Processor Speed

[md_bluehair1]

I'm considering upgrading to XP. I need to find if my processor speed meets
XP requirements. Does anyone know how to display processor speed for my
system on Win98SE ?

[Bert Kinney]

CPU-Z
http://www.cpuid.org/cpuz.php

--
Regards,
Bert Kinney MS-MVP Shell/User
http://bertk.mvps.org

md_bluehair1 wrote:
> I'm considering upgrading to XP. I need to find if my
> processor speed meets XP requirements. Does anyone know
> how to display processor speed for my system on Win98SE ?

[Ken Blake]

In ,
md_bluehair1 > typed:

> I'm considering upgrading to XP. I need to find if my processor
> speed
> meets XP requirements. Does anyone know how to display
> processor
> speed for my system on Win98SE ?


Two points:

1. Probably much more significant than processor speed is the
amount of RAM you have.

2. If you're looking a the Microsoft official requirements for XP
(233MHz processor and 64MB of RAM), you need to be aware that
those minimums are not sufficient to run XP at anything close to
acceptable speed.

Don't consider upgrading to XP unless you have at the very least
a 350-400MHz processor, 256MB of RAM, and a 10GB hard drive.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup

[Gerry Cornell]

Ken

256MB of RAM is minimal!

--=20


Regards.

Gerry

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FCA

Stourport, Worcs, England
Enquire, plan and execute.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"Ken Blake" > wrote in message =
...
> In ,
> md_bluehair1 > typed:
>=20
>> I'm considering upgrading to XP. I need to find if my processor=20
>> speed
>> meets XP requirements. Does anyone know how to display=20
>> processor
>> speed for my system on Win98SE ?
>=20
>=20
> Two points:
>=20
> 1. Probably much more significant than processor speed is the=20
> amount of RAM you have.
>=20
> 2. If you're looking a the Microsoft official requirements for XP=20
> (233MHz processor and 64MB of RAM), you need to be aware that=20
> those minimums are not sufficient to run XP at anything close to=20
> acceptable speed.
>=20
> Don't consider upgrading to XP unless you have at the very least=20
> a 350-400MHz processor, 256MB of RAM, and a 10GB hard drive.
>=20
> --=20
> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
> Please reply to the newsgroup=20
>=20
>

[Ken Blake]

In ,
Gerry Cornell > typed:

> Ken
>
> 256MB of RAM is minimal!


Isn't that what I said? I said "at the very least."

But it very much depends on what apps you run. For some people
who don't run very demanding apps, 256MB is enough to keep them
from using the page file much and is adequate for their needs.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup




> "Ken Blake" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In ,
>> md_bluehair1 > typed:
>>
>>> I'm considering upgrading to XP. I need to find if my
>>> processor
>>> speed
>>> meets XP requirements. Does anyone know how to display
>>> processor
>>> speed for my system on Win98SE ?
>>
>>
>> Two points:
>>
>> 1. Probably much more significant than processor speed is the
>> amount of RAM you have.
>>
>> 2. If you're looking a the Microsoft official requirements for
>> XP
>> (233MHz processor and 64MB of RAM), you need to be aware that
>> those minimums are not sufficient to run XP at anything close
>> to
>> acceptable speed.
>>
>> Don't consider upgrading to XP unless you have at the very
>> least
>> a 350-400MHz processor, 256MB of RAM, and a 10GB hard drive.
>>
>> --
>> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
>> Please reply to the newsgroup

[Jim Macklin]

And remember you can buy a new Dell for $300 with XP and
some software and a new warranty. It will cost you at least
$100 for an upgrade XP CD.


To see exactly what you have now, download and run the Bel
Arc Advisor www.belarc.com or EVEREST from www.lavalys.com


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm



"Ken Blake" > wrote in
message ...
| In
,
| md_bluehair1 >
typed:
|
| > I'm considering upgrading to XP. I need to find if my
processor
| > speed
| > meets XP requirements. Does anyone know how to display
| > processor
| > speed for my system on Win98SE ?
|
|
| Two points:
|
| 1. Probably much more significant than processor speed is
the
| amount of RAM you have.
|
| 2. If you're looking a the Microsoft official requirements
for XP
| (233MHz processor and 64MB of RAM), you need to be aware
that
| those minimums are not sufficient to run XP at anything
close to
| acceptable speed.
|
| Don't consider upgrading to XP unless you have at the very
least
| a 350-400MHz processor, 256MB of RAM, and a 10GB hard
drive.
|
| --
| Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
| Please reply to the newsgroup
|
|

[Ken Blake]

In ,
Jim Macklin > typed:

> And remember you can buy a new Dell for $300 with XP and
> some software and a new warranty. It will cost you at least
> $100 for an upgrade XP CD.


Yes, an excellent point! It hardly pays to upgrade.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup



> "Ken Blake" > wrote in
> message ...
>> In
> ,
>> md_bluehair1 > typed:
>>
>>> I'm considering upgrading to XP. I need to find if my
>>> processor
>>> speed
>>> meets XP requirements. Does anyone know how to display
>>> processor
>>> speed for my system on Win98SE ?
>>
>>
>> Two points:
>>
>> 1. Probably much more significant than processor speed is the
>> amount of RAM you have.
>>
>> 2. If you're looking a the Microsoft official requirements for
>> XP
>> (233MHz processor and 64MB of RAM), you need to be aware that
>> those minimums are not sufficient to run XP at anything close
>> to
>> acceptable speed.
>>
>> Don't consider upgrading to XP unless you have at the very
>> least
>> a 350-400MHz processor, 256MB of RAM, and a 10GB hard drive.
>>
>> --
>> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
>> Please reply to the newsgroup

[DanS]

"Ken Blake" > wrote in news:ec
:

> In ,
> Jim Macklin > typed:
>
>> And remember you can buy a new Dell for $300 with XP and
>> some software and a new warranty. It will cost you at least
>> $100 for an upgrade XP CD.
>
>
> Yes, an excellent point! It hardly pays to upgrade.
>

Yes, if you want a VERY low budget PC.

The one I use at work started as one of those deals. P4/2.8G, 256M RAM,
17" CRT, CDrw for $299.

Adding 256M of RAM, a floppy (since it didn't come with that), and upping
the monitor to a 19" brought the total up to $600-something. I'm still
stuck with the built-in graphics though, as there isn't even an AGP socket
on the MB. Oh yeah, and no speakers either.

[Jim Macklin]

Remember he is moving from an old W98 era machine, maybe
200-600 MHz with a 100 MHz FSB. Any current budget computer
will have better graphics than that probably has. The
question is always, what do you want and how much do you
want to spend. But it is certainly an option that should be
considered.


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm



"DanS" > wrote in
message ...
| "Ken Blake" > wrote in
news:ec
| :
|
| > In ,
| > Jim Macklin >
typed:
| >
| >> And remember you can buy a new Dell for $300 with XP
and
| >> some software and a new warranty. It will cost you at
least
| >> $100 for an upgrade XP CD.
| >
| >
| > Yes, an excellent point! It hardly pays to upgrade.
| >
|
| Yes, if you want a VERY low budget PC.
|
| The one I use at work started as one of those deals.
P4/2.8G, 256M RAM,
| 17" CRT, CDrw for $299.
|
| Adding 256M of RAM, a floppy (since it didn't come with
that), and upping
| the monitor to a 19" brought the total up to
$600-something. I'm still
| stuck with the built-in graphics though, as there isn't
even an AGP socket
| on the MB. Oh yeah, and no speakers either.
|
|

[Ken Blake]

In ,
DanS > typed:

> "Ken Blake" > wrote in news:ec
> :
>
>> In ,
>> Jim Macklin > typed:
>>
>>> And remember you can buy a new Dell for $300 with XP and
>>> some software and a new warranty. It will cost you at least
>>> $100 for an upgrade XP CD.
>>
>>
>> Yes, an excellent point! It hardly pays to upgrade.
>>
>
> Yes, if you want a VERY low budget PC.


I think you have this backward. Jim's point was that his 98-era
computer is already a very minimal PC. Spending $100 for an
operating system upgrade will leave him with that very minimal
PC. Spending only $200 more will get him a much more modern, much
better equipped computer, and makes economic sense in most
situations. Yes it's still an entry-level machine, but it's much
better than what he would have if he just bought a new operating
system and kept his old computer.

Spening more money than $300 and getting better quality, specs,
etc. may also make sense for some people, but that's a completely
different issue from Jim'ssuggestion.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup


>
> The one I use at work started as one of those deals. P4/2.8G,
> 256M
> RAM, 17" CRT, CDrw for $299.
>
> Adding 256M of RAM, a floppy (since it didn't come with that),
> and
> upping the monitor to a 19" brought the total up to
> $600-something.
> I'm still stuck with the built-in graphics though, as there
> isn't
> even an AGP socket on the MB. Oh yeah, and no speakers either.

[DanS]

"Ken Blake" > wrote in
:

> In ,
> DanS > typed:
>
>> "Ken Blake" > wrote in news:ec
>> :
>>
>>> In ,
>>> Jim Macklin > typed:
>>>
>>>> And remember you can buy a new Dell for $300 with XP and
>>>> some software and a new warranty. It will cost you at least
>>>> $100 for an upgrade XP CD.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, an excellent point! It hardly pays to upgrade.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, if you want a VERY low budget PC.
>
>
> I think you have this backward. Jim's point was that his 98-era
> computer is already a very minimal PC. Spending $100 for an
> operating system upgrade will leave him with that very minimal
> PC. Spending only $200 more will get him a much more modern, much
> better equipped computer, and makes economic sense in most
> situations. Yes it's still an entry-level machine, but it's much
> better than what he would have if he just bought a new operating
> system and kept his old computer.
>
> Spening more money than $300 and getting better quality, specs,
> etc. may also make sense for some people, but that's a completely
> different issue from Jim'suggestion.
>

No, I don't have anything backward's. I was referring to a new computer,
the $300 Dell's, all the cheapies. These are indeed very low budget
machines.

Also, I agree that these are good, as they are sold, for a lot of people.

So to finish off my OP (which I didn't before because.........well,
laziness took over)........

These are not good, as they are sold, for NEWER games....any of the
Unreal, Rainbow Six, and the like genre of 3D games.

These are not good, as they are sold, for video editing or any serious
number-crunching, engineering simulations, CPU/RAM/HD INTENSIVE stuff.

These are not good if you have/expect to use more than 2 (or 3)
additional PCI cards.

They ARE good for internet use, simple games, and your basic office type
applications.

[Ken Blake]

In ,
DanS > typed:

> "Ken Blake" > wrote in
> :
>
>> In ,
>> DanS > typed:
>>
>>> "Ken Blake" > wrote in
>>> news:ec
>>> :
>>>
>>>> In ,
>>>> Jim Macklin > typed:
>>>>
>>>>> And remember you can buy a new Dell for $300 with XP and
>>>>> some software and a new warranty. It will cost you at
>>>>> least
>>>>> $100 for an upgrade XP CD.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, an excellent point! It hardly pays to upgrade.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, if you want a VERY low budget PC.
>>
>>
>> I think you have this backward. Jim's point was that his
>> 98-era
>> computer is already a very minimal PC. Spending $100 for an
>> operating system upgrade will leave him with that very minimal
>> PC. Spending only $200 more will get him a much more modern,
>> much
>> better equipped computer, and makes economic sense in most
>> situations. Yes it's still an entry-level machine, but it's
>> much
>> better than what he would have if he just bought a new
>> operating
>> system and kept his old computer.
>>
>> Spening more money than $300 and getting better quality,
>> specs,
>> etc. may also make sense for some people, but that's a
>> completely
>> different issue from Jim'suggestion.
>>
>
> No, I don't have anything backward's. I was referring to a new
> computer, the $300 Dell's, all the cheapies. These are indeed
> very
> low budget machines.


Of course. That's not the point. The point is that cheap as they
are, they are a lot better than what he's coming from.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup


>
> Also, I agree that these are good, as they are sold, for a lot
> of
> people.
>
> So to finish off my OP (which I didn't before
> because.........well,
> laziness took over)........
>
> These are not good, as they are sold, for NEWER games....any of
> the
> Unreal, Rainbow Six, and the like genre of 3D games.
>
> These are not good, as they are sold, for video editing or any
> serious
> number-crunching, engineering simulations, CPU/RAM/HD INTENSIVE
> stuff.
>
> These are not good if you have/expect to use more than 2 (or 3)
> additional PCI cards.
>
> They ARE good for internet use, simple games, and your basic
> office
> type applications.

[Jim Macklin]

Thanks

"Ken Blake" > wrote in
message ...
| In ,
| DanS > typed:
|
| > "Ken Blake" > wrote in
news:ec
| > :
| >
| >> In ,
| >> Jim Macklin >
typed:
| >>
| >>> And remember you can buy a new Dell for $300 with XP
and
| >>> some software and a new warranty. It will cost you at
least
| >>> $100 for an upgrade XP CD.
| >>
| >>
| >> Yes, an excellent point! It hardly pays to upgrade.
| >>
| >
| > Yes, if you want a VERY low budget PC.
|
|
| I think you have this backward. Jim's point was that his
98-era
| computer is already a very minimal PC. Spending $100 for
an
| operating system upgrade will leave him with that very
minimal
| PC. Spending only $200 more will get him a much more
modern, much
| better equipped computer, and makes economic sense in most
| situations. Yes it's still an entry-level machine, but
it's much
| better than what he would have if he just bought a new
operating
| system and kept his old computer.
|
| Spening more money than $300 and getting better quality,
specs,
| etc. may also make sense for some people, but that's a
completely
| different issue from Jim'ssuggestion.
|
| --
| Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
| Please reply to the newsgroup
|
|
| >
| > The one I use at work started as one of those deals.
P4/2.8G,
| > 256M
| > RAM, 17" CRT, CDrw for $299.
| >
| > Adding 256M of RAM, a floppy (since it didn't come with
that),
| > and
| > upping the monitor to a 19" brought the total up to
| > $600-something.
| > I'm still stuck with the built-in graphics though, as
there
| > isn't
| > even an AGP socket on the MB. Oh yeah, and no speakers
either.
|
|

[Ken Blake]

In ,
Jim Macklin > typed:

> Thanks


You're welcome, Jim.


--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup


>
> "Ken Blake" > wrote in
> message ...
>> In ,
>> DanS > typed:
>>
>>> "Ken Blake" > wrote in
>>> news:ec
>>> :
>>>
>>>> In ,
>>>> Jim Macklin > typed:
>>>>
>>>>> And remember you can buy a new Dell for $300 with XP and
>>>>> some software and a new warranty. It will cost you at
>>>>> least
>>>>> $100 for an upgrade XP CD.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, an excellent point! It hardly pays to upgrade.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, if you want a VERY low budget PC.
>>
>>
>> I think you have this backward. Jim's point was that his
>> 98-era
>> computer is already a very minimal PC. Spending $100 for an
>> operating system upgrade will leave him with that very minimal
>> PC. Spending only $200 more will get him a much more modern,
>> much
>> better equipped computer, and makes economic sense in most
>> situations. Yes it's still an entry-level machine, but it's
>> much
>> better than what he would have if he just bought a new
>> operating
>> system and kept his old computer.
>>
>> Spening more money than $300 and getting better quality,
>> specs,
>> etc. may also make sense for some people, but that's a
>> completely
>> different issue from Jim'ssuggestion.
>>
>> --
>> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
>> Please reply to the newsgroup
>>
>>
>>>
>>> The one I use at work started as one of those deals. P4/2.8G,
>>> 256M
>>> RAM, 17" CRT, CDrw for $299.
>>>
>>> Adding 256M of RAM, a floppy (since it didn't come with
>>> that),
>>> and
>>> upping the monitor to a 19" brought the total up to
>>> $600-something.
>>> I'm still stuck with the built-in graphics though, as there
>>> isn't
>>> even an AGP socket on the MB. Oh yeah, and no speakers
>>> either.

[Jim Macklin]

In the old days, about 5-10 years ago, a cheap computer cost
$2,000 and had 16 MB, maybe 32 MB of RAM, a 500 MB hard
drive and 4 or maybe 8 MB of video. The FSB was 33 or maybe
66 MHz and the CPU was a "blazing" 200 MHz. Even if you had
a 433 MHz CPU, everything else was slow, small and limited.
There are people out there who could really use a current
cheap Dell (any brand really) that is now a Celeron 2.4 GHz
or maybe even a P4, 40 GB hard drive and 256 MB RAM PC 2700
with even that quite useful Intel Extreme (onboard) that can
use 64 MB of RAM for graphics. It won't run any of the
intensive games, but it will surf the web, do email, run
OFFICE, do school work, teach you about computers. Too many
people base their computer selection on the magazine review
for "best" which means it will play DoomStarQuest VII, has
RAID with 5 SATA 500 GB drives, a DVD2+-RW drive, 2 GB RAM
DDR2, a GB Ethernet, and a 25 inch LCD monitor and 7.1
speakers.

Salesmen get paid commissions or raises based on sales,
there is a bigger commission on a $5,000 gaming machine than
a $299 starter machine.

Today's starter is better than any computer from the W95-98
era. It doesn't make any sense to update a machine that is
older than say am 845 chips set, and then only if you are
just upping the CPU by at least a Gig or adding $50 of RAM
or a $40 hard drive. Just my opinion.

Just to make the point again, to upgrade an W95-98 era
machine to run XP well will require...
more RAM and a new mobo/CPU, $150-300;a new hard drive at
7200 rpm-$40+, a new power supply for the new mobo; and a
new oem or retail XP CD $100. That does not get you a new
8x AGP or a PCIe graphics card, a new monitor or any
warranty coverage.

If all you want to do is drive in city traffic to get a sack
of bananas, a Yugo will do, if you desire to be competitive
at Talladega or Indy you need a million bucks a week.


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm



"Ken Blake" > wrote in
message ...
| In ,
| Jim Macklin > typed:
|
| > Thanks
|
|
| You're welcome, Jim.
|
|
| --
| Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
| Please reply to the newsgroup
|
|
| >
| > "Ken Blake" > wrote in
| > message ...
| >> In ,
| >> DanS > typed:
| >>
| >>> "Ken Blake" > wrote
in
| >>> news:ec
| >>> :
| >>>
| >>>> In ,
| >>>> Jim Macklin >
typed:
| >>>>
| >>>>> And remember you can buy a new Dell for $300 with XP
and
| >>>>> some software and a new warranty. It will cost you
at
| >>>>> least
| >>>>> $100 for an upgrade XP CD.
| >>>>
| >>>>
| >>>> Yes, an excellent point! It hardly pays to upgrade.
| >>>>
| >>>
| >>> Yes, if you want a VERY low budget PC.
| >>
| >>
| >> I think you have this backward. Jim's point was that
his
| >> 98-era
| >> computer is already a very minimal PC. Spending $100
for an
| >> operating system upgrade will leave him with that very
minimal
| >> PC. Spending only $200 more will get him a much more
modern,
| >> much
| >> better equipped computer, and makes economic sense in
most
| >> situations. Yes it's still an entry-level machine, but
it's
| >> much
| >> better than what he would have if he just bought a new
| >> operating
| >> system and kept his old computer.
| >>
| >> Spening more money than $300 and getting better
quality,
| >> specs,
| >> etc. may also make sense for some people, but that's a
| >> completely
| >> different issue from Jim'ssuggestion.
| >>
| >> --
| >> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
| >> Please reply to the newsgroup
| >>
| >>
| >>>
| >>> The one I use at work started as one of those deals.
P4/2.8G,
| >>> 256M
| >>> RAM, 17" CRT, CDrw for $299.
| >>>
| >>> Adding 256M of RAM, a floppy (since it didn't come
with
| >>> that),
| >>> and
| >>> upping the monitor to a 19" brought the total up to
| >>> $600-something.
| >>> I'm still stuck with the built-in graphics though, as
there
| >>> isn't
| >>> even an AGP socket on the MB. Oh yeah, and no speakers
| >>> either.
|
|

[DanS]

"Ken Blake" > wrote in
:


>>>
>>
>> No, I don't have anything backward's. I was referring to a new
>> computer, the $300 Dell's, all the cheapies. These are indeed
>> very
>> low budget machines.
>
>
> Of course. That's not the point. The point is that cheap as they
> are, they are a lot better than what he's coming from.
>

Yes I agree. Again. I was just pointing out what it is good and not good
for.

BEFORE A PURCHASE is made.

Maybe the OP didn't play 3D games on his 98 box because it wasn't powerful
enough. So he buys a $300 Dell, only to find he STILL can't play new 3D
games because of the built-in video.

In truth, I have steered many people towards the cheapy Dells when they ask
me if they can upgrade their existing PC.

[Uncle Joe]

A few points. Yes, a cheap new Dell would be a step up
from a Win98 era machine. It wouldn't be able to handle
heavy computations or graphics, but it would offer a user
a vast improvement over his/her earlier PC models. The
user would have to face and accept the fact that expansion
capabilities would be retarded on the new cheap PC.

Secondly, I haven't seen a $5000 gaming machine in years.
If one acquires a $5K machine, one's typically going to
build it himself/herself. And then he/she is likely to have paid
way too much for components.

Thirdly, there a serious misconception about PC salesman's
commissions. The average PC salesman gets 1 or 1.5% on
commission on a PC, and then only if he sells a customer
a TAP (Technology Assurance Program)--aka as an extended
warranty. If one fails to sell the extended warranty, one loses
the commission. By selling the warranty program, one collects
the meager commission and a small cut of the warranty program's
price. Turnover in PC retail sales is extremely high because
once people get over the thrill of being in a high-tech field,
they must confront the fact that they're starving to death. It's
not worth it to put up with ultra-cheap urealistic customers
who want discounts to bring a $900 PC down to $300.
It's not going to happen. There's no margin left in PC, printer,
and monitor sales anymore. Three years ago, one bought
a solid, competent HP or Espson printer for $395-500.
Now, one can buy a fast Espon printer with built-in scanner
for $100. Virtually no margin. The stores make their profits
off ink cartridge and paper sales.

At my chain, we would have had to turn off the lights if we
depended on PC sales to produce profits. The markup is
in accessories, books, and software. You absolutely
wouldn't believe the markup in a simple USB cable.
PC sales is a necessary evil in computer stores. One
sells a PC to a customer and then sits back and
watches that same customer coming in to buy cables,
speakers, graphics cards, more RAM, and so forth.
That's where the profits come from. They're small profits
but they add up fast.

Look our in the parking lot. You won't see computer
salesmen driving new cars. They work in the stores
because they truly love doing what they do.

I despised selling extended warranties because (1) I think
they're a big rip-off, and (2) I've seen used parts cannibalized
from other broken PCs being used to repair my customers'
PCs. "How do you know that used hard drive works?" I'd
be told to not worry about it.

Since I found it difficult to sell a $600 three-year extended
warranty for a $600 PC, I literally starved. The stress was
enormous. We had one angry male customer come into the
store raging like a bull. He pushed a female salesperson,
and I decked him. He learned a few manners that day.

One of the things we were forbidden to do was provide
technical support after the sale. After all, we sold a
telephone service support program. Of course, customers
pestered us continuously to provide them with all sorts of
technical support--from replacing their motherboards
to how to create family genealogy charts. Nobody wanted
to be rude, but we couldn't be selling if we were tied up
by insistent customers who wanted to know how to
create icons. I adored the customers who came with
problems with the Dell PCs. We never sold Dell. And
you want me to waste my time on you? NOT!

And at my store, we processed an average of over 50
applications for employment weekly. When a salesman
such as myself got burned out, there were always eager
beavers waiting to take one's place. I had a heart attack
in the store. As the EMTs were rolling me out on a
stretcher, the sales manager fired me for low sales that
week ($40K) and for screwing up his schedule.

Don't ever make the mistake of thinking PC salesmen make
a good living. Many are below the poverty line. When you
see a $700 PC in a chain computer store, the store's markup
is around $20-35 bucks. So the salesman may get a $1-3
commission off of a new PC sale.

There are many assumptions about PC sales that are simply
not true. Such assumptions used to be true in the days of
$2000-4000 PCs. That was then; this is now.

> Salesmen get paid commissions or raises based on sales,
> there is a bigger commission on a $5,000 gaming machine than
> a $299 starter machine.
>
> Today's starter is better than any computer from the W95-98
> era. It doesn't make any sense to update a machine that is
> older than say am 845 chips set, and then only if you are
> just upping the CPU by at least a Gig or adding $50 of RAM
> or a $40 hard drive. Just my opinion.
>
> --
> The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
> But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
> some support
> http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
>
>
>
> "Ken Blake" > wrote in
> message ...
> | In ,
> | Jim Macklin > typed:
> |
> | > Thanks
> |
> |
> | You're welcome, Jim.
> |
> |
> | --
> | Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
> | Please reply to the newsgroup
> |
> |
> | >
> | > "Ken Blake" > wrote in
> | > message ...
> | >> In ,
> | >> DanS > typed:
> | >>
> | >>> "Ken Blake" > wrote
> in
> | >>> news:ec
> | >>> :
> | >>>
> | >>>> In ,
> | >>>> Jim Macklin >
> typed:
> | >>>>
> | >>>>> And remember you can buy a new Dell for $300 with XP
> and
> | >>>>> some software and a new warranty. It will cost you
> at
> | >>>>> least
> | >>>>> $100 for an upgrade XP CD.
> | >>>>
> | >>>>
> | >>>> Yes, an excellent point! It hardly pays to upgrade.
> | >>>>
> | >>>
> | >>> Yes, if you want a VERY low budget PC.
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> I think you have this backward. Jim's point was that
> his
> | >> 98-era
> | >> computer is already a very minimal PC. Spending $100
> for an
> | >> operating system upgrade will leave him with that very
> minimal
> | >> PC. Spending only $200 more will get him a much more
> modern,
> | >> much
> | >> better equipped computer, and makes economic sense in
> most
> | >> situations. Yes it's still an entry-level machine, but
> it's
> | >> much
> | >> better than what he would have if he just bought a new
> | >> operating
> | >> system and kept his old computer.
> | >>
> | >> Spening more money than $300 and getting better
> quality,
> | >> specs,
> | >> etc. may also make sense for some people, but that's a
> | >> completely
> | >> different issue from Jim'ssuggestion.
> | >>
> | >> --
> | >> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
> | >> Please reply to the newsgroup
> | >>
> | >>
> | >>>
> | >>> The one I use at work started as one of those deals.
> P4/2.8G,
> | >>> 256M
> | >>> RAM, 17" CRT, CDrw for $299.
> | >>>
> | >>> Adding 256M of RAM, a floppy (since it didn't come
> with
> | >>> that),
> | >>> and
> | >>> upping the monitor to a 19" brought the total up to
> | >>> $600-something.
> | >>> I'm still stuck with the built-in graphics though, as
> there
> | >>> isn't
> | >>> even an AGP socket on the MB. Oh yeah, and no speakers
> | >>> either.
> |
> |
>
>

[Jim Macklin]

Several companies sell fancy $5,000 bracket machines, that
are basically a $2,000 computer with a fancy case and custom
automotive paint on the case, kybd and mouse. The inside is
very well laid out and will have all the custom assembled
touches.

All the chain stores, whether Wal*Mart or CompUSA follow the
same patterns, to control costs. Volume equals profits and
profits are essential to stay in business. Margins are
tight. I was cleaning up some old PC World magazine stacks
and the headline article on the cover (Oct 1999) was
Gigantic Hard Drives. How big is gigantic? 27 GB at a
budget price for the best buy Maxtor of $350. Compare that
to the price of a small 80 GB drive today, you might be able
to buy enough 80 GB drives to setup two RAID array computers
with 4 drives each.
How much computing power you need depend on what you do with
the computer. If all you do is surf the web and do some
school work any computer sold today will do. But if you do
home movies and want to download every MP3 file on the
Internet, you need a lot of storage and for the video
editing the fastest CPU and RAM you can get. You also
probably will want more than one computer and will have a
higher budget.
All it takes to build your own computer is a few square feet
of work space, $10 worth of tools (although I prefer to use
better quality tools) consisting of a #1 and #2 Phillips and
maybe a 1/4 inch socket set or nutdrivers. You can order
parts from many reliable sources and get technical advice
on-line and from the print magazines. The home builder is
the beneficiary of the billions of dollars spent on design
and research over the past 25 years. Parts are standard and
generally any part will work from any maker with any other
makers part. But you can't build your own and save money
because you aren't building 1,000 units a day and buying
parts by the truck load.
People knock on-board graphics because it isn't as fast as
the dedicated AGP or now PCIe cards. But unless you are in
need of screen resolutions at the top and very fast refresh
rate, there is nothing wrong with on-board graphics that may
use as much as 64 MB of system RAM. Since having 512 or
more of RAM doesn't cost $5,000-$10,000 anymore, buying a
very powerful machine is very easy.
Quality and warranty depend on testing at all levels of
production. Labor cost [time] to assemble a $300 machine
are the same for a $2,000 machine since the same number of
parts go in the box.
Software is very labor intensive but once it has been
released in the final version, the cost to reproduce is very
low. But the cost to revise and revise is very high. But
as Mr. Gates can attest, the profits are very good. [Mr.
gates took a $3,000,000,000 stock dividend recently on his
billion shares]
Your robot built car is cheap and runs for 250,000 miles,
those classic cars from the 50's, 60s and 70s might run
100,000 miles and when adjusted for inflation, were far more
expensive than today's cars. Do you want a site built home?
Hire a crew of cement workers, carpenters, plumbers and
electricians, to say nothing about the roofers and your
small home can cost well over $100,000, maybe $250,000. A
factory built modular home may cost half that but be just as
nice once assembled on site. Even cheaper are the trailer
homes that roll in on their own wheels and put together.
And a 15 foot camper trailer is real deluxe if you are
otherwise homeless [hurricane, tornado or flood].

Car mechanics, flight instructors and no doubt even porn
stars, burn out after doing the same thing day after day,
hour after hour. Even Hollywood's top stars suffer from
work pressure which may explain the drug addiction and sex
fetish we hear about in the tabloids. The boss and owner at
a small retail store probably [certainly] feels the same
pressure, he has to feed his own family and also meet the
salaries of his employees every day. Most employer have to
deal with workers educated by the public schools which means
they can't add, can't spell but expect "gold stars and happy
faces" just for showing up close to on time.

Now for something a little lighter...
While riding a bus, a blonde was reading the newspaper and
the headline
blared,

12 Brazilian Soldiers Killed in Combat.
She shook her head at the sad news, then turned to the
stranger sitting next to her and asked, "About how many is a
brazilian?"




--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm



"Uncle Joe" <Uncle > wrote in message
...
|A few points. Yes, a cheap new Dell would be a step up
| from a Win98 era machine. It wouldn't be able to handle
| heavy computations or graphics, but it would offer a user
| a vast improvement over his/her earlier PC models. The
| user would have to face and accept the fact that expansion
| capabilities would be retarded on the new cheap PC.
|
| Secondly, I haven't seen a $5000 gaming machine in years.
| If one acquires a $5K machine, one's typically going to
| build it himself/herself. And then he/she is likely to
have paid
| way too much for components.
|
| Thirdly, there a serious misconception about PC salesman's
| commissions. The average PC salesman gets 1 or 1.5% on
| commission on a PC, and then only if he sells a customer
| a TAP (Technology Assurance Program)--aka as an extended
| warranty. If one fails to sell the extended warranty, one
loses
| the commission. By selling the warranty program, one
collects
| the meager commission and a small cut of the warranty
program's
| price. Turnover in PC retail sales is extremely high
because
| once people get over the thrill of being in a high-tech
field,
| they must confront the fact that they're starving to
death. It's
| not worth it to put up with ultra-cheap urealistic
customers
| who want discounts to bring a $900 PC down to $300.
| It's not going to happen. There's no margin left in PC,
printer,
| and monitor sales anymore. Three years ago, one bought
| a solid, competent HP or Espson printer for $395-500.
| Now, one can buy a fast Espon printer with built-in
scanner
| for $100. Virtually no margin. The stores make their
profits
| off ink cartridge and paper sales.
|
| At my chain, we would have had to turn off the lights if
we
| depended on PC sales to produce profits. The markup is
| in accessories, books, and software. You absolutely
| wouldn't believe the markup in a simple USB cable.
| PC sales is a necessary evil in computer stores. One
| sells a PC to a customer and then sits back and
| watches that same customer coming in to buy cables,
| speakers, graphics cards, more RAM, and so forth.
| That's where the profits come from. They're small profits
| but they add up fast.
|
| Look our in the parking lot. You won't see computer
| salesmen driving new cars. They work in the stores
| because they truly love doing what they do.
|
| I despised selling extended warranties because (1) I think
| they're a big rip-off, and (2) I've seen used parts
cannibalized
| from other broken PCs being used to repair my customers'
| PCs. "How do you know that used hard drive works?" I'd
| be told to not worry about it.
|
| Since I found it difficult to sell a $600 three-year
extended
| warranty for a $600 PC, I literally starved. The stress
was
| enormous. We had one angry male customer come into the
| store raging like a bull. He pushed a female salesperson,
| and I decked him. He learned a few manners that day.
|
| One of the things we were forbidden to do was provide
| technical support after the sale. After all, we sold a
| telephone service support program. Of course, customers
| pestered us continuously to provide them with all sorts of
| technical support--from replacing their motherboards
| to how to create family genealogy charts. Nobody wanted
| to be rude, but we couldn't be selling if we were tied up
| by insistent customers who wanted to know how to
| create icons. I adored the customers who came with
| problems with the Dell PCs. We never sold Dell. And
| you want me to waste my time on you? NOT!
|
| And at my store, we processed an average of over 50
| applications for employment weekly. When a salesman
| such as myself got burned out, there were always eager
| beavers waiting to take one's place. I had a heart attack
| in the store. As the EMTs were rolling me out on a
| stretcher, the sales manager fired me for low sales that
| week ($40K) and for screwing up his schedule.
|
| Don't ever make the mistake of thinking PC salesmen make
| a good living. Many are below the poverty line. When you
| see a $700 PC in a chain computer store, the store's
markup
| is around $20-35 bucks. So the salesman may get a $1-3
| commission off of a new PC sale.
|
| There are many assumptions about PC sales that are simply
| not true. Such assumptions used to be true in the days of
| $2000-4000 PCs. That was then; this is now.
|
| > Salesmen get paid commissions or raises based on sales,
| > there is a bigger commission on a $5,000 gaming machine
than
| > a $299 starter machine.
| >
| > Today's starter is better than any computer from the
W95-98
| > era. It doesn't make any sense to update a machine that
is
| > older than say am 845 chips set, and then only if you
are
| > just upping the CPU by at least a Gig or adding $50 of
RAM
| > or a $40 hard drive. Just my opinion.
| >
| > --
| > The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
| > But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
| > some support
| > http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
| >
| >
| >
| > "Ken Blake" > wrote in
| > message ...
| > | In ,
| > | Jim Macklin >
typed:
| > |
| > | > Thanks
| > |
| > |
| > | You're welcome, Jim.
| > |
| > |
| > | --
| > | Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
| > | Please reply to the newsgroup
| > |
| > |
| > | >
| > | > "Ken Blake" > wrote
in
| > | > message ...
| > | >> In ,
| > | >> DanS >
typed:
| > | >>
| > | >>> "Ken Blake" >
wrote
| > in
| > | >>> news:ec
| > | >>> :
| > | >>>
| > | >>>> In ,
| > | >>>> Jim Macklin
>
| > typed:
| > | >>>>
| > | >>>>> And remember you can buy a new Dell for $300
with XP
| > and
| > | >>>>> some software and a new warranty. It will cost
you
| > at
| > | >>>>> least
| > | >>>>> $100 for an upgrade XP CD.
| > | >>>>
| > | >>>>
| > | >>>> Yes, an excellent point! It hardly pays to
upgrade.
| > | >>>>
| > | >>>
| > | >>> Yes, if you want a VERY low budget PC.
| > | >>
| > | >>
| > | >> I think you have this backward. Jim's point was
that
| > his
| > | >> 98-era
| > | >> computer is already a very minimal PC. Spending
$100
| > for an
| > | >> operating system upgrade will leave him with that
very
| > minimal
| > | >> PC. Spending only $200 more will get him a much
more
| > modern,
| > | >> much
| > | >> better equipped computer, and makes economic sense
in
| > most
| > | >> situations. Yes it's still an entry-level machine,
but
| > it's
| > | >> much
| > | >> better than what he would have if he just bought a
new
| > | >> operating
| > | >> system and kept his old computer.
| > | >>
| > | >> Spening more money than $300 and getting better
| > quality,
| > | >> specs,
| > | >> etc. may also make sense for some people, but
that's a
| > | >> completely
| > | >> different issue from Jim'ssuggestion.
| > | >>
| > | >> --
| > | >> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
| > | >> Please reply to the newsgroup
| > | >>
| > | >>
| > | >>>
| > | >>> The one I use at work started as one of those
deals.
| > P4/2.8G,
| > | >>> 256M
| > | >>> RAM, 17" CRT, CDrw for $299.
| > | >>>
| > | >>> Adding 256M of RAM, a floppy (since it didn't come
| > with
| > | >>> that),
| > | >>> and
| > | >>> upping the monitor to a 19" brought the total up
to
| > | >>> $600-something.
| > | >>> I'm still stuck with the built-in graphics though,
as
| > there
| > | >>> isn't
| > | >>> even an AGP socket on the MB. Oh yeah, and no
speakers
| > | >>> either.
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|