Fearful of SP2 [Archive]

Amy

October 3rd 04, 04:10 PM

>-----Original Message-----
>I have automatic updates turned on but not automatic
install. So SP2
>downloaded but is not installed yet, even though it
keeps wanting to
>be installed - I just x out.
>
>Have been advised not to install it because of al the
problems, so I
>don't want it on my system yet. Question - I don't know
how to get
>rid of it so it doesn't keep asking to be installed.
>
>Any suggestions for getting the unistalled download off
my computer
>without harming other Windows components?
>
>Thanks for any suggestions.
>
>Cheers,
> Ann
>
>To email: replace 'REMOVE' with 'b' in email address.
>.
>Hi. I had a bad experience with sp2. Did have to
unistall through add/remove programs but didn't take care
of it all. If you did not run the sp2 and just loaded it
on desktop, delete it. And/or go to
Start,Settings,control panel,System,Automatic Updates,
and select the option to "download updates but let me
decide what to install" (that isn't exactly what it
says) when it comes up again click not to be reminded of
this update if it wants you to install SP again.

Wesley Vogel

October 3rd 04, 04:16 PM

SP2 what to remove to not install
http://v5.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/v5consumer/showarticle.aspx?articleid=11&ln=en

Delete: DataStore & Download

C:\WINDOWS\SoftwareDistribution\DataStore
C:\WINDOWS\SoftwareDistribution\Download
-----

Temporarily Disabling Delivery of Windows XP Service Pack 2 Through Windows
Update and Automatic Updates
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/sp2aumng.mspx

Toolkit to Temporarily Block Delivery of Windows XP SP2 to a PC Through
Automatic Updates and Windows
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=8BCE6BBA-EA5D-4425-89C1-C1CB1CCD463C&displaylang=en

FAQ Temporarily Blocking Windows XP SP2 delivery through Windows Update and
Automatic Updates
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/sp2aumngfaq.mspx

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.
Wes

In ,
Ann B. > hunted and pecked:
> I have automatic updates turned on but not automatic install. So SP2
> downloaded but is not installed yet, even though it keeps wanting to
> be installed - I just x out.
>
> Have been advised not to install it because of al the problems, so I
> don't want it on my system yet. Question - I don't know how to get
> rid of it so it doesn't keep asking to be installed.
>
> Any suggestions for getting the unistalled download off my computer
> without harming other Windows components?
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.
>
> Cheers,
> Ann
>
> To email: replace 'REMOVE' with 'b' in email address.

Paul Smith

October 3rd 04, 05:05 PM

"Ann B." > wrote in message
...

> Any suggestions for getting the unistalled download off my computer
> without harming other Windows components?
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.

Service Pack 2 has now probably been installed millions of computers (if not
tens of millions), most (99%) without problem.

Unless you're aware of a specific problem with software you use you should
install it.

--
Paul Smith,
Yeovil, UK.
http://windows.dasmirnov.net/ Windows XP Resource Site.

*Replace nospam with smirnov to reply by e-mail*

Testy

October 3rd 04, 05:15 PM

Stop making things up! What is your reliable source for your 99% lie.

Testy

"Paul Smith" > wrote in message
...
> "Ann B." > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Any suggestions for getting the unistalled download off my computer
>> without harming other Windows components?
>>
>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>
>
> Service Pack 2 has now probably been installed millions of computers (if
> not tens of millions), most (99%) without problem.
>
> Unless you're aware of a specific problem with software you use you should
> install it.
>
> --
> Paul Smith,
> Yeovil, UK.
> http://windows.dasmirnov.net/ Windows XP Resource Site.
>
> *Replace nospam with smirnov to reply by e-mail*
>
>

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.772 / Virus Database: 519 - Release Date: 10/1/2004

Ann B.

October 3rd 04, 05:36 PM

On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 17:05:47 +0100, "Paul Smith"
> wrote:

>"Ann B." > wrote in message
...
>
>> Any suggestions for getting the unistalled download off my computer
>> without harming other Windows components?
>>
>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>
>
>Service Pack 2 has now probably been installed millions of computers (if not
>tens of millions), most (99%) without problem.
>
>Unless you're aware of a specific problem with software you use you should
>install it.

I, along with all other members of the NYPC club, a prestigious
computer user group were advised by the club prisident not to install
SP2 until it is fleshed out as there are too many issues with it.
I've been a member of the club for 15 years and never saw such advice
given before, so I pay attention to it.

Since MS doesn't give live tech support for problems encountered when
you load their service packs, I am afraid to risk it. If my computer
starts limping, how am I supposed to get help to fix it?
Cheers,
Ann

To email: replace 'REMOVE' with 'b' in email address.

Paul Smith

October 3rd 04, 05:45 PM

"Testy" > wrote in message
...
> Stop making things up! What is your reliable source for your 99% lie.

My source is my own experience.

I provided recommendations and assisted in upgrading 372 machines on a
network with SP2 when Microsoft released the network install, not one
problem.

I've personally installed it on around 10 machines, then there's about 30 or
so more of my friend's machines again no issues.

So that's actually 100% so I am sorry for my mistake.

--
Paul Smith,
Yeovil, UK.
http://windows.dasmirnov.net/ Windows XP Resource Site.

*Replace nospam with smirnov to reply by e-mail*

Paul Smith

October 3rd 04, 05:53 PM

"Ann B." > wrote in message
...

> I, along with all other members of the NYPC club, a prestigious
> computer user group were advised by the club prisident not to install
> SP2 until it is fleshed out as there are too many issues with it.
> I've been a member of the club for 15 years and never saw such advice
> given before, so I pay attention to it.

Did he actually mention what the issues were with it? I've been running
SP2, way back when it was in beta for months now, it's the most widely
tested Microsoft product ever, all of the stuff gone on that I'm aware of is
the usual anti-Microsoft scare-mongering by the media.

The only "issues" I've come across is the firewall asking for permission for
say a game the first time you run it since SP2 to use a network, which is a
pain if the game is already running as you have to alt-tab out. Which is
perfectly work around-able and isn't really an issue at all as all firewalls
do this.

> Since MS doesn't give live tech support for problems encountered when
> you load their service packs, I am afraid to risk it. If my computer
> starts limping, how am I supposed to get help to fix it?

If you've got a proper retail boxed Microsoft product then live phone and
e-mail support is included with that. If you use OEM then it's down to the
vender.

Loads of people, myself including hang out night and day on these groups and
do nothing but provide support, feel free to use us if you've got any
issues.

SP2 is a "critical" update - the risks of not running it are far greater
then those of something going wrong when installing it.

This might be an interesting read
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/preinstall.mspx

--
Paul Smith,
Yeovil, UK.
http://windows.dasmirnov.net/ Windows XP Resource Site.

*Replace nospam with smirnov to reply by e-mail*

Ken Blake

October 3rd 04, 06:04 PM

In ,
Ann B. > typed:

> I, along with all other members of the NYPC club, a prestigious
> computer user group were advised by the club prisident not to
> install
> SP2 until it is fleshed out as there are too many issues with
> it.
> I've been a member of the club for 15 years and never saw such
> advice
> given before, so I pay attention to it.

The President of NYPC is an individual who, like other
individuals, has his own opinions. Undoubtedly he's human like
the rest of us, so some of his opinions are right and some of
them are wrong. Opinions should be evaluated on the basis of
their merit, not on who holds the opinions.

Until three months when my term expired, I too was President of
one of the larger PC User Groups in the USA. My advice is the
opposite of his: most people *should* install SP2.

But much more important than who is President of what, or who
makes any recommendation, is what's behind the recommendation.
I've personally installed SP2 on many machines and I've spoken
with many others who have done the same, or installed it on their
own machines. I've never seen a problem with it, and with very
rare exceptions, none of the others has either.

Whenever a new version of *anything* comes out, you always read
about people having problems." But realize two things:

1. If you're reading about problems *in the newsgroup*, this is
where people come with their problems, not with their successes.
You get a very distorted view of what's going on in the real
world here; as someone once said, "hang around a transmission
shop and you will think that all cars have transmission
problems."

2. Most problems, by far, that people report--whether or not they
are SP2-related--have nothing to do with defects in the software.
They result from people's ignorance, from bad or inadequate
hardware, from old drivers, from viruses, from spyware, and so
on. And except for very rare situations, they always get a fix
for their problems, and in most cases, that fix is a very simple
one to implement.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup

Ann B.

October 3rd 04, 06:07 PM

On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 17:53:37 +0100, "Paul Smith"
> wrote:

>"Ann B." > wrote in message
...
>
>> I, along with all other members of the NYPC club, a prestigious
>> computer user group were advised by the club prisident not to install
>> SP2 until it is fleshed out as there are too many issues with it.
>> I've been a member of the club for 15 years and never saw such advice
>> given before, so I pay attention to it.
>
>Did he actually mention what the issues were with it? I've been running
>SP2, way back when it was in beta for months now, it's the most widely
>tested Microsoft product ever, all of the stuff gone on that I'm aware of is
>the usual anti-Microsoft scare-mongering by the media.
>
>The only "issues" I've come across is the firewall asking for permission for
>say a game the first time you run it since SP2 to use a network, which is a
>pain if the game is already running as you have to alt-tab out. Which is
>perfectly work around-able and isn't really an issue at all as all firewalls
>do this.
>
>> Since MS doesn't give live tech support for problems encountered when
>> you load their service packs, I am afraid to risk it. If my computer
>> starts limping, how am I supposed to get help to fix it?
>
>If you've got a proper retail boxed Microsoft product then live phone and
>e-mail support is included with that. If you use OEM then it's down to the
>vender.
>
>Loads of people, myself including hang out night and day on these groups and
>do nothing but provide support, feel free to use us if you've got any
>issues.
>
>SP2 is a "critical" update - the risks of not running it are far greater
>then those of something going wrong when installing it.
>
>This might be an interesting read
>http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/preinstall.mspx

Thanks, Paul. They didn't say whatthe specific issues were, just that
there were many. Again, they are are very reputable and esteemed
among software/ hardware vendors in the US. So of course I'm wary
about installing. Questions:
1) If I already run a firewall (ZoneAlarm) that works well, what will
SP2 give me in addition?
2) Will I need to remove ZA?
3) Will I need to re-enter all the web addresses that I want to pass
through the SP2 fire wall? (already stored in ZA)
4) I don't use MS Outlook for email. I assume lots of code in SP2 is
designed to protect Outlook. If I don't use it, do I still gain any
benefit?

Thanks much for your advice.
Cheers,
Ann

To email: replace 'REMOVE' with 'b' in email address.

Ann B.

October 3rd 04, 06:18 PM

On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 10:04:55 -0700, "Ken Blake"
> wrote:

>In ,
>Ann B. > typed:
>
>> I, along with all other members of the NYPC club, a prestigious
>> computer user group were advised by the club prisident not to
>> install
>> SP2 until it is fleshed out as there are too many issues with
>> it.
>> I've been a member of the club for 15 years and never saw such
>> advice
>> given before, so I pay attention to it.
>
>
>The President of NYPC is an individual who, like other
>individuals, has his own opinions. Undoubtedly he's human like
>the rest of us, so some of his opinions are right and some of
>them are wrong. Opinions should be evaluated on the basis of
>their merit, not on who holds the opinions.
>
>Until three months when my term expired, I too was President of
>one of the larger PC User Groups in the USA. My advice is the
>opposite of his: most people *should* install SP2.
>
>But much more important than who is President of what, or who
>makes any recommendation, is what's behind the recommendation.
>I've personally installed SP2 on many machines and I've spoken
>with many others who have done the same, or installed it on their
>own machines. I've never seen a problem with it, and with very
>rare exceptions, none of the others has either.
>
>Whenever a new version of *anything* comes out, you always read
>about people having problems." But realize two things:
>
>1. If you're reading about problems *in the newsgroup*, this is
>where people come with their problems, not with their successes.
>You get a very distorted view of what's going on in the real
>world here; as someone once said, "hang around a transmission
>shop and you will think that all cars have transmission
>problems."
>
True, but something can be inferred from the number of postings
complaining of problems. There have been many more regarding SP2 than
I'm awaree of with other products. You can't just disregard these
complaints because they're in a newsgroup. Also, complaints about
this SP have appearing in other sources as well: newspapers,
technical papers, magazines, and word of mouth. So whereas there
probably are many installations without problems, it sounds to me like
there are also many with such problems. I just want to be sure what
I'm doing before I wind up spending days trying to put my system back
together if something goes wrong. I've had these experiences in the
past and it's no fun!
>2. Most problems, by far, that people report--whether or not they
>are SP2-related--have nothing to do with defects in the software.
>They result from people's ignorance, from bad or inadequate
>hardware, from old drivers, from viruses, from spyware, and so
>on. And except for very rare situations, they always get a fix
>for their problems, and in most cases, that fix is a very simple
>one to implement.
Yes, but after how much trouble? I've had to scratch my PC in the
past and reload everything - a task that took 2 weeks to get to the
point I was before the problem. Don't want that to happen again if it
can be avoided.
Cheers,
Ann

To email: replace 'REMOVE' with 'b' in email address.

Testy

October 3rd 04, 06:19 PM

So you did make it up! My experience is totally the opposite with over 450
machines.

Testy

"Paul Smith" > wrote in message
...
> "Testy" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Stop making things up! What is your reliable source for your 99% lie.
>
> My source is my own experience.
>
> I provided recommendations and assisted in upgrading 372 machines on a
> network with SP2 when Microsoft released the network install, not one
> problem.
>
> I've personally installed it on around 10 machines, then there's about 30
> or so more of my friend's machines again no issues.
>
> So that's actually 100% so I am sorry for my mistake.
>
> --
> Paul Smith,
> Yeovil, UK.
> http://windows.dasmirnov.net/ Windows XP Resource Site.
>
> *Replace nospam with smirnov to reply by e-mail*
>
>

Paul Smith

October 3rd 04, 06:20 PM

"Ann B." > wrote in message
...

> Thanks, Paul. They didn't say whatthe specific issues were, just that
> there were many. Again, they are are very reputable and esteemed
> among software/ hardware vendors in the US. So of course I'm wary
> about installing. Questions:

> 1) If I already run a firewall (ZoneAlarm) that works well, what will
> SP2 give me in addition?

The Windows Firewall will protect the machine while it's booting too.

I did a preview of SP2 back in April, most of the core improvements are
there
http://windows.dasmirnov.net/articles/sp2preview.php but it does also have
preventatives to stop buffer-under-runs which is a common source of hacking
if you've got a CPU that supports it.

Many people have reported it being a lot "snappier" a little bit faster then
pre-SP2.

> 2) Will I need to remove ZA?

I'd recommend you disable while installing, and any anti-virus software and
that you're running the latest versions.

> 3) Will I need to re-enter all the web addresses that I want to pass
> through the SP2 fire wall? (already stored in ZA)

You can disable the Windows Firewall (it does still protect during boot) and
just use ZA as you were doing before.

> 4) I don't use MS Outlook for email. I assume lots of code in SP2 is
> designed to protect Outlook. If I don't use it, do I still gain any
> benefit?

The code (5 million odd lines have been updated so it is huge) is really to
protect the whole OS, OE now has a few extra settings, and it's bolted down
more securely. SP2 contains updates against the newly emerged problem in
GDI with handling JPEGs (a virus can be exed just by viewing a picture
pre-SP2 for example).

There's really way too much new stuff to list. 8-)

A few pages covering security and the new changes it from MS
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/topten.mspx
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/ieoeoverview.mspx

--
Paul Smith,
Yeovil, UK.
http://windows.dasmirnov.net/ Windows XP Resource Site.

*Replace nospam with smirnov to reply by e-mail*

Malke

October 3rd 04, 06:27 PM

Ann B. wrote:

> On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 17:05:47 +0100, "Paul Smith"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Ann B." > wrote in message
...
>>
>>> Any suggestions for getting the unistalled download off my computer
>>> without harming other Windows components?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>>
>>
>>Service Pack 2 has now probably been installed millions of computers
>>(if not tens of millions), most (99%) without problem.
>>
>>Unless you're aware of a specific problem with software you use you
>>should install it.
>
> I, along with all other members of the NYPC club, a prestigious
> computer user group were advised by the club prisident not to install
> SP2 until it is fleshed out as there are too many issues with it.
> I've been a member of the club for 15 years and never saw such advice
> given before, so I pay attention to it.

This is ridiculous advice. SP2 will not be "fleshed out". If proper
preparations are taken - which preparations should *always* be taken
when making *any* change relating to *any* operating system - there
should be no problem installing SP2. I've installed SP2 on close to 150
machines now (all varying mftrs., desktops and laptops) and have been
successful on all of them. Other regular posters have installed SP2 on
far more machines than I have. The key is proper preparation.
>
> Since MS doesn't give live tech support for problems encountered when
> you load their service packs, I am afraid to risk it. If my computer
> starts limping, how am I supposed to get help to fix it?

Actually, there is plenty of free support for SP2:

SP2 Support Center
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?&pr=windowsxpsp2

Visiting a Service Center to Get SP2
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/helpandsupport/ballew_04sept20.mspx

And of course, since you are a member of a computer club, you must know
how to research using the Internet. If your personal computer is an OEM
box, then your first step is the OEM's website. Additionally, here are
some links to help you with SP2:

Are You Ready for WinXP SP2?
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=windowsxpsp2

http://forum.aumha.org/index.php - See SP2 forums

http://www.michna.com/kb/WxSP2.htm and
http://www.michna.com/kb/WxSP2.htm#General

Order XPSP2 cd
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/updates/sp2/cdorder/en_us/default.mspx

For end users
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/default.mspx

More technical
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/winxpsp2.mspx

How to slipstream sp2 into XP
http://www.msfn.org/articles.php?action=show&showarticle=49
http://www.windows-help.net/windowsxp/winxp-sp2-bootcd.html

SP2 links to OEMs
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/oemlinks.mspx

Device drivers known to cause instability in Windows XP Service Pack 2
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=883775&product=windowsxpsp2

HTH,

Malke
--
MS MVP - Windows Shell/User
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"

Ken Blake

October 3rd 04, 06:31 PM

In ,
Ann B. > typed:

> Questions:
> 1) If I already run a firewall (ZoneAlarm) that works well,
> what will
> SP2 give me in addition?

Nothing. In fact ZA is the better firewall (since it monitors
outbound accesses, which the Windows firewall doesn't), and you
should continue using it and turn off the Windows firewall.

> 2) Will I need to remove ZA?

No. See above.

> 3) Will I need to re-enter all the web addresses that I want
> to pass
> through the SP2 fire wall? (already stored in ZA)

No. See above.

> 4) I don't use MS Outlook for email. I assume lots of code in
> SP2 is
> designed to protect Outlook. If I don't use it, do I still
> gain any
> benefit?

The are millions of lines of changed code in SP2. Only some those
fixes and improvements are oriented toward the highly-publicized
things--Security Center, firewall improvements, pop-up blocker,
etc. If you don't install it, you don't get the benefit of those
many changes.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup

Ken Blake

October 3rd 04, 06:38 PM

In ,
Ann B. > typed:

> On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 10:04:55 -0700, "Ken Blake"
> > wrote:

>>Whenever a new version of *anything* comes out, you always read
>>about people having problems." But realize two things:
>>
>>1. If you're reading about problems *in the newsgroup*, this is
>>where people come with their problems, not with their
>>successes.
>>You get a very distorted view of what's going on in the real
>>world here; as someone once said, "hang around a transmission
>>shop and you will think that all cars have transmission
>>problems."
>>
> True, but something can be inferred from the number of postings
> complaining of problems. There have been many more regarding
> SP2 than
> I'm awaree of with other products.

That's because it's new. Anything that's new results in people
not knowing how to use, making mistakes in its use, etc. You seem
the same kind of flurry of messages about everything new that
comes out; that doesn't mean it's no good.

> You can't just disregard these
> complaints because they're in a newsgroup. Also, complaints
> about
> this SP have appearing in other sources as well: newspapers,
> technical papers, magazines, and word of mouth.

Newspapers and magazines *love* to print complaints. That's how
they sell their products.

> So whereas there
> probably are many installations without problems, it sounds to
> me like
> there are also many with such problems. I just want to be sure
> what
> I'm doing before I wind up spending days trying to put my
> system back
> together if something goes wrong. I've had these experiences
> in the
> past and it's no fun!

Understood. And ultimately, no matter what I or anyone else,
says, it's your choice. I can't make you install it, nor do I
want to. I can only try to give you information that can help in
your decision.

>>2. Most problems, by far, that people report--whether or not
>>they
>>are SP2-related--have nothing to do with defects in the
>>software.
>>They result from people's ignorance, from bad or inadequate
>>hardware, from old drivers, from viruses, from spyware, and so
>>on. And except for very rare situations, they always get a fix
>>for their problems, and in most cases, that fix is a very
>>simple
>>one to implement.

> Yes, but after how much trouble?

Usually very little.

> I've had to scratch my PC in the
> past and reload everything - a task that took 2 weeks to get to
> the
> point I was before the problem. Don't want that to happen
> again if it
> can be avoided.

Again, understood. I, of course, can't make you any promises. All
I can say is that the risk of that occurring with SP2, if you
take the proper precautions before installing it, is extremely
slight.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup

Paul Smith

October 3rd 04, 06:40 PM

"Testy" > wrote in message
...
> So you did make it up! My experience is totally the opposite with over 450
> machines.

What problems did you have with it?

--
Paul Smith,
Yeovil, UK.
http://windows.dasmirnov.net/ Windows XP Resource Site.

*Replace nospam with smirnov to reply by e-mail*

Tony Parry

October 3rd 04, 06:48 PM

A fascinating read through this thread. I was a bit like Anne. Hesitant to
install SP2 but only because what I'd read on various NGs. I haven't
installed SP2 on hundreds of PCs like some of you,only on one. My own self
built PC. I realised I dont have anything like the problems others do with
their PCs ( not just SP2 related) not sure why that should be. Maybe because
its self built or maybe I keep it well maintained & free of "crap" for want
of a better word. So I went ahead & allowed Windows Update to install SP2. I
needn't have worried. It was quick via my broadband connection & went
without a hitch. I have a few niggles with my PC but I doubt they're SP2
related & in any case it doesn't prevent me using the PC as I did prior to
installing SP2. My advice to Anne is go ahead & install it. But it is your
choice.

Tony P
"Malke" > wrote in message
...
> Ann B. wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 17:05:47 +0100, "Paul Smith"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>"Ann B." > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>> Any suggestions for getting the unistalled download off my computer
>>>> without harming other Windows components?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>>>
>>>
>>>Service Pack 2 has now probably been installed millions of computers
>>>(if not tens of millions), most (99%) without problem.
>>>
>>>Unless you're aware of a specific problem with software you use you
>>>should install it.
>>
>> I, along with all other members of the NYPC club, a prestigious
>> computer user group were advised by the club prisident not to install
>> SP2 until it is fleshed out as there are too many issues with it.
>> I've been a member of the club for 15 years and never saw such advice
>> given before, so I pay attention to it.
>
> This is ridiculous advice. SP2 will not be "fleshed out". If proper
> preparations are taken - which preparations should *always* be taken
> when making *any* change relating to *any* operating system - there
> should be no problem installing SP2. I've installed SP2 on close to 150
> machines now (all varying mftrs., desktops and laptops) and have been
> successful on all of them. Other regular posters have installed SP2 on
> far more machines than I have. The key is proper preparation.
>>
>> Since MS doesn't give live tech support for problems encountered when
>> you load their service packs, I am afraid to risk it. If my computer
>> starts limping, how am I supposed to get help to fix it?
>
> Actually, there is plenty of free support for SP2:
>
> SP2 Support Center
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?&pr=windowsxpsp2
>
> Visiting a Service Center to Get SP2
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/helpandsupport/ballew_04sept20.mspx
>
> And of course, since you are a member of a computer club, you must know
> how to research using the Internet. If your personal computer is an OEM
> box, then your first step is the OEM's website. Additionally, here are
> some links to help you with SP2:
>
> Are You Ready for WinXP SP2?
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=windowsxpsp2
>
> http://forum.aumha.org/index.php - See SP2 forums
>
> http://www.michna.com/kb/WxSP2.htm and
> http://www.michna.com/kb/WxSP2.htm#General
>
> Order XPSP2 cd
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/updates/sp2/cdorder/en_us/default.mspx
>
> For end users
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/default.mspx
>
> More technical
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/winxpsp2.mspx
>
> How to slipstream sp2 into XP
> http://www.msfn.org/articles.php?action=show&showarticle=49
> http://www.windows-help.net/windowsxp/winxp-sp2-bootcd.html
>
> SP2 links to OEMs
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/oemlinks.mspx
>
> Device drivers known to cause instability in Windows XP Service Pack 2
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=883775&product=windowsxpsp2
>
> HTH,
>
> Malke
> --
> MS MVP - Windows Shell/User
> Elephant Boy Computers
> www.elephantboycomputers.com
> "Don't Panic!"

R. McCarty

October 3rd 04, 06:49 PM

90+, 100% success. All this fear, brings up an interesting point. It
exposes the vulnerability with PC users not having adequate backup.
If users would get an Imaging program and take 1-hour to backup
their PC and verify the image - There is virtually no risk in installing
SP2. The side benefit is that they will have protected their XP install
and personal data.
Instead of being fearful, be protected both by an Image and SP2.

"Paul Smith" > wrote in message
...
> "Testy" > wrote in message
> ...
>> So you did make it up! My experience is totally the opposite with over
>> 450 machines.
>
> What problems did you have with it?
>
> --
> Paul Smith,
> Yeovil, UK.
> http://windows.dasmirnov.net/ Windows XP Resource Site.
>
> *Replace nospam with smirnov to reply by e-mail*
>

Nobody

October 3rd 04, 06:57 PM

Just install it. You can't expect to continue using windows XP without
eventually upgrading. Any future updates will be based on having SP2
installed. Do it, it's painless.
Do not ask for email responses. Newsgroups are for everyone's benefit. A
answer to your question via email benefits no one but you and that's not
what newsgroups are about.

"Ann B." > wrote in message
...
I have automatic updates turned on but not automatic install. So SP2
downloaded but is not installed yet, even though it keeps wanting to
be installed - I just x out.

Have been advised not to install it because of al the problems, so I
don't want it on my system yet. Question - I don't know how to get
rid of it so it doesn't keep asking to be installed.

Any suggestions for getting the unistalled download off my computer
without harming other Windows components?

Thanks for any suggestions.

Cheers,
Ann

To email: replace 'REMOVE' with 'b' in email address.

Ann B.

October 3rd 04, 07:04 PM

Thanks Ken & Paul. The two of you have given me courage to go ahead
with the install. I've run disk clean-up, defragmented, and removed
unused programs. I'll turn off my anti-virus and ZA and keep my
fingers crossed!

Regards,
Ann

On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 10:31:34 -0700, "Ken Blake"
> wrote:

>In ,
>Ann B. > typed:
>
>> Questions:
>> 1) If I already run a firewall (ZoneAlarm) that works well,
>> what will
>> SP2 give me in addition?
>
>
>Nothing. In fact ZA is the better firewall (since it monitors
>outbound accesses, which the Windows firewall doesn't), and you
>should continue using it and turn off the Windows firewall.
>
>
>> 2) Will I need to remove ZA?
>
>
>No. See above.
>
>
>> 3) Will I need to re-enter all the web addresses that I want
>> to pass
>> through the SP2 fire wall? (already stored in ZA)
>
>
>No. See above.
>
>
>> 4) I don't use MS Outlook for email. I assume lots of code in
>> SP2 is
>> designed to protect Outlook. If I don't use it, do I still
>> gain any
>> benefit?
>
>
>The are millions of lines of changed code in SP2. Only some those
>fixes and improvements are oriented toward the highly-publicized
>things--Security Center, firewall improvements, pop-up blocker,
>etc. If you don't install it, you don't get the benefit of those
>many changes.

Cheers,
Ann

To email: replace 'REMOVE' with 'b' in email address.

Ron Bogart

October 3rd 04, 07:13 PM

In ,
Testy > gathered his thoughts and came up with
these words:
> So you did make it up! My experience is totally the opposite with
> over 450 machines.
>
> Testy

In looking back over the past two months, I see 135 posts from you with
possibly 10 of them actually giving some semblance of help. The rest are
nothing but childish drivel and BS. If you are not here to help or to gain
assistance - don't you have something better to do with your time?
You first mention having 200 clients then the number jumps a few days later
to 250 and now there are over 450 machines involved - don't they have
something for you to do or are they tired of your caustic & snide attitude
as well?

--
Ron Bogart {} ô¿ô¬
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
"Life is what happens while we are making other plans."

Ken Blake

October 3rd 04, 07:29 PM

In ,
Ann B. > typed:

> Thanks Ken & Paul. The two of you have given me courage to go
> ahead
> with the install.

You're welcome and good luck.

> I've run disk clean-up, defragmented, and removed
> unused programs.

Make sure you are spyware-free too.

> I'll turn off my anti-virus and ZA and keep my
> fingers crossed!

I don't know what kind of connection you have. Don't turn those
off unless you also disconnect from the internet.

And of course, now matter how reliable SP2 is, installing it is a
big step, and it's always possible that something can go wrong.
Before beginning, it's prudent to be sure you have a current
backup of anything you can't afford to lose.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup

> Regards,
> Ann
>
> On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 10:31:34 -0700, "Ken Blake"
> > wrote:
>
>>In ,
>>Ann B. > typed:
>>
>>> Questions:
>>> 1) If I already run a firewall (ZoneAlarm) that works well,
>>> what will
>>> SP2 give me in addition?
>>
>>
>>Nothing. In fact ZA is the better firewall (since it monitors
>>outbound accesses, which the Windows firewall doesn't), and you
>>should continue using it and turn off the Windows firewall.
>>
>>
>>> 2) Will I need to remove ZA?
>>
>>
>>No. See above.
>>
>>
>>> 3) Will I need to re-enter all the web addresses that I want
>>> to pass
>>> through the SP2 fire wall? (already stored in ZA)
>>
>>
>>No. See above.
>>
>>
>>> 4) I don't use MS Outlook for email. I assume lots of code
>>> in
>>> SP2 is
>>> designed to protect Outlook. If I don't use it, do I still
>>> gain any
>>> benefit?
>>
>>
>>The are millions of lines of changed code in SP2. Only some
>>those
>>fixes and improvements are oriented toward the
>>highly-publicized
>>things--Security Center, firewall improvements, pop-up blocker,
>>etc. If you don't install it, you don't get the benefit of
>>those
>>many changes.
>
> Cheers,
> Ann
>
> To email: replace 'REMOVE' with 'b' in email address.

Ann B.

October 3rd 04, 07:46 PM

Well, I installed it. Everything went fine, but IE is gone. The icon
my desktop is gone and I can't find the .exe. What to do?
Thanks for the help!

On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 11:29:37 -0700, "Ken Blake"
> wrote:

>In ,
>Ann B. > typed:
>
>> Thanks Ken & Paul. The two of you have given me courage to go
>> ahead
>> with the install.
>
>
>You're welcome and good luck.
>
>
>> I've run disk clean-up, defragmented, and removed
>> unused programs.
>
>
>Make sure you are spyware-free too.
>
>
>> I'll turn off my anti-virus and ZA and keep my
>> fingers crossed!
>
>
>I don't know what kind of connection you have. Don't turn those
>off unless you also disconnect from the internet.
>
>And of course, now matter how reliable SP2 is, installing it is a
>big step, and it's always possible that something can go wrong.
>Before beginning, it's prudent to be sure you have a current
>backup of anything you can't afford to lose.

Cheers,
Ann

To email: replace 'REMOVE' with 'b' in email address.

Don Taylor

October 3rd 04, 08:23 PM

"Paul Smith" > writes:

>"Ann B." > wrote in message
...

>> I, along with all other members of the NYPC club, a prestigious
>> computer user group were advised by the club prisident not to install
>> SP2 until it is fleshed out as there are too many issues with it.
>> I've been a member of the club for 15 years and never saw such advice
>> given before, so I pay attention to it.

>Did he actually mention what the issues were with it? I've been running
>SP2, way back when it was in beta for months now, it's the most widely
>tested Microsoft product ever, all of the stuff gone on that I'm aware of is
>the usual anti-Microsoft scare-mongering by the media.

>The only "issues" I've come across is the firewall asking for permission for
>say a game the first time you run it since SP2 to use a network, which is a
>pain if the game is already running as you have to alt-tab out. Which is
>perfectly work around-able and isn't really an issue at all as all firewalls
>do this.

>> Since MS doesn't give live tech support for problems encountered when
>> you load their service packs, I am afraid to risk it. If my computer
>> starts limping, how am I supposed to get help to fix it?

>If you've got a proper retail boxed Microsoft product then live phone and
>e-mail support is included with that. If you use OEM then it's down to the
>vender.

>Loads of people, myself including hang out night and day on these groups and
>do nothing but provide support, feel free to use us if you've got any
>issues.

Terrific! What is the fix for the continually reported "Windows
Explorer" problem, where clicks or right clicks or no clicks at all
cause it to crash?

A small number of people do discover that Divx was the fix, two
people have reported that thus far, a small number of people do
discover that shell extensions was the fix, again two people retorted
that thus far. Nobody seems to have reported that viruses or spyware
were found after discovering this problem.

Other than that people keep reporting the problem and nobody seems
to have any idea what the problem is or how to fix it.

>SP2 is a "critical" update - the risks of not running it are far greater
>then those of something going wrong when installing it.

>This might be an interesting read
>http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/preinstall.mspx

>--
>Paul Smith,
> Yeovil, UK.
>http://windows.dasmirnov.net/ Windows XP Resource Site.

>*Replace nospam with smirnov to reply by e-mail*

Mark Jones

October 3rd 04, 08:23 PM

"Paul Smith" > wrote in message
...
> "Ann B." > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Any suggestions for getting the unistalled download off my computer
> > without harming other Windows components?
> >
> > Thanks for any suggestions.
>
>
> Service Pack 2 has now probably been installed millions of computers (if
not
> tens of millions), most (99%) without problem.
>
> Unless you're aware of a specific problem with software you use you should
> install it.

I just did a system restore on the 3 week old computer that I installed
SP2 on. I restored it using the restore CD that came with the computer
because SP2 hosed this computer so bad.

I have been fighting with a multitude of problems for the last 2 weeks
because of the way SP2 messed things up. This service pack reminds
me of some beta testing of early versions of software that I have done.
It just does not have the stability that I would expect from software
released to the general public.

Mark Jones

October 3rd 04, 08:25 PM

"Paul Smith" > wrote in message
...
> "Testy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Stop making things up! What is your reliable source for your 99% lie.
>
> My source is my own experience.
My experience tells me 50%. Neither one of these numbers is accurate
for all installs.

Don Taylor

October 3rd 04, 08:26 PM

"Ken Blake" > writes:
>2. Most problems, by far, that people report--whether or not they
>are SP2-related--have nothing to do with defects in the software.
>They result from people's ignorance, from bad or inadequate
>hardware, from old drivers, from viruses, from spyware, and so
>on. And except for very rare situations, they always get a fix
>for their problems, and in most cases, that fix is a very simple
>one to implement.

please provide the very simple fix to the windows explorer crash problem

thank you

>--
>Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
>Please reply to the newsgroup

Don Taylor

October 3rd 04, 08:35 PM

"Ken Blake" > writes:
>In ,
>Ann B. > typed:
>> On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 10:04:55 -0700, "Ken Blake"
>> > wrote:
>>>Whenever a new version of *anything* comes out, you always read
>>>about people having problems." But realize two things:
>>>
>>>1. If you're reading about problems *in the newsgroup*, this is
>>>where people come with their problems, not with their
>>>successes.
>>>You get a very distorted view of what's going on in the real
>>>world here; as someone once said, "hang around a transmission
>>>shop and you will think that all cars have transmission
>>>problems."
>>>
>> True, but something can be inferred from the number of postings
>> complaining of problems. There have been many more regarding
>> SP2 than
>> I'm awaree of with other products.

>That's because it's new. Anything that's new results in people
>not knowing how to use, making mistakes in its use, etc. You seem
>the same kind of flurry of messages about everything new that
>comes out; that doesn't mean it's no good.

Through some incomprehensible error the file "Top 20 Questions, about
the SP2 you just installed, Answered!" got left out of the distribution.
That mistake caused far more grief and confusion and unsafe behavior
than was necessary.

>Again, understood. I, of course, can't make you any promises. All
>I can say is that the risk of that occurring with SP2, if you
>take the proper precautions before installing it, is extremely
>slight.

And that is a far more honest statement than many MVP here have said here.

>--
>Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
>Please reply to the newsgroup

Testy

October 3rd 04, 09:48 PM

Come back when you graduate from Associate Expert to Expert.

Testy

"Ron Bogart" > wrote in message
...
> In ,
> Testy > gathered his thoughts and came up with
> these words:
>> So you did make it up! My experience is totally the opposite with
>> over 450 machines.
>>
>> Testy
>
> In looking back over the past two months, I see 135 posts from you with
> possibly 10 of them actually giving some semblance of help. The rest are
> nothing but childish drivel and BS. If you are not here to help or to
> gain assistance - don't you have something better to do with your time?
> You first mention having 200 clients then the number jumps a few days
> later to 250 and now there are over 450 machines involved - don't they
> have something for you to do or are they tired of your caustic & snide
> attitude as well?
>
> --
> Ron Bogart {} ô¿ô¬
> Associate Expert
> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
> "Life is what happens while we are making other plans."
>

Testy

October 3rd 04, 09:50 PM

Many all have been fixed!

Testy

"Paul Smith" > wrote in message
...
> "Testy" > wrote in message
> ...
>> So you did make it up! My experience is totally the opposite with over
>> 450 machines.
>
> What problems did you have with it?
>
> --
> Paul Smith,
> Yeovil, UK.
> http://windows.dasmirnov.net/ Windows XP Resource Site.
>
> *Replace nospam with smirnov to reply by e-mail*
>

Testy

October 3rd 04, 09:53 PM

I am self-employed many of my clients are GROWING businesses.

Testy

"Ron Bogart" > wrote in message
...
> In ,
> Testy > gathered his thoughts and came up with
> these words:
>> So you did make it up! My experience is totally the opposite with
>> over 450 machines.
>>
>> Testy
>
> In looking back over the past two months, I see 135 posts from you with
> possibly 10 of them actually giving some semblance of help. The rest are
> nothing but childish drivel and BS. If you are not here to help or to
> gain assistance - don't you have something better to do with your time?
> You first mention having 200 clients then the number jumps a few days
> later to 250 and now there are over 450 machines involved - don't they
> have something for you to do or are they tired of your caustic & snide
> attitude as well?
>
> --
> Ron Bogart {} ô¿ô¬
> Associate Expert
> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
> "Life is what happens while we are making other plans."
>

Wesley Vogel

October 3rd 04, 10:36 PM

Right click Desktop | Properties | Desktop tab | Customize Desktop button |
Internet Explorer | OK | Apply | OK

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.
Wes

In ,
Ann B. > hunted and pecked:
> Well, I installed it. Everything went fine, but IE is gone. The icon
> my desktop is gone and I can't find the .exe. What to do?
> Thanks for the help!
>
>
> On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 11:29:37 -0700, "Ken Blake"
> > wrote:
>
>> In ,
>> Ann B. > typed:
>>
>>> Thanks Ken & Paul. The two of you have given me courage to go
>>> ahead
>>> with the install.
>>
>>
>> You're welcome and good luck.
>>
>>
>>> I've run disk clean-up, defragmented, and removed
>>> unused programs.
>>
>>
>> Make sure you are spyware-free too.
>>
>>
>>> I'll turn off my anti-virus and ZA and keep my
>>> fingers crossed!
>>
>>
>> I don't know what kind of connection you have. Don't turn those
>> off unless you also disconnect from the internet.
>>
>> And of course, now matter how reliable SP2 is, installing it is a
>> big step, and it's always possible that something can go wrong.
>> Before beginning, it's prudent to be sure you have a current
>> backup of anything you can't afford to lose.
>
> Cheers,
> Ann
>
> To email: replace 'REMOVE' with 'b' in email address.

Ron Bogart

October 3rd 04, 10:37 PM

In ,
Testy > gathered his thoughts and came up with
these words:
> Come back when you graduate from Associate Expert to Expert.
>
> Testy
>
> "Ron Bogart" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In ,
>> Testy > gathered his thoughts and came up
>> with these words:
>>> So you did make it up! My experience is totally the opposite with
>>> over 450 machines.
>>>
>>> Testy
>>
>> In looking back over the past two months, I see 135 posts from you
>> with possibly 10 of them actually giving some semblance of help. The rest
>> are nothing but childish drivel and BS. If you are not
>> here to help or to gain assistance - don't you have something better
>> to do with your time? You first mention having 200 clients then the
>> number jumps a few days later to 250 and now there are over 450
>> machines involved - don't they have something for you to do or are
>> they tired of your caustic & snide attitude as well?
>>
>> --
>> Ron Bogart {} ô¿ô¬
>> Associate Expert
>> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>> "Life is what happens while we are making other plans."

Still childish and useless - so long.

--
Ron Bogart {} ô¿ô¬
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
"Life is what happens while we are making other plans."

Testy

October 3rd 04, 10:58 PM

Correction, come back when you discover a sense of humor.

Testy

"Ron Bogart" > wrote in message
...
> In ,
> Testy > gathered his thoughts and came up with
> these words:
>> Come back when you graduate from Associate Expert to Expert.
>>
>> Testy
>>
>> "Ron Bogart" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> In ,
>>> Testy > gathered his thoughts and came up
>>> with these words:
>>>> So you did make it up! My experience is totally the opposite with
>>>> over 450 machines.
>>>>
>>>> Testy
>>>
>>> In looking back over the past two months, I see 135 posts from you
>>> with possibly 10 of them actually giving some semblance of help. The
>>> rest are nothing but childish drivel and BS. If you are not
>>> here to help or to gain assistance - don't you have something better
>>> to do with your time? You first mention having 200 clients then the
>>> number jumps a few days later to 250 and now there are over 450
>>> machines involved - don't they have something for you to do or are
>>> they tired of your caustic & snide attitude as well?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ron Bogart {} ô¿ô¬
>>> Associate Expert
>>> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>>> "Life is what happens while we are making other plans."
>
> Still childish and useless - so long.
>
> --
> Ron Bogart {} ô¿ô¬
> Associate Expert
> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
> "Life is what happens while we are making other plans."
>

Lee

October 4th 04, 03:50 AM

icky

October 14th 04, 02:06 AM

Ann B.,

I run WinXP on a Dell Latitude C-840. Installed SP2 about one month ago. The
only problem I have incurred is in Outlook. For some reason whenever I send
an email it stays in my Outbox for a while or until I open another email.
Seems kind of strange to me but that is my delima.

I don't know if it is an Exchange issue but this is the only problem I have
had with SP2. We have had some people complain about having problems with
Citrix since we installed SP2 but as of today I have not had any problems in
that area. Don't know if it is a local Citrix issue or a Citrix server issue

"Ann B." wrote:

> On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 17:05:47 +0100, "Paul Smith"
> > wrote:
>
> >"Ann B." > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >> Any suggestions for getting the unistalled download off my computer
> >> without harming other Windows components?
> >>
> >> Thanks for any suggestions.
> >
> >
> >Service Pack 2 has now probably been installed millions of computers (if not
> >tens of millions), most (99%) without problem.
> >
> >Unless you're aware of a specific problem with software you use you should
> >install it.
>
> I, along with all other members of the NYPC club, a prestigious
> computer user group were advised by the club prisident not to install
> SP2 until it is fleshed out as there are too many issues with it.
> I've been a member of the club for 15 years and never saw such advice
> given before, so I pay attention to it.
>
> Since MS doesn't give live tech support for problems encountered when
> you load their service packs, I am afraid to risk it. If my computer
> starts limping, how am I supposed to get help to fix it?
> Cheers,
> Ann
>
> To email: replace 'REMOVE' with 'b' in email address.
>