CD/RW Confusion?

[Bill R]

I need a primer on writing to a CD/RW disk. My current
drive supports CD/RW disks, but for some reason I keep
getting error messages when I try to write to a CD/RW
disk. I have NO problems writing to a CD-R disk, only
CD/RW. It either tells me that the disk is full, or that
it's not a writable disk, etc.

Any ideas? For some reason I thought that writing to a
CD/RW was just like writing to a CD-R, but I guess I'm
mistaken.

[R. C. White]

Hi, Bill.

I'm no expert on these things, but maybe I can throw in a couple of tidbits
at the primer level. ;^}

No, CD-R and CD-RW are not quite alike. The major difference is that CD-R
writes data in a continuous stream to a blank disk, formatting as it goes.
Once written, the data is there and can't be erased or overwritten. CD-RW,
though, works much like a very large floppy disk, or like a very slow hard
disk. It uses a system called "packet writing". Each packet (one or more
clusters) can be written to a specific spot on the disk, not just at the
next location in the stream. The data can be deleted or overwritten. To
make this work, the disk must be formatted ahead of time, like a floppy or
HD. (I understand that some newer CD-RW systems allow just-in-time
formatting, but I haven't used one of those programs.) Very generally
speaking, CD-R is better for music (because of the streaming) or for
pictures and other graphics (that are saved once and never updated). CD-RW
is better for data that changes from time to time.

The only CD-RW system I've used is ahead software's InCD, which came bundled
with their Nero Burning ROM - which came bundled with my TDK CD-RW drive.
With this program, I have to format a blank CD-RW disk. Then I can use it
just like a slow HD. (A Quicken backup to my HD that takes under 2 seconds
takes 20 seconds to backup to my CD-RW.) Maybe your CD-RW disk just needs
to be formatted before you try to write anything to it.

End of Lesson 1. Not because I've told you all you need to know, but
because I've told you just about all that I know.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP

"Bill R" > wrote in message
...
> I need a primer on writing to a CD/RW disk. My current
> drive supports CD/RW disks, but for some reason I keep
> getting error messages when I try to write to a CD/RW
> disk. I have NO problems writing to a CD-R disk, only
> CD/RW. It either tells me that the disk is full, or that
> it's not a writable disk, etc.
>
> Any ideas? For some reason I thought that writing to a
> CD/RW was just like writing to a CD-R, but I guess I'm
> mistaken.

[Simon Pleasants]

On Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:07:44 -0500, "R. C. White" >
wrote:

{snip}

>End of Lesson 1. Not because I've told you all you need to know, but
>because I've told you just about all that I know.

As I understand it, not necessarily correctly, you can also use CDRW
as a multisession disc as well. You simply treat it the same way as a
normal CDR (a very slow one) and write to it session by session. Make
sure you do no finalise the disc and when you run out of space use the
option in Nero to "Erase re-writable disc". Now you can use it all
over again.

Personally I find UDF packet formatted discs are the best but it is
also true that multisession writing has its uses - if you don't mind
being reduced to burning at 4x!

[Neysa Wilfong]

Bill,
This is just a personal opinion and I am sure others have their own
opinions.
I have both Nero and Roxio. Just my opinion Roxio is better for RW use. When
cd writers first came out I just had to have one (about 5 or more years ago
or so) and used the one time writing use much more than I do now. For that
Nero is great (Roxio works very well also and I use it all the time)
Now I tend to use the RW much more than the R. I use cds as you would a
floppy. You can use CD-R for multiple recording as long as you do not close
the disk. Once closed it is very stable and I cannot recall ever losing data
from a closed CD-R. But you cannot reuse the disc - what is there is there
forever and can no longer be edited.
A CD-RW can be added to nearly forever. (I think it does have a limit of how
many times it can be erased and reformated though since disc space is lost
with each format). However, speaking only for myself - I would like to hear
the opinion of others - I have lost data on discs that are modified often. I
do not feel that CDs are as stable as old flopy disks. But it is just my
opinion. I have made probably about 200 CD-Rs and around 75 or so CD-RW
finalized recordings. Yes some is music but the most of it is pictures,
programs and text.

I have always used Roxio software and Nero is newer to me and so I am
partial to Roxio but I do think it is a program worthy to have. If you don't
have it I strongly recommend it. It is very user friendly and has a good
'toolbox' utility to fix disks that have errors etc.
Best wishes,
Neysa.

"Bill R" > wrote in message
...
> I need a primer on writing to a CD/RW disk. My current
> drive supports CD/RW disks, but for some reason I keep
> getting error messages when I try to write to a CD/RW
> disk. I have NO problems writing to a CD-R disk, only
> CD/RW. It either tells me that the disk is full, or that
> it's not a writable disk, etc.
>
> Any ideas? For some reason I thought that writing to a
> CD/RW was just like writing to a CD-R, but I guess I'm
> mistaken.

[Edward W. Thompson]

I do not question your experience and I used to share your opinion with
respect to packet writing and CD-RW despite reading warnings by others of
the basic lack of reliability of packet written data. I have now changed as
I "lost" CD-RW disk of irreplaceable data, photographs actually. I was
fortunate that I managed to recover some of the images using CDDR but not
all. Now I am in the "other" camp, that is not trusting packet writing to
CD-RW disks.

The alternative to "packet writing" is to use CD-RW disks but write to them
using mastering programs (Nero and ECD(Roxio)). You can erase files but you
can't rewrite to the erased space. The disk is reusable if you wipe the
whole disk so while it does not have all the attractions of a packet writing
it has most plus security of the data.

In conclusion I caution you about using packet writing to CD-RW disks. I
venture to suggest you have been lucky so far but sooner or latter you will
lose a disk of data. If that data is important to you will likely change
your opinion as I changed mine.

With respect to Roxio, I think the description of bloated and overpriced is
a fitting description. I don't doubt it has some nice features but so do
most Mastering Programs. Roxio would not be my first choice among the
various programs that are available.
"Neysa Wilfong" > wrote in message
...
> Bill,
> This is just a personal opinion and I am sure others have their own
> opinions.
> I have both Nero and Roxio. Just my opinion Roxio is better for RW use.
When
> cd writers first came out I just had to have one (about 5 or more years
ago
> or so) and used the one time writing use much more than I do now. For that
> Nero is great (Roxio works very well also and I use it all the time)
> Now I tend to use the RW much more than the R. I use cds as you would a
> floppy. You can use CD-R for multiple recording as long as you do not
close
> the disk. Once closed it is very stable and I cannot recall ever losing
data
> from a closed CD-R. But you cannot reuse the disc - what is there is there
> forever and can no longer be edited.
> A CD-RW can be added to nearly forever. (I think it does have a limit of
how
> many times it can be erased and reformated though since disc space is lost
> with each format). However, speaking only for myself - I would like to
hear
> the opinion of others - I have lost data on discs that are modified often.
I
> do not feel that CDs are as stable as old flopy disks. But it is just my
> opinion. I have made probably about 200 CD-Rs and around 75 or so CD-RW
> finalized recordings. Yes some is music but the most of it is pictures,
> programs and text.
>
> I have always used Roxio software and Nero is newer to me and so I am
> partial to Roxio but I do think it is a program worthy to have. If you
don't
> have it I strongly recommend it. It is very user friendly and has a good
> 'toolbox' utility to fix disks that have errors etc.
> Best wishes,
> Neysa.
>
> "Bill R" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I need a primer on writing to a CD/RW disk. My current
> > drive supports CD/RW disks, but for some reason I keep
> > getting error messages when I try to write to a CD/RW
> > disk. I have NO problems writing to a CD-R disk, only
> > CD/RW. It either tells me that the disk is full, or that
> > it's not a writable disk, etc.
> >
> > Any ideas? For some reason I thought that writing to a
> > CD/RW was just like writing to a CD-R, but I guess I'm
> > mistaken.
>
>

[Simon Pleasants]

On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 07:24:13 +0100, "Edward W. Thompson"
> wrote:

>I do not question your experience and I used to share your opinion with
>respect to packet writing and CD-RW despite reading warnings by others of
>the basic lack of reliability of packet written data. I have now changed as
>I "lost" CD-RW disk of irreplaceable data, photographs actually. I was
>fortunate that I managed to recover some of the images using CDDR but not
>all. Now I am in the "other" camp, that is not trusting packet writing to
>CD-RW disks.
>
>The alternative to "packet writing" is to use CD-RW disks but write to them
>using mastering programs (Nero and ECD(Roxio)). You can erase files but you
>can't rewrite to the erased space. The disk is reusable if you wipe the
>whole disk so while it does not have all the attractions of a packet writing
>it has most plus security of the data.
>
>In conclusion I caution you about using packet writing to CD-RW disks. I
>venture to suggest you have been lucky so far but sooner or latter you will
>lose a disk of data. If that data is important to you will likely change
>your opinion as I changed mine.
>
>With respect to Roxio, I think the description of bloated and overpriced is
>a fitting description. I don't doubt it has some nice features but so do
>most Mastering Programs. Roxio would not be my first choice among the
>various programs that are available.

In my experience the stability of packet written discs is constantly
improving. When I first started using Ahead Software's InCD program
(i.e. the UDF version of Nero) I found it extremely unreliable and
quickly stopped using it in favour of multisession writing in Nero.

About 18 months ago I installed a more up to date version of InCD and
have almost never suffered the same problem since (note the "almost").
I use packet writing constantly now, although never to store critical
data and only ever as an interim (everything is later written to a
multi-session CD-R). I am still using InCD 2.4 but I notice Ahead
have now released v4 and I plan to upgrade soon.

Have a look at http://www.nero.com/en/index.html#root

[Alex Nichol]

Bill R wrote:

>I need a primer on writing to a CD/RW disk. My current=20
>drive supports CD/RW disks, but for some reason I keep=20
>getting error messages when I try to write to a CD/RW=20
>disk. I have NO problems writing to a CD-R disk, only=20
>CD/RW. It either tells me that the disk is full, or that=20
>it's not a writable disk, etc. =20
>
>Any ideas? For some reason I thought that writing to a=20
>CD/RW was just like writing to a CD-R, but I guess I'm=20
>mistaken.

It depends on what software you are using, but usually CD-RW are handled
in entirely different methods - using 'Packet writing', much more like a
big floppy, against writing a complete 'session' as a continuous 'track'

Good primer on the principles is at=20
http://www.mrichter.com/cdr/primer/primer.htm

Considerations regarding CD burning in XP at
http://aumha.org/win5/a/xpcd.htm

--=20
Alex Nichol MS MVP (Windows Technologies)
Bournemouth, U.K.