can't see win98 net share

[bell-lady]

Situation: 3-PC home network thru hub to cable modem. One XP machine, PC A
and PC B both with Win98SE. Problem: I can't get from XP machine to PC B's
shared C drive.

Recently I tried to lock down potential outside access coming into this
network. Perhaps I succeeded too well :-))! After restoring the setups, I
can get from XP machine to PC A's shared drives, but not to PC B's. PC A can
get to PC B's shared drives, why can't XP get there? What am I missing?

Both PC A and B have file sharing enabled, passwords setup as usual
(re-entered to be sure). Both appear to have the same TCP setup and services
running as each other. All systems, cable modem & hub have been rebooted. IP
addresses all appear in the net modem properly.

I did notice I cannot get to PC B's shares from PC A unless I stop Zone
Alarm on PC A. So I tried turning ZoneAlarm off on the XP machine but that
didn't help. There is no ZoneAlarm on PC B.

Recommendations to try/check?
Ann in PA
--

www.memorialflag.org
www.parkavenueumc.org

[Walter Clayton]

Recommendation: Install a router first. Once you're installed a router then
we can proceed. As is, you're attempting to setup a public LAN and having
the XP machine locked down as it is is a good thing. You also need to
install ZA on the other machines and lock them down and forget F&P sharing
until you move the broadband connection out to a router.

--
Walter Clayton - MS MVP(WinXP)
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
http://www.dts-l.org
http://support.microsoft.com/servicedesks/fileversion/default.asp


"bell-lady" > wrote in message
...
> Situation: 3-PC home network thru hub to cable modem. One XP machine, PC A
> and PC B both with Win98SE. Problem: I can't get from XP machine to PC B's
> shared C drive.
>
> Recently I tried to lock down potential outside access coming into this
> network. Perhaps I succeeded too well :-))! After restoring the setups, I
> can get from XP machine to PC A's shared drives, but not to PC B's. PC A
can
> get to PC B's shared drives, why can't XP get there? What am I missing?
>
> Both PC A and B have file sharing enabled, passwords setup as usual
> (re-entered to be sure). Both appear to have the same TCP setup and
services
> running as each other. All systems, cable modem & hub have been rebooted.
IP
> addresses all appear in the net modem properly.
>
> I did notice I cannot get to PC B's shares from PC A unless I stop Zone
> Alarm on PC A. So I tried turning ZoneAlarm off on the XP machine but that
> didn't help. There is no ZoneAlarm on PC B.
>
> Recommendations to try/check?
> Ann in PA
> --
>
> www.memorialflag.org
> www.parkavenueumc.org
>

[bell-lady]

Walter,
Thank you for your reply.

I believe that what I called a cable modem is indeed a router. I can log
into it internally, see it's DHCP clients, see logs in in/out traffic,
re-route incoming to specific PC etc. Is that a router (sorry, network
knowledge is very old and I'm not sure how/if routers or modems are
different any more)?

I believe it doesn't let any thing come into the network unless requested
from the inside. It has both an internal and external IP address for itself.

But why can't I connect from one PC inside to another, doesn't go thru the
modem to the outside? All of the ping each other OK. And all 3 PCs connect
to shares both directions EXCEPT XP machine to PC B.

Thx,
Ann in PA

[Walter Clayton]

Time to clarify terminology and make sure of the network topology.

A cable modem is not a router. It is simply a device which is attached to
the coax from the cable company and has another connection to some device.
The latter can be a router or PC. A rough diagram follows using typical
configurations:

A cable connection into a router looks something like this:

---coax--->[cable modem]--cat5-->[router doing DHCP]---->[switch/hub(can be
internal)]-->[one or more PCs]
--or-- --->[PC ]

hub and switch are functionally equivalent. They simply create a star
topology that can be cascaded: (crudely)

[Switch/Hub}--cat5-->device
--cat5-->device
--cat5-->device

I have had clients approach me with a

---coax--->[cable modem]---cat5--->[switch/hub]----->[one or more PCs]

This is a legitimate configuration, but the security requirements are
different as is the IP leasing.

Another key is that a router has an internal IP address; generally something
in the 192.168.x.x. range. It is in fact a device you have to log into
whereas a cable modem can not be logged into. Another key difference is the
IP address leased by the machines. If it's a private address, then some kind
of router is involved; if a public address, then there is no private router
involved. Which reminds me. What's the current IP address of any of the
machines on the network. I should be able to extrapolate from there what
your toplogy is unless you can confirm what it is.

--
Walter Clayton - MS MVP(WinXP)
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
http://www.dts-l.org
http://support.microsoft.com/servicedesks/fileversion/default.asp


"bell-lady" > wrote in message
...
> Walter,
> Thank you for your reply.
>
> I believe that what I called a cable modem is indeed a router. I can log
> into it internally, see it's DHCP clients, see logs in in/out traffic,
> re-route incoming to specific PC etc. Is that a router (sorry, network
> knowledge is very old and I'm not sure how/if routers or modems are
> different any more)?
>
> I believe it doesn't let any thing come into the network unless requested
> from the inside. It has both an internal and external IP address for
itself.
>
> But why can't I connect from one PC inside to another, doesn't go thru the
> modem to the outside? All of the ping each other OK. And all 3 PCs connect
> to shares both directions EXCEPT XP machine to PC B.
>
> Thx,
> Ann in PA
>

[bell-lady]

Thanks Walter. You are indeed right. The box I called a hub (and also net
modem) is the router.

My config looks like this:

---coax--->[cable modem]--cat5-->[router doing DHCP (has 5 ports, 1 'UP'
port and 4 client ports]---->cat5--->[3 PCs]

This router is reachable via 192.168.1.1 from inside the intranet, but it
also has a WAN port with an address from the ISP which would be the 'UP'
port to the cable modem, right?

The router runs DHCP for the intranet; I configured it to allow for 3
clients, and they may change IPs as they boot in a different order if the
router is also rebooted. They are numbered .1.101, .1.102 and .1.103. They
have been working for years with no problems, until last week. That I know
of no changes were made to any PC configurations except Critical Updates,
other than my locking them down, so I suspect I just didn't unlock something
on that PC or the XP PC. Its odd that all other connectivity is fine except
FROM XP TO PC B, even the reverse direction works OK.

Thanks for clarifying hub vs. router, I ALWAYS have trouble with that
nomenclature although I do understand the difference in function, I think!

Ann in PA

[Walter Clayton]

OK. A couple of things. First, the free version of ZA isn't appropriate for
the configuration you have. It's possible to configure it to behave, but
it's really difficult and you have to know what you're doing. Same thing
with XP's built-in firewall. There are other 3rd party firewalls, including
ZA Pro, Kerio, Sygate and others, that can be configured relatively easily
for use on an intranet. However you have router doing NAT for traffic that's
hitting the internet. Although not a true firewall, it's just about as
effective in most instances. Some one would have to hack the router first
since it's the only device exposed with a routable address. Also, depending
on the topology of the cable company, you may be sitting on a private
network implemented by them so you'd be even further removed. If you log
into the router you can see what IP it's leased on the WAN side, or you can
simply do a tracert to yahoo.com and look at the first hop address. If that
address is in the 10.0.0.0 thru 10.255.255.255, 172.16.0.0 thru
172.31.255.255 or 192.168.0.0 thru 192.168.255.255 range then your cable
company is routing all your traffic through an internal network which puts
one more layer of protection between you and the internet. Note however that
technically you're exposed to other users on the cable network, but since
you're sitting behind a router getting into your LAN is still problematic
unless your router is hacked.

Regardless. Uninstall ZA on all machines and make sure nothing's gotten
worse. If you loose existing connectivity, reinstall and uninstall again. ZA
has a funky uninstaller that some times doesn't work correctly and leaves
the TCP stack in limbo.

Do you have the shares on PC B password protected? If so, remove the
password and see what happens. Word of advice here. Don't bother with
password protected shares on 9x. They don't work well and do not transition
to XP.

--
Walter Clayton - MS MVP(WinXP)
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
http://www.dts-l.org
http://support.microsoft.com/servicedesks/fileversion/default.asp


"bell-lady" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks Walter. You are indeed right. The box I called a hub (and also net
> modem) is the router.
>
> My config looks like this:
>
> ---coax--->[cable modem]--cat5-->[router doing DHCP (has 5 ports, 1 'UP'
> port and 4 client ports]---->cat5--->[3 PCs]
>
> This router is reachable via 192.168.1.1 from inside the intranet, but it
> also has a WAN port with an address from the ISP which would be the 'UP'
> port to the cable modem, right?
>
> The router runs DHCP for the intranet; I configured it to allow for 3
> clients, and they may change IPs as they boot in a different order if the
> router is also rebooted. They are numbered .1.101, .1.102 and .1.103.
They
> have been working for years with no problems, until last week. That I know
> of no changes were made to any PC configurations except Critical Updates,
> other than my locking them down, so I suspect I just didn't unlock
something
> on that PC or the XP PC. Its odd that all other connectivity is fine
except
> FROM XP TO PC B, even the reverse direction works OK.
>
> Thanks for clarifying hub vs. router, I ALWAYS have trouble with that
> nomenclature although I do understand the difference in function, I think!
>
> Ann in PA
>

[bell-lady]

Walter,

Durn! Didn't do any good!

I removed ZA from both PC A and XP machine, and removed the passwords from
PC B share, but the situation is still the same. Everyone can see everyone's
shares except XP can't see PC B's. All can get to internet, and to the
router to log in. I can tracert by IP to PC B from XP and it is the first
hop out. (BTW I tracert yahoo.com and it does NOT go thru any 192 addresses,
it starts with a 10.X address; is that good??)

When XP goes to Network Places, I choose Entire network, then Windows
network, then I can see all 3 PCs listed. Is that normal? But then if I
click on PC B it just hangs and hangs and I have to End Task, or it MAY
EVENTUALLY (like minutes) tell me it can't find it. The other 2 PCs show the
next level as expected.

Any more suggestions? You've been such a big help, and so patient...don't
give up yet! It worked until the lockdown (or maybe it was something else
during that time, but I wouldn't know what except the last Critical
Update??)

Thx,
Ann in PA

[bell-lady]

Is there anything I could have set in Networking on PC B's WIn98SE that
another Win98 could ignore, but XP wouldn't? That's sort of what it 'feels
like' ...

Ann in PA

[Walter Clayton]

Ahhhh. Network Neighborhood hangs. Those are a tough nut to crack. :-/

The fact the initial hop to yahoo.com starts with a 10.x.x.x IP address
indicates you're sitting behind the cable companies network. That's neither
good nor bad, but it does mean that it there is another layer of insulation
between you and the internet.

Back to NN hangs. Try mapping a drive directly from the XP box to PC B via
UNC. Do start->run->cmd [enter]. Then in the command prompt box type in

net use z: \\PCB\sharename

where PCB is the machine name of PC B and sharename is the name of a share
on the PC. If need be, you can map a drive on PC A to PC B to see what those
values are.

--
Walter Clayton - MS MVP(WinXP)
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
http://www.dts-l.org
http://support.microsoft.com/servicedesks/fileversion/default.asp


"bell-lady" > wrote in message
...
> Walter,
>
> Durn! Didn't do any good!
>
> I removed ZA from both PC A and XP machine, and removed the passwords from
> PC B share, but the situation is still the same. Everyone can see
everyone's
> shares except XP can't see PC B's. All can get to internet, and to the
> router to log in. I can tracert by IP to PC B from XP and it is the first
> hop out. (BTW I tracert yahoo.com and it does NOT go thru any 192
addresses,
> it starts with a 10.X address; is that good??)
>
> When XP goes to Network Places, I choose Entire network, then Windows
> network, then I can see all 3 PCs listed. Is that normal? But then if I
> click on PC B it just hangs and hangs and I have to End Task, or it MAY
> EVENTUALLY (like minutes) tell me it can't find it. The other 2 PCs show
the
> next level as expected.
>
> Any more suggestions? You've been such a big help, and so patient...don't
> give up yet! It worked until the lockdown (or maybe it was something else
> during that time, but I wouldn't know what except the last Critical
> Update??)
>
> Thx,
> Ann in PA
>
>

[Walter Clayton]

Try directly mapping a drive first. Then we'll take a stab at NN.

--
Walter Clayton - MS MVP(WinXP)
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
http://www.dts-l.org
http://support.microsoft.com/servicedesks/fileversion/default.asp


"bell-lady" > wrote in message
...
> Is there anything I could have set in Networking on PC B's WIn98SE that
> another Win98 could ignore, but XP wouldn't? That's sort of what it 'feels
> like' ...
>
> Ann in PA
>

[bell-lady]

Actually drive mapping is where the problem started!
To answer your request:

I can map one of my XP folders as a drive on PC-B. I cannot go the other
way.
Having PC-B folder mapped to XP was how we've worked all these months
(years?) before it quit working.

Well, I tried it again, just now, after doing the ZA deletes and un-naming
stuff and by George it worked! Admittedly it took over 30 seconds to open up
that PC inthe Browse window, and still does, but it worked!

Now, explain why, and what can I do to make it fast like the other PC! (I
guess that's kind of like the preacher says - why are we astonished when we
get what we pray for?? I asked for help and got it *yeah*)

Astonished Ann in PA

[Walter Clayton]

I've been mulling on this one while fighting other fires that you really
don't want to hear about. :-)

There's no simple answer, however how are things working now that the ice
dam has been broken? One thing may be a possible issue with rule sets on the
router, depending on what you have and how configurable it happens to be.

--
Walter Clayton - MS MVP(WinXP)
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
http://www.dts-l.org
http://support.microsoft.com/servicedesks/fileversion/default.asp


"bell-lady" > wrote in message
...
> Actually drive mapping is where the problem started!
> To answer your request:
>
> I can map one of my XP folders as a drive on PC-B. I cannot go the other
> way.
> Having PC-B folder mapped to XP was how we've worked all these months
> (years?) before it quit working.
>
> Well, I tried it again, just now, after doing the ZA deletes and un-naming
> stuff and by George it worked! Admittedly it took over 30 seconds to open
up
> that PC inthe Browse window, and still does, but it worked!
>
> Now, explain why, and what can I do to make it fast like the other PC! (I
> guess that's kind of like the preacher says - why are we astonished when
we
> get what we pray for?? I asked for help and got it *yeah*)
>
> Astonished Ann in PA
>