My pc mother board has died - Install xp oem
 

LOL Gotcha now.
Those are sales title "certifications" used by members of the partners
program. Definitely not employee titles.

--
Larry Samuels Associate Expert
MS-MVP (2001-2005)
Unofficial FAQ for Windows Server 2003 at
http://pelos.us/SERVER.htm
Expert Zone- www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

"Rhonda Lea Kirk" wrote in message
...
Larry Samuels wrote:
Hi Rhonda,

MVPs are absolutely *NOT* Microsoft employees. In fact, there is a
clause in the agreement that if a MVP is hired by MS that they have
to give up their MVP status.

I wasn't talking about an MVP. I haven't seen *any* MVP write anything I
would consider actionable.

I was talking about CRaven, who holds him/herself out to be a "Microsoft
Certified Technology Specialist, Microsoft Licensing Sales Specialist, and
Microsoft Small Business Specialist." It may be, however, that I have
misinterpreted these titles, and that s/he does not work for Microsoft,
but has simply been endowed with special magical powers. In which case, if
I were Microsoft, I'd take them back soonest.

You can get more info on who MVPs are and what the program is about at
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/

Read it already. I've been really, really busy these last few weeks with
all the reading I've been doing (I'm currently unemployed, so I have
time), and my eyes hurt. :)

I think you guys (to include both men and women MVPs) are terrific to give
your time and that you do a wonderful job. I've learned a lot here.

I just didn't like CRaven's attitude--it was a little too haughty for my
taste, so I expressed myself in a tone to match. :)

rl
--
Rhonda Lea Kirk

Insisting on perfect safety is for people
without the balls to live in the real world.
Mary Shafer Iliff

My pc mother board has died - Install xp oem
 

Larry Samuels wrote:

LOL Gotcha now.
Those are sales title "certifications" used by members of the partners
program. Definitely not employee titles.

Thanks, Larry, for the clarification. :)

It kinda reminds of the corporate practice of the 80s when everyone gave
business cards (to low level employees) in lieu of a pay raise.

Sheesh!

rl
--
Rhonda Lea Kirk

Calvin: "Do you think our morality is defined by our actions
or by what's in our hearts?"
Hobbes: "I think our actions *show* what is in our hearts."
Calvin: "I RESENT THAT!"

My pc mother board has died - Install xp oem
 

Rhonda Lea Kirk wrote:

If I were the original poster, I would just write to (not call)
Microsoft, and ask for a determination, because this thread is totally
out of control.

Amen to that. But sometimes late in the evening or the
wee early hours of the morning, one of the best shows in
town is the Carey vs. Kurt, Alias, and gang show.

My pc mother board has died - Install xp oem
 

"KDagnell" wrote in message
...
Hi there,

My motherboard has died and I need to transfer reinstall Windows off my
oem
disk - a friend tells me that this would breach lisencing and I need a new
version!

Is this true and is there anything else that I should know regarding this?

Don't see any persons here qualified to provide legal advice, just their
opinions.

You seem to be implying that you're replacing the motherboard. If this is
incorrect, ignore further. My experience shows with XP generic OEM, when
swapping motherboards, MS doesn't give hoot. Even when you call them for a
product ID explaining the situation truthfully.

A recovery CD provides incorrect drivers for different motherboard, and its
internals. As does a specific XP OEM install CD. If the same or highly
similar motherboard, no sweat.

The legality question, am not qualified to answer that without any
background in that area.
--
Jonny

My pc mother board has died - Install xp oem
 

Rhonda Lea Kirk wrote:

If I were the original poster, I would just write to (not call)
Microsoft, and ask for a determination, because this thread is totally
out of control.

Then should IBM have written SCO for their interpretation of the UNIX
license? I think not.

It is quite simple. Read the EULA and the SBL and make a determination
for yourself.

The EULA never says a freakin' word about the motherboard, and the SBL
only mentions the motherboard once. "A "fully assembled computer
system" means a computer system consisting of at least a central
processing unit, a motherboard, a hard drive, a power supply, and a
case." The motherboard is only one of 5 components that make up a
"fully assembled computer system." The SBL does NOT specify that one of
these five components is greater than the others.

So what is agreed to is very simple. Carey's nonsense is not included
in any license that has been agreed to.

It's so simple that only idiots and people with their heads up their own
butt cannot see it.

http://carey.microscum.com

--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."

My pc mother board has died - Install xp oem
 

Jonny wrote:

"KDagnell" wrote in message
...
Hi there,

My motherboard has died and I need to transfer reinstall Windows off
my oem
disk - a friend tells me that this would breach lisencing and I need
a new version!

Is this true and is there anything else that I should know regarding
this?

Don't see any persons here qualified to provide legal advice, just
their opinions.

You seem to be implying that you're replacing the motherboard. If
this is incorrect, ignore further. My experience shows with XP
generic OEM, when swapping motherboards, MS doesn't give hoot. Even
when you call them for a product ID explaining the situation
truthfully.
A recovery CD provides incorrect drivers for different motherboard,
and its internals. As does a specific XP OEM install CD. If the
same or highly similar motherboard, no sweat.

The legality question, am not qualified to answer that without any
background in that area.

Can you read? If so, then you should see for yourself that this
motherboard cannot be changed nonsense is not part of any license that
was agreed to. I doesn't take a law degree to see that.

This is not a legal opinion, just friggin' common sense.

--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."

My pc mother board has died - Install xp oem
 

kurttrail wrote:
Larry Samuels wrote:

Hi Rhonda,

Those of us that do have access to that site CANNOT post what is
there due to NDA restrictions. snip

The NDA restrictions haven't stopped Carey.

My understanding is if it can be googled it isn't restricted by the NDA.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...oogle+S earch

It's the second hit and you don't need a password to access it. Also note
there is no mention of the motherboard in the publicly accessible document.
I don't know of any publicly accessible documents that say the motherboard
defines the computer. In any case even if it is on a web site I don't see
how that would have anything to do with amending the end user's license. It
is conceivable that an end user may not have Internet access and even if
they do why would they search for an amended license agreement. Until
Microsoft puts this (motherboard defines the computer) in a EULA that the
end user agrees to I don't see how it can be legally enforced. In practice
they can try to enforce it though activations but it would be interesting to
see it challenged in court. I often change motherboards for customers. So
far I have never been refused activation.
--
Kerry
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

My pc mother board has died - Install xp oem
 

kurttrail wrote:
Rhonda Lea Kirk wrote:

If I were the original poster, I would just write to (not call)
Microsoft, and ask for a determination, because this thread is
totally out of control.

snip

It is quite simple. Read the EULA and the SBL and make a
determination for yourself.

I agree. But I'm not the original poster, who *didn't* read the EULA
(probably can't since her computer is down) and who is now getting a
very long thread full of "expert" answers, not all of which agree.

Look, I didn't realize that CRaven person is not an employee of
Microsoft--s/he certainly went out of his/her way to look "official"
with all the titles below his/her name--so why would any other casual
user have that knowledge? If I were the person asking that
question...well, I read what you and Alias write pretty closely, Kurt,
and for that reason, I trust your answers, but for someone who pops in
to solve a single problem...it's a problem.

Who are you (the generic you, not the "Kurt you", because you're a
skeptic if ever there was one)going to heed? The poster with the string
of titles or the poster who either has no sig or a sig with a a parody
website and an apparent axe to grind?

Apart from the philosophical and interpretative line of the thread,
there is still a real live human being with a problem, and she came here
to get it solved. She has touched off a food fight, but she still
doesn't have a definitive determination, and if that's what she really
wants, then the thing to do is go straight to the horse.

rl

My pc mother board has died - Install xp oem
 

kurttrail wrote:
Jonny wrote:

The legality question, am not qualified to answer that without any
background in that area.

Can you read? If so, then you should see for yourself that this
motherboard cannot be changed nonsense is not part of any license that
was agreed to. I doesn't take a law degree to see that.

This is not a legal opinion, just friggin' common sense.

I obviously made at least one person nervous with my comment about
practicing law without a license.

I should've known better, given the current legal climate, but CRaven
annoyed me.

People give legal advice all the time--to their friends, to their
acquaintances, to strangers on a newsgroup. It's only a problem when the
advice is a) wrong and b) presented as being accurate because the advice
giver has particular credentials that apparently guarantee its accuracy.

CRaven posted as a "licensing specialist," and the ordinary man on the
street would take that as definitive...in this case to his detriment.

But an ordinary poster who offers up an opinion and does not
misrepresent himself doesn't really have anything to worry about.

rl

My pc mother board has died - Install xp oem
 

Kerry Brown wrote:

kurttrail wrote:
Larry Samuels wrote:

Hi Rhonda,

Those of us that do have access to that site CANNOT post what is
there due to NDA restrictions. snip

The NDA restrictions haven't stopped Carey.

My understanding is if it can be googled it isn't restricted by the
NDA.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...oogle+S earch

It's the second hit and you don't need a password to access it. Also
note there is no mention of the motherboard in the publicly
accessible document. I don't know of any publicly accessible
documents that say the motherboard defines the computer.

None that I've ever seen. Expecially no license ever mentions this
BULLSH*T!

In any case
even if it is on a web site I don't see how that would have anything
to do with amending the end user's license. It is conceivable that an
end user may not have Internet access and even if they do why would
they search for an amended license agreement. Until Microsoft puts
this (motherboard defines the computer) in a EULA that the end user
agrees to I don't see how it can be legally enforced. In practice
they can try to enforce it though activations but it would be
interesting to see it challenged in court. I often change
motherboards for customers. So far I have never been refused
activation.

Carey doesn't quote or paraphrase the SBL, as the SBL mentions NOTHING
about changing the motherboard invalidates the license.

http://groups.google.com/group/micro...5ae6bed?hl=en&

In that post he directly quotes a password-protected covered by the NDA
page. And in all of the OEM/motherboard threads he paraphrases this
nonsense, and makes it seem that it is coming from an actual license
that people agreed to, which I have yet to see ANY LICENSE that says
anything like, the changing the motherboard creates a new computer
invalidating the OEM Windows License.

--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."

My pc mother board has died - Install xp oem
 

Rhonda Lea Kirk wrote:

kurttrail wrote:
Rhonda Lea Kirk wrote:

If I were the original poster, I would just write to (not call)
Microsoft, and ask for a determination, because this thread is
totally out of control.

snip

It is quite simple. Read the EULA and the SBL and make a
determination for yourself.

I agree. But I'm not the original poster, who *didn't* read the EULA
(probably can't since her computer is down) and who is now getting a
very long thread full of "expert" answers, not all of which agree.

Look, I didn't realize that CRaven person is not an employee of
Microsoft--s/he certainly went out of his/her way to look "official"
with all the titles below his/her name--so why would any other casual
user have that knowledge? If I were the person asking that
question...well, I read what you and Alias write pretty closely, Kurt,
and for that reason, I trust your answers, but for someone who pops in
to solve a single problem...it's a problem.

Who are you (the generic you, not the "Kurt you", because you're a
skeptic if ever there was one)going to heed? The poster with the
string of titles or the poster who either has no sig or a sig with a
a parody website and an apparent axe to grind?

Apart from the philosophical and interpretative line of the thread,
there is still a real live human being with a problem, and she came
here to get it solved. She has touched off a food fight, but she still
doesn't have a definitive determination, and if that's what she really
wants, then the thing to do is go straight to the horse.

rl

No one, not me, not Carey, and not Microsoft can make a definitive
determination about this unless this issue comes up before a judge and
then judge makes a definitive determination. Until then, the OP needs
to do is read the EULA and the SBL, and come to a determination that is
best for them.

If the OP thinks he/she/it agreed to follow some nonsense on a hidden
password-protected site, then that is up to him/her/it. They could
agree to believe that pigs can fly, if they want. All I know is that I
never agree to crap on a hidden password-protected web site. What Carey
claims is totally meaningless to me, and any rational person that has
actually read and understood the EULA and the SBL.

Anyone here that spends any length of time here eventually sees that
Carey is full of it. I'd be willing to bet that most of his fellow MVPs
are embarrassed by him. I just wish they'd be more vocal about
admonishing him, especially over this issue, as I'm pretty positive that
most MVPs don't agree with this motherboard nonsense he continually
spews.

You've read the EULA, and have seen no mention of the motherboard at
all. Go read the SBL,
http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/P...SB_License.pdf,
and you'll see that the only mention of the motherboard is that it is
only ONE of FIVE components that make up a "fully assembled computer
system," and that's it.

No one needs to believe me. All they need to do is read for themselves,
and then come to their own determination. It really is that simple.

--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."

My pc mother board has died - Install xp oem
 

snip

JD - Microsoft (Expert):

Q: I hate to reiterate the meeting, but you said if you upgrade a mobo in any pc you are required to purchase a new os correct?

A: Yes, the OEM OS is tied to the motherboard. So, if the motherboard fails while under warranty the license remains intact.
However, if you are simply upgrading for feature or performance enhancements, you would need a new OS license.

Roger Goh [msft] (Expert):

Q: I hate to reiterate the meeting, but you said if you upgrade a mobo in any pc you are required to purchase a new os correct?

A: Yes, if you UPGRADE the mobo, you need to get a new OS because the OS is tied to the mobo.

Ref: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/com...5_0222_sb.mspx

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows - Shell/User
Microsoft Community Newsgroups
news://msnews.microsoft.com/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------*----------------

"Rhonda Lea Kirk" wrote:

| Rhonda Lea Kirk wrote:
|
| If I were the original poster, I would just write to (not call)
| Microsoft, and ask for a determination, because this thread is
| totally out of control.
|
| snip
|
| It is quite simple. Read the EULA and the SBL and make a
| determination for yourself.
|
| I agree. But I'm not the original poster, who *didn't* read the EULA
| (probably can't since her computer is down) and who is now getting a
| very long thread full of "expert" answers, not all of which agree.
|
| Look, I didn't realize that CRaven person is not an employee of
| Microsoft--s/he certainly went out of his/her way to look "official"
| with all the titles below his/her name--so why would any other casual
| user have that knowledge? If I were the person asking that
| question...well, I read what you and Alias write pretty closely, Kurt,
| and for that reason, I trust your answers, but for someone who pops in
| to solve a single problem...it's a problem.
|
| Who are you (the generic you, not the "Kurt you", because you're a
| skeptic if ever there was one)going to heed? The poster with the string
| of titles or the poster who either has no sig or a sig with a a parody
| website and an apparent axe to grind?
|
| Apart from the philosophical and interpretative line of the thread,
| there is still a real live human being with a problem, and she came here
| to get it solved. She has touched off a food fight, but she still
| doesn't have a definitive determination, and if that's what she really
| wants, then the thing to do is go straight to the horse.
|
| rl

My pc mother board has died - Install xp oem
 

kurttrail wrote:

No one, not me, not Carey, and not Microsoft can make a definitive
determination about this unless this issue comes up before a judge and
then judge makes a definitive determination. Until then, the OP needs
to do is read the EULA and the SBL, and come to a determination that
is best for them.

Microsoft can make a statement about how it intended its own agreement.
If that statement is contrary to what the EULA says, it would be the a
possible cause of action.

Without first knowing how Microsoft interprets its agreement, there's no
way to get to a judge.

In my personal life, I just do what I believe to be the right thing. If
I run into resistance, I start with a phone call or email, and I work my
way up to certified mail. I've never had the desire to sue anyone,
because most problems can be resolved without litigation if everyone
involved is reasonable.

snipped

Anyone here that spends any length of time here eventually sees that
Carey is full of it. I'd be willing to bet that most of his fellow
MVPs are embarrassed by him. I just wish they'd be more vocal about
admonishing him, especially over this issue, as I'm pretty positive
that most MVPs don't agree with this motherboard nonsense he
continually spews.

I'm not prepared to make a judgment yet about Carey, but I was very
unhappy with the hostile, sarcastic tone and lack of content in his
reply to my reply to CRaven.

I do know that I'm looking at a lot of sites that discuss this issue,
and he is not the only person who misunderstands the EULA. It appears to
me that his understanding does not derive from the EULA itself, but from
interpretations he has read elsewhere.

You've read the EULA, and have seen no mention of the motherboard at
all. Go read the SBL,
http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/P...SB_License.pdf,
and you'll see that the only mention of the motherboard is that it is
only ONE of FIVE components that make up a "fully assembled computer
system," and that's it.

Oh, I read it. I think there's a big misunderstanding about the meaning
of the legalese.

I ran into a problem awhile ago with a client who died unexpectedly. It
was a large estate and there was potential for litigation. I was asked
to prepare a certification, as well as a file memo, and in it, I
mentioned how the client (who I spoke with often) would sometimes bemoan
her "incompetence." In context, she meant "I don't have a good
education, and sometimes I'm overwhelmed by all I have to manage." But
the word "incompetent" has a very specific legal meaning, and what she
meant is not how a lawyer or judge would interpret the word.

In the end, I revised the file memo, because it just had too much
problem-creating potential. Lawyers and judges do not speak standard
English, and if you try to interpret a term of art as the dictionary
defines it, you're hosed. I'm pretty sure Carey has done something
similar here.

No one needs to believe me. All they need to do is read for
themselves, and then come to their own determination. It really is
that simple.

I did both. I do believe you, but I also like to read. :)

rl
--
I've been through some awful worries, and
some of them actually happened. Mark Twain

My pc mother board has died - Install xp oem
 

Carey Frisch [MVP] wrote:
snip

JD - Microsoft (Expert):

Q: I hate to reiterate the meeting, but you said if you upgrade a mobo in any pc you are required to purchase a new os correct?

A: Yes, the OEM OS is tied to the motherboard. So, if the motherboard fails while under warranty the license remains intact.
However, if you are simply upgrading for feature or performance enhancements, you would need a new OS license.

Roger Goh [msft] (Expert):

Q: I hate to reiterate the meeting, but you said if you upgrade a mobo in any pc you are required to purchase a new os correct?

A: Yes, if you UPGRADE the mobo, you need to get a new OS because the OS is tied to the mobo.

Ref: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/com...5_0222_sb.mspx


And, of course, they are referring to branded OEMs, something that Carey
doesn't seem able to distinguish from generic OEMs. I just upgraded a
motherboard on one of my computers and clean installed its generic OEM
Home and it activated on line and passed WGA.

The EULA I agreed to -- and the ONLY one I agreed to -- says nothing
about upgrading motherboards necessitating a new OS, regardless of any
conversations Systems Builders may have had with Microsoft.

You're reaching for straws, Carey. The question is when will you be man
enough to admit it so we can all move on.

Alias

My pc mother board has died - Install xp oem
 

Carey Frisch [MVP] wrote:
snip

JD - Microsoft (Expert):

Q: I hate to reiterate the meeting, but you said if you upgrade a mobo in any pc you are required to purchase a new os correct?

A: Yes, the OEM OS is tied to the motherboard. So, if the motherboard fails while under warranty the license remains intact.
However, if you are simply upgrading for feature or performance enhancements, you would need a new OS license.

Roger Goh [msft] (Expert):

Q: I hate to reiterate the meeting, but you said if you upgrade a mobo in any pc you are required to purchase a new os correct?

A: Yes, if you UPGRADE the mobo, you need to get a new OS because the OS is tied to the mobo.

Ref: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/com...5_0222_sb.mspx


The "experts" being quoted are totally irrelevant since this
particular definition of "motherboard" and its link to the
Windows operating systems needs to be stated by an Officer of
Microsoft in public. Microsoft has never done this nor has it
published this fact for the open record anywhere. Where is the
evidence that is being asked throughout this thread? If it is
under a password-protected page to a select few who are also
bound by a NDA, then it is binding only to those who have an
association to Microsoft through this manner.