Best networking books on mixed Windows environments?
 

I'm continually working on mixed Windows networks.
In all this time I've not found good descriptions of how all the pieces fit
together, work together.

For example:

What happens if TCP/IP, NetBEUI and IPX are all installed on all computers?
Are there protocol priorities for doing one task or another? etc. Some say
to use all 3, others insist that TCP/IP is enough and others insist there is
a proper mix for security purposes.

Why does installing NetBEUI on one 98SE computer cause XP computers that
don't have NetBEUI to disappear from view - even though they could see each
other before installing NetBEUI on the 98SE or ME machine?

How do Microsoft Family Logon and Client for Microsoft Networks differ? (I
have seen both of them separately recommended to be used in order for a
network to be reliable).

What can be done to force or improve the time it takes to display the actual
Workgroup computers after a change has been made?

Oh, I've found pieces on the web. But, how about good books on Windows
networking? I didn't see anything on amazon.com that sounded like what I'm
looking for. Either the books were high-level networking books that don't
talk about these Windows specifics and interactions (I already have books
like that) or, they were about a single Windows OS and were too low-level to
get into this kind of detail (and I already have books like that also).

Thanks,

Fred

Best networking books on mixed Windows environments?
 

In article , Fred Marshall
writes

But, how about good books on Windows
networking?

A book wouldn't be any good. The problems mutate daily, it seems, and
Win XP SP 2 seems like a mass extinction. (;-)

Your resources are limited to mailgroups and the Internet. Nothing else
can react fast enough.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Best networking books on mixed Windows environments?
 

John,

Thanks for the reply.
Yabbut how about the stuff that's long-lived, that's been around for a long
time, etc.?
I guess I should trust my own research, eh? I didn't find anything - thus
my question here.

For that matter then, how about the example questions I asked? They were
real enough.

Fred

"John Woodgate" wrote in message
...
In article , Fred Marshall
writes

But, how about good books on Windows
networking?

A book wouldn't be any good. The problems mutate daily, it seems, and
Win XP SP 2 seems like a mass extinction. (;-)

Your resources are limited to mailgroups and the Internet. Nothing else
can react fast enough.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Best networking books on mixed Windows environments?
 

In article , "Fred Marshall"
wrote:
I'm continually working on mixed Windows networks.
In all this time I've not found good descriptions of how all the pieces fit
together, work together.

Hi, Fred. I know what you mean: there's a lot of networking
information available, but much of it is fragmented, and much of it is
just plain wrong. I've seen more misinformation about networking than
about any other area of Windows -- so much that I've written a web
page about it:

Windows Networking Myths
http://www.bcmaven.com/networking/myths.htm

For example:

What happens if TCP/IP, NetBEUI and IPX are all installed on all computers?
Are there protocol priorities for doing one task or another? etc. Some say
to use all 3, others insist that TCP/IP is enough and others insist there is
a proper mix for security purposes.

All three protocols support file sharing. Some networked games
require TCP/IP or IPX. Only TCP/IP supports Internet access. Nothing
in Windows networking has ever required NetBEUI.

NetBEUI was the default protocol in Windows 95, but TCP/IP has been
the default protocol since Windows 98. Even in Windows 95, you can
un-install NetBEUI and use a different protocol. Microsoft wouldn't
have dropped support for NetBEUI in Windows XP if anything required
it.

It's possible, but rarely useful, to use TCP/IP for Internet and one
of the others for file sharing.

Using more than one protocol for file sharing can cause browsing
problems and make the network unreliable, especially when XP is
involved. Unless there's a specific need for them, remove NetBEUI and
IPX from all computers and use only TCP/IP. If the network needs more
than one protocol (e.g. TCP/IP for Internet access and IPX/SPX for
networked games), choose one protocol for file sharing and un-bind
sharing from the other(s). I've written a web page with details:

Windows XP Network Protocols
http://www.practicallynetworked.com/..._protocols.htm

I've seen networking web sites and even NIC installation instructions
from network equipment manufacturers say to use all three, but my
experience shows it to be a bad idea. I've never seen multiple
protocols for file sharing recommended in any document from Microsoft.

Why does installing NetBEUI on one 98SE computer cause XP computers that
don't have NetBEUI to disappear from view - even though they could see each
other before installing NetBEUI on the 98SE or ME machine?

Using more than one protocol, even on a single computer, can cause
browsing problems and make the network unreliable, especially when XP
is involved. It causes redundant network broadcasts and disrupts the
browse list that the network's master browser maintains.

How do Microsoft Family Logon and Client for Microsoft Networks differ? (I
have seen both of them separately recommended to be used in order for a
network to be reliable).

Microsoft Family Logon has nothing to do with file sharing and is
never necessary. Installing it does two things:

1. Enables Win 9x computers to save DUN passwords if Client for
Microsoft Networks isn't installed.

2. If you set the primary network logon to Microsoft Family Logon, it
presents a menu of known user names at startup time and asks you to
select one.

You must install Client for Microsoft Networks to allow a computer to
see other computers on the network. However, it doesn't have to be
the primary network logon -- Windows Logon, Client for Microsoft
Networks, Microsoft Family Logon are all OK as the primary network
logon.

What can be done to force or improve the time it takes to display the actual
Workgroup computers after a change has been made?

Because of the way that Microsoft implemented network browsing, it
often takes up to 15 minutes for a computer to appear on the network
after it starts up. I don't know of any way to speed that up. To
access a computer directly, before it appears in Network Neighborhood
or My Network Places, type its name in the Start | Run box in this
format:

\\computer

Oh, I've found pieces on the web. But, how about good books on Windows
networking? I didn't see anything on amazon.com that sounded like what I'm
looking for. Either the books were high-level networking books that don't
talk about these Windows specifics and interactions (I already have books
like that) or, they were about a single Windows OS and were too low-level to
get into this kind of detail (and I already have books like that also).

I'm sorry, but I don't know of any good books.

Thanks,

Fred
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

Best networking books on mixed Windows environments?
 

Steve,

Thanks for a great reply!

Fred

"Steve Winograd [MVP]" wrote in message
...
In article , "Fred Marshall"
wrote:
I'm continually working on mixed Windows networks.
In all this time I've not found good descriptions of how all the pieces
fit
together, work together.

Hi, Fred. I know what you mean: there's a lot of networking
information available, but much of it is fragmented, and much of it is
just plain wrong. I've seen more misinformation about networking than
about any other area of Windows -- so much that I've written a web
page about it:

Windows Networking Myths
http://www.bcmaven.com/networking/myths.htm

For example:

What happens if TCP/IP, NetBEUI and IPX are all installed on all
computers?
Are there protocol priorities for doing one task or another? etc. Some
say
to use all 3, others insist that TCP/IP is enough and others insist there
is
a proper mix for security purposes.

All three protocols support file sharing. Some networked games
require TCP/IP or IPX. Only TCP/IP supports Internet access. Nothing
in Windows networking has ever required NetBEUI.

NetBEUI was the default protocol in Windows 95, but TCP/IP has been
the default protocol since Windows 98. Even in Windows 95, you can
un-install NetBEUI and use a different protocol. Microsoft wouldn't
have dropped support for NetBEUI in Windows XP if anything required
it.

It's possible, but rarely useful, to use TCP/IP for Internet and one
of the others for file sharing.

Using more than one protocol for file sharing can cause browsing
problems and make the network unreliable, especially when XP is
involved. Unless there's a specific need for them, remove NetBEUI and
IPX from all computers and use only TCP/IP. If the network needs more
than one protocol (e.g. TCP/IP for Internet access and IPX/SPX for
networked games), choose one protocol for file sharing and un-bind
sharing from the other(s). I've written a web page with details:

Windows XP Network Protocols
http://www.practicallynetworked.com/..._protocols.htm

I've seen networking web sites and even NIC installation instructions
from network equipment manufacturers say to use all three, but my
experience shows it to be a bad idea. I've never seen multiple
protocols for file sharing recommended in any document from Microsoft.

Why does installing NetBEUI on one 98SE computer cause XP computers that
don't have NetBEUI to disappear from view - even though they could see
each
other before installing NetBEUI on the 98SE or ME machine?

Using more than one protocol, even on a single computer, can cause
browsing problems and make the network unreliable, especially when XP
is involved. It causes redundant network broadcasts and disrupts the
browse list that the network's master browser maintains.

How do Microsoft Family Logon and Client for Microsoft Networks differ?
(I
have seen both of them separately recommended to be used in order for a
network to be reliable).

Microsoft Family Logon has nothing to do with file sharing and is
never necessary. Installing it does two things:

1. Enables Win 9x computers to save DUN passwords if Client for
Microsoft Networks isn't installed.

2. If you set the primary network logon to Microsoft Family Logon, it
presents a menu of known user names at startup time and asks you to
select one.

You must install Client for Microsoft Networks to allow a computer to
see other computers on the network. However, it doesn't have to be
the primary network logon -- Windows Logon, Client for Microsoft
Networks, Microsoft Family Logon are all OK as the primary network
logon.

What can be done to force or improve the time it takes to display the
actual
Workgroup computers after a change has been made?

Because of the way that Microsoft implemented network browsing, it
often takes up to 15 minutes for a computer to appear on the network
after it starts up. I don't know of any way to speed that up. To
access a computer directly, before it appears in Network Neighborhood
or My Network Places, type its name in the Start | Run box in this
format:

\\computer

Oh, I've found pieces on the web. But, how about good books on Windows
networking? I didn't see anything on amazon.com that sounded like what
I'm
looking for. Either the books were high-level networking books that
don't
talk about these Windows specifics and interactions (I already have books
like that) or, they were about a single Windows OS and were too low-level
to
get into this kind of detail (and I already have books like that also).

I'm sorry, but I don't know of any good books.

Thanks,

Fred
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

Best networking books on mixed Windows environments?
 

"Steve Winograd [MVP]" wrote in message
...
In article , "Fred Marshall"
wrote:
I'm continually working on mixed Windows networks.
In all this time I've not found good descriptions of how all the pieces
fit
together, work together.

Hi, Fred. I know what you mean: there's a lot of networking
information available, but much of it is fragmented, and much of it is
just plain wrong. I've seen more misinformation about networking than
about any other area of Windows -- so much that I've written a web
page about it:

Steve,

Thanks again!

I had one case where an existing network with WFW3.1 and WinNT4sp6 and ME
were networked. All had TCP/IP and NetBEUI. Added an XP Home machine. XP
couldn't see the network until NetBEUI was added.... ?

In view of that experience, it seems like an expedient to just add NetBEUI.
Because I couldn't make it work until I did that. So, now what am I
motivated to do in the field in order to save on-site time ..... ?

Or, how might I have avoided that situation without adding NetBEUI to the XP
macine?

By your comments, I'm motivated to try using just TCP/IP .....

Fred

Best networking books on mixed Windows environments?
 

In article , "Fred Marshall"
wrote:
"Steve Winograd [MVP]" wrote in message
.. .
In article , "Fred Marshall"
wrote:
I'm continually working on mixed Windows networks.
In all this time I've not found good descriptions of how all the pieces
fit together, work together.

Hi, Fred. I know what you mean: there's a lot of networking
information available, but much of it is fragmented, and much of it is
just plain wrong. I've seen more misinformation about networking than
about any other area of Windows -- so much that I've written a web
page about it:

Windows Networking Myths
http://www.bcmaven.com/networking/myths.htm

What happens if TCP/IP, NetBEUI and IPX are all installed on all computers?
Are there protocol priorities for doing one task or another? etc. Some say
to use all 3, others insist that TCP/IP is enough and others insist there is
a proper mix for security purposes.

All three protocols support file sharing. Some networked games
require TCP/IP or IPX. Only TCP/IP supports Internet access. Nothing
in Windows networking has ever required NetBEUI.

NetBEUI was the default protocol in Windows 95, but TCP/IP has been
the default protocol since Windows 98. Even in Windows 95, you can
un-install NetBEUI and use a different protocol. Microsoft wouldn't
have dropped support for NetBEUI in Windows XP if anything required
it.

It's possible, but rarely useful, to use TCP/IP for Internet and one
of the others for file sharing.

Using more than one protocol for file sharing can cause browsing
problems and make the network unreliable, especially when XP is
involved. Unless there's a specific need for them, remove NetBEUI and
IPX from all computers and use only TCP/IP. If the network needs more
than one protocol (e.g. TCP/IP for Internet access and IPX/SPX for
networked games), choose one protocol for file sharing and un-bind
sharing from the other(s). I've written a web page with details:

Windows XP Network Protocols
http://www.practicallynetworked.com/..._protocols.htm

Steve,

Thanks again!

I had one case where an existing network with WFW3.1 and WinNT4sp6 and ME
were networked. All had TCP/IP and NetBEUI. Added an XP Home machine. XP
couldn't see the network until NetBEUI was added.... ?

In view of that experience, it seems like an expedient to just add NetBEUI.
Because I couldn't make it work until I did that. So, now what am I
motivated to do in the field in order to save on-site time ..... ?

Or, how might I have avoided that situation without adding NetBEUI to the XP
macine?

By your comments, I'm motivated to try using just TCP/IP .....

Fred

You're welcome, Fred. Early versions of WFW didn't include TCP/IP.
Some computers used a third-party product called Trumpet Winsock.
Microsoft eventually released its own TCP/IP product, which is still
available for download. I've used it successfully on WFW 3.11
(released 11/1/93), but I don't remember whether it works on WFW 3.1
(released 10/1/92):

How to Obtain TCP/IP-32 3.11b for Windows for Workgroups
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=99891

They key to Windows networking is to use the same protocol for file
sharing on all computers. It's possible that the network that you saw
had un-bound file sharing from TCP/IP and bound it only to NetBEUI.
It's also possible that there was something wrong with the TCP/IP
configuration. Certainly, it was expedient to add NetBEUI to XP to
get things working.

All versions of Windows, even as far back as WFW 3.11, can use TCP/IP
as the only protocol. If you and the client have the time available,
I recommend getting that to work on that network, especially if you'll
be adding more XP computers.
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

Best networking books on mixed Windows environments?
 

oops! I should have said WFW 3.11 and it does have TCP/IP.

"Steve Winograd [MVP]" wrote in message
...
In article , "Fred Marshall"
wrote:
"Steve Winograd [MVP]" wrote in message
.. .
In article , "Fred Marshall"
wrote:
I'm continually working on mixed Windows networks.
In all this time I've not found good descriptions of how all the
pieces
fit together, work together.

Hi, Fred. I know what you mean: there's a lot of networking
information available, but much of it is fragmented, and much of it is
just plain wrong. I've seen more misinformation about networking than
about any other area of Windows -- so much that I've written a web
page about it:

Windows Networking Myths
http://www.bcmaven.com/networking/myths.htm

What happens if TCP/IP, NetBEUI and IPX are all installed on all
computers?
Are there protocol priorities for doing one task or another? etc. Some
say
to use all 3, others insist that TCP/IP is enough and others insist
there is
a proper mix for security purposes.

All three protocols support file sharing. Some networked games
require TCP/IP or IPX. Only TCP/IP supports Internet access. Nothing
in Windows networking has ever required NetBEUI.

NetBEUI was the default protocol in Windows 95, but TCP/IP has been
the default protocol since Windows 98. Even in Windows 95, you can
un-install NetBEUI and use a different protocol. Microsoft wouldn't
have dropped support for NetBEUI in Windows XP if anything required
it.

It's possible, but rarely useful, to use TCP/IP for Internet and one
of the others for file sharing.

Using more than one protocol for file sharing can cause browsing
problems and make the network unreliable, especially when XP is
involved. Unless there's a specific need for them, remove NetBEUI and
IPX from all computers and use only TCP/IP. If the network needs more
than one protocol (e.g. TCP/IP for Internet access and IPX/SPX for
networked games), choose one protocol for file sharing and un-bind
sharing from the other(s). I've written a web page with details:

Windows XP Network Protocols
http://www.practicallynetworked.com/..._protocols.htm

Steve,

Thanks again!

I had one case where an existing network with WFW3.1 and WinNT4sp6 and ME
were networked. All had TCP/IP and NetBEUI. Added an XP Home machine.
XP
couldn't see the network until NetBEUI was added.... ?

In view of that experience, it seems like an expedient to just add
NetBEUI.
Because I couldn't make it work until I did that. So, now what am I
motivated to do in the field in order to save on-site time ..... ?

Or, how might I have avoided that situation without adding NetBEUI to the
XP
macine?

By your comments, I'm motivated to try using just TCP/IP .....

Fred

You're welcome, Fred. Early versions of WFW didn't include TCP/IP.
Some computers used a third-party product called Trumpet Winsock.
Microsoft eventually released its own TCP/IP product, which is still
available for download. I've used it successfully on WFW 3.11
(released 11/1/93), but I don't remember whether it works on WFW 3.1
(released 10/1/92):

How to Obtain TCP/IP-32 3.11b for Windows for Workgroups
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=99891

They key to Windows networking is to use the same protocol for file
sharing on all computers. It's possible that the network that you saw
had un-bound file sharing from TCP/IP and bound it only to NetBEUI.
It's also possible that there was something wrong with the TCP/IP
configuration. Certainly, it was expedient to add NetBEUI to XP to
get things working.

All versions of Windows, even as far back as WFW 3.11, can use TCP/IP
as the only protocol. If you and the client have the time available,
I recommend getting that to work on that network, especially if you'll
be adding more XP computers.
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com