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-   -   Email for XP? (http://www.pcbanter.net/showthread.php?t=1108749)

KenK August 8th 19 06:45 PM

Email for XP?
 

I'm getting very tired of Gmail. It is VERY slow. I use Thunderbird as a
backup email. It works very well. Another like it to replace Gmail?
Suggestions?

TIA

--
I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook.







VanguardLH[_2_] August 8th 19 07:30 PM

Email for XP?
 
KenK wrote:

I'm getting very tired of Gmail. It is VERY slow. I use Thunderbird as
a backup email. It works very well. Another like it to replace Gmail?
Suggestions?


Gmail is a service. Are you claiming Google's mail servers are slow? I
use Gmail and don't see they are any slower than other e-mail providers.
In fact, once a test e-mail is sent from somewhere else, it takes less
time for it to show up in my Inbox at Gmail than at Hotmail.

If "Gmail" means you are using their webmail client then you are using
some web browser that you have not identified. Try loading the web
browser in its safe or create a new profile in it to get rid of every
extension you've installed and/or every tweak you've made.

If you are using a web browser, well, all the webmail clients use
Javascript, so if your web browser is slow to interpret the script then
the webmail client will also be slow. As mentioned above, see what
happens when you cleanup your web browser. If you are using an archaic
version of a web browser, those improved over time with faster
Javascript engines, so you are stuck with an old engine in an old web
browser. Are you using the latest version of whatever web browser you
are using on Windows XP? Even those are old but should still run
Javascript well enough to make the webmail client responsive.

If using a web browser, did you install an adblocker into it? The above
suggestion of running in safe mode or with a new profile will eliminate
that adblocker. Those extensions work by breaking web pages. They
block access to resources the web page expects to have access. The
script might keep waiting for a resource that the adblocker is blocking.
Many scripts, due to lazy programmers, never check if the resources are
available before using them, so the script will misbehave by thinking it
can call a function or object that isn't available. You could disable
the adblocker or check what it is blocking to see if you need to allow
more content to the web page, or test using the above safe mode or new
profile suggestions.

If the Gmail webmail client (via web browser) is slow for you, then
Hotmail/Live/Outlook.com web client will be slow, too, if not slower.
If your platform (OS + web browser) is slow, you'll need to find an
e-mail provider with a very basic although still Javascripted webmail
client. That's for you to test. There are lots of free e-mail
providers (although many are just lureware with crippled webmail clients
or features to bait you into buying their premium service). Since this
isn't an OS issue, you might want to ask in an e-mail newsgroup as to
which e-mail providers have very basic webmail clients (not a lot of
Javascripting which also means not a lot of features). Have you tried
the webmail client from your own ISP?

If "Gmail" means some local e-mail client, can't help with that since
you didn't identify it. You mention Thunderbird as a local e-mail
client. Gmail is a service, so "Gmail" doesn't say how you are
accessing it when it is slow.

If you are looking for suggestions for replacement local e-mail clients
(to Thunderbird), there are lots of those. I believe Seamonkey has
e-mail support. eM Client is pretty good. Essential PIM is a bit like
MS Outlook. However, if you are looking for an e-mail+newsgroups combo
client, Thunderbird is about it. 40Tude Dialog (what I use), Forte
Agent, and other newsreaders can do e-mail but they're pretty crappy as
local e-mail clients.

MikeS[_3_] August 8th 19 07:30 PM

Email for XP?
 

"KenK" wrote in message
...

I'm getting very tired of Gmail. It is VERY slow. I use Thunderbird as a
backup email. It works very well. Another like it to replace Gmail?
Suggestions?

TIA

--
I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook.

Gmail is an email service, Thunderbird is an email client which can be used
with any email service. They are totally different.



Ken Springer[_2_] August 8th 19 07:34 PM

Email for XP?
 
On 8/8/19 11:45 AM, KenK wrote:
I'm getting very tired of Gmail. It is VERY slow. I use Thunderbird as a
backup email. It works very well. Another like it to replace Gmail?
Suggestions?

TIA


I'm presuming you are accessing Gmail via your browser. If so, add your
Gmail account to Thunderbird, and use TB to check your Gmail

I'm set up that way, using Gmail as an IMAP account.

--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.5
Firefox 67.0.4
Thunderbird 60.7
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

Paul[_32_] August 8th 19 07:49 PM

Email for XP?
 
KenK wrote:
I'm getting very tired of Gmail. It is VERY slow. I use Thunderbird as a
backup email. It works very well. Another like it to replace Gmail?
Suggestions?

TIA


The GMAIL mail store can be accessed several ways.

webmail interface
POP3 (messages stored on your end)
IMAP (messages stored on GMAIL end)

For "insecure clients" such as Thunderbird, you can
try logging into your webmail account and enable
"insecure clients" in the Settings.

An insecure client might not use OAUTH2 for login,
and just use a regular username and password.
The "connections" from an application like Thunderbird,
might use SSL or TLS, so the passage of the
username and password is not in plaintext.
(It's only considered insecure, because it
is not OAUTH2.)

Examples here, of addresses and port numbers.

https://www.recoverytools.com/blog/c...h-thunderbird/

To me, the perceived advantage of POP3, is the
messages are on your computer, and the scaling
of performance is a function of your computer.

When Google does GMAIL, more than one server is
involved. There might be a front end server using
AJAX to craft a view on your machine. A back end server
holds the mail store. When more than one machine
is involved, things feel slow.

It was the same with Asus "VIP forum" (now closed).
It used two computers. It was as slow as molasses,
because the front end computer queried messages
one at a time, against the back end machine. It's
possible that's why the Google setup is a bit slow.

My GMAIL accounts (via web interface), are slow too.
But that's where my account statements go for bills,
so I don't particularly care about performance for
those email accounts.

Paul

J. P. Gilliver (John)[_7_] August 8th 19 11:44 PM

Email for XP?
 
In message , VanguardLH
writes:
[]
If you are looking for suggestions for replacement local e-mail clients
(to Thunderbird), there are lots of those. I believe Seamonkey has
e-mail support. eM Client is pretty good. Essential PIM is a bit like
MS Outlook. However, if you are looking for an e-mail+newsgroups combo
client, Thunderbird is about it. 40Tude Dialog (what I use), Forte
Agent, and other newsreaders can do e-mail but they're pretty crappy as
local e-mail clients.


There's always the original Outlook Express, which does news and email;
think that's still there as part of XP (I think it's called msimn.exe -
something like that anyway), and it's much maligned as a news/email
client. (Whether it can be used with gmail - even if you tell gmail to
allow less "secure" clients - I don't know.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I hate people who quote Shakespeare at you but are proud that they can't add
up. Stupid People. - Carol Vorderman (Radio Times, 1-7 March 2003)

Paul[_32_] August 9th 19 12:00 AM

Email for XP?
 
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , VanguardLH writes:
[]
If you are looking for suggestions for replacement local e-mail clients
(to Thunderbird), there are lots of those. I believe Seamonkey has
e-mail support. eM Client is pretty good. Essential PIM is a bit like
MS Outlook. However, if you are looking for an e-mail+newsgroups combo
client, Thunderbird is about it. 40Tude Dialog (what I use), Forte
Agent, and other newsreaders can do e-mail but they're pretty crappy as
local e-mail clients.


There's always the original Outlook Express, which does news and email;
think that's still there as part of XP (I think it's called msimn.exe -
something like that anyway), and it's much maligned as a news/email
client. (Whether it can be used with gmail - even if you tell gmail to
allow less "secure" clients - I don't know.)


The SSL/TLS noose is closing around the neck of
older tools.

My *government* weather site warns me today it
will be switching to TLS 1.2 and gives the URL
to SSLLABS to test my existing browser for compliance.

Because of course, the weather is a big secret.

I feel we've seen the last version of Seamonkey
and the last version of Thunderbird. It won't
be too long, before the compute environment
will be "quite monochromatic".

Paul

J. P. Gilliver (John)[_7_] August 9th 19 12:38 AM

Email for XP?
 
In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

[]
There's always the original Outlook Express, which does news and
email; think that's still there as part of XP (I think it's called
msimn.exe - something like that anyway), and it's much maligned as a
news/email client. (Whether it can be used with gmail - even if you
tell gmail to allow less "secure" clients - I don't know.)


The SSL/TLS noose is closing around the neck of
older tools.


I fear so.

My *government* weather site warns me today it
will be switching to TLS 1.2 and gives the URL
to SSLLABS to test my existing browser for compliance.

Because of course, the weather is a big secret.


Indeed.

I feel we've seen the last version of Seamonkey
and the last version of Thunderbird. It won't
be too long, before the compute environment
will be "quite monochromatic".

Paul


Not only is that depressing because of the reduction of choice, I can't
help thinking it's dangerous on a more basic level - single point of
entry is single point of failure, either through malware or innocuous
bug.

I think the SSL/TLS thing can be got round for older clients that can't
do it, by using a third party in-between utility; however, the only one
I know of - stunnel - is already beyond XP, though I believe a version
that works under XP is still available. (Fortunately my providers - both
ISP and hosting [I choose to have my hoster forward to my ISP, but I
could collect from them direct] - don't demand SSL/TLS, but presumably
that may change.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Everything will be all right in the end. And if everything isn't all right,
then it isn't the end. - The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel (2011)

VanguardLH[_2_] August 9th 19 06:48 AM

Email for XP?
 
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

VanguardLH WROTE:

If you are looking for suggestions for replacement local e-mail
clients (to Thunderbird), there are lots of those. I believe
Seamonkey has e-mail support. eM Client is pretty good. Essential
PIM is a bit like MS Outlook. However, if you are looking for an
e-mail+newsgroups combo client, Thunderbird is about it. 40Tude
Dialog (what I use), Forte Agent, and other newsreaders can do
e-mail but they're pretty crappy as local e-mail clients.


There's always the original Outlook Express, which does news and
email; think that's still there as part of XP (I think it's called
msimn.exe - something like that anyway), and it's much maligned as a
news/email client. (Whether it can be used with gmail - even if you
tell gmail to allow less "secure" clients - I don't know.)


Yep, I used OE back on XP. I also added the OE-QuoteFix (OEQF)
extension. At one time, Microsoft supported extensions to OE and that
was when OEQF showed up. Then Microsoft removed documentation and
claimed to no longer support extensions, but OE still worked as before.

I used OE+OEQF for quite awhile. When I needed more accurate filters in
newsgroups, especially to add regex, was when I had to dump OE. I also
liked local clients that supported [ActiveSync for] Exchange since that
let me synchronize not just e-mail but also contacts and calendar.

Besides using OEQF, SP-3 for Windows XP introduced a couple of registry
settings for OE. One modified whether OE defaulted to top or bottom
posting. While bottom posting is the de facto standard in Usenet, the
vast majority of users expect top posting for e-mail. Alas, the
registry hack affect top or bottom posting for both e-mail and
newsgroups in OE. The other registry setting placed the signature block
at the end of the new content (your reply) or at the end of the entire
message (where it always should be). I don't remember what were the
registry edits. I found them by reading the release notes for SP-3 for
Windows XP. Yeah, not many users read those.

Because Ken is using Xnews, I suspect he really doesn't want to use OE
as his newsreader. It's been far too long since I trialed Xnews, so I
don't remember if it did e-mail, but suspect it isn't a good e-mail
client.

VanguardLH[_2_] August 9th 19 06:52 AM

Email for XP?
 
Paul wrote:

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

There's always the original Outlook Express, which does news and email;
think that's still there as part of XP (I think it's called msimn.exe -
something like that anyway), and it's much maligned as a news/email
client. (Whether it can be used with gmail - even if you tell gmail to
allow less "secure" clients - I don't know.)


The SSL/TLS noose is closing around the neck of older tools.


Ah, I forgot about that. As I recall, and because OE doesn't support
TLS although many sites require it, is to use sTunnel which does support
TLS. You configure OE to connect to sTunnel and configure sTunnel to
connect to the TLS-mandating server. You employ a proxy between client
and server that can handle the TLS encryption. sTunnel uses OpenSSL,
and both are free and open source software (FOSS).

J. P. Gilliver (John)[_7_] August 9th 19 07:36 AM

Email for XP?
 
In message , VanguardLH
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

VanguardLH WROTE:

If you are looking for suggestions for replacement local e-mail
clients (to Thunderbird), there are lots of those. I believe
Seamonkey has e-mail support. eM Client is pretty good. Essential
PIM is a bit like MS Outlook. However, if you are looking for an
e-mail+newsgroups combo client, Thunderbird is about it. 40Tude
Dialog (what I use), Forte Agent, and other newsreaders can do
e-mail but they're pretty crappy as local e-mail clients.


There's always the original Outlook Express, which does news and
email; think that's still there as part of XP (I think it's called
msimn.exe - something like that anyway), and it's much maligned as a
news/email client. (Whether it can be used with gmail - even if you
tell gmail to allow less "secure" clients - I don't know.)


Yep, I used OE back on XP. I also added the OE-QuoteFix (OEQF)
extension. At one time, Microsoft supported extensions to OE and that
was when OEQF showed up. Then Microsoft removed documentation and
claimed to no longer support extensions, but OE still worked as before.


I'd forgotten about OEQF; yes, I would strongly recommend that with OE.
I only actually used OE (and OEQF) at work for news, when we had news -
but I used Outlook-Quotefix with Outlook, our mandated email client at
work. That carried on working up to ... well, it stopped working with
the Outlook that came as part of 2003 or 2007, I can't remember which.
(I know the infamous "ribbons" came in with 2007, but not when OQ
stopped working.)
[]
Besides using OEQF, SP-3 for Windows XP introduced a couple of registry
settings for OE. One modified whether OE defaulted to top or bottom
posting. While bottom posting is the de facto standard in Usenet, the
vast majority of users expect top posting for e-mail. Alas, the


I think Microsoft/Outlook/Outlook Express are actually largely
_responsible_ for the almost universality of top posting. It placed the
cursor at the top of the quoted text - but this was not intended to
encourage top-posting, but snipping and interposting. But this was also
about the time when people started to just jump in and use email, rather
than be taught how to.

registry hack affect top or bottom posting for both e-mail and
newsgroups in OE. The other registry setting placed the signature block
at the end of the new content (your reply) or at the end of the entire
message (where it always should be). I don't remember what were the


Yes, that certainly didn't help. (IIRR OEQF fixed that.) Mine dew,
having it there at least meant that any _proper_ client would trim off
the 2-old message in any response - if the OE user had a proper .sig
separator, of course, which most didn't.

registry edits. I found them by reading the release notes for SP-3 for
Windows XP. Yeah, not many users read those.


Indeed! (I got my preinstalled XP already with SP3, so don't think I
ever encountered those notes.)

Because Ken is using Xnews, I suspect he really doesn't want to use OE
as his newsreader. It's been far too long since I trialed Xnews, so I
don't remember if it did e-mail, but suspect it isn't a good e-mail
client.


(I don't think I've ever used it, for either. For home use, I've been
using Turnpike [for both], more or less since I came into Windows [in
DOS, I used the modified version of the KA9Q suite that Demon provided;
I forget what email and news clients that included. Might have been
pine. For work, Outlook for email and OE for news when they
standardised; I have vague memories of using Netscape [!] before they
did. For other people I set up, I've used Thunderbird for some time - I
accept it may not be the best, but it's reasonably well supported, to
the extent that for example most email and news providers have a page
telling you how to set it up with them.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

One of my tricks as an armchair futurist is to "predict" things that are
already happening and watch people tell me it will never happen.
Scott Adams, 2015-3-9

R.Wieser August 9th 19 07:18 PM

Email for XP?
 
VanguardLH,

sTunnel uses OpenSSL, and both are free and open source
software (FOSS).


The last time I tried to use OpenSSL (on w98se) the function PEM_read_x509
/always/ crashed. When I made a remark about it I got the feeling that
that was "a know issue with the Windows port", and "won't fix". :-(

That was four years back. Any idea if it currently works under XPsp3 ?

The SSL/TLS noose is closing around the neck of older tools.


If I can't find a way to upgrade FireFox 52 with a more current secure
socket library I might switch to a Raspberry Pi. Added benefit - a nice
seperation of the 'puter where all kinds of crackers^wlegitimate website
owners demand to run their scripts and the 'puter I've got all my own stuff
on. :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser



Mike Easter August 9th 19 10:01 PM

Email for XP?
 
Paul wrote:
For "insecure clients" such as Thunderbird, you can
try logging into your webmail account and enable
"insecure clients" in the Settings.

An insecure client might not use OAUTH2 for login,
and just use a regular username and password.


Tb has been gmail OAUTH2 compliant since v.38.

--
Mike Easter

J. P. Gilliver (John)[_7_] August 10th 19 03:57 AM

Email for XP?
 
In message , R.Wieser
writes:
VanguardLH,

sTunnel uses OpenSSL, and both are free and open source
software (FOSS).


The last time I tried to use OpenSSL (on w98se) the function PEM_read_x509
/always/ crashed. When I made a remark about it I got the feeling that
that was "a know issue with the Windows port", and "won't fix". :-(

That was four years back. Any idea if it currently works under XPsp3 ?


There are quite a few people on the Turnpike newsgroup who are using
stunnel OK with providers that need it. I _think_ on both XP and 7.

The SSL/TLS noose is closing around the neck of older tools.


If I can't find a way to upgrade FireFox 52 with a more current secure
socket library I might switch to a Raspberry Pi. Added benefit - a nice
seperation of the 'puter where all kinds of crackers^wlegitimate website
owners demand to run their scripts and the 'puter I've got all my own stuff
on. :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


Mike Easter says Thunderbird has been SSL compliant since v38, so you
don't need the extra bit if you use that.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"If just one child is saved, then we'll have created a police state for the
benefit of just one child."

R.Wieser August 10th 19 09:29 AM

Email for XP?
 
John,

Mike Easter says Thunderbird has been SSL compliant since v38, so you
don't need the extra bit if you use that.


I have not encountered problems with email and newsgroup servers yet. But
yes, there might come a time where I would need to replace that one too
(currently still using OE).

My current, more immediate problem is how I will be able to keep browsing
the web from my XPsp3 machine. FireFox v52 is the last one which will
still run on XP, and it looks to become outdated due to the progressing of
encryption standards.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser




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