Selling reflection gratings on E-bay

[[email protected]]

I have this nifty reflection grating that someone threw away, with a
label that says "Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP2." It is a 5-1/4
inch plastic grating that looks very similar to the gratings AOL used
to hand out.

Since I've been using Linux for years now, I wasn't aware that the boys
from Redmond were into optics. But I remember them being real
particular about how their products were distributed -- part of the
reason I switched. Will their legal hounds come after me if I sell it
as a reflection grating and not sell a software license?

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

That "nifty reflection" is worthless as it is now against Federal Law
to sell a standalone COA (Certificate of Authenticity) without the original
holographic Windows XP CD and the accompanying licesning
documentation.

The federal Anti-Counterfeiting Amendments Act of 2003 was signed
into law by President Bush on Dec. 23, 2004. It provides for criminal
and civil penalties for the distribution of genuine standalone Certificate
of Authenticity (COA) labels or authentic COA labels that are separated
from the software they were intended to certify.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows - Shell/User

Enjoy all the benefits of genuine Microsoft software:
http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/default.mspx

---------------------------------------------------------------------------*---------------------------------

mleighwrote:

| I have this nifty reflection grating that someone threw away, with a
| label that says "Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP2." It is a 5-1/4
| inch plastic grating that looks very similar to the gratings AOL used
| to hand out.
|
| Since I've been using Linux for years now, I wasn't aware that the boys
| from Redmond were into optics. But I remember them being real
| particular about how their products were distributed -- part of the
| reason I switched. Will their legal hounds come after me if I sell it
| as a reflection grating and not sell a software license?

[arachnid]

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 18:50:46 -0500, Carey Frisch [MVP] wrote:

> That "nifty reflection" is worthless as it is now against Federal Law
> to sell a standalone COA (Certificate of Authenticity) without the original
> holographic Windows XP CD and the accompanying licesning
> documentation.


I think by "grating" he's referring to the CD which is, from a physics
standpoint, reflection grating.

> The federal Anti-Counterfeiting Amendments Act of 2003 was signed into
> law by President Bush on Dec. 23, 2004. It provides for criminal and
> civil penalties for the distribution of genuine standalone Certificate
> of Authenticity (COA) labels or authentic COA labels that are separated
> from the software they were intended to certify.

The penalty is for distribution of counterfeit COA's. I don't see any
prohibition against separating the CD from a genuine COA and selling the
CD. However that's probably covered under the DMCA which gives authority
to the EULA which in turn prohibits transferring ownership of the CD
without the accompanying COA.



If anyone cares, here's §2318:

<http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00002318----000-.html>

[[email protected]]

Arachnid is correct, a CD makes a nice reflection grating, and I have
used them to teach my students about diffraction. Thus, the Windows CD
would have "substantial non-infringing use" though that is probably
misapplied here. It is a stand-along disk, found in a pile by a
dumpster. I thought the DMCA regarded circumvention of technological
measures, though there seems to be no end to intellectual property
abuse these days. CD's could also be, arguably, used as coasters or
mirrors. Perhaps people interested in selling copies of windows on
Ebay should list their items in those categories.

On a side note, what if instead of selling the disk, I use the software
for my personal use. Have I violated laws? What if the COA was also
tossed with the disk? Could a person legally use it if they picked both
out of the dumpster? (This is probably why MS started insisting on
COA's being attached to hardware). I am not sure if these cases are
actually forbidden by law, which makes them interesting.

Ultimately, I would encourage readers to choose to do business with
companies that are more user-friendly with their licensing. Operating
Systems really are commodities these days. What happened to the
aircraft, automobile, and home appliance market is now happening to the
software market.

P.S. Gates should probably spend some of his science education money
on improving the technical literacy MS and their partners before trying
to dictate to everyone else. Of course, I doubt Gates could even write
a "hello world" program these days, as his forte has been business, not
technology, for far too long.

arachnid wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 18:50:46 -0500, Carey Frisch [MVP] wrote:
>
> > That "nifty reflection" is worthless as it is now against Federal Law
> > to sell a standalone COA (Certificate of Authenticity) without the original
> > holographic Windows XP CD and the accompanying licesning

> The penalty is for distribution of counterfeit COA's. I don't see any
> prohibition against separating the CD from a genuine COA and selling the
> CD. However that's probably covered under the DMCA which gives authority
> to the EULA which in turn prohibits transferring ownership of the CD
> without the accompanying COA.
>
>
>
> If anyone cares, here's §2318:
>
> <http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00002318----000-.html>

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

A standalone Windows XP disc is worthless unless you
have the actual COA that came with it. For all we know,
someone has already used the product key and inadvertently
tossed it in the dumpster.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows - Shell/User

Enjoy all the benefits of genuine Microsoft software:
http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/default.mspx

---------------------------------------------------------------------------*---------------------------------

> wrote in message oups.com...
Arachnid is correct, a CD makes a nice reflection grating, and I have
used them to teach my students about diffraction. Thus, the Windows CD
would have "substantial non-infringing use" though that is probably
misapplied here. It is a stand-along disk, found in a pile by a
dumpster. I thought the DMCA regarded circumvention of technological
measures, though there seems to be no end to intellectual property
abuse these days. CD's could also be, arguably, used as coasters or
mirrors. Perhaps people interested in selling copies of windows on
Ebay should list their items in those categories.

On a side note, what if instead of selling the disk, I use the software
for my personal use. Have I violated laws? What if the COA was also
tossed with the disk? Could a person legally use it if they picked both
out of the dumpster? (This is probably why MS started insisting on
COA's being attached to hardware). I am not sure if these cases are
actually forbidden by law, which makes them interesting.

Ultimately, I would encourage readers to choose to do business with
companies that are more user-friendly with their licensing. Operating
Systems really are commodities these days. What happened to the
aircraft, automobile, and home appliance market is now happening to the
software market.

P.S. Gates should probably spend some of his science education money
on improving the technical literacy MS and their partners before trying
to dictate to everyone else. Of course, I doubt Gates could even write
a "hello world" program these days, as his forte has been business, not
technology, for far too long.

arachnid wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 18:50:46 -0500, Carey Frisch [MVP] wrote:
>
> > That "nifty reflection" is worthless as it is now against Federal Law
> > to sell a standalone COA (Certificate of Authenticity) without the original
> > holographic Windows XP CD and the accompanying licesning

> The penalty is for distribution of counterfeit COA's. I don't see any
> prohibition against separating the CD from a genuine COA and selling the
> CD. However that's probably covered under the DMCA which gives authority
> to the EULA which in turn prohibits transferring ownership of the CD
> without the accompanying COA.
>
>
>
> If anyone cares, here's §2318:
>
> <http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00002318----000-.html>

[NoStop]

On Tuesday 15 August 2006 03:32 pm, had this to say in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:

> I have this nifty reflection grating that someone threw away, with a
> label that says "Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP2." It is a 5-1/4
> inch plastic grating that looks very similar to the gratings AOL used
> to hand out.
>
> Since I've been using Linux for years now, I wasn't aware that the boys
> from Redmond were into optics. But I remember them being real
> particular about how their products were distributed -- part of the
> reason I switched. Will their legal hounds come after me if I sell it
> as a reflection grating and not sell a software license?

Attach a string to it so it can be hung from a tree and then sell it as a
"lawn ornament". It's more useful for that use than as an operating system
on ones computer.


--
WGA is the best thing that has happened for Linux in a while.

The ULTIMATE Windoze Fanboy:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2370205018226686613

Is this a modern day equivalent of a Nazi youth rally?:

http://www.ntk.net/media/developers.mpg

A 3D Linux Desktop (video) ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUSn-jBA3CE

View Some Common Linux Desktops ...
http://shots.osdir.com/

[[email protected]]

Come now, Carey. You're "destroy the disk at all costs" mentality is
surely over the top. After all, if it had no value, MS would not send
their legal eagles to comb Ebay to make sure no one was selling OEM
Windows (at least without including a defunct DRAM module).

As I've pointed out, CDs work nicely as a diffraction grating (or a
reflection grating for the more technically inclined), so therefore it
has physical value and there is no sense wasting something useful.
Though in truth, the intellectual property has no use to me as I run
Linux. But, it may have value to someone else who would like to
install it, and put up with all the "WPA"-type restrictions and checks.


I imagine such people would value the software since it came from the
overflowing dumpster of a large bank company that is probably also in
your citi. Such organizations just slap some kind of enterprise
agreement software on the computer. I would guess such a piece of
software would be "live." Further, noticing the overflowing dumpsters
of many other large organizations when they get a batch of new
computers in, this careless handling of IT material goes on all the
time. But, MS should be grateful for such incompetence, if IT pros
actually thought things out, there would be alot more competition, and
not just the "nobody got fired for buying IBM" mentality that has now
morphed into "nobody got fired for buying MS."

Funny true experience, even for supporters of MS. A former associate
would re-install XP every 30 days (or 90 days) so he wouldn't have to
register his illicit copy. I suggested he just use Linux and Wine, but
he still persisted with XP. When valuing his time, he certainly would
have saved by buying XP, even with his grad student stipend. For all I
know, he's still doing it. ;-)


Carey Frisch [MVP] wrote:
> A standalone Windows XP disc is worthless unless you
> have the actual COA that came with it. For all we know,
> someone has already used the product key and inadvertently
> tossed it in the dumpster.
>
> --
> Carey Frisch
> Microsoft MVP
> Windows - Shell/User
>
> Enjoy all the benefits of genuine Microsoft software:
> http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/default.mspx
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*---------------------------------
>

[Frank]

Don't you just love the _Legal Eagles_ in this newsgroup.

> wrote in message oups.com...
Come now, Carey. You're "destroy the disk at all costs" mentality is
surely over the top. After all, if it had no value, MS would not send
their legal eagles to comb Ebay to make sure no one was selling OEM
Windows (at least without including a defunct DRAM module).

As I've pointed out, CDs work nicely as a diffraction grating (or a
reflection grating for the more technically inclined), so therefore it
has physical value and there is no sense wasting something useful.
Though in truth, the intellectual property has no use to me as I run
Linux. But, it may have value to someone else who would like to
install it, and put up with all the "WPA"-type restrictions and checks.


I imagine such people would value the software since it came from the
overflowing dumpster of a large bank company that is probably also in
your citi. Such organizations just slap some kind of enterprise
agreement software on the computer. I would guess such a piece of
software would be "live." Further, noticing the overflowing dumpsters
of many other large organizations when they get a batch of new
computers in, this careless handling of IT material goes on all the
time. But, MS should be grateful for such incompetence, if IT pros
actually thought things out, there would be alot more competition, and
not just the "nobody got fired for buying IBM" mentality that has now
morphed into "nobody got fired for buying MS."

Funny true experience, even for supporters of MS. A former associate
would re-install XP every 30 days (or 90 days) so he wouldn't have to
register his illicit copy. I suggested he just use Linux and Wine, but
he still persisted with XP. When valuing his time, he certainly would
have saved by buying XP, even with his grad student stipend. For all I
know, he's still doing it. ;-)


Carey Frisch [MVP] wrote:
> A standalone Windows XP disc is worthless unless you
> have the actual COA that came with it. For all we know,
> someone has already used the product key and inadvertently
> tossed it in the dumpster.
>
> --
> Carey Frisch
> Microsoft MVP
> Windows - Shell/User
>
> Enjoy all the benefits of genuine Microsoft software:
> http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/default.mspx
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*---------------------------------
>