SP2??

[Patty]

After reading so many horror stories about SP2 in these newsgroups, I'm kind
of sceptical about downloading it. Is it truly necessary to download it or
am I safe as long as I have SP1 and keep my Windows Updates - Updated??
Is there any necessary steps that should be taken before SP2 is downloaded??
Such as, turning off your AV program or Firewall? Any help here would be
appreciated. Patty

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

Help newsgroups are somewhat like a hospital.....folks tend
to only visit when an illness unfortunately occurs.

SP2 is a solid, secure release. It is a major "Critical Update"
for Windows XP and updates about 5 million lines of code,
enabling much stronger security, stability, and affords a tad better
performance benefit. I would encourage you to install it.

You may wish to view the following:

Top 10 Reasons to Install Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2)
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/topten.mspx

List of fixes included in Windows XP Service Pack 2
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;811113&Product=windowsxpsp2

Learn About Windows XP Service Pack 2
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/preinstall.mspx

What to Know Before You Download and Install Windows XP Service Pack 2
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/sp2_whattoknow.mspx

Scan your PC for the presence of viruses and spyware before installing SP2:

Download Ad-aware SE and scan your PC for the presence of spyware:
http://www.download.com/3000-2144-10045910.html?part=69274&subj=dlpage&tag=button

Symantec Security Check
http://security.symantec.com/sscv6/default.asp?langid=ie&venid=sym

I would suggest performing the following maintenance prior to
installing SP2:

Description of the Disk Cleanup Tool in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;310312&Product=winxp

How to Perform Disk Error Checking in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;315265&Product=winxp

After installing SP2, run the above maintenance utilities again, then perform a Defrag:

HOW TO: Analyze and Defragment a Disk in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;305781&Product=winxp

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

Be Smart! Protect Your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Patty" wrote:

| After reading so many horror stories about SP2 in these newsgroups, I'm kind
| of sceptical about downloading it. Is it truly necessary to download it or
| am I safe as long as I have SP1 and keep my Windows Updates - Updated??
| Is there any necessary steps that should be taken before SP2 is downloaded??
| Such as, turning off your AV program or Firewall? Any help here would be
| appreciated. Patty

[Mary Alice]

Patty - I've yet to have anyone show to me a sp2 feature that I can't live
without. I've has people use words like 'should' and 'recommend' but no one
has used the word 'need'. The word can't apply since many of us have
survived just fine sans sp2.

--

"Patty" > wrote in message
...
> After reading so many horror stories about SP2 in these newsgroups, I'm
kind
> of sceptical about downloading it. Is it truly necessary to download it
or
> am I safe as long as I have SP1 and keep my Windows Updates - Updated??
> Is there any necessary steps that should be taken before SP2 is
downloaded??
> Such as, turning off your AV program or Firewall? Any help here would be
> appreciated. Patty
>
>

[Bill Crocker]

Here is a good place to start.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/default.mspx

Bill Crocker


"Patty" > wrote in message
...
> After reading so many horror stories about SP2 in these newsgroups, I'm
> kind
> of sceptical about downloading it. Is it truly necessary to download it
> or
> am I safe as long as I have SP1 and keep my Windows Updates - Updated??
> Is there any necessary steps that should be taken before SP2 is
> downloaded??
> Such as, turning off your AV program or Firewall? Any help here would be
> appreciated. Patty
>
>

[EW]

"Mary Alice" > wrote in message
...
> Patty - I've yet to have anyone show to me a sp2 feature that I can't
> live
> without. I've has people use words like 'should' and 'recommend' but no
> one
> has used the word 'need'. The word can't apply since many of us have
> survived just fine sans sp2.
>
> --

Mary, you really NEED the security that SP-2 provides! Plus, the pop-up
blocker is very good and the firewall is rock solid. Lots of other changes
that provide improvement. I was extremely nervous about installing it, but
I did, and it works great. Besides, if problems arise, one can always
uninstall it.

EW

[Ken Blake]

In ,
Mary Alice > typed:

> Patty - I've yet to have anyone show to me a sp2 feature that
> I
> can't live without. I've has people use words like 'should'
> and
> 'recommend' but no one has used the word 'need'. The word
> can't
> apply since many of us have survived just fine sans sp2.


With SP2, you're dealing mostly with fixes and security issues.
Think of it like the seatbelts or airbag in your car. Do you want
to say that you don't "need" a seatbelt or an airbag? After all,
the word can't apply since many of us have survived for years
just fine sans seatbelt or airbag.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup

[R. McCarty]

One thing that keeps getting overlooked, is the XP code itself has
been recompiled with hooks to prevent "Buffer Overflows". This
is a common avenue for hackers and Malware. It's not glamorous
or even noticeable to users, but it's there. If there is a single reason
to consider Service Pack 2, I would say that's it.

"Ken Blake" > wrote in message
...
> In ,
> Mary Alice > typed:
>
>> Patty - I've yet to have anyone show to me a sp2 feature that I
>> can't live without. I've has people use words like 'should' and
>> 'recommend' but no one has used the word 'need'. The word can't
>> apply since many of us have survived just fine sans sp2.
>
>
> With SP2, you're dealing mostly with fixes and security issues. Think of
> it like the seatbelts or airbag in your car. Do you want to say that you
> don't "need" a seatbelt or an airbag? After all, the word can't apply
> since many of us have survived for years just fine sans seatbelt or
> airbag.
>
> --
> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
> Please reply to the newsgroup
>

[Mary Alice]

I don't need/use the existing windows firewalls - they interfere with my
"Microsoft Windows Network" (Imagine THAT) - so the same-ole on steroids
will serve no purpose here either.

I get so few popup ads - Google gets most of them - that issue is of no
never mind. If they were to offer an IE popup blocker that was a simple
snap-in, put one icon on an existing toolbar to simply turn it on/off, I may
be interested.

Security? I routinely run security checks/attacks against my computers and
they are always 100% stealth!

I'm 'into' computers more than the average user by a pretty fair bit. I
like having the 'latest-and-greatest' just as much as the next. I'm NOT
against Microsoft updates. I have all pertinent to windows, Microsoft
hardware and software updates to date.

IMO - sp2 offers not a single thing that's worth the risk!

--

"EW" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mary Alice" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Patty - I've yet to have anyone show to me a sp2 feature that I can't
> > live
> > without. I've has people use words like 'should' and 'recommend' but no
> > one
> > has used the word 'need'. The word can't apply since many of us have
> > survived just fine sans sp2.
> >
> > --
>
> Mary, you really NEED the security that SP-2 provides! Plus, the pop-up
> blocker is very good and the firewall is rock solid. Lots of other
changes
> that provide improvement. I was extremely nervous about installing it,
but
> I did, and it works great. Besides, if problems arise, one can always
> uninstall it.
>
> EW
>
>

[Mary Alice]

If it's SOooo important, why didn't they offer it as a single update and
leave all the other eye-candy, show-and-tell stuff off?

--

"R. McCarty" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> One thing that keeps getting overlooked, is the XP code itself has
> been recompiled with hooks to prevent "Buffer Overflows". This
> is a common avenue for hackers and Malware. It's not glamorous
> or even noticeable to users, but it's there. If there is a single reason
> to consider Service Pack 2, I would say that's it.
>
> "Ken Blake" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In ,
> > Mary Alice > typed:
> >
> >> Patty - I've yet to have anyone show to me a sp2 feature that I
> >> can't live without. I've has people use words like 'should' and
> >> 'recommend' but no one has used the word 'need'. The word can't
> >> apply since many of us have survived just fine sans sp2.
> >
> >
> > With SP2, you're dealing mostly with fixes and security issues. Think of
> > it like the seatbelts or airbag in your car. Do you want to say that you
> > don't "need" a seatbelt or an airbag? After all, the word can't apply
> > since many of us have survived for years just fine sans seatbelt or
> > airbag.
> >
> > --
> > Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
> > Please reply to the newsgroup
> >
>
>

[Mary Alice]

But - if I'm standing in line at my local auto dealer, along with a few
hundred thousand others, waiting to get the recall done on my airbag and
seatbelts and I notice that, at a bare minimum, one in ten of the finished
jobs is not done right and/or causes, in most cases, other, unrelated to
airbags and seatbelts features of my car to not function as intended, I'm
going to get out of line. Especially when there is most likely another 10%
that have post recall problems, that don't even know it, and just drive off.

--

"Ken Blake"

> With SP2, you're dealing mostly with fixes and security issues.
> Think of it like the seatbelts or airbag in your car. Do you want
> to say that you don't "need" a seatbelt or an airbag? After all,
> the word can't apply since many of us have survived for years
> just fine sans seatbelt or airbag.
>
> --
> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
> Please reply to the newsgroup
>
>

[R. McCarty]

Beg your pardon - I'm talking about the entire XP software package.
Not a single module or update, but the entire package. It's this type
of change that can prevent widespread infections, when the next Sasser
or Blaster turn up in the wild.
As to eye-candy, that can be easily removed or changed. I still use
the "Classic Theme" on my machine. Service Pack 2 actually adds
little if any esthetic features. Actually, they removed the product type
from the Splash screen so you might say they de-fluffed it a bit.

"Mary Alice" > wrote in message
...
> If it's SOooo important, why didn't they offer it as a single update and
> leave all the other eye-candy, show-and-tell stuff off?
>
> --
>
> "R. McCarty" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>> One thing that keeps getting overlooked, is the XP code itself has
>> been recompiled with hooks to prevent "Buffer Overflows". This
>> is a common avenue for hackers and Malware. It's not glamorous
>> or even noticeable to users, but it's there. If there is a single reason
>> to consider Service Pack 2, I would say that's it.
>>
>> "Ken Blake" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In ,
>> > Mary Alice > typed:
>> >
>> >> Patty - I've yet to have anyone show to me a sp2 feature that I
>> >> can't live without. I've has people use words like 'should' and
>> >> 'recommend' but no one has used the word 'need'. The word can't
>> >> apply since many of us have survived just fine sans sp2.
>> >
>> >
>> > With SP2, you're dealing mostly with fixes and security issues. Think
>> > of
>> > it like the seatbelts or airbag in your car. Do you want to say that
>> > you
>> > don't "need" a seatbelt or an airbag? After all, the word can't apply
>> > since many of us have survived for years just fine sans seatbelt or
>> > airbag.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
>> > Please reply to the newsgroup
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

[Rock]

Patty wrote:

> After reading so many horror stories about SP2 in these newsgroups, I'm kind
> of sceptical about downloading it. Is it truly necessary to download it or
> am I safe as long as I have SP1 and keep my Windows Updates - Updated??
> Is there any necessary steps that should be taken before SP2 is downloaded??
> Such as, turning off your AV program or Firewall? Any help here would be
> appreciated. Patty
>
>

Preparation is the key to a successful upgrade, Patty. Notwithstanding
the problems posted to this group, the upgrade goes fine for the vast
majority of users. Backup your system before hand, which is something
you should be doing all the time, anyway. If something goes wrong sp2
can be easily uninstalled, and we are here to help if you have questions
and/or issues. Don't be afraid of something just based on the words of
some vocal nay sayers.

Installing Service Packs
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/xpsp2.htm
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/spackins.htm

Pre-Install, Install, Cleaning Up Afterwards
http://forum.aumha.org/viewforum.php?f=45

What to Know Before You Download and Install Windows XP Service Pack 2
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/sp2_whattoknow.mspx

Get the Latest Updates and Information from Your PC Manufacturer Before
Installing Windows XP Service Pack 2
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/oemlinks.mspx

The hard disk space requirements for Windows XP Service Pack 2
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=837783

Changes to Functionality in Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/sp2chngs.mspx

Windows XP Service Pack 2: What's New for Internet Explorer and Outlook
Express
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/ieoeoverview.mspx

[Ken Blake]

"Mary Alice" > wrote in message
...

> But - if I'm standing in line at my local auto dealer, along
> with a few
> hundred thousand others, waiting to get the recall done on my
> airbag and
> seatbelts and I notice that, at a bare minimum, one in ten of
> the finished
> jobs is not done right and/or causes, in most cases, other,
> unrelated to
> airbags and seatbelts features of my car to not function as
> intended, I'm
> going to get out of line. Especially when there is most likely
> another 10%
> that have post recall problems, that don't even know it, and
> just drive off.


Your choice. You're making a serious mistake, as far as I'm
concerned, but I won't try to persuade you what to do.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup



> "Ken Blake"
>
>> With SP2, you're dealing mostly with fixes and security
>> issues.
>> Think of it like the seatbelts or airbag in your car. Do you
>> want
>> to say that you don't "need" a seatbelt or an airbag? After
>> all,
>> the word can't apply since many of us have survived for years
>> just fine sans seatbelt or airbag.
>>
>> --
>> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
>> Please reply to the newsgroup
>>
>>
>
>

[luminos]

"Mary Alice" > wrote in message
...
> Patty - I've yet to have anyone show to me a sp2 feature that I can't
> live
> without.

That is because the features are not visible.

> I've has people use words like 'should' and 'recommend' but no one
> has used the word 'need'. The word can't apply since many of us have
> survived just fine sans sp2.
>
> --
>
> "Patty" > wrote in message
> ...
>> After reading so many horror stories about SP2 in these newsgroups, I'm
> kind
>> of sceptical about downloading it. Is it truly necessary to download it
> or
>> am I safe as long as I have SP1 and keep my Windows Updates - Updated??
>> Is there any necessary steps that should be taken before SP2 is
> downloaded??
>> Such as, turning off your AV program or Firewall? Any help here would be
>> appreciated. Patty
>>
>>
>
>

[luminos]

You have a disaster waiting to happen and are obstinate enough to ignore it.

"Mary Alice" > wrote in message
...
>I don't need/use the existing windows firewalls - they interfere with my
> "Microsoft Windows Network" (Imagine THAT) - so the same-ole on steroids
> will serve no purpose here either.
>
> I get so few popup ads - Google gets most of them - that issue is of no
> never mind. If they were to offer an IE popup blocker that was a simple
> snap-in, put one icon on an existing toolbar to simply turn it on/off, I
> may
> be interested.
>
> Security? I routinely run security checks/attacks against my computers
> and
> they are always 100% stealth!
>
> I'm 'into' computers more than the average user by a pretty fair bit. I
> like having the 'latest-and-greatest' just as much as the next. I'm NOT
> against Microsoft updates. I have all pertinent to windows, Microsoft
> hardware and software updates to date.
>
> IMO - sp2 offers not a single thing that's worth the risk!
>
> --
>
> "EW" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Mary Alice" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Patty - I've yet to have anyone show to me a sp2 feature that I can't
>> > live
>> > without. I've has people use words like 'should' and 'recommend' but
>> > no
>> > one
>> > has used the word 'need'. The word can't apply since many of us have
>> > survived just fine sans sp2.
>> >
>> > --
>>
>> Mary, you really NEED the security that SP-2 provides! Plus, the pop-up
>> blocker is very good and the firewall is rock solid. Lots of other
> changes
>> that provide improvement. I was extremely nervous about installing it,
> but
>> I did, and it works great. Besides, if problems arise, one can always
>> uninstall it.
>>
>> EW
>>
>>
>
>

[luminos]

This is a stupid comment.

"Mary Alice" > wrote in message
...
> If it's SOooo important, why didn't they offer it as a single update and
> leave all the other eye-candy, show-and-tell stuff off?

[Mary Alice]

Preparation my Axx!!

If a user had taken Microsoft's lying word and turned on Automatic Updates
when it first became available, trusted his computer updates to them, as the
Automatic Update implies, they would have NO idea that preparation, of any
sort/kind, was not only recommended but demanded prior to sp2 install.

--

"Rock" > wrote in message
...
> Patty wrote:
>
> > After reading so many horror stories about SP2 in these newsgroups, I'm
kind
> > of sceptical about downloading it. Is it truly necessary to download it
or
> > am I safe as long as I have SP1 and keep my Windows Updates - Updated??
> > Is there any necessary steps that should be taken before SP2 is
downloaded??
> > Such as, turning off your AV program or Firewall? Any help here would
be
> > appreciated. Patty
> >
> >
>
> Preparation is the key to a successful upgrade, Patty. Notwithstanding
> the problems posted to this group, the upgrade goes fine for the vast
> majority of users. Backup your system before hand, which is something
> you should be doing all the time, anyway. If something goes wrong sp2
> can be easily uninstalled, and we are here to help if you have questions
> and/or issues. Don't be afraid of something just based on the words of
> some vocal nay sayers.
>
> Installing Service Packs
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/xpsp2.htm
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/spackins.htm
>
> Pre-Install, Install, Cleaning Up Afterwards
> http://forum.aumha.org/viewforum.php?f=45
>
> What to Know Before You Download and Install Windows XP Service Pack 2
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/sp2_whattoknow.mspx
>
> Get the Latest Updates and Information from Your PC Manufacturer Before
> Installing Windows XP Service Pack 2
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/oemlinks.mspx
>
> The hard disk space requirements for Windows XP Service Pack 2
> http://support.microsoft.com/?id=837783
>
> Changes to Functionality in Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2
>
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/sp2chngs.mspx
>
> Windows XP Service Pack 2: What's New for Internet Explorer and Outlook
> Express
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/ieoeoverview.mspx
>

[Mary Alice]

Semantics - Ok, I'll play.

Don't 'show' me then - how about *telling* be about a feature I can't live
without?

--

"luminos" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mary Alice" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Patty - I've yet to have anyone show to me a sp2 feature that I can't
> > live
> > without.
>
> That is because the features are not visible.
>
> > I've has people use words like 'should' and 'recommend' but no one
> > has used the word 'need'. The word can't apply since many of us have
> > survived just fine sans sp2.
> >
> > --
> >
> > "Patty" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> After reading so many horror stories about SP2 in these newsgroups, I'm
> > kind
> >> of sceptical about downloading it. Is it truly necessary to download
it
> > or
> >> am I safe as long as I have SP1 and keep my Windows Updates - Updated??
> >> Is there any necessary steps that should be taken before SP2 is
> > downloaded??
> >> Such as, turning off your AV program or Firewall? Any help here would
be
> >> appreciated. Patty
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

[Mary Alice]

And - can you explain exactly what that is going to be?


--

"luminos" > wrote in message
...
> You have a disaster waiting to happen and are obstinate enough to ignore
it.
>
> "Mary Alice" > wrote in message
> ...
> >I don't need/use the existing windows firewalls - they interfere with my
> > "Microsoft Windows Network" (Imagine THAT) - so the same-ole on steroids
> > will serve no purpose here either.
> >
> > I get so few popup ads - Google gets most of them - that issue is of no
> > never mind. If they were to offer an IE popup blocker that was a simple
> > snap-in, put one icon on an existing toolbar to simply turn it on/off, I
> > may
> > be interested.
> >
> > Security? I routinely run security checks/attacks against my computers
> > and
> > they are always 100% stealth!
> >
> > I'm 'into' computers more than the average user by a pretty fair bit. I
> > like having the 'latest-and-greatest' just as much as the next. I'm NOT
> > against Microsoft updates. I have all pertinent to windows, Microsoft
> > hardware and software updates to date.
> >
> > IMO - sp2 offers not a single thing that's worth the risk!
> >
> > --
> >
> > "EW" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "Mary Alice" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > Patty - I've yet to have anyone show to me a sp2 feature that I
can't
> >> > live
> >> > without. I've has people use words like 'should' and 'recommend' but
> >> > no
> >> > one
> >> > has used the word 'need'. The word can't apply since many of us have
> >> > survived just fine sans sp2.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >>
> >> Mary, you really NEED the security that SP-2 provides! Plus, the
pop-up
> >> blocker is very good and the firewall is rock solid. Lots of other
> > changes
> >> that provide improvement. I was extremely nervous about installing it,
> > but
> >> I did, and it works great. Besides, if problems arise, one can always
> >> uninstall it.
> >>
> >> EW
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

[John R. Sellers]

"Ken Blake" > wrote in message

> With SP2, you're dealing mostly with fixes and security issues.
> Think of it like the seatbelts or airbag in your car. Do you want
> to say that you don't "need" a seatbelt or an airbag?

Lemme tell you what I told Alex: I get the feeling you're saying this
because you work for them. As I said B4, I have ZoneAlarm, I have AVG, I
have DCOMbobulator, and every check I do @ GRCs 'Sheilds Up' gets a passing
grade
of TruStealth.

Why would I need it?

[Mary Alice]

Every time I check and both my systems.

<quote>
All attempts to get any information from your computer have FAILED. (This is
very uncommon for a Windows networking-based PC.) Relative to
vulnerabilities from Windows networking, this computer appears to be VERY
SECURE since it is NOT exposing ANY of its internal NetBIOS networking
protocol over the Internet.
</quote.

Plus NAV pro running as well as two anti-spyware applets.

> Why would I need it?

I agree


--

"John R. Sellers" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ken Blake" > wrote in message
>
> > With SP2, you're dealing mostly with fixes and security issues.
> > Think of it like the seatbelts or airbag in your car. Do you want
> > to say that you don't "need" a seatbelt or an airbag?
>
> Lemme tell you what I told Alex: I get the feeling you're saying this
> because you work for them. As I said B4, I have ZoneAlarm, I have AVG, I
> have DCOMbobulator, and every check I do @ GRCs 'Sheilds Up' gets a
passing
> grade
> of TruStealth.
>
> Why would I need it?
>
>

[Rock]

Mary Alice wrote:

> Preparation my Axx!!
>
> If a user had taken Microsoft's lying word and turned on Automatic Updates
> when it first became available, trusted his computer updates to them, as the
> Automatic Update implies, they would have NO idea that preparation, of any
> sort/kind, was not only recommended but demanded prior to sp2 install.
>

Why do you have some personal issue about this? Yes preparation is the
key. Always has been with computers. Preparation, knowledge,
maintenance, backups, and safe computing. A bit of each of these and
most problems are avoided or easily resolved.

[jt3]

I haven't installed SP2 yet, but it is only because I'm still fighting
problems with the CPU on my new machine, and it's usually sound advice to
avoid complication where a problem already exists. I plan to, however, when
the problem is resolved--a large number of the fixes involved help cut down
on further attacks on everyone else's machine, so one does it at least
partly as a responsibility, seems to me.

Joe
"Rock" > wrote in message
...
> Patty wrote:
>
> > After reading so many horror stories about SP2 in these newsgroups, I'm
kind
> > of sceptical about downloading it. Is it truly necessary to download it
or
> > am I safe as long as I have SP1 and keep my Windows Updates - Updated??
> > Is there any necessary steps that should be taken before SP2 is
downloaded??
> > Such as, turning off your AV program or Firewall? Any help here would
be
> > appreciated. Patty
> >
> >
>
> Preparation is the key to a successful upgrade, Patty. Notwithstanding
> the problems posted to this group, the upgrade goes fine for the vast
> majority of users. Backup your system before hand, which is something
> you should be doing all the time, anyway. If something goes wrong sp2
> can be easily uninstalled, and we are here to help if you have questions
> and/or issues. Don't be afraid of something just based on the words of
> some vocal nay sayers.
>
> Installing Service Packs
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/xpsp2.htm
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/spackins.htm
>
> Pre-Install, Install, Cleaning Up Afterwards
> http://forum.aumha.org/viewforum.php?f=45
>
> What to Know Before You Download and Install Windows XP Service Pack 2
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/sp2_whattoknow.mspx
>
> Get the Latest Updates and Information from Your PC Manufacturer Before
> Installing Windows XP Service Pack 2
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/oemlinks.mspx
>
> The hard disk space requirements for Windows XP Service Pack 2
> http://support.microsoft.com/?id=837783
>
> Changes to Functionality in Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2
>
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/sp2chngs.mspx
>
> Windows XP Service Pack 2: What's New for Internet Explorer and Outlook
> Express
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/ieoeoverview.mspx
>

[Mary Alice]

And - another one

Conclusion: Healthy Setup! We could detect no interesting responses from any
of the commonly probed TCP and UDP ports. It would be difficult for an
attacker to know where to start without further information.

I could go on with three of four more - but what would be the point.

WHAT in sp2 is going to make my computers more secure?

--

"Mary Alice" > wrote in message
...
> Every time I check and both my systems.
>
> <quote>
> All attempts to get any information from your computer have FAILED. (This
is
> very uncommon for a Windows networking-based PC.) Relative to
> vulnerabilities from Windows networking, this computer appears to be VERY
> SECURE since it is NOT exposing ANY of its internal NetBIOS networking
> protocol over the Internet.
> </quote.
>
> Plus NAV pro running as well as two anti-spyware applets.
>
> > Why would I need it?
>
> I agree
>
>
> --
>
> "John R. Sellers" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Ken Blake" > wrote in message
> >
> > > With SP2, you're dealing mostly with fixes and security issues.
> > > Think of it like the seatbelts or airbag in your car. Do you want
> > > to say that you don't "need" a seatbelt or an airbag?
> >
> > Lemme tell you what I told Alex: I get the feeling you're saying this
> > because you work for them. As I said B4, I have ZoneAlarm, I have AVG,
I
> > have DCOMbobulator, and every check I do @ GRCs 'Sheilds Up' gets a
> passing
> > grade
> > of TruStealth.
> >
> > Why would I need it?
> >
> >
>
>

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

Top 10 Reasons to Install Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2)
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/topten.mspx

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

Be Smart! Protect Your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Mary Alice" wrote:

| WHAT in sp2 is going to make my computers more secure?

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Mary Alice;
Yes preparation is the key.
If you would look at the link provided, Service Pack Installation
Checklist, (it seems you haven't) most of the preparation (red) is
routine maintenance, what every computer routinely needs anyways.
Why do you think it is unnecessary to maintain your computer?

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Mary Alice" > wrote in message
...
> Preparation my Axx!!
>
> If a user had taken Microsoft's lying word and turned on Automatic
> Updates
> when it first became available, trusted his computer updates to
> them, as the
> Automatic Update implies, they would have NO idea that preparation,
> of any
> sort/kind, was not only recommended but demanded prior to sp2
> install.

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Definitely resolve all issues first.
Pre-existing problems known and unknown cause a lot of SP-2 issues.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"jt3" > wrote in message
...
> I haven't installed SP2 yet, but it is only because I'm still
> fighting
> problems with the CPU on my new machine, and it's usually sound
> advice to
> avoid complication where a problem already exists. I plan to,
> however, when
> the problem is resolved--a large number of the fixes involved help
> cut down
> on further attacks on everyone else's machine, so one does it at
> least
> partly as a responsibility, seems to me.

[Don Taylor]

>"Mary Alice" > wrote in message
>> Patty - I've yet to have anyone show to me a sp2 feature that I can't
>> live without.

"luminos" > writes:
>That is because the features are not visible.

But we have seen multiple posters here swearing that they have
personally witnessed that SP2 is the greatest advance in computing
since the invention of one and zero.

Actually I'd like to see what it is that they have seen.

[John R. Sellers]

"Carey Frisch [MVP]" > wrote in message
...
> Top 10 Reasons to Install Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2)
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/topten.mspx
>
Lemme tell you what I told Alex and Ken: I get the feeling you're saying
this
because you work for them. As I said B4, I have ZoneAlarm, I have AVG, I
have DCOMbobulator, and every check I do @ GRCs 'Sheilds Up' gets a passing
grade of TruStealth.

Why would I need it?

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

John;
If you are vigilant at keeping your computer secure, you may not need
SP-2...today, tomorrow may be a different answer.

Most people that have to ask, need SP-2

None of them work for Microsoft.
They also do not have any obligation to promote any Microsoft product
or patch.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"John R. Sellers" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Carey Frisch [MVP]" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Top 10 Reasons to Install Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2)
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/topten.mspx
>>
> Lemme tell you what I told Alex and Ken: I get the feeling you're
> saying
> this
> because you work for them. As I said B4, I have ZoneAlarm, I have
> AVG, I
> have DCOMbobulator, and every check I do @ GRCs 'Sheilds Up' gets a
> passing
> grade of TruStealth.
>
> Why would I need it?

[>Joe Anderson-Davis]

How do you get from a dislike of automatic updates to assuming the poster
doesn't maintain her computer?
Do all you MVP types have divine powers?




"Jupiter Jones [MVP]"

> Mary Alice;
>
> Why do you think it is unnecessary to maintain your computer?
>

[John R. Sellers]

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message
...
> They also do not have any obligation to promote any Microsoft product
> or patch.

So I guess all the MVPs in here get paid to do this?

[John R. Sellers]

">Joe Anderson-Davis<" > wrote in message
...
> Do all you MVP types have divine powers?

LOL. Maybe they pray to Bill Gate$ as their Go.

[Ron Bogart]

In ,
John R. Sellers > gathered his thoughts and came up
with these words:
> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message
> ...
>> They also do not have any obligation to promote any Microsoft product
>> or patch.
>
> So I guess all the MVPs in here get paid to do this?

Totally voluntary

--
Ron Bogart {} ô¿ô¬
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
"Life is what happens while we are making other plans."

[John R. Sellers]

"John R. Sellers" > wrote in message
...
>
> ">Joe Anderson-Davis<" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Do all you MVP types have divine powers?
>
> LOL. Maybe they pray to Bill Gate$ as their Go.
>
>
Typo: shoulda been God, not Go.

[>Joe Anderson-Davis]

Many of them get an all expense paid annual trip to Redmond to rub shoulders
with their heroes and pick up a few trinkets from the manufactures
warehouse.

That seems to enough for some people to return here and make fools of
themselves.

--

"John R. Sellers" > wrote in message
...
>
> ">Joe Anderson-Davis<" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Do all you MVP types have divine powers?
>
> LOL. Maybe they pray to Bill Gate$ as their Go.
>
>

[luminos]

"Don Taylor" > wrote in message
...
> >"Mary Alice" > wrote in message
>>> Patty - I've yet to have anyone show to me a sp2 feature that I can't
>>> live without.
>
> "luminos" > writes:
>>That is because the features are not visible.
>
> But we have seen multiple posters here swearing that they have
> personally witnessed that SP2 is the greatest advance in computing
> since the invention of one and zero.
>
> Actually I'd like to see what it is that they have seen.

Sigh. Seen?

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

MVPs do not get paid.
Everything an MVP does is completely voluntary:
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;EN-US;mvpfaqs&style=flat

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"John R. Sellers" > wrote in message
news:Tf-dnah0O9iSAsrcRVn-> So I guess all the MVPs in here get paid to
do this?

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Where do you get this wrong information?

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


">Joe Anderson-Davis<" > wrote in message
...
> Many of them get an all expense paid annual trip to Redmond to rub
> shoulders
> with their heroes and pick up a few trinkets from the manufactures
> warehouse.
>
> That seems to enough for some people to return here and make fools
> of
> themselves.

[>Joe Anderson-Davis]

BTDT

--

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message
...
> Where do you get this wrong information?
>
> --
> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/
>
>
> ">Joe Anderson-Davis<" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Many of them get an all expense paid annual trip to Redmond to rub
> > shoulders
> > with their heroes and pick up a few trinkets from the manufactures
> > warehouse.
> >
> > That seems to enough for some people to return here and make fools
> > of
> > themselves.
>
>

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Divine powers not necessary, basic reading is.
Did you read Mary Alice post?
Apparently not.

How about the first line?
"Preparation my Axx!!"

How about the last two lines?
"Automatic Update implies, they would have NO idea that preparation,
of any sort/kind, was not only recommended but demanded prior to sp2
install."

She wrote about preparation.
Whether you see it or not, it is still there.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


">Joe Anderson-Davis<" > wrote in message
...
> How do you get from a dislike of automatic updates to assuming the
> poster
> doesn't maintain her computer?
> Do all you MVP types have divine powers?
>
>
>
>
> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]"
>
>> Mary Alice;
>>
>> Why do you think it is unnecessary to maintain your computer?

[>Joe Anderson-Davis]

Again - How do you get from the poster speaking to the sad state of
automatic updates to her personal computer(s) not being maintained.

Unlike MVPs, some in the world don't function in a perpetual first person
mode.

--

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message
...
> Divine powers not necessary, basic reading is.
> Did you read Mary Alice post?
> Apparently not.
>
> How about the first line?
> "Preparation my Axx!!"
>
> How about the last two lines?
> "Automatic Update implies, they would have NO idea that preparation,
> of any sort/kind, was not only recommended but demanded prior to sp2
> install."
>
> She wrote about preparation.
> Whether you see it or not, it is still there.
>
> --
> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/
>
>
> ">Joe Anderson-Davis<" > wrote in message
> ...
> > How do you get from a dislike of automatic updates to assuming the
> > poster
> > doesn't maintain her computer?
> > Do all you MVP types have divine powers?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Jupiter Jones [MVP]"
> >
> >> Mary Alice;
> >>
> >> Why do you think it is unnecessary to maintain your computer?
>
>

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

That is an interesting place to get WRONG information.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


">Joe Anderson-Davis<" > wrote in message
...
> BTDT
>
> --
>
> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Where do you get this wrong information?
>>
>> --
>> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
>> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Read the posts again...for the first time.

Also your insults show your own character flaws as well as your
insecurity with your point of view.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


">Joe Anderson-Davis<" > wrote in message
...
> Again - How do you get from the poster speaking to the sad state of
> automatic updates to her personal computer(s) not being maintained.
>
> Unlike MVPs, some in the world don't function in a perpetual first
> person
> mode.

[Don Taylor]

"luminos" > writes:
>"Don Taylor" > wrote in message
...
>> >"Mary Alice" > wrote in message
>>>> Patty - I've yet to have anyone show to me a sp2 feature that I can't
>>>> live without.
>>
>> "luminos" > writes:
>>>That is because the features are not visible.
>>
>> But we have seen multiple posters here swearing that they have
>> personally witnessed that SP2 is the greatest advance in computing
>> since the invention of one and zero.
>>
>> Actually I'd like to see what it is that they have seen.

>Sigh. Seen?

Yes, Seen. You can scan the postings as well as I if you like.
There have been postings from people claiming how fantastically
great the new SP2 is. I think I'm looking at the same SP2 that
they are. There are (almost certainly) completely invisible fixes
for a thousand or more bugs. A few defaults have changed values.
Support for a few things is now integrated, rather than mfgr add-on.
A few features now require extra steps to get it to do what it was
doing before. But I have not Seen anything I can imagine that
these people posting claims about how great it is must have Seen.
Unless, of course, they are just operating with their own agenda.

[Testy]

Who would pay them many of them are useless anyway.

Testy

"John R. Sellers" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message
> ...
>> They also do not have any obligation to promote any Microsoft product
>> or patch.
>
> So I guess all the MVPs in here get paid to do this?
>
>

[Tom]

Not true, MVPs get perks from MS, like free (expensive) software. There =
is an incentive, and I don't think any one MVP here is altruistic enough =
to turn down anything from MS, in lieu of voluntary services given.

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message =
...
> MVPs do not get paid.
> Everything an MVP does is completely voluntary:
> =
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=3Dfh;EN-US;mvpfaqs&sty=
le=3Dflat
>=20
> --=20
> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/
>=20
>=20
> "John R. Sellers" > wrote in message=20
> news:Tf-dnah0O9iSAsrcRVn-> So I guess all the MVPs in here get paid to =

> do this?=20
>=20
>

[Tom]

After reading your posts in this thread, it is clear you want to find =
the wrong answers of others in attempts to convince yourself what you =
"DON'T" need. Do yourself a favor, don't install it, and be happy; no =
one here is going to make anymore than one attempt at convincing someone =
who will argue against all possible reasoning, as to the reasons why =
they "DON'T" need something.

"Mary Alice" > wrote in message =
...
> Preparation my Axx!!
>=20
> If a user had taken Microsoft's lying word and turned on Automatic =
Updates
> when it first became available, trusted his computer updates to them, =
as the
> Automatic Update implies, they would have NO idea that preparation, of =
any
> sort/kind, was not only recommended but demanded prior to sp2 install.
>=20
> --=20
>=20
> "Rock" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Patty wrote:
>>
>> > After reading so many horror stories about SP2 in these newsgroups, =
I'm
> kind
>> > of sceptical about downloading it. Is it truly necessary to =
download it
> or
>> > am I safe as long as I have SP1 and keep my Windows Updates - =
Updated??
>> > Is there any necessary steps that should be taken before SP2 is
> downloaded??
>> > Such as, turning off your AV program or Firewall? Any help here =
would
> be
>> > appreciated. Patty
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Preparation is the key to a successful upgrade, Patty. =
Notwithstanding
>> the problems posted to this group, the upgrade goes fine for the vast
>> majority of users. Backup your system before hand, which is =
something
>> you should be doing all the time, anyway. If something goes wrong =
sp2
>> can be easily uninstalled, and we are here to help if you have =
questions
>> and/or issues. Don't be afraid of something just based on the words =
of
>> some vocal nay sayers.
>>
>> Installing Service Packs
>> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/xpsp2.htm
>> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/spackins.htm
>>
>> Pre-Install, Install, Cleaning Up Afterwards
>> http://forum.aumha.org/viewforum.php?f=3D45
>>
>> What to Know Before You Download and Install Windows XP Service Pack =
2
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/sp2_whattoknow.mspx
>>
>> Get the Latest Updates and Information from Your PC Manufacturer =
Before
>> Installing Windows XP Service Pack 2
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/oemlinks.mspx
>>
>> The hard disk space requirements for Windows XP Service Pack 2
>> http://support.microsoft.com/?id=3D837783
>>
>> Changes to Functionality in Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2
>>
> =
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/sp2chngs.m=
spx
>>
>> Windows XP Service Pack 2: What's New for Internet Explorer and =
Outlook
>> Express
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/ieoeoverview.mspx
>>
>=20
>

[Alex Nichol]

Ken Blake wrote:

>
>With SP2, you're dealing mostly with fixes and security issues.

The one that gets overlooked often is the way it has gone through and
replaced all the many modules that are capable of having 'buffer
over-runs' with ones that have this prevented. That is the major reason
it is so big. And these over-runs have been central to very many of the
vulnerabilities that have then had individual patches. So without in
any way saying it has proofed the system against future attacks, it has
certainly plugged many places that might be picked up to attack non-SP2
systems


--
Alex Nichol MS MVP (Windows Technologies)
Bournemouth, U.K. (remove the D8 bit)

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Tom;
"perks" is not the same as "paid"
Get a dictionary and learn the difference.
If you are "paid" there is also an obligation.
The thank-you gift comes with no obligation or strings attached.
It is also for the year past with no obligation for the future.
You should really read the link I gave in my last post.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Tom" > wrote in message
...
Not true, MVPs get perks from MS, like free (expensive) software.
There is an incentive, and I don't think any one MVP here is
altruistic enough to turn down anything from MS, in lieu of voluntary
services given.

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message
...
> MVPs do not get paid.
> Everything an MVP does is completely voluntary:
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;EN-US;mvpfaqs&style=flat
>
> --
> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/
>
>
> "John R. Sellers" > wrote in message
> news:Tf-dnah0O9iSAsrcRVn-> So I guess all the MVPs in here get paid
> to
> do this?

[John R. Sellers]

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message
...
> That is an interesting place to get WRONG information.

So tell us, then, why ya'll are ramming an apparently FUBAR service pack
down our throats?

[John R. Sellers]

"Tom" > wrote in message
...
Not true, MVPs get perks from MS, like free (expensive) software. There is
an incentive, and I don't think any one MVP here is altruistic enough to
turn down anything from MS, in lieu of voluntary services given.

So they get free what we pay for. Oh yeah, that's fair.

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

If "ramming an apparently FUBAR service pack down our throats?" blame
that on the person between the keyboard and chair on your computer.
That is where the power of installation lies.

As far as "FUBAR" that is a matter of opinion and largely the health
of the computer before starting, again the person between the keyboard
and chair.
Blame that person if SP-2 is installed and you do not want it.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"John R. Sellers" > wrote in message
...
> So tell us, then, why ya'll are ramming an apparently FUBAR service
> pack
> down our throats?
>
>
>

[Tom]

I never said you, or any MVP got paid. I simply countered the difference =
in getting perks for being MS MVPs. Learn the difference in =
argumentation! If you had read (again, this is why top posting if =
frowned upon), I replied to John, and not you.

Your reference to me needing a dictionary shows kind of person you are =
(just using your example as you do like a mantra when someone makes =
similar comments to you).

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message =
...
> Tom;
> "perks" is not the same as "paid"
> Get a dictionary and learn the difference.
> If you are "paid" there is also an obligation.
> The thank-you gift comes with no obligation or strings attached.
> It is also for the year past with no obligation for the future.
> You should really read the link I gave in my last post.
>=20
> --=20
> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/
>=20
>=20
> "Tom" > wrote in message=20
> ...
> Not true, MVPs get perks from MS, like free (expensive) software.=20
> There is an incentive, and I don't think any one MVP here is=20
> altruistic enough to turn down anything from MS, in lieu of voluntary=20
> services given.
>=20
> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message=20
> ...
>> MVPs do not get paid.
>> Everything an MVP does is completely voluntary:
>> =
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=3Dfh;EN-US;mvpfaqs&sty=
le=3Dflat
>>
>> --=20
>> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
>> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/
>>
>>
>> "John R. Sellers" > wrote in message
>> news:Tf-dnah0O9iSAsrcRVn-> So I guess all the MVPs in here get paid=20
>> to
>> do this?=20
>=20
>

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Tom;
You may be replying to John, but you replied to my post.
Top or bottom posting will not change the post you reply.
You apparently selected the wrong post.
Look at the threading, still on this very post.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Tom" > wrote in message
...
I never said you, or any MVP got paid. I simply countered the
difference in getting perks for being MS MVPs. Learn the difference in
argumentation! If you had read (again, this is why top posting if
frowned upon), I replied to John, and not you.

Your reference to me needing a dictionary shows kind of person you are
(just using your example as you do like a mantra when someone makes
similar comments to you).

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message
...
> Tom;
> "perks" is not the same as "paid"
> Get a dictionary and learn the difference.
> If you are "paid" there is also an obligation.
> The thank-you gift comes with no obligation or strings attached.
> It is also for the year past with no obligation for the future.
> You should really read the link I gave in my last post.
>
> --
> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/
>
>
> "Tom" > wrote in message
> ...
> Not true, MVPs get perks from MS, like free (expensive) software.
> There is an incentive, and I don't think any one MVP here is
> altruistic enough to turn down anything from MS, in lieu of
> voluntary
> services given.
>
> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message
> ...
>> MVPs do not get paid.
>> Everything an MVP does is completely voluntary:
>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;EN-US;mvpfaqs&style=flat
>>
>> --
>> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
>> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/
>>
>>
>> "John R. Sellers" > wrote in message
>> news:Tf-dnah0O9iSAsrcRVn-> So I guess all the MVPs in here get paid
>> to
>> do this?
>
>

[Tom]

Then learn the difference between perks and paid (as you stated to me, =
and the fact that you could reason that my previous post would not have =
pertained to yours. Your ad-hominem still shows your character!

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message =
...
> Tom;
> You may be replying to John, but you replied to my post.
> Top or bottom posting will not change the post you reply.
> You apparently selected the wrong post.
> Look at the threading, still on this very post.
>=20
> --=20
> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/
>=20
>=20
> "Tom" > wrote in message=20
> ...
> I never said you, or any MVP got paid. I simply countered the=20
> difference in getting perks for being MS MVPs. Learn the difference in =

> argumentation! If you had read (again, this is why top posting if=20
> frowned upon), I replied to John, and not you.
>=20
> Your reference to me needing a dictionary shows kind of person you are =

> (just using your example as you do like a mantra when someone makes=20
> similar comments to you).
>=20
> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message=20
> ...
>> Tom;
>> "perks" is not the same as "paid"
>> Get a dictionary and learn the difference.
>> If you are "paid" there is also an obligation.
>> The thank-you gift comes with no obligation or strings attached.
>> It is also for the year past with no obligation for the future.
>> You should really read the link I gave in my last post.
>>
>> --=20
>> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
>> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/
>>
>>
>> "Tom" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> Not true, MVPs get perks from MS, like free (expensive) software.
>> There is an incentive, and I don't think any one MVP here is
>> altruistic enough to turn down anything from MS, in lieu of=20
>> voluntary
>> services given.
>>
>> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> MVPs do not get paid.
>>> Everything an MVP does is completely voluntary:
>>> =
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=3Dfh;EN-US;mvpfaqs&sty=
le=3Dflat
>>>
>>> --=20
>>> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
>>> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/
>>>
>>>
>>> "John R. Sellers" > wrote in message
>>> news:Tf-dnah0O9iSAsrcRVn-> So I guess all the MVPs in here get paid
>>> to
>>> do this?
>>
>>=20
>=20
>

[Ken Blake]

In ,
John R. Sellers > typed:

> "Ken Blake" > wrote in message
>
>> With SP2, you're dealing mostly with fixes and security
>> issues.
>> Think of it like the seatbelts or airbag in your car. Do you
>> want
>> to say that you don't "need" a seatbelt or an airbag?
>
> Lemme tell you what I told Alex: I get the feeling you're
> saying this
> because you work for them.


Nope, I don't work for Microsoft, or anyone else. I've been
retired for almost twelve years. The MVP title is an award for
providing accurate answers on the newsgroups. MVPs are
volunteers, not Microsoft employees.

I say what I believe to be correct, regardless of what Microsoft
says. In some cases, it's the same as what Microsoft says, in
others it's not. As a single example, I've several times said
here that I think WordPerfect is a better word processor than
Microsoft Word.


> As I said B4, I have ZoneAlarm, I have
> AVG, I have DCOMbobulator, and every check I do @ GRCs 'Sheilds
> Up'
> gets a passing grade
> of TruStealth.


Glad to hear it.


> Why would I need it?


Because it contains bug fixes over and above the more
highly-publicized new features. And because there is no downside
to installing it.

But I won't argue with you about it. It's your computer, and you
are free to install or not install whatever you want.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

I could not tell you were not replying to me since you posted
incorrectly.
It seemed as you had replied to me until you said otherwise.
Nothing in that post suggested you were not replying to me.

As for the difference, I know the difference, after all I said you
were wrong when it seemed like you were equating perks and paid.

You may need to read the ENTIRE thread again.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Tom" > wrote in message
...
Then learn the difference between perks and paid (as you stated to me,
and the fact that you could reason that my previous post would not
have pertained to yours. Your ad-hominem still shows your character!

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message
...
> Tom;
> You may be replying to John, but you replied to my post.
> Top or bottom posting will not change the post you reply.
> You apparently selected the wrong post.
> Look at the threading, still on this very post.
>
> --
> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/
>
>
> "Tom" > wrote in message
> ...
> I never said you, or any MVP got paid. I simply countered the
> difference in getting perks for being MS MVPs. Learn the difference
> in
> argumentation! If you had read (again, this is why top posting if
> frowned upon), I replied to John, and not you.
>
> Your reference to me needing a dictionary shows kind of person you
> are
> (just using your example as you do like a mantra when someone makes
> similar comments to you).
>
> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Tom;
>> "perks" is not the same as "paid"
>> Get a dictionary and learn the difference.
>> If you are "paid" there is also an obligation.
>> The thank-you gift comes with no obligation or strings attached.
>> It is also for the year past with no obligation for the future.
>> You should really read the link I gave in my last post.
>>
>> --
>> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
>> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/
>>
>>
>> "Tom" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> Not true, MVPs get perks from MS, like free (expensive) software.
>> There is an incentive, and I don't think any one MVP here is
>> altruistic enough to turn down anything from MS, in lieu of
>> voluntary
>> services given.
>>
>> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in
>> message
>> ...
>>> MVPs do not get paid.
>>> Everything an MVP does is completely voluntary:
>>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;EN-US;mvpfaqs&style=flat
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
>>> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/
>>>
>>>
>>> "John R. Sellers" > wrote in message
>>> news:Tf-dnah0O9iSAsrcRVn-> So I guess all the MVPs in here get
>>> paid
>>> to
>>> do this?
>>
>>
>
>

[John R. Sellers]

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message
...

> Blame that person if SP-2 is installed and you do not want it.

Why would I blame myself for choosing not to install a package that I do not
have a need for.

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Read my post again.
Do not miss "if SP-2 is installed"


--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"John R. Sellers" > wrote in message
news:_IqdnW7jGuaIEMXcRVn-> Why would I blame myself for choosing not
to install a package that I do not
> have a need for.

[John R. Sellers]

"Ken Blake" > wrote in message
...

> I say what I believe to be correct, regardless of what Microsoft
> says. In some cases, it's the same as what Microsoft says, in
> others it's not. As a single example, I've several times said
> here that I think WordPerfect is a better word processor than
> Microsoft Word.


[snip]

> But I won't argue with you about it. It's your computer, and you
> are free to install or not install whatever you want.

I'll admit, you sound better than Jones on this. I get the impression that
he feels he has a need to be right.

[Ron Bogart]

In ,
John R. Sellers > gathered his thoughts and came up
with these words:
> "Tom" > wrote in message
> ...
> Not true, MVPs get perks from MS, like free (expensive) software.
> There is an incentive, and I don't think any one MVP here is
> altruistic enough to turn down anything from MS, in lieu of voluntary
> services given.
>
> So they get free what we pay for. Oh yeah, that's fair.

If you weren't so danged ready to try and point fingers, maybe you could
count the number of posts by these terrible people who spend an enormous
amount of their free time trying to help people with the problems. For the
life of me, I don't know why some of them do it and have to deal with the
ignorant few who are always trying to drag them through the mud.

--
Ron Bogart {} ô¿ô¬
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
"Life is what happens while we are making other plans."

[John R. Sellers]

"Ron Bogart" > wrote in message
...

> If you weren't so danged ready to try and point fingers, maybe you could
> count the number of posts by these terrible people who spend an enormous
> amount of their free time trying to help people with the problems. For
the
> life of me, I don't know why some of them do it and have to deal with the
> ignorant few who are always trying to drag them through the mud.

I'm not trying to drag anybody down, I simply wanna know why the MVPs in
here get free software worth hundreds of dollars just for answering a few
questions, and the rest of us have to shell out our hard-earned money for
the same software.

[Alex Nichol]

Ron Bogart wrote:

>If you weren't so danged ready to try and point fingers, maybe you could
>count the number of posts by these terrible people who spend an enormous
>amount of their free time trying to help people with the problems. For the
>life of me, I don't know why some of them do it and have to deal with the
>ignorant few who are always trying to drag them through the mud.

I have said before, but will repeat. If I set what I receive from
Microsoft against what would be a reasonable charge for what I do at
consultancy rates, the term "peanuts" comes to mind


--
Alex Nichol MS MVP (Windows Technologies)
Bournemouth, U.K. (remove the D8 bit)

[Torgeir Bakken \(MVP\)]

John R. Sellers wrote:

> I'm not trying to drag anybody down, I simply wanna know why
> the MVPs in here get free software worth hundreds of dollars
> just for answering a few questions,

It's more than a few, here is a couple of Google newsgroup searches
for past year activity for:

Torgeir Bakken, involved in about 16,200 threads
http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=UTF-8&as_ugroup=microsoft.public.*&as_uauthors=torgeir%20bakken&as_drrb=q&as_qdr=y&as_scoring=d&lr=&hl=en

Alex Nichol, involved in about 23,900 threads
http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=UTF-8&as_ugroup=microsoft.public.*&as_uauthors=Alex%20Nichol&as_drrb=q&as_qdr=y&as_scoring=d&lr=&hl=en

Jupiter Jones, involved in about 23,800 threads
http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=UTF-8&as_ugroup=microsoft.public.*&as_uauthors=Jupiter%20Jones%20%20%5BMVP%5D&as_drrb=q&as_qdr=y&as_scoring=d&lr=&hl=en


> and the rest of us have to shell out our hard-earned money for
> the same software.

Actually, strictly speaking, it is not the same software. MSDN software
is for development, test, and demonstration purposes only, you are not
supposed to use the software for day-to-day operations (personal or
general business use). The only exception from the rule is Microsoft
Office.

More here:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/faq/default.aspx#licensing


--
torgeir, Microsoft MVP Scripting and WMI, Porsgrunn Norway
Administration scripting examples and an ONLINE version of
the 1328 page Scripting Guide:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter/default.mspx

[Patty]

OMG......boy did we get off the topic!!! I just have one more question
before I DO install SP2. Is it going to mess up my wireless network?? I
finally got my computer cleaned from that MidAdle and Peper Trojan. I am
going to go take care of all the necessary steps before installing it but
being that I am hooked up via Verizon DSL modem connected to a microsoft
wireless router with 2 X box live adapters and a LynkSys adapter, I want to
make sure I will be able to get on-line once i install it. Is there any
precautions I should take regarding my connection?? Thanx again......Patty
"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message
...
> Definitely resolve all issues first.
> Pre-existing problems known and unknown cause a lot of SP-2 issues.
>
> --
> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/
>
>
> "jt3" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I haven't installed SP2 yet, but it is only because I'm still
> > fighting
> > problems with the CPU on my new machine, and it's usually sound
> > advice to
> > avoid complication where a problem already exists. I plan to,
> > however, when
> > the problem is resolved--a large number of the fixes involved help
> > cut down
> > on further attacks on everyone else's machine, so one does it at
> > least
> > partly as a responsibility, seems to me.
>
>

[R. McCarty]

Quite the contrary - Service Pack has better/easier support for Wireless
Networks. You'll find a new dedicated Wireless setup applet in Control
Panel.

"Patty" > wrote in message
...
> OMG......boy did we get off the topic!!! I just have one more question
> before I DO install SP2. Is it going to mess up my wireless network?? I
> finally got my computer cleaned from that MidAdle and Peper Trojan. I am
> going to go take care of all the necessary steps before installing it but
> being that I am hooked up via Verizon DSL modem connected to a microsoft
> wireless router with 2 X box live adapters and a LynkSys adapter, I want
> to
> make sure I will be able to get on-line once i install it. Is there any
> precautions I should take regarding my connection?? Thanx
> again......Patty
> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Definitely resolve all issues first.
>> Pre-existing problems known and unknown cause a lot of SP-2 issues.
>>
>> --
>> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
>> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/
>>
>>
>> "jt3" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > I haven't installed SP2 yet, but it is only because I'm still
>> > fighting
>> > problems with the CPU on my new machine, and it's usually sound
>> > advice to
>> > avoid complication where a problem already exists. I plan to,
>> > however, when
>> > the problem is resolved--a large number of the fixes involved help
>> > cut down
>> > on further attacks on everyone else's machine, so one does it at
>> > least
>> > partly as a responsibility, seems to me.
>>
>>
>
>

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

John;
To add a little to what Torgeir stated.
Many MVPs, myself included, use the software in direct support of the
volunteering we do here and other forums.
There is no requirement at all from Microsoft to do such.
But having the additional software often gives us an opportunity to
test for a problem on a combination otherwise unavailable.
In my case some is on removable hard drives I pull out specifically
for that purpose.
So you might say that because of that I have additional costs to
maintain the additional hardware I otherwise would not have.
No one helped me at all with the additional hardware.

People volunteer on these newsgroups and other forums.
Microsoft thanks some people with software.
The software often comes back in direct support of the people here.
It seems everyone benefits.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"John R. Sellers" > wrote in message
news:G6WdnX3EZJTDdsXcRVn-> I'm not trying to drag anybody down, I
simply wanna know why the MVPs in
> here get free software worth hundreds of dollars just for answering
> a few
> questions, and the rest of us have to shell out our hard-earned
> money for
> the same software.