> That's just because they don't want that server to get slammed by
>> millions of users trying to download it. They want it available for
>> business users. The windows update server can handle alot more
>> traffic and downloads, so that's why they want home users to wait.
>> It's just a bandwidth issue, not an issue with the network version
>> and home users.
>>
>> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
>>
>>> So the fact that microsoft explicitly says "IF YOU ARE A HOME USER,
>>> DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS VERSION" means nothing to you? I
>>> see...obviously you know more than microsoft.
>>>
>>> From MS website:
>>>
>>> This installation package is intended for IT professionals and
>>> developers downloading and installing on multiple computers on a
>>> network. If you're updating just one computer, please visit
>>> http://www.microsoft.com/protect
>>>
>>>
> (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=049C9DBE-3B8E-4F30
>>> -8245-9E368D3CDB5A&displaylang=en)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Ken Blake" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> In ,
>>>> jeff4379 > typed:
>>>>
>>>>> If you are not an IT professional testing SP2, don't download
>>>>> it and
>>>>> install it. Wait until you are offered it through automatic
>>>>> updates
>>>>> or Windows updates.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No, that's not a reason to wait.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The current version: Windows XP Service Pack 2
>>>>> Network Installation Package for IT Professionals and
>>>>> Developers is
>>>>> not meant for home use.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's meant for any kind of use, home or otherwise. It's an image
>>>> of the complete installation CD. For that reason, it's
>>>> big--266MB. If you get it from Windows Update, it will be
>>>> smaller--80-100MB or so--because it will be customized for *your*
>>>> computer.
>>>>
>>>> Other than its being a larger download, there is no disadvantage
>>>> to the Network Installation download, for home users or any other
>>>> kind of users. And the Network Installation package has the
>>>> advantage for many people (even home users) that a single
>>>> download will let them use it on several computers.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
>>>> Please reply to the newsgroup

luminos

August 18th 04, 08:16 PM

Yes, those programs 'behave differently.' They do not stop working, at
least the ones I have. The different behavior is because of the Security
Center now built in. Outlook etc. run perfectly well...but the behavior is
slightly changed.

"jeff4379" > wrote in message
...
> Here is exactly why I would not give a blanket statement saying "everyone
> shoudl install SP2 right away"
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130&product=windowsxpsp2
>
>
>
>
> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
> ...
>> If you are not an IT professional testing SP2, don't download it and
> install
>> it. Wait until you are offered it through automatic updates or Windows
>> updates. The current version: Windows XP Service Pack 2 Network
>> Installation Package for IT Professionals and Developers is not meant for
>> home use.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

August 18th 04, 08:19 PM

Regardless of what the website says, that is perfectly suitable for
home users.
Once installed there is no difference from the Express Installation.
If you think there is a difference once installed, please cite the
source for this information.
Microsoft prefers home users use the Express download because it is
smaller.
Thus there will be less a burden on the servers and those that are
ready for SP-2 can get it sooner.

If someone has multiple computers to update, even a home user, this
download can easily be best for them.

Judging from another post of yours in this thread it now seems you
have a different reason based on the link you posted.
Many have no issues at all with any of those applications.
That is why it says "Programs that may..."
No one is suggesting anyone give a "blanket statement saying "everyone
should install SP2 right away" "
where have you seen such a statement?

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/

"jeff4379" > wrote in message
...
> If you are not an IT professional testing SP2, don't download it and
> install
> it. Wait until you are offered it through automatic updates or
> Windows
> updates. The current version: Windows XP Service Pack 2 Network
> Installation Package for IT Professionals and Developers is not
> meant for
> home use.
>
>
>

jeff4379

August 18th 04, 08:31 PM

Whether or not the download works or not is not the issue either. Unless I
see something on the MS site that says it is ok for a common user to
download this package, I will not suggest it.

What you suggest about bandwidth makes sense, but that is not an official
microsoft answer.

Can you difinitively say that there is no difference between the current IT
and Developer release and the AU/WU release?
"Phil" > wrote in message
...
> Like I just said, they only say that because they want home users to use
> windows update or automatic updates. They don't want 10 million home users
> downloading the 250+mb version from the network install site. Bandwidth is
> an issue as it costs ms money to offer these updates via the net. Everyone
> pays for bandwidth, even ms.
> There is absolutely NO difference at all between the two versions except
one
> is the full version and one is the express version. MS would rather have
you
> download the smaller express version because most won't need everything
the
> full version updates as they may have some sp2 updates installed already.
> Yes, ms says for home users not to download that version, I don't dispute
> that. I'm just telling you why they say that. Home users with broadband
> connections can do the network version with no probs. I've already
installed
> the network version on 10+ home versions without one problem at all.
>
> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
>
> > I'm sure there are many more than just one server uploading that
> > file, and that bandwidth is not an issue on Microsoft's side...But
> > the fact is Microsoft says explicitly not to download this IT
> > PROFESSIONAL AND DEVELOPERS version if you are updating you home pc.
> >
> >
> > "Phil" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> That's just because they don't want that server to get slammed by
> >> millions of users trying to download it. They want it available for
> >> business users. The windows update server can handle alot more
> >> traffic and downloads, so that's why they want home users to wait.
> >> It's just a bandwidth issue, not an issue with the network version
> >> and home users.
> >>
> >> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>> So the fact that microsoft explicitly says "IF YOU ARE A HOME USER,
> >>> DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS VERSION" means nothing to you? I
> >>> see...obviously you know more than microsoft.
> >>>
> >>> From MS website:
> >>>
> >>> This installation package is intended for IT professionals and
> >>> developers downloading and installing on multiple computers on a
> >>> network. If you're updating just one computer, please visit
> >>> http://www.microsoft.com/protect
> >>>
> >>>
> >
(http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=049C9DBE-3B8E-4F30
> >>> -8245-9E368D3CDB5A&displaylang=en)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "Ken Blake" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>> In ,
> >>>> jeff4379 > typed:
> >>>>
> >>>>> If you are not an IT professional testing SP2, don't download
> >>>>> it and
> >>>>> install it. Wait until you are offered it through automatic
> >>>>> updates
> >>>>> or Windows updates.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> No, that's not a reason to wait.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> The current version: Windows XP Service Pack 2
> >>>>> Network Installation Package for IT Professionals and
> >>>>> Developers is
> >>>>> not meant for home use.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> It's meant for any kind of use, home or otherwise. It's an image
> >>>> of the complete installation CD. For that reason, it's
> >>>> big--266MB. If you get it from Windows Update, it will be
> >>>> smaller--80-100MB or so--because it will be customized for *your*
> >>>> computer.
> >>>>
> >>>> Other than its being a larger download, there is no disadvantage
> >>>> to the Network Installation download, for home users or any other
> >>>> kind of users. And the Network Installation package has the
> >>>> advantage for many people (even home users) that a single
> >>>> download will let them use it on several computers.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
> >>>> Please reply to the newsgroup
>
>

Monty

August 18th 04, 09:36 PM

I suggest that you read jupiter jones's reply. Because you are talking crap.

"jeff4379" > wrote in message
...
> If you are not an IT professional testing SP2, don't download it and
> install
> it. Wait until you are offered it through automatic updates or Windows
> updates. The current version: Windows XP Service Pack 2 Network
> Installation Package for IT Professionals and Developers is not meant for
> home use.
>
>
>

luminos

August 18th 04, 10:07 PM

"jeff4379" > wrote in message
...
> Whether or not the download works or not is not the issue either. Unless
> I
> see something on the MS site that says it is ok for a common user to
> download this package, I will not suggest it.
>
> What you suggest about bandwidth makes sense, but that is not an official
> microsoft answer.

LOL. Official? You are really tied to Microsoft's propaganda.

Phil

August 18th 04, 10:17 PM

I can't blindly follow anything without investingting it or at least
analizing it. If ms says something, I ask, why. Since there is no real
reason why ms would say this as far as functionality of sp2 goes, I can only
logically assume it's a traffic thing.
MS reccomends things to "protect" your computer from yourself. Many ms
reccomendations are to "scare" the user into doing it the way they want you
to. Since they don't want a zillion home users overloading the network
install server they "scare" you into not doing it. It doesn't mean there
isn't another way, a better way, or another option. MS may make the os, but
many other sites and techs can tweak windows, or do things to it, or install
things on it better than ms can or is willing to. Yes, it's true most users
can and should wait until windows update has it, but they don't have to if
they don't want to wait. If they have dialup they essentially have no choice
but to wait cause the full download is just too big for dialup.
And yes it true this is not an official ms answer, but its the most logical
answer. Ever hear of achems razor? All things being equal the simplist
answer must be correct. This is the only answer that seems to make sense.
Yes, I can say without any doubt that the IT and developer release is 100%
the same as the sp2 windows update will install. The download is what is
different, not the install of sp2.

"jeff4379" > wrote in message

> Whether or not the download works or not is not the issue either.
> Unless I see something on the MS site that says it is ok for a common
> user to download this package, I will not suggest it.
>
> What you suggest about bandwidth makes sense, but that is not an
> official microsoft answer.
>
> Can you difinitively say that there is no difference between the
> current IT and Developer release and the AU/WU release?
> "Phil" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Like I just said, they only say that because they want home users to
>> use windows update or automatic updates. They don't want 10 million
>> home users downloading the 250+mb version from the network install
>> site. Bandwidth is an issue as it costs ms money to offer these
>> updates via the net. Everyone pays for bandwidth, even ms.
>> There is absolutely NO difference at all between the two versions
>> except one is the full version and one is the express version. MS
>> would rather have you download the smaller express version because
>> most won't need everything the full version updates as they may have
>> some sp2 updates installed already. Yes, ms says for home users not
>> to download that version, I don't dispute that. I'm just telling you
>> why they say that. Home users with broadband connections can do the
>> network version with no probs. I've already installed the network
>> version on 10+ home versions without one problem at all.
>>
>> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
>>
>>> I'm sure there are many more than just one server uploading that
>>> file, and that bandwidth is not an issue on Microsoft's side...But
>>> the fact is Microsoft says explicitly not to download this IT
>>> PROFESSIONAL AND DEVELOPERS version if you are updating you home pc.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Phil" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> That's just because they don't want that server to get slammed by
>>>> millions of users trying to download it. They want it available for
>>>> business users. The windows update server can handle alot more
>>>> traffic and downloads, so that's why they want home users to wait.
>>>> It's just a bandwidth issue, not an issue with the network version
>>>> and home users.
>>>>
>>>> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>> So the fact that microsoft explicitly says "IF YOU ARE A HOME
>>>>> USER, DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS VERSION" means nothing to you? I
>>>>> see...obviously you know more than microsoft.
>>>>>
>>>>> From MS website:
>>>>>
>>>>> This installation package is intended for IT professionals and
>>>>> developers downloading and installing on multiple computers on a
>>>>> network. If you're updating just one computer, please visit
>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/protect
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
> (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=049C9DBE-3B8E-4F30
>>>>> -8245-9E368D3CDB5A&displaylang=en)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Ken Blake" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> In ,
>>>>>> jeff4379 > typed:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you are not an IT professional testing SP2, don't download
>>>>>>> it and
>>>>>>> install it. Wait until you are offered it through automatic
>>>>>>> updates
>>>>>>> or Windows updates.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, that's not a reason to wait.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The current version: Windows XP Service Pack 2
>>>>>>> Network Installation Package for IT Professionals and
>>>>>>> Developers is
>>>>>>> not meant for home use.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's meant for any kind of use, home or otherwise. It's an image
>>>>>> of the complete installation CD. For that reason, it's
>>>>>> big--266MB. If you get it from Windows Update, it will be
>>>>>> smaller--80-100MB or so--because it will be customized for *your*
>>>>>> computer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Other than its being a larger download, there is no disadvantage
>>>>>> to the Network Installation download, for home users or any other
>>>>>> kind of users. And the Network Installation package has the
>>>>>> advantage for many people (even home users) that a single
>>>>>> download will let them use it on several computers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
>>>>>> Please reply to the newsgroup

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

August 18th 04, 10:43 PM

Yes, there is no difference.
AFAIK, there is nothing official on Microsoft site that says so.
If you want confirmation of what many already know contact Microsoft
Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com/

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/

"jeff4379" > wrote in message
...
> Whether or not the download works or not is not the issue either.
> Unless I
> see something on the MS site that says it is ok for a common user to
> download this package, I will not suggest it.
>
> What you suggest about bandwidth makes sense, but that is not an
> official
> microsoft answer.
>
> Can you difinitively say that there is no difference between the
> current IT
> and Developer release and the AU/WU release?
> "Phil" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Like I just said, they only say that because they want home users
>> to use
>> windows update or automatic updates. They don't want 10 million
>> home users
>> downloading the 250+mb version from the network install site.
>> Bandwidth is
>> an issue as it costs ms money to offer these updates via the net.
>> Everyone
>> pays for bandwidth, even ms.
>> There is absolutely NO difference at all between the two versions
>> except
> one
>> is the full version and one is the express version. MS would rather
>> have
> you
>> download the smaller express version because most won't need
>> everything
> the
>> full version updates as they may have some sp2 updates installed
>> already.
>> Yes, ms says for home users not to download that version, I don't
>> dispute
>> that. I'm just telling you why they say that. Home users with
>> broadband
>> connections can do the network version with no probs. I've already
> installed
>> the network version on 10+ home versions without one problem at
>> all.
>>
>> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
>>
>> > I'm sure there are many more than just one server uploading that
>> > file, and that bandwidth is not an issue on Microsoft's
>> > side...But
>> > the fact is Microsoft says explicitly not to download this IT
>> > PROFESSIONAL AND DEVELOPERS version if you are updating you home
>> > pc.
>> >
>> >
>> > "Phil" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> That's just because they don't want that server to get slammed
>> >> by
>> >> millions of users trying to download it. They want it available
>> >> for
>> >> business users. The windows update server can handle alot more
>> >> traffic and downloads, so that's why they want home users to
>> >> wait.
>> >> It's just a bandwidth issue, not an issue with the network
>> >> version
>> >> and home users.
>> >>
>> >> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
>> >>
>> >>> So the fact that microsoft explicitly says "IF YOU ARE A HOME
>> >>> USER,
>> >>> DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS VERSION" means nothing to you? I
>> >>> see...obviously you know more than microsoft.
>> >>>
>> >>> From MS website:
>> >>>
>> >>> This installation package is intended for IT professionals and
>> >>> developers downloading and installing on multiple computers on
>> >>> a
>> >>> network. If you're updating just one computer, please visit
>> >>> http://www.microsoft.com/protect
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
> (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=049C9DBE-3B8E-4F30
>> >>> -8245-9E368D3CDB5A&displaylang=en)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> "Ken Blake" > wrote in message
>> >>> ...
>> >>>> In ,
>> >>>> jeff4379 > typed:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> If you are not an IT professional testing SP2, don't download
>> >>>>> it and
>> >>>>> install it. Wait until you are offered it through automatic
>> >>>>> updates
>> >>>>> or Windows updates.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> No, that's not a reason to wait.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> The current version: Windows XP Service Pack 2
>> >>>>> Network Installation Package for IT Professionals and
>> >>>>> Developers is
>> >>>>> not meant for home use.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It's meant for any kind of use, home or otherwise. It's an
>> >>>> image
>> >>>> of the complete installation CD. For that reason, it's
>> >>>> big--266MB. If you get it from Windows Update, it will be
>> >>>> smaller--80-100MB or so--because it will be customized for
>> >>>> *your*
>> >>>> computer.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Other than its being a larger download, there is no
>> >>>> disadvantage
>> >>>> to the Network Installation download, for home users or any
>> >>>> other
>> >>>> kind of users. And the Network Installation package has the
>> >>>> advantage for many people (even home users) that a single
>> >>>> download will let them use it on several computers.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
>> >>>> Please reply to the newsgroup
>>
>>
>
>

Herb Fritatta

August 18th 04, 11:49 PM

jeff4379 wrote:

> Whether or not the download works or not is not the issue either. Unless I
> see something on the MS site that says it is ok for a common user to
> download this package, I will not suggest it.
>
> What you suggest about bandwidth makes sense, but that is not an official
> microsoft answer.
>
> Can you difinitively say that there is no difference between the current IT
> and Developer release and the AU/WU release?
> "Phil" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>

I can, you top-posting loser. And this has already been explained to
you. Can you, as an IT professional, spell ""definitively"?

Steve Shattuck

August 18th 04, 11:55 PM

"jeff4379" > wrote in message
...

> So the fact that microsoft explicitly says "IF YOU ARE A HOME USER, DO NOT
> DOWNLOAD THIS VERSION" means nothing to you? I see...obviously you know
> more than microsoft.

Perhaps English is your second language. Ken is exactly right, Microsoft is
simply trying to save the average home use, most with dialup, the extra time
required to download the complete file. In fact there are several places
where it say "users with only one system." Of course as an obvious
Microsoft thrasher, this REAL content isn't what you want to hear.

PLONK! That's exactly what the Block Sender function in Outlook Express is
for.

--
..__
(__
__ )teve www.steve.shattuck.net

bullwinkel J. Moose

August 19th 04, 02:59 AM

I'm curious, Who owns your computer?

--
"jeff4379" > wrote in message
...
> Whether or not the download works or not is not the issue either. Unless
I
> see something on the MS site that says it is ok for a common user to
> download this package, I will not suggest it.
>
> What you suggest about bandwidth makes sense, but that is not an official
> microsoft answer.
>
> Can you difinitively say that there is no difference between the current
IT
> and Developer release and the AU/WU release?
> "Phil" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Like I just said, they only say that because they want home users to use
> > windows update or automatic updates. They don't want 10 million home
users
> > downloading the 250+mb version from the network install site. Bandwidth
is
> > an issue as it costs ms money to offer these updates via the net.
Everyone
> > pays for bandwidth, even ms.
> > There is absolutely NO difference at all between the two versions except
> one
> > is the full version and one is the express version. MS would rather have
> you
> > download the smaller express version because most won't need everything
> the
> > full version updates as they may have some sp2 updates installed
already.
> > Yes, ms says for home users not to download that version, I don't
dispute
> > that. I'm just telling you why they say that. Home users with broadband
> > connections can do the network version with no probs. I've already
> installed
> > the network version on 10+ home versions without one problem at all.
> >
> > "jeff4379" > wrote in message
> >
> > > I'm sure there are many more than just one server uploading that
> > > file, and that bandwidth is not an issue on Microsoft's side...But
> > > the fact is Microsoft says explicitly not to download this IT
> > > PROFESSIONAL AND DEVELOPERS version if you are updating you home pc.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Phil" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > >> That's just because they don't want that server to get slammed by
> > >> millions of users trying to download it. They want it available for
> > >> business users. The windows update server can handle alot more
> > >> traffic and downloads, so that's why they want home users to wait.
> > >> It's just a bandwidth issue, not an issue with the network version
> > >> and home users.
> > >>
> > >> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
> > >>
> > >>> So the fact that microsoft explicitly says "IF YOU ARE A HOME USER,
> > >>> DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS VERSION" means nothing to you? I
> > >>> see...obviously you know more than microsoft.
> > >>>
> > >>> From MS website:
> > >>>
> > >>> This installation package is intended for IT professionals and
> > >>> developers downloading and installing on multiple computers on a
> > >>> network. If you're updating just one computer, please visit
> > >>> http://www.microsoft.com/protect
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >
>
(http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=049C9DBE-3B8E-4F30
> > >>> -8245-9E368D3CDB5A&displaylang=en)
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> "Ken Blake" > wrote in message
> > >>> ...
> > >>>> In ,
> > >>>> jeff4379 > typed:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> If you are not an IT professional testing SP2, don't download
> > >>>>> it and
> > >>>>> install it. Wait until you are offered it through automatic
> > >>>>> updates
> > >>>>> or Windows updates.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> No, that's not a reason to wait.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> The current version: Windows XP Service Pack 2
> > >>>>> Network Installation Package for IT Professionals and
> > >>>>> Developers is
> > >>>>> not meant for home use.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> It's meant for any kind of use, home or otherwise. It's an image
> > >>>> of the complete installation CD. For that reason, it's
> > >>>> big--266MB. If you get it from Windows Update, it will be
> > >>>> smaller--80-100MB or so--because it will be customized for *your*
> > >>>> computer.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Other than its being a larger download, there is no disadvantage
> > >>>> to the Network Installation download, for home users or any other
> > >>>> kind of users. And the Network Installation package has the
> > >>>> advantage for many people (even home users) that a single
> > >>>> download will let them use it on several computers.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
> > >>>> Please reply to the newsgroup
> >
> >
>
>

luminos

August 19th 04, 08:10 AM

What? This is almost gibberish.

"Phil" > wrote in message
...
>I can't blindly follow anything without investingting it or at least
>analizing it. If ms says something, I ask, why. Since there is no real
>reason why ms would say this as far as functionality of sp2 goes, I can
>only logically assume it's a traffic thing.
> MS reccomends things to "protect" your computer from yourself. Many ms
> reccomendations are to "scare" the user into doing it the way they want
> you to. Since they don't want a zillion home users overloading the network
> install server they "scare" you into not doing it. It doesn't mean there
> isn't another way, a better way, or another option. MS may make the os,
> but many other sites and techs can tweak windows, or do things to it, or
> install things on it better than ms can or is willing to. Yes, it's true
> most users can and should wait until windows update has it, but they don't
> have to if they don't want to wait. If they have dialup they essentially
> have no choice but to wait cause the full download is just too big for
> dialup.
> And yes it true this is not an official ms answer, but its the most
> logical answer. Ever hear of achems razor? All things being equal the
> simplist answer must be correct. This is the only answer that seems to
> make sense.
> Yes, I can say without any doubt that the IT and developer release is 100%
> the same as the sp2 windows update will install. The download is what is
> different, not the install of sp2.
>
> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
>
>> Whether or not the download works or not is not the issue either.
>> Unless I see something on the MS site that says it is ok for a common
>> user to download this package, I will not suggest it.
>>
>> What you suggest about bandwidth makes sense, but that is not an
>> official microsoft answer.
>>
>> Can you difinitively say that there is no difference between the
>> current IT and Developer release and the AU/WU release?
>> "Phil" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Like I just said, they only say that because they want home users to
>>> use windows update or automatic updates. They don't want 10 million
>>> home users downloading the 250+mb version from the network install
>>> site. Bandwidth is an issue as it costs ms money to offer these
>>> updates via the net. Everyone pays for bandwidth, even ms.
>>> There is absolutely NO difference at all between the two versions
>>> except one is the full version and one is the express version. MS
>>> would rather have you download the smaller express version because
>>> most won't need everything the full version updates as they may have
>>> some sp2 updates installed already. Yes, ms says for home users not
>>> to download that version, I don't dispute that. I'm just telling you
>>> why they say that. Home users with broadband connections can do the
>>> network version with no probs. I've already installed the network
>>> version on 10+ home versions without one problem at all.
>>>
>>> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> I'm sure there are many more than just one server uploading that
>>>> file, and that bandwidth is not an issue on Microsoft's side...But
>>>> the fact is Microsoft says explicitly not to download this IT
>>>> PROFESSIONAL AND DEVELOPERS version if you are updating you home pc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Phil" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> That's just because they don't want that server to get slammed by
>>>>> millions of users trying to download it. They want it available for
>>>>> business users. The windows update server can handle alot more
>>>>> traffic and downloads, so that's why they want home users to wait.
>>>>> It's just a bandwidth issue, not an issue with the network version
>>>>> and home users.
>>>>>
>>>>> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>> So the fact that microsoft explicitly says "IF YOU ARE A HOME
>>>>>> USER, DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS VERSION" means nothing to you? I
>>>>>> see...obviously you know more than microsoft.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From MS website:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This installation package is intended for IT professionals and
>>>>>> developers downloading and installing on multiple computers on a
>>>>>> network. If you're updating just one computer, please visit
>>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/protect
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>> (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=049C9DBE-3B8E-4F30
>>>>>> -8245-9E368D3CDB5A&displaylang=en)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Ken Blake" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> In ,
>>>>>>> jeff4379 > typed:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you are not an IT professional testing SP2, don't download
>>>>>>>> it and
>>>>>>>> install it. Wait until you are offered it through automatic
>>>>>>>> updates
>>>>>>>> or Windows updates.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, that's not a reason to wait.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The current version: Windows XP Service Pack 2
>>>>>>>> Network Installation Package for IT Professionals and
>>>>>>>> Developers is
>>>>>>>> not meant for home use.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's meant for any kind of use, home or otherwise. It's an image
>>>>>>> of the complete installation CD. For that reason, it's
>>>>>>> big--266MB. If you get it from Windows Update, it will be
>>>>>>> smaller--80-100MB or so--because it will be customized for *your*
>>>>>>> computer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Other than its being a larger download, there is no disadvantage
>>>>>>> to the Network Installation download, for home users or any other
>>>>>>> kind of users. And the Network Installation package has the
>>>>>>> advantage for many people (even home users) that a single
>>>>>>> download will let them use it on several computers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
>>>>>>> Please reply to the newsgroup
>
>

Gordon

August 19th 04, 08:54 AM

"jeff4379" > wrote in message
...
> Rubish? Please furnish some proof to that claim.
>
>
> "Gordon" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > If you are not an IT professional testing SP2, don't download it and
>> > install
>> > it. Wait until you are offered it through automatic updates or Windows
>> > updates. The current version: Windows XP Service Pack 2 Network
>> > Installation Package for IT Professionals and Developers is not meant
> for
>> > home use.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> What a load of rubbish.
>>
>>
>
>

The only reason that MS say "do not download the network install if all you
are doing is to upgrade one machine" is to conserve bandwidth. THAT IS ALL.
the network install works perfectly well on ANY machine, whether at home as
a stand-alone, on a home network, or in a commercial environment. There is
NO reason that it is "not meant for home use".

Gordon

August 19th 04, 08:59 AM

"jeff4379" > wrote in message
...
>I wouldn't give this download to a friend or family member. Personally, as
> an IT Professional, I am waiting serveral months to install this update
> (after extensively testing it on a non-production machine)
>
> Jeff
>
>
> "D M" > wrote in message
> ...
>> It is if you have a number of machines on a network, then there are the
>> friends and neighbours who rely on you to consider as well.
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>> Version: 6.0.737 / Virus Database: 491 - Release Date: 11/08/2004
>>
>>
>
>

So the "several months of extensive testing" that Microsoft did, (with real
machines and real people in the real world) meant nothing to you?

I have met quite a lot of people with attitudes like you in the "IT"
industry - and I'm a Systems accountant.

PLONK!

Feng Mao

August 19th 04, 10:49 AM

Hi Jeff,

Technically, the Windows XP Service Pack 2 Network Installation Package for
IT Professionals and Developers can be installed onto the computers for
home use. However, the Network Installation Package will be easier for IT
Managers to deploy it in their network.

Have a nice day!

Thanks & Regards,

Feng Mao [MSFT], MCSE
Microsoft Online Partner Support

Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security

================================================== ===
When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group" via your newsreader so
that others may learn and benefit from your issue.
================================================== ===
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

--------------------
| From: "jeff4379" >
| Subject: SP2 for non-IT people
| Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 13:12:10 -0500
| Lines: 8
| X-Priority: 3
| X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
| X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437
| X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441
| Message-ID: >
| Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
| NNTP-Posting-Host: 169.207.57.36
| Path: cpmsftngxa06.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP08.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTN GP12.phx.gbl
| Xref: cpmsftngxa06.phx.gbl microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:1050478
| X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
|
| If you are not an IT professional testing SP2, don't download it and
install
| it. Wait until you are offered it through automatic updates or Windows
| updates. The current version: Windows XP Service Pack 2 Network
| Installation Package for IT Professionals and Developers is not meant for
| home use.
|
|
|
|

Granny

August 19th 04, 01:40 PM

Same here Jeff, We have 22 XP systems - some of them run Easy CD Creator v6
that some users are reporting have problems. We have all critical updates,
firewall, anti-virus - SpySpeeper running etc. I am certainly not risking
our network for quite awhile.
I will install on one PC and let it run at least a month before doing all of
them.

jeanette

"jeff4379" > wrote in message
...
>I wouldn't give this download to a friend or family member. Personally, as
> an IT Professional, I am waiting serveral months to install this update
> (after extensively testing it on a non-production machine)
>
> Jeff
>
>
> "D M" > wrote in message
> ...
>> It is if you have a number of machines on a network, then there are the
>> friends and neighbours who rely on you to consider as well.
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>> Version: 6.0.737 / Virus Database: 491 - Release Date: 11/08/2004
>>
>>
>
>

jeff4379

August 19th 04, 02:05 PM

Just as you claim "I can't blindly follow anything without investingting it
or at least
analizing it. " I cannot blindly follow what you claim. If you can furnish
some proof of what you claim you found during your "investigating" Then I'd
be glad to follow suit.

"Phil" > wrote in message
...
> I can't blindly follow anything without investingting it or at least
> analizing it. If ms says something, I ask, why. Since there is no real
> reason why ms would say this as far as functionality of sp2 goes, I can
only
> logically assume it's a traffic thing.
> MS reccomends things to "protect" your computer from yourself. Many ms
> reccomendations are to "scare" the user into doing it the way they want
you
> to. Since they don't want a zillion home users overloading the network
> install server they "scare" you into not doing it. It doesn't mean there
> isn't another way, a better way, or another option. MS may make the os,
but
> many other sites and techs can tweak windows, or do things to it, or
install
> things on it better than ms can or is willing to. Yes, it's true most
users
> can and should wait until windows update has it, but they don't have to if
> they don't want to wait. If they have dialup they essentially have no
choice
> but to wait cause the full download is just too big for dialup.
> And yes it true this is not an official ms answer, but its the most
logical
> answer. Ever hear of achems razor? All things being equal the simplist
> answer must be correct. This is the only answer that seems to make sense.
> Yes, I can say without any doubt that the IT and developer release is 100%
> the same as the sp2 windows update will install. The download is what is
> different, not the install of sp2.
>
> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
>
> > Whether or not the download works or not is not the issue either.
> > Unless I see something on the MS site that says it is ok for a common
> > user to download this package, I will not suggest it.
> >
> > What you suggest about bandwidth makes sense, but that is not an
> > official microsoft answer.
> >
> > Can you difinitively say that there is no difference between the
> > current IT and Developer release and the AU/WU release?
> > "Phil" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Like I just said, they only say that because they want home users to
> >> use windows update or automatic updates. They don't want 10 million
> >> home users downloading the 250+mb version from the network install
> >> site. Bandwidth is an issue as it costs ms money to offer these
> >> updates via the net. Everyone pays for bandwidth, even ms.
> >> There is absolutely NO difference at all between the two versions
> >> except one is the full version and one is the express version. MS
> >> would rather have you download the smaller express version because
> >> most won't need everything the full version updates as they may have
> >> some sp2 updates installed already. Yes, ms says for home users not
> >> to download that version, I don't dispute that. I'm just telling you
> >> why they say that. Home users with broadband connections can do the
> >> network version with no probs. I've already installed the network
> >> version on 10+ home versions without one problem at all.
> >>
> >> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>> I'm sure there are many more than just one server uploading that
> >>> file, and that bandwidth is not an issue on Microsoft's side...But
> >>> the fact is Microsoft says explicitly not to download this IT
> >>> PROFESSIONAL AND DEVELOPERS version if you are updating you home pc.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "Phil" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>> That's just because they don't want that server to get slammed by
> >>>> millions of users trying to download it. They want it available for
> >>>> business users. The windows update server can handle alot more
> >>>> traffic and downloads, so that's why they want home users to wait.
> >>>> It's just a bandwidth issue, not an issue with the network version
> >>>> and home users.
> >>>>
> >>>> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
> >>>>
> >>>>> So the fact that microsoft explicitly says "IF YOU ARE A HOME
> >>>>> USER, DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS VERSION" means nothing to you? I
> >>>>> see...obviously you know more than microsoft.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From MS website:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This installation package is intended for IT professionals and
> >>>>> developers downloading and installing on multiple computers on a
> >>>>> network. If you're updating just one computer, please visit
> >>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/protect
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >
(http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=049C9DBE-3B8E-4F30
> >>>>> -8245-9E368D3CDB5A&displaylang=en)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Ken Blake" > wrote in message
> >>>>> ...
> >>>>>> In ,
> >>>>>> jeff4379 > typed:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If you are not an IT professional testing SP2, don't download
> >>>>>>> it and
> >>>>>>> install it. Wait until you are offered it through automatic
> >>>>>>> updates
> >>>>>>> or Windows updates.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> No, that's not a reason to wait.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The current version: Windows XP Service Pack 2
> >>>>>>> Network Installation Package for IT Professionals and
> >>>>>>> Developers is
> >>>>>>> not meant for home use.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It's meant for any kind of use, home or otherwise. It's an image
> >>>>>> of the complete installation CD. For that reason, it's
> >>>>>> big--266MB. If you get it from Windows Update, it will be
> >>>>>> smaller--80-100MB or so--because it will be customized for *your*
> >>>>>> computer.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Other than its being a larger download, there is no disadvantage
> >>>>>> to the Network Installation download, for home users or any other
> >>>>>> kind of users. And the Network Installation package has the
> >>>>>> advantage for many people (even home users) that a single
> >>>>>> download will let them use it on several computers.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
> >>>>>> Please reply to the newsgroup
>
>

jeff4379

August 19th 04, 02:06 PM

Great argument, gives a lot of credibility to you.

"Herb Fritatta" > wrote in message
...
> jeff4379 wrote:
>
> > Whether or not the download works or not is not the issue either.
Unless I
> > see something on the MS site that says it is ok for a common user to
> > download this package, I will not suggest it.
> >
> > What you suggest about bandwidth makes sense, but that is not an
official
> > microsoft answer.
> >
> > Can you difinitively say that there is no difference between the current
IT
> > and Developer release and the AU/WU release?
> > "Phil" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >
>
> I can, you top-posting loser. And this has already been explained to
> you. Can you, as an IT professional, spell ""definitively"?

Phil

August 19th 04, 03:15 PM

Browse the newsgroups, many have said they believe the reason ms says for
home users to wait is because of the traffic and server demand.(ever been to
windows update the day an sp comes out, it's very slow if it works at all) I
never asked you to follow my advice, just putting out my opinion and
experience on the issue of home users downloading the IT version and why I
think ms says for home users to wait for windows update. Take my words,
browse the groups, check out tech sites, read what ms has to say, ask your
friends, and then decide for yourself what you think is the best course of
action. Don't just take ms recomendations and follow that without checking
out other sources(it seemed this whole thread was based on ms
reccomendations). Much of what ms says and does is driven by policy, money,
and marketing tatics. Remember this whole thread started because you were
telling home users not to install sp2 solely on what it said in the ms
website. I offered my opinion on that view.

"jeff4379" > wrote in message

> Just as you claim "I can't blindly follow anything without
> investingting it or at least
> analizing it. " I cannot blindly follow what you claim. If you can
> furnish some proof of what you claim you found during your
> "investigating" Then I'd be glad to follow suit.
>
>
> "Phil" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I can't blindly follow anything without investingting it or at least
>> analizing it. If ms says something, I ask, why. Since there is no
>> real reason why ms would say this as far as functionality of sp2
>> goes, I can only logically assume it's a traffic thing.
>> MS reccomends things to "protect" your computer from yourself. Many
>> ms reccomendations are to "scare" the user into doing it the way
>> they want you to. Since they don't want a zillion home users
>> overloading the network install server they "scare" you into not
>> doing it. It doesn't mean there isn't another way, a better way, or
>> another option. MS may make the os, but many other sites and techs
>> can tweak windows, or do things to it, or install things on it
>> better than ms can or is willing to. Yes, it's true most users can
>> and should wait until windows update has it, but they don't have to
>> if they don't want to wait. If they have dialup they essentially
>> have no choice but to wait cause the full download is just too big
>> for dialup.
>> And yes it true this is not an official ms answer, but its the most
>> logical answer. Ever hear of achems razor? All things being equal
>> the simplist answer must be correct. This is the only answer that
>> seems to make sense. Yes, I can say without any doubt that the IT
>> and developer release is 100% the same as the sp2 windows update
>> will install. The download is what is different, not the install of
>> sp2.
>>
>> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
>>
>>> Whether or not the download works or not is not the issue either.
>>> Unless I see something on the MS site that says it is ok for a
>>> common user to download this package, I will not suggest it.
>>>
>>> What you suggest about bandwidth makes sense, but that is not an
>>> official microsoft answer.
>>>
>>> Can you difinitively say that there is no difference between the
>>> current IT and Developer release and the AU/WU release?
>>> "Phil" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Like I just said, they only say that because they want home users
>>>> to use windows update or automatic updates. They don't want 10
>>>> million home users downloading the 250+mb version from the network
>>>> install site. Bandwidth is an issue as it costs ms money to offer
>>>> these updates via the net. Everyone pays for bandwidth, even ms.
>>>> There is absolutely NO difference at all between the two versions
>>>> except one is the full version and one is the express version. MS
>>>> would rather have you download the smaller express version because
>>>> most won't need everything the full version updates as they may
>>>> have some sp2 updates installed already. Yes, ms says for home
>>>> users not to download that version, I don't dispute that. I'm just
>>>> telling you why they say that. Home users with broadband
>>>> connections can do the network version with no probs. I've already
>>>> installed the network version on 10+ home versions without one
>>>> problem at all.
>>>>
>>>> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>> I'm sure there are many more than just one server uploading that
>>>>> file, and that bandwidth is not an issue on Microsoft's side...But
>>>>> the fact is Microsoft says explicitly not to download this IT
>>>>> PROFESSIONAL AND DEVELOPERS version if you are updating you home
>>>>> pc.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Phil" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> That's just because they don't want that server to get slammed by
>>>>>> millions of users trying to download it. They want it available
>>>>>> for business users. The windows update server can handle alot
>>>>>> more traffic and downloads, so that's why they want home users
>>>>>> to wait. It's just a bandwidth issue, not an issue with the
>>>>>> network version and home users.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So the fact that microsoft explicitly says "IF YOU ARE A HOME
>>>>>>> USER, DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS VERSION" means nothing to you? I
>>>>>>> see...obviously you know more than microsoft.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From MS website:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This installation package is intended for IT professionals and
>>>>>>> developers downloading and installing on multiple computers on a
>>>>>>> network. If you're updating just one computer, please visit
>>>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/protect
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
> (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=049C9DBE-3B8E-4F30
>>>>>>> -8245-9E368D3CDB5A&displaylang=en)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Ken Blake" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> In ,
>>>>>>>> jeff4379 > typed:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you are not an IT professional testing SP2, don't download
>>>>>>>>> it and
>>>>>>>>> install it. Wait until you are offered it through automatic
>>>>>>>>> updates
>>>>>>>>> or Windows updates.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, that's not a reason to wait.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The current version: Windows XP Service Pack 2
>>>>>>>>> Network Installation Package for IT Professionals and
>>>>>>>>> Developers is
>>>>>>>>> not meant for home use.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's meant for any kind of use, home or otherwise. It's an
>>>>>>>> image of the complete installation CD. For that reason, it's
>>>>>>>> big--266MB. If you get it from Windows Update, it will be
>>>>>>>> smaller--80-100MB or so--because it will be customized for
>>>>>>>> *your* computer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Other than its being a larger download, there is no
>>>>>>>> disadvantage to the Network Installation download, for home
>>>>>>>> users or any other kind of users. And the Network Installation
>>>>>>>> package has the advantage for many people (even home users)
>>>>>>>> that a single download will let them use it on several
>>>>>>>> computers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
>>>>>>>> Please reply to the newsgroup

Steve Nielsen

August 19th 04, 04:41 PM

Gordon wrote:

> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I wouldn't give this download to a friend or family member. Personally, as
>>an IT Professional, I am waiting serveral months to install this update
>>(after extensively testing it on a non-production machine)
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>>
>>"D M" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>It is if you have a number of machines on a network, then there are the
>>>friends and neighbours who rely on you to consider as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>---
>>>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>>>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>>>Version: 6.0.737 / Virus Database: 491 - Release Date: 11/08/2004
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> So the "several months of extensive testing" that Microsoft did, (with real
> machines and real people in the real world) meant nothing to you?

It would be impossible for MS to test all possible configurations that
are in the real world.

>
> I have met quite a lot of people with attitudes like you in the "IT"
> industry - and I'm a Systems accountant.
>
> PLONK!
>

There is nothing wrong with Jeff's attitude and most IT Pro's agree to
wait before deploying ANY major changes to production equipment, period.
This applies to ANY OS and Application service packs and it is good
practice.

You must not get along very well with IT people in general.

Steve

Phil

August 19th 04, 05:02 PM

"Steve Nielsen" > wrote in message

> Gordon wrote:
>
>> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> I wouldn't give this download to a friend or family member. Personally,
>>> as an IT Professional, I am waiting serveral months to
>>> install this update (after extensively testing it on a
>>> non-production machine) Jeff
>>>
>>>
>>> "D M" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> It is if you have a number of machines on a network, then there
>>>> are the friends and neighbours who rely on you to consider as well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>>>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>>>> Version: 6.0.737 / Virus Database: 491 - Release Date: 11/08/2004
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> So the "several months of extensive testing" that Microsoft did,
>> (with real machines and real people in the real world) meant nothing
>> to you?
>
> It would be impossible for MS to test all possible configurations that
> are in the real world.
>
>>
>> I have met quite a lot of people with attitudes like you in the "IT"
>> industry - and I'm a Systems accountant.
>>
>> PLONK!
>>
>
> There is nothing wrong with Jeff's attitude and most IT Pro's agree to
> wait before deploying ANY major changes to production equipment,
> period. This applies to ANY OS and Application service packs and it
> is good practice.
>
> You must not get along very well with IT people in general.
>
> Steve

You have to read the whole thread from the beginning. The op wasn't talking
about prodcution machines in a business environment where they have IT
people. He was telling home users not to install sp2 until it at least comes
out on windows update or even longer. Home users should install, businesses
should test, then install. IT people agree, test then install at work, and
at home backup and install.

Steve Nielsen

August 19th 04, 05:08 PM

Phil wrote:
> "Steve Nielsen" > wrote in message
>
>
>>Gordon wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"jeff4379" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>I wouldn't give this download to a friend or family member. Personally,
>>>>as an IT Professional, I am waiting serveral months to
>>>>install this update (after extensively testing it on a
>>>>non-production machine) Jeff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"D M" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>It is if you have a number of machines on a network, then there
>>>>>are the friends and neighbours who rely on you to consider as well.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>---
>>>>>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>>>>>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>>>>>Version: 6.0.737 / Virus Database: 491 - Release Date: 11/08/2004
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>So the "several months of extensive testing" that Microsoft did,
>>>(with real machines and real people in the real world) meant nothing
>>>to you?
>>
>>It would be impossible for MS to test all possible configurations that
>>are in the real world.
>>
>>
>>>I have met quite a lot of people with attitudes like you in the "IT"
>>>industry - and I'm a Systems accountant.
>>>
>>>PLONK!
>>>
>>
>>There is nothing wrong with Jeff's attitude and most IT Pro's agree to
>>wait before deploying ANY major changes to production equipment,
>>period. This applies to ANY OS and Application service packs and it
>>is good practice.
>>
>>You must not get along very well with IT people in general.
>>
>>Steve
>
>
> You have to read the whole thread from the beginning. The op wasn't talking
> about prodcution machines in a business environment where they have IT
> people. He was telling home users not to install sp2 until it at least comes
> out on windows update or even longer. Home users should install, businesses
> should test, then install. IT people agree, test then install at work, and
> at home backup and install.
>
>

I did read it and I do understand the OP intent. I still don't see a
problem with Jeff's statements and certainly nothing to PLONK him over.
Oh well, maybe I missed something.

Steve

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

August 19th 04, 06:03 PM

Jeff;
It is Windows XP Service Pack 2.
There is nothing to distinguish them once installed.
You want proof?
Find a computer with SP-2 installed with Automatic Update.
Also find a computer with SP-2 installed by the Network Installation.
They will be identical as far as SP-2 is concerned in My Computer
Properties.

There is NOTHING on the page that suggests there will be anything
different once installed.
Search for documentation about SP-2.
If there is a difference once installed, surely there will be
something somewhere easy to locate.
You can start here, there are many Microsoft links relating to SP-2:
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/xpsp2.htm

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/

"jeff4379" > wrote in message
...
> Just as you claim "I can't blindly follow anything without
> investingting it
> or at least
> analizing it. " I cannot blindly follow what you claim. If you can
> furnish
> some proof of what you claim you found during your "investigating"
> Then I'd
> be glad to follow suit.
>
>
> "Phil" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I can't blindly follow anything without investingting it or at
>> least
>> analizing it. If ms says something, I ask, why. Since there is no
>> real
>> reason why ms would say this as far as functionality of sp2 goes, I
>> can
> only
>> logically assume it's a traffic thing.
>> MS reccomends things to "protect" your computer from yourself. Many
>> ms
>> reccomendations are to "scare" the user into doing it the way they
>> want
> you
>> to. Since they don't want a zillion home users overloading the
>> network
>> install server they "scare" you into not doing it. It doesn't mean
>> there
>> isn't another way, a better way, or another option. MS may make the
>> os,
> but
>> many other sites and techs can tweak windows, or do things to it,
>> or
> install
>> things on it better than ms can or is willing to. Yes, it's true
>> most
> users
>> can and should wait until windows update has it, but they don't
>> have to if
>> they don't want to wait. If they have dialup they essentially have
>> no
> choice
>> but to wait cause the full download is just too big for dialup.
>> And yes it true this is not an official ms answer, but its the most
> logical
>> answer. Ever hear of achems razor? All things being equal the
>> simplist
>> answer must be correct. This is the only answer that seems to make
>> sense.
>> Yes, I can say without any doubt that the IT and developer release
>> is 100%
>> the same as the sp2 windows update will install. The download is
>> what is
>> different, not the install of sp2.
>>
>> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
>>
>> > Whether or not the download works or not is not the issue either.
>> > Unless I see something on the MS site that says it is ok for a
>> > common
>> > user to download this package, I will not suggest it.
>> >
>> > What you suggest about bandwidth makes sense, but that is not an
>> > official microsoft answer.
>> >
>> > Can you difinitively say that there is no difference between the
>> > current IT and Developer release and the AU/WU release?
>> > "Phil" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> Like I just said, they only say that because they want home
>> >> users to
>> >> use windows update or automatic updates. They don't want 10
>> >> million
>> >> home users downloading the 250+mb version from the network
>> >> install
>> >> site. Bandwidth is an issue as it costs ms money to offer these
>> >> updates via the net. Everyone pays for bandwidth, even ms.
>> >> There is absolutely NO difference at all between the two
>> >> versions
>> >> except one is the full version and one is the express version.
>> >> MS
>> >> would rather have you download the smaller express version
>> >> because
>> >> most won't need everything the full version updates as they may
>> >> have
>> >> some sp2 updates installed already. Yes, ms says for home users
>> >> not
>> >> to download that version, I don't dispute that. I'm just telling
>> >> you
>> >> why they say that. Home users with broadband connections can do
>> >> the
>> >> network version with no probs. I've already installed the
>> >> network
>> >> version on 10+ home versions without one problem at all.
>> >>
>> >> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
>> >>
>> >>> I'm sure there are many more than just one server uploading
>> >>> that
>> >>> file, and that bandwidth is not an issue on Microsoft's
>> >>> side...But
>> >>> the fact is Microsoft says explicitly not to download this IT
>> >>> PROFESSIONAL AND DEVELOPERS version if you are updating you
>> >>> home pc.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> "Phil" > wrote in message
>> >>> ...
>> >>>> That's just because they don't want that server to get slammed
>> >>>> by
>> >>>> millions of users trying to download it. They want it
>> >>>> available for
>> >>>> business users. The windows update server can handle alot more
>> >>>> traffic and downloads, so that's why they want home users to
>> >>>> wait.
>> >>>> It's just a bandwidth issue, not an issue with the network
>> >>>> version
>> >>>> and home users.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> So the fact that microsoft explicitly says "IF YOU ARE A HOME
>> >>>>> USER, DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS VERSION" means nothing to you? I
>> >>>>> see...obviously you know more than microsoft.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> From MS website:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> This installation package is intended for IT professionals
>> >>>>> and
>> >>>>> developers downloading and installing on multiple computers
>> >>>>> on a
>> >>>>> network. If you're updating just one computer, please visit
>> >>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/protect
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>
>> >
> (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=049C9DBE-3B8E-4F30
>> >>>>> -8245-9E368D3CDB5A&displaylang=en)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> "Ken Blake" > wrote in
>> >>>>> message
>> >>>>> ...
>> >>>>>> In ,
>> >>>>>> jeff4379 > typed:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> If you are not an IT professional testing SP2, don't
>> >>>>>>> download
>> >>>>>>> it and
>> >>>>>>> install it. Wait until you are offered it through
>> >>>>>>> automatic
>> >>>>>>> updates
>> >>>>>>> or Windows updates.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> No, that's not a reason to wait.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> The current version: Windows XP Service Pack 2
>> >>>>>>> Network Installation Package for IT Professionals and
>> >>>>>>> Developers is
>> >>>>>>> not meant for home use.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> It's meant for any kind of use, home or otherwise. It's an
>> >>>>>> image
>> >>>>>> of the complete installation CD. For that reason, it's
>> >>>>>> big--266MB. If you get it from Windows Update, it will be
>> >>>>>> smaller--80-100MB or so--because it will be customized for
>> >>>>>> *your*
>> >>>>>> computer.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Other than its being a larger download, there is no
>> >>>>>> disadvantage
>> >>>>>> to the Network Installation download, for home users or any
>> >>>>>> other
>> >>>>>> kind of users. And the Network Installation package has the
>> >>>>>> advantage for many people (even home users) that a single
>> >>>>>> download will let them use it on several computers.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
>> >>>>>> Please reply to the newsgroup
>>
>>
>
>

Phil

August 19th 04, 07:06 PM

"Steve Nielsen" > wrote in message

> Phil wrote:
>> "Steve Nielsen" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>> Gordon wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> "jeff4379" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I wouldn't give this download to a friend or family member.
>>>>> Personally, as an IT Professional, I am waiting serveral months to
>>>>> install this update (after extensively testing it on a
>>>>> non-production machine) Jeff
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "D M" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> It is if you have a number of machines on a network, then there
>>>>>> are the friends and neighbours who rely on you to consider as
>>>>>> well. ---
>>>>>> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>>>>>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>>>>>> Version: 6.0.737 / Virus Database: 491 - Release Date: 11/08/2004
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> So the "several months of extensive testing" that Microsoft did,
>>>> (with real machines and real people in the real world) meant
>>>> nothing to you?
>>>
>>> It would be impossible for MS to test all possible configurations
>>> that are in the real world.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I have met quite a lot of people with attitudes like you in the
>>>> "IT" industry - and I'm a Systems accountant.
>>>>
>>>> PLONK!
>>>>
>>>
>>> There is nothing wrong with Jeff's attitude and most IT Pro's agree
>>> to wait before deploying ANY major changes to production equipment,
>>> period. This applies to ANY OS and Application service packs and it
>>> is good practice.
>>>
>>> You must not get along very well with IT people in general.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
>>
>> You have to read the whole thread from the beginning. The op wasn't
>> talking about prodcution machines in a business environment where
>> they have IT people. He was telling home users not to install sp2
>> until it at least comes out on windows update or even longer. Home
>> users should install, businesses should test, then install. IT
>> people agree, test then install at work, and at home backup and
>> install.
>
> I did read it and I do understand the OP intent. I still don't see a
> problem with Jeff's statements and certainly nothing to PLONK him
> over. Oh well, maybe I missed something.
>
> Steve

What was wrong with his statement is that he was saying for home users not
to install the network install version of sp2 because: one, ms said so, and
two because since ms said so the network install version must be different
then the windows update version. This is what he was getting at and it's
totally wrong. Home users need not wait for windows update to have sp2. They
can install the network install version on a stand alone home computer and
be fine. Many have already done so with no probs. I do agree it's nothing to
plonk him over, he just wasn't listening to what everyone in this thread was
telling him. Maybe that upset some people who don't have time for someone
who isn't receiving in the first place, so they plonked and moved on.

Steve Nielsen

August 20th 04, 12:14 AM

Phil wrote:

> "Steve Nielsen" > wrote in message
>
>
>>Phil wrote:
>>
>>>"Steve Nielsen" > wrote in message

>>>
>>>
>>>>Gordon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"jeff4379" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I wouldn't give this download to a friend or family member.
>>>>>>Personally, as an IT Professional, I am waiting serveral months to
>>>>>>install this update (after extensively testing it on a
>>>>>>non-production machine) Jeff
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"D M" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It is if you have a number of machines on a network, then there
>>>>>>>are the friends and neighbours who rely on you to consider as
>>>>>>>well. ---
>>>>>>>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>>>>>>>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>>>>>>>Version: 6.0.737 / Virus Database: 491 - Release Date: 11/08/2004
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>So the "several months of extensive testing" that Microsoft did,
>>>>>(with real machines and real people in the real world) meant
>>>>>nothing to you?
>>>>
>>>>It would be impossible for MS to test all possible configurations
>>>>that are in the real world.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I have met quite a lot of people with attitudes like you in the
>>>>>"IT" industry - and I'm a Systems accountant.
>>>>>
>>>>>PLONK!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>There is nothing wrong with Jeff's attitude and most IT Pro's agree
>>>>to wait before deploying ANY major changes to production equipment,
>>>>period. This applies to ANY OS and Application service packs and it
>>>>is good practice.
>>>>
>>>>You must not get along very well with IT people in general.
>>>>
>>>>Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>You have to read the whole thread from the beginning. The op wasn't
>>>talking about prodcution machines in a business environment where
>>>they have IT people. He was telling home users not to install sp2
>>>until it at least comes out on windows update or even longer. Home
>>>users should install, businesses should test, then install. IT
>>>people agree, test then install at work, and at home backup and
>>>install.
>>
>>I did read it and I do understand the OP intent. I still don't see a
>>problem with Jeff's statements and certainly nothing to PLONK him
>>over. Oh well, maybe I missed something.
>>
>>Steve
>
>
> What was wrong with his statement is that he was saying for home users not
> to install the network install version of sp2 because: one, ms said so, and
> two because since ms said so the network install version must be different
> then the windows update version. This is what he was getting at and it's
> totally wrong. Home users need not wait for windows update to have sp2. They
> can install the network install version on a stand alone home computer and
> be fine. Many have already done so with no probs. I do agree it's nothing to
> plonk him over, he just wasn't listening to what everyone in this thread was
> telling him. Maybe that upset some people who don't have time for someone
> who isn't receiving in the first place, so they plonked and moved on.
>
>

Ok - I understand now.

Thanks
Steve