Stamping out Piracy

[Roger Lemon]

I build and repair computers and from time to time come across pirated copies
of XP. Some I refuse to touch but others, where people are genuinely
surprised that they have a bent copy, I will work on, subject to their buying
a legal copy.

I believe Microsoft should acknowledge and assist the trade in these matters
and make it easier for us to activate a new copy of XP rather than having to
format to destroy the old installation and reinstall everything from scratch.
If a user has genuinely been misled into buying a computer with a bent copy,
and then does the decent thing, why should they suffer the extra cost of
having to put all their programmes back in to the new installation.

This is actually counter-productive. Some people prefer to keep their bent
copy pf Windows rather than pay the costs of all the time it takes to
reinstall the whole thing. I've known it to happen where they are quite
happy to buy the proper, legal product but not stand the costs of a copmlete
format and reinstall.

Come on Microsoft - give the trade credit for trying to fight this battle
with you. Give us an added option in Activation procedures. Let us use the
Change Product Key facility to show that a legal copy has been bought.

Do I have any support for this view?
--
Roger Lemon
Newport Pagnell
England

[Kenny S]

Microsoft knows that various versions of windows have been pirated all over
the
world, and they let that be on purpose until windows was the dominant OS on
computers. Even XP protection of piracy is only made for the casual copying.


"Roger Lemon" > wrote in message
...
>I build and repair computers and from time to time come across pirated
>copies
> of XP. Some I refuse to touch but others, where people are genuinely
> surprised that they have a bent copy, I will work on, subject to their
> buying
> a legal copy.
>
> I believe Microsoft should acknowledge and assist the trade in these
> matters
> and make it easier for us to activate a new copy of XP rather than having
> to
> format to destroy the old installation and reinstall everything from
> scratch.
> If a user has genuinely been misled into buying a computer with a bent
> copy,
> and then does the decent thing, why should they suffer the extra cost of
> having to put all their programmes back in to the new installation.
>
> This is actually counter-productive. Some people prefer to keep their
> bent
> copy pf Windows rather than pay the costs of all the time it takes to
> reinstall the whole thing. I've known it to happen where they are quite
> happy to buy the proper, legal product but not stand the costs of a
> copmlete
> format and reinstall.
>
> Come on Microsoft - give the trade credit for trying to fight this battle
> with you. Give us an added option in Activation procedures. Let us use
> the
> Change Product Key facility to show that a legal copy has been bought.
>
> Do I have any support for this view?
> --
> Roger Lemon
> Newport Pagnell
> England
>
>
>

[Alias]

"Kenny S" > wrote

> Microsoft knows that various versions of windows have been pirated all
> over the
> world, and they let that be on purpose until windows was the dominant OS
> on computers. Even XP protection of piracy is only made for the casual
> copying.

Right, the paying customers. This *will* backfire. For the first time in my
life, I am considering Linux.

Alias
>
>
> "Roger Lemon" > wrote
>>I build and repair computers and from time to time come across pirated
>>copies
>> of XP. Some I refuse to touch but others, where people are genuinely
>> surprised that they have a bent copy, I will work on, subject to their
>> buying
>> a legal copy.
>>
>> I believe Microsoft should acknowledge and assist the trade in these
>> matters
>> and make it easier for us to activate a new copy of XP rather than having
>> to
>> format to destroy the old installation and reinstall everything from
>> scratch.
>> If a user has genuinely been misled into buying a computer with a bent
>> copy,
>> and then does the decent thing, why should they suffer the extra cost of
>> having to put all their programmes back in to the new installation.
>>
>> This is actually counter-productive. Some people prefer to keep their
>> bent
>> copy pf Windows rather than pay the costs of all the time it takes to
>> reinstall the whole thing. I've known it to happen where they are quite
>> happy to buy the proper, legal product but not stand the costs of a
>> copmlete
>> format and reinstall.
>>
>> Come on Microsoft - give the trade credit for trying to fight this battle
>> with you. Give us an added option in Activation procedures. Let us use
>> the
>> Change Product Key facility to show that a legal copy has been bought.
>>
>> Do I have any support for this view?
>> --
>> Roger Lemon
>> Newport Pagnell
>> England
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Steve N.]

Roger Lemon wrote:

> I build and repair computers and from time to time come across pirated copies
> of XP. Some I refuse to touch but others, where people are genuinely
> surprised that they have a bent copy, I will work on, subject to their buying
> a legal copy.
>
> I believe Microsoft should acknowledge and assist the trade in these matters
> and make it easier for us to activate a new copy of XP rather than having to
> format to destroy the old installation and reinstall everything from scratch.
> If a user has genuinely been misled into buying a computer with a bent copy,
> and then does the decent thing, why should they suffer the extra cost of
> having to put all their programmes back in to the new installation.
>
> This is actually counter-productive. Some people prefer to keep their bent
> copy pf Windows rather than pay the costs of all the time it takes to
> reinstall the whole thing. I've known it to happen where they are quite
> happy to buy the proper, legal product but not stand the costs of a copmlete
> format and reinstall.
>
> Come on Microsoft - give the trade credit for trying to fight this battle
> with you. Give us an added option in Activation procedures. Let us use the
> Change Product Key facility to show that a legal copy has been bought.
>
> Do I have any support for this view?

A repair installation from legitimate CD and with legitimate PID code is
all that is needed to correct a pirated installation, not a clean
installation. A repair install usually keeps files and apps intact but
any additional SPs and patches need to be re-appplied.

I agree with you otherwise, though.

Steve

[kurttrail]

Roger Lemon wrote:
> I build and repair computers and from time to time come across
> pirated copies of XP. Some I refuse to touch but others, where
> people are genuinely surprised that they have a bent copy, I will
> work on, subject to their buying a legal copy.
>
> I believe Microsoft should acknowledge and assist the trade in these
> matters and make it easier for us to activate a new copy of XP rather
> than having to format to destroy the old installation and reinstall
> everything from scratch. If a user has genuinely been misled into
> buying a computer with a bent copy, and then does the decent thing,
> why should they suffer the extra cost of having to put all their
> programmes back in to the new installation.
>
> This is actually counter-productive. Some people prefer to keep
> their bent copy pf Windows rather than pay the costs of all the time
> it takes to reinstall the whole thing. I've known it to happen where
> they are quite happy to buy the proper, legal product but not stand
> the costs of a copmlete format and reinstall.
>
> Come on Microsoft - give the trade credit for trying to fight this
> battle with you. Give us an added option in Activation procedures.
> Let us use the Change Product Key facility to show that a legal copy
> has been bought.
>
> Do I have any support for this view?

Yes. You'd have the support of me, and I bet many MVP here too.
Unfortunately, I doubt that MS would ever support it, since one of the
main reason for WGA (Validation) is to point out pirated copies of the
OS to get people to run Genuine software because it is BETTER than
pirated OS's. MS claims that pirated OS's aren't as reliable, and are
full of trojans and other nasties, so under that reasoning MS is
unlikely to allow any easy way of rehabilitating a pirated OS.

What you can do is offer to perform a repair install over the pirated
OS, at a lesser price of that of a complete clean install. It takes as
long as installation, and some some drivers, and all the patches may
need to be reinstalled afterwards, but you wouldn't have to format the
harddrive, nor reinstall all of the software. Give your customers that
choice, and many more may choose to move to a Genuine OS.

Depending on the machine, and if you set yourself up with a OEM CD that
has slipstreamed all the patches, a repair install would take less than
an hour, where a clean install could take a couple hours minimum. You
could use your one slipstreamed CD to do all the repair installs, and
just use the PK of the OEM copy you are selling to your customer.

Test it out first, but if you can give your potential customers with a
pirated OS a less expensive way to move to a Geniune OS, more of them
would be inclined to accept it, and you can make some money too. Give
your customers the choice between the cheaper way of the repair install
route, or the more reliable way of the complete reinstall, and some will
still choose the complete reinstall. Consumers love choice. And as
Linux comes closer and closer to being a consumer OS that is capable of
running most hardware and software, many customers will want that choice
too, over the choice of MS and its draconian rules.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

[Plato]

=?Utf-8?B?Um9nZXIgTGVtb24=?= wrote:
>
> I build and repair computers and from time to time come across pirated copies
> of XP. Some I refuse to touch but others, where people are genuinely
> surprised that they have a bent copy, I will work on, subject to their buying
> a legal copy.

"Refuse to touch", grin. Not only that, but often folks got in the "deal
too good to be true" an absolute garbage can of parts inside. No driver
disks, nothing.

[Roger Lemon]

"Plato" wrote:

> =?Utf-8?B?Um9nZXIgTGVtb24=?= wrote:
> >
> > I build and repair computers and from time to time come across pirated copies
> > of XP. Some I refuse to touch but others, where people are genuinely
> > surprised that they have a bent copy, I will work on, subject to their buying
> > a legal copy.
>
> "Refuse to touch", grin. Not only that, but often folks got in the "deal
> too good to be true" an absolute garbage can of parts inside. No driver
> disks, nothing.
>
>
Not on this occasion - I built the machine and only found out the software
was illegal on trying to reactivate. When I called this thread Piracy, maybe
I misdescribed it. The software I most frequently come across is usually
"borrowed" from a company along with a Corporate Product Key. That's what
happened in this instance. I've only encountered one definitely pirated copy
and the cover was so obvious, I'm surprised anyone could be taken in by it.

[BBUNNY]

kurttrail wrote:
| Roger Lemon wrote:
|| I build and repair computers and from time to time come across
|| pirated copies of XP. Some I refuse to touch but others, where
|| people are genuinely surprised that they have a bent copy, I will
|| work on, subject to their buying a legal copy.
||
|| I believe Microsoft should acknowledge and assist the trade in these
|| matters and make it easier for us to activate a new copy of XP rather
|| than having to format to destroy the old installation and reinstall
|| everything from scratch. If a user has genuinely been misled into
|| buying a computer with a bent copy, and then does the decent thing,
|| why should they suffer the extra cost of having to put all their
|| programmes back in to the new installation.
||
|| This is actually counter-productive. Some people prefer to keep
|| their bent copy pf Windows rather than pay the costs of all the time
|| it takes to reinstall the whole thing. I've known it to happen where
|| they are quite happy to buy the proper, legal product but not stand
|| the costs of a copmlete format and reinstall.
||
|| Come on Microsoft - give the trade credit for trying to fight this
|| battle with you. Give us an added option in Activation procedures.
|| Let us use the Change Product Key facility to show that a legal copy
|| has been bought.
||
|| Do I have any support for this view?
|
| Yes. You'd have the support of me, and I bet many MVP here too.
| Unfortunately, I doubt that MS would ever support it, since one of the
| main reason for WGA (Validation) is to point out pirated copies of the
| OS to get people to run Genuine software because it is BETTER than
| pirated OS's. MS claims that pirated OS's aren't as reliable, and
| are full of trojans and other nasties, so under that reasoning MS is
| unlikely to allow any easy way of rehabilitating a pirated OS.
|
| What you can do is offer to perform a repair install over the pirated
| OS, at a lesser price of that of a complete clean install. It takes
| as long as installation, and some some drivers, and all the patches
| may need to be reinstalled afterwards, but you wouldn't have to
| format the harddrive, nor reinstall all of the software. Give your
| customers that choice, and many more may choose to move to a Genuine
| OS.
|
| Depending on the machine, and if you set yourself up with a OEM CD
| that has slipstreamed all the patches, a repair install would take
| less than an hour, where a clean install could take a couple hours
| minimum. You could use your one slipstreamed CD to do all the repair
| installs, and just use the PK of the OEM copy you are selling to your
| customer.
|
| Test it out first, but if you can give your potential customers with a
| pirated OS a less expensive way to move to a Geniune OS, more of them
| would be inclined to accept it, and you can make some money too. Give
| your customers the choice between the cheaper way of the repair
| install route, or the more reliable way of the complete reinstall,
| and some will still choose the complete reinstall. Consumers love
| choice. And as Linux comes closer and closer to being a consumer OS
| that is capable of running most hardware and software, many customers
| will want that choice too, over the choice of MS and its draconian
| rules.

A person that just does a little web surfing, email, would find little
difference
between a GPL Linux and Windows. With the exception that they would
have
to log on and off and su/sudo to install _anything_

[Mike S]

I own two PC's both with a legal copy of XP pro. However as a sad geek i
move video cards change motherboards and other hardware around and change
things all the time. I regularly have to call micorosft to get my key
re-enabled after a hardware swap and they regularly treat me like a
criminal when i do.

I would be quite happy to go back to a dong system . With USB it would be
easy and with a single user license i could use as many PC's as i wanted
with my one USB key . All the vendors could get together and agree a common
standard.....sorry i just woke up there..

As was pointed out microsoft got to be big by bundling and making copying
easier and doing corporate license deals at rock bottm prices until they
owned the market.
13 years ago in a big IT corporate i could buy office for less than $25 per
copy which was cheaper than I could buy our own integrated suite for. That
suite no longer exists.

They need to come up with a sensible copy protection system that doesnt
penalise the honest and allows home users an affordable way in.



"Roger Lemon" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Plato" wrote:
>
>> =?Utf-8?B?Um9nZXIgTGVtb24=?= wrote:
>> >
>> > I build and repair computers and from time to time come across pirated
>> > copies
>> > of XP. Some I refuse to touch but others, where people are genuinely
>> > surprised that they have a bent copy, I will work on, subject to their
>> > buying
>> > a legal copy.
>>
>> "Refuse to touch", grin. Not only that, but often folks got in the "deal
>> too good to be true" an absolute garbage can of parts inside. No driver
>> disks, nothing.
>>
>>
> Not on this occasion - I built the machine and only found out the software
> was illegal on trying to reactivate. When I called this thread Piracy,
> maybe
> I misdescribed it. The software I most frequently come across is usually
> "borrowed" from a company along with a Corporate Product Key. That's what
> happened in this instance. I've only encountered one definitely pirated
> copy
> and the cover was so obvious, I'm surprised anyone could be taken in by
> it.
>
>

[Bruce Chambers]

Roger Lemon wrote:
> I build and repair computers and from time to time come across pirated copies
> of XP. Some I refuse to touch but others, where people are genuinely
> surprised that they have a bent copy, I will work on, subject to their buying
> a legal copy.
>
> I believe Microsoft should acknowledge and assist the trade in these matters
> and make it easier for us to activate a new copy of XP rather than having to
> format to destroy the old installation and reinstall everything from scratch.


Why are you having to format and reinstall? You're post implies that
you're a computer technician, so you should know better. Why do you
simply not perform a repair installation, using the legitimate CD and
Product Key?


>
> This is actually counter-productive.


Agreed. Why do *you* put your customers through this?


> Some people prefer to keep their bent
> copy pf Windows rather than pay the costs of all the time it takes to
> reinstall the whole thing. I've known it to happen where they are quite
> happy to buy the proper, legal product but not stand the costs of a copmlete
> format and reinstall.
>


Again, why do *you* insist upon a format and clean installation?


> Come on Microsoft - give the trade credit for trying to fight this battle
> with you. Give us an added option in Activation procedures.


Let's not blame Microsoft for *your* actions, eh?


>
> Do I have any support for this view?


Certainly. From Microsoft. That's why the capability of performing a
repair installation was built into the OS.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH

[Alias]

"Bruce Chambers" > wrote in message
...
> Roger Lemon wrote:
>> I build and repair computers and from time to time come across pirated
>> copies of XP. Some I refuse to touch but others, where people are
>> genuinely surprised that they have a bent copy, I will work on, subject
>> to their buying a legal copy.
>>
>> I believe Microsoft should acknowledge and assist the trade in these
>> matters and make it easier for us to activate a new copy of XP rather
>> than having to format to destroy the old installation and reinstall
>> everything from scratch.
>
>
> Why are you having to format and reinstall? You're post implies that
> you're a computer technician, so you should know better. Why do you
> simply not perform a repair installation, using the legitimate CD and
> Product Key?
>
>
>>
>> This is actually counter-productive.
>
>
> Agreed. Why do *you* put your customers through this?
>
>
>> Some people prefer to keep their bent copy pf Windows rather than pay
>> the costs of all the time it takes to reinstall the whole thing. I've
>> known it to happen where they are quite happy to buy the proper, legal
>> product but not stand the costs of a copmlete format and reinstall.
>>
>
>
> Again, why do *you* insist upon a format and clean installation?
>
>
>> Come on Microsoft - give the trade credit for trying to fight this battle
>> with you. Give us an added option in Activation procedures.
>
>
> Let's not blame Microsoft for *your* actions, eh?
>
>
>>
>> Do I have any support for this view?
>
>
> Certainly. From Microsoft. That's why the capability of performing a
> repair installation was built into the OS.
>
>
> --
>
> Bruce Chambers

Can only Retail versions do a repair install, or can an OEM do one? Must
they be in the same language?

Alias

[Alias]

"Alias" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bruce Chambers" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Roger Lemon wrote:
>>> I build and repair computers and from time to time come across pirated
>>> copies of XP. Some I refuse to touch but others, where people are
>>> genuinely surprised that they have a bent copy, I will work on, subject
>>> to their buying a legal copy.
>>>
>>> I believe Microsoft should acknowledge and assist the trade in these
>>> matters and make it easier for us to activate a new copy of XP rather
>>> than having to format to destroy the old installation and reinstall
>>> everything from scratch.
>>
>>
>> Why are you having to format and reinstall? You're post implies that
>> you're a computer technician, so you should know better. Why do you
>> simply not perform a repair installation, using the legitimate CD and
>> Product Key?
>>
>>
>>>
>>> This is actually counter-productive.
>>
>>
>> Agreed. Why do *you* put your customers through this?
>>
>>
>>> Some people prefer to keep their bent copy pf Windows rather than pay
>>> the costs of all the time it takes to reinstall the whole thing. I've
>>> known it to happen where they are quite happy to buy the proper, legal
>>> product but not stand the costs of a copmlete format and reinstall.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Again, why do *you* insist upon a format and clean installation?
>>
>>
>>> Come on Microsoft - give the trade credit for trying to fight this
>>> battle with you. Give us an added option in Activation procedures.
>>
>>
>> Let's not blame Microsoft for *your* actions, eh?
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Do I have any support for this view?
>>
>>
>> Certainly. From Microsoft. That's why the capability of performing a
>> repair installation was built into the OS.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Bruce Chambers
>
> Can only Retail versions do a repair install, or can an OEM do one? Must
> they be in the same language?
>
> Alias


Can an OEM Home repair a cracked Pro?

Alias
>
>

[kurttrail]

Bruce Chambers wrote:
> Roger Lemon wrote:
>> I build and repair computers and from time to time come across
>> pirated copies of XP. Some I refuse to touch but others, where
>> people are genuinely surprised that they have a bent copy, I will
>> work on, subject to their buying a legal copy.
>>
>> I believe Microsoft should acknowledge and assist the trade in these
>> matters and make it easier for us to activate a new copy of XP
>> rather than having to format to destroy the old installation and
>> reinstall everything from scratch.
>
>
> Why are you having to format and reinstall? You're post implies that
> you're a computer technician, so you should know better. Why do you
> simply not perform a repair installation, using the legitimate CD and
> Product Key?
>
>
>>
>> This is actually counter-productive.
>
>
> Agreed. Why do *you* put your customers through this?
>
>
>> Some people prefer to keep their bent
>> copy pf Windows rather than pay the costs of all the time it takes
>> to reinstall the whole thing. I've known it to happen where they
>> are quite happy to buy the proper, legal product but not stand the
>> costs of a copmlete format and reinstall.
>>
>
>
> Again, why do *you* insist upon a format and clean installation?
>
>
>> Come on Microsoft - give the trade credit for trying to fight this
>> battle with you. Give us an added option in Activation procedures.
>
>
> Let's not blame Microsoft for *your* actions, eh?
>
>
>>
>> Do I have any support for this view?
>
>
> Certainly. From Microsoft. That's why the capability of performing a
> repair installation was built into the OS.

Because a tool to just switch PKs would take a minute, and a repair
install would take a hell of a lot longer.

Generally, I agree with you, but even a repair install adds more costs
to the process of switching to a Genuine OS when done by a repair shop.
But like I already said, MS is not like to help out with such a tool to
easily switch a pirated installation into a legit one.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

[Roger Lemon]

No - Home over Pro doesn't work, neither does the other way around. The
Repair option is fine when dealing with a new CD with SP2 coded in. Buy an
older one and try a Repair install over an installation with the download of
SP2 in, or even the proper MS CD, and it fails.

I don't have much experience of OEM disks but I suspect they are prone only
to work on systems for which they were coded. I wouldn't buy one. The
customers I'm talking about are those who want to regularise their position
with MS, having discovered to their horror they had a "not quite Kosher"
installation. They want to see a proper MS disk going in this time - not an
OEM cheapie.

I've had some interesting replies to this one and my thinking seems to be
divided equally between those who believe I'm out of step and those who agree
with me - with a slight smattering of those who don't thknk I knwo what I'm
doing thrown in.

Thanks for all your input folks. When use of counterfeit or copied software
is still going on a few years down the line, I'll reckon to know one of the
reasons, but I still won't want to become involved.


"Alias" wrote:

>
> "Alias" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Bruce Chambers" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Roger Lemon wrote:
> >>> I build and repair computers and from time to time come across pirated
> >>> copies of XP. Some I refuse to touch but others, where people are
> >>> genuinely surprised that they have a bent copy, I will work on, subject
> >>> to their buying a legal copy.
> >>>
> >>> I believe Microsoft should acknowledge and assist the trade in these
> >>> matters and make it easier for us to activate a new copy of XP rather
> >>> than having to format to destroy the old installation and reinstall
> >>> everything from scratch.
> >>
> >>
> >> Why are you having to format and reinstall? You're post implies that
> >> you're a computer technician, so you should know better. Why do you
> >> simply not perform a repair installation, using the legitimate CD and
> >> Product Key?
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> This is actually counter-productive.
> >>
> >>
> >> Agreed. Why do *you* put your customers through this?
> >>
> >>
> >>> Some people prefer to keep their bent copy pf Windows rather than pay
> >>> the costs of all the time it takes to reinstall the whole thing. I've
> >>> known it to happen where they are quite happy to buy the proper, legal
> >>> product but not stand the costs of a copmlete format and reinstall.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> Again, why do *you* insist upon a format and clean installation?
> >>
> >>
> >>> Come on Microsoft - give the trade credit for trying to fight this
> >>> battle with you. Give us an added option in Activation procedures.
> >>
> >>
> >> Let's not blame Microsoft for *your* actions, eh?
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Do I have any support for this view?
> >>
> >>
> >> Certainly. From Microsoft. That's why the capability of performing a
> >> repair installation was built into the OS.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Bruce Chambers
> >
> > Can only Retail versions do a repair install, or can an OEM do one? Must
> > they be in the same language?
> >
> > Alias
>
>
> Can an OEM Home repair a cracked Pro?
>
> Alias
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Bruce Chambers]

Alias wrote:

>
>
> Can only Retail versions do a repair install, or can an OEM do one? Must
> they be in the same language?
>


Any real installation CD, regards of whether is's OEM or retail can be
used to perform a repair installation. Of course, the type of CD used
must "match" the type (Home vs. Pro, OEM vs. Retail, same language,
etc.) of license already installed on the target machine, so that there
will be no conflict between the Product Key of the license on the target
machine and the CD.

OEM Recovery/Restore CDs generally cannot be used to perform repair
installations, but a generic OEM CD should still be able to perform a
repair the OEM Product Key.

--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH

[Alias]

"Bruce Chambers" > wrote

> Alias wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Can only Retail versions do a repair install, or can an OEM do one? Must
>> they be in the same language?
>>
>
>
> Any real installation CD, regards of whether is's OEM or retail can be
> used to perform a repair installation. Of course, the type of CD used
> must "match" the type (Home vs. Pro, OEM vs. Retail, same language, etc.)
> of license already installed on the target machine, so that there will be
> no conflict between the Product Key of the license on the target machine
> and the CD.
>
> OEM Recovery/Restore CDs generally cannot be used to perform repair
> installations, but a generic OEM CD should still be able to perform a
> repair the OEM Product Key.
>
> --
>
> Bruce Chambers

Thank you Bruce, very clear and concise answer.

Alias

[Ron Martell]

"kurttrail" > wrote:

>
>Because a tool to just switch PKs would take a minute, and a repair
>install would take a hell of a lot longer.

A PK change utility is available.
http://www.webtree.ca/windowsxp/keyfinder.exe
Includes an option to change the existing product key to a valid one
without doing a reinstall. However the new product key must be from
the same version and type of Windows as the pirated key. For example,
if the install used the infamous "devils own" product key for a volume
license of XP Pro then the new key would also have to be from a volume
license version of XP Pro. A key for any version of XP Home, or one
for a retail or OEM version of XP Pro would not work.


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

"In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP"

[Ron Martell]

"Alias" > wrote:

>
>Can only Retail versions do a repair install, or can an OEM do one? Must
>they be in the same language?
>
>Alias
>

I do not believe you can switch languages by doing a repair install.

OEM versions can do a repair install, provided it is a full
installation CD and not a System Recovery disk. Additionally BIOS
Locked OEM versions, which includes most major brands, can only do a
repair install on the *original* OEM hardware or warranty replacements
thereof.

So if the owner of a BIOS locked OEM version of XP has to replace the
motherboard and the computer is out of warranty then unless he can
purchase an exact replacement motherboard from the manufacturer he may
be in trouble. The motherboard replacement will necessitate a repair
install, the BIOS locked OEM version will not activate other the
Internet because of the different hardware, and Microsoft will no
longer do telephone activations of BIOS locked OEM versions.

This is a recent change in activation procedures and policies and all
of the ramifications of it are not yet fully understood.


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

"In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP"

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 09:31:31 -0700, Bruce Chambers
>Roger Lemon wrote:

>> I build and repair computers and from time to time come across pirated copies
>> of XP. Some I refuse to touch but others, where people are genuinely
>> surprised that they have a bent copy, I will work on, subject to their buying
>> a legal copy.

>> I believe Microsoft should acknowledge and assist the trade in these matters
>> and make it easier for us to activate a new copy of XP rather than having to
>> format to destroy the old installation and reinstall everything from scratch.

Agreed. May improve the chances of techs following your line.

> Why are you having to format and reinstall?

1) Inter-edition issues

Typically the system will be one that needs only Home, but the warez
bunny used Pro instead. Can't install Home over Pro.

2) Intra-edition tribalism

Volume license vs. OEM vs. upgrade vs. retail; may find that the new
product key won't work on the existing install even though it's the
same OS, because it's a different license tribe. Recent changes to
product activation refer, and likely make things worse.

3) SP issues

This usually won't apply, if the newly-purchased OS is newer or same
SP level as what is installed. It did apply for several months,
during which MS motivated users to install SP2 while continuing to
ship SP1a as "new" product worth paying for. It's likely to apply all
over again when the next SP rolls around.

>> This is actually counter-productive.

> Agreed. Why do *you* put your customers through this?

Where the problem is the result of MS's design decisions, why does MS
put our customers through this?

>> Some people prefer to keep their bent
>> copy pf Windows rather than pay the costs of all the time it takes to
>> reinstall the whole thing.

I certainly would. Any tech who tries to foist a needless "just wipe
and reinstall" on me gets escorted out the building PDQ.

>> Come on Microsoft - give the trade credit for trying to fight this battle
>> with you. Give us an added option in Activation procedures.

> Let's not blame Microsoft for *your* actions, eh?

Let's not blame us for MS's (in)actions either.

If "just reinstall" is the "new darkness" of system maintenance, given
AutoChk, no mOS for formal malware cleanup, and the lack of cleaner
solutions to various known failure patterns - then how does someone
who bought XP Gold or SP1 generate a replacement SP2 OS CD so they can
boot RC or do a repair install over a fully-patched installation?

Not only does MS not provide for this, their license terms forbid it.
If I'm to walk the plank because I slipstreamed a replacement OS CD,
then hell, I might as well warez the thing and save the money I'm
accused of ripping off from MS.

>> Do I have any support for this view?

Aye

> Certainly. From Microsoft. That's why the capability of performing a
>repair installation was built into the OS.

And broken by SP2. An SP that breaks compatibility with your OS
installation CD must make provision for regenerating that CD; both as
part of the SP installation process, or after the fact as a new
Accessories, System Tools menu entry.

And if the user lacks the hardware to build a CDR, then a replacement
CD-ROM should be available, free of charge.

Remember, we are required to apply SPs to fix product defects; there's
already some questionable ethics in leveraging these defects (and thus
dependence on ongoing fixes) to increase license revenue.

Remember also that one of the reasons SP2 was such a ball-breaker, was
because it not only fixed security hassles, but also up-versioned a
number of subsystems (WMP, DirectX etc.) whether this was required for
security or not. This allows MS to reset future support baselines;
already, XP Gold is considered "old", and with it goes the obligation
to support those original versions of WMP, DirectX, IE and so on.



>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -
Tech Support: The guys who follow the
'Parade of New Products' with a shovel.
>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -

[kurttrail]

Ron Martell wrote:
> "kurttrail" > wrote:
>
>>
>> Because a tool to just switch PKs would take a minute, and a repair
>> install would take a hell of a lot longer.
>
> A PK change utility is available.
> http://www.webtree.ca/windowsxp/keyfinder.exe
> Includes an option to change the existing product key to a valid one
> without doing a reinstall. However the new product key must be from
> the same version and type of Windows as the pirated key. For example,
> if the install used the infamous "devils own" product key for a volume
> license of XP Pro then the new key would also have to be from a volume
> license version of XP Pro. A key for any version of XP Home, or one
> for a retail or OEM version of XP Pro would not work.

Yeah, I meant a utility to change a pirated VL install into a valid
OEM/Retail one.

The pirated VL version of XP is the most common pirated version
unscrupulous OEM venders use.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"