Second hard drive disappearing. new pc

[Elflan]

I got a new pc and I'm new to XP. My other pc's are win98's.
I took a 40 gig Maxtor HD from my old pc where I was using it as a
slave, and put it into a new HP Pavillion 505 PC. At first everything
was fine, XP found the hardware and assigned letter F:(local drive) to
it.
I moved the jumper on the MAXTOR to the "cable select" position and
plugged it into the slave on the primary cable. Previosly, I had not
used the jumper at all with my old pc. I just plugged it into the
slave on the ribbon.

I then plugged in a USB Card Reader and at first everything was fine
until I actually inserted a CF card into the Card Reader. When I did
that, XP changed the logo for the Sandisk Card Reader and replaced
that logo with a little "card" logo and called it "Belkin 128", or
something like that. When XP did that, I noticed my second hard
drive was missing.
Ok, I unplugged the card reader, took all the usb hubs out of device
mgr and rebooted. When Xp came up, my 2nd hard drive was there.
I reinstalled the Card Reader software and things worked for a few
minutes but it seems like the 2nd HD just disappears whenever it feels
like it.

I went to the Sandisk web site and found out there seemed to be a
problem with the Card Reader's assigned drive letter might be
conflicting with or just too close to, the 2nd hard drive letter
assignment.
So, on their recommendation, I went into control panel/ administrator/
something /something and actually assigned the Card reader another
letter. I gave it an "H". So I had the following drive letters, In My
Computer under Hard Disks;
1st HD= C,
the stupid HP partition recovery section= D,
Slave HD=F(local drive).
Under removeable storage media;
the CD-RW optical drive=E,
and (sometimes),Sandisk Card Reader=G
That didn't work.
When I reboot, it will briefly show the F drive and the card reader is
"G"
until I insert the card and then it will give the card reader the F
letter.
It's confusing.

I thought maybe it was a loose connection or something. When I
installed the slave drive the first time,I had to twist the crap out
of the cable to make the my Maxtor,the slave on the primary.
Anyway, I went back into the Case and replaced the cable with another
cable.
It booted fine after that but the problem persisted. It seemed I
would lose the 2nd HD for no particular reason. Dammit.

I have rebooted and I went into setup. I don't even see the 2nd HD in
the BIOS under Primary Slave. What gives?
It's not in device mgr either.
I don't know if what's going on.

This is probably not related, I can't boot into XP while I have the
Card Reader plugged in. I unplug the USB card reader and it boots
fine.
I don't know why that is.

When I got the PC, I thought I would have a full version of XP but I
don't. I have the cheap-ass home edition. I'm not too thrilled with XP
right now. I guess if I would just RTFM I might be more impressed.
If any of you can make sense of any of this, any help would be
appreciated.

[Larry]

Make sure 1st hard drive is jumper is set to master
and make sure 2nd hard drive is set to slave not cable select.
Also make sure the cable that is plugged into your hard drives is correct
there should be a notch on the cable. make sure it is aligned right.


"Elflan" > wrote in message
om...
> I got a new pc and I'm new to XP. My other pc's are win98's.
> I took a 40 gig Maxtor HD from my old pc where I was using it as a
> slave, and put it into a new HP Pavillion 505 PC. At first everything
> was fine, XP found the hardware and assigned letter F:(local drive) to
> it.
> I moved the jumper on the MAXTOR to the "cable select" position and
> plugged it into the slave on the primary cable. Previosly, I had not
> used the jumper at all with my old pc. I just plugged it into the
> slave on the ribbon.
>
> I then plugged in a USB Card Reader and at first everything was fine
> until I actually inserted a CF card into the Card Reader. When I did
> that, XP changed the logo for the Sandisk Card Reader and replaced
> that logo with a little "card" logo and called it "Belkin 128", or
> something like that. When XP did that, I noticed my second hard
> drive was missing.
> Ok, I unplugged the card reader, took all the usb hubs out of device
> mgr and rebooted. When Xp came up, my 2nd hard drive was there.
> I reinstalled the Card Reader software and things worked for a few
> minutes but it seems like the 2nd HD just disappears whenever it feels
> like it.
>
> I went to the Sandisk web site and found out there seemed to be a
> problem with the Card Reader's assigned drive letter might be
> conflicting with or just too close to, the 2nd hard drive letter
> assignment.
> So, on their recommendation, I went into control panel/ administrator/
> something /something and actually assigned the Card reader another
> letter. I gave it an "H". So I had the following drive letters, In My
> Computer under Hard Disks;
> 1st HD= C,
> the stupid HP partition recovery section= D,
> Slave HD=F(local drive).
> Under removeable storage media;
> the CD-RW optical drive=E,
> and (sometimes),Sandisk Card Reader=G
> That didn't work.
> When I reboot, it will briefly show the F drive and the card reader is
> "G"
> until I insert the card and then it will give the card reader the F
> letter.
> It's confusing.
>
> I thought maybe it was a loose connection or something. When I
> installed the slave drive the first time,I had to twist the crap out
> of the cable to make the my Maxtor,the slave on the primary.
> Anyway, I went back into the Case and replaced the cable with another
> cable.
> It booted fine after that but the problem persisted. It seemed I
> would lose the 2nd HD for no particular reason. Dammit.
>
> I have rebooted and I went into setup. I don't even see the 2nd HD in
> the BIOS under Primary Slave. What gives?
> It's not in device mgr either.
> I don't know if what's going on.
>
> This is probably not related, I can't boot into XP while I have the
> Card Reader plugged in. I unplug the USB card reader and it boots
> fine.
> I don't know why that is.
>
> When I got the PC, I thought I would have a full version of XP but I
> don't. I have the cheap-ass home edition. I'm not too thrilled with XP
> right now. I guess if I would just RTFM I might be more impressed.
> If any of you can make sense of any of this, any help would be
> appreciated.

[D.Currie]

You might be better off if you set one drive as master and the other as
slave rather than using cable select. On some computers, cable select works
fine, on others, it's iffy. And I've found that some cables don't support
cable select either. No clue why, it's just something I've seen.

If the bios isn't seeing the drive, it's not a Windows problem, it's
hardware related. If you've mangled the cable, it could be damaged. You
might want to try a new cable while you're at it. And if you're using
master/slave rather than cable select, it doesn't matter which connector you
use on the cable, so you won't need to mangle another cable.


"Elflan" > wrote in message
om...
> I got a new pc and I'm new to XP. My other pc's are win98's.
> I took a 40 gig Maxtor HD from my old pc where I was using it as a
> slave, and put it into a new HP Pavillion 505 PC. At first everything
> was fine, XP found the hardware and assigned letter F:(local drive) to
> it.
> I moved the jumper on the MAXTOR to the "cable select" position and
> plugged it into the slave on the primary cable. Previosly, I had not
> used the jumper at all with my old pc. I just plugged it into the
> slave on the ribbon.
>
> I then plugged in a USB Card Reader and at first everything was fine
> until I actually inserted a CF card into the Card Reader. When I did
> that, XP changed the logo for the Sandisk Card Reader and replaced
> that logo with a little "card" logo and called it "Belkin 128", or
> something like that. When XP did that, I noticed my second hard
> drive was missing.
> Ok, I unplugged the card reader, took all the usb hubs out of device
> mgr and rebooted. When Xp came up, my 2nd hard drive was there.
> I reinstalled the Card Reader software and things worked for a few
> minutes but it seems like the 2nd HD just disappears whenever it feels
> like it.
>
> I went to the Sandisk web site and found out there seemed to be a
> problem with the Card Reader's assigned drive letter might be
> conflicting with or just too close to, the 2nd hard drive letter
> assignment.
> So, on their recommendation, I went into control panel/ administrator/
> something /something and actually assigned the Card reader another
> letter. I gave it an "H". So I had the following drive letters, In My
> Computer under Hard Disks;
> 1st HD= C,
> the stupid HP partition recovery section= D,
> Slave HD=F(local drive).
> Under removeable storage media;
> the CD-RW optical drive=E,
> and (sometimes),Sandisk Card Reader=G
> That didn't work.
> When I reboot, it will briefly show the F drive and the card reader is
> "G"
> until I insert the card and then it will give the card reader the F
> letter.
> It's confusing.
>
> I thought maybe it was a loose connection or something. When I
> installed the slave drive the first time,I had to twist the crap out
> of the cable to make the my Maxtor,the slave on the primary.
> Anyway, I went back into the Case and replaced the cable with another
> cable.
> It booted fine after that but the problem persisted. It seemed I
> would lose the 2nd HD for no particular reason. Dammit.
>
> I have rebooted and I went into setup. I don't even see the 2nd HD in
> the BIOS under Primary Slave. What gives?
> It's not in device mgr either.
> I don't know if what's going on.
>
> This is probably not related, I can't boot into XP while I have the
> Card Reader plugged in. I unplug the USB card reader and it boots
> fine.
> I don't know why that is.
>
> When I got the PC, I thought I would have a full version of XP but I
> don't. I have the cheap-ass home edition. I'm not too thrilled with XP
> right now. I guess if I would just RTFM I might be more impressed.
> If any of you can make sense of any of this, any help would be
> appreciated.

[Donald Link]

Very good advice on setting up as master/slave versus cable select. Setting
up this makes for a trouble free enviorment.



"D.Currie" > wrote in message
...
> You might be better off if you set one drive as master and the other as
> slave rather than using cable select. On some computers, cable select
works
> fine, on others, it's iffy. And I've found that some cables don't support
> cable select either. No clue why, it's just something I've seen.
>
> If the bios isn't seeing the drive, it's not a Windows problem, it's
> hardware related. If you've mangled the cable, it could be damaged. You
> might want to try a new cable while you're at it. And if you're using
> master/slave rather than cable select, it doesn't matter which connector
you
> use on the cable, so you won't need to mangle another cable.
>
>
> "Elflan" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I got a new pc and I'm new to XP. My other pc's are win98's.
> > I took a 40 gig Maxtor HD from my old pc where I was using it as a
> > slave, and put it into a new HP Pavillion 505 PC. At first everything
> > was fine, XP found the hardware and assigned letter F:(local drive) to
> > it.
> > I moved the jumper on the MAXTOR to the "cable select" position and
> > plugged it into the slave on the primary cable. Previosly, I had not
> > used the jumper at all with my old pc. I just plugged it into the
> > slave on the ribbon.
> >
> >

[Elflan]

"Donald Link" > wrote in message >...
> Very good advice on setting up as master/slave versus cable select. Setting
> up this makes for a trouble free enviorment.
>
>
>
> "D.Currie" > wrote in message
> ...
> > You might be better off if you set one drive as master and the other as
> > slave rather than using cable select. On some computers, cable select
> works
> > fine, on others, it's iffy. And I've found that some cables don't support
> > cable select either. No clue why, it's just something I've seen.
> >
> > If the bios isn't seeing the drive, it's not a Windows problem, it's
> > hardware related. If you've mangled the cable, it could be damaged. You
> > might want to try a new cable while you're at it. And if you're using
> > master/slave rather than cable select, it doesn't matter which connector
> you
> > use on the cable, so you won't need to mangle another cable.
> >
> >
> > "Elflan" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > I got a new pc and I'm new to XP. My other pc's are win98's.
> > > I took a 40 gig Maxtor HD from my old pc where I was using it as a
> > > slave, and put it into a new HP Pavillion 505 PC. At first everything
> > > was fine, XP found the hardware and assigned letter F:(local drive) to
> > > it.
> > > I moved the jumper on the MAXTOR to the "cable select" position and
> > > plugged it into the slave on the primary cable. Previosly, I had not
> > > used the jumper at all with my old pc. I just plugged it into the
> > > slave on the ribbon.
> > >
> > >

Thanks everybody, for the help.
I'll change the jumper to slave and see what happens.
I'll post my results.

[Elflan]

Results after changing the jumper to Slave; A qualified SUCCESS!
I changed the jumper back to slave,which on this jumper block means
not using the jumper and "storing it"horizontally.

I booted and, at first the drive did not show up.

I looked in Device MGr for the drive and it did not list.
I rebooted and entered Setup. I saw the slave drive listed in the
BIOS.
I got out of Setup and when the pc booted into windows, I saw in My
Computer where the new slave drive was listed.
I plugged in the USB Card Reader and experimented with it and, so far,
the slave drive has not disappeared.

I have an extra monitor and keyboard,mouse etc setup on a "bench" in
my basement.This is where I was working on the pc. The bootup process
I described above happened there. When I took the PC back upstairs and
hooked it all up there, the same thing happened with the drive not
displaying at regular bootup. I repeated the boot up process, checking
the BIOs etc and it works again.
My question, does it just take a long time for the pc to recognize the
slave drive?
Also, when I was in the BIOS, I was able to access the "administrator
password".
It says I can set this password for access to the Setup Settings.
If I want to set a "user password" at boot up, like I do with my other
pc, can I do that with this Win XP home edition?

[Sharon F]

On 26 Jun 2003 12:05:39 -0700, (Elflan) wrote:

>Results after changing the jumper to Slave; A qualified SUCCESS!
>I changed the jumper back to slave,which on this jumper block means
>not using the jumper and "storing it"horizontally.
>
>I booted and, at first the drive did not show up.
>
>I looked in Device MGr for the drive and it did not list.
>I rebooted and entered Setup. I saw the slave drive listed in the
>BIOS.
>I got out of Setup and when the pc booted into windows, I saw in My
>Computer where the new slave drive was listed.
>I plugged in the USB Card Reader and experimented with it and, so far,
>the slave drive has not disappeared.
>
>I have an extra monitor and keyboard,mouse etc setup on a "bench" in
>my basement.This is where I was working on the pc. The bootup process
>I described above happened there. When I took the PC back upstairs and
>hooked it all up there, the same thing happened with the drive not
>displaying at regular bootup. I repeated the boot up process, checking
>the BIOs etc and it works again.
>My question, does it just take a long time for the pc to recognize the
>slave drive?
>Also, when I was in the BIOS, I was able to access the "administrator
>password".
>It says I can set this password for access to the Setup Settings.
>If I want to set a "user password" at boot up, like I do with my other
>pc, can I do that with this Win XP home edition?

The slave drive may be slower to spin up than the new drive. Do you
know its specs? You may have a setting in BIOS that tells the system
to "wait" for the drive before continuing the POST and boot process.
If the setting is available, may want to give that a try to see if it
helps.

Any passwords that can be setup in BIOS are completely separate from
the Windows usernames/passwords. Based on your comments, it sounds to
me like your BIOS has extra password features that go beyond the basic
option to protect system settings. Again, anything implemented in BIOS
of this nature would be in addition to and separate from Windows
passwords.


Sharon F
MS MVP/ Shell User

[Elflan]

?
>
> The slave drive may be slower to spin up than the new drive. Do you
> know its specs? You may have a setting in BIOS that tells the system
> to "wait" for the drive before continuing the POST and boot process.
> If the setting is available, may want to give that a try to see if it
> helps.
>
> Any passwords that can be setup in BIOS are completely separate from
> the Windows usernames/passwords. Based on your comments, it sounds to
> me like your BIOS has extra password features that go beyond the basic
> option to protect system settings. Again, anything implemented in BIOS
> of this nature would be in addition to and separate from Windows
> passwords.
>
>
> Sharon F
> MS MVP/ Shell User

Thanks for the input. Regarding the passwords, I just want to be
prompted at boot up for password. Like I have on my other pc. I don't
know if I'm supposed to create the administrator password to be
allowed a user password.
I guess I would like to protect system settings but mostly, I just
want to protect my pc at startup.

Now, regarding the hard drive. I thought my problem was solved but
NOOOOO.
I can just be sitting here and without my doing anything, the 2nd HD
will just disappear. Sometimes I hear the "event chime", and sometimes
I dont. I go to the Device Mgr and it's gone again.
This is thoroughly p***ing me off

[Sharon F]

On 26 Jun 2003 17:48:31 -0700, (Elflan) wrote:

>?
>>
>> The slave drive may be slower to spin up than the new drive. Do you
>> know its specs? You may have a setting in BIOS that tells the system
>> to "wait" for the drive before continuing the POST and boot process.
>> If the setting is available, may want to give that a try to see if it
>> helps.
>>
>> Any passwords that can be setup in BIOS are completely separate from
>> the Windows usernames/passwords. Based on your comments, it sounds to
>> me like your BIOS has extra password features that go beyond the basic
>> option to protect system settings. Again, anything implemented in BIOS
>> of this nature would be in addition to and separate from Windows
>> passwords.
>>
>>
>> Sharon F
>> MS MVP/ Shell User
>
>Thanks for the input. Regarding the passwords, I just want to be
>prompted at boot up for password. Like I have on my other pc. I don't
>know if I'm supposed to create the administrator password to be
>allowed a user password.
>I guess I would like to protect system settings but mostly, I just
>want to protect my pc at startup.

Control Panel> User Accounts. Put a password on any account. It's fine
to add one for the administrator account.

Under Change how users log on and off, checking the Welcome screen box
brings up the new XP logon screen that displays a list of user names
with their preferred user icons. Unchecking the box, will cause the old
Win2000 style logon box (similar to Win9x network logon as well).


>
>Now, regarding the hard drive. I thought my problem was solved but
>NOOOOO.
>I can just be sitting here and without my doing anything, the 2nd HD
>will just disappear. Sometimes I hear the "event chime", and sometimes
>I dont. I go to the Device Mgr and it's gone again.
>This is thoroughly p***ing me off

The event chime usually sounds when a USB or firewire device is
disconnected. Any news in Event Viewer that coincides with the time of
the chimes? There may be a clue there about what is going wrong with
these drives.

WARNING! Personal experience coming up here:

I know Sandisk is a popular brand and works fine for most folks. And
most people can use them without installing the extra Sandisk drivers. I
had no such luck. Had to use the drivers and had nothing but trouble
with them. Out of disgust I bought the cheapest reader on the shelves at
the local computer store. Figured the little PNY unit couldn't be any
worse than the Sandisk. It has worked perfectly since the first time it
was plugged in. Requires no extra drivers.

Sharon F
MS MVP [Shell/User]

[Elflan]

Sharon F > wrote in message >...
> On 26 Jun 2003 17:48:31 -0700, (Elflan) wrote:
>
> >?
> >> Any passwords that can be setup in BIOS are completely separate from
> >> the Windows usernames/passwords. Based on your comments, it sounds to
> >> me like your BIOS has extra password features that go beyond the basic
> >> option to protect system settings. Again, anything implemented in BIOS
> >> of this nature would be in addition to and separate from Windows
> >> passwords.
> >>
> >>
> >> Sharon F
> >> MS MVP/ Shell User
> >
> >Thanks for the input. Regarding the passwords, I just want to be
> >prompted at boot up for password. Like I have on my other pc. I don't
> >know if I'm supposed to create the administrator password to be
> >allowed a user password.
> >I guess I would like to protect system settings but mostly, I just
> >want to protect my pc at startup.
>
> Control Panel> User Accounts. Put a password on any account. It's fine
> to add one for the administrator account.
>
> Under Change how users log on and off, checking the Welcome screen box
> brings up the new XP logon screen that displays a list of user names
> with their preferred user icons. Unchecking the box, will cause the old
> Win2000 style logon box (similar to Win9x network logon as well).
>
>
> >
> >Now, regarding the hard drive. I thought my problem was solved but
> >NOOOOO.
> >I can just be sitting here and without my doing anything, the 2nd HD
> >will just disappear. Sometimes I hear the "event chime", and sometimes
> >I dont. I go to the Device Mgr and it's gone again.
> >This is thoroughly p***ing me off
>
> The event chime usually sounds when a USB or firewire device is
> disconnected. Any news in Event Viewer that coincides with the time of
> the chimes? There may be a clue there about what is going wrong with
> these drives.
>
> WARNING! Personal experience coming up here:
>
> I know Sandisk is a popular brand and works fine for most folks. And
> most people can use them without installing the extra Sandisk drivers. I
> had no such luck. Had to use the drivers and had nothing but trouble
> with them. Out of disgust I bought the cheapest reader on the shelves at
> the local computer store. Figured the little PNY unit couldn't be any
> worse than the Sandisk. It has worked perfectly since the first time it
> was plugged in. Requires no extra drivers.
>
> Sharon F
> MS MVP [Shell/User]

Thanks for the reply,
It's been several days since I "fooled" with the missing "hard drive"
and when I went to "event viewer", I see a long list and I can't
really make out what these items mean. It seems a bunch of "events"
have happened since I played around with the 2nd hard drive.
I guess I will take it apart again for what seems like the 5th time
and make sure the cable connectors are plugged in tightly. This is all
I can figure to do.
Here's another question;
If my 2nd hard drive was previously in a Win98 machine and I plug it
into my new XP machine, could that somehow contribute to these "drop
outs" in recognition of the slave drive? I mean, when I had it on the
bench and powered it up, it worked fine. It recognized the drive(s),
and I could plug in the Sandisk reader and it gave it was given a
drive letter. I could move files to and from my "2nd hard drive" to
the Sandisk Card reader and everything was beautiful. I take it
upstairs and plug it all back in, and a few minutes later, it decides
to drop my 2nd hard drive letter. It doesn't show up in Device Mgr, or
the Bios.

I will take your advice and buy another,(sigh) card reader and see if
that helps but if I get this PC to recognize the slave again. I'm
going to wait several days before I even plug in another card reader.
I want to see if the USB issue is really the problem.
Also I set the password according to your recommendations but I have
not played with it yet.
I'll give a status report after I go back in and play with it some
more.
elflan.

[Sharon F]

Answers inline:

On 1 Jul 2003 08:20:30 -0700, (Elflan) wrote:

>Thanks for the reply,
>It's been several days since I "fooled" with the missing "hard drive"
>and when I went to "event viewer", I see a long list and I can't
>really make out what these items mean. It seems a bunch of "events"
>have happened since I played around with the 2nd hard drive.
>I guess I will take it apart again for what seems like the 5th time
>and make sure the cable connectors are plugged in tightly. This is all
>I can figure to do.

When in Event Viewer, you can double click any error to see more
details. If you are online, you can click the link in the same window.
The resulting page will often (but not always) have more information
about that error. These extras may help you to decipher the error
messages a little better.

>Here's another question;
>If my 2nd hard drive was previously in a Win98 machine and I plug it
>into my new XP machine, could that somehow contribute to these "drop
>outs" in recognition of the slave drive?

No. Unless that drive was running overlay software or was monitored by
GoBack, it should not be a problem. Since the drive sporadically works
okay, it's safe to assume these are not present.

>I mean, when I had it on the
>bench and powered it up, it worked fine. It recognized the drive(s),
>and I could plug in the Sandisk reader and it gave it was given a
>drive letter. I could move files to and from my "2nd hard drive" to
>the Sandisk Card reader and everything was beautiful. I take it
>upstairs and plug it all back in, and a few minutes later, it decides
>to drop my 2nd hard drive letter. It doesn't show up in Device Mgr, or
>the Bios.

Were you using the Sandisk reader before the 2nd hard drive was added?
If yes, you might want to experiment with drive letters. Change the 2nd
hard drive to a letter that is further down the alphabet than the
reader. See what happens.

Also, when moving the machine from the bench to its usual place, a
connector may have wiggled loose. Or you may have a connector with a
slight break. One that is not serious enough that the drive never works
but perhaps shows it presence only when the drive is operating (the
normal vibration from the drive may accentuate the fault in the cable).

>I will take your advice and buy another,(sigh) card reader and see if
>that helps but if I get this PC to recognize the slave again. I'm
>going to wait several days before I even plug in another card reader.
>I want to see if the USB issue is really the problem.
>Also I set the password according to your recommendations but I have
>not played with it yet.
>I'll give a status report after I go back in and play with it some
>more.
>elflan.

I can understand waiting on the reader. I would concentrate on that
drive for now. I doubt the USB stuff is getting in the way. Barring a
problem with the IDE cable, it is more likely you will find that the
Sandisk drivers or the drive lettering is what will help in the end.

Good luck,
Sharon F
MS MVP [Shell/User]