Maybe OT modem question.
 

I have a dual core XP machine and my dial up connection stopped
working. I have tried 3 different Win Modems. The modems install OK
and the diagnostics say it is connecting OK but when I try dialing
out, I get the message that there is no dial tone. That phone wire
works in a phone (same wire that plugs into the modem) I can also plug
a phone into the other port on the modem and dial out through it. I
tried swapping ports to be sure it wasn't just labeled wrong.
There is no activity on the line when I listen from another phone.
Any ideas?

Maybe OT modem question.
 

wrote:
I have a dual core XP machine and my dial up connection stopped
working. I have tried 3 different Win Modems. The modems install OK
and the diagnostics say it is connecting OK but when I try dialing
out, I get the message that there is no dial tone. That phone wire
works in a phone (same wire that plugs into the modem) I can also plug
a phone into the other port on the modem and dial out through it. I
tried swapping ports to be sure it wasn't just labeled wrong.
There is no activity on the line when I listen from another phone.
Any ideas?

You only get dial tone, when a circuit goes "Off Hook".

"The POTS phone line, with all phones on-hook, should measure around
48 volts DC. Taking a phone off-hook creates a DC signal path across
the pair, which is detected as loop current back at the central office.
This drops the voltage measured at the phone down to about 3 to 9 volts.
"

So if that loop current isn't flowing, then the CO may not notice you are there.
There's a tolerance on that, and if your device is out of spec,
you might not get recognized properly.

Generally, you want to review what is plugged into your phone circuits.
Back home, someone plugged in a strobe light which functions as a visual
ringer for the basement, and that device caused a problem with hook state.
The phone line has a limit on the number of loads. You start unplugging
toys your family has added, until the phone works again :-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringer_equivalence_number

"Subscriber telephone lines are usually limited to support
a load of 5 REN or less."

It's possible that's just for ringing issues. (I.e. Connect
6 REN, and nothing is ringing, because the ringing generator
is overloaded at the CO line drawer.)

*******

See the table here for a possible explanation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_connector

"The pins of the 6P6C connector are numbered 1 to 6"

1 2 3 4 5 6
1 1 --- circuit one, is the middle pair
2 2 --- circuit two, is outside that
3 3 --- circuit three

Normally, the installer is going to put the circuit
on pins 3,4. But just in case the circuit is moved to the
other pair at the punchdown block, then you could use an adapter
like this.

https://www.amazon.ca/Steren-4-Condu.../dp/B000E9U9MG

If all the phones are "line 1 phones", then they will be
sampling 3,4 when plugged in. To get the other circuits
to one of those phones, the adapter does the passive
re-wiring so a signal shows up.

3,4 2,5 1,6 Wall (one connector, all six wires)

3,4 3,4 3,4 Holes on output

(L1) (L2) (L3)

Then, all these phones that work off the 3,4 pins,
they can be plugged into some hole and they work.
And that's because the lineX output, is wired to
one of the various line pairs on the input side.

Those adapters aren't worth more than a buck or two,
so please don't tell me you paid $50 for a sample :-)
Even Radio Shack would have given you a better price
than the ones on that Amazon page.

And while the article details three lines being on
an RJ11 six pin, in practice I think the neighborhood
wiring is designed to run two lines per household easily.
If they run a four wire cable to your six pin RJ11, there
might be a Line1 and Line2. Maybe you ordered a line for
the phone, and one for the fax machine or something.
It would be more unusual for a house to have Line1, Line2,
Line3. If every house did that, there might not be enough
wires on the pole out in back of the house for it.

I think I have one of those wall adapters here somewhere. But
it's a Line1/Line2 two-holer. I only own the thing, for
the situation you're in, namely, seeing if the active pair
has been moved to the wrong pins, via a wiring change at
the punchdown block at the corner of your street. Normally
the installers don't do stuff like that by accident, but
I did have a dude out back of my house one day "stealing
my pair" for an order, and giving me some other pair.
I wasn't doing a download at the time, and I caught him in
the yard, before he'd cut anything.

Paul

Maybe OT modem question.
 

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 03:29:10 -0400, Paul
wrote:

wrote:
I have a dual core XP machine and my dial up connection stopped
working. I have tried 3 different Win Modems. The modems install OK
and the diagnostics say it is connecting OK but when I try dialing
out, I get the message that there is no dial tone. That phone wire
works in a phone (same wire that plugs into the modem) I can also plug
a phone into the other port on the modem and dial out through it. I
tried swapping ports to be sure it wasn't just labeled wrong.
There is no activity on the line when I listen from another phone.
Any ideas?

You only get dial tone, when a circuit goes "Off Hook".

"The POTS phone line, with all phones on-hook, should measure around
48 volts DC. Taking a phone off-hook creates a DC signal path across
the pair, which is detected as loop current back at the central office.
This drops the voltage measured at the phone down to about 3 to 9 volts.
"

So if that loop current isn't flowing, then the CO may not notice you are there.
There's a tolerance on that, and if your device is out of spec,
you might not get recognized properly.

Generally, you want to review what is plugged into your phone circuits.
Back home, someone plugged in a strobe light which functions as a visual
ringer for the basement, and that device caused a problem with hook state.
The phone line has a limit on the number of loads. You start unplugging
toys your family has added, until the phone works again :-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringer_equivalence_number

"Subscriber telephone lines are usually limited to support
a load of 5 REN or less."

It's possible that's just for ringing issues. (I.e. Connect
6 REN, and nothing is ringing, because the ringing generator
is overloaded at the CO line drawer.)

*******

See the table here for a possible explanation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_connector

"The pins of the 6P6C connector are numbered 1 to 6"

1 2 3 4 5 6
1 1 --- circuit one, is the middle pair
2 2 --- circuit two, is outside that
3 3 --- circuit three

Normally, the installer is going to put the circuit
on pins 3,4. But just in case the circuit is moved to the
other pair at the punchdown block, then you could use an adapter
like this.

https://www.amazon.ca/Steren-4-Condu.../dp/B000E9U9MG

If all the phones are "line 1 phones", then they will be
sampling 3,4 when plugged in. To get the other circuits
to one of those phones, the adapter does the passive
re-wiring so a signal shows up.

3,4 2,5 1,6 Wall (one connector, all six wires)

3,4 3,4 3,4 Holes on output

(L1) (L2) (L3)

Then, all these phones that work off the 3,4 pins,
they can be plugged into some hole and they work.
And that's because the lineX output, is wired to
one of the various line pairs on the input side.

Those adapters aren't worth more than a buck or two,
so please don't tell me you paid $50 for a sample :-)
Even Radio Shack would have given you a better price
than the ones on that Amazon page.

And while the article details three lines being on
an RJ11 six pin, in practice I think the neighborhood
wiring is designed to run two lines per household easily.
If they run a four wire cable to your six pin RJ11, there
might be a Line1 and Line2. Maybe you ordered a line for
the phone, and one for the fax machine or something.
It would be more unusual for a house to have Line1, Line2,
Line3. If every house did that, there might not be enough
wires on the pole out in back of the house for it.

I think I have one of those wall adapters here somewhere. But
it's a Line1/Line2 two-holer. I only own the thing, for
the situation you're in, namely, seeing if the active pair
has been moved to the wrong pins, via a wiring change at
the punchdown block at the corner of your street. Normally
the installers don't do stuff like that by accident, but
I did have a dude out back of my house one day "stealing
my pair" for an order, and giving me some other pair.
I wasn't doing a download at the time, and I caught him in
the yard, before he'd cut anything.

Paul

Thanks Paul but if I plug this cable into a regular phone it goes off
hook and I can dial so I am pretty sure it is wired OK. Also this used
to work.

Maybe OT modem question.
 

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 01:39:06 -0400, wrote:
I have a dual core XP machine and my dial up connection stopped
working. I have tried 3 different Win Modems. The modems install OK
and the diagnostics say it is connecting OK but when I try dialing
out, I get the message that there is no dial tone. That phone wire
works in a phone (same wire that plugs into the modem) I can also plug
a phone into the other port on the modem and dial out through it. I
tried swapping ports to be sure it wasn't just labeled wrong.
There is no activity on the line when I listen from another phone.
Any ideas?

If I'm not mistaken, land line telephone system has more than one standard.
Similar like TV signal standards e.g. NTSC-only or PAL-only on old TVs,
except that most TV nowadays support both standards. Or 110V vs 220V power
source standard in countries. Phones/faxes/modems only support one standard,
AFAIK. If this is the case, perhaps your modems aren't built for the phone
system used in your country.

Maybe OT modem question.
 

JJ wrote:
On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 01:39:06 -0400, wrote:
I have a dual core XP machine and my dial up connection stopped
working. I have tried 3 different Win Modems. The modems install OK
and the diagnostics say it is connecting OK but when I try dialing
out, I get the message that there is no dial tone. That phone wire
works in a phone (same wire that plugs into the modem) I can also plug
a phone into the other port on the modem and dial out through it. I
tried swapping ports to be sure it wasn't just labeled wrong.
There is no activity on the line when I listen from another phone.
Any ideas?

If I'm not mistaken, land line telephone system has more than one standard.
Similar like TV signal standards e.g. NTSC-only or PAL-only on old TVs,
except that most TV nowadays support both standards. Or 110V vs 220V power
source standard in countries. Phones/faxes/modems only support one standard,
AFAIK. If this is the case, perhaps your modems aren't built for the phone
system used in your country.

It's true that standards differ *between countries*,
but a consistent standard is used within a single country.

Battery in North America is nominal -48V.

Battery in Brazil is -80V.

The thresholds for off-hook will differ too, from
country to country.

There were two standards for digital data samples.
ulaw and Alaw. One used in North America, one used
in Europe. This is a scheme for dynamic range
compression, using a limited number of bits in
a voice sample, to give what is effectively more
bits of resolution to handle the dynamic range of
a call.

But within a single country, all the equipment works
to the same standard.

When they make the chip for the Line Cards (for POTS),
the chip is fully programmable at the register level.
It handles on the order of 20 different configurations
that cover the entire world. They don't have to
change cards because they're in Brazil, and one
design handles everything. You just have to program
it correctly before turning it on.

You can program it for Brazil, or you can program
it for North America. This makes the equipment using the
card, "universal".

If a business has a PABX (private automatic branch exchange),
the interface on that can be custom. A different connector
might be used in the cubicle. Normally there will be
warnings about plugging consumer gear into it.
So not every telephony problem has a simple solution.
But at least for consumers, normally you're dealing
with telco interfaces, and they're all using
the same standard.

A technician can wring out a telco line remotely, to get
some idea if the line is wet or whatever. And then
file a trouble ticket if line maintenance is required.

At the consumer end, you can do your part by re-wiring
the telephone. For example, my in-home wiring had
a corrosion problem with the receptacles near the
carpeting. I went downstairs, and disconnected
that network at the demarc. I got some four-wire
cable at my (only) electronics store (not a Radio Shack),
bored a hole in the floor in a closet, and ran a wire
up to the computer room from the demarc. Then, I had
flawless telephony and my problem was solved, and
all without a $99 truck roll with Bell. Many of the
problems with POTS, are in your house, and not actually
a problem on the pole.

My network here, used to consist of buried cable from the
CO to the corner of my street. And elevated phone wires
on poles, from the corner to each house, following
the right-of-way provided for utilities on the
back property line.

Since the advent of fiber optic transmission (replacing
the fat copper wire bundle, with a slim fiber to the
same Central Office), the failure rate is a lot lower.
The fat bundle of wires, needed to be "dried" at regular
intervals. A phone truck would show up with cylinders of
dry nitrogen gas, to flush the underground line.

Once fiber equipment replaced the punchdown blocks
and pedestals at the end of the street, reliability
went up. And the five hundred foot run of elevated
wire, seems to be quite good.

Paul

Maybe OT modem question.
 

On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 00:15:39 +0700, JJ wrote:

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 01:39:06 -0400, wrote:
I have a dual core XP machine and my dial up connection stopped
working. I have tried 3 different Win Modems. The modems install OK
and the diagnostics say it is connecting OK but when I try dialing
out, I get the message that there is no dial tone. That phone wire
works in a phone (same wire that plugs into the modem) I can also plug
a phone into the other port on the modem and dial out through it. I
tried swapping ports to be sure it wasn't just labeled wrong.
There is no activity on the line when I listen from another phone.
Any ideas?

If I'm not mistaken, land line telephone system has more than one standard.
Similar like TV signal standards e.g. NTSC-only or PAL-only on old TVs,
except that most TV nowadays support both standards. Or 110V vs 220V power
source standard in countries. Phones/faxes/modems only support one standard,
AFAIK. If this is the case, perhaps your modems aren't built for the phone
system used in your country.

This is all USA stuff made for POTS phone lines.

Maybe OT modem question.
 

wrote:
On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 00:15:39 +0700, JJ wrote:

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 01:39:06 -0400, wrote:
I have a dual core XP machine and my dial up connection stopped
working. I have tried 3 different Win Modems. The modems install OK
and the diagnostics say it is connecting OK but when I try dialing
out, I get the message that there is no dial tone. That phone wire
works in a phone (same wire that plugs into the modem) I can also plug
a phone into the other port on the modem and dial out through it. I
tried swapping ports to be sure it wasn't just labeled wrong.
There is no activity on the line when I listen from another phone.
Any ideas?
If I'm not mistaken, land line telephone system has more than one standard.
Similar like TV signal standards e.g. NTSC-only or PAL-only on old TVs,
except that most TV nowadays support both standards. Or 110V vs 220V power
source standard in countries. Phones/faxes/modems only support one standard,
AFAIK. If this is the case, perhaps your modems aren't built for the phone
system used in your country.

This is all USA stuff made for POTS phone lines.

I don't recollect any Hayes AT command set items that
control the electrical standard. I would expect when you
buy a product, it's designed for the country you are in.
(A US purchase for US POTS standards.)

I'm trying to remember now, how I debugged my dialup modem.
I recollect I was able to snag all the AT commands that
were sent to it.

Looking through some old messages, I was using "portmon".

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sys...nloads/portmon

But since you're not getting dial tone, I don't think
the dialing string makes any difference to that.

Paul

Maybe OT modem question.
 

On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 04:15:53 -0400, Paul
wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 00:15:39 +0700, JJ wrote:

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 01:39:06 -0400, wrote:
I have a dual core XP machine and my dial up connection stopped
working. I have tried 3 different Win Modems. The modems install OK
and the diagnostics say it is connecting OK but when I try dialing
out, I get the message that there is no dial tone. That phone wire
works in a phone (same wire that plugs into the modem) I can also plug
a phone into the other port on the modem and dial out through it. I
tried swapping ports to be sure it wasn't just labeled wrong.
There is no activity on the line when I listen from another phone.
Any ideas?
If I'm not mistaken, land line telephone system has more than one standard.
Similar like TV signal standards e.g. NTSC-only or PAL-only on old TVs,
except that most TV nowadays support both standards. Or 110V vs 220V power
source standard in countries. Phones/faxes/modems only support one standard,
AFAIK. If this is the case, perhaps your modems aren't built for the phone
system used in your country.

This is all USA stuff made for POTS phone lines.

I don't recollect any Hayes AT command set items that
control the electrical standard. I would expect when you
buy a product, it's designed for the country you are in.
(A US purchase for US POTS standards.)

I'm trying to remember now, how I debugged my dialup modem.
I recollect I was able to snag all the AT commands that
were sent to it.

Looking through some old messages, I was using "portmon".

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sys...nloads/portmon

But since you're not getting dial tone, I don't think
the dialing string makes any difference to that.

Paul

I have not played with it any more but my next plan is to run a
different wire to another phone outlet.
I have used the XP connection wizard and the AOL dial up tool. Usually
AOL seemed to be the most inclusive because they designed the
interface for just about any modem you threw at it back when dial up
was the way you connected. My problem right now is this machine is in
a piece of furniture so things are hard to get to. I am going to
assume there is a problem on the phone line side that does not show up
with a butt set. I have a 50' silver cord I am going to try next. I
can get to the Dmark with from here with that.

Maybe OT modem question.
 

wrote:
On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 04:15:53 -0400, Paul
wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 00:15:39 +0700, JJ wrote:

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 01:39:06 -0400, wrote:
I have a dual core XP machine and my dial up connection stopped
working. I have tried 3 different Win Modems. The modems install OK
and the diagnostics say it is connecting OK but when I try dialing
out, I get the message that there is no dial tone. That phone wire
works in a phone (same wire that plugs into the modem) I can also plug
a phone into the other port on the modem and dial out through it. I
tried swapping ports to be sure it wasn't just labeled wrong.
There is no activity on the line when I listen from another phone.
Any ideas?
If I'm not mistaken, land line telephone system has more than one standard.
Similar like TV signal standards e.g. NTSC-only or PAL-only on old TVs,
except that most TV nowadays support both standards. Or 110V vs 220V power
source standard in countries. Phones/faxes/modems only support one standard,
AFAIK. If this is the case, perhaps your modems aren't built for the phone
system used in your country.

This is all USA stuff made for POTS phone lines.

I don't recollect any Hayes AT command set items that
control the electrical standard. I would expect when you
buy a product, it's designed for the country you are in.
(A US purchase for US POTS standards.)

I'm trying to remember now, how I debugged my dialup modem.
I recollect I was able to snag all the AT commands that
were sent to it.

Looking through some old messages, I was using "portmon".

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sys...nloads/portmon

But since you're not getting dial tone, I don't think
the dialing string makes any difference to that.

Paul

I have not played with it any more but my next plan is to run a
different wire to another phone outlet.
I have used the XP connection wizard and the AOL dial up tool. Usually
AOL seemed to be the most inclusive because they designed the
interface for just about any modem you threw at it back when dial up
was the way you connected. My problem right now is this machine is in
a piece of furniture so things are hard to get to. I am going to
assume there is a problem on the phone line side that does not show up
with a butt set. I have a 50' silver cord I am going to try next. I
can get to the Dmark with from here with that.

Could any thing else on that machine be using the phone modem?
When you can get to the machine try a different slot.

Maybe OT modem question.
 

Maybe OT modem question.
 

On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 13:57:46 -0500, Paul in Houston TX
wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 04:15:53 -0400, Paul
wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 00:15:39 +0700, JJ wrote:

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 01:39:06 -0400, wrote:
I have a dual core XP machine and my dial up connection stopped
working. I have tried 3 different Win Modems. The modems install OK
and the diagnostics say it is connecting OK but when I try dialing
out, I get the message that there is no dial tone. That phone wire
works in a phone (same wire that plugs into the modem) I can also plug
a phone into the other port on the modem and dial out through it. I
tried swapping ports to be sure it wasn't just labeled wrong.
There is no activity on the line when I listen from another phone.
Any ideas?
If I'm not mistaken, land line telephone system has more than one standard.
Similar like TV signal standards e.g. NTSC-only or PAL-only on old TVs,
except that most TV nowadays support both standards. Or 110V vs 220V power
source standard in countries. Phones/faxes/modems only support one standard,
AFAIK. If this is the case, perhaps your modems aren't built for the phone
system used in your country.

This is all USA stuff made for POTS phone lines.

I don't recollect any Hayes AT command set items that
control the electrical standard. I would expect when you
buy a product, it's designed for the country you are in.
(A US purchase for US POTS standards.)

I'm trying to remember now, how I debugged my dialup modem.
I recollect I was able to snag all the AT commands that
were sent to it.

Looking through some old messages, I was using "portmon".

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sys...nloads/portmon

But since you're not getting dial tone, I don't think
the dialing string makes any difference to that.

Paul

I have not played with it any more but my next plan is to run a
different wire to another phone outlet.
I have used the XP connection wizard and the AOL dial up tool. Usually
AOL seemed to be the most inclusive because they designed the
interface for just about any modem you threw at it back when dial up
was the way you connected. My problem right now is this machine is in
a piece of furniture so things are hard to get to. I am going to
assume there is a problem on the phone line side that does not show up
with a butt set. I have a 50' silver cord I am going to try next. I
can get to the Dmark with from here with that.

Could any thing else on that machine be using the phone modem?
When you can get to the machine try a different slot.


This only has one available slot and a modem came out of it. I did try
putting it on another com port. XP says I am using 6 of them and I
really can only identify one. (the built in serial port) I do not have
the cable to use it tho. I have some DB9 to header cables but the pin
outs are different. I am curious if a stand alone modem will work but
it means making up a cable.
I am still not sure why it thinks 6 are in use. A am also not sure how
to release them

Maybe OT modem question.
 

On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 12:40:20 -0700, Mike Easter
wrote:

wrote:
I have a dual core XP machine and my dial up connection stopped
working. I have tried 3 different Win Modems.

What hardware are these winmodems? Are they all the same kind of slot
such as PCI or are any USB?

They are all PCI of 3 different brands.

Maybe OT modem question.
 

Maybe OT modem question.
 

On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 14:20:40 -0700, Mike Easter
wrote:

wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:
wrote:
I have a dual core XP machine and my dial up connection stopped
working. I have tried 3 different Win Modems.

What hardware are these winmodems? Are they all the same kind of slot
such as PCI or are any USB?

They are all PCI of 3 different brands.

I'm reading about people 'twiddling' the XP/ CP/ setting for wait for
dial tone before dialing to off (and/or back on); I'm also reading that
some people benefit from changing out the phone cord connection (bad
connector).

The main reason I do not suspect the phone cable is I can plug a phone
into the phone side of the modem and dial out.
I am starting to wonder whether I am missing a voltage from the PS. I
seem to remember back in the olden days that the -12v was only used
for the serial port and maybe a modem uses it too.
I am running the Intel monitor for the system board and it is not
flagging any errors.

Maybe OT modem question.