SP2 Kills PC & Windows XP Copyright

[MJ]

I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install the
security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA 250
GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In one
fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.

I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying to
resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping out
my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
install key from them.

Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give me
another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."

It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
in the future.

[Tom]

"MJ" > wrote in message =
...
>I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
> Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install the
> security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
> homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA 250
> GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In one
> fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
> half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
> even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
> using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
> recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
> place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
>=20
> I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying to
> resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
> reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping out
> my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
> installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
> in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
> that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
> this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
> install key from them.
>=20
> Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give me
> another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
> full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
> require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
>=20
> It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
> you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
> in the future.

Sounds like a fairly new system, and totally up to specs for anything =
XP, including SP2, but you didn't prepare for it. You should have read =
here, or at MS for the "How Tos" for installing SP2 (or any major MS =
update/service pack) before installing it.

If your hard drive crapped out, then it is a hardware problem, and =
should be relegated to the manufacturer for warranty. SP2, Windows (or =
any software for that matter) doesn't break hardware, people do, or time =
does!

[Rho_1r]

I Installed sp2 no problems at all, I dont understand why so many have these
problems, I dont have one of them.
Rho_1r(VIP) not MVP

"Tom" wrote:

>
> "MJ" > wrote in message ...
> >I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
> > Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install the
> > security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
> > homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA 250
> > GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In one
> > fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
> > half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
> > even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
> > using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
> > recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
> > place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
> >
> > I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying to
> > resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
> > reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping out
> > my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
> > installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
> > in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
> > that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
> > this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
> > install key from them.
> >
> > Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give me
> > another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
> > full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
> > require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
> >
> > It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
> > you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
> > in the future.
>
> Sounds like a fairly new system, and totally up to specs for anything XP, including SP2, but you didn't prepare for it. You should have read here, or at MS for the "How Tos" for installing SP2 (or any major MS update/service pack) before installing it.
>
> If your hard drive crapped out, then it is a hardware problem, and should be relegated to the manufacturer for warranty. SP2, Windows (or any software for that matter) doesn't break hardware, people do, or time does!
>

[Herb Fritatta]

>-----Original Message-----
>
>"MJ" > wrote in message
...
>>I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed
Windows
>> Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital
to install the
>> security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to
SP2. It's a
>> homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe
motherboard, two SATA 250
>> GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB
of RAM. In one
>> fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted
in crashing
>> half my applications and then causing boot errors so
that I couldn't
>> even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts,
inability to fix
>> using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my
needing to
>> recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all
over the
>> place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
>>
>> I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the
process of trying to
>> resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair
and then
>> reinstall over the existing installation of windows
(kept crapping out
>> my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows
XP "allocated
>> installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a
very long code,
>> in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of
XP. I'm told
>> that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look
forward to
>> this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I
need another
>> install key from them.
>>
>> Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you
should give me
>> another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows
XP required
>> full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash
and burn and
>> require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
>>
>> It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact
that the money
>> you plunked down now requires justification for further
installation
>> in the future.
>
>Sounds like a fairly new system, and totally up to specs
for anything XP, including SP2, but you didn't prepare for
it. You should have read here, or at MS for the "How Tos"
for installing SP2 (or any major MS update/service pack)
before installing it.
>
>If your hard drive crapped out, then it is a hardware
problem, and should be relegated to the manufacturer for
warranty. SP2, Windows (or any software for that matter)
doesn't break hardware, people do, or time does!
>.

You assume an awful lot. How do you know the OP didn't
properly prepare? I did, and I had very similar results.
And note that the OP doesn't say anything about
*mechanical* failure of his HD. The fact is, and I
learned this the hard way, you can have a system that's
running like a top, fully patched, fully protected,
defragged, etc., etc. and SP2 can still make a mess of it.
Just because *you* haven't had issues and *you* choose
to swallow the line of crap about the wonderful "stability"
of SP2 being spewed by MS and a few of the MVPs here
doesn't mean that everyone should. Consider yourself
fortunate, and remember that it's still early. My own
time bomb didn't go off until a week after installation.

[Wislu Plethora]

>-----Original Message-----
>I Installed sp2 no problems at all, I dont understand why
so many have these
>problems, I dont have one of them.
> Rho_1r(VIP) not MVP
>

Well, you're a top-posting idiot, which is one problem
many don't have, but you do.

[MJ]

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:31:44 -0400, "Tom" > wrote:

>
>"MJ" > wrote in message ...
>>I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
>> Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install the
>> security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
>> homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA 250
>> GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In one
>> fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
>> half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
>> even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
>> using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
>> recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
>> place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
>>
>> I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying to
>> resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
>> reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping out
>> my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
>> installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
>> in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
>> that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
>> this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
>> install key from them.
>>
>> Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give me
>> another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
>> full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
>> require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
>>
>> It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
>> you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
>> in the future.
>
>Sounds like a fairly new system, and totally up to specs for anything XP, including SP2, but you didn't prepare for it. You should have read here, or at MS for the "How Tos" for installing SP2 (or any major MS update/service pack) before installing it.
>
>If your hard drive crapped out, then it is a hardware problem, and should be relegated to the manufacturer for warranty. SP2, Windows (or any software for that matter) doesn't break hardware, people do, or time does!

The hard drive works fine, as does every other component. I found out
the problem... afterwards. Apparently there is still an ongoing report
about incompatibilities with software that is not yet complete,
including video drivers, etc. I have no idea what caused the problem
but suffice it to say there is NO WAY that SP2 is being installed on
my machine for a very, very, very long time.

There was nothing any "How To" from MS could have helped me on this
one since after the reboot is when these problems sent me into a
spiraling trail of autoreboots, each one earlier than the prior until
I had no choice.

[Unknown]

And you're an obnoxious idiot for making responses like that.
"Wislu Plethora" > wrote in message
...
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>I Installed sp2 no problems at all, I dont understand why
> so many have these
>>problems, I dont have one of them.
>> Rho_1r(VIP) not MVP
>>
>
> Well, you're a top-posting idiot, which is one problem
> many don't have, but you do.

[MpM]

This is the 2nd time I see this comment from you.... so please understand,
not all machines are created equally. (Dell 3.06 Ghz, 2 ea. LCD, 1Gig Ram, WD
80gig)

My example is that I can document some specific problems with SP2.
Examples:
The latest NVidia driver. Some advanced window handling features will not
initialize without an error on SP2. They worked perfectly with SP1. (Quadro
NVS).

The security warnings crop up even though the JavaScript is running locally,
on a web app that is communicating to a database on the same machine, (no
network access, not even intranet - AND, scripts, even unsigned, are enabled).

Windows Explorer, (not IE! ... and not just the File Mgr. window... I mean
Explorer that runs the desktop), locks up. I can kill the process, start a
new session in a cmd window and go right back to work, but....)

Video now causes BSoD (Blue Screen of Death). This is true in several
different apps, (Pinnacle, QuickTime, and Irfanview - Is it the graphics
driver? [again... worked fine on SP1]).

I went through the "get ready for SP2". I ran one week on SP1 with all
updated drivers to ensure no problems. I had zero errors on install.

This machine is (used to be) on 24X7. I schedule a cleanup and then reboot
every Sunday night. I am now researching drivers, doing a cleanup every day,
and consider myself lucky if I can get through a days work without having to
reboot at least once.

I work in I.S. I have advised our service group not to install SP2 until
more research is done on driver compatibility, especially regards graphics
and the functionality of our home-grown Web Apps.
STATEMENT: SP2 is not as robust as SP1. Depending on the driver
combinations, installed software base, etc., you may or may not experience
these problems, but SP2 is not as robust as SP1.

"Rho_1r" wrote:

> I Installed sp2 no problems at all, I dont understand why so many have these
> problems, I dont have one of them.
> Rho_1r(VIP) not MVP
>
> "Tom" wrote:
>
> >
> > "MJ" > wrote in message ...
> > >I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
> > > Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install the
> > > security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
> > > homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA 250
> > > GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In one
> > > fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
> > > half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
> > > even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
> > > using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
> > > recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
> > > place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
> > >
> > > I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying to
> > > resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
> > > reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping out
> > > my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
> > > installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
> > > in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
> > > that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
> > > this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
> > > install key from them.
> > >
> > > Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give me
> > > another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
> > > full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
> > > require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
> > >
> > > It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
> > > you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
> > > in the future.
> >
> > Sounds like a fairly new system, and totally up to specs for anything XP, including SP2, but you didn't prepare for it. You should have read here, or at MS for the "How Tos" for installing SP2 (or any major MS update/service pack) before installing it.
> >
> > If your hard drive crapped out, then it is a hardware problem, and should be relegated to the manufacturer for warranty. SP2, Windows (or any software for that matter) doesn't break hardware, people do, or time does!
> >

[Andrew87]

Well I couldn't prepapre cos it just automatically started and I knew nothing
of the SP or precautions.

"Herb Fritatta" wrote:

>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >
> >"MJ" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed
> Windows
> >> Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital
> to install the
> >> security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to
> SP2. It's a
> >> homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe
> motherboard, two SATA 250
> >> GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB
> of RAM. In one
> >> fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted
> in crashing
> >> half my applications and then causing boot errors so
> that I couldn't
> >> even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts,
> inability to fix
> >> using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my
> needing to
> >> recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all
> over the
> >> place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
> >>
> >> I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the
> process of trying to
> >> resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair
> and then
> >> reinstall over the existing installation of windows
> (kept crapping out
> >> my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows
> XP "allocated
> >> installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a
> very long code,
> >> in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of
> XP. I'm told
> >> that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look
> forward to
> >> this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I
> need another
> >> install key from them.
> >>
> >> Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you
> should give me
> >> another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows
> XP required
> >> full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash
> and burn and
> >> require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
> >>
> >> It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact
> that the money
> >> you plunked down now requires justification for further
> installation
> >> in the future.
> >
> >Sounds like a fairly new system, and totally up to specs
> for anything XP, including SP2, but you didn't prepare for
> it. You should have read here, or at MS for the "How Tos"
> for installing SP2 (or any major MS update/service pack)
> before installing it.
> >
> >If your hard drive crapped out, then it is a hardware
> problem, and should be relegated to the manufacturer for
> warranty. SP2, Windows (or any software for that matter)
> doesn't break hardware, people do, or time does!
> >.
>
> You assume an awful lot. How do you know the OP didn't
> properly prepare? I did, and I had very similar results.
> And note that the OP doesn't say anything about
> *mechanical* failure of his HD. The fact is, and I
> learned this the hard way, you can have a system that's
> running like a top, fully patched, fully protected,
> defragged, etc., etc. and SP2 can still make a mess of it.
> Just because *you* haven't had issues and *you* choose
> to swallow the line of crap about the wonderful "stability"
> of SP2 being spewed by MS and a few of the MVPs here
> doesn't mean that everyone should. Consider yourself
> fortunate, and remember that it's still early. My own
> time bomb didn't go off until a week after installation.
>
>

[Wislu Plethora]

>-----Original Message-----
>Well I couldn't prepapre cos it just automatically
started and I knew nothing
>of the SP or precautions.
>

I think you probably had to agree to a EULA before
installation didn't you? I don't think the auto download
of SP2 installs without that. If so, then you agreed to
something before knowing what you were agreeing to, so
you have no room to complain.

[Tom]

"Herb Fritatta" > wrote in message =
...
>=20
>>-----Original Message-----
>>
>>"MJ" > wrote in message=20
> ...
>>>I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed=20
> Windows
>>> Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital=20
> to install the
>>> security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to=20
> SP2. It's a
>>> homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe=20
> motherboard, two SATA 250
>>> GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB=20
> of RAM. In one
>>> fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted=20
> in crashing
>>> half my applications and then causing boot errors so=20
> that I couldn't
>>> even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts,=20
> inability to fix
>>> using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my=20
> needing to
>>> recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all=20
> over the
>>> place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
>>>=20
>>> I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the=20
> process of trying to
>>> resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair=20
> and then
>>> reinstall over the existing installation of windows=20
> (kept crapping out
>>> my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows=20
> XP "allocated
>>> installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a=20
> very long code,
>>> in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of=20
> XP. I'm told
>>> that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look=20
> forward to
>>> this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I=20
> need another
>>> install key from them.
>>>=20
>>> Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you=20
> should give me
>>> another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows=20
> XP required
>>> full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash=20
> and burn and
>>> require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
>>>=20
>>> It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact=20
> that the money
>>> you plunked down now requires justification for further=20
> installation
>>> in the future.
>>
>>Sounds like a fairly new system, and totally up to specs=20
> for anything XP, including SP2, but you didn't prepare for=20
> it. You should have read here, or at MS for the "How Tos"=20
> for installing SP2 (or any major MS update/service pack)=20
> before installing it.
>>
>>If your hard drive crapped out, then it is a hardware=20
> problem, and should be relegated to the manufacturer for=20
> warranty. SP2, Windows (or any software for that matter)=20
> doesn't break hardware, people do, or time does!
>>.
>=20
> You assume an awful lot. How do you know the OP didn't
> properly prepare?

OP didn't state that she did prepare!

> I did, and I had very similar results.
> And note that the OP doesn't say anything about
> *mechanical* failure of his HD.

The OP stated exactly that:
"In one fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble"

HD to rubble sounds like destruction of the HD to me; software CANNOT =
destroy hardware.

In any case, you complain about my reply due to your reading =
comprehension problems. But the OP did reply that she didn't lose the =
HD, so that was overblown on her part. Again, software CANNOT hurt =
hardware, only other softwares/drivers.=20

> The fact is, and I=20
> learned this the hard way, you can have a system that's
> running like a top, fully patched, fully protected,
> defragged, etc., etc. and SP2 can still make a mess of it.

That is a fact, but very minimal for the many, and most (like 99.99%) =
bad cases are ill prepared installs, and not reading facts and =
preparations before installing SP2. It is clearly stated on the SP2 MS =
site what to do, and TO BACK UP ALL YOUR IMPORTANT DATA.

You could simply put in a new driver from your card MF, and it could =
crash your system to that which could require a total install, it is the =
nature of things in the PC world, and they happen, and MS would still be =
the blame. Bitching about them, especially from not backing up one's =
data is not my problem, but I would help with it if I could.

> Just because *you* haven't had issues and *you* choose
> to swallow the line of crap about the wonderful "stability"
> of SP2 being spewed by MS and a few of the MVPs here
> doesn't mean that everyone should. Consider yourself
> fortunate, and remember that it's still early. My own
> time bomb didn't go off until a week after installation.
>

Oh please! The OP has almost the same system I do, and I didn't any =
problems whatsoever. Many hardware MFs have updates for SP2 for their =
drivers. But still, the OP didn't check out here, or the MS sites =
regarding what to do. This isn't some little program that you install =
and run, it is a major update, and anyone with a modicum of PC knowledge =
would have troubled themselves with READING before INSTALLING!

[Tom]

"MJ" > wrote in message =
...
> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:31:44 -0400, "Tom" > wrote:
>=20
>>
>>"MJ" > wrote in message =
...
>>>I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
>>> Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install =
the
>>> security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
>>> homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA =
250
>>> GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In =
one
>>> fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
>>> half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
>>> even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to =
fix
>>> using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
>>> recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
>>> place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
>>>=20
>>> I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying =
to
>>> resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
>>> reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping =
out
>>> my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
>>> installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
>>> in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
>>> that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
>>> this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
>>> install key from them.
>>>=20
>>> Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give =
me
>>> another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
>>> full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
>>> require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
>>>=20
>>> It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
>>> you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
>>> in the future.
>>
>>Sounds like a fairly new system, and totally up to specs for anything =
XP, including SP2, but you didn't prepare for it. You should have read =
here, or at MS for the "How Tos" for installing SP2 (or any major MS =
update/service pack) before installing it.
>>
>>If your hard drive crapped out, then it is a hardware problem, and =
should be relegated to the manufacturer for warranty. SP2, Windows (or =
any software for that matter) doesn't break hardware, people do, or time =
does!
>=20
> The hard drive works fine, as does every other component. I found out
> the problem... afterwards. Apparently there is still an ongoing report
> about incompatibilities with software that is not yet complete,
> including video drivers, etc. I have no idea what caused the problem
> but suffice it to say there is NO WAY that SP2 is being installed on
> my machine for a very, very, very long time.
>=20
> There was nothing any "How To" from MS could have helped me on this
> one since after the reboot is when these problems sent me into a
> spiraling trail of autoreboots, each one earlier than the prior until
> I had no choice.

You did have a choice, that was to prepare. Not having a choice means =
you were forced to have SP2 installed without preparing. Here are a few =
MS sites regarding preparations:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=3D842242
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=3Dfh;EN-US;windowsxpsp2

Here is a list of programs that MAY NOT function properly using SP2
(Updated 9/9)
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=3D884130&product=3Dwindows=
xpsp2

There is an alphabetical list of hardware/softweare vendors and their =
respective websites located at the bottom of this web page (as well as =
the list of programs in this page), that are list under three different =
links (one link for example is for hardware/software listed =
alphabetically A-K, and so on).

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=3D842242

[Herb Fritatta]

>-----Original Message-----
>
>"Herb Fritatta" >
wrote in message news:137b01c499aa$140af910
...
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>"MJ" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>>I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I
installed
>> Windows
>>>> Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was
vital
>> to install the
>>>> security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to
>> SP2. It's a
>>>> homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe
>> motherboard, two SATA 250
>>>> GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5
GB
>> of RAM. In one
>>>> fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it
resulted
>> in crashing
>>>> half my applications and then causing boot errors so
>> that I couldn't
>>>> even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts,
>> inability to fix
>>>> using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my
>> needing to
>>>> recover my data form lost partitions, move my data
all
>> over the
>>>> place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
>>>>
>>>> I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the
>> process of trying to
>>>> resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair
>> and then
>>>> reinstall over the existing installation of windows
>> (kept crapping out
>>>> my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows
>> XP "allocated
>>>> installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a
>> very long code,
>>>> in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of
>> XP. I'm told
>>>> that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can
look
>> forward to
>>>> this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why
I
>> need another
>>>> install key from them.
>>>>
>>>> Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then
you
>> should give me
>>>> another 20 automatically when I say the
phrase "Windows
>> XP required
>>>> full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to
crash
>> and burn and
>>>> require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
>>>>
>>>> It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact
>> that the money
>>>> you plunked down now requires justification for
further
>> installation
>>>> in the future.
>>>
>>>Sounds like a fairly new system, and totally up to
specs
>> for anything XP, including SP2, but you didn't prepare
for
>> it. You should have read here, or at MS for the "How
Tos"
>> for installing SP2 (or any major MS update/service
pack)
>> before installing it.
>>>
>>>If your hard drive crapped out, then it is a hardware
>> problem, and should be relegated to the manufacturer
for
>> warranty. SP2, Windows (or any software for that
matter)
>> doesn't break hardware, people do, or time does!
>>>.
>>
>> You assume an awful lot. How do you know the OP didn't
>> properly prepare?
>
>OP didn't state that she did prepare!
>
>> I did, and I had very similar results.
>> And note that the OP doesn't say anything about
>> *mechanical* failure of his HD.
>
>The OP stated exactly that:
>"In one fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble"
>
>HD to rubble sounds like destruction of the HD to me;
software CANNOT destroy hardware.
>
>In any case, you complain about my reply due to your
reading comprehension problems. But the OP did reply that
she didn't lose the HD, so that was overblown on her part.
Again, software CANNOT hurt hardware, only other
softwares/drivers.
>
>> The fact is, and I
>> learned this the hard way, you can have a system that's
>> running like a top, fully patched, fully protected,
>> defragged, etc., etc. and SP2 can still make a mess of
it.
>
>That is a fact, but very minimal for the many, and most
(like 99.99%) bad cases are ill prepared installs, and not
reading facts and preparations before installing SP2. It
is clearly stated on the SP2 MS site what to do, and TO
BACK UP ALL YOUR IMPORTANT DATA.
>
>You could simply put in a new driver from your card MF,
and it could crash your system to that which could require
a total install, it is the nature of things in the PC
world, and they happen, and MS would still be the blame.
Bitching about them, especially from not backing up one's
data is not my problem, but I would help with it if I
could.
>
>> Just because *you* haven't had issues and *you* choose
>> to swallow the line of crap about the
wonderful "stability"
>> of SP2 being spewed by MS and a few of the MVPs here
>> doesn't mean that everyone should. Consider yourself
>> fortunate, and remember that it's still early. My own
>> time bomb didn't go off until a week after installation.
>>
>
>Oh please! The OP has almost the same system I do, and I
didn't any problems whatsoever. Many hardware MFs have
updates for SP2 for their drivers. But still, the OP
didn't check out here, or the MS sites regarding what to
do. This isn't some little program that you install and
run, it is a major update, and anyone with a modicum of PC
knowledge would have troubled themselves with READING
before INSTALLING!
>.

This is almost too stupid for words. What are is a
hardware "MF"? I know what "mf" stands for in my
neighborhood, but I think maybe you meant "mfg."

The OP didn't state that she did prepare? So this
automatically means that she (he?)didn't? Nice logic. I
said you were assuming too much, and you were. Same goes
for the HD situation. You assumed mechanical failure when
there was none in evidence. *My* reading comprehension
problems? And once again, in a shining piece of
evidence of your own inability to think straight, you say
that you have "almost" the same system as the OP, and
everything is fine. That's what's known as a nonsequitur.
Also, keep in mind that a few days ago, I could have made
the same statement, at least insofar as no problems with
SP2 is concerned.
And look, genius, I read everything there was to read
before the update, not only did I read it, but I did so
with a reasonable level of comprehension and experience.
Provide a reliable source for your 99.9% figure, or go
put your head back up your ass.

[Tom]

"Herb Fritatta" > wrote in message =
...

<snipped already, a too long thread!>
=20
> This is almost too stupid for words. What are is a=20
> hardware "MF"? I know what "mf" stands for in my=20
> neighborhood, but I think maybe you meant "mfg."

LMAO! MF is (my) short response for manufacturer (mfg is short for =
manufacturing), as you said you thought (is that possible for you?), but =
you felt the need to make yourself sound stupid, and think it was =
something else! While you're on the "This is too stupid" thing, what =
kind of "stupid English" questions is, "What are is a hardware "MF"?"

"are is a" Bwahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!

>=20
> The OP didn't state that she did prepare? So this
> automatically means that she (he?)didn't? Nice logic. I=20
> said you were assuming too much, and you were. Same goes=20
> for the HD situation. You assumed mechanical failure when=20
> there was none in evidence. *My* reading comprehension
> problems? And once again, in a shining piece of=20
> evidence of your own inability to think straight, you say
> that you have "almost" the same system as the OP, and
> everything is fine. That's what's known as a nonsequitur.
> Also, keep in mind that a few days ago, I could have made
> the same statement, at least insofar as no problems with
> SP2 is concerned.

Really, your inability to explain away "HD to rubble" speaks volumes, =
but what about "non sequitur" (it is two separate words , stupid!), do =
you really know the meaning of that term?

> And look, genius, I read everything there was to read
> before the update, not only did I read it, but I did so
> with a reasonable level of comprehension and experience.
> Provide a reliable source for your 99.9% figure, or go
> put your head back up your ass.

Your penchant for ad-hominems is testament to your inability to do =
simple PC setups. You can search my posts for %s, I won't do it for you. =
If I am a genius, I more than exemplify the compliment, since I did =
EXACTLY the preparations that you didn't, while you blame others for =
your screw-ups!

[Herb Fritatta]

>-----Original Message-----
>
>"Herb Fritatta" >
wrote in message news:159201c499c0$a8127910
...
>
><snipped already, a too long thread!>
>
>> This is almost too stupid for words. What are is a
>> hardware "MF"? I know what "mf" stands for in my
>> neighborhood, but I think maybe you meant "mfg."
>
>LMAO! MF is (my) short response for manufacturer (mfg is
short for manufacturing), as you said you thought (is that
possible for you?), but you felt the need to make yourself
sound stupid, and think it was something else! While
you're on the "This is too stupid" thing, what kind
of "stupid English" questions is, "What are is a
hardware "MF"?"

Actually, "mfg." is an acceptable abbreviation for
"manufacturer" although it makes no sense. Try and find
me a source for "MF" as you used it.

>"are is a" Bwahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!

Typo. Mea culpa.

>> The OP didn't state that she did prepare? So this
>> automatically means that she (he?)didn't? Nice logic. I
>> said you were assuming too much, and you were. Same
goes
>> for the HD situation. You assumed mechanical failure
when
>> there was none in evidence. *My* reading comprehension
>> problems? And once again, in a shining piece of
>> evidence of your own inability to think straight, you
say
>> that you have "almost" the same system as the OP, and
>> everything is fine. That's what's known as a
nonsequitur.
>> Also, keep in mind that a few days ago, I could have
made
>> the same statement, at least insofar as no problems with
>> SP2 is concerned.
>
>Really, your inability to explain away "HD to rubble"
speaks volumes, but what about "non sequitur" (it is two
separate words , stupid!), do you really know the meaning
of that term?

Jesus. Have you ever heard of a metaphor? A figure of
speech? Did you think that the OP's HD was a *literal*
pile of rubble? I read it as "something bad happened."
Nothing more. Suppose the OP had said, "My HD was reduced
to ashes." Would you recommend keeping a fire
extinguisher handy? And I am aware of the proper form of
"non sequitur." Another typo. Mea culpa again. But you
still haven't explained how one part of your thinking
logically led to the next.


>> And look, genius, I read everything there was to read
>> before the update, not only did I read it, but I did so
>> with a reasonable level of comprehension and experience.
>> Provide a reliable source for your 99.9% figure, or go
>> put your head back up your ass.
>
>Your penchant for ad-hominems is testament to your
inability to do simple PC setups. You can search my posts
for %s, I won't do it for you. If I am a genius, I more
than exemplify the compliment, since I did EXACTLY the
preparations that you didn't, while you blame others for
your screw-ups!

You have no way of knowing what preparation I did or
didn't do. You suggested that 99.9% of "bad cases" are
due to "ill-prepared" (I added the dash for you)installs.
I asked you for evidence of same. I screwed nothing up. I
was as well-prepared as it's possible to be except that I
didn't have a drive image to fall back on. I did have a
good data backup, however. The fact that I had to do a
complete reinstall rather than just having to restore an
image is my fault.

[R. C. White]

Hi, MJ.

Did you read all the instructions and fine print (Your munged email address
suggests that you are a lawyer.) as carefully as you apparently read about
the difference between activation and registration?

> installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
> in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP.

Registration is NEVER required. Activation IS required. REactivation is
not required unless your hardware has changed significantly since the prior
activation within 120 days. WinXP allows unlimited reinstallations on "the
same" computer. For details, see:
http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation.mspx

I won't get into the rest of your tirade. Just this much is enough to make
me wonder about your competence to install, manage and run that nice
computer, which does, indeed, sound like a "homebuilt beauty". WinXP SP2
runs just fine on my new EPoX 8KDA3+/AMD Athlon 64 3200+/1GB RAM (with SCSI
and 2 IDE drives, DVD-ROM and DVD burner; SATA and RAID are built in, but I
don't use them yet; etc.). Reactivation (painlessly via Internet) was
required when I upgraded the mobo/CPU in July, but NOT when I installed SP2
in August.

And literally MILLIONS of other users around the world - including many
newbies - have installed SP2; only a few have had problems with it. Except
for the documented problem with 64-bit AMD and DEP (easily fixed with a
simple edit in boot.ini), I had no problems. SP2 was installed in less than
one hour.

All this is not to deny that you really did and still do have problems or
that they are serious. Some installers have reported serious problems.
Microsoft would like to hear specific details about those cases so that the
problems can be solved, either by pointing you to already-known solutions or
by working with you to identify and solve previously-unknown problems. Have
you been to the Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2) Support Center? It's at:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?&pr=windowsxpsp2

If you will detail your specific problems, chances are someone here can help
you figure out how to deal with them.

Why does your subject line mention the "Windows XP Copyright"?

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP

"MJ" > wrote in message
...
>I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
> Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install the
> security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
> homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA 250
> GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In one
> fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
> half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
> even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
> using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
> recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
> place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
>
> I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying to
> resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
> reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping out
> my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
> installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
> in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
> that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
> this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
> install key from them.
>
> Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give me
> another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
> full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
> require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
>
> It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
> you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
> in the future.

[Tom]

"Herb Fritatta" > wrote in message =
...
>=20
>>-----Original Message-----
>>
>>"Herb Fritatta" >=20
> wrote in message news:159201c499c0$a8127910
> ...
>>
>><snipped already, a too long thread!>
>>=20
>>> This is almost too stupid for words. What are is a=20
>>> hardware "MF"? I know what "mf" stands for in my=20
>>> neighborhood, but I think maybe you meant "mfg."
>>
>>LMAO! MF is (my) short response for manufacturer (mfg is=20
> short for manufacturing), as you said you thought (is that=20
> possible for you?), but you felt the need to make yourself=20
> sound stupid, and think it was something else! While=20
> you're on the "This is too stupid" thing, what kind=20
> of "stupid English" questions is, "What are is a=20
> hardware "MF"?"
>=20
> Actually, "mfg." is an acceptable abbreviation for=20
> "manufacturer" although it makes no sense. Try and find
> me a source for "MF" as you used it.
>=20

No, "mfg" is not an acceptable form, technically "mfr" is the right =
usage in this instance; your attempts at being a pedant, is beginning to =
show your intelligence. I stated (already), that MF is just my usage for =
this case (to be quick), you can either ignore it, or continue to =
understand it as such. But as long as you continue to use the wrong =
abbreviation as being "correct", then I'll continue to ignore your =
technical nitpicking of terms and abbreviations?=20

As far as your claim that I didn't follow through, I did according to =
the OP, and I am not going through the whole thing again, just to =
satisfy your ego. You read what she said, it was very clear, that she =
gave no detail of what she did (as for anything to prepare) before SP2, =
other than just download and install SP2 on first notice of it being =
needed.

Reading your other posts concerning these issues, it is obvious that you =
will not be satisfied with any one person's explanation, or thoughts =
unless it suits your emotional state du jour. You remind me of some =
creationist science deniers. No matter what real evidence is given to =
them, they explain it away as lies, and the evidence is not acceptable, =
until it matches their beliefs!

[MpM]

Do you really expect him to answer you after your derogatory remarks?

SP2 has issues, (your flawless installation not withstanding). Operators
have issues. For both reasons, we wind up here. Let's cut MJ a little
slack. You provided good info, but he may too scared off to make use of it.
Thanks

"R. C. White" wrote:

> Hi, MJ.
>
> Did you read all the instructions and fine print (Your munged email address
> suggests that you are a lawyer.) as carefully as you apparently read about
> the difference between activation and registration?
>
> > installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
> > in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP.
>
> Registration is NEVER required. Activation IS required. REactivation is
> not required unless your hardware has changed significantly since the prior
> activation within 120 days. WinXP allows unlimited reinstallations on "the
> same" computer. For details, see:
> http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation.mspx
>
> I won't get into the rest of your tirade. Just this much is enough to make
> me wonder about your competence to install, manage and run that nice
> computer, which does, indeed, sound like a "homebuilt beauty". WinXP SP2
> runs just fine on my new EPoX 8KDA3+/AMD Athlon 64 3200+/1GB RAM (with SCSI
> and 2 IDE drives, DVD-ROM and DVD burner; SATA and RAID are built in, but I
> don't use them yet; etc.). Reactivation (painlessly via Internet) was
> required when I upgraded the mobo/CPU in July, but NOT when I installed SP2
> in August.
>
> And literally MILLIONS of other users around the world - including many
> newbies - have installed SP2; only a few have had problems with it. Except
> for the documented problem with 64-bit AMD and DEP (easily fixed with a
> simple edit in boot.ini), I had no problems. SP2 was installed in less than
> one hour.
>
> All this is not to deny that you really did and still do have problems or
> that they are serious. Some installers have reported serious problems.
> Microsoft would like to hear specific details about those cases so that the
> problems can be solved, either by pointing you to already-known solutions or
> by working with you to identify and solve previously-unknown problems. Have
> you been to the Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2) Support Center? It's at:
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?&pr=windowsxpsp2
>
> If you will detail your specific problems, chances are someone here can help
> you figure out how to deal with them.
>
> Why does your subject line mention the "Windows XP Copyright"?
>
> RC
> --
> R. C. White, CPA
> San Marcos, TX
>
> Microsoft Windows MVP
>
> "MJ" > wrote in message
> ...
> >I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
> > Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install the
> > security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
> > homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA 250
> > GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In one
> > fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
> > half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
> > even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
> > using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
> > recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
> > place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
> >
> > I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying to
> > resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
> > reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping out
> > my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
> > installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
> > in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
> > that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
> > this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
> > install key from them.
> >
> > Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give me
> > another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
> > full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
> > require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
> >
> > It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
> > you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
> > in the future.
>
>

[SlowJet]

Why would the bleeding edge hurt any less than the trailing edge?

The software all has to be in a compatible STACK.
Have you every odrered one of each type of pancke?
Not exactly the Bell cruve breakfast, would you think?

Yes, new stuff is just as clunky as old stuff.

SJ
"MpM" > wrote in message
...
> This is the 2nd time I see this comment from you.... so please understand,
> not all machines are created equally. (Dell 3.06 Ghz, 2 ea. LCD, 1Gig Ram,
> WD
> 80gig)
>
> My example is that I can document some specific problems with SP2.
> Examples:
> The latest NVidia driver. Some advanced window handling features will not
> initialize without an error on SP2. They worked perfectly with SP1.
> (Quadro
> NVS).
>
> The security warnings crop up even though the JavaScript is running
> locally,
> on a web app that is communicating to a database on the same machine, (no
> network access, not even intranet - AND, scripts, even unsigned, are
> enabled).
>
> Windows Explorer, (not IE! ... and not just the File Mgr. window... I mean
> Explorer that runs the desktop), locks up. I can kill the process, start
> a
> new session in a cmd window and go right back to work, but....)
>
> Video now causes BSoD (Blue Screen of Death). This is true in several
> different apps, (Pinnacle, QuickTime, and Irfanview - Is it the graphics
> driver? [again... worked fine on SP1]).
>
> I went through the "get ready for SP2". I ran one week on SP1 with all
> updated drivers to ensure no problems. I had zero errors on install.
>
> This machine is (used to be) on 24X7. I schedule a cleanup and then
> reboot
> every Sunday night. I am now researching drivers, doing a cleanup every
> day,
> and consider myself lucky if I can get through a days work without having
> to
> reboot at least once.
>
> I work in I.S. I have advised our service group not to install SP2 until
> more research is done on driver compatibility, especially regards graphics
> and the functionality of our home-grown Web Apps.
> STATEMENT: SP2 is not as robust as SP1. Depending on the driver
> combinations, installed software base, etc., you may or may not experience
> these problems, but SP2 is not as robust as SP1.
>
> "Rho_1r" wrote:
>
>> I Installed sp2 no problems at all, I dont understand why so many have
>> these
>> problems, I dont have one of them.
>> Rho_1r(VIP) not MVP
>>
>> "Tom" wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > "MJ" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> > >I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
>> > > Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install
>> > > the
>> > > security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
>> > > homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA
>> > > 250
>> > > GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In
>> > > one
>> > > fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
>> > > half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
>> > > even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
>> > > using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
>> > > recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
>> > > place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
>> > >
>> > > I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying
>> > > to
>> > > resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
>> > > reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping
>> > > out
>> > > my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
>> > > installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
>> > > in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
>> > > that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
>> > > this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
>> > > install key from them.
>> > >
>> > > Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give
>> > > me
>> > > another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
>> > > full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
>> > > require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
>> > >
>> > > It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
>> > > you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
>> > > in the future.
>> >
>> > Sounds like a fairly new system, and totally up to specs for anything
>> > XP, including SP2, but you didn't prepare for it. You should have read
>> > here, or at MS for the "How Tos" for installing SP2 (or any major MS
>> > update/service pack) before installing it.
>> >
>> > If your hard drive crapped out, then it is a hardware problem, and
>> > should be relegated to the manufacturer for warranty. SP2, Windows (or
>> > any software for that matter) doesn't break hardware, people do, or
>> > time does!
>> >

[RRR_News]

For those considering using the Repair Recovery feature of XP, and have =
already installed SP2. I would recommend that you first uninstall SP2, =
then do the repair.

There was a similar problem with PC owners when they installed Win98SE =
w/IE5.01 on their PC. If they upgraded their version IE, they had a =
problem, when they tried to reinstall OS over itself. The reinstallation =
tried to put an earlier version of IE back onto the PC. Which caused the =
reinstallation not to work properly. The upgraded version had to be =
uninstalled first.

Also before, and after an SP2 installation, make sure that you check for =
hadware/software updates. I had to reinstall Flash Player7 after =
installing SP2.

Also after the SP2 installation, take a few minutes and go through the =
IE/OE Option tabs, and check out the changes there. You may have to =
reset some of the features, to the way you like these programs to work.
--=20

Add MS to your News Reader: news://msnews.microsoft.com
Rich/rerat

(RRR News) <message rule>
<<Previous Text Snipped to Save Bandwidth When Appropriate>>

[MJ]

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:19:49 -0400, "Tom" > wrote:

>
>"MJ" > wrote in message ...
>> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:31:44 -0400, "Tom" > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"MJ" > wrote in message ...
>>>>I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
>>>> Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install the
>>>> security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
>>>> homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA 250
>>>> GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In one
>>>> fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
>>>> half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
>>>> even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
>>>> using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
>>>> recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
>>>> place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
>>>>
>>>> I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying to
>>>> resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
>>>> reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping out
>>>> my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
>>>> installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
>>>> in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
>>>> that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
>>>> this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
>>>> install key from them.
>>>>
>>>> Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give me
>>>> another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
>>>> full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
>>>> require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
>>>>
>>>> It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
>>>> you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
>>>> in the future.
>>>
>>>Sounds like a fairly new system, and totally up to specs for anything XP, including SP2, but you didn't prepare for it. You should have read here, or at MS for the "How Tos" for installing SP2 (or any major MS update/service pack) before installing it.
>>>
>>>If your hard drive crapped out, then it is a hardware problem, and should be relegated to the manufacturer for warranty. SP2, Windows (or any software for that matter) doesn't break hardware, people do, or time does!
>>
>> The hard drive works fine, as does every other component. I found out
>> the problem... afterwards. Apparently there is still an ongoing report
>> about incompatibilities with software that is not yet complete,
>> including video drivers, etc. I have no idea what caused the problem
>> but suffice it to say there is NO WAY that SP2 is being installed on
>> my machine for a very, very, very long time.
>>
>> There was nothing any "How To" from MS could have helped me on this
>> one since after the reboot is when these problems sent me into a
>> spiraling trail of autoreboots, each one earlier than the prior until
>> I had no choice.
>
>You did have a choice, that was to prepare. Not having a choice means you were forced to have SP2 installed without preparing. Here are a few MS sites regarding preparations:
>
>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242
>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;EN-US;windowsxpsp2
>
>Here is a list of programs that MAY NOT function properly using SP2
>(Updated 9/9)
>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130&product=windowsxpsp2
>
>There is an alphabetical list of hardware/softweare vendors and their respective websites located at the bottom of this web page (as well as the list of programs in this page), that are list under three different links (one link for example is for hardware/software listed alphabetically A-K, and so on).
>
>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242

A) You ass ume that all the vendors and their products are listed.

B) You also expect the ability to uninstall in some fashion in the
event that the results are not as expected.

C) I didn't expect to lose all my installs of Windows XP reinstalling
it, regardless of whether you think I was or was not prepared, now
having all these wonderful documents after the fact. I didn't even
know of the installs issue and THAT is what is ticking me off even
more than having to reformat my entire system. What is this crap of my
having to call MS every time I need to install Windows? Given Windows'
inability to easily deal with the crap spewed by applications and
add-ons, unlike a Mac, I find True Image imaging a major need to do
every few months to ensure the system is smooth.

[MJ]

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:06:00 -0500, "R. C. White" >
wrote:

>Hi, MJ.
>
>Did you read all the instructions and fine print (Your munged email address
>suggests that you are a lawyer.) as carefully as you apparently read about
>the difference between activation and registration?
>
>> installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
>> in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP.
>
>Registration is NEVER required. Activation IS required. REactivation is
>not required unless your hardware has changed significantly since the prior
>activation within 120 days. WinXP allows unlimited reinstallations on "the
>same" computer. For details, see:
>http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation.mspx

Apparently you think you're a real sharp wit. Obnoxious will not get
you far. To begin, do you think I really give a hoot about whether
it's called activation and registration on a technical basis? OK, you
got me and you can brag about it Friday night when you get together
with your friends.

Now before you start calling my words I've strung together a "tirade"
(oops, too late) maybe you should have read a little more closely to
realize that NO HARDWARE WAS CHANGED yet I received the
message that I needed to get a new key to activate Windows XP.
(I hope the terminology is clear.) The bottom line is that I have to
now start making calls and explaining myself like I did at 2am because
WinXP apparently does NOT allow unlimited reinstallations on the same
computer. Perhaps you can tell me, is the experience I had a bug or a
feature of WinXP?

In addition, if all the fine print is so important, why doesn't MS
have this information on the download page in big letters? The only
thing resembling a warning I see is the following:

"Read technical details about SP2, including what's new in SP2, how to
deploy SP2, and how to manage an environment with SP2. "

>I won't get into the rest of your tirade. Just this much is enough to make
>me wonder about your competence to install, manage and run that nice

Arrogance is a very bad characteristic but I'm too busy to ponder why
you feel the need to let us know how smart you think you are. A little
humility might be good as well as adding something of value.

>And literally MILLIONS of other users around the world - including many
>newbies - have installed SP2; only a few have had problems with it. Except
>for the documented problem with 64-bit AMD and DEP (easily fixed with a
>simple edit in boot.ini), I had no problems. SP2 was installed in less than
>one hour.

It seems that you don't get out much. After reading posts on the web
boards from professional people it seems that SP2 has been wreaking
quite a bit of havoc since release. Unless you are running a bare
bones system you are likely to have some problems. Heck, even
Microsoft apps are affected by problems in SP2!!!! My mistake was not
really researching all of this in areas OTHER than Microsoft's site.

>Why does your subject line mention the "Windows XP Copyright"?

If you read carefully and comprehend rather than thinking
pedagogically, you'd appreciate the fact that if Windows XP didn't
have the copyright protection scheme attached to it, I wouldn't have
to go through the hassle that I will now have to deal with every time
I need to reinstall/restore and be subject to questioning as to why
I'm calling. Perhaps I'll find that day where I'll be challenged that
my use isn't perceived as valid... send up your contact info. Perhaps
you can explain to them that if I didn't change any of hardware I
shouldn't be having this problem.

[MJ]

I apologize. You are correct MpM but cannot recall my post. As I'm not
a newbie I got mad rather than scared.

I'm not sure what the problem was but notwithstanding my need to
perhaps do research on sites other than Microsoft's, I'm still at a
loss as to how I'm now needing to get a new very long activation key
at every future install since I never changed the hardware. It's a bit
disconcerting making the call at 2AM or so and then be confronted with
the reality of defending your need to ask for the key...


On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:39:07 -0700, MpM
> wrote:

>Do you really expect him to answer you after your derogatory remarks?
>
>SP2 has issues, (your flawless installation not withstanding). Operators
>have issues. For both reasons, we wind up here. Let's cut MJ a little
>slack. You provided good info, but he may too scared off to make use of it.
>Thanks
>
>"R. C. White" wrote:
>
>> Hi, MJ.
>>
>> Did you read all the instructions and fine print (Your munged email address
>> suggests that you are a lawyer.) as carefully as you apparently read about
>> the difference between activation and registration?
>>
>> > installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
>> > in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP.
>>
>> Registration is NEVER required. Activation IS required. REactivation is
>> not required unless your hardware has changed significantly since the prior
>> activation within 120 days. WinXP allows unlimited reinstallations on "the
>> same" computer. For details, see:
>> http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation.mspx
>>
>> I won't get into the rest of your tirade. Just this much is enough to make
>> me wonder about your competence to install, manage and run that nice
>> computer, which does, indeed, sound like a "homebuilt beauty". WinXP SP2
>> runs just fine on my new EPoX 8KDA3+/AMD Athlon 64 3200+/1GB RAM (with SCSI
>> and 2 IDE drives, DVD-ROM and DVD burner; SATA and RAID are built in, but I
>> don't use them yet; etc.). Reactivation (painlessly via Internet) was
>> required when I upgraded the mobo/CPU in July, but NOT when I installed SP2
>> in August.
>>
>> And literally MILLIONS of other users around the world - including many
>> newbies - have installed SP2; only a few have had problems with it. Except
>> for the documented problem with 64-bit AMD and DEP (easily fixed with a
>> simple edit in boot.ini), I had no problems. SP2 was installed in less than
>> one hour.
>>
>> All this is not to deny that you really did and still do have problems or
>> that they are serious. Some installers have reported serious problems.
>> Microsoft would like to hear specific details about those cases so that the
>> problems can be solved, either by pointing you to already-known solutions or
>> by working with you to identify and solve previously-unknown problems. Have
>> you been to the Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2) Support Center? It's at:
>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?&pr=windowsxpsp2
>>
>> If you will detail your specific problems, chances are someone here can help
>> you figure out how to deal with them.
>>
>> Why does your subject line mention the "Windows XP Copyright"?
>>
>> RC
>> --
>> R. C. White, CPA
>> San Marcos, TX
>>
>> Microsoft Windows MVP
>>
>> "MJ" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
>> > Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install the
>> > security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
>> > homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA 250
>> > GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In one
>> > fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
>> > half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
>> > even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
>> > using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
>> > recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
>> > place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
>> >
>> > I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying to
>> > resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
>> > reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping out
>> > my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
>> > installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
>> > in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
>> > that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
>> > this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
>> > install key from them.
>> >
>> > Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give me
>> > another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
>> > full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
>> > require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
>> >
>> > It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
>> > you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
>> > in the future.
>>
>>

[Herb Fritatta]

Tom wrote:
> "Herb Fritatta" > wrote in message ...
>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>"Herb Fritatta" >
>>
>>wrote in message news:159201c499c0$a8127910
...
>>
>>><snipped already, a too long thread!>
>>>
>>>>This is almost too stupid for words. What are is a
>>>>hardware "MF"? I know what "mf" stands for in my
>>>>neighborhood, but I think maybe you meant "mfg."
>>>
>>>LMAO! MF is (my) short response for manufacturer (mfg is
>>
>>short for manufacturing), as you said you thought (is that
>>possible for you?), but you felt the need to make yourself
>>sound stupid, and think it was something else! While
>>you're on the "This is too stupid" thing, what kind
>>of "stupid English" questions is, "What are is a
>>hardware "MF"?"
>>
>>Actually, "mfg." is an acceptable abbreviation for
>>"manufacturer" although it makes no sense. Try and find
>>me a source for "MF" as you used it.
>>
>
>
> No, "mfg" is not an acceptable form, technically "mfr" is the right usage in this instance; your attempts at being a pedant, is beginning to show your intelligence. I stated (already), that MF is just my usage for this case (to be quick), you can either ignore it, or continue to understand it as such. But as long as you continue to use the wrong abbreviation as being "correct", then I'll continue to ignore your technical nitpicking of terms and abbreviations?
>
> As far as your claim that I didn't follow through, I did according to the OP, and I am not going through the whole thing again, just to satisfy your ego. You read what she said, it was very clear, that she gave no detail of what she did (as for anything to prepare) before SP2, other than just download and install SP2 on first notice of it being needed.
>
> Reading your other posts concerning these issues, it is obvious that you will not be satisfied with any one person's explanation, or thoughts unless it suits your emotional state du jour. You remind me of some creationist science deniers. No matter what real evidence is given to them, they explain it away as lies, and the evidence is not acceptable, until it matches their beliefs!

OK, let's summarize. You misinterpreted the OP and responded based on
unwarranted presumption. You have referred to the OP as "she" for no
apparent reason. You then accused me of being ill-prepared in installing
SP2 without having a shred of evidence upon which to base the
accusation. You have posted an absurd unsupported assertion--that 99.9%
of SP2 trouble is due to "ill prepared" installs. (I understand that
this is an exaggeration for effect, or at least I hope it is.) I think
this all speaks very eloquently for itself.

[MJ]

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:48:01 -0400, "RRR_News" > wrote:

>For those considering using the Repair Recovery feature of XP, and have already installed SP2. I would recommend that you first uninstall SP2, then do the repair.

Wish I could. Unfortunately after install my PC kept crashing and I
was unable to uninstall. It soon refused to boot up entirely. I have
no idea what could have caused the problem since nothing was launched
and my drivers seemed to be compatible.

I do appreciate the help though. At this point I am not installing SP2
until I know it is safe for me to do so and all the kinks have been
worked out. Too many apps to reinstall to hope it works. My
understanding is that several apps are not compatible and time for
fixes are not known at this time.

[SlowJet]

**** Happens. :)

It's what you do with it that determines the quality of life.

SJ
"MJ" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:19:49 -0400, "Tom" > wrote:
>
>>
>>"MJ" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:31:44 -0400, "Tom" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"MJ" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
>>>>> Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install the
>>>>> security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
>>>>> homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA 250
>>>>> GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In one
>>>>> fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
>>>>> half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
>>>>> even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
>>>>> using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
>>>>> recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
>>>>> place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying to
>>>>> resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
>>>>> reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping out
>>>>> my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
>>>>> installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
>>>>> in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
>>>>> that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
>>>>> this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
>>>>> install key from them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give me
>>>>> another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
>>>>> full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
>>>>> require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
>>>>> you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
>>>>> in the future.
>>>>
>>>>Sounds like a fairly new system, and totally up to specs for anything
>>>>XP, including SP2, but you didn't prepare for it. You should have read
>>>>here, or at MS for the "How Tos" for installing SP2 (or any major MS
>>>>update/service pack) before installing it.
>>>>
>>>>If your hard drive crapped out, then it is a hardware problem, and
>>>>should be relegated to the manufacturer for warranty. SP2, Windows (or
>>>>any software for that matter) doesn't break hardware, people do, or time
>>>>does!
>>>
>>> The hard drive works fine, as does every other component. I found out
>>> the problem... afterwards. Apparently there is still an ongoing report
>>> about incompatibilities with software that is not yet complete,
>>> including video drivers, etc. I have no idea what caused the problem
>>> but suffice it to say there is NO WAY that SP2 is being installed on
>>> my machine for a very, very, very long time.
>>>
>>> There was nothing any "How To" from MS could have helped me on this
>>> one since after the reboot is when these problems sent me into a
>>> spiraling trail of autoreboots, each one earlier than the prior until
>>> I had no choice.
>>
>>You did have a choice, that was to prepare. Not having a choice means you
>>were forced to have SP2 installed without preparing. Here are a few MS
>>sites regarding preparations:
>>
>>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242
>>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;EN-US;windowsxpsp2
>>
>>Here is a list of programs that MAY NOT function properly using SP2
>>(Updated 9/9)
>>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130&product=windowsxpsp2
>>
>>There is an alphabetical list of hardware/softweare vendors and their
>>respective websites located at the bottom of this web page (as well as the
>>list of programs in this page), that are list under three different links
>>(one link for example is for hardware/software listed alphabetically A-K,
>>and so on).
>>
>>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242
>
> A) You ass ume that all the vendors and their products are listed.
>
> B) You also expect the ability to uninstall in some fashion in the
> event that the results are not as expected.
>
> C) I didn't expect to lose all my installs of Windows XP reinstalling
> it, regardless of whether you think I was or was not prepared, now
> having all these wonderful documents after the fact. I didn't even
> know of the installs issue and THAT is what is ticking me off even
> more than having to reformat my entire system. What is this crap of my
> having to call MS every time I need to install Windows? Given Windows'
> inability to easily deal with the crap spewed by applications and
> add-ons, unlike a Mac, I find True Image imaging a major need to do
> every few months to ensure the system is smooth.
>

[RRR_News]

MJ,
The only problem I see with your future plans. In time, any further =
windows updates, will require that you have SP2 installed first. I don't =
think they will completely redesign SP2, but will offer updates. MS =
offers SP2 CD for free, go to MS to order it. It should arrive within 2 =
weeks, I got mine sooner.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/updates/sp2/cdorder/en_us/de=
fault.mspx


I would recommend if at this time, you are forced to reinstall your =
version of XP on your PC, do a clean install of XP not a Repair Install. =

1. First disconnect PC from Internet connection. Disconnect any =
peripherals such as printers, scanners, etc...
2. Reload Windows XP
3. Before reloading any software, then load all the drivers (or driver =
software if required) for the hardware on the PC.
4. Enable XP firewall, unless you are connected though a router with =
built-in firewall.
5. Then install your Antivirus software. Go to their website, especially =
if you use Norton, and get any updates available for SP2.
6. Go to any hardware manufacturers, site and get any upgrades for the =
hardware. You may have to reload the drivers again after installing SP2.
7. Go to Windows Update and reinstall SP2.
8. Then install the rest of your software.
9. Rebooting PC as installation process requires.

--=20

Add MS to your News Reader: news://msnews.microsoft.com
Rich/rerat

(RRR News) <message rule>
<<Previous Text Snipped to Save Bandwidth When Appropriate>>


"MJ" > wrote in message =
...
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:48:01 -0400, "RRR_News" > wrote:

>For those considering using the Repair Recovery feature of XP, and have =
already installed SP2. I would recommend that you first uninstall SP2, =
then do the repair.

Wish I could. Unfortunately after install my PC kept crashing and I
was unable to uninstall. It soon refused to boot up entirely. I have
no idea what could have caused the problem since nothing was launched
and my drivers seemed to be compatible.

I do appreciate the help though. At this point I am not installing SP2
until I know it is safe for me to do so and all the kinks have been
worked out. Too many apps to reinstall to hope it works. My
understanding is that several apps are not compatible and time for
fixes are not known at this time.

[MpM]

I like the food analogy, (and I like pancakes). I expected, (suspected),
that the security apps would conflict with some home-grown web apps. I did
not expect to see blueberries oozing out of the graphics drivers.

It is like being back in the DOS days... when you had to unload and re-load
each driver to see which one was the Root Cause. Simple... comment out a
line in config.sys to test it. (now you know how old I am).

On my current system I have to do that over a hundred times... etc. etc.,
and then... I'd rather have pancakes.

"SlowJet" wrote:

> Why would the bleeding edge hurt any less than the trailing edge?
>
> The software all has to be in a compatible STACK.
> Have you every odrered one of each type of pancke?
> Not exactly the Bell cruve breakfast, would you think?
>
> Yes, new stuff is just as clunky as old stuff.
>
> SJ
> "MpM" > wrote in message
> ...
> > This is the 2nd time I see this comment from you.... so please understand,
> > not all machines are created equally. (Dell 3.06 Ghz, 2 ea. LCD, 1Gig Ram,
> > WD
> > 80gig)
> >
> > My example is that I can document some specific problems with SP2.
> > Examples:
> > The latest NVidia driver. Some advanced window handling features will not
> > initialize without an error on SP2. They worked perfectly with SP1.
> > (Quadro
> > NVS).
> >
> > The security warnings crop up even though the JavaScript is running
> > locally,
> > on a web app that is communicating to a database on the same machine, (no
> > network access, not even intranet - AND, scripts, even unsigned, are
> > enabled).
> >
> > Windows Explorer, (not IE! ... and not just the File Mgr. window... I mean
> > Explorer that runs the desktop), locks up. I can kill the process, start
> > a
> > new session in a cmd window and go right back to work, but....)
> >
> > Video now causes BSoD (Blue Screen of Death). This is true in several
> > different apps, (Pinnacle, QuickTime, and Irfanview - Is it the graphics
> > driver? [again... worked fine on SP1]).
> >
> > I went through the "get ready for SP2". I ran one week on SP1 with all
> > updated drivers to ensure no problems. I had zero errors on install.
> >
> > This machine is (used to be) on 24X7. I schedule a cleanup and then
> > reboot
> > every Sunday night. I am now researching drivers, doing a cleanup every
> > day,
> > and consider myself lucky if I can get through a days work without having
> > to
> > reboot at least once.
> >
> > I work in I.S. I have advised our service group not to install SP2 until
> > more research is done on driver compatibility, especially regards graphics
> > and the functionality of our home-grown Web Apps.
> > STATEMENT: SP2 is not as robust as SP1. Depending on the driver
> > combinations, installed software base, etc., you may or may not experience
> > these problems, but SP2 is not as robust as SP1.
> >
> > "Rho_1r" wrote:
> >
> >> I Installed sp2 no problems at all, I dont understand why so many have
> >> these
> >> problems, I dont have one of them.
> >> Rho_1r(VIP) not MVP
> >>
> >> "Tom" wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > "MJ" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >> > >I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
> >> > > Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install
> >> > > the
> >> > > security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
> >> > > homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA
> >> > > 250
> >> > > GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In
> >> > > one
> >> > > fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
> >> > > half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
> >> > > even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
> >> > > using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
> >> > > recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
> >> > > place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
> >> > >
> >> > > I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying
> >> > > to
> >> > > resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
> >> > > reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping
> >> > > out
> >> > > my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
> >> > > installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
> >> > > in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
> >> > > that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
> >> > > this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
> >> > > install key from them.
> >> > >
> >> > > Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give
> >> > > me
> >> > > another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
> >> > > full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
> >> > > require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
> >> > >
> >> > > It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
> >> > > you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
> >> > > in the future.
> >> >
> >> > Sounds like a fairly new system, and totally up to specs for anything
> >> > XP, including SP2, but you didn't prepare for it. You should have read
> >> > here, or at MS for the "How Tos" for installing SP2 (or any major MS
> >> > update/service pack) before installing it.
> >> >
> >> > If your hard drive crapped out, then it is a hardware problem, and
> >> > should be relegated to the manufacturer for warranty. SP2, Windows (or
> >> > any software for that matter) doesn't break hardware, people do, or
> >> > time does!
> >> >
>
>
>

[MpM]

One more comment.... I went back and read through your dilemma again, and
there is another option....
Do a completely fresh install, (this assumes that you have a full install CD
and not just the upgrade version). That means re-format and start from
scratch.

Why do I say that? I had a problem with the original install of XP, and a
similar problem when I tried to re-install. I did a format, (to get ALL of
the installation informaiton cancelled off the HD), and the installation went
fine.

I recently had to re-install XP for a second time when my HD fried. I had
none of the problems I had with the corrupt data HD.
Note: 1. I am making assumptions that there is garbage on your hard drive
that is preventing the activation.
2. If you are using an upgrade disk, you will need the CD from the prior OS,
95. 98 or ME to do a complete fresh install.
Good Luck... I hope it all works out.
"MJ" wrote:

> I apologize. You are correct MpM but cannot recall my post. As I'm not
> a newbie I got mad rather than scared.
>
> I'm not sure what the problem was but notwithstanding my need to
> perhaps do research on sites other than Microsoft's, I'm still at a
> loss as to how I'm now needing to get a new very long activation key
> at every future install since I never changed the hardware. It's a bit
> disconcerting making the call at 2AM or so and then be confronted with
> the reality of defending your need to ask for the key...
>
>
> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:39:07 -0700, MpM
> > wrote:
>
> >Do you really expect him to answer you after your derogatory remarks?
> >
> >SP2 has issues, (your flawless installation not withstanding). Operators
> >have issues. For both reasons, we wind up here. Let's cut MJ a little
> >slack. You provided good info, but he may too scared off to make use of it.
> >Thanks
> >
> >"R. C. White" wrote:
> >
> >> Hi, MJ.
> >>
> >> Did you read all the instructions and fine print (Your munged email address
> >> suggests that you are a lawyer.) as carefully as you apparently read about
> >> the difference between activation and registration?
> >>
> >> > installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
> >> > in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP.
> >>
> >> Registration is NEVER required. Activation IS required. REactivation is
> >> not required unless your hardware has changed significantly since the prior
> >> activation within 120 days. WinXP allows unlimited reinstallations on "the
> >> same" computer. For details, see:
> >> http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation.mspx
> >>
> >> I won't get into the rest of your tirade. Just this much is enough to make
> >> me wonder about your competence to install, manage and run that nice
> >> computer, which does, indeed, sound like a "homebuilt beauty". WinXP SP2
> >> runs just fine on my new EPoX 8KDA3+/AMD Athlon 64 3200+/1GB RAM (with SCSI
> >> and 2 IDE drives, DVD-ROM and DVD burner; SATA and RAID are built in, but I
> >> don't use them yet; etc.). Reactivation (painlessly via Internet) was
> >> required when I upgraded the mobo/CPU in July, but NOT when I installed SP2
> >> in August.
> >>
> >> And literally MILLIONS of other users around the world - including many
> >> newbies - have installed SP2; only a few have had problems with it. Except
> >> for the documented problem with 64-bit AMD and DEP (easily fixed with a
> >> simple edit in boot.ini), I had no problems. SP2 was installed in less than
> >> one hour.
> >>
> >> All this is not to deny that you really did and still do have problems or
> >> that they are serious. Some installers have reported serious problems.
> >> Microsoft would like to hear specific details about those cases so that the
> >> problems can be solved, either by pointing you to already-known solutions or
> >> by working with you to identify and solve previously-unknown problems. Have
> >> you been to the Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2) Support Center? It's at:
> >> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?&pr=windowsxpsp2
> >>
> >> If you will detail your specific problems, chances are someone here can help
> >> you figure out how to deal with them.
> >>
> >> Why does your subject line mention the "Windows XP Copyright"?
> >>
> >> RC
> >> --
> >> R. C. White, CPA
> >> San Marcos, TX
> >>
> >> Microsoft Windows MVP
> >>
> >> "MJ" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
> >> > Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install the
> >> > security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
> >> > homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA 250
> >> > GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In one
> >> > fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
> >> > half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
> >> > even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
> >> > using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
> >> > recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
> >> > place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
> >> >
> >> > I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying to
> >> > resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
> >> > reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping out
> >> > my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
> >> > installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
> >> > in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
> >> > that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
> >> > this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
> >> > install key from them.
> >> >
> >> > Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give me
> >> > another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
> >> > full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
> >> > require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
> >> >
> >> > It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
> >> > you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
> >> > in the future.
> >>
> >>
>
>

[Tom]

>-----Original Message-----
>Tom wrote:
>> "Herb Fritatta" >
wrote in message news:014701c499c6$ee1eb260
...
>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>
>>>>"Herb Fritatta" >
>>>
>>>wrote in message news:159201c499c0$a8127910
...
>>>
>>>><snipped already, a too long thread!>
>>>>
>>>>>This is almost too stupid for words. What are is a
>>>>>hardware "MF"? I know what "mf" stands for in my
>>>>>neighborhood, but I think maybe you meant "mfg."
>>>>
>>>>LMAO! MF is (my) short response for manufacturer (mfg
is
>>>
>>>short for manufacturing), as you said you thought (is
that
>>>possible for you?), but you felt the need to make
yourself
>>>sound stupid, and think it was something else! While
>>>you're on the "This is too stupid" thing, what kind
>>>of "stupid English" questions is, "What are is a
>>>hardware "MF"?"
>>>
>>>Actually, "mfg." is an acceptable abbreviation for
>>>"manufacturer" although it makes no sense. Try and find
>>>me a source for "MF" as you used it.
>>>
>>
>>
>> No, "mfg" is not an acceptable form, technically "mfr"
is the right usage in this instance; your attempts at
being a pedant, is beginning to show your intelligence. I
stated (already), that MF is just my usage for this case
(to be quick), you can either ignore it, or continue to
understand it as such. But as long as you continue to use
the wrong abbreviation as being "correct", then I'll
continue to ignore your technical nitpicking of terms and
abbreviations?
>>
>> As far as your claim that I didn't follow through, I
did according to the OP, and I am not going through the
whole thing again, just to satisfy your ego. You read what
she said, it was very clear, that she gave no detail of
what she did (as for anything to prepare) before SP2,
other than just download and install SP2 on first notice
of it being needed.
>>
>> Reading your other posts concerning these issues, it is
obvious that you will not be satisfied with any one
person's explanation, or thoughts unless it suits your
emotional state du jour. You remind me of some creationist
science deniers. No matter what real evidence is given to
them, they explain it away as lies, and the evidence is
not acceptable, until it matches their beliefs!
>
>OK, let's summarize. You misinterpreted the OP and
responded based on
>unwarranted presumption. You have referred to the OP
as "she" for no
>apparent reason.

You've been had, you first referred to her(him) as a she,
not I; I was simply being congruent.


You then accused me of being ill-prepared in installing
>SP2 without having a shred of evidence upon which to base
the
>accusation.

I did not accuse you of anything, read again! (learn what
accuse means while you're at it)

You have posted an absurd unsupported assertion--that
99.9%
>of SP2 trouble is due to "ill prepared" installs. (I
understand that
>this is an exaggeration for effect, or at least I hope it
is.)

Reasonable, since there have been millions of downloads to
date, and the fact that SP2 issues posted in the MS groups
might represent 10-20% of all post speak volumes.

>I think
>this all speaks very eloquently for itself.
>.

As your PC skills don't!

[fbionyourtail]

Many thanks for looking through for some further advice. Actually I
did do a fresh install. I'm not sure if I have an upgrade disk and
even so, you can do a fresh install if you have a prior Win 2000 CD by
swapping out the CD.

I did the reformat. Problem was that I had to reinstall 2 or 3 times.
First time I tried to fix the install by using the repair option.
Didn't work. Then I tried to reinstall a fresh copy onto the same hard
drive. More problems. Reformatted but didn't realize that I had to
disable the entire IDE chain or else there would be boot files dumped
on the IDE drives. Apparently I got to my fifth attempt -- same
hardware and definitely same mobo and processor and RAM, and I got the
activation message. It seems that MS might also keep track of how many
times you have installed a copy of Windows onto a HD in addition to
hardware changes. Bottom line is I speak truth and MS is now telling
me that every install will require a call for a new activation key,
unfortunately. I'm just not happy about that and I just wonder about
the day they challenge me on this...

Many, may thanks MpM.

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:21:02 -0700, MpM
> wrote:

>One more comment.... I went back and read through your dilemma again, and
>there is another option....
>Do a completely fresh install, (this assumes that you have a full install CD
>and not just the upgrade version). That means re-format and start from
>scratch.
>
>Why do I say that? I had a problem with the original install of XP, and a
>similar problem when I tried to re-install. I did a format, (to get ALL of
>the installation informaiton cancelled off the HD), and the installation went
>fine.
>
>I recently had to re-install XP for a second time when my HD fried. I had
>none of the problems I had with the corrupt data HD.
>Note: 1. I am making assumptions that there is garbage on your hard drive
>that is preventing the activation.
>2. If you are using an upgrade disk, you will need the CD from the prior OS,
>95. 98 or ME to do a complete fresh install.
>Good Luck... I hope it all works out.
>"MJ" wrote:
>
>> I apologize. You are correct MpM but cannot recall my post. As I'm not
>> a newbie I got mad rather than scared.
>>
>> I'm not sure what the problem was but notwithstanding my need to
>> perhaps do research on sites other than Microsoft's, I'm still at a
>> loss as to how I'm now needing to get a new very long activation key
>> at every future install since I never changed the hardware. It's a bit
>> disconcerting making the call at 2AM or so and then be confronted with
>> the reality of defending your need to ask for the key...
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:39:07 -0700, MpM
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Do you really expect him to answer you after your derogatory remarks?
>> >
>> >SP2 has issues, (your flawless installation not withstanding). Operators
>> >have issues. For both reasons, we wind up here. Let's cut MJ a little
>> >slack. You provided good info, but he may too scared off to make use of it.
>> >Thanks
>> >
>> >"R. C. White" wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi, MJ.
>> >>
>> >> Did you read all the instructions and fine print (Your munged email address
>> >> suggests that you are a lawyer.) as carefully as you apparently read about
>> >> the difference between activation and registration?
>> >>
>> >> > installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
>> >> > in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP.
>> >>
>> >> Registration is NEVER required. Activation IS required. REactivation is
>> >> not required unless your hardware has changed significantly since the prior
>> >> activation within 120 days. WinXP allows unlimited reinstallations on "the
>> >> same" computer. For details, see:
>> >> http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation.mspx
>> >>
>> >> I won't get into the rest of your tirade. Just this much is enough to make
>> >> me wonder about your competence to install, manage and run that nice
>> >> computer, which does, indeed, sound like a "homebuilt beauty". WinXP SP2
>> >> runs just fine on my new EPoX 8KDA3+/AMD Athlon 64 3200+/1GB RAM (with SCSI
>> >> and 2 IDE drives, DVD-ROM and DVD burner; SATA and RAID are built in, but I
>> >> don't use them yet; etc.). Reactivation (painlessly via Internet) was
>> >> required when I upgraded the mobo/CPU in July, but NOT when I installed SP2
>> >> in August.
>> >>
>> >> And literally MILLIONS of other users around the world - including many
>> >> newbies - have installed SP2; only a few have had problems with it. Except
>> >> for the documented problem with 64-bit AMD and DEP (easily fixed with a
>> >> simple edit in boot.ini), I had no problems. SP2 was installed in less than
>> >> one hour.
>> >>
>> >> All this is not to deny that you really did and still do have problems or
>> >> that they are serious. Some installers have reported serious problems.
>> >> Microsoft would like to hear specific details about those cases so that the
>> >> problems can be solved, either by pointing you to already-known solutions or
>> >> by working with you to identify and solve previously-unknown problems. Have
>> >> you been to the Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2) Support Center? It's at:
>> >> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?&pr=windowsxpsp2
>> >>
>> >> If you will detail your specific problems, chances are someone here can help
>> >> you figure out how to deal with them.
>> >>
>> >> Why does your subject line mention the "Windows XP Copyright"?
>> >>
>> >> RC
>> >> --
>> >> R. C. White, CPA
>> >> San Marcos, TX
>> >>
>> >> Microsoft Windows MVP
>> >>
>> >> "MJ" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> >I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
>> >> > Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install the
>> >> > security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
>> >> > homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA 250
>> >> > GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In one
>> >> > fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
>> >> > half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
>> >> > even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
>> >> > using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
>> >> > recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
>> >> > place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying to
>> >> > resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
>> >> > reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping out
>> >> > my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
>> >> > installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
>> >> > in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
>> >> > that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
>> >> > this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
>> >> > install key from them.
>> >> >
>> >> > Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give me
>> >> > another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
>> >> > full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
>> >> > require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
>> >> >
>> >> > It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
>> >> > you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
>> >> > in the future.
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>

[Al Smith]

> I'm not sure what the problem was but notwithstanding my need to
> perhaps do research on sites other than Microsoft's, I'm still at a
> loss as to how I'm now needing to get a new very long activation key
> at every future install since I never changed the hardware. It's a bit
> disconcerting making the call at 2AM or so and then be confronted with
> the reality of defending your need to ask for the key...

"Welcome to the exciting new world of Windows XP, where you are a
criminal until *we* say you are not..."

[Tom]

"MJ" > wrote in message =
...
> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:19:49 -0400, "Tom" > wrote:
>=20
>>
>>"MJ" > wrote in message =
...
>>> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:31:44 -0400, "Tom" > wrote:
>>>=20
>>>>
>>>>"MJ" > wrote in message =
...
>>>>>I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
>>>>> Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install =
the
>>>>> security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
>>>>> homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA =
250
>>>>> GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In =
one
>>>>> fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in =
crashing
>>>>> half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I =
couldn't
>>>>> even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to =
fix
>>>>> using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
>>>>> recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
>>>>> place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of =
trying to
>>>>> resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
>>>>> reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping =
out
>>>>> my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
>>>>> installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long =
code,
>>>>> in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
>>>>> that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
>>>>> this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need =
another
>>>>> install key from them.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should =
give me
>>>>> another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP =
required
>>>>> full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn =
and
>>>>> require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
>>>>>=20
>>>>> It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the =
money
>>>>> you plunked down now requires justification for further =
installation
>>>>> in the future.
>>>>
>>>>Sounds like a fairly new system, and totally up to specs for =
anything XP, including SP2, but you didn't prepare for it. You should =
have read here, or at MS for the "How Tos" for installing SP2 (or any =
major MS update/service pack) before installing it.
>>>>
>>>>If your hard drive crapped out, then it is a hardware problem, and =
should be relegated to the manufacturer for warranty. SP2, Windows (or =
any software for that matter) doesn't break hardware, people do, or time =
does!
>>>=20
>>> The hard drive works fine, as does every other component. I found =
out
>>> the problem... afterwards. Apparently there is still an ongoing =
report
>>> about incompatibilities with software that is not yet complete,
>>> including video drivers, etc. I have no idea what caused the problem
>>> but suffice it to say there is NO WAY that SP2 is being installed on
>>> my machine for a very, very, very long time.
>>>=20
>>> There was nothing any "How To" from MS could have helped me on this
>>> one since after the reboot is when these problems sent me into a
>>> spiraling trail of autoreboots, each one earlier than the prior =
until
>>> I had no choice.
>>
>>You did have a choice, that was to prepare. Not having a choice means =
you were forced to have SP2 installed without preparing. Here are a few =
MS sites regarding preparations:
>>
>>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=3D842242
>>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=3Dfh;EN-US;windowsxpsp2
>>
>>Here is a list of programs that MAY NOT function properly using SP2
>>(Updated 9/9)
>>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=3D884130&product=3Dwindo=
wsxpsp2
>>
>>There is an alphabetical list of hardware/softweare vendors and their =
respective websites located at the bottom of this web page (as well as =
the list of programs in this page), that are list under three different =
links (one link for example is for hardware/software listed =
alphabetically A-K, and so on).
>>
>>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=3D842242
>=20
> A) You ass ume that all the vendors and their products are listed.
>

I ass umed that you were an =E2ss from your first post, but was avoiding =
name calling in attempts to make a valid point. Well, you showed your =
poise and expertise concerning your created quandary. In any case, I =
simply gave you links with program lists, without assuming anything, =
only in the hopes that you would MAYBE see something there and get on =
with learning and fixing. The fact that you DON'T check with your own =
hardware/software makers for updates, is your problem.
=20
> B) You also expect the ability to uninstall in some fashion in the
> event that the results are not as expected.

No, I had no such expectation, those are your words, nor did I make such =
a remark regarding uninstalling anything. Poor attempt on your part from =
defensive posturing.

>=20
> C) I didn't expect to lose all my installs of Windows XP reinstalling
> it, regardless of whether you think I was or was not prepared, now
> having all these wonderful documents after the fact. I didn't even
> know of the installs issue and THAT is what is ticking me off even
> more than having to reformat my entire system. What is this crap of my
> having to call MS every time I need to install Windows? Given Windows'
> inability to easily deal with the crap spewed by applications and
> add-ons, unlike a Mac, I find True Image imaging a major need to do
> every few months to ensure the system is smooth.
>

No one expects to lose anything, but it happens, and can happen just by =
simply getting a nasty power surge. The point is, it is never the =
owner's fault, no matter what explanation they are given for their =
problems. Instead of crying, you should be learning from this and =
reinstalling. The fact that you went ahead and made this major update =
because you have no expectations should be testament to you not doing =
such things in the future. I was going to give you advice on what to do =
when you reload, to avoid anymore problems, but you can simply FOAD =
along with your rubbled HD as far as I am concerned!

[fbionyourtail]

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 17:25:56 -0400, "Tom" > wrote:

>
>No one expects to lose anything, but it happens, and can happen just by simply getting a nasty power surge. The point is, it is never the owner's fault, no matter what explanation they are given for their problems. Instead of crying, you should be learning from this and reinstalling. The fact that you went ahead and made this major update because you have no expectations should be testament to you not doing such things in the future. I was going to give you advice on what to do when you reload, to avoid anymore problems, but you can simply FOAD along with your rubbled HD as far as I am concerned!

Wow, you really do evidently have other problems as you can't get
along with anyone in this newsgroup. It seems that you also have a
significant reading comprehension problem. The main issue here is how
and why Windows XP could "lose" installs if none of the hardware had
changed. You remind me of my friend's Dad, who thinks that nothing
ever breaks down and, if it does, then it must be somebody's fault.
Well, in this instance, neither Microsoft -- nor you, the authority --
have answers.

What I have learned from this experience posting in this newsgroup is
that it does not pay to argue with a fool lest others not be able to
tell the difference. As a result, this will be my last post to you and
I will speak to the numerous other, smart, willing, and stable
individuals in this newsgroup. I hope you consider speaking to a
therapist since taking out your personal frustrations in the
newsgroups is not a healthy way to exist.

[cquirke (MVP Win9x)]

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:48:01 -0400, "RRR_News" > wrote:

>For those considering using the Repair Recovery feature of XP, and have
>already installed SP2. I would recommend that you first uninstall SP2, then
>do the repair.

If you are alive enough to do that, you prolly should not be doing a
"repair" install in the first place. Repair install is close to last
resort, after other tshooting methods have failed, because of the
colateral damage - plus, if the PC hasn't been properly troubleshot
first, the underlying problem may make things far worse.

See http://cquirke.mvps.org/reinst.htm

"Just re-install Windows" should NEVER be a blind first-step on the
troubleshooting list!

>There was a similar problem with PC owners when they installed Win98SE
>w/IE5.01 on their PC. If they upgraded their version IE, they had a problem,
>when they tried to reinstall OS over itself.

Quite. Same with WMP, DirectX, and several other subsystem upgrades.

So by now, MS should know that if users are to be able to "just
re-install", they have to be able to integrate these updates into the
installation disk - which is now possible, in the age of CDRs.

They haven't done that, perhaps because your inability to resurrect
your PC is less important than piracy concerns?

>Also before, and after an SP2 installation, make sure that you check for
>hadware/software updates. I had to reinstall Flash Player7 after installing SP2.

IOW, prepare as if you were doing an full OS upgrade - because that is
essentially what SP2 is. Fair enough.

>Also after the SP2 installation, take a few minutes and go through the
>IE/OE Option tabs, and check out the changes there. You may have
>to reset some of the features, to the way you like these programs to work.

If you've always left those settings as default, then SP2 will impose
safer settings - it's part of the value of SP2. So don't
automatically fall back to settings that droool.

Don't expect SP2 to have the sense to curb massive allocations to IE's
web cache, or stop the PC restarting every time it has a system error,
or whenever the RPC service fails.

That's clue you still have to apply yourself. It's particularly
important to disable "Restart on system errors", as installing SP2
over some conflicting software (e.g. one particular commercial
malware) will cause errors on system startup. With the duuuuhfault
settings in place, you haven't a hope of figuring out what the hell is
going on... which is how ppl get pushed into "just re-install Windows"



>------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
The most accurate diagnostic instrument
in medicine is the Retrospectoscope
>------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

[cquirke (MVP Win9x)]

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:43:53 -0400, MJ >
>On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:06:00 -0500, "R. C. White" >

>>the difference between activation and registration?
>>Registration is NEVER required. Activation IS required.

>To begin, do you think I really give a hoot about whether
>it's called activation and registration on a technical basis?

You should, because the difference defends an important right; to
refuse to send personal details to the software vendor on demand.

One of the points waved as reason why activation is acceptable, is
that it requires no privacy impact. It's compulsory, but anonymous.

Registration is not anonymous, and can lead to junk mail and other
intrusions - that's why it has to be kept voluntary.

Every time someone blurs the difference between the two, more users
are likely to register by accident, or because they feel obliged to.

>realize that NO HARDWARE WAS CHANGED

Yes; Windows Activation can pull the pin on the DoS payload even when
hardware has not changed. That's one reason we object to it...
- if WPA info is destroyed
- some non-hardware changes are seen as hardware changes:
- CMOS setup change in hide/reveal PIII serial number
- hardware firmware updates; CDRW, SVGA BIOS, etc.
- C: is reformatted or converted to NTFS (volume serial number)

>now start making calls and explaining myself like I did at 2am

Quite. Product activation hits you when you're down, i.e. desperately
trying to deal with other problems. At which time you won't be kindly
disposed to the software or vandor, and having the vandor's proxy kick
sand in your face is just the final turd on top of the garbage heap.

>WinXP apparently does NOT allow unlimited reinstallations on the same
>computer. Perhaps you can tell me, is the experience I had a bug or a
>feature of WinXP?

It's a "feature", and a well-known one at that. You are starting to
fight a battle that's been raging since 2001, so you may as well do
some web research and read up on what ground has already been covered.



>------------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
The rights you save may be your own
>------------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

[fbionyourtail]

On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:24:15 +0200, "cquirke (MVP Win9x)"
> wrote:

>On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:43:53 -0400, MJ >
>>On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:06:00 -0500, "R. C. White" >
>
>>>the difference between activation and registration?
>>>Registration is NEVER required. Activation IS required.
>
>>To begin, do you think I really give a hoot about whether
>>it's called activation and registration on a technical basis?
>
>You should, because the difference defends an important right; to
>refuse to send personal details to the software vendor on demand.

Thank you for the extended information. However, my point was that if
it was obvious what I was talking about and that I used the incorrect
word in this instance... who really cares about the technicality? So
many use this as an opportunity to show all of us how "smart" they are
by pouncing on this. This is why I replied as such!

>One of the points waved as reason why activation is acceptable, is
>that it requires no privacy impact. It's compulsory, but anonymous.
>
>Registration is not anonymous, and can lead to junk mail and other
>intrusions - that's why it has to be kept voluntary.
>
>Every time someone blurs the difference between the two, more users
>are likely to register by accident, or because they feel obliged to.
>
>>realize that NO HARDWARE WAS CHANGED
>
>Yes; Windows Activation can pull the pin on the DoS payload even when
>hardware has not changed. That's one reason we object to it...
> - if WPA info is destroyed
> - some non-hardware changes are seen as hardware changes:
> - CMOS setup change in hide/reveal PIII serial number
> - hardware firmware updates; CDRW, SVGA BIOS, etc.
> - C: is reformatted or converted to NTFS (volume serial number)

And the prior poster said that this was impossible and that I must
have changed my hardware. The horrible thing I did was reformat the
hard drive thanks to Windows XP SP-2 screwing up everything and being
unable to be uninstalled once it was installed.

>>now start making calls and explaining myself like I did at 2am
>
>Quite. Product activation hits you when you're down, i.e. desperately
>trying to deal with other problems. At which time you won't be kindly
>disposed to the software or vandor, and having the vandor's proxy kick
>sand in your face is just the final turd on top of the garbage heap.
>
>>WinXP apparently does NOT allow unlimited reinstallations on the same
>>computer. Perhaps you can tell me, is the experience I had a bug or a
>>feature of WinXP?
>
>It's a "feature", and a well-known one at that. You are starting to
>fight a battle that's been raging since 2001, so you may as well do
>some web research and read up on what ground has already been covered.

Exactly. I was being a little facetious here given the past reference
to numerous bugs and other manners in which Windows unexpectedly does
its "magic" and which might appear to be a bug to a user is somehow
determined to be "acceptable" in the eyes of Microsoft. Thanks for
clearing everything up accurately.

[cquirke (MVP Win9x)]

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:29:20 -0400, fbionyourtail
>On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:24:15 +0200, "cquirke (MVP Win9x)"

>>>To begin, do you think I really give a hoot about whether
>>>it's called activation and registration on a technical basis?

>>You should, because the difference defends an important right; to
>>refuse to send personal details to the software vendor on demand.

>Thank you for the extended information. However, my point was that if
>it was obvious what I was talking about and that I used the incorrect
>word in this instance... who really cares about the technicality?

I do, because you are blurring the two together when you do that.

>>Windows Activation can pull the pin on the DoS payload even when
>>hardware has not changed. That's one reason we object to it...
>> - if WPA info is destroyed
>> - some non-hardware changes are seen as hardware changes:
>> - CMOS setup change in hide/reveal PIII serial number
>> - hardware firmware updates; CDRW, SVGA BIOS, etc.
>> - C: is reformatted or converted to NTFS (volume serial number)

>And the prior poster said that this was impossible and that I must
>have changed my hardware.

Not everyone is up to speed on the details of WPA...

>the horrible thing I did was reformat the hard drive

That changes the volume label, which is a system software entity that
WPA treats as if it were hardware. If you'd restored your
installation without restoring the old volume label, then you'd lose
one "life". If you already lost 3 other "lives" from prior changes,
and these hadn't cleared after 3 months of no changes, then that one
extra life lost would be enough to pull the pin on the WPA payload.

OTOH, if you formatted and re-installed the OS from scratch, then duh,
of course you'd have to activate! After all:
- it's a new installation
- existing WPA records etc. have been wiped

You'd have a 30-day fuse, whereas when WPA payload hatches in a
working install, it's 0 days (XP original) or 3 days (SP1).



>------------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
The rights you save may be your own
>------------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

[TheRealMethuselah]

First post.

I have had a similar problem, so I backed up my data and made an unattend,
slipstream installation of SP2, formatted, installed, and my system has never
run better.

I do believe there are some problems when going from XP SP1 to SP2 or from a
non SP version of XP to SP2, but doing the slipstream works flawlessly.

Here's the website I used http://unattended.msfn.org/

One thing though, and this is still a problem... when I tried to install the
ATI software for my video card, it said that the drive was incompatible or
something to that nature... but the video still works great, I just can't use
the extra features of the card.

[TheRealMethuselah]

We're all geeks here, so lets just try to get along, some of us loath
Micro$haft and some of us love it... let's just agree to disagree, install/or
not SP2 and all is well.

"cquirke (MVP Win9x)" wrote:

> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:29:20 -0400, fbionyourtail
> >On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:24:15 +0200, "cquirke (MVP Win9x)"
>
> >>>To begin, do you think I really give a hoot about whether
> >>>it's called activation and registration on a technical basis?
>
> >>You should, because the difference defends an important right; to
> >>refuse to send personal details to the software vendor on demand.
>
> >Thank you for the extended information. However, my point was that if
> >it was obvious what I was talking about and that I used the incorrect
> >word in this instance... who really cares about the technicality?
>
> I do, because you are blurring the two together when you do that.
>
> >>Windows Activation can pull the pin on the DoS payload even when
> >>hardware has not changed. That's one reason we object to it...
> >> - if WPA info is destroyed
> >> - some non-hardware changes are seen as hardware changes:
> >> - CMOS setup change in hide/reveal PIII serial number
> >> - hardware firmware updates; CDRW, SVGA BIOS, etc.
> >> - C: is reformatted or converted to NTFS (volume serial number)
>
> >And the prior poster said that this was impossible and that I must
> >have changed my hardware.
>
> Not everyone is up to speed on the details of WPA...
>
> >the horrible thing I did was reformat the hard drive
>
> That changes the volume label, which is a system software entity that
> WPA treats as if it were hardware. If you'd restored your
> installation without restoring the old volume label, then you'd lose
> one "life". If you already lost 3 other "lives" from prior changes,
> and these hadn't cleared after 3 months of no changes, then that one
> extra life lost would be enough to pull the pin on the WPA payload.
>
> OTOH, if you formatted and re-installed the OS from scratch, then duh,
> of course you'd have to activate! After all:
> - it's a new installation
> - existing WPA records etc. have been wiped
>
> You'd have a 30-day fuse, whereas when WPA payload hatches in a
> working install, it's 0 days (XP original) or 3 days (SP1).
>
>
>
> >------------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
> The rights you save may be your own
> >------------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
>

[pedro]

Ghost your drive and do a clean install you plonker

"MJ" wrote:

> I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
> Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install the
> security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
> homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA 250
> GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In one
> fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
> half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
> even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
> using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
> recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
> place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
>
> I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying to
> resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
> reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping out
> my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
> installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
> in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
> that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
> this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
> install key from them.
>
> Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give me
> another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
> full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
> require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
>
> It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
> you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
> in the future.
>

[KCKeith]

Folks I had a virtually identical experience. The only saving grace is years
ago I learned to install Windows in its own partition and my applications and
data on to separate partitions. So in my case I only lost my Windows install
and my emails in outlook.

After rebuilding my Athlon 64 PC twice now, I have learned a couple of things.

1) The issue seems to be somewhere in installing SP2 while running NTFS
with the compression option turned on. When I had to reformat the drive a
second time, I left compression turned off. I didn't have any issues then.

2) The crashing seems to be related to my BlackICE firewall. After going
into services and disabling it, the crashing stopped. Of course I now have
bug reports in to both Microsoft and ISS - and am seriously looking at
Symantec & McAffee.

"Tom" wrote:

>
> "MJ" > wrote in message ...
> >I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
> > Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install the
> > security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
> > homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA 250
> > GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In one
> > fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
> > half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
> > even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
> > using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
> > recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
> > place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
> >
> > I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying to
> > resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
> > reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping out
> > my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
> > installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
> > in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
> > that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
> > this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
> > install key from them.
> >
> > Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give me
> > another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
> > full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
> > require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
> >
> > It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
> > you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
> > in the future.
>
> Sounds like a fairly new system, and totally up to specs for anything XP, including SP2, but you didn't prepare for it. You should have read here, or at MS for the "How Tos" for installing SP2 (or any major MS update/service pack) before installing it.
>
> If your hard drive crapped out, then it is a hardware problem, and should be relegated to the manufacturer for warranty. SP2, Windows (or any software for that matter) doesn't break hardware, people do, or time does!
>

[waltercp3]

I installed SP2 5 times on the same machine and with five different results.
Last time was perfect. No driver updates, program updates. ect.
Don't condem sp2 until you have research all problems first. I am a PC tech
of 20 years and thou MS does, in fact turn out garbage at times, SP2 does
eventually make WXP better and somewhat safer (or as safe as Windows can be).
Give it a chance. For once I think MS thought this one out right. Unlike the
usual MS BS I think they, under the right situation, got it right thou
problly out of LUCK than SKILL.

"TheRealMethuselah" wrote:

> First post.
>
> I have had a similar problem, so I backed up my data and made an unattend,
> slipstream installation of SP2, formatted, installed, and my system has never
> run better.
>
> I do believe there are some problems when going from XP SP1 to SP2 or from a
> non SP version of XP to SP2, but doing the slipstream works flawlessly.
>
> Here's the website I used http://unattended.msfn.org/
>
> One thing though, and this is still a problem... when I tried to install the
> ATI software for my video card, it said that the drive was incompatible or
> something to that nature... but the video still works great, I just can't use
> the extra features of the card.
>

[trickydicky]

What an interesting thread.

SP2 trashed my 802.11g wireless broadband router connection (the software
not the hardware) it also rendered a number of applications inaccessible
(Corel Draw 8 - not very up to date but pretty mainstream). Windows Explorer
ran at a snail's pace and the hard drive bagen to refuse to boot.

My restore points also failed by the way.

Now I'm not a power user but I do maintain separate hard drives with
programmes on c: and data on d: It helps when I upgrade machines and it
means I can format C: with confidence. I also took a precautionary backup of
data onto CD before I started.

Having spent 3 hours (no exaggeration) on the phone to MS support in
Northern Ireland I was no further towards a recovery. The support technician
informed me that problems with wireless networks and broadband connections is
a common theme with SP2 upgrades.

I finally invoked the tried and tested remedy - I formatted C:, reinstalled
XP (which was an upgrade but only needed a quick peek at my ME disk).
Installed SP2 from a cover disk (cost me GBP 6.49 and a short trip to the
newsagent) and spent a happy afternoon installing essential software whilst
whistling the MS corporate song (not).

It's quite cathartic clearing the decks and spring cleaning the office
whilst waiting for installations to complete. SP2 runs fine now. With the
same software and hardware. All I can conclude is that the programmes
installed into XP SP1 got in the way of SP2's clean installation. It appears
that maybe, even when you disable Norton and Wireless Networking something is
still left resident to trip up SP2.

Shame on Microsoft for not getting it right - 802.11g has been around for a
while as has Norton.

Shame on MVP's for being unsypathetic and arrogant (too many millionaires
forgetting to be human).

Shame on the arrogant geeks who delight in picking holes in others when
their talents could be so much better employed with helpful advice.

Well done to the majority voices of compassion and reason. The truly clever
ones exhibit a social intelligence as well as technical competence.

Have a nice weekend. try to get out and breathe some fresh air. It's only
a computer after all.

Trickydicky

"TheRealMethuselah" wrote:

> We're all geeks here, so lets just try to get along, some of us loath
> Micro$haft and some of us love it... let's just agree to disagree, install/or
> not SP2 and all is well.
>
> "cquirke (MVP Win9x)" wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:29:20 -0400, fbionyourtail
> > >On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:24:15 +0200, "cquirke (MVP Win9x)"
> >
> > >>>To begin, do you think I really give a hoot about whether
> > >>>it's called activation and registration on a technical basis?
> >
> > >>You should, because the difference defends an important right; to
> > >>refuse to send personal details to the software vendor on demand.
> >
> > >Thank you for the extended information. However, my point was that if
> > >it was obvious what I was talking about and that I used the incorrect
> > >word in this instance... who really cares about the technicality?
> >
> > I do, because you are blurring the two together when you do that.
> >
> > >>Windows Activation can pull the pin on the DoS payload even when
> > >>hardware has not changed. That's one reason we object to it...
> > >> - if WPA info is destroyed
> > >> - some non-hardware changes are seen as hardware changes:
> > >> - CMOS setup change in hide/reveal PIII serial number
> > >> - hardware firmware updates; CDRW, SVGA BIOS, etc.
> > >> - C: is reformatted or converted to NTFS (volume serial number)
> >
> > >And the prior poster said that this was impossible and that I must
> > >have changed my hardware.
> >
> > Not everyone is up to speed on the details of WPA...
> >
> > >the horrible thing I did was reformat the hard drive
> >
> > That changes the volume label, which is a system software entity that
> > WPA treats as if it were hardware. If you'd restored your
> > installation without restoring the old volume label, then you'd lose
> > one "life". If you already lost 3 other "lives" from prior changes,
> > and these hadn't cleared after 3 months of no changes, then that one
> > extra life lost would be enough to pull the pin on the WPA payload.
> >
> > OTOH, if you formatted and re-installed the OS from scratch, then duh,
> > of course you'd have to activate! After all:
> > - it's a new installation
> > - existing WPA records etc. have been wiped
> >
> > You'd have a 30-day fuse, whereas when WPA payload hatches in a
> > working install, it's 0 days (XP original) or 3 days (SP1).
> >
> >
> >
> > >------------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
> > The rights you save may be your own
> > >------------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
> >

[Shane]

What does this or the previous post have to do with calling Product
Activation, Registration?


Shane


"trickydicky" > wrote in message
...
> What an interesting thread.
>
> SP2 trashed my 802.11g wireless broadband router connection (the software
> not the hardware) it also rendered a number of applications inaccessible
> (Corel Draw 8 - not very up to date but pretty mainstream). Windows
Explorer
> ran at a snail's pace and the hard drive bagen to refuse to boot.
>
> My restore points also failed by the way.
>
> Now I'm not a power user but I do maintain separate hard drives with
> programmes on c: and data on d: It helps when I upgrade machines and it
> means I can format C: with confidence. I also took a precautionary backup
of
> data onto CD before I started.
>
> Having spent 3 hours (no exaggeration) on the phone to MS support in
> Northern Ireland I was no further towards a recovery. The support
technician
> informed me that problems with wireless networks and broadband connections
is
> a common theme with SP2 upgrades.
>
> I finally invoked the tried and tested remedy - I formatted C:,
reinstalled
> XP (which was an upgrade but only needed a quick peek at my ME disk).
> Installed SP2 from a cover disk (cost me GBP 6.49 and a short trip to the
> newsagent) and spent a happy afternoon installing essential software
whilst
> whistling the MS corporate song (not).
>
> It's quite cathartic clearing the decks and spring cleaning the office
> whilst waiting for installations to complete. SP2 runs fine now. With
the
> same software and hardware. All I can conclude is that the programmes
> installed into XP SP1 got in the way of SP2's clean installation. It
appears
> that maybe, even when you disable Norton and Wireless Networking something
is
> still left resident to trip up SP2.
>
> Shame on Microsoft for not getting it right - 802.11g has been around for
a
> while as has Norton.
>
> Shame on MVP's for being unsypathetic and arrogant (too many millionaires
> forgetting to be human).
>
> Shame on the arrogant geeks who delight in picking holes in others when
> their talents could be so much better employed with helpful advice.
>
> Well done to the majority voices of compassion and reason. The truly
clever
> ones exhibit a social intelligence as well as technical competence.
>
> Have a nice weekend. try to get out and breathe some fresh air. It's
only
> a computer after all.
>
> Trickydicky
>
> "TheRealMethuselah" wrote:
>
> > We're all geeks here, so lets just try to get along, some of us loath
> > Micro$haft and some of us love it... let's just agree to disagree,
install/or
> > not SP2 and all is well.
> >
> > "cquirke (MVP Win9x)" wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:29:20 -0400, fbionyourtail
> > > >On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:24:15 +0200, "cquirke (MVP Win9x)"
> > >
> > > >>>To begin, do you think I really give a hoot about whether
> > > >>>it's called activation and registration on a technical basis?
> > >
> > > >>You should, because the difference defends an important right; to
> > > >>refuse to send personal details to the software vendor on demand.
> > >
> > > >Thank you for the extended information. However, my point was that if
> > > >it was obvious what I was talking about and that I used the incorrect
> > > >word in this instance... who really cares about the technicality?
> > >
> > > I do, because you are blurring the two together when you do that.
> > >
> > > >>Windows Activation can pull the pin on the DoS payload even when
> > > >>hardware has not changed. That's one reason we object to it...
> > > >> - if WPA info is destroyed
> > > >> - some non-hardware changes are seen as hardware changes:
> > > >> - CMOS setup change in hide/reveal PIII serial number
> > > >> - hardware firmware updates; CDRW, SVGA BIOS, etc.
> > > >> - C: is reformatted or converted to NTFS (volume serial number)
> > >
> > > >And the prior poster said that this was impossible and that I must
> > > >have changed my hardware.
> > >
> > > Not everyone is up to speed on the details of WPA...
> > >
> > > >the horrible thing I did was reformat the hard drive
> > >
> > > That changes the volume label, which is a system software entity that
> > > WPA treats as if it were hardware. If you'd restored your
> > > installation without restoring the old volume label, then you'd lose
> > > one "life". If you already lost 3 other "lives" from prior changes,
> > > and these hadn't cleared after 3 months of no changes, then that one
> > > extra life lost would be enough to pull the pin on the WPA payload.
> > >
> > > OTOH, if you formatted and re-installed the OS from scratch, then duh,
> > > of course you'd have to activate! After all:
> > > - it's a new installation
> > > - existing WPA records etc. have been wiped
> > >
> > > You'd have a 30-day fuse, whereas when WPA payload hatches in a
> > > working install, it's 0 days (XP original) or 3 days (SP1).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >------------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
> > > The rights you save may be your own
> > > >------------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
> > >

[cquirke (MVP Win9x)]

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 22:07:02 -0700, "KCKeith"

>Folks I had a virtually identical experience. The only saving grace is years
>ago I learned to install Windows in its own partition and my applications and
>data on to separate partitions. So in my case I only lost my Windows install
>and my emails in outlook.

You can relocate Outlook's .PST and OE's mail data off C:, as well as
the data locations in "Documents and Settings" (TweakUI for XP).

You should do both, IMO.

>After rebuilding my Athlon 64 PC twice now, I have learned a couple of things.

>1) The issue seems to be somewhere in installing SP2 while running NTFS
>with the compression option turned on. When I had to reformat the drive a
>second time, I left compression turned off. I didn't have any issues then.

Don't use compression all over C:; there are several core files that
will not work if compressed!

>2) The crashing seems to be related to my BlackICE firewall.

Make verrrrry sure Black Ice is patched against Witty !!!

>seriously looking at Symantec & McAffee.

Look beyond those retail turkeys, either to free options (Kerio, AVG)
or paid-for heavywieights (Kaspersky).


>-- Risk Management is the clue that asks:
"Why do I keep open buckets of petrol next to all the
ashtrays in the lounge, when I don't even have a car?"
>----------------------- ------ ---- --- -- - - - -

[Rock]

trickydicky wrote:

> What an interesting thread.
>
> SP2 trashed my 802.11g wireless broadband router connection (the software
> not the hardware) it also rendered a number of applications inaccessible
> (Corel Draw 8 - not very up to date but pretty mainstream). Windows Explorer
> ran at a snail's pace and the hard drive bagen to refuse to boot.
>
> My restore points also failed by the way.
>
> Now I'm not a power user but I do maintain separate hard drives with
> programmes on c: and data on d: It helps when I upgrade machines and it
> means I can format C: with confidence. I also took a precautionary backup of
> data onto CD before I started.
>
> Having spent 3 hours (no exaggeration) on the phone to MS support in
> Northern Ireland I was no further towards a recovery. The support technician
> informed me that problems with wireless networks and broadband connections is
> a common theme with SP2 upgrades.
>
> I finally invoked the tried and tested remedy - I formatted C:, reinstalled
> XP (which was an upgrade but only needed a quick peek at my ME disk).
> Installed SP2 from a cover disk (cost me GBP 6.49 and a short trip to the
> newsagent) and spent a happy afternoon installing essential software whilst
> whistling the MS corporate song (not).
>
> It's quite cathartic clearing the decks and spring cleaning the office
> whilst waiting for installations to complete. SP2 runs fine now. With the
> same software and hardware. All I can conclude is that the programmes
> installed into XP SP1 got in the way of SP2's clean installation. It appears
> that maybe, even when you disable Norton and Wireless Networking something is
> still left resident to trip up SP2.
>

Your statement, "All I can conclude is that the programmes installed
into XP SP1 got in the way of SP2's clean installation." says volumes.
With all due respect for the problems _some_ people are having and their
grief, there is no way an upgrade of this magnitude -- and of the
operating system no less -- can be expected to cope with all the myriad
permutations. I am neither an MS fan or basher. I don't see how it can
work for everyone no matter how much testing is done.

> Shame on Microsoft for not getting it right - 802.11g has been around for a
> while as has Norton.

Norton (and in general Symantec products) has caused many problems not
just with SP2. Read the newsgroups and see how many issues are related
to a Symantec product. So it's not only an issue of how long it's been
around but how well coded the product is.

>
> Shame on MVP's for being unsypathetic and arrogant (too many millionaires
> forgetting to be human).

I'm sorry but -- MVP's being millionaires? Some might, I don't know,
but certainly not from being MVP's.

>
> Shame on the arrogant geeks who delight in picking holes in others when
> their talents could be so much better employed with helpful advice.
>
> Well done to the majority voices of compassion and reason. The truly clever
> ones exhibit a social intelligence as well as technical competence.
>
> Have a nice weekend. try to get out and breathe some fresh air. It's only
> a computer after all.
>
> Trickydicky
>

[El Rayo-XP]

I understand the frustrations of the OP regarding the authentication &
licensing issue involved with the reinstalls. But that it came to this point
is really a hole the OP dug him/herself, and should be treated as a painful
learning experience. I have been through similar purgatories. This is no
justification for the criticisms of MS stated and implied.

On the XP SP2 install problems, I have to say that this has been one of the
better prepared roll-outs I have seen from MS. However, I do not like the
auto-install via WU feature alluded to in previous posts, and think that
users might benefit from some "mandatory speedbumps" along the way before
committing to upgrade.

My install went smooth enough, having installed/updated a couple of items as
advised by OEMs. A radical upgrade such as this requires a modicum of due
diligence employed in advance - and I don't just mean skip-reading some docs.
The problem I see is that many of the folks who like the tricked out,
cutting-edge., blow-ya-pals-away, "built-it-myself-4-less-than-U", killer
systems, have somewhat less respect for the "diligence" part than they have
for the "due". This is unfortunate given that home-built or custom systems
probably need even greater diligence.

I would advise users planning to upgrade to prepare for possible USB issues
with XP SP2. However these can be solved with updates/refreshes of
appropriate chipset INF files. The chipset/motherboard manufacturer should
be included in the due diligence.I

On the subject of Firewalls, avoid Norton/McAfee and most of the other "2nd
wave" companies. Go with the free & effective ZoneALarm (the upgrade to Pro
is well worth it). Of the globocorps, I would choose the CA eTrust Armor.
Both are dang good. I believe that my SP2 install was facilitated by the
prior use of ZA Pro, SpyBot SD, & SpywareBlaster (all free in some form). My
machine was in better shape (with a leaner & cleaner registry), and ZoneAlarm
even recognised the new WIndows Firewall & disabled it (a just choice IMHO,
but you can choose 4 yourself however).

All in all, kudos to MS on this one - pretty smooth for such a radical
upgrade.

"cquirke (MVP Win9x)" wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 22:07:02 -0700, "KCKeith"
>
> >Folks I had a virtually identical experience. The only saving grace is years
> >ago I learned to install Windows in its own partition and my applications and
> >data on to separate partitions. So in my case I only lost my Windows install
> >and my emails in outlook.
>
> You can relocate Outlook's .PST and OE's mail data off C:, as well as
> the data locations in "Documents and Settings" (TweakUI for XP).
>
> You should do both, IMO.
>
> >After rebuilding my Athlon 64 PC twice now, I have learned a couple of things.
>
> >1) The issue seems to be somewhere in installing SP2 while running NTFS
> >with the compression option turned on. When I had to reformat the drive a
> >second time, I left compression turned off. I didn't have any issues then.
>
> Don't use compression all over C:; there are several core files that
> will not work if compressed!
>
> >2) The crashing seems to be related to my BlackICE firewall.
>
> Make verrrrry sure Black Ice is patched against Witty !!!
>
> >seriously looking at Symantec & McAffee.
>
> Look beyond those retail turkeys, either to free options (Kerio, AVG)
> or paid-for heavywieights (Kaspersky).
>
>
> >-- Risk Management is the clue that asks:
> "Why do I keep open buckets of petrol next to all the
> ashtrays in the lounge, when I don't even have a car?"
> >----------------------- ------ ---- --- -- - - - -
>

[mik]

I installed 2 of our xp systems xp home and xp pro and both of them failed
badly.....the xp home editions would not/couldnt not recognise our wireless
network and my xp pro edition crashed and I was not very happy as it was my
work computer....At least I backed up...but that isnt the problem its the
time lost by having to re-install everything and installing my back-ups...all
I can the sooner linux can have some decent accounting software for my
business the sooner I will be dumping Windows.
Mik

"Rho_1r" wrote:

> I Installed sp2 no problems at all, I dont understand why so many have these
> problems, I dont have one of them.
> Rho_1r(VIP) not MVP
>
> "Tom" wrote:
>
> >
> > "MJ" > wrote in message ...
> > >I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
> > > Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install the
> > > security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
> > > homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA 250
> > > GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In one
> > > fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
> > > half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
> > > even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
> > > using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
> > > recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
> > > place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
> > >
> > > I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying to
> > > resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
> > > reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping out
> > > my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
> > > installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
> > > in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
> > > that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
> > > this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
> > > install key from them.
> > >
> > > Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give me
> > > another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
> > > full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
> > > require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
> > >
> > > It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
> > > you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
> > > in the future.
> >
> > Sounds like a fairly new system, and totally up to specs for anything XP, including SP2, but you didn't prepare for it. You should have read here, or at MS for the "How Tos" for installing SP2 (or any major MS update/service pack) before installing it.
> >
> > If your hard drive crapped out, then it is a hardware problem, and should be relegated to the manufacturer for warranty. SP2, Windows (or any software for that matter) doesn't break hardware, people do, or time does!
> >

[Alias]

Being as you're going to have to do a reinstall anyway, install SP2
immediately after installing the OS and you shouldn't have any problems.
Personally, I wouldn't even try to install SP without reinstalling Windows
first. I have done three computers in two different languages that way and
had no problems whatsoever (other than the hassle of disabling all the new
"security" features in SP2).

Alias

"mik" > wrote

> I installed 2 of our xp systems xp home and xp pro and both of them failed
> badly.....the xp home editions would not/couldnt not recognise our
wireless
> network and my xp pro edition crashed and I was not very happy as it was
my
> work computer....At least I backed up...but that isnt the problem its the
> time lost by having to re-install everything and installing my
back-ups...all
> I can the sooner linux can have some decent accounting software for my
> business the sooner I will be dumping Windows.
> Mik
>
> "Rho_1r" wrote:
>
> > I Installed sp2 no problems at all, I dont understand why so many have
these
> > problems, I dont have one of them.
> > Rho_1r(VIP) not MVP
> >
> > "Tom" wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > "MJ" > wrote in message
...
> > > >I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
> > > > Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install
the
> > > > security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
> > > > homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA
250
> > > > GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In
one
> > > > fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
> > > > half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
> > > > even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to
fix
> > > > using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
> > > > recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
> > > > place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
> > > >
> > > > I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying
to
> > > > resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
> > > > reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping
out
> > > > my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
> > > > installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
> > > > in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
> > > > that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
> > > > this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
> > > > install key from them.
> > > >
> > > > Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give
me
> > > > another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
> > > > full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
> > > > require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
> > > >
> > > > It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
> > > > you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
> > > > in the future.
> > >
> > > Sounds like a fairly new system, and totally up to specs for anything
XP, including SP2, but you didn't prepare for it. You should have read here,
or at MS for the "How Tos" for installing SP2 (or any major MS
update/service pack) before installing it.
> > >
> > > If your hard drive crapped out, then it is a hardware problem, and
should be relegated to the manufacturer for warranty. SP2, Windows (or any
software for that matter) doesn't break hardware, people do, or time does!
> > >

[Defeated]

I had a similar problem. My PC is as Intel as can be. Intel Motherboard and
P4 2+ghz processor and lots of memory. One major difference is that I had
upgraded to XP Pro. from an earlier version of windows and could not
reistall from an upgrade and had lost my original old windows CD and startup
floppy. After many calls to their help center which offered no help in fact
it was the tech on the MSOFT end that finally killed my machine. After
escalating this to a managers level, they sent me a new CD to install from.
All in all I was down for over a month and am still finding out things that I
have lost as I had to do a total install which wiped out my HD completely. A
real horrifying experience. My faut though, I should know better than to
install this level of upgrade this soon in the cycle. My advice, wait 6
months to install major upgrades. Maybe by then the killer bugs will be fixed

"MJ" wrote:

> I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
> Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install the
> security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
> homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA 250
> GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In one
> fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
> half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
> even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
> using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
> recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
> place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
>
> I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying to
> resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
> reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping out
> my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
> installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
> in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
> that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
> this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
> install key from them.
>
> Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give me
> another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
> full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
> require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
>
> It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
> you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
> in the future.
>

[Rock]

Defeated wrote:

> I had a similar problem. My PC is as Intel as can be. Intel Motherboard and
> P4 2+ghz processor and lots of memory. One major difference is that I had
> upgraded to XP Pro. from an earlier version of windows and could not
> reistall from an upgrade and had lost my original old windows CD and startup
> floppy. After many calls to their help center which offered no help in fact
> it was the tech on the MSOFT end that finally killed my machine. After
> escalating this to a managers level, they sent me a new CD to install from.
> All in all I was down for over a month and am still finding out things that I
> have lost as I had to do a total install which wiped out my HD completely. A
> real horrifying experience. My faut though, I should know better than to
> install this level of upgrade this soon in the cycle. My advice, wait 6
> months to install major upgrades. Maybe by then the killer bugs will be fixed
>
> "MJ" wrote:
>
>
>>I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
>>Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install the
>>security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
>>homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA 250
>>GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In one
>>fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
>>half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
>>even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
>>using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
>>recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
>>place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.
>>
>>I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying to
>>resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
>>reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping out
>>my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
>>installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
>>in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
>>that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
>>this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
>>install key from them.
>>
>>Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give me
>>another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
>>full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
>>require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."
>>
>>It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
>>you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
>>in the future.
>>

Having a complete backup helps too. That is the cornerstone of PC work.