Q824143 -- how to get patch?!?

[Susquehanna County Library]

OK, this may be a dumb question--how does one email MS to get the
q824143 patch without paying? I have 26 computers affected by this
problem. We're a public library system so this has a big impact on our
users, but we're also very poor and I can't justify spending $99 or
$245 (which "may be refunded"...don't want to count on that!) Failing
that, how soon can we expect a publically-available patch? Mucho
thanks for any feedback.

--
Hilary Caws-Elwitt
Susquehanna County Library

[Shawn Rabourn \(MS\)]

You can call us and get the hotfix for free. It only costs extra money if
you need support beyond the patch.

--Shawn
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights.


"Susquehanna County Library" > wrote in message
om...
> OK, this may be a dumb question--how does one email MS to get the
> q824143 patch without paying? I have 26 computers affected by this
> problem. We're a public library system so this has a big impact on our
> users, but we're also very poor and I can't justify spending $99 or
> $245 (which "may be refunded"...don't want to count on that!) Failing
> that, how soon can we expect a publically-available patch? Mucho
> thanks for any feedback.
>
> --
> Hilary Caws-Elwitt
> Susquehanna County Library

[FastLane]

I cannot find the patch for Q284143. Maybe you have it misspelled? Microsoft
does not charge for security patches.

You can either search for the right patch at
http://www.microsoft.com/security or point your browser to
http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com and it will tell you what you need to
install.

--
FastLane

Xbox MVP
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------


"Susquehanna County Library" > wrote in message
om...
> OK, this may be a dumb question--how does one email MS to get the
> q824143 patch without paying? I have 26 computers affected by this
> problem. We're a public library system so this has a big impact on our
> users, but we're also very poor and I can't justify spending $99 or
> $245 (which "may be refunded"...don't want to count on that!) Failing
> that, how soon can we expect a publically-available patch? Mucho
> thanks for any feedback.
>
> --
> Hilary Caws-Elwitt
> Susquehanna County Library

[Nicholas]

Hilary --

Please clean your reading glasses and read the article again:

"In special cases, charges that are ordinarily incurred for support=20
calls may be canceled if a Microsoft Support Professional=20
determines that a specific update will resolve your problem".=20

In other words, if the repair fixes your problem, then there
will be no charge. The only way to get the patch is to
contact Microsoft support as instructed in the article.

--=20
Nicholas

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------------------

"Susquehanna County Library" > wrote in message:
om...

| OK, this may be a dumb question--how does one email MS to get the
| q824143 patch without paying? I have 26 computers affected by this
| problem. We're a public library system so this has a big impact on our
| users, but we're also very poor and I can't justify spending $99 or
| $245 (which "may be refunded"...don't want to count on that!) Failing
| that, how soon can we expect a publically-available patch? Mucho
| thanks for any feedback.
|=20
| --
| Hilary Caws-Elwitt
| Susquehanna County Library

[Shawn Rabourn \(MS\)]

824143 Desktop Shortcut to the 3 1/2 Inch Disk Drive or to the CD-ROM Drive
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=824143


"FastLane" > wrote in message
...
> I cannot find the patch for Q284143. Maybe you have it misspelled?
Microsoft
> does not charge for security patches.
>
> You can either search for the right patch at
> http://www.microsoft.com/security or point your browser to
> http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com and it will tell you what you need to
> install.
>
> --
> FastLane
>
> Xbox MVP
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----------------------------------------------
>
>
> "Susquehanna County Library" > wrote in message
> om...
> > OK, this may be a dumb question--how does one email MS to get the
> > q824143 patch without paying? I have 26 computers affected by this
> > problem. We're a public library system so this has a big impact on our
> > users, but we're also very poor and I can't justify spending $99 or
> > $245 (which "may be refunded"...don't want to count on that!) Failing
> > that, how soon can we expect a publically-available patch? Mucho
> > thanks for any feedback.
> >
> > --
> > Hilary Caws-Elwitt
> > Susquehanna County Library
>
>

[Bill Sanderson]

You've heard it from the horses mouth, but just to corroborate - I've
received such patches with no hassle about charges.

Just state upfront that you are having the problem described in KB article
thusandsuch, and they'll get you the patch.

"Susquehanna County Library" > wrote in message
om...
> OK, this may be a dumb question--how does one email MS to get the
> q824143 patch without paying? I have 26 computers affected by this
> problem. We're a public library system so this has a big impact on our
> users, but we're also very poor and I can't justify spending $99 or
> $245 (which "may be refunded"...don't want to count on that!) Failing
> that, how soon can we expect a publically-available patch? Mucho
> thanks for any feedback.
>
> --
> Hilary Caws-Elwitt
> Susquehanna County Library

[Bill Sanderson]

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;824143

(I think you have done the misspelling!)

"FastLane" > wrote in message
...
> I cannot find the patch for Q284143. Maybe you have it misspelled?
Microsoft
> does not charge for security patches.
>
> You can either search for the right patch at
> http://www.microsoft.com/security or point your browser to
> http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com and it will tell you what you need to
> install.
>
> --
> FastLane
>
> Xbox MVP
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----------------------------------------------
>
>
> "Susquehanna County Library" > wrote in message
> om...
> > OK, this may be a dumb question--how does one email MS to get the
> > q824143 patch without paying? I have 26 computers affected by this
> > problem. We're a public library system so this has a big impact on our
> > users, but we're also very poor and I can't justify spending $99 or
> > $245 (which "may be refunded"...don't want to count on that!) Failing
> > that, how soon can we expect a publically-available patch? Mucho
> > thanks for any feedback.
> >
> > --
> > Hilary Caws-Elwitt
> > Susquehanna County Library
>
>

[Will Denny]

Hi Shawn

If Q824143 is needed then it will only be downloaded by those users who =
need it. Why make a mockery out of the MS support system by =
'suggesting' that certain 'patches' have to be referred via MS before =
those 'patches' can be downloaded?

On who 'infinite wisdom' are these 'costs' based on? Doesn't MS make =
enough profit without having to charge the end user for the 'privilege =
of an update'?

Will

"Shawn Rabourn (MS)" > wrote in message =
...
> You can call us and get the hotfix for free. It only costs extra =
money if
> you need support beyond the patch.
>=20
> --Shawn
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no =
rights.
>=20
>=20
> "Susquehanna County Library" > wrote in =
message
> om...
> > OK, this may be a dumb question--how does one email MS to get the
> > q824143 patch without paying? I have 26 computers affected by this
> > problem. We're a public library system so this has a big impact on =
our
> > users, but we're also very poor and I can't justify spending $99 or
> > $245 (which "may be refunded"...don't want to count on that!) =
Failing
> > that, how soon can we expect a publically-available patch? Mucho
> > thanks for any feedback.
> >
> > --
> > Hilary Caws-Elwitt
> > Susquehanna County Library
>=20
>=20


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/2003

[Torgeir Bakken (MVP)]

Susquehanna County Library wrote:

> OK, this may be a dumb question--how does one email MS to get the
> q824143 patch without paying? I have 26 computers affected by this
> problem. We're a public library system so this has a big impact on our
> users, but we're also very poor and I can't justify spending $99 or
> $245 (which "may be refunded"...don't want to count on that!)

This update *is* free, but you need to contact MS to obtain it. Call Microsoft,
ask explicit for hotfix 824143, and don't give away any credit card
information.


> Failing
> that, how soon can we expect a publically-available patch?

Service Pack 2, estimated released mid-2004.


--
torgeir
Microsoft MVP Scripting and WMI, Porsgrunn Norway
Administration scripting examples and an ONLINE version of the 1328 page
Scripting Guide: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter

[Will Denny]

Hi Nicholas

I'm not sure that I agree with your posting. Why should we have to pay =
MS, whether the problem is solved or not. The MS employees who sit on =
the other end of the 'phone couldn't care 2 monkeys if the problem is =
solved - they are being paid by MS. I am at home here, all day, with =
about 6 'phone calls per hour from 'friends' whose PC has gone belly up =
- do I charge - not bloody likely. I can 'normally' solve 95% of the =
problems - the other 5% bewilder me - without any money going into my =
bank account. Explain that if you can.

Will

"Nicholas" > wrote in message =
...
Hilary --

Please clean your reading glasses and read the article again:

"In special cases, charges that are ordinarily incurred for support=20
calls may be canceled if a Microsoft Support Professional=20
determines that a specific update will resolve your problem".=20

In other words, if the repair fixes your problem, then there
will be no charge. The only way to get the patch is to
contact Microsoft support as instructed in the article.

--=20
Nicholas

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------------------

"Susquehanna County Library" > wrote in message:
om...

| OK, this may be a dumb question--how does one email MS to get the
| q824143 patch without paying? I have 26 computers affected by this
| problem. We're a public library system so this has a big impact on our
| users, but we're also very poor and I can't justify spending $99 or
| $245 (which "may be refunded"...don't want to count on that!) Failing
| that, how soon can we expect a publically-available patch? Mucho
| thanks for any feedback.
|=20
| --
| Hilary Caws-Elwitt
| Susquehanna County Library


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/2003

[Shawn Rabourn \(MS\)]

To extend my statement, sometimes there is a fix available that fixes a
problem or an error message and if the problem that a customer calls in for
happens to be a different problem that the problem the hotfix addresses,
then they may have to open a paid support incident.

Hotfixes are updates to files that are supposed to be in future service
packs. They are intended for customers who cannot wait for the next service
pack due to production or functionality loss.

--Shawn
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights.



"Will Denny" > wrote in message
...
Hi Shawn

If Q824143 is needed then it will only be downloaded by those users who need
it. Why make a mockery out of the MS support system by 'suggesting' that
certain 'patches' have to be referred via MS before those 'patches' can be
downloaded?

On who 'infinite wisdom' are these 'costs' based on? Doesn't MS make enough
profit without having to charge the end user for the 'privilege of an
update'?

Will

"Shawn Rabourn (MS)" > wrote in message
...
> You can call us and get the hotfix for free. It only costs extra money if
> you need support beyond the patch.
>
> --Shawn
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights.
>
>
> "Susquehanna County Library" > wrote in message
> om...
> > OK, this may be a dumb question--how does one email MS to get the
> > q824143 patch without paying? I have 26 computers affected by this
> > problem. We're a public library system so this has a big impact on our
> > users, but we're also very poor and I can't justify spending $99 or
> > $245 (which "may be refunded"...don't want to count on that!) Failing
> > that, how soon can we expect a publically-available patch? Mucho
> > thanks for any feedback.
> >
> > --
> > Hilary Caws-Elwitt
> > Susquehanna County Library
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/2003

[Will Denny]

Hi Shawn

My comments are not directed at you personally, but MS in general. If =
you feel that I have 'gone over the mark', please let me know. A lot of =
people here in the UK have tried the 'pay for' help. They have found =
that it is very expensive and have contacted me. I don't charge to sort =
their problems out, even though I may get several each hour.

If you say that the Hotfixes are meant for SP2, why are they available =
now? I believe that there will be no SP2 and MS will go straight into =
'Longhorn' - or whatever MS deems to call it. SP2 - possibly available =
in Q3 2004 - that would put it in the range of Jan-March 2004.

Will

"Shawn Rabourn (MS)" > wrote in message =
...
> To extend my statement, sometimes there is a fix available that fixes =
a
> problem or an error message and if the problem that a customer calls =
in for
> happens to be a different problem that the problem the hotfix =
addresses,
> then they may have to open a paid support incident.
>=20
> Hotfixes are updates to files that are supposed to be in future =
service
> packs. They are intended for customers who cannot wait for the next =
service
> pack due to production or functionality loss.
>=20
> --Shawn
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no =
rights.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> "Will Denny" > wrote in message
> ...
> Hi Shawn
>=20
> If Q824143 is needed then it will only be downloaded by those users =
who need
> it. Why make a mockery out of the MS support system by 'suggesting' =
that
> certain 'patches' have to be referred via MS before those 'patches' =
can be
> downloaded?
>=20
> On who 'infinite wisdom' are these 'costs' based on? Doesn't MS make =
enough
> profit without having to charge the end user for the 'privilege of an
> update'?
>=20
> Will
>=20
> "Shawn Rabourn (MS)" > wrote in message
> ...
> > You can call us and get the hotfix for free. It only costs extra =
money if
> > you need support beyond the patch.
> >
> > --Shawn
> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no =
rights.
> >
> >
> > "Susquehanna County Library" > wrote in =
message
> > om...
> > > OK, this may be a dumb question--how does one email MS to get the
> > > q824143 patch without paying? I have 26 computers affected by this
> > > problem. We're a public library system so this has a big impact on =
our
> > > users, but we're also very poor and I can't justify spending $99 =
or
> > > $245 (which "may be refunded"...don't want to count on that!) =
Failing
> > > that, how soon can we expect a publically-available patch? Mucho
> > > thanks for any feedback.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Hilary Caws-Elwitt
> > > Susquehanna County Library
> >
> >
>=20
>=20
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/2003
>=20
>=20


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/2003

[Shawn Rabourn \(MS\)]

I understand your frustration. We try to do our best in the support
business and I am glad you're doing your best in helping people out... less
work for us!

I will say that SP2 for Windows XP will be out a lot sooner than Longhorn.
I won't say much more because I could get in trouble.

--Shawn
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights.



"Will Denny" > wrote in message
...
Hi Shawn

My comments are not directed at you personally, but MS in general. If you
feel that I have 'gone over the mark', please let me know. A lot of people
here in the UK have tried the 'pay for' help. They have found that it is
very expensive and have contacted me. I don't charge to sort their problems
out, even though I may get several each hour.

If you say that the Hotfixes are meant for SP2, why are they available now?
I believe that there will be no SP2 and MS will go straight into
'Longhorn' - or whatever MS deems to call it. SP2 - possibly available in
Q3 2004 - that would put it in the range of Jan-March 2004.

Will

"Shawn Rabourn (MS)" > wrote in message
...
> To extend my statement, sometimes there is a fix available that fixes a
> problem or an error message and if the problem that a customer calls in
for
> happens to be a different problem that the problem the hotfix addresses,
> then they may have to open a paid support incident.
>
> Hotfixes are updates to files that are supposed to be in future service
> packs. They are intended for customers who cannot wait for the next
service
> pack due to production or functionality loss.
>
> --Shawn
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights.
>
>
>
> "Will Denny" > wrote in message
> ...
> Hi Shawn
>
> If Q824143 is needed then it will only be downloaded by those users who
need
> it. Why make a mockery out of the MS support system by 'suggesting' that
> certain 'patches' have to be referred via MS before those 'patches' can be
> downloaded?
>
> On who 'infinite wisdom' are these 'costs' based on? Doesn't MS make
enough
> profit without having to charge the end user for the 'privilege of an
> update'?
>
> Will
>
> "Shawn Rabourn (MS)" > wrote in message
> ...
> > You can call us and get the hotfix for free. It only costs extra money
if
> > you need support beyond the patch.
> >
> > --Shawn
> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no
rights.
> >
> >
> > "Susquehanna County Library" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > OK, this may be a dumb question--how does one email MS to get the
> > > q824143 patch without paying? I have 26 computers affected by this
> > > problem. We're a public library system so this has a big impact on our
> > > users, but we're also very poor and I can't justify spending $99 or
> > > $245 (which "may be refunded"...don't want to count on that!) Failing
> > > that, how soon can we expect a publically-available patch? Mucho
> > > thanks for any feedback.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Hilary Caws-Elwitt
> > > Susquehanna County Library
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/2003
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/2003

[Will Denny]

NDAs - I understand your posting.

Will

"Shawn Rabourn (MS)" > wrote in message =
...
> I understand your frustration. We try to do our best in the support
> business and I am glad you're doing your best in helping people out... =
less
> work for us!
>=20
> I will say that SP2 for Windows XP will be out a lot sooner than =
Longhorn.
> I won't say much more because I could get in trouble.
>=20
> --Shawn
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no =
rights.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> "Will Denny" > wrote in message
> ...
> Hi Shawn
>=20
> My comments are not directed at you personally, but MS in general. If =
you
> feel that I have 'gone over the mark', please let me know. A lot of =
people
> here in the UK have tried the 'pay for' help. They have found that it =
is
> very expensive and have contacted me. I don't charge to sort their =
problems
> out, even though I may get several each hour.
>=20
> If you say that the Hotfixes are meant for SP2, why are they available =
now?
> I believe that there will be no SP2 and MS will go straight into
> 'Longhorn' - or whatever MS deems to call it. SP2 - possibly =
available in
> Q3 2004 - that would put it in the range of Jan-March 2004.
>=20
> Will
>=20
> "Shawn Rabourn (MS)" > wrote in message
> ...
> > To extend my statement, sometimes there is a fix available that =
fixes a
> > problem or an error message and if the problem that a customer calls =
in
> for
> > happens to be a different problem that the problem the hotfix =
addresses,
> > then they may have to open a paid support incident.
> >
> > Hotfixes are updates to files that are supposed to be in future =
service
> > packs. They are intended for customers who cannot wait for the next
> service
> > pack due to production or functionality loss.
> >
> > --Shawn
> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no =
rights.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Will Denny" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > Hi Shawn
> >
> > If Q824143 is needed then it will only be downloaded by those users =
who
> need
> > it. Why make a mockery out of the MS support system by 'suggesting' =
that
> > certain 'patches' have to be referred via MS before those 'patches' =
can be
> > downloaded?
> >
> > On who 'infinite wisdom' are these 'costs' based on? Doesn't MS =
make
> enough
> > profit without having to charge the end user for the 'privilege of =
an
> > update'?
> >
> > Will
> >
> > "Shawn Rabourn (MS)" > wrote in =
message
> > ...
> > > You can call us and get the hotfix for free. It only costs extra =
money
> if
> > > you need support beyond the patch.
> > >
> > > --Shawn
> > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no
> rights.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Susquehanna County Library" > wrote in =
message
> > > om...
> > > > OK, this may be a dumb question--how does one email MS to get =
the
> > > > q824143 patch without paying? I have 26 computers affected by =
this
> > > > problem. We're a public library system so this has a big impact =
on our
> > > > users, but we're also very poor and I can't justify spending $99 =
or
> > > > $245 (which "may be refunded"...don't want to count on that!) =
Failing
> > > > that, how soon can we expect a publically-available patch? Mucho
> > > > thanks for any feedback.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Hilary Caws-Elwitt
> > > > Susquehanna County Library
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/2003
> >
> >
>=20
>=20
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/2003
>=20
>=20


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/2003

[Will Denny]

Nicholas

Unless you have blocked me, why haven't you responded to my last 3 =
postings? I don't like it when my postings aren't responded to. Oh, I =
know 'input, input, input' - October is very near. No need to show off =
now.

A response of any kind from you would be helpful. My 5 year old =
grandson has just woken up, so I shall be away from this PC for approx. =
2 mins. He will be interested to see if you have replied to any of my =
postings. You can't disappoint a 5 year old, can you?

Will

"Will Denny" > wrote in message =
...
Hi Nicholas

I'm not sure that I agree with your posting. Why should we have to pay =
MS, whether the problem is solved or not. The MS employees who sit on =
the other end of the 'phone couldn't care 2 monkeys if the problem is =
solved - they are being paid by MS. I am at home here, all day, with =
about 6 'phone calls per hour from 'friends' whose PC has gone belly up =
- do I charge - not bloody likely. I can 'normally' solve 95% of the =
problems - the other 5% bewilder me - without any money going into my =
bank account. Explain that if you can.

Will

"Nicholas" > wrote in message =
...
Hilary --

Please clean your reading glasses and read the article again:

"In special cases, charges that are ordinarily incurred for support=20
calls may be canceled if a Microsoft Support Professional=20
determines that a specific update will resolve your problem".=20

In other words, if the repair fixes your problem, then there
will be no charge. The only way to get the patch is to
contact Microsoft support as instructed in the article.

--=20
Nicholas

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------------------

"Susquehanna County Library" > wrote in message:
om...

| OK, this may be a dumb question--how does one email MS to get the
| q824143 patch without paying? I have 26 computers affected by this
| problem. We're a public library system so this has a big impact on our
| users, but we're also very poor and I can't justify spending $99 or
| $245 (which "may be refunded"...don't want to count on that!) Failing
| that, how soon can we expect a publically-available patch? Mucho
| thanks for any feedback.
|=20
| --
| Hilary Caws-Elwitt
| Susquehanna County Library


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/2003


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[Will Denny]

....over posting, no:

http://tinyurl.com/kwnm

Will

"Nicholas" > wrote in message =
...
Hilary --

Please clean your reading glasses and read the article again:

"In special cases, charges that are ordinarily incurred for support=20
calls may be canceled if a Microsoft Support Professional=20
determines that a specific update will resolve your problem".=20

In other words, if the repair fixes your problem, then there
will be no charge. The only way to get the patch is to
contact Microsoft support as instructed in the article.

--=20
Nicholas

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------------------

"Susquehanna County Library" > wrote in message:
om...

| OK, this may be a dumb question--how does one email MS to get the
| q824143 patch without paying? I have 26 computers affected by this
| problem. We're a public library system so this has a big impact on our
| users, but we're also very poor and I can't justify spending $99 or
| $245 (which "may be refunded"...don't want to count on that!) Failing
| that, how soon can we expect a publically-available patch? Mucho
| thanks for any feedback.
|=20
| --
| Hilary Caws-Elwitt
| Susquehanna County Library


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[Mike Brannigan [MSFT]]

Will,

There are 2 sorts of patches.
There are public one that are written for a bug that effects a large number
of users and these are posted with the Q article for public download. These
patches are rigorously tested and are of a sufficient quality bar as to be
suitable for all.
Then there are "private" fixes. These are a hotfix written for a specific
client or clients that are have an issue. These hotfixes are still related
to a Q article so people can still find out about them - BUT they are often
not a deeply tested as the public fixes because they are written for a
specific set of circumstances and hardware/software etc.
They are available from product support if the engineer while working with
the client identifies that this fix will fix the specific problem the client
is having and the fact that the client has to contact PSS to make this
arrangements allows us to track who gets these fixes so they can be followed
up and also issued with later version of the fix as and when they become
available, they also receive the SP that contains the final version of the
fix as soon as possible.

The reason that a client "may" incur a cost for this is that they might not
actually have the precise issue that the fix is coded to fix and in these
cases we then open a regular support incident with the appropriate cost that
incurs. So this then becomes a regular support call to Microsoft which
can/may incur charges.

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups

"Will Denny" > wrote in message
...
Hi Shawn

If Q824143 is needed then it will only be downloaded by those users who need
it. Why make a mockery out of the MS support system by 'suggesting' that
certain 'patches' have to be referred via MS before those 'patches' can be
downloaded?

On who 'infinite wisdom' are these 'costs' based on? Doesn't MS make enough
profit without having to charge the end user for the 'privilege of an
update'?

Will

"Shawn Rabourn (MS)" > wrote in message
...
> You can call us and get the hotfix for free. It only costs extra money if
> you need support beyond the patch.
>
> --Shawn
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights.
>
>
> "Susquehanna County Library" > wrote in message
> om...
> > OK, this may be a dumb question--how does one email MS to get the
> > q824143 patch without paying? I have 26 computers affected by this
> > problem. We're a public library system so this has a big impact on our
> > users, but we're also very poor and I can't justify spending $99 or
> > $245 (which "may be refunded"...don't want to count on that!) Failing
> > that, how soon can we expect a publically-available patch? Mucho
> > thanks for any feedback.
> >
> > --
> > Hilary Caws-Elwitt
> > Susquehanna County Library
>
>


---
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[Bill Sanderson]

Mike - I'm sure this is an accurate description of this process.

However, it seems to me that it doesn't help assuage the fears of the user
who has an issue he/she is reasonably sure is covered by a particular
private fix, and wants at least the opportunity to try that fix without
incurring cost.

Is it also accurate to say that it will always be possible to receive this
class of hotfixes without cost, as long as nothing else is discussed in the
support call?

The current wording, leaving the user hanging about whether a request for a
patch will cost them nothing, or perhaps what may be a large sum indeed in
some circumstances, is not something your customers like very much, in my
experience.

"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" > wrote in message
...
> Will,
>
> There are 2 sorts of patches.
> There are public one that are written for a bug that effects a large
number
> of users and these are posted with the Q article for public download.
These
> patches are rigorously tested and are of a sufficient quality bar as to be
> suitable for all.
> Then there are "private" fixes. These are a hotfix written for a specific
> client or clients that are have an issue. These hotfixes are still
related
> to a Q article so people can still find out about them - BUT they are
often
> not a deeply tested as the public fixes because they are written for a
> specific set of circumstances and hardware/software etc.
> They are available from product support if the engineer while working with
> the client identifies that this fix will fix the specific problem the
client
> is having and the fact that the client has to contact PSS to make this
> arrangements allows us to track who gets these fixes so they can be
followed
> up and also issued with later version of the fix as and when they become
> available, they also receive the SP that contains the final version of
the
> fix as soon as possible.
>
> The reason that a client "may" incur a cost for this is that they might
not
> actually have the precise issue that the fix is coded to fix and in these
> cases we then open a regular support incident with the appropriate cost
that
> incurs. So this then becomes a regular support call to Microsoft which
> can/may incur charges.
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Mike
> --
> Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights
>
> Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
> newsgroups
>
> "Will Denny" > wrote in message
> ...
> Hi Shawn
>
> If Q824143 is needed then it will only be downloaded by those users who
need
> it. Why make a mockery out of the MS support system by 'suggesting' that
> certain 'patches' have to be referred via MS before those 'patches' can be
> downloaded?
>
> On who 'infinite wisdom' are these 'costs' based on? Doesn't MS make
enough
> profit without having to charge the end user for the 'privilege of an
> update'?
>
> Will
>
> "Shawn Rabourn (MS)" > wrote in message
> ...
> > You can call us and get the hotfix for free. It only costs extra money
if
> > you need support beyond the patch.
> >
> > --Shawn
> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no
rights.
> >
> >
> > "Susquehanna County Library" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > OK, this may be a dumb question--how does one email MS to get the
> > > q824143 patch without paying? I have 26 computers affected by this
> > > problem. We're a public library system so this has a big impact on our
> > > users, but we're also very poor and I can't justify spending $99 or
> > > $245 (which "may be refunded"...don't want to count on that!) Failing
> > > that, how soon can we expect a publically-available patch? Mucho
> > > thanks for any feedback.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Hilary Caws-Elwitt
> > > Susquehanna County Library
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/2003
>
>

[Will Denny]

Hi Mike

Intriguing - the 'fixes' that haven't been tested are charged for, the =
'fixes' that have been tested, but sometimes don't 'agree' with a system =
are free. That would make sense - I suppose - to someone - not to me =
though. Presumably the 'client' has paid MS to work out these anomalies =
- that is why MS has to charge.

Will

"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" > wrote in message =
...
> Will,
>=20
> There are 2 sorts of patches.
> There are public one that are written for a bug that effects a large =
number
> of users and these are posted with the Q article for public download. =
These
> patches are rigorously tested and are of a sufficient quality bar as =
to be
> suitable for all.
> Then there are "private" fixes. These are a hotfix written for a =
specific
> client or clients that are have an issue. These hotfixes are still =
related
> to a Q article so people can still find out about them - BUT they are =
often
> not a deeply tested as the public fixes because they are written for a
> specific set of circumstances and hardware/software etc.
> They are available from product support if the engineer while working =
with
> the client identifies that this fix will fix the specific problem the =
client
> is having and the fact that the client has to contact PSS to make this
> arrangements allows us to track who gets these fixes so they can be =
followed
> up and also issued with later version of the fix as and when they =
become
> available, they also receive the SP that contains the final version =
of the
> fix as soon as possible.
>=20
> The reason that a client "may" incur a cost for this is that they =
might not
> actually have the precise issue that the fix is coded to fix and in =
these
> cases we then open a regular support incident with the appropriate =
cost that
> incurs. So this then becomes a regular support call to Microsoft which
> can/may incur charges.
>=20
> --=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Mike
> --
> Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]
>=20
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights
>=20
> Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
> newsgroups
>=20
> "Will Denny" > wrote in message
> ...
> Hi Shawn
>=20
> If Q824143 is needed then it will only be downloaded by those users =
who need
> it. Why make a mockery out of the MS support system by 'suggesting' =
that
> certain 'patches' have to be referred via MS before those 'patches' =
can be
> downloaded?
>=20
> On who 'infinite wisdom' are these 'costs' based on? Doesn't MS make =
enough
> profit without having to charge the end user for the 'privilege of an
> update'?
>=20
> Will
>=20
> "Shawn Rabourn (MS)" > wrote in message
> ...
> > You can call us and get the hotfix for free. It only costs extra =
money if
> > you need support beyond the patch.
> >
> > --Shawn
> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no =
rights.
> >
> >
> > "Susquehanna County Library" > wrote in =
message
> > om...
> > > OK, this may be a dumb question--how does one email MS to get the
> > > q824143 patch without paying? I have 26 computers affected by this
> > > problem. We're a public library system so this has a big impact on =
our
> > > users, but we're also very poor and I can't justify spending $99 =
or
> > > $245 (which "may be refunded"...don't want to count on that!) =
Failing
> > > that, how soon can we expect a publically-available patch? Mucho
> > > thanks for any feedback.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Hilary Caws-Elwitt
> > > Susquehanna County Library
> >
> >
>=20
>=20
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/2003
>=20
>=20


---
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[Torgeir Bakken (MVP)]

Will Denny wrote:

> Hi Mike
>
> Intriguing - the 'fixes' that haven't been tested are charged for

This is not how I read it. It is only if the fix doesn't solve your problem and you still want Microsoft to continue to help you to resolve the problem that charges may incur.


--
torgeir
Microsoft MVP Scripting and WMI, Porsgrunn Norway
Administration scripting examples and an ONLINE version of the 1328 page Scripting Guide: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter

[Will Denny]

Hi Torgeir

In either case - why should MS be charging =A3/$? All posters in these =
NGs give their valued knowledge for free. Unless I have missed =
something - why doesn't MS do the same?

Will

"Torgeir Bakken (MVP)" > wrote in message =
...
> Will Denny wrote:
>=20
> > Hi Mike
> >
> > Intriguing - the 'fixes' that haven't been tested are charged for
>=20
> This is not how I read it. It is only if the fix doesn't solve your =
problem and you still want Microsoft to continue to help you to resolve =
the problem that charges may incur.
>=20
>=20
> --
> torgeir
> Microsoft MVP Scripting and WMI, Porsgrunn Norway
> Administration scripting examples and an ONLINE version of the 1328 =
page Scripting Guide: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter
>=20
>=20


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Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 20/08/2003

[Torgeir Bakken (MVP)]

Will Denny wrote:

> Torgeir Bakken (MVP) wrote:.
> > Will Denny wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Mike
> > >
> > > Intriguing - the 'fixes' that haven't been tested are charged for
> >
> > This is not how I read it. It is only if the fix doesn't solve your problem and you still want Microsoft to continue to help you to resolve the problem that charges may incur.
>
> In either case - why should MS be charging £/$? All posters in these NGs give their valued knowledge for free. Unless I have missed something - why doesn't MS do the same?

Hi

This is the types of free support you get from Microsoft if I am not mistaken (and there should be no less of course):

a) Obtaining hotfixes.

b) If the product support engineer while working with the issue identifies that it is caused by a bug (known and unknown).

c) Problems associated with security updates.


As far as I know, no large consumer software company gives unconditional free support whatever the reason for the problem. Why should Microsoft do it?


--
torgeir
Microsoft MVP Scripting and WMI, Porsgrunn Norway
Administration scripting examples and an ONLINE version of the 1328 page Scripting Guide: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter

[Will Denny]

"Torgeir Bakken (MVP)" > wrote in message =
...
> Will Denny wrote:
>=20
> > Torgeir Bakken (MVP) wrote:.
> > > Will Denny wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Mike
> > > >
> > > > Intriguing - the 'fixes' that haven't been tested are charged =
for
> > >
> > > This is not how I read it. It is only if the fix doesn't solve =
your problem and you still want Microsoft to continue to help you to =
resolve the problem that charges may incur.
> >
> > In either case - why should MS be charging =A3/$? All posters in =
these NGs give their valued knowledge for free. Unless I have missed =
something - why doesn't MS do the same?
>=20
> Hi
>=20
> This is the types of free support you get from Microsoft if I am not =
mistaken (and there should be no less of course):
>=20
> a) Obtaining hotfixes.
>=20
> b) If the product support engineer while working with the issue =
identifies that it is caused by a bug (known and unknown).
>=20
> c) Problems associated with security updates.
>=20
>=20
> As far as I know, no large consumer software company gives =
unconditional free support whatever the reason for the problem. Why =
should Microsoft do it?

Hi Torgeir

You are obviously talking from a 'business' point of view. I am talking =
from the end user point of view. I think that this 'discussion' is now =
ended -not much point in carrying on if you are 'voting' for MS.

Will



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 20/08/2003

[Torgeir Bakken (MVP)]

Will Denny wrote:

> "Torgeir Bakken (MVP)" wrote:
> >
> > This is the types of free support you get from Microsoft if I am not mistaken (and there should be no less of course):
> >
> > a) Obtaining hotfixes.
> > b) If the product support engineer while working with the issue identifies that it is caused by a bug (known and unknown).
> > c) Problems associated with security updates.
> >
> > As far as I know, no large consumer software company gives unconditional free support whatever the reason for the problem. Why should Microsoft do it?
>
> Hi Torgeir
>
> You are obviously talking from a 'business' point of view. I am talking from the end user point of view.

Not really, I used the word "consumer" in the meaning to cover the end user part as well.


> I think that this 'discussion' is now ended -not much point in carrying on if you are 'voting' for MS.

Ok, but for the record, I'm not 'voting' for MS, I just trying to indicate that MS is a business company where the ultimate goal is to make money, and I set my expectations on what users can get for free from them
accordingly.


--
torgeir
Microsoft MVP Scripting and WMI, Porsgrunn Norway
Administration scripting examples and an ONLINE version of the 1328 page Scripting Guide: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter

[Mike Brannigan [MSFT]]

Will

I never said the private fixes were not tested. I said that the level of
testing was not "as deeply tested" as the public ones.
Since they target a more specific class of problem identified in a limited
environment.
They are still a quality fix.

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups

"Will Denny" > wrote in message
...
Hi Mike

Intriguing - the 'fixes' that haven't been tested are charged for, the
'fixes' that have been tested, but sometimes don't 'agree' with a system are
free. That would make sense - I suppose - to someone - not to me though.
Presumably the 'client' has paid MS to work out these anomalies - that is
why MS has to charge.

Will

"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" > wrote in message
...
> Will,
>
> There are 2 sorts of patches.
> There are public one that are written for a bug that effects a large
number
> of users and these are posted with the Q article for public download.
These
> patches are rigorously tested and are of a sufficient quality bar as to be
> suitable for all.
> Then there are "private" fixes. These are a hotfix written for a specific
> client or clients that are have an issue. These hotfixes are still
related
> to a Q article so people can still find out about them - BUT they are
often
> not a deeply tested as the public fixes because they are written for a
> specific set of circumstances and hardware/software etc.
> They are available from product support if the engineer while working with
> the client identifies that this fix will fix the specific problem the
client
> is having and the fact that the client has to contact PSS to make this
> arrangements allows us to track who gets these fixes so they can be
followed
> up and also issued with later version of the fix as and when they become
> available, they also receive the SP that contains the final version of
the
> fix as soon as possible.
>
> The reason that a client "may" incur a cost for this is that they might
not
> actually have the precise issue that the fix is coded to fix and in these
> cases we then open a regular support incident with the appropriate cost
that
> incurs. So this then becomes a regular support call to Microsoft which
> can/may incur charges.
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Mike
> --
> Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights
>
> Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
> newsgroups
>
> "Will Denny" > wrote in message
> ...
> Hi Shawn
>
> If Q824143 is needed then it will only be downloaded by those users who
need
> it. Why make a mockery out of the MS support system by 'suggesting' that
> certain 'patches' have to be referred via MS before those 'patches' can be
> downloaded?
>
> On who 'infinite wisdom' are these 'costs' based on? Doesn't MS make
enough
> profit without having to charge the end user for the 'privilege of an
> update'?
>
> Will
>
> "Shawn Rabourn (MS)" > wrote in message
> ...
> > You can call us and get the hotfix for free. It only costs extra money
if
> > you need support beyond the patch.
> >
> > --Shawn
> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no
rights.
> >
> >
> > "Susquehanna County Library" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > OK, this may be a dumb question--how does one email MS to get the
> > > q824143 patch without paying? I have 26 computers affected by this
> > > problem. We're a public library system so this has a big impact on our
> > > users, but we're also very poor and I can't justify spending $99 or
> > > $245 (which "may be refunded"...don't want to count on that!) Failing
> > > that, how soon can we expect a publically-available patch? Mucho
> > > thanks for any feedback.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Hilary Caws-Elwitt
> > > Susquehanna County Library
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/2003
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 20/08/2003

[Mike Brannigan [MSFT]]

Will,

We offer a range of support options for customer (corporate or end user) to
choose from, some free some paid for
see
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;[ln];msservices (for US)
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;en-gb;assistedover (for
UK)

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups

"Will Denny" > wrote in message
...
Hi Torgeir

In either case - why should MS be charging £/$? All posters in these NGs
give their valued knowledge for free. Unless I have missed something - why
doesn't MS do the same?

Will

"Torgeir Bakken (MVP)" > wrote in message
...
> Will Denny wrote:
>
> > Hi Mike
> >
> > Intriguing - the 'fixes' that haven't been tested are charged for
>
> This is not how I read it. It is only if the fix doesn't solve your
problem and you still want Microsoft to continue to help you to resolve the
problem that charges may incur.
>
>
> --
> torgeir
> Microsoft MVP Scripting and WMI, Porsgrunn Norway
> Administration scripting examples and an ONLINE version of the 1328 page
Scripting Guide: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 20/08/2003

[Will Denny]

Thanks, Mike for your last two replies - understood on both counts.

Cheers.

Will

"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" > wrote in message =
...
> Will,
>=20
> We offer a range of support options for customer (corporate or end =
user) to
> choose from, some free some paid for
> see
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=3Dfh;[ln];msservices =
(for US)
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=3Dfh;en-gb;assistedover =
(for
> UK)
>=20
> --=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Mike
> --
> Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]
>=20
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights
>=20
> Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
> newsgroups
>=20
> "Will Denny" > wrote in message
> ...
> Hi Torgeir
>=20
> In either case - why should MS be charging =A3/$? All posters in =
these NGs
> give their valued knowledge for free. Unless I have missed something =
- why
> doesn't MS do the same?
>=20
> Will
>=20
> "Torgeir Bakken (MVP)" > wrote in =
message
> ...
> > Will Denny wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Mike
> > >
> > > Intriguing - the 'fixes' that haven't been tested are charged for
> >
> > This is not how I read it. It is only if the fix doesn't solve your
> problem and you still want Microsoft to continue to help you to =
resolve the
> problem that charges may incur.
> >
> >
> > --
> > torgeir
> > Microsoft MVP Scripting and WMI, Porsgrunn Norway
> > Administration scripting examples and an ONLINE version of the 1328 =
page
> Scripting Guide: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter
> >
> >
>=20
>=20
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 20/08/2003
>=20
>=20


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 20/08/2003

[Bill Sanderson]

"Will Denny" > wrote in message
...
Hi Nicholas

I'm not sure that I agree with your posting. Why should we have to pay MS,
whether the problem is solved or not. The MS employees who sit on the other
end of the 'phone couldn't care 2 monkeys if the problem is solved - they
are being paid by MS. I am at home here, all day, with about 6 'phone calls
per hour from 'friends' whose PC has gone belly up - do I charge - not
bloody likely. I can 'normally' solve 95% of the problems - the other 5%
bewilder me - without any money going into my bank account. Explain that if
you can.

Will - That isn't how it works. Call Microsoft PSS. Tell them that you
have the problem which appears to be fixed by KB article thusandsuch.

Every time I've done this in recent years, I've been immediately sent a
password and download location for the patch in question. I do recall, long
ago (the product was Lan Manager!) having to give a credit-card number
before I reached that point in the dialog--the card was never charged.

Just don't chit-chat or bring up extraneous details in the call.

And, for whatever it is worth, I have the strong impression that PSS support
staff place a high value on solving the problems presented to them--they're
not just sitting there getting paid by the hour--results matter.

[Adam Field]

I would have to agree with Bill on this.

My experience of PSS has always been excellent.

-Adam

"Bill Sanderson" > wrote in message
...
> "Will Denny" > wrote in message
> ...
> Hi Nicholas
>
> I'm not sure that I agree with your posting. Why should we have to pay
MS,
> whether the problem is solved or not. The MS employees who sit on the
other
> end of the 'phone couldn't care 2 monkeys if the problem is solved - they
> are being paid by MS. I am at home here, all day, with about 6 'phone
calls
> per hour from 'friends' whose PC has gone belly up - do I charge - not
> bloody likely. I can 'normally' solve 95% of the problems - the other 5%
> bewilder me - without any money going into my bank account. Explain that
if
> you can.
>
> Will - That isn't how it works. Call Microsoft PSS. Tell them that you
> have the problem which appears to be fixed by KB article thusandsuch.
>
> Every time I've done this in recent years, I've been immediately sent a
> password and download location for the patch in question. I do recall,
long
> ago (the product was Lan Manager!) having to give a credit-card number
> before I reached that point in the dialog--the card was never charged.
>
> Just don't chit-chat or bring up extraneous details in the call.
>
> And, for whatever it is worth, I have the strong impression that PSS
support
> staff place a high value on solving the problems presented to
them--they're
> not just sitting there getting paid by the hour--results matter.
>
>