Audio calls through WiFi Hotspots?

[intrigued]

Hi all,

I've done some experimentation with XP messenger voice mode via public
Wi-Fi networks. While it works OK on some, I have trouble on T-mobile
Hotspots. No connection seems possible. I have UPnP installed and
enabled on my XP machine, the other (non-wifi) end tests ok. MSN
messenger voice does work. Anybody have any inside info on what
firewall/router/port opening issues exist here?

Bill

[Jonathan Kay [MVP]]

Greetings Bill,

To be honest, I have yet to actually use a T-Mobile hotspot (as far as I know, there are none
around here), but I'm curious as to what IP you get when you use it. If you get an internal
IP (ex. most commonly IPs beginning with 10 and 192), then Messenger audio conversations will
not work -- in order for this to work, the actual NAT (whatever device they have in place
that gives you the internal IP and allows you to connect), must support Universal Plug and
Play (UPnP), which it most certainly does not. You can check your IP address by clicking
Start, then All Programs, then Accessories, then Communications, then Network Connections.
Double-click your Internet/Wireless connection, and choose the Support tab. If they are
giving out internal IPs, that's very disappointing as it severely prevents access to a number
of things (including but not limited to audio conversations).
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Windows MVP, Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com


"intrigued" > wrote in message
m...
> Hi all,
>
> I've done some experimentation with XP messenger voice mode via public
> Wi-Fi networks. While it works OK on some, I have trouble on T-mobile
> Hotspots. No connection seems possible. I have UPnP installed and
> enabled on my XP machine, the other (non-wifi) end tests ok. MSN
> messenger voice does work. Anybody have any inside info on what
> firewall/router/port opening issues exist here?
>
> Bill

[intrigued]

Thanks for the input Jonathan,

Yes they seem to assign you a local IP :(
A couple more questions if anyone can answer.
1) You say they almost certainly don't suport UPnP. Is this to say
that UPnP isn't really becoming the "nat tranversal standard?" If
not, what is?
2) Any idea why MSN messenger would allow voice conversations and XP
messenger won't? It would seem to me that they would function
similarly.
3) My main issue with MSN messenger is voice codec quality. The codec
chosen by XP messenger is much more pleasant than MSN. I know about
the codec in XP messenger, but what is used by default in MSN
messenger? Why is it so much "grungier"?

TIA
Bill


"Jonathan Kay [MVP]" > wrote in message >...
> Greetings Bill,
>
> To be honest, I have yet to actually use a T-Mobile hotspot (as far as I know, there are none
> around here), but I'm curious as to what IP you get when you use it. If you get an internal
> IP (ex. most commonly IPs beginning with 10 and 192), then Messenger audio conversations will
> not work -- in order for this to work, the actual NAT (whatever device they have in place
> that gives you the internal IP and allows you to connect), must support Universal Plug and
> Play (UPnP), which it most certainly does not. You can check your IP address by clicking
> Start, then All Programs, then Accessories, then Communications, then Network Connections.
> Double-click your Internet/Wireless connection, and choose the Support tab. If they are
> giving out internal IPs, that's very disappointing as it severely prevents access to a number
> of things (including but not limited to audio conversations).
> ____________________________________________
> Jonathan Kay
> Windows MVP, Messenger
> Associate Expert
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
>
>
> "intrigued" > wrote in message
> m...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've done some experimentation with XP messenger voice mode via public
> > Wi-Fi networks. While it works OK on some, I have trouble on T-mobile
> > Hotspots. No connection seems possible. I have UPnP installed and
> > enabled on my XP machine, the other (non-wifi) end tests ok. MSN
> > messenger voice does work. Anybody have any inside info on what
> > firewall/router/port opening issues exist here?
> >
> > Bill

[JW]

I think T Mobile is not s
"intrigued" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for the input Jonathan,
>
> Yes they seem to assign you a local IP :(
> A couple more questions if anyone can answer.
> 1) You say they almost certainly don't suport UPnP. Is this to say
> that UPnP isn't really becoming the "nat tranversal standard?" If
> not, what is?
> 2) Any idea why MSN messenger would allow voice conversations and XP
> messenger won't? It would seem to me that they would function
> similarly.
> 3) My main issue with MSN messenger is voice codec quality. The codec
> chosen by XP messenger is much more pleasant than MSN. I know about
> the codec in XP messenger, but what is used by default in MSN
> messenger? Why is it so much "grungier"?
>
> TIA
> Bill
>
>
> "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" > wrote in message
>...
> > Greetings Bill,
> >
> > To be honest, I have yet to actually use a T-Mobile hotspot (as far as I
know, there are none
> > around here), but I'm curious as to what IP you get when you use it. If
you get an internal
> > IP (ex. most commonly IPs beginning with 10 and 192), then Messenger
audio conversations will
> > not work -- in order for this to work, the actual NAT (whatever device
they have in place
> > that gives you the internal IP and allows you to connect), must support
Universal Plug and
> > Play (UPnP), which it most certainly does not. You can check your IP
address by clicking
> > Start, then All Programs, then Accessories, then Communications, then
Network Connections.
> > Double-click your Internet/Wireless connection, and choose the Support
tab. If they are
> > giving out internal IPs, that's very disappointing as it severely
prevents access to a number
> > of things (including but not limited to audio conversations).
> > ____________________________________________
> > Jonathan Kay
> > Windows MVP, Messenger
> > Associate Expert
> > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> > Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
> >
> >
> > "intrigued" > wrote in message
> > m...
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I've done some experimentation with XP messenger voice mode via public
> > > Wi-Fi networks. While it works OK on some, I have trouble on T-mobile
> > > Hotspots. No connection seems possible. I have UPnP installed and
> > > enabled on my XP machine, the other (non-wifi) end tests ok. MSN
> > > messenger voice does work. Anybody have any inside info on what
> > > firewall/router/port opening issues exist here?
> > >
> > > Bill

[JW]

I think T Mobile is not supporting UPnP in their hotspots for 2 reasons.
First they do not want a couple of users using the hotspot to consume all
available bandwidth. Secondly they do not want hotspot users to use "free"
phone service instead of their T Mobile wirelesss service.

"intrigued" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for the input Jonathan,
>
> Yes they seem to assign you a local IP :(
> A couple more questions if anyone can answer.
> 1) You say they almost certainly don't suport UPnP. Is this to say
> that UPnP isn't really becoming the "nat tranversal standard?" If
> not, what is?
> 2) Any idea why MSN messenger would allow voice conversations and XP
> messenger won't? It would seem to me that they would function
> similarly.
> 3) My main issue with MSN messenger is voice codec quality. The codec
> chosen by XP messenger is much more pleasant than MSN. I know about
> the codec in XP messenger, but what is used by default in MSN
> messenger? Why is it so much "grungier"?
>
> TIA
> Bill
>
>
> "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" > wrote in message
>...
> > Greetings Bill,
> >
> > To be honest, I have yet to actually use a T-Mobile hotspot (as far as I
know, there are none
> > around here), but I'm curious as to what IP you get when you use it. If
you get an internal
> > IP (ex. most commonly IPs beginning with 10 and 192), then Messenger
audio conversations will
> > not work -- in order for this to work, the actual NAT (whatever device
they have in place
> > that gives you the internal IP and allows you to connect), must support
Universal Plug and
> > Play (UPnP), which it most certainly does not. You can check your IP
address by clicking
> > Start, then All Programs, then Accessories, then Communications, then
Network Connections.
> > Double-click your Internet/Wireless connection, and choose the Support
tab. If they are
> > giving out internal IPs, that's very disappointing as it severely
prevents access to a number
> > of things (including but not limited to audio conversations).
> > ____________________________________________
> > Jonathan Kay
> > Windows MVP, Messenger
> > Associate Expert
> > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> > Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
> >
> >
> > "intrigued" > wrote in message
> > m...
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I've done some experimentation with XP messenger voice mode via public
> > > Wi-Fi networks. While it works OK on some, I have trouble on T-mobile
> > > Hotspots. No connection seems possible. I have UPnP installed and
> > > enabled on my XP machine, the other (non-wifi) end tests ok. MSN
> > > messenger voice does work. Anybody have any inside info on what
> > > firewall/router/port opening issues exist here?
> > >
> > > Bill

[Jonathan Kay [MVP]]

Hi Bill,

1 -- Well, Cisco isn't supporting it on any of their products, and as such, it's mainly
limited to the residential market. Without writing a novel on the drawbacks to UPnP, I think
they're waiting for version 2 before they start to deploy or even consider it.
2 -- The connection scheme is different, assuming you're referring to MSN Messenger 6.
3 -- They should be exactly identical with codec codecs -- actually Messenger doesn't just
use "one" codec, it uses a multitude of different codecs, not only chosen based upon an
initial bandwidth test, but dynamically can adjust itself during the conversation. For
interest, you can find more about the codecs here:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/dnwxp/html/mediainrtcclient.asp
It may have just been the exact circumstances when you've tried each.
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Windows MVP, Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com

"intrigued" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for the input Jonathan,
>
> Yes they seem to assign you a local IP :(
> A couple more questions if anyone can answer.
> 1) You say they almost certainly don't suport UPnP. Is this to say
> that UPnP isn't really becoming the "nat tranversal standard?" If
> not, what is?
> 2) Any idea why MSN messenger would allow voice conversations and XP
> messenger won't? It would seem to me that they would function
> similarly.
> 3) My main issue with MSN messenger is voice codec quality. The codec
> chosen by XP messenger is much more pleasant than MSN. I know about
> the codec in XP messenger, but what is used by default in MSN
> messenger? Why is it so much "grungier"?
>
> TIA
> Bill
>
>
> "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" > wrote in message
>...
> > Greetings Bill,
> >
> > To be honest, I have yet to actually use a T-Mobile hotspot (as far as I know, there are
none
> > around here), but I'm curious as to what IP you get when you use it. If you get an
internal
> > IP (ex. most commonly IPs beginning with 10 and 192), then Messenger audio conversations
will
> > not work -- in order for this to work, the actual NAT (whatever device they have in place
> > that gives you the internal IP and allows you to connect), must support Universal Plug
and
> > Play (UPnP), which it most certainly does not. You can check your IP address by clicking
> > Start, then All Programs, then Accessories, then Communications, then Network
Connections.
> > Double-click your Internet/Wireless connection, and choose the Support tab. If they are
> > giving out internal IPs, that's very disappointing as it severely prevents access to a
number
> > of things (including but not limited to audio conversations).
> > ____________________________________________
> > Jonathan Kay
> > Windows MVP, Messenger
> > Associate Expert
> > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> > Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
> >
> >
> > "intrigued" > wrote in message
> > m...
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I've done some experimentation with XP messenger voice mode via public
> > > Wi-Fi networks. While it works OK on some, I have trouble on T-mobile
> > > Hotspots. No connection seems possible. I have UPnP installed and
> > > enabled on my XP machine, the other (non-wifi) end tests ok. MSN
> > > messenger voice does work. Anybody have any inside info on what
> > > firewall/router/port opening issues exist here?
> > >
> > > Bill