Defragging a New XP Install

[FLATLINE]

Ive been building and troubleshooting computers for a couple years now for
friends and such. One thing I dont understand is how a freshly formatted
drive could be fragmented. This just seems crazy to me. Some files cant be
moved or deleted like some Media player Uninstall files. The reason this
seams crazy to me is that If im building a house the foundation should be
done right. Right? Well my install was an attempt on my part to strengthen
the foundation and when its fragmented from the start and wont defrag im not
building a very good foundation am I? The solution to me is quite simple.
give us the ability to customize our program further by unloading all sorts
of this junk XP loads in. And whats the deal with the Reserved System Space?
Has this always been there? I dont remember it ever being that large. I know
all about it from research on these forums and such but for one why does it
need to be so big? Why does Microsoft feel the need to protect ignorant users
with features as these while limiting people who know what they need and
dont. On a 30 gig drive the reserved space is taking up one third of my
drive. I dont see why I cant have the control over my own drive. This space
is no doubt causing me from having a fragment free drive and Im seriously
annoyed. I never use up more than 50% of my drive with the OS on it. So I
dont need this amount of space controlled for me. What are my options?

[Gerry Cornell]

Select Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools, Disk CleanUp to
Empty your Recycle Bin and Remove Temporary Internet Files. Also
select Start, All Programs, accessories, System Tools, Disk CleanUp,
More Options, System Restore and remove all but the latest System
Restore point.

The default allocation to System Restore is 12% of your C partition
which is over generous. I would reduce it to 700 mb. Right click your
My Computer icon on the Desktop and select System Restore. Place the
cursor on your C drive select Settings but this time find the slider
and drag it to the left until it reads 700 mb and exit. When you get
to the Settings screen click on Apply and OK and exit.

Another default setting which could be wasteful is that for temporary
internet files, especially if you do not store offline copies on disk.
The default allocation is 3% of drive. Depending on your attitude to
offline copies you could reduce this to 1% or 2%. In Internet Explorer
select Tools, Internet Options, General, Temporary Internet Files,
Settings to make the change. At the same time look at the number of
days history is held.

The default allocation for the Recycle Bin is 10 % of drive. Change to
5%, which should be sufficient. In Windows Explorer place the cursor
on your Recycle Bin, right click and select Properties, Global and
move the slider from 10% to 5%. However, try to avoid letting it get
too full as if it is full and you delete a file by mistake it will
bypass the Recycle Bin and be gone for ever.

When you have made these changes restart your computer and run Disk
Defragmenter.


--

Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


FLATLINE wrote:
> Ive been building and troubleshooting computers for a couple
> years now for friends and such. One thing I dont understand is
> how a freshly formatted drive could be fragmented. This just
> seems crazy to me. Some files cant be moved or deleted like some
> Media player Uninstall files. The reason this seams crazy to me
> is that If im building a house the foundation should be done
> right. Right? Well my install was an attempt on my part to
> strengthen the foundation and when its fragmented from the start
> and wont defrag im not building a very good foundation am I? The
> solution to me is quite simple. give us the ability to customize
> our program further by unloading all sorts of this junk XP loads
> in. And whats the deal with the Reserved System Space? Has this
> always been there? I dont remember it ever being that large. I
> know all about it from research on these forums and such but for
> one why does it need to be so big? Why does Microsoft feel the
> need to protect ignorant users with features as these while
> limiting people who know what they need and dont. On a 30 gig
> drive the reserved space is taking up one third of my drive. I
> dont see why I cant have the control over my own drive. This
> space is no doubt causing me from having a fragment free drive
> and Im seriously annoyed. I never use up more than 50% of my
> drive with the OS on it. So I dont need this amount of space
> controlled for me. What are my options?

[Gordon]

"Gerry Cornell" > wrote in message
...
> Select Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools, Disk CleanUp to
> Empty your Recycle Bin and Remove Temporary Internet Files. Also
> select Start, All Programs, accessories, System Tools, Disk CleanUp,
> More Options, System Restore and remove all but the latest System
> Restore point.>

Oh dear. Just read what the op posted as below.....he doesn't want to know
how to do it, he wants to know why a FRESH INSTALL needs defragging.......
Sorry Gerry, as I've said before, get back to your auditing and leave the
IT stuff to us Systems Accountants.....


>
> FLATLINE wrote:
>> Ive been building and troubleshooting computers for a couple
>> years now for friends and such. One thing I dont understand is
>> how a freshly formatted drive could be fragmented.

[Shenan Stanley]

FLATLINE wrote:
> Ive been building and troubleshooting computers for a couple years
> now for friends and such. One thing I dont understand is how a
> freshly formatted drive could be fragmented. This just seems crazy
> to me. Some files cant be moved or deleted like some Media player
> Uninstall files. The reason this seams crazy to me is that If im
> building a house the foundation should be done right. Right? Well
> my install was an attempt on my part to strengthen the foundation
> and when its fragmented from the start and wont defrag im not
> building a very good foundation am I? The solution to me is quite
> simple. give us the ability to customize our program further by
> unloading all sorts of this junk XP loads in. And whats the deal
> with the Reserved System Space? Has this always been there? I dont
> remember it ever being that large. I know all about it from
> research on these forums and such but for one why does it need to
> be so big? Why does Microsoft feel the need to protect ignorant
> users with features as these while limiting people who know what
> they need and dont. On a 30 gig drive the reserved space is taking
> up one third of my drive. I dont see why I cant have the control
> over my own drive. This space is no doubt causing me from having a
> fragment free drive and Im seriously annoyed. I never use up more
> than 50% of my drive with the OS on it. So I dont need this amount
> of space controlled for me. What are my options?

Customize your installation media to suite your needs.
Using various things you can automate the install and eliminate a bunch of
unnecessary components. You can set defaults and the like.

unattended.msfn.org is a good place to start a customized CD install.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

[Gerry Cornell]

Gordon

The answer to his question is self evident. Installing an operating
system and programmes involves writing many temporary files to disk.
Some are used to install programmes and there is also the creation of
log files . These can then be removed or not removed depending on
whether the user chooses to do so. Also as you install programmes
changes get made to the registry and to the MFT file. Fragmentation is
inevitable.

Given that it is inevitable there is little point in dwelling upon
what cannot be avoided. The answer is to clean up and move on.

"leave the IT stuff to us". The power of your intellect puts us lesser
mortals to shame! What a little sunbeam you are!


--

Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Gordon wrote:
> "Gerry Cornell" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Select Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools, Disk
>> CleanUp to Empty your Recycle Bin and Remove Temporary Internet
>> Files. Also select Start, All Programs, accessories, System
>> Tools, Disk CleanUp, More Options, System Restore and remove all
>> but the latest System Restore point.>
>
> Oh dear. Just read what the op posted as below.....he doesn't
> want to know how to do it, he wants to know why a FRESH INSTALL
> needs defragging....... Sorry Gerry, as I've said before, get
> back to your auditing and leave the IT stuff to us Systems
> Accountants.....
>
>>
>> FLATLINE wrote:
>>> Ive been building and troubleshooting computers for a couple
>>> years now for friends and such. One thing I dont understand is
>>> how a freshly formatted drive could be fragmented.

[JD]

Gerry Cornell wrote:
> Select Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools, Disk CleanUp to
> Empty your Recycle Bin and Remove Temporary Internet Files. Also
> select Start, All Programs, accessories, System Tools, Disk CleanUp,
> More Options, System Restore and remove all but the latest System
> Restore point.
>
> The default allocation to System Restore is 12% of your C partition
> which is over generous. I would reduce it to 700 mb. Right click your
> My Computer icon on the Desktop and select System Restore. Place the
> cursor on your C drive select Settings but this time find the slider
> and drag it to the left until it reads 700 mb and exit. When you get
> to the Settings screen click on Apply and OK and exit.
>
> Another default setting which could be wasteful is that for temporary
> internet files, especially if you do not store offline copies on disk.
> The default allocation is 3% of drive. Depending on your attitude to
> offline copies you could reduce this to 1% or 2%. In Internet Explorer
> select Tools, Internet Options, General, Temporary Internet Files,
> Settings to make the change. At the same time look at the number of
> days history is held.
>
> The default allocation for the Recycle Bin is 10 % of drive. Change to
> 5%, which should be sufficient. In Windows Explorer place the cursor
> on your Recycle Bin, right click and select Properties, Global and
> move the slider from 10% to 5%. However, try to avoid letting it get
> too full as if it is full and you delete a file by mistake it will
> bypass the Recycle Bin and be gone for ever.
>
> When you have made these changes restart your computer and run Disk
> Defragmenter.
>
>

I'm not so sure you answered the original question but you've certainly
provided me with some new information regarding XP settings that are, as
you said,"over generous".

I didn't know I could set the size of the recycle bin. And I'm still
resizing my System Restore to get it to only save about two weeks worth.

Thanks!

--
JD..

[Gerry Cornell]

JD

Installing an operating system and programmes involves writing many
temporary files to disk. Some are used to install programmes and there
is also the creation of log files . These can then be removed or not
removed depending on whether the user chooses to do so. Also as you
install programmes changes get made to the registry and to the MFT
file. Fragmentation is inevitable.

Given that it is inevitable there is little point in dwelling upon
what cannot be avoided. The answer is to clean up and move on.

--

Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


JD wrote:

>>
>
> I'm not so sure you answered the original question but you've
> certainly provided me with some new information regarding XP
> settings that are, as you said,"over generous".
>
> I didn't know I could set the size of the recycle bin. And I'm
> still resizing my System Restore to get it to only save about two
> weeks worth.
> Thanks!

[JD]

Gerry Cornell wrote:
>
> JD
>
> Installing an operating system and programmes involves writing many
> temporary files to disk. Some are used to install programmes and there
> is also the creation of log files . These can then be removed or not
> removed depending on whether the user chooses to do so. Also as you
> install programmes changes get made to the registry and to the MFT file.
> Fragmentation is inevitable.
>
> Given that it is inevitable there is little point in dwelling upon what
> cannot be avoided. The answer is to clean up and move on.
>

On the cleanup of the temporary internet files, I'm using IE6 and my
settings for the size of space for these files is not a percent but just
a number of mbs. I have mine set to 100 mb because I only use IE6 for
windows updates. I have a 80 gb hard drive. Is that a good size for my
temporary internet files or too small?

--
JD..

[Gerry Cornell]

JD

How full does it get it? Base sizing on what you see.

Doesn't Mozilla create a similar equivalent?


--

Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JD wrote:
> Gerry Cornell wrote:
>>
>> JD
>>
>> Installing an operating system and programmes involves writing
>> many temporary files to disk. Some are used to install
>> programmes and there is also the creation of log files . These
>> can then be removed or not removed depending on whether the user
>> chooses to do so. Also as you install programmes changes get
>> made to the registry and to the MFT file. Fragmentation is
>> inevitable.
>>
>> Given that it is inevitable there is little point in dwelling
>> upon what cannot be avoided. The answer is to clean up and move
>> on.
>>
>
> On the cleanup of the temporary internet files, I'm using IE6 and
> my settings for the size of space for these files is not a
> percent but just a number of mbs. I have mine set to 100 mb
> because I only use IE6 for windows updates. I have a 80 gb hard
> drive. Is that a good size for my temporary internet files or too
> small? v

[JD]

Gerry Cornell wrote:
> JD
>
> How full does it get it? Base sizing on what you see.
>
> Doesn't Mozilla create a similar equivalent?
>
>

How do I tell how full it gets?

I guess Mozilla creates a similar equivalent but I'm not sure where the
setting is. Actually, I'm using SeaMonkey but I guess that's something I
need to look at.

--
JD..

[Gerry Cornell]

JD

Right click on folder and select Properties?


--

Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


JD wrote:
> Gerry Cornell wrote:
>> JD
>>
>> How full does it get it? Base sizing on what you see.
>>
>> Doesn't Mozilla create a similar equivalent?
>>
>>
>
> How do I tell how full it gets?
>
> I guess Mozilla creates a similar equivalent but I'm not sure
> where the setting is. Actually, I'm using SeaMonkey but I guess
> that's something I need to look at.

[JD]

Gerry Cornell wrote:
> JD
>
> Right click on folder and select Properties?
>
>

That makes sense. I had just deleted all the files so I'll check later.

In SeaMonkey, it's called the Cache. I have a toolbar that lets me clear
it rather easily.

--
JD..

[FLATLINE]

Wow im looking back on my post and I sound like a jerk. LOL Im sorry for
that. I was a bit frustrated that day. I think the problem is that the drive
supporting my OS was only 30 gigs. I dont have this problem on my Dell with a
40 gig drive or my HP Laptop with a 120gig drive. But im still really
confused with this Reserved System Space. I understand Window will write to
this space if it has to but why is it reserved now? Whats the logic behind
this as opposed to just leaving it free? Is it reserved for something in
particular?

[Dennis McCunney]

FLATLINE wrote:
> Wow im looking back on my post and I sound like a jerk. LOL Im sorry for
> that. I was a bit frustrated that day. I think the problem is that the drive
> supporting my OS was only 30 gigs. I dont have this problem on my Dell with a
> 40 gig drive or my HP Laptop with a 120gig drive. But im still really
> confused with this Reserved System Space. I understand Window will write to
> this space if it has to but why is it reserved now? Whats the logic behind
> this as opposed to just leaving it free? Is it reserved for something in
> particular?

If the Reserved System Space you are talking about is what I think it
is, it's the Windows page file.

Windows is a virtual memory system. Total memory is the amount of RAM
plus the size of the page file. Windows divides actual RAM into 4K
"pages", and keeps track of what is in them. When you run programs,
they ask Windows for X amount of RAM to work in. If there isn't enough
free RAM to satisfy the request, Windows will take memory pages that
haven't been accessed recently and swap them to the page file to free
the RAM for the new program.

Windows keeps track of what is where. If something tries to access a
memory page that was swapped out to disk, a "page fault" is generated,
and Windows swaps the desired page(s) back in.

Windows normally manages memory, and dynamically grows and shrinks the
page file as required. It's possible to specify the size and location
of the page file, but it's normally better to let Windows handle it.

Windows must *have* a page file, no matter how much actual RAM you have.

The other thing that might be Reserved System Space is the Recycle Bin.
Windows allocates a percentage of your hard drive off the top for the
Recycle Bin, to give it a place to store deleted files. (I believe the
default is 15%.) This is global by default across all hard drives, if
you have more than one. (I have seven.) If you right-click on the
Recycle Bin and click properties, you can change this, configure drives
independently, and expand, reduce, or eliminate the Recycle Bin
entirely. (If you do that, stuff you delete is permanently deleted when
you do it, because there is no place allocated to stash it in case you
change your mind.)
______
Dennis

[Sharon F]

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:44:03 -0700, FLATLINE wrote:

> But im still really
> confused with this Reserved System Space.

Some drivers will lock space when they load and the address spaces they
occupy will account for some of this real estate. Another posts tells some
of the other things that fall under that category.

--
Sharon F
MS-MVP ~ Windows Shell/User

[FLATLINE]

That makes alot of sense I appreciate the info given. I also found two
programs that helped me accomplish my goals on this now ancient pentium 3
machine. Xplite allowed me to get rid of all the unnecessary components in XP
I didnt want. I freed up a considerable amount of space eliminating programs
and utilities I have replaced long ago. The 2nd program is called Diskeeper.
This program is worlds better than whats included in XP. It has finally
allowed me to completely defrag my drive and also improved system
performance. Small increase on an already heavily tweeked machine.