Extra hard drive on computing speed

[Craig]

I have a Dell computer (WinXP Pro -SP2) with Pentium 4 processor with 2.66
Ghz. That computer came with a single, 80 GB hard drive. Recently, I
added an 200 GB Maxtor hard drive as D-slave drive. Then, all data files
(xls, doc, etc) were moved from C-drive to D-drive. Currently, the
computer runs just fine.
But I feel that computer is getting a little slower recently. For example,
when I click an Excel file, it used to open up the spreadsheet INSTANTLY
(when there was only a single C-drive). Now, I feel that it takes a few
seconds delay before seeing the same spreadsheet. I am wondering whether
the slow speed has to with the presence of D-drive (i.e., retrieving a data
file from D-drive instead of C-drive>My Documents) or other factors
associated with the computer. I might be wrong. So I am seeking your
opinion. Craig

[John John]

What other IDE devices have you got in that Dell box? If only a CDROM
then stick the new Maxtor drive on the second IDE controller with the
CDROM and see if it helps. As it is now your first IDE controller is
doing all the work while the second may just be sitting idle, moving the
second drive to the other IDE controller might help reducing bottlenecks.

John

Craig wrote:

> I have a Dell computer (WinXP Pro -SP2) with Pentium 4 processor with 2.66
> Ghz. That computer came with a single, 80 GB hard drive. Recently, I
> added an 200 GB Maxtor hard drive as D-slave drive. Then, all data files
> (xls, doc, etc) were moved from C-drive to D-drive. Currently, the
> computer runs just fine.
> But I feel that computer is getting a little slower recently. For example,
> when I click an Excel file, it used to open up the spreadsheet INSTANTLY
> (when there was only a single C-drive). Now, I feel that it takes a few
> seconds delay before seeing the same spreadsheet. I am wondering whether
> the slow speed has to with the presence of D-drive (i.e., retrieving a data
> file from D-drive instead of C-drive>My Documents) or other factors
> associated with the computer. I might be wrong. So I am seeking your
> opinion. Craig
>
>

[Craig]

John. It came with CD-ROM. Since then, I added an extra DVD burner because
there was a room for another ROM. So the computer has CD ROM, DVD burner,
C- Drive and D-drive. (Note, I bought and added an bracket to add
D-drive). What do you think? Craig





"John John" > wrote in message
...
> What other IDE devices have you got in that Dell box? If only a CDROM
> then stick the new Maxtor drive on the second IDE controller with the
> CDROM and see if it helps. As it is now your first IDE controller is
> doing all the work while the second may just be sitting idle, moving the
> second drive to the other IDE controller might help reducing bottlenecks.
>
> John

[John John]

I would keep the the "C" drive as it is (obviously for Windows to boot
and work properly) and slave the CDROM onto it being that the CDROM is
probably not used all that often. Then I would put the new drive on the
second IDE controller with the DVD burner. As to which device should be
master, the new drive as opposed to the DVD burner, that's like 6 of one
and half a dozen of the other. CD/DVD burners usually like to be master
as opposed to slave, not to say that it can't work as slave but these
devices do a lot of work when burning disks so they tend to go better or
faster when master. Also, if you use the new drive for temporary file
transfer when you burn there might be a bit of a performance hit when
you burn disks. If you do a lot of burning with the DVD burner then you
should probably set it to master and set the new hard drive to slave on
the second IDE controller. When you use the drive for simple storage of
your data files you most likely aren't burning at the same time so the
drive should run just as fast as if it was master. There is no "one
size fits all" with these issues, it depends on what you do most with
your computer but that is the way I would most likely set it up.

John

Craig wrote:

> John. It came with CD-ROM. Since then, I added an extra DVD burner because
> there was a room for another ROM. So the computer has CD ROM, DVD burner,
> C- Drive and D-drive. (Note, I bought and added an bracket to add
> D-drive). What do you think? Craig
>
>
>
>
>
> "John John" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>What other IDE devices have you got in that Dell box? If only a CDROM
>>then stick the new Maxtor drive on the second IDE controller with the
>>CDROM and see if it helps. As it is now your first IDE controller is
>>doing all the work while the second may just be sitting idle, moving the
>>second drive to the other IDE controller might help reducing bottlenecks.
>>
>>John
>
>
>

[Craig]

John,

I agree with you. I hardly burn DVD or play music CDs.
The issue is speed of D-slave drive.
C-master and D-slave drives are connected with a IDE ribbon cable with two
connections (1st and 2nd).
That's how two hard disks are connected.

>Then I would put the new drive on the second IDE controller with the DVD
>burner

Does this mean to change cable or what?
Could you please elaborate more in detail how?
I am an ordinary computer user with very little knowledge of hardware.

TIA, Craig






"John John" > wrote in message
...
>I would keep the the "C" drive as it is (obviously for Windows to boot and
>work properly) and slave the CDROM onto it being that the CDROM is probably
>not used all that often. Then I would put the new drive on the second IDE
>controller with the DVD burner. As to which device should be master, the
>new drive as opposed to the DVD burner, that's like 6 of one and half a
>dozen of the other. CD/DVD burners usually like to be master as opposed to
>slave, not to say that it can't work as slave but these devices do a lot of
>work when burning disks so they tend to go better or faster when master.
>Also, if you use the new drive for temporary file transfer when you burn
>there might be a bit of a performance hit when you burn disks. If you do a
>lot of burning with the DVD burner then you should probably set it to
>master and set the new hard drive to slave on the second IDE controller.
>When you use the drive for simple storage of your data files you most
>likely aren't burning at the same time so the drive should run just as fast
>as if it was master. There is no "one size fits all" with these issues, it
>depends on what you do most with your computer but that is the way I would
>most likely set it up.
>
> John

[John John]

You already installed your new hard drive in the computer so you already
know pretty well how to go about it. You shouldn't need additional
cables, you should be able to use the ones you have now. All you need
to do is to move the devices to different locations on the cables and
make sure the device jumpers are set for the location. Those Dells
usually use a "Cable Select" scheme for Master/Slave configuration. On
the back of the drives you will see a small jumper (pin like doodad)
usually marked M/S/CS for Master/Slave/Cable Select. Leave your C drive
as it is and plug the CDROM where the new hard drive was. The jumper on
the CDROM should be on Cable Select or Slave if cable select doesn't
work. Keep the red marker on the IDE cables towards or next to the
power port on the devices. Then do the same with the new hard drive and
DVD burner on the secondary controller. When you boot the pc look in
the BIOS to see if the drives are properly recognized and in the proper
locations on the controllers. There are many sites on the internet that
show the procedure in details, for example:

http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-1035_11-1043935.html
http://freepctech.com/pc/001/installing_ide_devices.shtml
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/conf_Cable80.htm
(Consult the index on the left hand pane for useful information)

John


Craig wrote:

> John,
>
> I agree with you. I hardly burn DVD or play music CDs.
> The issue is speed of D-slave drive.
> C-master and D-slave drives are connected with a IDE ribbon cable with two
> connections (1st and 2nd).
> That's how two hard disks are connected.
>
>
>>Then I would put the new drive on the second IDE controller with the DVD
>>burner
>
>
> Does this mean to change cable or what?
> Could you please elaborate more in detail how?
> I am an ordinary computer user with very little knowledge of hardware.
>
> TIA, Craig
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "John John" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I would keep the the "C" drive as it is (obviously for Windows to boot and
>>work properly) and slave the CDROM onto it being that the CDROM is probably
>>not used all that often. Then I would put the new drive on the second IDE
>>controller with the DVD burner. As to which device should be master, the
>>new drive as opposed to the DVD burner, that's like 6 of one and half a
>>dozen of the other. CD/DVD burners usually like to be master as opposed to
>>slave, not to say that it can't work as slave but these devices do a lot of
>>work when burning disks so they tend to go better or faster when master.
>>Also, if you use the new drive for temporary file transfer when you burn
>>there might be a bit of a performance hit when you burn disks. If you do a
>>lot of burning with the DVD burner then you should probably set it to
>>master and set the new hard drive to slave on the second IDE controller.
>>When you use the drive for simple storage of your data files you most
>>likely aren't burning at the same time so the drive should run just as fast
>>as if it was master. There is no "one size fits all" with these issues, it
>>depends on what you do most with your computer but that is the way I would
>>most likely set it up.
>>
>>John
>
>
>

[Craig]

Thank you John,

It looks like I can handle that easy.
I will plan to do this weekend.

Thanks.

Craig



"John John" > wrote in message
...
> You already installed your new hard drive in the computer so you already
> know pretty well how to go about it. You shouldn't need additional
> cables, you should be able to use the ones you have now. All you need to
> do is to move the devices to different locations on the cables and make
> sure the device jumpers are set for the location. Those Dells usually use
> a "Cable Select" scheme for Master/Slave configuration. On the back of
> the drives you will see a small jumper (pin like doodad) usually marked
> M/S/CS for Master/Slave/Cable Select. Leave your C drive as it is and
> plug the CDROM where the new hard drive was. The jumper on the CDROM
> should be on Cable Select or Slave if cable select doesn't work. Keep the
> red marker on the IDE cables towards or next to the power port on the
> devices. Then do the same with the new hard drive and DVD burner on the
> secondary controller. When you boot the pc look in the BIOS to see if the
> drives are properly recognized and in the proper locations on the
> controllers. There are many sites on the internet that show the procedure
> in details, for example:
>
> http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-1035_11-1043935.html
> http://freepctech.com/pc/001/installing_ide_devices.shtml
> http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/conf_Cable80.htm
> (Consult the index on the left hand pane for useful information)
>
> John
>
>
> Craig wrote:
>
>> John,
>>
>> I agree with you. I hardly burn DVD or play music CDs.
>> The issue is speed of D-slave drive.
>> C-master and D-slave drives are connected with a IDE ribbon cable with
>> two connections (1st and 2nd).
>> That's how two hard disks are connected.
>>
>>
>>>Then I would put the new drive on the second IDE controller with the DVD
>>>burner
>>
>>
>> Does this mean to change cable or what?
>> Could you please elaborate more in detail how?
>> I am an ordinary computer user with very little knowledge of hardware.
>>
>> TIA, Craig
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "John John" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>I would keep the the "C" drive as it is (obviously for Windows to boot
>>>and work properly) and slave the CDROM onto it being that the CDROM is
>>>probably not used all that often. Then I would put the new drive on the
>>>second IDE controller with the DVD burner. As to which device should be
>>>master, the new drive as opposed to the DVD burner, that's like 6 of one
>>>and half a dozen of the other. CD/DVD burners usually like to be master
>>>as opposed to slave, not to say that it can't work as slave but these
>>>devices do a lot of work when burning disks so they tend to go better or
>>>faster when master. Also, if you use the new drive for temporary file
>>>transfer when you burn there might be a bit of a performance hit when you
>>>burn disks. If you do a lot of burning with the DVD burner then you
>>>should probably set it to master and set the new hard drive to slave on
>>>the second IDE controller. When you use the drive for simple storage of
>>>your data files you most likely aren't burning at the same time so the
>>>drive should run just as fast as if it was master. There is no "one size
>>>fits all" with these issues, it depends on what you do most with your
>>>computer but that is the way I would most likely set it up.
>>>
>>>John
>>
>>

[John John]

I'm sure you can handle that easily being that you already did the hard
drive and the DVD burner. It might be trial and error before you get it
as you want it but otherwise it's fairly straightforward, just don't
move the Windows drive. Good luck.

John

Craig wrote:
> Thank you John,
>
> It looks like I can handle that easy.
> I will plan to do this weekend.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Craig
>
>
>
> "John John" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>You already installed your new hard drive in the computer so you already
>>know pretty well how to go about it. You shouldn't need additional
>>cables, you should be able to use the ones you have now. All you need to
>>do is to move the devices to different locations on the cables and make
>>sure the device jumpers are set for the location. Those Dells usually use
>>a "Cable Select" scheme for Master/Slave configuration. On the back of
>>the drives you will see a small jumper (pin like doodad) usually marked
>>M/S/CS for Master/Slave/Cable Select. Leave your C drive as it is and
>>plug the CDROM where the new hard drive was. The jumper on the CDROM
>>should be on Cable Select or Slave if cable select doesn't work. Keep the
>>red marker on the IDE cables towards or next to the power port on the
>>devices. Then do the same with the new hard drive and DVD burner on the
>>secondary controller. When you boot the pc look in the BIOS to see if the
>>drives are properly recognized and in the proper locations on the
>>controllers. There are many sites on the internet that show the procedure
>>in details, for example:
>>
>>http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-1035_11-1043935.html
>>http://freepctech.com/pc/001/installing_ide_devices.shtml
>>http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/conf_Cable80.htm
>>(Consult the index on the left hand pane for useful information)
>>
>>John
>>
>>
>>Craig wrote:
>>
>>
>>>John,
>>>
>>>I agree with you. I hardly burn DVD or play music CDs.
>>>The issue is speed of D-slave drive.
>>>C-master and D-slave drives are connected with a IDE ribbon cable with
>>>two connections (1st and 2nd).
>>>That's how two hard disks are connected.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Then I would put the new drive on the second IDE controller with the DVD
>>>>burner
>>>
>>>
>>>Does this mean to change cable or what?
>>>Could you please elaborate more in detail how?
>>>I am an ordinary computer user with very little knowledge of hardware.
>>>
>>>TIA, Craig
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"John John" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>I would keep the the "C" drive as it is (obviously for Windows to boot
>>>>and work properly) and slave the CDROM onto it being that the CDROM is
>>>>probably not used all that often. Then I would put the new drive on the
>>>>second IDE controller with the DVD burner. As to which device should be
>>>>master, the new drive as opposed to the DVD burner, that's like 6 of one
>>>>and half a dozen of the other. CD/DVD burners usually like to be master
>>>>as opposed to slave, not to say that it can't work as slave but these
>>>>devices do a lot of work when burning disks so they tend to go better or
>>>>faster when master. Also, if you use the new drive for temporary file
>>>>transfer when you burn there might be a bit of a performance hit when you
>>>>burn disks. If you do a lot of burning with the DVD burner then you
>>>>should probably set it to master and set the new hard drive to slave on
>>>>the second IDE controller. When you use the drive for simple storage of
>>>>your data files you most likely aren't burning at the same time so the
>>>>drive should run just as fast as if it was master. There is no "one size
>>>>fits all" with these issues, it depends on what you do most with your
>>>>computer but that is the way I would most likely set it up.
>>>>
>>>>John
>>>
>>>
>

[MadDog]

Craig,

Your new 'D' drive should be on the same IDE controller as your 'C' drive.
Putting a hard drive on the same IDE controller as a CD-ROM will slow it
down.

MD



"Craig" wrote:

> John. It came with CD-ROM. Since then, I added an extra DVD burner because
> there was a room for another ROM. So the computer has CD ROM, DVD burner,
> C- Drive and D-drive. (Note, I bought and added an bracket to add
> D-drive). What do you think? Craig
>
>
>
>
>
> "John John" > wrote in message
> ...
> > What other IDE devices have you got in that Dell box? If only a CDROM
> > then stick the new Maxtor drive on the second IDE controller with the
> > CDROM and see if it helps. As it is now your first IDE controller is
> > doing all the work while the second may just be sitting idle, moving the
> > second drive to the other IDE controller might help reducing bottlenecks.
> >
> > John
>
>
>

[Ghostrider]

Craig wrote:
> Thank you John,
>
> It looks like I can handle that easy.
> I will plan to do this weekend.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Craig
>

And also make sure that, in Device Manager, under Advanced
Settings for the IDE controllers, the transfer mode for the
drives are set to "DMA, if available".

[John John]

That could very well be the case. If so Craig should then place the
drive as he originally had it and strongly consider getting a PCI IDE
controller card. The problem with on-board IDE controllers is that they
can't do two things at the same time, that's why for example when
burning CD's if the source file comes from a device on the same IDE
controller you might get buffer overrun errors. Good burners or good
burning software can compensate for these errors. Moving the drives to
a PCI controller card is surely the best way to deal with this, plus it
will free up the CPU for other things as it will not need to handle data
transfers from the on-board controllers.

John

MadDog wrote:

> Craig,
>
> Your new 'D' drive should be on the same IDE controller as your 'C' drive.
> Putting a hard drive on the same IDE controller as a CD-ROM will slow it
> down.
>
> MD
>
>
>
> "Craig" wrote:
>
>
>>John. It came with CD-ROM. Since then, I added an extra DVD burner because
>>there was a room for another ROM. So the computer has CD ROM, DVD burner,
>>C- Drive and D-drive. (Note, I bought and added an bracket to add
>>D-drive). What do you think? Craig
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"John John" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>What other IDE devices have you got in that Dell box? If only a CDROM
>>>then stick the new Maxtor drive on the second IDE controller with the
>>>CDROM and see if it helps. As it is now your first IDE controller is
>>>doing all the work while the second may just be sitting idle, moving the
>>>second drive to the other IDE controller might help reducing bottlenecks.
>>>
>>>John
>>
>>
>>

[Craig]

I would like ask you this question.
I checked DMA mode for the computer. This is what I see (note: I did not
check before installing the D-slave drive).

Device 0 (master drive)
Transfer mode: DMA if available
Current Transfer mode: Ultra DMA Mode 2

Device 1 (Slave drive)
Transfer mode: PIO Only
Current Transfer mode: PIO Mode

When I checked my other computers with two drives, Transfer mode was DMA
if available and current Transfer Mode: ultra DMA Mode 5.

I wonder why this Dell computer sets Ultra DMA Mode 2 instead of 5.
Secondly, Device 1 is a 3 week-old, brand new Maxthol 200 GB hard disk.
I am wondering why its transfer mode uses PIO only instead of DMA.

I am wondering what determines this setting. I tried to change PIO Only
for D-slave drive. But Transfer mode did not change into DMA mode.
I am wondering whether those settings are influenced by the IDE ribbon cable
or not.

Your comments would be appreciated.

Craig










"Ghostrider" > wrote in message
...
>
> Craig wrote:
>> Thank you John,
>>
>> It looks like I can handle that easy.
>> I will plan to do this weekend.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>
> And also make sure that, in Device Manager, under Advanced
> Settings for the IDE controllers, the transfer mode for the
> drives are set to "DMA, if available".

[Ghostrider]

Craig wrote:
> I would like ask you this question.
> I checked DMA mode for the computer. This is what I see (note: I did not
> check before installing the D-slave drive).
>
> Device 0 (master drive)
> Transfer mode: DMA if available
> Current Transfer mode: Ultra DMA Mode 2
>
> Device 1 (Slave drive)
> Transfer mode: PIO Only
> Current Transfer mode: PIO Mode
>
> When I checked my other computers with two drives, Transfer mode was DMA
> if available and current Transfer Mode: ultra DMA Mode 5.
>
> I wonder why this Dell computer sets Ultra DMA Mode 2 instead of 5.
> Secondly, Device 1 is a 3 week-old, brand new Maxthol 200 GB hard disk.
> I am wondering why its transfer mode uses PIO only instead of DMA.
>
> I am wondering what determines this setting. I tried to change PIO Only
> for D-slave drive. But Transfer mode did not change into DMA mode.
> I am wondering whether those settings are influenced by the IDE ribbon cable
> or not.
>
> Your comments would be appreciated.
>
> Craig

AFAIK, the transfer mode level is determined by the firmware
of the device and not set by Windows. Also, Windows will, by
default, set the most conservative transfer mode and this is
PIO. It requires the user to change the transfer mode setting
that can be applied to the hardware. In this instance, both
Device 0 and Device 1 could well have been set to DMA. In its
present setting, with D drive (Device 1) in PIO Only, the entire
connection is running at the slower PIO rate.

[Craig]

Hi,

I probably found the major cause of the problem. When I checked BIOS,
both D-drive and DVD-burner (which I installed) were OFF.
It seems that when Dell shipped computer (a year old computer), secondary
drives were disabled. I could not change "OFF" setting to "ON".
So I am trying to figure out how to update the BIOS. Craig



"MadDog" > wrote in message
...
> Craig,
>
> Your new 'D' drive should be on the same IDE controller as your 'C'
> drive.
> Putting a hard drive on the same IDE controller as a CD-ROM will slow it
> down.
>
> MD
>
>
>
> "Craig" wrote:
>
>> John. It came with CD-ROM. Since then, I added an extra DVD burner
>> because
>> there was a room for another ROM. So the computer has CD ROM, DVD
>> burner,
>> C- Drive and D-drive. (Note, I bought and added an bracket to add
>> D-drive). What do you think? Craig
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "John John" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > What other IDE devices have you got in that Dell box? If only a CDROM
>> > then stick the new Maxtor drive on the second IDE controller with the
>> > CDROM and see if it helps. As it is now your first IDE controller is
>> > doing all the work while the second may just be sitting idle, moving
>> > the
>> > second drive to the other IDE controller might help reducing
>> > bottlenecks.
>> >
>> > John
>>
>>
>>

[Craig]

In the previous post, I used an incorrect term.

"Secondary drives" should be read "Primary and Secondary Slave Drives".

Craig

[Ron Martell]

MadDog > wrote:

>Craig,
>
> Your new 'D' drive should be on the same IDE controller as your 'C' drive.
> Putting a hard drive on the same IDE controller as a CD-ROM will slow it
>down.
>
>MD
>

No. That used to be the case, in the earliest implementations of the
IDE drives in the late 1980s. But since the Enhanced IDE
specification was implemented (in the mid 1990s I believe) that has no
longer been true. Each device operates at its own speed, regardless
of what other device, if any, may be on the same channel.

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP (1997 - 2006)
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

[Mike Hyndman]

Doessn't DMA operate at the speed of the slowest connected device? That is
why you shouldn't have H/Ds and C/Ds on the same channel.
MH