Losing Internet Connection on Home Network

[Atomic Rooster]

Since setting-up a home network over a year ago we have had intermittent
problems with the internet connection being lost from time to time.
Recently it seems to have got worse but it is not the NTL incoming supply as
I have proven this to be stable and never drops when only connected to one
PC and not into the router.
When the network is all connected and the drops the only way to get the
internet connection going again is to either reboot the router manually or
use Gear Minder Router Connection Manager to do a reboot without actually
having to unplug from the mains.
Once rebooted it might last 5 minutes or 5 hours before having to reboot
again.

Network:
Cable Set-top box
Netgear RP114 Router (latest firmware) 192.168.0.1, Default DMZ Server
192.168.0.50 (for Xbox) Firmware Version: V3.26(CD.0) | 8/17/2001
1 PC downstairs with Norton Antivirus 2003
Netgear Dual Hub DS104 (upstairs)
2 PC's upstairs with AVG Antivirus

PC's all running XP SP2 with XP firewall (same probs before SP2) also used
to have ZoneAlarm on all but same probs.
Note: When the internet drops I mean web browser, mail and MSN messenger. If
Kazaa Lite is (for example) connected at the time then this continues to
stay connected
and download files.

Ant help would be really appreciated as it is getting really annoying!

Thanks,
Darren

[Chuck]

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:15:02 GMT, "Atomic Rooster" <*email_address_deleted*>
wrote:

>Since setting-up a home network over a year ago we have had intermittent
>problems with the internet connection being lost from time to time.
>Recently it seems to have got worse but it is not the NTL incoming supply as
>I have proven this to be stable and never drops when only connected to one
>PC and not into the router.
>When the network is all connected and the drops the only way to get the
>internet connection going again is to either reboot the router manually or
>use Gear Minder Router Connection Manager to do a reboot without actually
>having to unplug from the mains.
>Once rebooted it might last 5 minutes or 5 hours before having to reboot
>again.
>
>Network:
>Cable Set-top box
>Netgear RP114 Router (latest firmware) 192.168.0.1, Default DMZ Server
>192.168.0.50 (for Xbox) Firmware Version: V3.26(CD.0) | 8/17/2001
>1 PC downstairs with Norton Antivirus 2003
>Netgear Dual Hub DS104 (upstairs)
>2 PC's upstairs with AVG Antivirus
>
>PC's all running XP SP2 with XP firewall (same probs before SP2) also used
>to have ZoneAlarm on all but same probs.
>Note: When the internet drops I mean web browser, mail and MSN messenger. If
>Kazaa Lite is (for example) connected at the time then this continues to
>stay connected
>and download files.
>
>Ant help would be really appreciated as it is getting really annoying!
>
>Thanks,
>Darren

Darren,

When the network drops, are all computers affected simultaneously?

Is Kazaa Lite frequently running when this problem occurs? Does KL continue to
generate traffic (inbound and outbound)? Can you access the router log, and see
any interesting events when this happens?

Do you have any other P2P applications that you use?

With all due respect to AVG / Norton protecting you from viruses, have you done
a thorough spyware check on your LAN?

Start by downloading each of the following additional free tools:
AdAware <http://www.lavasoftusa.com/>
CWShredder <http://www.majorgeeks.com/download4086.html>
HijackThis <http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=3155>
LSP-Fix and WinsockXPFix <http://www.cexx.org/lspfix.htm>
Spybot S&D <http://www.safer-networking.org/index.php?page=download>
Stinger <http://us.mcafee.com/virusInfo/default.asp?id=stinger>

Create a separate folder for HijackThis, such as C:\HijackThis - copy the
downloaded file there. AdAware, CWShredder, and Spybot S&D have install
routines - run them. The other downloaded programs can be copied into, and run
from, any convenient folder.

First, run Stinger. Have it remove any problems found.

Next, close all Internet Explorer and Outlook windows, and run CWShredder. Have
it fix all problems found.

Next, run AdAware. First update it ("Check for updates now"), configure for
full scan (<http://forums.spywareinfo.com/index.php?showtopic=11150>), then
scan. When scanning finishes, remove all Critical Objects found.

Next, run Spybot S&D. First update it ("Search for updates"), then run a scan
("Check for problems"). Trust Spybot, and delete everything ("Fix Problems")
that is displayed in Red.

Then, run HijackThis ("Scan"). Do NOT make any changes immediately. Save the
HJT Log.
<http://forums.spywareinfo.com/index.php?showtopic=227>
<http://forums.spywareinfo.com/index.php?showtopic=11150>

Finally, have your HJT log interpreted by experts at one or more of the
following security forums (and please post a link to your forum posts, here):
Aumha: <http://forum.aumha.org/index.php>
Net-Integration: <http://forums.net-integration.net/>
Spyware Info: <http://forums.spywareinfo.com/>
Spyware Warrior: <http://spywarewarrior.com/index.php>
Tom Coyote: <http://forums.tomcoyote.org/>

If removal of any spyware affects your ability to access the internet (some
spyware builds itself into the network software, and its removal may damage your
network), run LSP-Fix and / or WinsockXPFIx.

And Darren, please don't contribute to the spread and success of email address
mining viruses. Posting your email address openly will get you more unwanted
email, than wanted email. Learn to munge your email address properly, to keep
yourself a bit safer when posting to open forums. Protect yourself and the rest
of the internet - read this article.
http://www.mailmsg.com/SPAM_munging.htm

Cheers,
Chuck
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.

[Atomic Rooster]

Hi Chuck,
Thanks for the info. I will follow your instructions.
Yes, usually all pc's drop their connection at the same time.
Darren
"Chuck" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:15:02 GMT, "Atomic Rooster"
> <*email_address_deleted*>
> wrote:
>
>>Since setting-up a home network over a year ago we have had intermittent
>>problems with the internet connection being lost from time to time.
>>Recently it seems to have got worse but it is not the NTL incoming supply
>>as
>>I have proven this to be stable and never drops when only connected to one
>>PC and not into the router.
>>When the network is all connected and the drops the only way to get the
>>internet connection going again is to either reboot the router manually or
>>use Gear Minder Router Connection Manager to do a reboot without actually
>>having to unplug from the mains.
>>Once rebooted it might last 5 minutes or 5 hours before having to reboot
>>again.
>>
>>Network:
>>Cable Set-top box
>>Netgear RP114 Router (latest firmware) 192.168.0.1, Default DMZ Server
>>192.168.0.50 (for Xbox) Firmware Version: V3.26(CD.0) | 8/17/2001
>>1 PC downstairs with Norton Antivirus 2003
>>Netgear Dual Hub DS104 (upstairs)
>>2 PC's upstairs with AVG Antivirus
>>
>>PC's all running XP SP2 with XP firewall (same probs before SP2) also used
>>to have ZoneAlarm on all but same probs.
>>Note: When the internet drops I mean web browser, mail and MSN messenger.
>>If
>>Kazaa Lite is (for example) connected at the time then this continues to
>>stay connected
>>and download files.
>>
>>Ant help would be really appreciated as it is getting really annoying!
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Darren
>
> Darren,
>
> When the network drops, are all computers affected simultaneously?
>
> Is Kazaa Lite frequently running when this problem occurs? Does KL
> continue to
> generate traffic (inbound and outbound)? Can you access the router log,
> and see
> any interesting events when this happens?
>
> Do you have any other P2P applications that you use?
>
> With all due respect to AVG / Norton protecting you from viruses, have you
> done
> a thorough spyware check on your LAN?
>
> Start by downloading each of the following additional free tools:
> AdAware <http://www.lavasoftusa.com/>
> CWShredder <http://www.majorgeeks.com/download4086.html>
> HijackThis <http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=3155>
> LSP-Fix and WinsockXPFix <http://www.cexx.org/lspfix.htm>
> Spybot S&D <http://www.safer-networking.org/index.php?page=download>
> Stinger <http://us.mcafee.com/virusInfo/default.asp?id=stinger>
>
> Create a separate folder for HijackThis, such as C:\HijackThis - copy the
> downloaded file there. AdAware, CWShredder, and Spybot S&D have install
> routines - run them. The other downloaded programs can be copied into,
> and run
> from, any convenient folder.
>
> First, run Stinger. Have it remove any problems found.
>
> Next, close all Internet Explorer and Outlook windows, and run CWShredder.
> Have
> it fix all problems found.
>
> Next, run AdAware. First update it ("Check for updates now"), configure
> for
> full scan (<http://forums.spywareinfo.com/index.php?showtopic=11150>),
> then
> scan. When scanning finishes, remove all Critical Objects found.
>
> Next, run Spybot S&D. First update it ("Search for updates"), then run a
> scan
> ("Check for problems"). Trust Spybot, and delete everything ("Fix
> Problems")
> that is displayed in Red.
>
> Then, run HijackThis ("Scan"). Do NOT make any changes immediately. Save
> the
> HJT Log.
> <http://forums.spywareinfo.com/index.php?showtopic=227>
> <http://forums.spywareinfo.com/index.php?showtopic=11150>
>
> Finally, have your HJT log interpreted by experts at one or more of the
> following security forums (and please post a link to your forum posts,
> here):
> Aumha: <http://forum.aumha.org/index.php>
> Net-Integration: <http://forums.net-integration.net/>
> Spyware Info: <http://forums.spywareinfo.com/>
> Spyware Warrior: <http://spywarewarrior.com/index.php>
> Tom Coyote: <http://forums.tomcoyote.org/>
>
> If removal of any spyware affects your ability to access the internet
> (some
> spyware builds itself into the network software, and its removal may
> damage your
> network), run LSP-Fix and / or WinsockXPFIx.
>
> And Darren, please don't contribute to the spread and success of email
> address
> mining viruses. Posting your email address openly will get you more
> unwanted
> email, than wanted email. Learn to munge your email address properly, to
> keep
> yourself a bit safer when posting to open forums. Protect yourself and
> the rest
> of the internet - read this article.
> http://www.mailmsg.com/SPAM_munging.htm
>
> Cheers,
> Chuck
> Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.

[Chuck]

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:14:17 GMT, "Atomic Rooster" <*email_address_deleted*>
wrote:

>Hi Chuck,
>Thanks for the info. I will follow your instructions.
>Yes, usually all pc's drop their connection at the same time.
>Darren

Darren,

If all computers lose connection at the same time, but P2P apps like Kazaa
continue to serve data, you might want to see if your bandwidth is being eaten
up by Kazaa. If you still have network traffic (Kazaa or another P2P app), it
doesn't sound like loss of connectivity, but monopolised bandwidth.

Get a port monitor, like Port Explorer (free) from
<http://www.diamondcs.com.au/portexplorer/index.php?page=home> to show you what
network connections your computer is actually opening, and what processes are
opening them. Might be interesting to see what PE shows the next time your
computers drop connection.

Does "Cable Set-top box" refer to cable broadband? Remember that cable
broadband is a shared service - your neighbors can monopolise the service, and
affect your performance at any time.

Cheers,
Chuck
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.

[Darren]

Hi Chuck,
Yes, set top box houses a cable modem for the broadband connection we have.
I only used Kazaa as an example. At times when nothing but web browsers and
maybe MSN messenger are running the connection still drops. I am going to
check the system tonight as you suggested.
Darren
"Chuck" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:14:17 GMT, "Atomic Rooster"
<*email_address_deleted*>
> wrote:
>
> >Hi Chuck,
> >Thanks for the info. I will follow your instructions.
> >Yes, usually all pc's drop their connection at the same time.
> >Darren
>
> Darren,
>
> If all computers lose connection at the same time, but P2P apps like Kazaa
> continue to serve data, you might want to see if your bandwidth is being
eaten
> up by Kazaa. If you still have network traffic (Kazaa or another P2P
app), it
> doesn't sound like loss of connectivity, but monopolised bandwidth.
>
> Get a port monitor, like Port Explorer (free) from
> <http://www.diamondcs.com.au/portexplorer/index.php?page=home> to show you
what
> network connections your computer is actually opening, and what processes
are
> opening them. Might be interesting to see what PE shows the next time
your
> computers drop connection.
>
> Does "Cable Set-top box" refer to cable broadband? Remember that cable
> broadband is a shared service - your neighbors can monopolise the service,
and
> affect your performance at any time.
>
> Cheers,
> Chuck
> Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.

[Chuck]

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:35:26 +0100, "Darren" <*email_address_deleted*> wrote:

>Hi Chuck,
>Yes, set top box houses a cable modem for the broadband connection we have.
>I only used Kazaa as an example. At times when nothing but web browsers and
>maybe MSN messenger are running the connection still drops. I am going to
>check the system tonight as you suggested.
>Darren

Darren,

Good luck. Please let us know what you find. If you still have network traffic
(Kazaa as an example) when the computers drop connection, this will be
interesting.

Cheers,
Chuck
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.

[Hans-Georg Michna]

Darren,

you already got good advice from Chuck. Let me just add a few
thoughts.

1. Some routers break down when they face a program like Kazaa
that can open hundreds of simultaneous connections. I had to
swap routers for exactly this reason. The Netgear/Zyxel routers
are relatively strong in this respect, but they may have their
limits too. Your remark that Kazaa could still transfer data
after the computers are already starved is a strong hint in this
direction. Therefore it is a good idea to make absolutely sure
that you really get these breakdowns also when Kazaa doesn't
run. My recommendation would be to shut down Kazaa for a week
and observe.

2. Routers can become defective. Your router may be broken. I
would also recheck whether you really have the very latest
firmware on the router. Can you borrow another router for a
test?

3. Not only routers can break. Cables, network adapters, cable
modems and ISP side equipment can break also, have loose
contacts, things like that.

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.

[Atomic Rooster]

Thanks Chuck and George,

I ran all the programs as suggested on all 3 pc's. A few things were found,
mainly cookies.
Time will now tell but if it happens again then maybe it's time to buy a new
router.

Darren
"Hans-Georg Michna" > wrote in message
...
> Darren,
>
> you already got good advice from Chuck. Let me just add a few
> thoughts.
>
> 1. Some routers break down when they face a program like Kazaa
> that can open hundreds of simultaneous connections. I had to
> swap routers for exactly this reason. The Netgear/Zyxel routers
> are relatively strong in this respect, but they may have their
> limits too. Your remark that Kazaa could still transfer data
> after the computers are already starved is a strong hint in this
> direction. Therefore it is a good idea to make absolutely sure
> that you really get these breakdowns also when Kazaa doesn't
> run. My recommendation would be to shut down Kazaa for a week
> and observe.
>
> 2. Routers can become defective. Your router may be broken. I
> would also recheck whether you really have the very latest
> firmware on the router. Can you borrow another router for a
> test?
>
> 3. Not only routers can break. Cables, network adapters, cable
> modems and ISP side equipment can break also, have loose
> contacts, things like that.
>
> Hans-Georg
>
> --
> No mail, please.

[Darren]

To finish this thread....
I bought a new router and everything now is fine.
Thanks
"Atomic Rooster" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks Chuck and George,
>
> I ran all the programs as suggested on all 3 pc's. A few things were
> found, mainly cookies.
> Time will now tell but if it happens again then maybe it's time to buy a
> new router.
>
> Darren
> "Hans-Georg Michna" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Darren,
>>
>> you already got good advice from Chuck. Let me just add a few
>> thoughts.
>>
>> 1. Some routers break down when they face a program like Kazaa
>> that can open hundreds of simultaneous connections. I had to
>> swap routers for exactly this reason. The Netgear/Zyxel routers
>> are relatively strong in this respect, but they may have their
>> limits too. Your remark that Kazaa could still transfer data
>> after the computers are already starved is a strong hint in this
>> direction. Therefore it is a good idea to make absolutely sure
>> that you really get these breakdowns also when Kazaa doesn't
>> run. My recommendation would be to shut down Kazaa for a week
>> and observe.
>>
>> 2. Routers can become defective. Your router may be broken. I
>> would also recheck whether you really have the very latest
>> firmware on the router. Can you borrow another router for a
>> test?
>>
>> 3. Not only routers can break. Cables, network adapters, cable
>> modems and ISP side equipment can break also, have loose
>> contacts, things like that.
>>
>> Hans-Georg
>>
>> --
>> No mail, please.
>
>

[Hans-Georg Michna]

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:58:46 GMT, "Darren"
> wrote:

>To finish this thread....
> I bought a new router and everything now is fine.
>Thanks

Darren,

thanks for reporting back!

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.