Re: Will Microsoft sell me installation disks for my OEM version?

[D. Spencer Hines]

Good Advice!

That hidden partition is going to take how much wasted space on the HDD --
for Vista Ultimate?...

Space that could otherwise be used for data.

One needs to take that into account when buying a HDD.

DSH

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message
...

> Since you bought, OEM and are not a Microsoft customer, No.
> If you want install media and did not get it, Sony is your only source
> unless you are willing to pay full price.
>
> All the OEMs are required is to furnish some way to restore to original
> condition and this requirement is often met using a hidden partition on
> the hard drive.
>
> Usually there is a way to make your own restore media.
> Check your manual or contact Sony for details.
>
> Or if nothing else meets with your approval, return the computer.
> Be sure to write a letter to Sony explaining why you returned it and what
> you bought instead.
>
> --
> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
> http://www.dts-l.org
>
>
> "PTravel" > wrote in message
> ...

>> Vista Business came pre-installed on my new Sony Vaio laptop. Sony
>> doesn't provide installation disks -- if something goes wrong, the only
>> option is to re-install entirely, either from an image backup or from the
>> original installation that resides in a protected partition on the hard
>> drive. Re-installation from the hard drive takes 3 hours and installs all
>> the demo crapware that takes another hour to remove. Re-installing from
>> the image backup is slightly faster, but you run the risk of installing
>> from a backup created later than whatever damage you are trying to undo.
>>
>> Will Microsoft sell me a proper set of installation disks?

[PTravel]

"D. Spencer Hines" > wrote in message
...
> Good Advice!
>
> That hidden partition is going to take how much wasted space on the HDD --
> for Vista Ultimate?...

On my machine close to 7 gig. I can't figure out anyway to unlock the
partition without doing a complete re-install.

>
> Space that could otherwise be used for data.
>
> One needs to take that into account when buying a HDD.

Yes, another surprise that Sony didn't disclose pre-purchase. I bought my
laptop with a 100 gig drive, based on my usage requirements for my previous
machine as well as the amount of space that Vista needs. If I knew that 7
gig would be sacrificed in this fashion, I'd have bought a 120 gig machine.

>
> DSH
>
> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Since you bought, OEM and are not a Microsoft customer, No.
>> If you want install media and did not get it, Sony is your only source
>> unless you are willing to pay full price.
>>
>> All the OEMs are required is to furnish some way to restore to original
>> condition and this requirement is often met using a hidden partition on
>> the hard drive.
>>
>> Usually there is a way to make your own restore media.
>> Check your manual or contact Sony for details.
>>
>> Or if nothing else meets with your approval, return the computer.
>> Be sure to write a letter to Sony explaining why you returned it and what
>> you bought instead.
>>
>> --
>> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
>> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
>> http://www.dts-l.org
>>
>>
>> "PTravel" > wrote in message
>> ...
>
>>> Vista Business came pre-installed on my new Sony Vaio laptop. Sony
>>> doesn't provide installation disks -- if something goes wrong, the only
>>> option is to re-install entirely, either from an image backup or from
>>> the original installation that resides in a protected partition on the
>>> hard drive. Re-installation from the hard drive takes 3 hours and
>>> installs all the demo crapware that takes another hour to remove.
>>> Re-installing from the image backup is slightly faster, but you run the
>>> risk of installing from a backup created later than whatever damage you
>>> are trying to undo.
>>>
>>> Will Microsoft sell me a proper set of installation disks?
>
>

[D. Spencer Hines]

Yes... Makes Sense -- 120 GB drive vice 100 GB.

I'll bet the Vista ULTIMATE hidden partition takes up more than 7 GB.

What do you do if your HDD crashes and you lose everything, including the
hidden partition?...

Go begging to Sony?...

Or buy another Vista Business at full price?

Dell gave me XP Pro SP2 discs with this machine -- but I've been led to
understand they have stopped doing that.

We have all of this heartburn and PITA because of software thieves and
pirates who didn't follow the previous simpler rules and a wacko Supreme
Court that socked it to Microsoft, just because they were better at what
they did than anyone else.

The Honest Suffer.

DSH

"PTravel" > wrote in message
...

> "D. Spencer Hines" > wrote in message
> ...

>> Good Advice!
>>
>> That hidden partition is going to take how much wasted space on the
>> HDD -- for Vista Ultimate?...
>
> On my machine close to 7 gig. I can't figure out anyway to unlock the
> partition without doing a complete re-install.
>
>> Space that could otherwise be used for data.
>>
>> One needs to take that into account when buying a HDD.
>
> Yes, another surprise that Sony didn't disclose pre-purchase. I bought my
> laptop with a 100 gig drive, based on my usage requirements for my
> previous machine as well as the amount of space that Vista needs. If I
> knew that 7 gig would be sacrificed in this fashion, I'd have bought a 120
> gig machine.
>
>>
>> DSH
>>
>> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> Since you bought, OEM and are not a Microsoft customer, No.
>>> If you want install media and did not get it, Sony is your only source
>>> unless you are willing to pay full price.
>>>
>>> All the OEMs are required is to furnish some way to restore to original
>>> condition and this requirement is often met using a hidden partition on
>>> the hard drive.
>>>
>>> Usually there is a way to make your own restore media.
>>> Check your manual or contact Sony for details.
>>>
>>> Or if nothing else meets with your approval, return the computer.
>>> Be sure to write a letter to Sony explaining why you returned it and
>>> what you bought instead.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
>>> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
>>> http://www.dts-l.org
>>>
>>>
>>> "PTravel" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>
>>>> Vista Business came pre-installed on my new Sony Vaio laptop. Sony
>>>> doesn't provide installation disks -- if something goes wrong, the only
>>>> option is to re-install entirely, either from an image backup or from
>>>> the original installation that resides in a protected partition on the
>>>> hard drive. Re-installation from the hard drive takes 3 hours and
>>>> installs all the demo crapware that takes another hour to remove.
>>>> Re-installing from the image backup is slightly faster, but you run the
>>>> risk of installing from a backup created later than whatever damage you
>>>> are trying to undo.
>>>>
>>>> Will Microsoft sell me a proper set of installation disks?

[PTravel]

"D. Spencer Hines" > wrote in message
...
> Yes... Makes Sense -- 120 GB drive vice 100 GB.
>
> I'll bet the Vista ULTIMATE hidden partition takes up more than 7 GB.

That's what Drive Management reports.

>
> What do you do if your HDD crashes and you lose everything, including the
> hidden partition?...
>
> Go begging to Sony?...

Yup. When I called Sony to try to get restore disks, I asked this very
question. The answer was, essentially, "Call us if that happens."

>
> Or buy another Vista Business at full price?

As another poster noted, that won't have the Sony-specific drivers that my
laptop needs (though some, possibly all, are available for download on
Sony's website).

>
> Dell gave me XP Pro SP2 discs with this machine -- but I've been led to
> understand they have stopped doing that.
>
> We have all of this heartburn and PITA because of software thieves and
> pirates who didn't follow the previous simpler rules and a wacko Supreme
> Court that socked it to Microsoft, just because they were better at what
> they did than anyone else.

That's not why Microsoft was sued, nor did the Supreme Court sock it to
Microsoft. Given that this is a Microsoft news server, this isn't really
the place to discuss how Microsoft achieved its near-monopolist status,
though I will say that it has nothing to do with bundling Internet Explorer
with the OS. I have, however, litigated that particular issue and, though
confidentiality precludes my discussing any aspect of the case, I will say
that the Justice Department could have done a far better job.

As for the pirates, I will say this: one of my clients is a pretty
significant computer game developer. They estimate that as much as 80% of
their product in China is counterfeit. Nonetheless, they still make money
from that market. They did so by adopting a business model that isn't
dependent on primary sale of original product. If they can do it, I'm sure
that a company as creative and technologically adept as Microsoft can do the
same.

>
> The Honest Suffer.
>
> DSH
>
> "PTravel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> "D. Spencer Hines" > wrote in message
>> ...
>
>>> Good Advice!
>>>
>>> That hidden partition is going to take how much wasted space on the
>>> HDD -- for Vista Ultimate?...
>>
>> On my machine close to 7 gig. I can't figure out anyway to unlock the
>> partition without doing a complete re-install.
>>
>>> Space that could otherwise be used for data.
>>>
>>> One needs to take that into account when buying a HDD.
>>
>> Yes, another surprise that Sony didn't disclose pre-purchase. I bought
>> my
>> laptop with a 100 gig drive, based on my usage requirements for my
>> previous machine as well as the amount of space that Vista needs. If I
>> knew that 7 gig would be sacrificed in this fashion, I'd have bought a
>> 120
>> gig machine.
>>
>>>
>>> DSH
>>>
>>> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> Since you bought, OEM and are not a Microsoft customer, No.
>>>> If you want install media and did not get it, Sony is your only source
>>>> unless you are willing to pay full price.
>>>>
>>>> All the OEMs are required is to furnish some way to restore to original
>>>> condition and this requirement is often met using a hidden partition on
>>>> the hard drive.
>>>>
>>>> Usually there is a way to make your own restore media.
>>>> Check your manual or contact Sony for details.
>>>>
>>>> Or if nothing else meets with your approval, return the computer.
>>>> Be sure to write a letter to Sony explaining why you returned it and
>>>> what you bought instead.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
>>>> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
>>>> http://www.dts-l.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "PTravel" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>
>>>>> Vista Business came pre-installed on my new Sony Vaio laptop. Sony
>>>>> doesn't provide installation disks -- if something goes wrong, the
>>>>> only
>>>>> option is to re-install entirely, either from an image backup or from
>>>>> the original installation that resides in a protected partition on the
>>>>> hard drive. Re-installation from the hard drive takes 3 hours and
>>>>> installs all the demo crapware that takes another hour to remove.
>>>>> Re-installing from the image backup is slightly faster, but you run
>>>>> the
>>>>> risk of installing from a backup created later than whatever damage
>>>>> you
>>>>> are trying to undo.
>>>>>
>>>>> Will Microsoft sell me a proper set of installation disks?
>
>

[D. Spencer Hines]

"PTravel" > wrote in message
...
> "D. Spencer Hines" > wrote in message
> ...

>> Yes... Makes Sense -- 120 GB drive vice 100 GB.
>>
>> I'll bet the Vista ULTIMATE hidden partition takes up more than 7 GB.
>
> That's what Drive Management reports.

But you are running Vista BUSINESS, RIGHT?

Ultimate will probably consume more disc space.

>> What do you do if your HDD crashes and you lose everything, including the
>> hidden partition?...
>>
>> Go begging to Sony?...
>
> Yup. When I called Sony to try to get restore disks, I asked this very
> question. The answer was, essentially, "Call us if that happens."

UNSAT.

They don't want to let you Game The System by asking "What If" Questions and
getting answers.

>> Or buy another Vista Business at full price?
>
> As another poster noted, that won't have the Sony-specific drivers that my
> laptop needs (though some, possibly all, are available for download on
> Sony's website).
>
>>
>> Dell gave me XP Pro SP2 discs with this machine -- but I've been led to
>> understand they have stopped doing that.
>>
>> We have all of this heartburn and PITA because of software thieves and
>> pirates who didn't follow the previous simpler rules and a wacko Supreme
>> Court that socked it to Microsoft, just because they were better at what
>> they did than anyone else.
>
> That's not why Microsoft was sued, nor did the Supreme Court sock it to
> Microsoft.

Nonsense! Of course it's the Reason.

> Given that this is a Microsoft news server, this isn't really
> the place to discuss how Microsoft achieved its near-monopolist status,
> though I will say that it has nothing to do with bundling Internet
> Explorer with the OS. I have, however, litigated that particular issue
> and, though confidentiality precludes my discussing any aspect of the
> case, I will say that the Justice Department could have done a far better
> job.

If you litigated it you have NO RIGHT to talk about it here. So you should
just decline to express any opinion at all and just say NO COMMENT from the
get go.

> As for the pirates, I will say this: one of my clients is a pretty
> significant computer game developer. They estimate that as much as 80% of
> their product in China is counterfeit. Nonetheless, they still make money
> from that market. They did so by adopting a business model that isn't
> dependent on primary sale of original product. If they can do it, I'm
> sure that a company as creative and technologically adept as Microsoft can
> do the same.

NO SALE.

NO American Corporation should have to compete in World Markets based on
that sort of cunniculan-pygan reasoning for a business model.

>> The Honest Suffer.
>>
>> DSH

And the lawyers feast on the weak, the lame and the roadkill. <g>

DSH

>> "PTravel" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> "D. Spencer Hines" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>
>>>> Good Advice!
>>>>
>>>> That hidden partition is going to take how much wasted space on the
>>>> HDD -- for Vista Ultimate?...
>>>
>>> On my machine close to 7 gig. I can't figure out anyway to unlock the
>>> partition without doing a complete re-install.
>>>
>>>> Space that could otherwise be used for data.
>>>>
>>>> One needs to take that into account when buying a HDD.
>>>
>>> Yes, another surprise that Sony didn't disclose pre-purchase. I bought
>>> my
>>> laptop with a 100 gig drive, based on my usage requirements for my
>>> previous machine as well as the amount of space that Vista needs. If I
>>> knew that 7 gig would be sacrificed in this fashion, I'd have bought a
>>> 120
>>> gig machine.

[PTravel]

"D. Spencer Hines" > wrote in message
...
> "PTravel" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "D. Spencer Hines" > wrote in message
>> ...
>
>>> Yes... Makes Sense -- 120 GB drive vice 100 GB.
>>>
>>> I'll bet the Vista ULTIMATE hidden partition takes up more than 7 GB.
>>
>> That's what Drive Management reports.
>
> But you are running Vista BUSINESS, RIGHT?
>
> Ultimate will probably consume more disc space.

Well, yes, but when I said 7 gigs, I was talking about Vista Business.

>
>>> What do you do if your HDD crashes and you lose everything, including
>>> the
>>> hidden partition?...
>>>
>>> Go begging to Sony?...
>>
>> Yup. When I called Sony to try to get restore disks, I asked this very
>> question. The answer was, essentially, "Call us if that happens."
>
> UNSAT.

I agree. The laptop was sold as a business machine. I can't fool around
with Sony telephone support if my machine dies. I do, however, keep a
backup image on a portable USB drive.

>
> They don't want to let you Game The System by asking "What If" Questions
> and
> getting answers.
>
>>> Or buy another Vista Business at full price?
>>
>> As another poster noted, that won't have the Sony-specific drivers that
>> my
>> laptop needs (though some, possibly all, are available for download on
>> Sony's website).
>>
>>>
>>> Dell gave me XP Pro SP2 discs with this machine -- but I've been led to
>>> understand they have stopped doing that.
>>>
>>> We have all of this heartburn and PITA because of software thieves and
>>> pirates who didn't follow the previous simpler rules and a wacko Supreme
>>> Court that socked it to Microsoft, just because they were better at what
>>> they did than anyone else.
>>
>> That's not why Microsoft was sued, nor did the Supreme Court sock it to
>> Microsoft.
>
> Nonsense! Of course it's the Reason.

Microsoft was sued because it has gained near monopolist status through a
variety of different means, none of which has anything to do with the
quality of their software and everything to do with questionable licensing
practices.

>
>> Given that this is a Microsoft news server, this isn't really
>> the place to discuss how Microsoft achieved its near-monopolist status,
>> though I will say that it has nothing to do with bundling Internet
>> Explorer with the OS. I have, however, litigated that particular issue
>> and, though confidentiality precludes my discussing any aspect of the
>> case, I will say that the Justice Department could have done a far better
>> job.
>
> If you litigated it you have NO RIGHT to talk about it here.

I have every right to talk about anything I want here.

> So you should just decline to express any opinion at all and just say NO
> COMMENT from the get go.

Why? I can express any opinion I want as long as I don't violate any
confidentiality obligations. I haven't, so you might want to cool your jets
a bit.

>
>> As for the pirates, I will say this: one of my clients is a pretty
>> significant computer game developer. They estimate that as much as 80%
>> of
>> their product in China is counterfeit. Nonetheless, they still make
>> money
>> from that market. They did so by adopting a business model that isn't
>> dependent on primary sale of original product. If they can do it, I'm
>> sure that a company as creative and technologically adept as Microsoft
>> can
>> do the same.
>
> NO SALE.
>
> NO American Corporation should have to compete in World Markets based on
> that sort of cunniculan-pygan reasoning for a business model.

As content providers have discovered, technology has changed the way they
must do business. Those who can adapt to the new marketplace will survive.
Those who can't won't. I assume you don't favor legislation requiring the
sale of buggy whips with the purchase of a new automobile. Buggy whip
manufacturers found other ways to make money, or they went under.


>
>>> The Honest Suffer.
>>>
>>> DSH
>
> And the lawyers feast on the weak, the lame and the roadkill. <g>

Not the ones I know. We all represent businesses who have disputes with
other businesses. However, I will share my favorite lawyer joke:

UCLA has stopped using rats in psychology department experiments, and now
uses lawyers instead. There are a variety of reasons why, but here are the
top three:

3. There are more lawyers than rats.
2. The researchers don't get attached to the lawyers like they did to the
rats.

But the primary reason:

1. There are some things even a rat won't do.

>
> DSH
>
>>> "PTravel" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> "D. Spencer Hines" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>
>>>>> Good Advice!
>>>>>
>>>>> That hidden partition is going to take how much wasted space on the
>>>>> HDD -- for Vista Ultimate?...
>>>>
>>>> On my machine close to 7 gig. I can't figure out anyway to unlock the
>>>> partition without doing a complete re-install.
>>>>
>>>>> Space that could otherwise be used for data.
>>>>>
>>>>> One needs to take that into account when buying a HDD.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, another surprise that Sony didn't disclose pre-purchase. I bought
>>>> my
>>>> laptop with a 100 gig drive, based on my usage requirements for my
>>>> previous machine as well as the amount of space that Vista needs. If I
>>>> knew that 7 gig would be sacrificed in this fashion, I'd have bought a
>>>> 120
>>>> gig machine.
>
>

[D. Spencer Hines]

"PTravel" > wrote in message
...

> "D. Spencer Hines" > wrote in message
> ...

>> "PTravel" > wrote in message
>> ...

>>> "D. Spencer Hines" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>
>>>> Yes... Makes Sense -- 120 GB drive vice 100 GB.
>>>>
>>>> I'll bet the Vista ULTIMATE hidden partition takes up more than 7 GB.
>>>
>>> That's what Drive Management reports.
>>
>> But you are running Vista BUSINESS, RIGHT?
>>
>> Ultimate will probably consume more disc space.
>
> Well, yes, but when I said 7 gigs, I was talking about Vista Business.

I KNOW THAT.

READ what is WRITTEN ABOVE. I referred to ULTIMATE.

"I'll bet the Vista ULTIMATE hidden partition takes up more than 7 GB."

And YOU said:

"That's what Drive Management reports."

Are you this DUMB as a LAWYER?

>>>> What do you do if your HDD crashes and you lose everything, including
>>>> the hidden partition?...
>>>>
>>>> Go begging to Sony?...
>>>
>>> Yup. When I called Sony to try to get restore disks, I asked this very
>>> question. The answer was, essentially, "Call us if that happens."
>>
>> UNSAT.
>
> I agree. The laptop was sold as a business machine. I can't fool around
> with Sony telephone support if my machine dies. I do, however, keep a
> backup image on a portable USB drive.

Which may prove to be WORTHLESS when you actually try to USE it.

You STILL don't GET it DO you?

>> They don't want to let you Game The System by asking "What If" Questions
>> and getting answers.

>>>> We have all of this heartburn and PITA because of software thieves and
>>>> pirates who didn't follow the previous simpler rules and a wacko
>>>> Supreme Court that socked it to Microsoft, just because they were
>>>> better at what they did than anyone else.
>>>
>>> That's not why Microsoft was sued, nor did the Supreme Court sock it to
>>> Microsoft.
>>
>> Nonsense! Of course it's the Reason.
>
> Microsoft was sued because it has gained near monopolist status through a
> variety of different means, none of which has anything to do with the
> quality of their software and everything to do with questionable licensing
> practices.

Nonsense. Microsoft was/is no STANDARD OIL.

Those Court Decisions have made life worse for all of us HONEST Microsoft
software users. Microsoft is fighting back the only way it can -- with
piracy protection up the yin-yang -- OUR yins and yangs.

What we have NOW is much worse that what we had BEFORE -- and the software
is FAR more expensive. Microsoft has to pay all those judgments against
it.

>>> Given that this is a Microsoft news server, this isn't really
>>> the place to discuss how Microsoft achieved its near-monopolist status,
>>> though I will say that it has nothing to do with bundling Internet
>>> Explorer with the OS. I have, however, litigated that particular issue
>>> and, though confidentiality precludes my discussing any aspect of the
>>> case, I will say that the Justice Department could have done a far
>>> better job.
>>
>> If you litigated it you have NO RIGHT to talk about it here.
>
> I have every right to talk about anything I want here.

Horse Manure.

You have no right to play peekaboo lawyer with us and express a slick, sly,
half-arsed opinion about the Justice Department-- then, when challenged,
pull the blanket down over your head and say you can't really talk about it.

Talk or don't talk. Don't play peekaboo lawyer with us.

>> So you should just decline to express any opinion at all and just say NO
>> COMMENT from the get go.
>
> Why? I can express any opinion I want as long as I don't violate any
> confidentiality obligations. I haven't, so you might want to cool your
> jets a bit.

FARBLONDJET!

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

[Unicorn]

D. Spencer Hines wrote:
> "PTravel" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "D. Spencer Hines" > wrote in message

>> As for the pirates, I will say this: one of my clients is a pretty
>> significant computer game developer. They estimate that as much as 80% of
>> their product in China is counterfeit. Nonetheless, they still make money
>> from that market. They did so by adopting a business model that isn't
>> dependent on primary sale of original product. If they can do it, I'm
>> sure that a company as creative and technologically adept as Microsoft can
>> do the same.
>
> NO SALE.
>
> NO American Corporation should have to compete in World Markets based on
> that sort of cunniculan-pygan reasoning for a business model.
>

Wake up and smell the coffee. Just because most US based businesses
live in the nice safe shell of state protection does not mean that they
should. I thought that one of the things you people (yes you people)
peddled to the world was how good you were and how great everything you
did was. If it is that good why do you need all this BS legal stuff to
prop up your failing business practices. The whole basis of business is
to make money. Making money through litigation is NOT productive (Even
our legal eagle poster would probably admit this). Nor is expecting a
cheque in the mail every week for something your grandfather invented
reasonable.

Instead of saying "NO American corporation should have to compete" you
should be saying we are innovators in the land of the free. Of course
we can compete. Compete and win.

[PTravel]

"Unicorn" > wrote in message
...

>Making money through litigation is NOT productive (Even our legal eagle
>poster would probably admit this).

Not only would I admit it -- this is what I tell my clients, i.e. "Never
look at litigation as a profit center." The calculus for my clients is
this: if the value of the intellectual property at issue exceeds the cost
of the litigation, then it makes sense to sue. Otherwise, it does not.